politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn goes to war with the PLP yet again
Comments
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I can't think of a better way to wind people up and get them supporting the hardest Brexit possible though. Good ol' BBCFrancisUrquhart said:
But sources told the BBC that it is extremely unlikely any would then be returned to Calais as they would be able to claim asylum in the UK regardless of the age.RobD said:
Yep, but I am guessing nothing will happen because of it.SimonStClare said:The charity Citizens UK, who drew up the list of venerable ‘children’ are a laughing stock.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37687916
The message of the system is sending out is clear, lie through your teeth and you will be rewarded...It should be that those in most need, that play by the rules, are the ones that are prioritized.0 -
diddums.
Irish patriots = noble freedom fighters
British patriots = racist scum0 -
I wouldn't count 12% who don't express an opinion as being favourable or otherwise really.TheScreamingEagles said:
The 20% of Tory voters who don't think Theresa May who didn't say the mandateless Mrs May isn't the dog's dangly bits.chestnut said:
What 20%?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm in the 20% and these numbers are going to get worse for Theresa May.
https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/788774885497663488
Only 8% are dissatisfied.0 -
Not so. The neo-liberal consensus is collapsing. It has been centre stage - austerity, unregulated free markets, private good/ public bad. But this is in retreat.Black_Rook said:
....The Lib Dems are not suitable. Their activist base wants them to be centre left, at a time when that position in politics - not just in the UK, but in much of the rest of Europe - is collapsing.IanB2 said:
You are probably right. Nevertheless if Brexit goes sour there will be a lot of Remain voters (and probably some moderate leave voters as well) reconsidering whether the Tories deserve their support next time.Black_Rook said:
I'm not surprised at all. I would imagine that the EU question was never a prime motivator for most of the electorate in terms of which party they chose to back, and almost everyone for whom it was critical backed the Leave side.SimonStClare said:
In light of the Brexit referendum result, must admit to being a tad surprised the LibDems have not benefited more in VI polls from being the most pro EU party. - If it hasn’t materialised in the first 3 months, I doubt it will happen at all.DavidL said:Hmm...I have commented a few times that the collapse of UKIP gave May a chance to really clean up but I must expect that I did not expect it to happen so quickly.
Like others I remain bemused that in such a bipolar world there still seems to be so little room for the Lib Dems.
The idea that there is a large poll of Continuity Remain voters out there to be mopped up by the most overtly Europhile party is almost certainly a myth.
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@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.0
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CarefulPaul_Bedfordshire said:
diddums.Scott_P said:
Are the Irish Government going to get Mr Adams and his friends to undecommission the weapons put out of use if we ignore them?
If they are not careful they will end up with a UK version of Mr Trumps Wall snaking across Ulster. That will do wonders for the Republics economy.0 -
Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?0 -
Let's hope the other 70% stay at home to make jam.Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
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The Northern Irish economy is a lot more dependent on the Republic, than the other way around.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
diddums.Scott_P said:
Are the Irish Government going to get Mr Adams and his friends to undecommission the weapons put out of use if we ignore them?
If they are not careful they will end up with a UK version of Mr Trumps Wall snaking across Ulster. That will do wonders for the Republics economy.0 -
rcs1000 said:
Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...0 -
Correction - ENGLISH patriots = racist scum. You can be anyone, from anywhere, be proud of it, all around the world, but you cannot be English (or possibly an Israeli) and a nationalist without being a foaming lunatic. Actually, let's narrow it down further - a white, English male.taffys said:diddums.
Irish patriots = noble freedom fighters
British patriots = racist scum
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And here we are helping vulnerable bachelors instead....Scott_P said:Capture the Zeitgeist, Lesson 1...
