politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn goes to war with the PLP yet again
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn goes to war with the PLP yet again
Comments
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Glorious first! Thanks, TSE
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Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.0
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Having Kate Hoey scrutinise Brexit is like having IDS scrutinise the case for the Iraq war.0
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By that logic, we cannot have a Remainer as Prime Minister, ooh an excuse to ditch Theresa May, I like your thinking.RobD said:Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.
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Yes, she was oh so in favour of Remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
By that logic, we cannot have a Remainer as Prime Minister, ooh an excuse to ditch Theresa May, I like your thinking.RobD said:Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.
Anyway, she is now a convert to the cause, unlike Benn. 0 -
The lack lf scrutiny that Hoey will bring to the role is worrisome. Fox and Davis need to be kept on a tight leash, I'm not sure that Hoey will manage it. The PM certainly isn't.0
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I agree on your first two sentences. Too early to say on the last.MaxPB said:The lack lf scrutiny that Hoey will bring to the role is worrisome. Fox and Davis need to be kept on a tight leash, I'm not sure that Hoey will manage it. The PM certainly isn't.
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Presumably he is adored by the 62% if the selectorate that backed him to stay the party leader despite already having solid evidence of his euro-ambivalence and his tin ear.
I would suspect an euro-enthusiast like Benn would use the position to grind progress on BrExit related matters to as much of a halt as he can, which might not be the smartest thing to do electorally, and might be viewed with severe disfavour in Labour's northern seats.
Hoey might be slightly taking the p*ss, but how many euro-neutrals does Labour have that also have enough interest and knowledge on the EU to make a useful contribution to the select committee ?0 -
Dunno, one way for Labour to play this would be to affect to expect the government to keep all the Leave campaign's promises and express shock and betrayal in the event that it fails. If that's the strategy it might help to have somebody who can pretend to have believed in the promises in the first place.0
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May I respectfully refer PBers to yesterday morning's thread?
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/0 -
Pretty sure he voted Leave....0
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Seems unlikely Hoey will get it though?
Would have thought Remainer wing of Tories plus moderate Labour gets a majority in the House?
Superb trolling from Corbyn though. He reminds me of Uriah Heep, with the PLP as Agnes Wickfield.
Edit: Top thread, SO. This is what makes PB great.0 -
Benn may well still win. He'll get the vast majority of PLP support, it's then down to what other parties do. The SNP will be interesting: Salmond nominated Hoey (presumably as he is after as hard a Brexit as possible); John Nicholson nominated Benn. The various Ulster unionist parties will all back Hoey, so the Tories will decide.MaxPB said:The lack lf scrutiny that Hoey will bring to the role is worrisome. Fox and Davis need to be kept on a tight leash, I'm not sure that Hoey will manage it. The PM certainly isn't.
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National - PRRI/The Atlantic - Sample 692 - 12-17 Oct
Clinton 51 .. Trump 36
http://www.prri.org/research/prri-brookings-october-19-2016-presidential-election-horserace-clinton-trump/0 -
If only Dave backed LEAVE after the renegotiation, he would still be our PM AND an MP....TheScreamingEagles said:
By that logic, we cannot have a Remainer as Prime Minister, ooh an excuse to ditch Theresa May, I like your thinking.RobD said:Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.
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A very well-argued article by Joff. I think there might be a taint of wishful thinking in the last paragraph, however.
The one underlying assumption I'd challenge is the assumption that Corbyn and his henchmen want to build bridges with the bulk of Labour MPs. It doesn't really look that way to me; the various things he has done since his re-selection look more like deliberate provocation.0 -
I think I detect a bit of a pattern!JackW said:National - PRRI/The Atlantic - Sample 692 - 12-17 Oct
Clinton 51 .. Trump 36
http://www.prri.org/research/prri-brookings-october-19-2016-presidential-election-horserace-clinton-trump/0 -
National - SUSA - Sample 845 - 11-14 Oct
Clinton 46 .. Trump 36
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=43152229-1c55-4feb-8b4d-50aeb48c36b10 -
A pretty good piece from Joff.
