Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joff Wild says keep an eye on Keir

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joff Wild says keep an eye on Keir

If the Holborn and St Pancras MP is not the first to leave the shadow cabinet, his new Brexit role makes him a decent outside bet in the Labour leadership stakes, writes Joff Wild

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,634
    edited October 2016
    The last shall be first.

  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    T

    U
  • Options
    "Joff Wild? I was absolutely livid!" :)
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Time for Labour to stop speculating on the next leader and focus on the current one!

    I do like the 'shock' alternate scenario that Corbyn and Mcdonnell pursue a collegiate approach.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Completely off topic.

    Trumps campaign really do fear more damaging info coming out about him.

    If they fear it, its obviously there. Chances are his opponents do have it.

    There are signs of pressure starting to come on to Mike Pence. Reportedly Pence is pretty downbeat about the whole show. His separation from Trump, always a weak connection in the first place, is underway. Its just whether he jumps ship.

    On topic, yeah lets put a lawyer in. Not sure thats quite the answer for Labour over the next few years.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,261
    I'm on Starmer at mid 20s. Seems value to me if something changes within Labour after next GE.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,261
    Y0kel said:

    Completely off topic.

    Trumps campaign really do fear more damaging info coming out about him.

    If they fear it, its obviously there. Chances are his opponents do have it.

    There are signs of pressure starting to come on to Mike Pence. Reportedly Pence is pretty downbeat about the whole show. His separation from Trump, always a weak connection in the first place, is underway. Its just whether he jumps ship.

    On topic, yeah lets put a lawyer in. Not sure thats quite the answer for Labour over the next few years.

    So what happens if the Veep candidate resigns from the ticket?
  • Options
    Off topic.

    What I don't understand about this Trump stuff is why it has only become an issue now. All this stuff has been in the public eye for years. It seems another example of the media leading the news rather than the other way around.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Off topic.

    What I don't understand about this Trump stuff is why it has only become an issue now. All this stuff has been in the public eye for years

    It certainly is no surprise to anyone, I am sure.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,634

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    She came within a whisker of winning in the 2010 leadership election, after all.
  • Options
    It would have been better for democracy if whoever had those tapes had aired them about the time of the New Hampshire Primary.

    However I am seeing reports that the Dems allegedly wanted extreme GoP candidates to make it easier for Hillary to win. If this is the case it will pay off in the short term at a terrible price in the long term.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    Nah it will be McDonnell and Dave Nellist will be deputy have been selected via AWS
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016
    I have it on good authority that Farage was born in the US and Trump has told the GoP he is willing to step down if Farage is his replacement.














    Only Joking.

    Logging off now. Wasted far too much time here this weekend.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    FPT tyson said:

    "That's why I find people (universally right wing) drawing equivalence between the two candidates quite disingenuous. They know that GOP have made a terrible choice and chosen probably one of the most unfit candidates to be President ever, but they always qualify this by saying Hillary is just as bad or words to that effect. They must know this isn't the case, but they cannot hide their right wing prejudices (sean fear is one of the worst culprits).

    "I'm centre left. I know Corbyn is a terrible choice for Labour, terrible and unfit to be PM, not just because of his inability to adapt his thinking to the modern world, living in the past, but also his competence. The re-shuffle this week displayed his inability to understand how to go about creating a plausible alternative.

    "That said, I am not so lefty partisan to say that Corbyn is terrible, but May is just as bad because she isn't. She is much more competent."

    tyson, for once I agree with you.

    I am one of those 'right-wingers' (more libertarian, actually) who was 'anyone but Trump' but who had hoped Trump, once chosen, would turn out to be not as terrible as feared. I do think Hillary will be terrible for the US, but since the debate I have switched to acknowledging that she is by far the lesser of two evils.

    For me, his post-debate twitter storm with a former beauty pageant contestant was the final straw. It proved beyond all doubt that he cannot focus, is unable to prioritize and, worst of all, does not have the self-control to avoid rising to the bait. He would be a puppet on Putin's string, the more so the angrier Putin got him. This latest set of revelations only confirms to me that the man is a complete douche bag but, while clearly confirming me in my reluctant conclusion, given that was known all along, is somewhat less shocking to me than his twitter spat.

    However, all that said, in analyzing the race even at this stage, I don't think Hillary has it in the bag. If the GOP move decisively against Trump but fail to dislodge him, she will win. But the GOP has proved remarkably ineffective so far. And there is such anger at the system here, and she is such a disliked and weak candidate, we cannot take it for granted that she won't lose it
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    fpt IanB2 said:

    "US foreign policy always seems ignorant and Ill informed, so I guess my expectations of an improvement aren't that high. Obama has been better than his predecessors TBF. Hilary will probably be OK."

    The one thing that US foreign policy is not is ill-informed. Wrong on so many levels (in your view, and frequently mine), yes. But way better informed than any other country's. Indeed, I'd argue that too much information is part of the problem. But that is an entire essay, not a pb post.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    She came within a whisker of winning in the 2010 leadership election, after all.
    Things have changed just a little since 2010...
  • Options
    William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    She came within a whisker of winning in the 2010 leadership election, after all.
    She got more votes than Ed Balls or Andy Burnham
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    O/T

    Someone was saying on here the other day how much notice foreign governments/media would be taking notice of what was said at the Conservative Party Conference and as a result how dreadful it all was.

    Well, I have spent some time this morning looking at the international edition of Der Spiegel. Number of articles mentioning the UK, let alone Brexit or the Conservative Party Conference - zero. There are two or three on the US presidential election, about the same on why German attitudes to asylum seekers/immigrants are what they are, some general finance type stuff (the one on a potential Qatari takeover of Deutsche Bank was particularly interesting) and some other bits and pieces. However, mention of the UK, not a sausage.
  • Options
    MrsBMrsB Posts: 574

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    Nah it will be McDonnell and Dave Nellist will be deputy have been selected via AWS
    Are you sure you mean AWS?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    It would have been better for democracy if whoever had those tapes had aired them about the time of the New Hampshire Primary.

