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I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Early voting is already taking place in some states iirc.619 said:
2. He already said in his apology video how he will talk about bill clinton sexually assaulting women and hillary helping him.JackW said:A few thoughts on pussygate ... Sorry @plato ....
1. Debate 2 television audience on Sunday might be ever so slightly "bigly".
2. How nuclear will Donald go in Deabte 2 ?
3. Slight Pence debate momentum now stone dead.
4. How many down ballot GOP candidates will throw Trump overboard. And related :
5. From now to election day GOP candidates will hounded because of their Trump endorsements
6. How many more CBS tapes and others are there to come ?
7. Clinton is 45th POTUS but by what margin and what of Senate and House implications?
4. Utah's have already said he should resign. if he goes through with 2, the rest of the GOP may go through on ir
6. There is definitely one where he uses a unmitigiated racial slur which will probably be released in a week or so if he somehow gets momentum back going.0 -
Quite. Voters who are old enough to remember the 'Winter of Discontent' are the most agin him - its those born well afterwards who seem to think it might be fun.....edmundintokyo said:Part of it feels like the inevitable consequence of the electorate getting older, but that doesn't explain Corbyn.
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If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Thank you for that brief intervention from the 1970s.JackW said:Dare one ask .... ?!?!
Has Donald touched up Mrs Slocombe's pussy .....
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early voting has started in some places. more tapes will be revealed when early voting starts in florida i imagine.rottenborough said:
I am pretty convinced Trump has lost this already.DavidL said:The US election is looking disappointingly unclose this morning, indeed it has for a while. Clinton should win this very comfortably with the minimum of excitement.
I fear we will then have a Presidency plagued by investigations etc just as her husband's was but with a lot more substance. The damage done to the FBI by political interference in a criminal investigation is frankly shocking and completely the opposite of what our American Tims expected, rightly so given their history. We will no doubt hear a lot more about this.
The problem is even being a crook, corrupt, old and sick does not stop her from being in a completely different class from Trump. What on earth were the Republicans thinking?
As to what the Republicans were thinking - depends who you mean. Clearly the upper echelons of GOP did not want Trump and at first treated him as a sideshow joke candidate. Enough ordinary, registered GOP voters though thought otherwise. The roots of this probably lie in the Tea Party.0 -
Mr. Brooke, disappointed but accepting?0
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Doubtless the House Republicans will be looking for any grounds to impeach Hillary.PlatoSaid said:For anyone who hasn't seen Trump's statement
https://t.co/iigkV0wNrt
Pretty good effort at apologies and pivots onto Bill and Hillary attacking his victims.
And we thought it couldn't get much uglier.
I see there's evidence that Potesto or Hillary colluded over PAC campaigning. I believe that is a felony.
Trump's problem right now is not the voters but the Republican Party establishment who are already shunning him. As stated earlier, the paradox for the party is they'd rather their supporters repelled by Trump turn out to vote for Hillary than stay at home -- because the GOP wants their down-ticket votes for everyone from Congress to Dogcatcher.0 -
Total misunderstanding of May's ideology here Edmund. It is pushing for a fairer deal in light of globalisation for those work work hard but are still left behind. That so few on here understand this is no surprise - it is the site that, as a hive, predicted Remain would win and EICIPM.edmundintokyo said:On topic, the striking thing isn't just that they're old, it's that they're all actually representing a previous era.
Clinton is representing a rerun of the Clinton years, Trump is representing a return to a time when America was great and racism and sexism were acceptable, Corbyn is running on Winter of Discontent Nostalgia, which seems to be more popular with young Labour members than you might expect. Theresa May isn't that old, but her entire pitch is basically Back To The 1950s.
Part of it feels like the inevitable consequence of the electorate getting older, but that doesn't explain Corbyn.0 -
stand behind him....just not in arms length.........619 said:0 -
Yes that is probably true. The disconnect between the republican base and the republican establishment is so wide it makes Corbyn look in touch with Scottish voters. This is a deeply dysfunctional party where simply being opposed to and by the establishment was enough to win.rottenborough said:
I am pretty convinced Trump has lost this already.DavidL said:The US election is looking disappointingly unclose this morning, indeed it has for a while. Clinton should win this very comfortably with the minimum of excitement.