It seems to me that Corbyn aspires to unity in the same way that Stalin did, only with the capacity of Boris Yeltsin to deliver it.0 -
Yep, that's what I would do, were I insane enough to be a Labour politician.edmundintokyo said:Dunno, one way for Labour to play this would be to affect to expect the government to keep all the Leave campaign's promises and express shock and betrayal in the event that it fails. If that's the strategy it might help to have somebody who can pretend to have believed in the promises in the first place.
Seriously considering building a (trading!) position on Labour being next government.0 -
oooooohhhhh. Trump connections with Russa proven
https://twitter.com/funder/status/7880404114073436180 -
FPT
Wow, what do you say to this? I seriously hope you're joking and don't think if we export food that means we will run out and starve?MarkSenior said:
If we export our beef to Japan what do we eat instead - Cake ?Philip_Thompson said:
Sounds like a good opportunity then. Get it unbanned (like it recently was in the USA) and our exports can rise from zero to more.Scott_P said:0 -
Not much gets past you Nabbers ....Richard_Nabavi said:
I think I detect a bit of a pattern!JackW said:National - PRRI/The Atlantic - Sample 692 - 12-17 Oct
Clinton 51 .. Trump 36
http://www.prri.org/research/prri-brookings-october-19-2016-presidential-election-horserace-clinton-trump/ 0 -
I like Kate Hoey and think her the better choice over Benn to oversee the commission. One can argue about the lack of scrutiny Hoey may bring to the table, but equally criticise Benn for his possible lack of need to see a desirable outcome. – Too early to tell of course but hey.0
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I'm not sure that having someone in favour of Brexit in this position could possibly be worse than having someone whose aim is to prevent Brexit with endless delays. Hoey may not be a great candidate for the role, but it's not so clear that she's the worst on offer.
Could Labour (all factions) not find someone reasonably pragmatic for the role, willing to work towards a sensible Brexit process while holding the government to account?0 -
Most Labour MPs want a Labour government. Most constituency activists don't.Richard_Nabavi said:A very well-argued article by Joff. I think there might be a taint of wishful thinking in the last paragraph, however.
The one underlying assumption I'd challenge is the assumption that Corbyn and his henchmen want to build bridges with the bulk of Labour MPs. It doesn't really look that way to me; the various things he has done since his re-selection look more like deliberate provocation.
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His voters know he is a business man? So what?619 said:oooooohhhhh. Trump connections with Russa proven
https://twitter.com/funder/status/7880404114073436180 -
Cheers. Wishful thinking, perhaps. But I do sense a deadline for Jezza. It's kind of like Kremlinology to read between lines etc, but it's there and it's the summer of 2018.Richard_Nabavi said:A very well-argued article by Joff. I think there might be a taint of wishful thinking in the last paragraph, however.
The one underlying assumption I'd challenge is the assumption that Corbyn and his henchmen want to build bridges with the bulk of Labour MPs. It doesn't really look that way to me; the various things he has done since his re-selection look more like deliberate provocation.
My assumption is that Corbyn does not want to build bridges, just that he says he does. His problem is that his actions run so obviously counter to his words. And people will increasingly notice that.
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Such undeniable proof619 said:oooooohhhhh. Trump connections with Russa proven
https://twitter.com/funder/status/788040411407343618
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No, as Joff rightly says, he's adored by quite a large proportion of that 62%. The rest backed him either conditionally on his merits or tactically because they felt that Owen Smith wasn't the right person to replace him with. It's far from clear that Corbyn has more than half the party solidly behind him. That said, the selectorate will now have moved even further to the left since the summer, given that the sub-6-month members will be qualified were there to be another election.Indigo said:Presumably he is adored by the 62% if the selectorate that backed him to stay the party leader despite already having solid evidence of his euro-ambivalence and his tin ear.