    However I am seeing reports that the Dems allegedly wanted extreme GoP candidates to make it easier for Hillary to win. If this is the case it will pay off in the short term at a terrible price in the long term.

    um, one of Bush's relatives knew about it. He should have mentioned something maybe..
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    MTimT said:

    fpt IanB2 said:

    "US foreign policy always seems ignorant and Ill informed, so I guess my expectations of an improvement aren't that high. Obama has been better than his predecessors TBF. Hilary will probably be OK."

    The one thing that US foreign policy is not is ill-informed. Wrong on so many levels (in your view, and frequently mine), yes. But way better informed than any other country's. Indeed, I'd argue that too much information is part of the problem. But that is an entire essay, not a pb post.

    Obama has been one of the weakest foreign policy presidents in years. When your opponents AND many of your allies think you are useless and weak, you got a problem.

    Further off topic....theres a story that Syrian insurgents in Northern Syria have been provided some surface to air missiles as a counter to heavy use of Russian and Syrian airpower. Man portable SAMs are limited against mid-altitude operations which have become de-rigeur for a lot of airforces. Might be an issue if you are dropping barrels out the side of a chopper though.

    Any such weaponry will have US knowledge of its supply, if not sponsorship.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    FPT:

    malcolmg said:

    U Turn: ! It seems the data on companies use of Foriegn workers will no longer be published. Though this means they'll still collect it. Plan to force firms to reveal foreign staff numbers abandoned

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/09/plan-to-force-firms-to-reveal-foreign-staff-numbers-abandoned?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

    To be honest, Mr. Submarine, I am a bit lost on why recording the number of overseas workers is such a dreadful thing.

    When I was working we had to record the sex, ethnic make-up, self-identifying skin colour and religion of all our people, and more latterly some attempts were made to force us to record sexual orientation (with some difficulty, I might add). What is so different about recording country of birth, which is something that has been on many application forms for donkey's years).
    if you apply for any sort of grant from government you get ethnic and social screening.
    Alan its when they mov eonto the cleansing that is the concern
    Not everywhere's SNP Scotland malc.
    There are more BAME people in Birmingham than there are in Scotland.
    There are actually more than twice as many non-white people in Birmingham than there are in Scotland. Even though the Scottish population is five times as big.

    According to the 2011 census, Scotland is 93% UK-born and 96% white. As you might expect, most ethnic minority people are concentrated in the main cities; the rest of the country is virtually an ethnic monoculture, amongst the whitest places on the face of the Earth.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with being a monoculture. We ought simply to bear this in mind the next time that the First Minister of Scotland chooses to remind us of how exceptionally tolerant and welcoming her government and country are (in contrast to the evil Westminster/England, obviously.) It's very easy to pontificate upon complex issues when you don't actually have to deal with them yourself.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    She came within a whisker of winning in the 2010 leadership election, after all.
    Things have changed just a little since 2010...
    If Diane Abbott becomes Labour leader they'll be reduced to three seats, which will only leave room for her.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    MrsB said:

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    Nah it will be McDonnell and Dave Nellist will be deputy have been selected via AWS
    Are you sure you mean AWS?
    absolutely

    Dave will stand on a transgender ticket and Momentum will brand anyone who opposes him as a Trumpite sexist Nazi

    I confidently predict he will open the 2020 Labour conference to the tune of "I'm every woman".
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "The one thing that US foreign policy is not is ill-informed. Wrong on so many levels (in your view, and frequently mine), yes. But way better informed than any other country's. Indeed, I'd argue that too much information is part of the problem. But that is an entire essay, not a pb post."

    I should like to read that essay, Mr. T., but it would be presumptuous to expect you to actually write it.

    From where I sit, the USA seem to have gotten just about every major foreign policy decision wrong since 1945.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    619 said:

    It would have been better for democracy if whoever had those tapes had aired them about the time of the New Hampshire Primary.

    However I am seeing reports that the Dems allegedly wanted extreme GoP candidates to make it easier for Hillary to win. If this is the case it will pay off in the short term at a terrible price in the long term.

    um, one of Bush's relatives knew about it. He should have mentioned something maybe..
    Indeed Billy Bush who is the other bloke on the Tape is a cousin of the Bush's!
  • Options
    GasmanGasman Posts: 132
    edited October 2016
    Joff Wild said:

    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman, but with Stan James currently offering 20-1 I will be putting a few speculative quid on Starmer, too – I might just win; that is, if I have not already collected my winnings on his shadow cabinet departure.

    Alternatively put, "It doesn't matter that Keir Starmer would be the best person for the job, the next leader MUST have ovaries. All other qualifications and qualities are irrelevant"
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Essexit said:

    Oh come on

    Labourites are always saying the next leader will be a woman.

    Labour women are just window dressing.

    You won't be saying that when Diane Abbott takes over in 2020.
    She came within a whisker of winning in the 2010 leadership election, after all.
    Things have changed just a little since 2010...
    If Diane Abbott becomes Labour leader they'll be reduced to three seats, which will only leave room for her.
    Unkind.

    Also, even with her as Leader I'm sure they'd get well over 100.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    edited October 2016
    Gasman said:

    Joff Wild said:

    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman, but with Stan James currently offering 20-1 I will be putting a few speculative quid on Starmer, too – I might just win; that is, if I have not already collected my winnings on his shadow cabinet departure.

    Alternatively put, "It doesn't matter that Keir Starmer would be the best person for the job, the next leader MUST have ovaries. All other qualifications and qualities are irrelevant"
    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman,

    presumably you also believe in the tooth fairy.