I fear we will then have a Presidency plagued by investigations etc just as her husband's was but with a lot more substance. The damage done to the FBI by political interference in a criminal investigation is frankly shocking and completely the opposite of what our American Tims expected, rightly so given their history. We will no doubt hear a lot more about this.
The problem is even being a crook, corrupt, old and sick does not stop her from being in a completely different class from Trump. What on earth were the Republicans thinking?
As to what the Republicans were thinking - depends who you mean. Clearly the upper echelons of GOP did not want Trump and at first treated him as a sideshow joke candidate. Enough ordinary, registered GOP voters though thought otherwise. The roots of this probably lie in the Tea Party.0 -
Quite a few have accepted the verdict & moved on.Alanbrooke said:
is there any other type of Remainer than "embittered"CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?
The people have spoken, the barstewards, now make the best of it.0 -
Yes, plenty. The accepting, the converted, the 'make the best of it' crowd. You do remember the PM was a remainer? She doesnt seem particularly embittered. And as noted, unless leave is prevented, no meddling will subvert the result since that was all we voted for, though obviously there was a clear message on certain aspects, if not as clear as people are pretending - not all leavers cared about immigration for example, but plenty of remainers shared those concerns)Alanbrooke said:
is there any other type of Remainer than "embittered"CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?0 -
I don't know this 'Jay' is he standing for some political office?Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Trump's statement:
"Let's be honest. We're living in the real world. This is nothing more than a distraction from the important issues we're facing today. We are losing our jobs, we're less safe than we were eight years ago, and Washington is totally broken. Hillary Clinton and her kind have run our country into the ground."
"And her kind"? Does he mean women?
He is getting to get his arse kicked so hard in the second debate that I only hope his towers don't all fall down.
If anyone wants to join the witches and pagans in exerting a "mental influence" during the debate to force Trump to quit, according to the Daily Telegraph the way to do it is to think of the words
* QUIT THE RACE" when the moderator Anderson Cooper puts questions, and
* "I QUIT" when Trump is speaking
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So that you are saying that Jess Phillips is right about what a night out in Birmingham is like? Women being touched up by groping men etc?Alanbrooke said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Trump losing can only add fuel to the anger of these voters. Particularly as he will claim that the result has been rigged, electoral fraud etc etc.DavidL said:
Yes that is probably true. The disconnect between the republican base and the republican establishment is so wide it makes Corbyn look in touch with Scottish voters. This is a deeply dysfunctional party where simply being opposed to and by the establishment was enough to win.rottenborough said:
I am pretty convinced Trump has lost this already.DavidL said:The US election is looking disappointingly unclose this morning, indeed it has for a while. Clinton should win this very comfortably with the minimum of excitement.
I fear we will then have a Presidency plagued by investigations etc just as her husband's was but with a lot more substance. The damage done to the FBI by political interference in a criminal investigation is frankly shocking and completely the opposite of what our American Tims expected, rightly so given their history. We will no doubt hear a lot more about this.
The problem is even being a crook, corrupt, old and sick does not stop her from being in a completely different class from Trump. What on earth were the Republicans thinking?
As to what the Republicans were thinking - depends who you mean. Clearly the upper echelons of GOP did not want Trump and at first treated him as a sideshow joke candidate. Enough ordinary, registered GOP voters though thought otherwise. The roots of this probably lie in the Tea Party.
Who will be their next champion?0 -
The rise of social media means that no case can ever be sufficiently exaggerated eg claims that Theresa May's Britain is similar to 1930's Germany.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Submarine, if accurate, that's disturbing.
Whilst I do think a small minority of Remain voters are clapping their hands with glee at any prospect of bad news, the vast majority have simply accepted the referendum result and want the best deal between the UK and EU.
However, this isn't a one way street. We've had the woeful misreporting of a murder of a Polish man attributed to the vote, a rise in reported hate crimes [stupid term] but no rise in successful prosecutions, and general doom-mongering.