[snip]0 -
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Who knows with the collapsing pound . We cannot all afford to eat Swiss and Italian cheese or pineapples from Kenya .Philip_Thompson said:FPT
Wow, what do you say to this? I seriously hope you're joking and don't think if we export food that means we will run out and starve?MarkSenior said:
If we export our beef to Japan what do we eat instead - Cake ?Philip_Thompson said:
Sounds like a good opportunity then. Get it unbanned (like it recently was in the USA) and our exports can rise from zero to more.Scott_P said:0 -
It is almost as if Jezza wants Hilary to mount a leadership challenge next summer...0
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Silly decision. Hoey is a crank and a fringe figure with little claim to be taken seriously. With the Brexit hard-Right bestriding the Tory Party and drunk on victory, we need more scepticism about Brexit not less. Sensible Leavers should concur: if we get a disastrous Brexit bulldozed through because of complacency and hubris then their reputations will take a pounding. We must not let the crackpots turn the laudable vision of sensible Leavers into a living hell.0
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Two more polls this week from Texas with Trump leads in low single figures. It's not impossible that Hillary could end up with the biggest Dem EC vote in 50 years.JackW said:National - SUSA - Sample 845 - 11-14 Oct
Clinton 46 .. Trump 36
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=43152229-1c55-4feb-8b4d-50aeb48c36b10 -
May has recanted her Remain support - vocal as it was during the campaignTheScreamingEagles said:
By that logic, we cannot have a Remainer as Prime Minister, ooh an excuse to ditch Theresa May, I like your thinking.RobD said:Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.
For once Corbyn is right here. Hoey is a sensible choice and a genuine expert too.0 -
Nah - they *want* a Labour government (of their stripe); they are just completely unrealistic about what it takes to get one.Innocent_Abroad said:
Most Labour MPs want a Labour government. Most constituency activists don't.Richard_Nabavi said:A very well-argued article by Joff. I think there might be a taint of wishful thinking in the last paragraph, however.
The one underlying assumption I'd challenge is the assumption that Corbyn and his henchmen want to build bridges with the bulk of Labour MPs. It doesn't really look that way to me; the various things he has done since his re-selection look more like deliberate provocation.0 -
This article misses out surely the main point of ire - that Kate Hoey is a Brexiteer.
Lol.
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Yeah, turns out being a racist sex pest isn't a vote winner...david_herdson said:
Two more polls this week from Texas with Trump leads in low single figures. It's not impossible that Hillary could end up with the biggest Dem EC vote in 50 years.JackW said:National - SUSA - Sample 845 - 11-14 Oct
Clinton 46 .. Trump 36
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=43152229-1c55-4feb-8b4d-50aeb48c36b10 -
Other criteria being that they were willing to standard against Benn when he had declared interest.Gasman said:I'm not sure that having someone in favour of Brexit in this position could possibly be worse than having someone whose aim is to prevent Brexit with endless delays. Hoey may not be a great candidate for the role, but it's not so clear that she's the worst on offer.
Could Labour (all factions) not find someone reasonably pragmatic for the role, willing to work towards a sensible Brexit process while holding the government to account?0 -
LOL!William_H said:Clive Lewis isn't supporting Hoey
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/788483899039084544
Didn't they learn anything from that strategy in the past?0 -
It was the comment above that referred to Hoey as "an expert" that made me choke on my lunch.Stark_Dawning said:Silly decision. Hoey is a crank and a fringe figure with little claim to be taken seriously. With the Brexit hard-Right bestriding the Tory Party and drunk on victory, we need more scepticism about Brexit not less. Sensible Leavers should concur: if we get a disastrous Brexit bulldozed through because of complacency and hubris then their reputations will take a pounding. We must not let the crackpots turn the laudable vision of sensible Leavers into a living hell.
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Politically, it's a silly position because (1) it splits him from the PLP again, unnecessarily, and (2) there's a reasonable chance he'll end up on the losing side, which would be a big win for his MPs against him - as well as defining Benn as one of their principal spokesmen.Philip_Thompson said:
May has recanted her Remain support - vocal as it was during the campaignTheScreamingEagles said:
By that logic, we cannot have a Remainer as Prime Minister, ooh an excuse to ditch Theresa May, I like your thinking.RobD said:Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.