    When the even the DUP has a woman leader maybe it's time just to stop and get real. Which of Blair's babes is going to pass the activist test ?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    SeanT said:

    It was counter-intuitive. I couldn't work out whether they were Brexiteers because they were rich enough to take a longer, clearer view, or that their wealth meant they were living in a bubble, oblivious to damage.

    Or their wealth and position gave them access to sources of information that we can only dream of which leave them to believe either or both of BrExit not being such a big deal as everything seems to think, or staying in the EU was going to be a much bigger pain in the arse than most people currently think.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .

    What is the response rate like on door knocking ? One of the problems with modern polling seems to be that the number of people that actually bother replying to the poll is often less than 1 in 10 which makes self selection problems rather likely. Canvassing seems to do rather better, how many people answer, and how many people are either conveniently or actually not in, and how many tell the person to take a hike ?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    619 said:

    It would have been better for democracy if whoever had those tapes had aired them about the time of the New Hampshire Primary.

    However I am seeing reports that the Dems allegedly wanted extreme GoP candidates to make it easier for Hillary to win. If this is the case it will pay off in the short term at a terrible price in the long term.

    um, one of Bush's relatives knew about it. He should have mentioned something maybe..
    Indeed Billy Bush who is the other bloke on the Tape is a cousin of the Bush's!
    It wouldn't have made a difference. There is a core of old wwc who don't accept America as a multi racial country. You can dress it up anyway u like but that is the core of it.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    O/T

    Someone was saying on here the other day how much notice foreign governments/media would be taking notice of what was said at the Conservative Party Conference and as a result how dreadful it all was.

    Well, I have spent some time this morning looking at the international edition of Der Spiegel. Number of articles mentioning the UK, let alone Brexit or the Conservative Party Conference - zero. There are two or three on the US presidential election, about the same on why German attitudes to asylum seekers/immigrants are what they are, some general finance type stuff (the one on a potential Qatari takeover of Deutsche Bank was particularly interesting) and some other bits and pieces. However, mention of the UK, not a sausage.

    Faisal Islam - hardly a friend of Breixt - has been working overtime on Twitter, scouring the foreign press for horrified reaction to the conference and posting it for our edification. He found an alarmist editorial in Suddeutsche Zeitung, a cartoon from an Italian newspaper, and a clipping about students which looked like it came from the bottom of page 23 of one of the English language papers in India. Not exactly an avalanche.

    We're all so caught up in the Brexit story over here that some people don't stop to consider that other countries are (a) getting on with their own lives, and (b) when they do stop to consider the rest of the world, it consists of a whole lot more than just Britain. Some of the more controversial ideas from the conference will doubtless be junked - I heard the Amber Rudd idea about listing foreign workers described as classic dogwhistling, with tough statements on Wednesday followed by measured repudiation on Sunday - and soon forgotten at home, never mind abroad.
  • Options
    William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346

    Gasman said:

    Joff Wild said:

    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman, but with Stan James currently offering 20-1 I will be putting a few speculative quid on Starmer, too – I might just win; that is, if I have not already collected my winnings on his shadow cabinet departure.

    Alternatively put, "It doesn't matter that Keir Starmer would be the best person for the job, the next leader MUST have ovaries. All other qualifications and qualities are irrelevant"
    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman,

    presumably you also believe in the tooth fairy.

    When the even the DUP has a woman leader maybe it's time just to stop and get real. Which of Blair's babes is going to pass the activist test ?
    Lisa Nandy would probably be one of the more palatable options the MPs might allow to stand. Wouldn't beat a Corbyn loyalist, but I doubt any of them will make it to a ballot.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Indigo said:

    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .

    What is the response rate like on door knocking ? One of the problems with modern polling seems to be that the number of people that actually bother replying to the poll is often less than 1 in 10 which makes self selection problems rather likely. Canvassing seems to do rather better, how many people answer, and how many people are either conveniently or actually not in, and how many tell the person to take a hike ?
    And how many will be ever so polite and say that they are going to vote for the party of the canvasser, just to avoid causing offence and to make them go away quickly?
  • Options
    The Independent: Homophobic attacks rose 147 per cent after the Brexit vote. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwvf24tS4
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    William_H said:

    Gasman said:

    Joff Wild said:

    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman, but with Stan James currently offering 20-1 I will be putting a few speculative quid on Starmer, too – I might just win; that is, if I have not already collected my winnings on his shadow cabinet departure.

    Alternatively put, "It doesn't matter that Keir Starmer would be the best person for the job, the next leader MUST have ovaries. All other qualifications and qualities are irrelevant"
    I believe that the next Labour leader will be a woman,

    presumably you also believe in the tooth fairy.

    When the even the DUP has a woman leader maybe it's time just to stop and get real. Which of Blair's babes is going to pass the activist test ?
    Lisa Nandy would probably be one of the more palatable options the MPs might allow to stand. Wouldn't beat a Corbyn loyalist, but I doubt any of them will make it to a ballot.
    Unless Corbyn now has control of the NEC and changes the rules for getting on the ballot.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721

    Indigo said:

    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .

    What is the response rate like on door knocking ? One of the problems with modern polling seems to be that the number of people that actually bother replying to the poll is often less than 1 in 10 which makes self selection problems rather likely. Canvassing seems to do rather better, how many people answer, and how many people are either conveniently or actually not in, and how many tell the person to take a hike ?
    And how many will be ever so polite and say that they are going to vote for the party of the canvasser, just to avoid causing offence and to make them go away quickly?
    Presumably they don't realise that they will be called on again to check that they have voted.
  • Options
    SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    Labour just can't get along with each other.

    Break: Labour whips @ConorMcGinn & @HollyLynch5 resign following Jeremy Corbyn's reshuffle.Unhappy w/ sacking of Chief Whip Rosie Winterton?