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/7887962082696519680 -
The Russians did land several landers on Venus. They only lasted a short period, but given Venus's evil atmosphere, that was still good going.brokenwheel said:
One lasted for about 15 seconds before it went kaput.RobD said:
Surprised the Russians didn't have a successful mission.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
Sadly, it looks as though the US is still the only country/group that has been able to successfully land and communicate from Mars.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37707776
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera
AIUI, Mars is the hardest rocky body in the solar system to perform a landing on. When a body is airless, you can use retrorockets. When it has a thick atmosphere like Earth or Venus, you can aerobrake and use parachutes. Mars' atmosphere is too thin to easily aerobrake, and parachutes have limited potential. Yet the atmosphere is thick enough to cause retrorockets problems. That's why Curiosity was lowered to the surface using a weird 'Sky Crane'.0 -
Correct up to a point. Small state rhetoric and unfettered capitalism is out of fashion, but where are people looking for solutions? Moderate opinion is moving towards May's populist conservatism, whereas more radical voters prefer Jeremy Corbyn. There is little appetite evident for a resurgence of the centre-left, and most voters remain invested in capitalism.Barnesian said:
Not so. The neo-liberal consensus is collapsing. It has been centre stage - austerity, unregulated free markets, private good/ public bad. But this is in retreat.Black_Rook said:
....The Lib Dems are not suitable. Their activist base wants them to be centre left, at a time when that position in politics - not just in the UK, but in much of the rest of Europe - is collapsing.IanB2 said:
You are probably right. Nevertheless if Brexit goes sour there will be a lot of Remain voters (and probably some moderate leave voters as well) reconsidering whether the Tories deserve their support next time.Black_Rook said:
I'm not surprised at all. I would imagine that the EU question was never a prime motivator for most of the electorate in terms of which party they chose to back, and almost everyone for whom it was critical backed the Leave side.SimonStClare said:
In light of the Brexit referendum result, must admit to being a tad surprised the LibDems have not benefited more in VI polls from being the most pro EU party. - If it hasn’t materialised in the first 3 months, I doubt it will happen at all.DavidL said:Hmm...I have commented a few times that the collapse of UKIP gave May a chance to really clean up but I must expect that I did not expect it to happen so quickly.
Like others I remain bemused that in such a bipolar world there still seems to be so little room for the Lib Dems.
The idea that there is a large poll of Continuity Remain voters out there to be mopped up by the most overtly Europhile party is almost certainly a myth.0 -
Good old Bouncy MORI.RobD said:
Those changes!Scott_P said:@OliverCooper: New Ipsos-MORI poll shows the Conservatives destroying Labour and UKIP:
Conservatives 47% (+7)
Labour 29% (-5)
LDs 7% (+1)
UKIP 6% (-3)0 -
And here we are helping vulnerable bachelors instead....
you can tell by the smirks on the faces of those guys, they cannot believe how stupid we are.0 -
We should spend some of our vast overseas aid budget on safety razors and re-chargeable shavers for the inconvenienced men roughing it in Calais. Alternatively have the Scouts adult Network members (aged 18–25) setup a recruitment unit in Calais.RobD said:
And here we are helping vulnerable bachelors instead....Scott_P said:Capture the Zeitgeist, Lesson 1...