For once Corbyn is right here. Hoey is a sensible choice and a genuine expert too.0 -
I'm reminded of a comment made about the Palestinian leadership. Replacing the appropriate name,
Corbyn never misses a chance to make a mistake.0 -
I'm on at I think 16/1 on Hillary Clinton winning Texas.david_herdson said:
Two more polls this week from Texas with Trump leads in low single figures. It's not impossible that Hillary could end up with the biggest Dem EC vote in 50 years.JackW said:National - SUSA - Sample 845 - 11-14 Oct
Clinton 46 .. Trump 36
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=43152229-1c55-4feb-8b4d-50aeb48c36b1
It's the hope that kills you...0 -
https://twitter.com/gerryhassan/status/743151219628183552Philip_Thompson said:Hoey is a sensible choice and a genuine expert too.
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Upside is that he shuts an opponent of his out of a major position. Hoey is generally well liked on the Tory benches - I wonder whether there will be a quiet whipping operation.david_herdson said:
Politically, it's a silly position because (1) it splits him from the PLP again, unnecessarily, and (2) there's a reasonable chance he'll end up on the losing side, which would be a big win for his MPs against him - as well as defining Benn as one of their principal spokesmen.Philip_Thompson said:
May has recanted her Remain support - vocal as it was during the campaignTheScreamingEagles said:
By that logic, we cannot have a Remainer as Prime Minister, ooh an excuse to ditch Theresa May, I like your thinking.RobD said:Surely it is a good decision. Having a Remainer as head of the Brexit committee would be a bit ridiculous.
For once Corbyn is right here. Hoey is a sensible choice and a genuine expert too.0 -
At times you read like a shameless apologist for whoever holds the title of leader of the Conservative party.Richard_Nabavi said:
I agree on your first two sentences. Too early to say on the last.MaxPB said:The lack lf scrutiny that Hoey will bring to the role is worrisome. Fox and Davis need to be kept on a tight leash, I'm not sure that Hoey will manage it. The PM certainly isn't.
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Well, they don't believe that MPs can get them socialism. A bit like the Russian Bolsheviks and the Constituent Assembly in 1917.david_herdson said:
Nah - they *want* a Labour government (of their stripe); they are just completely unrealistic about what it takes to get one.Innocent_Abroad said:
Most Labour MPs want a Labour government. Most constituency activists don't.Richard_Nabavi said:A very well-argued article by Joff. I think there might be a taint of wishful thinking in the last paragraph, however.
The one underlying assumption I'd challenge is the assumption that Corbyn and his henchmen want to build bridges with the bulk of Labour MPs. It doesn't really look that way to me; the various things he has done since his re-selection look more like deliberate provocation.
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FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
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The collapsing pound is designed to boost exports and just because we export beef does not mean we run out of beef domestically. There will still be plenty of Aberdeen Angus etc available in the UK even if some is exported, our farmers can increase production if there's more demand.MarkSenior said:
Who knows with the collapsing pound . We cannot all afford to eat Swiss and Italian cheese or pineapples from Kenya .Philip_Thompson said:FPT
Wow, what do you say to this? I seriously hope you're joking and don't think if we export food that means we will run out and starve?MarkSenior said:
If we export our beef to Japan what do we eat instead - Cake ?Philip_Thompson said:
Sounds like a good opportunity then. Get it unbanned (like it recently was in the USA) and our exports can rise from zero to more.Scott_P said:0 -
Only to idiots.williamglenn said:At times you read like a shameless apologist for whoever holds the title of leader of the Conservative party.
As it happens, I've been quite critical of our new leader. Like everyone else, I don't yet really know what her Brexit negotiating position is going to be; when we do know, I shall comment.0 -
"designed" lolPhilip_Thompson said:
The collapsing pound is designed to boost exports and just because we export beef does not mean we run out of beef domestically. There will still be plenty of Aberdeen Angus etc available in the UK even if some is exported, our farmers can increase production if there's more demand.MarkSenior said:
Who knows with the collapsing pound . We cannot all afford to eat Swiss and Italian cheese or pineapples from Kenya .Philip_Thompson said:FPT
Wow, what do you say to this? I seriously hope you're joking and don't think if we export food that means we will run out and starve?MarkSenior said:
If we export our beef to Japan what do we eat instead - Cake ?Philip_Thompson said:
Sounds like a good opportunity then. Get it unbanned (like it recently was in the USA) and our exports can rise from zero to more.Scott_P said:0 -
Not to me it wasn't – I genuinely had no idea what was meant by it.RobD said:
In the context it was used it means 'dismiss', which was blindingly obvious.Jobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
If it means dismiss, why not just write that?0 -
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!0 -
Because many words/phrases in the English language have synonyms, and it would be quite boring if we all used the same ones.Jobabob said:
Not to me it wasn't – I genuinely had no idea what was meant by it.RobD said:
In the context it was used it means 'dismiss', which was blindingly obvious.Jobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
If it means dismiss, why not just write that?