    — Sophy Ridge (@SophyRidgeSky) 9 October 2016
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    We're all so caught up in the Brexit story over here that some people don't stop to consider that other countries are (a) getting on with their own lives, and (b) when they do stop to consider the rest of the world, it consists of a whole lot more than just Britain. Some of the more controversial ideas from the conference will doubtless be junked - I heard the Amber Rudd idea about listing foreign workers described as classic dogwhistling, with tough statements on Wednesday followed by measured repudiation on Sunday - and soon forgotten at home, never mind abroad.

    Well quite. Over here a few local businessmen asked me about BrExit for a day or two after the referendum, but I haven't heard anything on the subject since. I haven't heard anything from anyone on the conference, even the British expats (who I spent several hours drinking with last night). The only bitching I have been hearing is from a few of the newer people who are unhappy with the exchange rate because their saving are in pounds and they are living in pesos. Neither Mrs Indigo nor Mrs Indigo(Snr) mentioned in on the phone today, outside a few obsessives (like us), the media and the activists, no one is that fussed.

    If most people don't wake up to politics until a couple of weeks before a general election, what makes us think they pay any attention at all to a party conference.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Indigo said:

    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .

    What is the response rate like on door knocking ? One of the problems with modern polling seems to be that the number of people that actually bother replying to the poll is often less than 1 in 10 which makes self selection problems rather likely. Canvassing seems to do rather better, how many people answer, and how many people are either conveniently or actually not in, and how many tell the person to take a hike ?
    Good questions which I cant answer as these days my canvassing is limited to my own small patch of circa 100 homes . Contact rate is virtually 100% but the high percentage of buy to let flats means a high turn over rate of new voters not yet on the register replacing old voters who have moved away .
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Anecdotage: I was at a party last night with some really really rich people - I'm talking Sunday Times top 100 rich. They were pro-Brexit.

    One financier reckoned the damage to the City would be "minimal", and Brexit was required to end the flow of regulation from Brussels.

    It was counter-intuitive. I couldn't work out whether they were Brexiteers because they were rich enough to take a longer, clearer view, or that their wealth meant they were living in a bubble, oblivious to damage.

    Those two options aren't mutually exclusive. Many of us most gloomy about Brexit would conceed the very wealthy will adapt and do well. It's those most disadvantaged by globalisation todate we fear will be most damage by the extra globalisation Brexit will bring.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - YouGov Election Model - Sample 45,326 .. 2,848 last 24 hrs

    Clinton 48.5 .. Trump 43.3

    https://today.yougov.com/us-election/
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,150
    edited October 2016

    FPT:

    malcolmg said:

    U Turn: ! It seems the data on companies use of Foriegn workers will no longer be published. Though this means they'll still collect it. Plan to force firms to reveal foreign staff numbers abandoned

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/09/plan-to-force-firms-to-reveal-foreign-staff-numbers-abandoned?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

    To be honest, Mr. Submarine, I am a bit lost on why recording the number of overseas workers is such a dreadful thing.

    When I was working we had to record the sex, ethnic make-up, self-identifying skin colour and religion of all our people, and more latterly some attempts were made to force us to record sexual orientation (with some difficulty, I might add). What is so different about recording country of birth, which is something that has been on many application forms for donkey's years).
    if you apply for any sort of grant from government you get ethnic and social screening.
    Alan its when they mov eonto the cleansing that is the concern
    Not everywhere's SNP Scotland malc.
    There are more BAME people in Birmingham than there are in Scotland.
    There are actually more than twice as many non-white people in Birmingham than there are in Scotland. Even though the Scottish population is five times as big.

    According to the 2011 census, Scotland is 93% UK-born and 96% white. As you might expect, most ethnic minority people are concentrated in the main cities; the rest of the country is virtually an ethnic monoculture, amongst the whitest places on the face of the Earth.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with being a monoculture. We ought simply to bear this in mind the next time that the First Minister of Scotland chooses to remind us of how exceptionally tolerant and welcoming her government and country are (in contrast to the evil Westminster/England, obviously.) It's very easy to pontificate upon complex issues when you don't actually have to deal with them yourself.
    So about the same as Wales, and less white than say e.g. Cornwall, and a good deal less than NI?

    I'll bear that in mind next time you pontificate on 'complex' issues.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    WTF?

    Darren McCaffrey
    BREAK: Holly Lynch MP and Conor McGinn MP have resigned from the shadow whips office following Jeremy Corby's recent reshuffle.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721

    Off topic.

    What I don't understand about this Trump stuff is why it has only become an issue now. All this stuff has been in the public eye for years. It seems another example of the media leading the news rather than the other way around.

    No, it's perfectly understandable that it becomes an issue when it is generally known.
    What is surprising is that Bush, Kasich, Cruz et al didn't find and exploit it earlier.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    PPN
    #NEW NBC/WSJ/Marist Polls:

    Florida:
    Clinton 45 (+3)
    Trump 42
    Johnson 5
    Stein 3

    Pennsylvania:
    Clinton 49 (+12)
    Trump 37
    Johnson 6
    Stein 4
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    PlatoSaid said:

    PPN
    #NEW NBC/WSJ/Marist Polls:

    Florida:
    Clinton 45 (+3)
    Trump 42
    Johnson 5
    Stein 3

    Pennsylvania:
    Clinton 49 (+12)
    Trump 37
    Johnson 6
    Stein 4

    oh dear. Even you must be worried now...
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2016

    The Independent: Homophobic attacks rose 147 per cent after the Brexit vote. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwvf24tS4

    I notice they carefully dont mention any absolute numbers. The article on racially motivated assault was similarly dishonest a month or so ago. I can't remember the figures but is was something like an increase of 50%, but in reality from 40 to 60, and a more honest headline might have been "20 more attacks since BrExit", or "level of attacks raises from insignificant to really tiny". I am sure there is a problem, but a bit more honesty about the figures would serve us all well.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,735
    FPT:
    Indigo said:

    malcolmg said:

    U Turn: ! It seems the data on companies use of Foriegn workers will no longer be published. Though this means they'll still collect it. Plan to force firms to reveal foreign staff numbers abandoned

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/09/plan-to-force-firms-to-reveal-foreign-staff-numbers-abandoned?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

    To be honest, Mr. Submarine, I am a bit lost on why recording the number of overseas workers is such a dreadful thing.