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/788796208269651968
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Tough shit.Scott_P said:0 -
One interesting feature of this bye-election is the number of people saying 'I'm voting for Liz.' No-one says 'I'm voting for Robert.' It reminds me of Greenwich - 'I'm voting for Rosie.'Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...0 -
The Centre Left position is a mixed economy with the benefits of capitalism in encouraging innovation and efficiency (but with its excesses restrained by competition laws etc,) and public ownership of monopoly infrastructure which are of strategic importance and where competition cannot operate effectively.Black_Rook said:
Correct up to a point. Small state rhetoric and unfettered capitalism is out of fashion, but where are people looking for solutions? Moderate opinion is moving towards May's populist conservatism, whereas more radical voters prefer Jeremy Corbyn. There is little appetite evident for a resurgence of the centre-left, and most voters remain invested in capitalism.Barnesian said:
Not so. The neo-liberal consensus is collapsing. It has been centre stage - austerity, unregulated free markets, private good/ public bad. But this is in retreat.Black_Rook said:
....The Lib Dems are not suitable. Their activist base wants them to be centre left, at a time when that position in politics - not just in the UK, but in much of the rest of Europe - is collapsing.IanB2 said:
You are probably right. Nevertheless if Brexit goes sour there will be a lot of Remain voters (and probably some moderate leave voters as well) reconsidering whether the Tories deserve their support next time.Black_Rook said:
I'm not surprised at all. I would imagine that the EU question was never a prime motivator for most of the electorate in terms of which party they chose to back, and almost everyone for whom it was critical backed the Leave side.SimonStClare said:
In light of the Brexit referendum result, must admit to being a tad surprised the LibDems have not benefited more in VI polls from being the most pro EU party. - If it hasn’t materialised in the first 3 months, I doubt it will happen at all.DavidL said:Hmm...I have commented a few times that the collapse of UKIP gave May a chance to really clean up but I must expect that I did not expect it to happen so quickly.
Like others I remain bemused that in such a bipolar world there still seems to be so little room for the Lib Dems.
The idea that there is a large poll of Continuity Remain voters out there to be mopped up by the most overtly Europhile party is almost certainly a myth.
A majority of the UK public are in favour of public ownership of the railways (and possibly of other utilities) and are against the excesses of capitalism (obscene rewards to top management).
That is a centre left position that I think is quite attractive. I wouldn't say that a centre left position is "collapsing".0 -
Clearly many Tories still live in craven fear of the LD by-election machine of the 1990s.Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...
In my view, those days are gone and the world has moved on.0 -
So the Lib Dems have failed miserably.Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
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I think that's a certainty!rcs1000 said:
Perhaps you could donate winnings to a future candidate for leadership who people don't confuse with the defence secretary....
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Perhaps if English patriots didn't so often conflate their country with the United Kingdom, this anomaly would be seen for what it is and we'd all be much more comfortable with our national identities.Jason said:
Correction - ENGLISH patriots = racist scum. You can be anyone, from anywhere, be proud of it, all around the world, but you cannot be English (or possibly an Israeli) and a nationalist without being a foaming lunatic. Actually, let's narrow it down further - a white, English male.taffys said:diddums.
Irish patriots = noble freedom fighters
British patriots = racist scum0 -
Indeed. Those were days when Tories were unpopular....Casino_Royale said:
Clearly many Tories still live in craven fear of the LD by-election machine of the 1990s.Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...
In my view, those days are gone and the world has moved on.
47%!!!!!0 -
They'll have achieved their highest ever swing from the Conservatives, approximately 25%, beating the staggering ones achieved in places like Ribble Valley in very different circumstances.MP_SE said:
So the Lib Dems have failed miserably.Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
Of course, it won't have been enough. But that's somewhat inevitable in the second safest seat in the country, and when you're starting from 6%.0 -
It *is* rocket science after all.Morris_Dancer said:Still, the ESA had huge success with the comet, and this sort of thing isn't easy.
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It's a bit difficult to fathom for the reader not versed in the jargon of political dirty tricks.Alistair said:
If only O'Keefe hadn't paid put a six figure sum in compensation over his fraudulent 'stings' in the past I might actually care.williamglenn said:
Even CNN is running the story.PlatoSaid said:I see Watergate 1000x is happening in real-time for all to see - and PBers still aren't much interested.
I give up. Even if you don't care or despise both candidates, this is incredible stuff being dumped by the skipload. It'd fill several years of Sunday papers here - and a news event I never thought I'd witness.
Ho hum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGPAmXqvHU0
Can anyone explain what exactly "bird-dogging" is? One definition I found was that it meant incognito Democrat supporters attending Trump rallies and "starting a fight by giving anti-Trump speeches" - the assumption apparently being that those attending Trump rallies will naturally respond with violence to verbal criticism of their candidate.