The full quote was "If the purpose is to inform better, why are people in such a hurry to handwave away views that don't conform with their own sensibilities,"
It's very hard not to read that in any other way than people dismissing views that don't conform to their own.0 -
There's actually a sizeable Wikipedia entry on it:Jobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving
Though around here it's come mean the behaviour of news outlets who ignore conspiracy theories that benefit Donald Trump.
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I think the mistake would be to assume Corbyn needs to rebuild bridges in order to get his desired result for the Labour party. – He’s beaten the concerted efforts of the PLP twice and is in a stronger position now than before. There really isn’t much left in the PLP arsenal to use against him.Cynosarges said:I'm reminded of a comment made about the Palestinian leadership. Replacing the appropriate name,
Corbyn never misses a chance to make a mistake.0 -
Breaking: New charity Shave the Children set up to help new wave of refugees.0
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Dismiss has synonyms.RobD said:
Because many words/phrases in the English language have synonyms, and it would be quite boring if we all used the same ones.Jobabob said:
Not to me it wasn't – I genuinely had no idea what was meant by it.RobD said:
In the context it was used it means 'dismiss', which was blindingly obvious.Jobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
If it means dismiss, why not just write that?
Handwaving isn't one of them.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/dismiss0 -
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!0 -
FPT
NickPalmer said:
» show previous quotes
SeanT is SeanT - MalcolmG with richer prose. I got bored about the tenth time he had a go at me and haven't really bewen bothered since.
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
On liberalism, the site is predominently Cameroonish, i.e. socially liberal and mildly conservative. The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...) as are the hard right, though plato seems to be moving to fill the gap. The most interesting posts IMO are from the people like DavidL who one can't quite predict!
Nick I think you mean the poncier Luvvie English version of my good self. I have to say I am not averse to being mentioned as any way similar to our resident novelist.0 -
0
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619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
Yes the Trumptons have appeared to adopt their own language. Unintelligible beyond a tiny group of hard rightists on internet forums.
You virtual signalling, handwaving waycist!0 -
There's a movie planned to feature the experiences of two child refugees coming to Britain.Anorak said:Breaking: New charity Shave the Children set up to help new wave of refugees.
Apparently Robert di Niro and Harrison Ford are among the actors interested in playing the leads.0 -
Ironically, given its heaviest user, the wiki article states: "It is most often applied to debate techniques that involve fallacies and misdirection".Jobabob said:Dismiss has synonyms.
Handwaving isn't one of them.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/dismiss0 -
FPT
Indigo said:
» show previous quotes
They would have to be prepared to leave with no deal, all the UK negotiators, plus all we can beg, borrow, or steal from our allies are going to be tied up talking with Barnier and Verhofstadt.
We would be leaving debt free and have much reduced needs as we would not be paying Westminster's debts. We would do very well thank you. If not we get share of all UK assets , B of E reserves etc and hey presto still doing fine.
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Richard_Nabavi said:
Only to idiots.williamglenn said:At times you read like a shameless apologist for whoever holds the title of leader of the Conservative party.
As it happens, I've been quite critical of our new leader. Like everyone else, I don't yet really know what her Brexit negotiating position is going to be; when we do know, I shall comment.
It is indeed fair to say that Richard has been critical of May, particularly over her grammar schools schtick.0 -
I think this is an excellent choice by Jeremy Corbyn.0
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''You virtual signalling, handwaving waycist! ''
you and 619 are having your own little conversation together, just the two of you, aren't you.