    When I was working we had to record the sex, ethnic make-up, self-identifying skin colour and religion of all our people, and more latterly some attempts were made to force us to record sexual orientation (with some difficulty, I might add). What is so different about recording country of birth, which is something that has been on many application forms for donkey's years).
    Hurst, you have to be kidding , where have we heard of keeping secret lists of foreigners by authorities. I can think of two perfect examples of why any intelligent person shoiuld be horrified to be associated with any such thing , that nice Mr Hitler in Germany and the equally nice Mr Lenin in Russia. This si what happens when you have extreme nationalist governments.
    It's currently standard practise in the country of that nice liberal Mr Obama.
    They go much further - they list

    - Employer
    - Job title
    - Location
    - Nationality

    And put it all online:

    http://www.myvisajobs.com/GreenCard/SearchLCA.aspx?Y=2014&PN=2
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Essexit said:

    William_H said:



    Lisa Nandy would probably be one of the more palatable options the MPs might allow to stand. Wouldn't beat a Corbyn loyalist, but I doubt any of them will make it to a ballot.

    Unless Corbyn now has control of the NEC and changes the rules for getting on the ballot.
    If the centrists really felt the problem was Corbyn specifically, they would agree to ease access to the ballot, so that a left-wing candidate could be confident of getting on. Otherwise the message to Corbyn is "We don't approve of you AND if we get rid of you we'll arrange the system to make sure nobody else with similar views gets a chance to stand". Given someone as consistntly dedicated as Corbyn, that guarantees that he'll stay onas long as he possibly can.

    The suspicion is that the centrists don't see the problem as Corbyn but the policy differences, and they want to prevent a left-wing candidate from getting on the ballot. Combined with the conspicuous absence of new centrist policy, this isn't a very satisfactory position and goes a long way to alienating the soft left in precisely the way that we've just seen.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    SeanT said:

    Anecdotage: I was at a party last night with some really really rich people - I'm talking Sunday Times top 100 rich. They were pro-Brexit.

    One financier reckoned the damage to the City would be "minimal", and Brexit was required to end the flow of regulation from Brussels.

    It was counter-intuitive. I couldn't work out whether they were Brexiteers because they were rich enough to take a longer, clearer view, or that their wealth meant they were living in a bubble, oblivious to damage.

    Those two options aren't mutually exclusive. Many of us most gloomy about Brexit would conceed the very wealthy will adapt and do well. It's those most disadvantaged by globalisation todate we fear will be most damage by the extra globalisation Brexit will bring.
    You mean the people who actually voted for Brexit ?

    Why do you think you know what they want more than they do ?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Florida - Marist/NBC/WSJ

    Clinton 46 .. Trump 44

    Pennsylvania - Marist/NBC/WSJ

    Clinton 51 .. Trump 39

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/polls-clinton-ahead-florida-pennsylvania-n662076
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Indigo said:

    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .

    What is the response rate like on door knocking ? One of the problems with modern polling seems to be that the number of people that actually bother replying to the poll is often less than 1 in 10 which makes self selection problems rather likely. Canvassing seems to do rather better, how many people answer, and how many people are either conveniently or actually not in, and how many tell the person to take a hike ?
    In cities, only about a third are in as a rule; in suburbs, more like half; in rural areas, maybe two thirds. Experienced canvassers reckon they can spot fake/evasive replies ("Will you vote for me?" "I'll certainly be voting") but the best guide is comparison with previous replies - if someone sometimes lies to canvassers, he probably always does. It's not infallible (as I demonstrated last year, sadly), but generally one can predict a result quite well from looking at swings from previous replies.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    NBC/WSJ/Marist Head-2-Head Polls:

    Florida:
    Clinton 46
    Trump 44

    Pennsylvania:
    Clinton 51
    Trump 39

    https://t.co/fxrd1do3HR https://t.co/BEVsQWsjoK
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,837
    SeanT said:

    Anecdotage: I was at a party last night with some really really rich people - I'm talking Sunday Times top 100 rich. They were pro-Brexit.

    One financier reckoned the damage to the City would be "minimal", and Brexit was required to end the flow of regulation from Brussels.

    It was counter-intuitive. I couldn't work out whether they were Brexiteers because they were rich enough to take a longer, clearer view, or that their wealth meant they were living in a bubble, oblivious to damage.

    I have things to do this affy, so can't stop long. Some people will genuinely do well out of Brexit (Philip_Thompson's line about creative destruction was not wrong, tho' neither he not I are really in a position to benefit). And the point about long-term benefit is not unreasonable and may in fact be true, although I would like to see some kind of success criteria.

    But regardless of that, they may still be wrong. As previously adumbrated, people are lousy at assessing risk, and can be very Pollyanna-ish while assessing future outcomes. Great wealth and intelligence does not necessarily alleviate this.

    If you are at such a party again, try to get a feel about success and costs. What would they consider a success, and what costs would they bear (or get others to bear)? I fear they will be too woolly on the former and too vague (or callous) about the latter.

    Hence my concerns.

  • Options
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Anecdotage: I was at a party last night with some really really rich people - I'm talking Sunday Times top 100 rich. They were pro-Brexit.