It sounds rather like what I would call "heckling".Is that viewed as a dirty trick in the USA?
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UKIP Leadership candidate shocker.
Journalist: A lot of people talk about racism within UKIP – how do you deal with these criticisms levelled at your party?
Candidate David Kurton: A good question! I usually answer with humour. I am blessed with melanin, so if anyone levels that criticism I say ‘UKIP isn’t racist; I love white people!’
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/08/28/interview-ukip-chemist-david-kurten-makes-his-case-for-being-the-partys-choice-for-london-mayor/0 -
Yeah, let's tear up treaties we don't like any more. That's sure to have countries queuing up to make free trade treaties with us.Casino_Royale said:
Tough shit.Scott_P said:0 -
Perhaps you could simply buy a set of these: https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/products/trump-pence-maga-button-set-of-4Ishmael_X said:
And then wear them (all of them) for a week
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Or one of these?rcs1000 said:
Perhaps you could simply buy a set of these: https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/products/trump-pence-maga-button-set-of-4Ishmael_X said:
And then wear them (all of them) for a week
https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/products/i-am-a-deplorable-stars-tee-black?variant=292921439420 -
I suspect the Conservatives would lose a Richmond Park by-election. But it will be interesting to see how well they do tomorrow.Casino_Royale said:
Clearly many Tories still live in craven fear of the LD by-election machine of the 1990s.Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...
In my view, those days are gone and the world has moved on.0 -
YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
Careful?Barnesian said:
CarefulPaul_Bedfordshire said:
diddums.Scott_P said:
Are the Irish Government going to get Mr Adams and his friends to undecommission the weapons put out of use if we ignore them?
If they are not careful they will end up with a UK version of Mr Trumps Wall snaking across Ulster. That will do wonders for the Republics economy.
Because they havent gone away you know?
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What time does thercs1000 said:
That's a pretty encouraging Trump number. And it could all change this evening...AndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%
(Not that I'll be watching. Damn it, why couldn't they have done the debate and the Witney by-election on the same day?)Shit Show,Jerry Springer Special, Debate start?0 -
I think anything under 30% and they'd be disappointed. It's been a phenomenal campaign they've been running there with volunteers from all over the country going down. I'm in Dorset and I personally know a dozen or more who have been from surrounding area. Social media is proving to be an enormous help - with virtual phone banks they can do thousands of phone calls a day.rcs1000 said:
I suspect the Conservatives would lose a Richmond Park by-election. But it will be interesting to see how well they do tomorrow.Casino_Royale said:
Clearly many Tories still live in craven fear of the LD by-election machine of the 1990s.Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...
In my view, those days are gone and the world has moved on.0 -
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
2am UKFrancisUrquhart said:
What time does thercs1000 said:
That's a pretty encouraging Trump number. And it could all change this evening...AndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%
(Not that I'll be watching. Damn it, why couldn't they have done the debate and the Witney by-election on the same day?)Shit Show,Jerry Springer Special, Debate start?0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
Agreed.rcs1000 said:
That's a pretty encouraging Trump number. And it could all change this evening..AndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%
Has there ever been any research on which types of voters watch the debates and whether the ones who watch the first and then tune out are likely to have already made up their minds at that point?0 -
Take that up with the Witney Libdem rampers.rcs1000 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
Thanks....Better pop out and get a jumbo bag of popcorn...rcs1000 said:
2am UKFrancisUrquhart said:
What time does thercs1000 said:
That's a pretty encouraging Trump number. And it could all change this evening...AndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%
(Not that I'll be watching. Damn it, why couldn't they have done the debate and the Witney by-election on the same day?)Shit Show,Jerry Springer Special, Debate start?0 -
It seems more and more unlikely that a 2020 general election will be May vs Corbyn with polls like today's. Either it'll be those two in 2017 or 2018 or May against someone else in 2020.0
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I think they are excessively optimistic, nothing more. Hardly a crime.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Take that up with the Witney Libdem rampers.rcs1000 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
Other nation states don't have a veto on democratic decisions the UK takes related to its domestic law.rpjs said:
Yeah, let's tear up treaties we don't like any more. That's sure to have countries queuing up to make free trade treaties with us.Casino_Royale said:
Tough shit.Scott_P said:0 -
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Corbyn's position is stronger than ever, and his performances are becoming more assured. He's not going anywhere.AndyJS said:It seems more and more unlikely that a 2020 general election will be May vs Corbyn with polls like today's. Either it'll be those two in 2017 or 2018 or May against someone else in 2020.