Bless0 -
I am sure there are many phrases which are used euphemistically which aren't listed in the dictionary.Jobabob said:
Dismiss has synonyms.RobD said:
Because many words/phrases in the English language have synonyms, and it would be quite boring if we all used the same ones.Jobabob said:
Not to me it wasn't – I genuinely had no idea what was meant by it.RobD said:
In the context it was used it means 'dismiss', which was blindingly obvious.Jobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
If it means dismiss, why not just write that?
Handwaving isn't one of them.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/dismiss0 -
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!0 -
I saw it used by Indigo based on a search of the last thread. Perhaps it was used earlier on too?619 said:
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!0 -
Hasn't Corby just handed his opponents another chance to show their Discontent?SouthamObserver said:
Benn may well still win. He'll get the vast majority of PLP support, it's then down to what other parties do. The SNP will be interesting: Salmond nominated Hoey (presumably as he is after as hard a Brexit as possible); John Nicholson nominated Benn. The various Ulster unionist parties will all back Hoey, so the Tories will decide.MaxPB said:The lack lf scrutiny that Hoey will bring to the role is worrisome. Fox and Davis need to be kept on a tight leash, I'm not sure that Hoey will manage it. The PM certainly isn't.
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http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hand-wavingJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving
insubstantial words, arguments, gestures, or actions used in an attempt to explain or persuade.
Virtue Signalling was originally coined in this article:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/04/hating-the-daily-mail-is-a-substitute-for-doing-good/
and spread a bit
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/i-invented-virtue-signalling-now-its-taking-over-the-world/0 -
Far easier to ask PB what a difficult to understand word means than look it up in a dictionary.Indigo said:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hand-wavingJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving
insubstantial words, arguments, gestures, or actions used in an attempt to explain or persuade.0 -
Isn't this just a case of "Kate disagrees with Labour so she must be a Tory!"?0
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Don't ask Theresa May though. You'd get the answer 'hand-waving means hand-waving'.RobD said:
Far easier to ask PB what a difficult to understand word means than look it up in a dictionary.Indigo said:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hand-wavingJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving
insubstantial words, arguments, gestures, or actions used in an attempt to explain or persuade.0 -
Apparently Guy Pearce has offered to wear the prosthetics he wore in Prometheustaffys said:
There's a movie planned to feature the experiences of two child refugees coming to Britain.Anorak said:Breaking: New charity Shave the Children set up to help new wave of refugees.
Apparently Robert di Niro and Harrison Ford are among the actors interested in playing the leads. 0 -
'Jeremy being Jeremy will cease to be a positive and will instead become an increasingly bigger negative.'
As opposed to now, where he is storming ahead in the polls and Labour are charging towards election victory.....0 -
Salmon seems like he is playing games with this one, using parliament to try and get his opponents to trip. I wouldn't have expected behaviour like this, particularly from someone who plays a straight a bat as SalmondIanB2 said:
Hasn't Corby just handed his opponents another chance to show their Discontent?SouthamObserver said:
Benn may well still win. He'll get the vast majority of PLP support, it's then down to what other parties do. The SNP will be interesting: Salmond nominated Hoey (presumably as he is after as hard a Brexit as possible); John Nicholson nominated Benn. The various Ulster unionist parties will all back Hoey, so the Tories will decide.MaxPB said:The lack lf scrutiny that Hoey will bring to the role is worrisome. Fox and Davis need to be kept on a tight leash, I'm not sure that Hoey will manage it. The PM certainly isn't.
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That's why you come to PB for your dictionary definitions. It's actually "hand-waving means hand-waving, and we're going to make a success of it".. jeez.williamglenn said:
Don't ask Theresa May though. You'd get the answer 'hand-waving means hand-waving'.RobD said:
Far easier to ask PB what a difficult to understand word means than look it up in a dictionary.Indigo said:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hand-wavingJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving
insubstantial words, arguments, gestures, or actions used in an attempt to explain or persuade.0 -
From wiki:RobD said:
I saw it used by Indigo based on a search of the last thread. Perhaps it was used earlier on too?619 said:
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
Handwaving is frequently used in low-quality debate, including political campaigning and commentary, issue-based advocacy, advertising and public relations, tabloid journalism, opinion pieces, Internet memes, and informal discussion and writing. If the opponent in a debate or commentator on an argument alleges hand-waving, it suggests the proponent of the argument, position or message has engaged in one or more fallacies of logic, usually informal, and/or glossed over non-trivial details, and is attempting to wave away challenges and deflect questions, as if swatting at flies.0 -
1) welcome - more posts plsCynosarges said:I'm reminded of a comment made about the Palestinian leadership. Replacing the appropriate name,
Corbyn never misses a chance to make a mistake.