    One financier reckoned the damage to the City would be "minimal", and Brexit was required to end the flow of regulation from Brussels.

    It was counter-intuitive. I couldn't work out whether they were Brexiteers because they were rich enough to take a longer, clearer view, or that their wealth meant they were living in a bubble, oblivious to damage.

    Those two options aren't mutually exclusive. Many of us most gloomy about Brexit would conceed the very wealthy will adapt and do well. It's those most disadvantaged by globalisation todate we fear will be most damage by the extra globalisation Brexit will bring.
    Yes, but these guys were seeing Brexit as good for the whole country (as well as the City). They really believe it is a good idea, though they admit there will be some "turbulence".

    Come to think of it, I met a very very posh English lady in Calabria earlier this year (married to an Italian aristo, living in a palazzo). She was also a Leaver.

    I have discovered a minor sociological phenomenon. The upper class Brexiteer.
    Remember in wealthy parts of Surrey it was basically 50/50, despite being stuffed full of rich educated individuals many of which work in London.

    Who voted for what & why was far more complex than the media narrative.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344

    "The one thing that US foreign policy is not is ill-informed. Wrong on so many levels (in your view, and frequently mine), yes. But way better informed than any other country's. Indeed, I'd argue that too much information is part of the problem. But that is an entire essay, not a pb post."

    I should like to read that essay, Mr. T., but it would be presumptuous to expect you to actually write it.

    From where I sit, the USA seem to have gotten just about every major foreign policy decision wrong since 1945.

    I was told yesterday by someone familiar with the Obama campaign (before election) that he had three HUNDRED paid staff researching foreign policy issues, so that he could reply to anything, even, "What do you make of developments in Guatemala?"

    In Britain parties feel they'd be pushing the boat out to have three foreign policy experts on trhe payroll.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Indigo said:

    We're all so caught up in the Brexit story over here that some people don't stop to consider that other countries are (a) getting on with their own lives, and (b) when they do stop to consider the rest of the world, it consists of a whole lot more than just Britain. Some of the more controversial ideas from the conference will doubtless be junked - I heard the Amber Rudd idea about listing foreign workers described as classic dogwhistling, with tough statements on Wednesday followed by measured repudiation on Sunday - and soon forgotten at home, never mind abroad.

    Well quite. Over here a few local businessmen asked me about BrExit for a day or two after the referendum, but I haven't heard anything on the subject since. I haven't heard anything from anyone on the conference, even the British expats (who I spent several hours drinking with last night). The only bitching I have been hearing is from a few of the newer people who are unhappy with the exchange rate because their saving are in pounds and they are living in pesos. Neither Mrs Indigo nor Mrs Indigo(Snr) mentioned in on the phone today, outside a few obsessives (like us), the media and the activists, no one is that fussed.

    If most people don't wake up to politics until a couple of weeks before a general election, what makes us think they pay any attention at all to a party conference.
    I'm currently reading an Offering Circular for an Cayman company with Irish residence guaranteed by a Asian company, to be listed on an Asian exchange and marketed to Asian investors. Brexit is one of the risk factors, both legal and commercial. Mind you, so is EU sovereign default.
  • Options
    SO - Unless you've changed your mind over the past four hours, I'll stick with your "gun against the head" pick of Lisa Nandy from the previous thread, although I have to say she doesn't come across as being particularly Prime Ministerial.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    @MTIMt

    Thanks....good to get a bit of convergence from different perspectives once in a while.
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Off topic.

    What I don't understand about this Trump stuff is why it has only become an issue now. All this stuff has been in the public eye for years. It seems another example of the media leading the news rather than the other way around.

    The news is something delivered using the media. No media, no news.

  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And the mudslinging begins - The Donald tweets


    EXCLUSIVE — Video Interview: Bill Clinton Accuser Juanita Broaddrick Relives Brutal Rapes:
    https://t.co/9j7f8VK9Md
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2016

    SO - Unless you've changed your mind over the past four hours, I'll stick with your "gun against the head" pick of Lisa Nandy from the previous thread, although I have to say she doesn't come across as being particularly Prime Ministerial.

    Being Prime Ministerial seems to be quite low down the list of requirements for a Labour leader at the moment ;)

    Its kind of like the US Primary System isnt it. The prospective Labour leader has to make themselves attractive to a frothing bunch of hard lefties to have any chance of being selected as leader, but then has to some how row for the centre to have any chance of being acceptable to the voters, and if Corbyn gets his way they will have no chance because at the first sign of rowing there will be the next annual leadership election and they will get kicked out.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    "Columbus Dispatch" in Ohio endorses Clinton, first time a Dem chosen since 1916 :

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300061-ohio-newspaper-breaks-with-tradition-endorses-clinton
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Who voted for what & why was far more complex than the media narrative.

    You mean it wasn't because all working class people are thick racists?

  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Jenna Johnson
    Mike Pence told Republican donors Saturday night that he is fully committed to Donald Trump: https://t.co/bs2BueVPft via @WSJ
  • Options

    SO - Unless you've changed your mind over the past four hours, I'll stick with your "gun against the head" pick of Lisa Nandy from the previous thread, although I have to say she doesn't come across as being particularly Prime Ministerial.

    Starmer's an outside bet, worth a few quid. Nandy is more likely, I'd say.

  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Y0kel said:

    Obama has been one of the weakest foreign policy presidents in years. When your opponents AND many of your allies think you are useless and weak, you got a problem.

    You'll find no argument from me on that.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/785105824234418176

    Wow. Rudy admits Trump was talking about sexual assault and he 'doesnt know' if he did what he said...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    Total collapse by England in the Cricket. Not a huge target but very hard to see a way back from here.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,837
    SeanT said:



    Yes, but these guys were seeing Brexit as good for the whole country (as well as the City). They really believe it is a good idea, though they admit there will be some "turbulence".