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FWIW I think the Tories are in the 40-43% box, and Mori overcooks the big two, but encouraging nonetheless.Mortimer said:
Indeed. Those were days when Tories were unpopular....Casino_Royale said:
Clearly many Tories still live in craven fear of the LD by-election machine of the 1990s.Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...
In my view, those days are gone and the world has moved on.
47%!!!!!0 -
William Hills were offering 11/2 a few days ago now they are offering 4-1 (ie 8-2).williamglenn said:
Agreed.rcs1000 said:
That's a pretty encouraging Trump number. And it could all change this evening..AndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%
Has there ever been any research on which types of voters watch the debates and whether the ones who watch the first and then tune out are likely to have already made up their minds at that point?
In Witney however they are offering 12-1 on the Libdems winning.
So basically Wm Hill think it three times more likely that Trump will win than the Libdems will win Witney.0 -
The LDs are right to ramp. If you don't believe you can do the impossible, it'll never happen. Being realistic would probably depress their activists and they'd definitely have a disappointing result.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Take that up with the Witney Libdem rampers.rcs1000 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
No, but when at the same time much the same people lampoon anyone suggesting Trump might win it does get rather irritating.rcs1000 said:
I think they are excessively optimistic, nothing more. Hardly a crime.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Take that up with the Witney Libdem rampers.rcs1000 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
I think Richmond is the sort of place that is only Tory these days because its wealthy residents don't want to pay too much tax, but is otherwise far closer to Brighton in values than Buckinghamshire.rcs1000 said:
I suspect the Conservatives would lose a Richmond Park by-election. But it will be interesting to see how well they do tomorrow.Casino_Royale said:
Clearly many Tories still live in craven fear of the LD by-election machine of the 1990s.Mortimer said:rcs1000 said:Now is the big question.
To whom should Ismael_X send my Witney winnings to?
Can anyone say 'expectation management'?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Tory source concerned the LibDems could take up to 30 per cent of the vote in Witney tomorrow.
This reminds me an awful lot of Oldham...
In my view, those days are gone and the world has moved on.0 -
NEW THREAD
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Thats not what people say to Plato when she ramps Trump...AndyJS said:
The LDs are right to ramp. If you don't believe you can do the impossible, it'll never happen. Being realistic would probably depress their activists and they'd definitely have a disappointing result.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Take that up with the Witney Libdem rampers.rcs1000 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Yet Con 47 Lib 7 means a libdem shoo-in in WitneyAndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%0 -
Wow. Very real geopolitical concerns in an area of the UK and its neighbour where within living memory there was murder and death on a grand scale are now dismissed by the Brexiters in such, frankly, an unpatriotic manner.Casino_Royale said:
Tough shit.Scott_P said:
Beggars belief.0 -
Not exactly that, but an article on 538 has some figures on the response of the polls to the third debate in previous elections:williamglenn said:
Agreed.rcs1000 said:
That's a pretty encouraging Trump number. And it could all change this evening..AndyJS said:YouGov/Economist:
Clinton 47%
Trump 43%
Has there ever been any research on which types of voters watch the debates and whether the ones who watch the first and then tune out are likely to have already made up their minds at that point?