2) small point but you do a disservice to Abba Eban, who, describing the Arabs (not Palestinians only), said that they "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."0 -
So, dismiss?Indigo said:
From wiki:RobD said:
I saw it used by Indigo based on a search of the last thread. Perhaps it was used earlier on too?619 said:
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
Handwaving is frequently used in low-quality debate, including political campaigning and commentary, issue-based advocacy, advertising and public relations, tabloid journalism, opinion pieces, Internet memes, and informal discussion and writing. If the opponent in a debate or commentator on an argument alleges hand-waving, it suggests the proponent of the argument, position or message has engaged in one or more fallacies of logic, usually informal, and/or glossed over non-trivial details, and is attempting to wave away challenges and deflect questions, as if swatting at flies.
0 -
More or less, but it has overtones of desperation and frantic attempts to wave away or deflect awkward questions.RobD said:
So, dismiss?Indigo said:
From wiki:RobD said:
I saw it used by Indigo based on a search of the last thread. Perhaps it was used earlier on too?619 said:
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
Handwaving is frequently used in low-quality debate, including political campaigning and commentary, issue-based advocacy, advertising and public relations, tabloid journalism, opinion pieces, Internet memes, and informal discussion and writing. If the opponent in a debate or commentator on an argument alleges hand-waving, it suggests the proponent of the argument, position or message has engaged in one or more fallacies of logic, usually informal, and/or glossed over non-trivial details, and is attempting to wave away challenges and deflect questions, as if swatting at flies.0 -
They had such a lovely chain of steak houses, too. I could never understand why only tourists seem to eat in there.Philip_Thompson said:
The collapsing pound is designed to boost exports and just because we export beef does not mean we run out of beef domestically. There will still be plenty of Aberdeen Angus etc available in the UK even if some is exported, our farmers can increase production if there's more demand.MarkSenior said:
Who knows with the collapsing pound . We cannot all afford to eat Swiss and Italian cheese or pineapples from Kenya .Philip_Thompson said:FPT
Wow, what do you say to this? I seriously hope you're joking and don't think if we export food that means we will run out and starve?MarkSenior said:
If we export our beef to Japan what do we eat instead - Cake ?Philip_Thompson said:
Sounds like a good opportunity then. Get it unbanned (like it recently was in the USA) and our exports can rise from zero to more.Scott_P said:0 -
Elmar Brok is being heavily featured in BBC News all morning and now the afternoon, as he supports Remoaners. Rees-Mogg describes Brok as an oaf, so I had a look at Brok's wikipedia page for evidence of being an oaf...
"On March 21, 2013 women's rights activist and Femen-founder Alexandra Shevchenko assaulted Elmar Brok in front of the European Parliament in Brussels, after luring him outside the building with a phony interview request.[30] Femen accused Brok of soliciting the services of Ukrainian prostitutes and insulting Ukrainian women. Although Femen never disclosed its source, instead mentioning "reliable informations"[31](sic), the Kyiv Post reported shortly after that circumstantial evidence points to First Deputy Prosecutor General of Ukraine Renat Kuzmin being involved.[32] The European External Action Service denied all allegations against Brok, citing his intensive agenda during his visit.[33] After the assault, one Femen activist was able to flee the scene while Shevchenko was arrested by police officers. Brok did not press criminal charges against Shevchenko."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmar_Brok#Femen_attack_in_Brussels0 -
Just read the details of the murder case currently in the news. In the US this would be Murder 1. Premeditated and absolutely awful. I hope they both get full sentences life without parole. They cannot be redeemed.0
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Make Russia Great Again.619 said:oooooohhhhh. Trump connections with Russa proven
https://twitter.com/funder/status/7880404114073436180 -
The New Hacker's Dictionary (a.k.a. The Jargon File) observes:Indigo said:
More or less, but it has overtones of desperation and frantic attempts to wave away or deflect awkward questions.RobD said:
So, dismiss?Indigo said:
From wiki:RobD said:
I saw it used by Indigo based on a search of the last thread. Perhaps it was used earlier on too?619 said:
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
Handwaving is frequently used in low-quality debate, including political campaigning and commentary, issue-based advocacy, advertising and public relations, tabloid journalism, opinion pieces, Internet memes, and informal discussion and writing. If the opponent in a debate or commentator on an argument alleges hand-waving, it suggests the proponent of the argument, position or message has engaged in one or more fallacies of logic, usually informal, and/or glossed over non-trivial details, and is attempting to wave away challenges and deflect questions, as if swatting at flies.