    Come to think of it, I met a very very posh English lady in Calabria earlier this year (married to an Italian aristo, living in a palazzo). She was also a Leaver.

    I have discovered a minor sociological phenomenon. The upper class Brexiteer.

    OK, last one then I have work to do. I'm on a Max Hastings kick, and have just gone thru "Secret War" (WWII), "All Hell Broke Loose" (WWII) and "Catastrophe" (WWI) like a raptor thru a flock. Telling me that the financiers and the landed gentry are in favour of a course of action despite some "turbulence" does not reassure me. They have a nasty habit of fucking up rather bigly... :(
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    CBS battleground polls:
    OH: Clinton 46, Trump 42
    PA: Clinton 48, Trump 40
    WI: Clinton 43, Trump 39

    All done before Access Hollywood tapes.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DMcCaffreySKY: Labour source close to Corbyn tells me won't be losing sleep over McGinn's resignation after his disloyalty. Was going to be sacked anyway.

    @PolhomeEditor: Strange, as I understand Nick Brown told Conor McGinn and Holly Lynch earlier this afternoon he wanted them to stay. twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/…
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    So about the same as Wales, and less white than say e.g. Cornwall, and a good deal less than NI?

    I'll bear that in mind next time you pontificate on 'complex' issues.

    Scotland: marginally less white than Wales! Diversity in action, eh?

    Seriously, when the Scottish Government tries to virtue signal about how tolerant it is, it's talking about an issue that it does not need to confront. According to the latest available mid-year population estimates, net international migration to England was 307,300 (and that's making the big assumption that the authorities aren't missing large numbers of illegals.) The equivalent figure for Scotland was 19,600. Total population growth was 469,700 in England, which is slightly greater than Liverpool. It was 25,400 in Scotland, which is slightly greater than Elgin. Even accounting for the fact that Scotland is significantly smaller by land area and a small fraction of the size by total population, the disparities - and the difference in the magnitude of their effects - is huge.

    England is, on average, much more ethnically diverse and has been subject to much greater levels of inward migration than has Scotland. It is, indeed, very easy for Scottish ministers to tell the world how good they are at dealing with a situation that barely requires their attention.
  • Options

    Essexit said:

    William_H said:



    Lisa Nandy would probably be one of the more palatable options the MPs might allow to stand. Wouldn't beat a Corbyn loyalist, but I doubt any of them will make it to a ballot.

    Unless Corbyn now has control of the NEC and changes the rules for getting on the ballot.
    If the centrists really felt the problem was Corbyn specifically, they would agree to ease access to the ballot, so that a left-wing candidate could be confident of getting on. Otherwise the message to Corbyn is "We don't approve of you AND if we get rid of you we'll arrange the system to make sure nobody else with similar views gets a chance to stand". Given someone as consistntly dedicated as Corbyn, that guarantees that he'll stay onas long as he possibly can.

    The suspicion is that the centrists don't see the problem as Corbyn but the policy differences, and they want to prevent a left-wing candidate from getting on the ballot. Combined with the conspicuous absence of new centrist policy, this isn't a very satisfactory position and goes a long way to alienating the soft left in precisely the way that we've just seen.

    No - the issue is Corbyn and the baggage he brings. Same with McDonnell and Abbott. We all know that this makes them, and therefore Labour, totally unelectable. There is widespread acceptance that the left is in the ascendent. As you well know, the idea that people like John Cryer, Lisa Nandy, Chris Mullins, Owen Smith etc are centrists is completely ridiculous.

  • Options
    619 said:
    I'm sick and tired of popcorn...
  • Options
    What time does the shit show start this evening?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    619 said:

    CBS battleground polls:
    OH: Clinton 46, Trump 42
    PA: Clinton 48, Trump 40
    WI: Clinton 43, Trump 39

    All done before Access Hollywood tapes.

    FOP - These recent Florida and Ohio polls are trending away from Trump but Pennsylvania off the table is a killer for the Donald.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    What time does the shit show start this evening?

    2am.
  • Options
    For Nick Palmer:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/08/labour-revolt-over-jeremy-corbyn-sacking-rosie-winterton-reshuffle?CMP=share_btn_tw

    These people are not centrists. Corbyn will bring down his own castle.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    In your part of the world today, Dr Fox!
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MaxPB said:

    In your part of the world today, Dr Fox!

    Whereabouts?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    PlatoSaid said:

    WTF?

    Darren McCaffrey
    BREAK: Holly Lynch MP and Conor McGinn MP have resigned from the shadow whips office following Jeremy Corby's recent reshuffle.

    In future this period of Labour parliamentary politics should just be called 'the shuffle'.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,150
    edited October 2016

    So about the same as Wales, and less white than say e.g. Cornwall, and a good deal less than NI?

    I'll bear that in mind next time you pontificate on 'complex' issues.

    Scotland: marginally less white than Wales! Diversity in action, eh?

    Seriously, when the Scottish Government tries to virtue signal about how tolerant it is, it's talking about an issue that it does not need to confront. According to the latest available mid-year population estimates, net international migration to England was 307,300 (and that's making the big assumption that the authorities aren't missing large numbers of illegals.) The equivalent figure for Scotland was 19,600. Total population growth was 469,700 in England, which is slightly greater than Liverpool. It was 25,400 in Scotland, which is slightly greater than Elgin. Even accounting for the fact that Scotland is significantly smaller by land area and a small fraction of the size by total population, the disparities - and the difference in the magnitude of their effects - is huge.