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-needs-to-win-tonights-debate-but-that-would-only-be-step-one/0 -
Off-topic:
A interesting, but quite sad, story of a plane crash whose black box may have only just been discovered after thirty years - but no-one wants to decode it.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2126426/what-happened-eastern-airlines-flight-9800 -
Fuck off, Topping. Sick of your childish goading and digging.TOPPING said:
Wow. Very real geopolitical concerns in an area of the UK and its neighbour where within living memory there was murder and death on a grand scale are now dismissed by the Brexiters in such, frankly, an unpatriotic manner.Casino_Royale said:
Tough shit.Scott_P said:
Beggars belief.
Grow up.0 -
Not even funny. Discussing the very real issue of the situation in Northern Ireland, your comment was: tough shit.Casino_Royale said:
Fuck off, Topping. Sick of your childish goading and digging.TOPPING said:
Wow. Very real geopolitical concerns in an area of the UK and its neighbour where within living memory there was murder and death on a grand scale are now dismissed by the Brexiters in such, frankly, an unpatriotic manner.Casino_Royale said:
Tough shit.Scott_P said:
Beggars belief.
Grow up.
Despicable ignorant coward. Fuck off yourself.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzATOPPING said:
Not even funny. Discussing the very real issue of the situation in Northern Ireland, your comment was: tough shit.Casino_Royale said:
Fuck off, Topping. Sick of your childish goading and digging.TOPPING said:
Wow. Very real geopolitical concerns in an area of the UK and its neighbour where within living memory there was murder and death on a grand scale are now dismissed by the Brexiters in such, frankly, an unpatriotic manner.Casino_Royale said:
Tough shit.Scott_P said:
Beggars belief.
Grow up.
Despicable ignorant coward. Fuck off yourself.0 -
Do you think that deals the EU do with third parties in future will take into considerations the UK's wants and needs?FF43 said:
Repost this. Staying in the Customs Union should be a no-brainer if we leave the Single MarketRichard_Nabavi said:
My personal view is that the championing of 'free trade deals' was a post-hoc rationalisation by the Leavers. They recognised that the economic arguments were massively on the Remain side, and so convinced themselves that there was some vaguely-defined pot of trade-gold which we could magically access by free trade deals. The fact that there is no evidence of this, and a lot of evidence to the contrary (see, for example the point @rcs1000 has made here that there are very, very few significant trade deals between the G20 states other than the big blocs) was dismissed with hand-waving*.
Now that the referendum has been won by the Leavers, they don't actually need that pretence any more, and of course the government has to deal with reality. The reality is that business is very worried; in particular, our car industry is simply not viable without tariff-free and largely hassle-free trade in its cross-border intra-EU supply chain.
I don't know how this will play out, but I wouldn't rule out the Customs Union idea.
*see upthread for definition!
ADVANTAGES of REMAINING in CUSTOM UNION
1. Tariff -free transit of industrial goods with the EU/EEA (but not services or agriculture)
2. Ready-made set of free trade agreements with third party countries already negotiated by the EU. DIY will result in a long gap while the new deals are negotiated. The EU has more market clout than the UK to get better deals
3. Much lower burden and cost of red tape. Exporters with supply chains don’t require origination certification for the components nor for finished products
4. UK negotiators can concentrate on the key EU and WTO arrangements. They are spread too thin to take on third country negotiations as well.
5. Early commitment to a Customs Union would remove uncertainty for investment in UK industrials (think Nissan in Sunderland).
6. BONUS advantage! Possible redundancy for Liam Fox. The UK would still be able to negotiate Free Trade Agreements with third countries, but is presumably constrained to the import tariffs already set by the EU.
ADVANTAGES of LEAVING the CUSTOM UNION
1. The UK can unilaterally reduce its import duties allowing them to compete better with EU countries on price for finished products to third countries. A partial compensation for the barriers to EU trade.
2. The UK may be more flexible in negotiating deals with third countries and so may have a higher chance of success than the EU for deals still to be signed.
A better structure would be something like the Turkish/EU relationship0 -
Southam Observer....bloody hell comrade, you write some top notch stuff.0