If someone starts a sentence with "Clearly..." or "Obviously..." or "It is self-evident that...", it is a good bet he is about to handwave (alternatively, use of these constructions in a sarcastic tone before a paraphrase of someone else's argument suggests that it is a handwave). The theory behind this term is that if you wave your hands at the right moment, the listener may be sufficiently distracted to not notice that what you have said is bogus [i.e., incorrect]. Failing that, if a listener does object, you might try to dismiss the objection with a wave of your hand.[2]0 -
Tom Cruise just looks too young to play a refugee.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Apparently Guy Pearce has offered to wear the prosthetics he wore in Prometheustaffys said:
There's a movie planned to feature the experiences of two child refugees coming to Britain.Anorak said:Breaking: New charity Shave the Children set up to help new wave of refugees.
Apparently Robert di Niro and Harrison Ford are among the actors interested in playing the leads.
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TCPoliticalBetting said:
Tom Cruise just looks too young to play a refugee and too short.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Apparently Guy Pearce has offered to wear the prosthetics he wore in Prometheustaffys said:
There's a movie planned to feature the experiences of two child refugees coming to Britain.Anorak said:Breaking: New charity Shave the Children set up to help new wave of refugees.
Apparently Robert di Niro and Harrison Ford are among the actors interested in playing the leads.0 -
Oops, I may have handwaved my reply to bobajob by saying it was blindingly obvious what you meant.Indigo said:
The New Hacker's Dictionary (a.k.a. The Jargon File) observes:Indigo said:
More or less, but it has overtones of desperation and frantic attempts to wave away or deflect awkward questions.RobD said:
So, dismiss?Indigo said:
From wiki:RobD said:
I saw it used by Indigo based on a search of the last thread. Perhaps it was used earlier on too?619 said:
Plato uses it to describe anyone who disagrees with her. Very much a Trump ramper!RobD said:
Er, I am pretty sure it wasn't said by a Trump ramper.619 said:
It just seems to be Trump rampers upset because people won't bite on stupid wikileaks data dumps and say ITS ALL OVER FOR CLINTONJobabob said:FPT
Handwaving - yeah, just don't understand this term in the context it's used by PBers. Is it yet another awful PB/internet phrase like virtual signalling and waycist? What does it mean?!
Handwaving is frequently used in low-quality debate, including political campaigning and commentary, issue-based advocacy, advertising and public relations, tabloid journalism, opinion pieces, Internet memes, and informal discussion and writing. If the opponent in a debate or commentator on an argument alleges hand-waving, it suggests the proponent of the argument, position or message has engaged in one or more fallacies of logic, usually informal, and/or glossed over non-trivial details, and is attempting to wave away challenges and deflect questions, as if swatting at flies.
If someone starts a sentence with "Clearly..." or "Obviously..." or "It is self-evident that...", it is a good bet he is about to handwave (alternatively, use of these constructions in a sarcastic tone before a paraphrase of someone else's argument suggests that it is a handwave). The theory behind this term is that if you wave your hands at the right moment, the listener may be sufficiently distracted to not notice that what you have said is bogus [i.e., incorrect]. Failing that, if a listener does object, you might try to dismiss the objection with a wave of your hand.[2]0
/twitter.com/funder/status/788040411407343618