    England is, on average, much more ethnically diverse and has been subject to much greater levels of inward migration than has Scotland. It is, indeed, very easy for Scottish ministers to tell the world how good they are at dealing with a situation that barely requires their attention.
    'Has been subject to'.
    You mean has experienced the consequences of the immigration and economic policies put forward solely by the governments for which they have voted with varying degrees of enthusiasm. My heart bleeds for the poor, put-upon poppets.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    JackW said:

    619 said:

    CBS battleground polls:
    OH: Clinton 46, Trump 42
    PA: Clinton 48, Trump 40
    WI: Clinton 43, Trump 39

    All done before Access Hollywood tapes.

    FOP - These recent Florida and Ohio polls are trending away from Trump but Pennsylvania off the table is a killer for the Donald.
    I think Ohio and Florida being lean Clinton means its impossible for Trump to win. He needs both
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    What time does the shit show start this evening?

    2am.
    Planning an early breakfast?

    I am thinking: early night then tactical nap afterwards.

    It really shows a contempt of the popcorn scoffing public to put such entertainment on so late. Perhaps it is because of the X rating!

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,591

    The Independent: Homophobic attacks rose 147 per cent after the Brexit vote. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwvf24tS4

    There's something very peculiar about those numbers, and I would welcome some analysis.

    The website of the charity claimed to be behind it, and the their annual "Hate Crime 2016" report seem to contain no references whatsoever as far as I can see (help, please), and the independent has no cited data source (to be fair, they never seem to fact check anything).

    Nor is there any attempt to assess whether this is due to increased reporting, or whether anonymous online allegations via Report-IT have been assessed for duplicates, or how many reports are due to altered definitions of 'hate' etc.

    And when they talk about the "57% hate crime increase after the Referendum" for 4-5 paragraphs they don't acknowledge the official police statement that it has subsided back again within a month, which points out that reporting procedures were changed around the referendum.
    http://www.report-it.org.uk/police_release_hate_crime_data_for_june-_august

    Suspect there is rather a lot of tabloid outrage trolling going on here by the Independent.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Frank Luntz
    So far, Donald Trump's poll numbers have dropped only -1% after the #TrumpTapes leak.

    https://t.co/9EzGVJMghR https://t.co/jDAzSH6Wf3
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Interesting article, Joff, many thanks.

    Although since the government will be negotiating with the EU/countries that make up the EU, it's not that easy to see where parliament will be able to force the government's hand. Either it will be the package as negotiated, or just walk away. Won't it?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    JackW said:

    619 said:

    CBS battleground polls:
    OH: Clinton 46, Trump 42
    PA: Clinton 48, Trump 40
    WI: Clinton 43, Trump 39

    All done before Access Hollywood tapes.

    FOP - These recent Florida and Ohio polls are trending away from Trump but Pennsylvania off the table is a killer for the Donald.
    He can replace Penn with Colorado but that is not looking likely either. Indeed it is increasingly hard to make a case that this is not over (pending something truly shocking).
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MattW said:

    The Independent: Homophobic attacks rose 147 per cent after the Brexit vote. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwvf24tS4

    There's something very peculiar about those numbers, and I would welcome some analysis.

    The website of the charity claimed to be behind it, and the their annual "Hate Crime 2016" report seem to contain no references whatsoever as far as I can see (help, please), and the independent has no cited data source (to be fair, they never seem to fact check anything).

    Nor is there any attempt to assess whether this is due to increased reporting, or whether anonymous online allegations via Report-IT have been assessed for duplicates, or how many reports are due to altered definitions of 'hate' etc.

    And when they talk about the "57% hate crime increase after the Referendum" for 4-5 paragraphs they don't acknowledge the official police statement that it has subsided back again within a month, which points out that reporting procedures were changed around the referendum.
    http://www.report-it.org.uk/police_release_hate_crime_data_for_june-_august

    Suspect there is rather a lot of tabloid outrage trolling going on here by the Independent.
    The Indy lifted their report from The Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/08/homophobic-attacks-double-after-brexit-vote

    Make of this what you will.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited October 2016
    AnneJGP said:

    Interesting article, Joff, many thanks.

    Although since the government will be negotiating with the EU/countries that make up the EU, it's not that easy to see where parliament will be able to force the government's hand. Either it will be the package as negotiated, or just walk away. Won't it?

    Thanks - if Parliament wants a vote I suspect a way will be found to have one.

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    In your part of the world today, Dr Fox!

    Whereabouts?
    Loughborough, visiting a great aunt, then to Leicester to buy fireworks and possibly a spot of dinner.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    619 said:

    I think Ohio and Florida being lean Clinton means its impossible for Trump to win. He needs both

    As I've indicated ad nauseam it's FOP or bust for Trump. All going the wrong way for the Donald presently.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,996
    Indigo said:

    Vote2012 site has a report from Witney from a Liverpool Lib Dem who was on the doorstep yesterday . FWIW he says Lib Dems knocked on 7,000 homes yesterday , his forecast is Con hold with Lib Dems around 30% . I think Slade gave a similar message on here a couple of days ago .

    What is the response rate like on door knocking ? One of the problems with modern polling seems to be that the number of people that actually bother replying to the poll is often less than 1 in 10 which makes self selection problems rather likely. Canvassing seems to do rather better, how many people answer, and how many people are either conveniently or actually not in, and how many tell the person to take a hike ?
    In my experience, if you canvass in the early evening or weekend, most people are in and answer the door. Most people are incredibly polite when you ask them the impertinent question of how they intend to vote. You get the occasional one who tells you take a hike but that is rare.

    However they don't like to offend so "Don't know" or "Haven't made my mind up" or even "Probably your party" means they are going to vote for the other lot. The only ones you can rely on are those who enthusiastically say they will definitely vote for you. And even then you can't be sure.

    The ones to avoid are the very friendly ones who invite you in, offer you a glass of wine and initiate a long discussion on policy. They are opposition activists who are taking up your precious canvassing time or trying to glean intelligence.
This discussion has been closed.