There's a risk that the more zealous elements on either side proclaim Leavers to be racists and Remainers to be traitors. Again, slightly reminiscent of the intra-city conflicts between those supporting democracy and oligarchy during the Peloponnesian War.0 -
Okay, I'm now goggling at this in the Mail
"Gennifer said: ‘I don’t know Huma or the Weiners. I justknow what Bill told me and that was that he was aware that Hillary was bisexualand he didn’t care. He should know.
'He said Hillary had eaten more p***y than he had.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424555/Bill-Clintons-mistress-Gennifer-Flowers-Wed-today-wasnt-Chelsea.html0 -
Republicans are withdrawinbendorsementa left right and centre. Donors are going on record about looking for another nominee.
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Backing Pence may be a smart play.0
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Sir Bernard; if you knew the General as we do, you'd realise he is actually one of the least tribal of posters here. Unless being anti-Osborne is a tribe now; and to be honest, he was pretty solidly right on this years before many others of us saw the light...SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.0 -
Broad Street at the weekends ? frankly I wouldnt let my daughters go there when they were teenagers.foxinsoxuk said:
So that you are saying that Jess Phillips is right about what a night out in Birmingham is like? Women being touched up by groping men etc?Alanbrooke said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
I've no doubt the Daily Mail was talking about people like me.CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?0 -
Look, squirrel.PlatoSaid said:Okay, I'm now goggling at this in the Mail
"Gennifer said: ‘I don’t know Huma or the Weiners. I justknow what Bill told me and that was that he was aware that Hillary was bisexualand he didn’t care. He should know.
'He said Hillary had eaten more p***y than he had.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424555/Bill-Clintons-mistress-Gennifer-Flowers-Wed-today-wasnt-Chelsea.html0 -
Dr. Foxinsox, not sure I'd take Jess "I giggle at the thought of debating why so many men kill themselves" Phillips is especially objective when it comes to gender matters.
Mr. F, partly, but it's not just social media that's the cause.
When people have sufficiently differing perspectives on life words, phrases and the like take on such radically varying meanings that it becomes harder to see things from another's point of view. (The social media echo chamber where divergent opinions may lead to bans, moderation and censorship rather than debate does not help).
For example, 'human rights' is why a convicted murderer could not be deported to Italy, for the reason that he did not speak Italian. Contravening human rights also includes the (literal) concentration camps in North Korea.
Or look at 'feminism'. It includes people who believe in equality of the sexes. It includes people who believe historical events justify and necessitate a degree of anti-male/pro-female discrimination. It includes people who believe men are genuinely inferior to women.
Political correctness (don't be racist/censor opinions) is another.
So, you get groups of people who use the same terms in such wildly differing ways that they almost are speaking different languages. And from that, people start seeing one another as dubious at best, or sinister at worst.
[Bit of a ramble. I do apologise].0 -
pathetic.PlatoSaid said:Okay, I'm now goggling at this in the Mail
"Gennifer said: ‘I don’t know Huma or the Weiners. I justknow what Bill told me and that was that he was aware that Hillary was bisexualand he didn’t care. He should know.
'He said Hillary had eaten more p***y than he had.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424555/Bill-Clintons-mistress-Gennifer-Flowers-Wed-today-wasnt-Chelsea.html0 -
Apparently if we laugh at people in tv and movies , or root for deeply flawed people in them, that's the same as real life? Apparently id support a serial killer as PM because I rooted for Dexter in, er, Dexter.logical_song said:
I don't know this 'Jay' is he standing for some political office?Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and downeen in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him way in your office? Wow!PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
Yes, that's an absurd comparison, I don't think trump will be any more harmed by these comments than he already was, and I decry nanny statism, overdone PC culture and the idiotic right to not be offended shutting g down free speech. But it's at a point where people paint a vision of the world where people say and do grossly offensive things without consequence all the time, when the amusement from such things is generally because such talk is so extreme it is something most don't see, it takes mild sexism and takes it extremes. Groping and so definitely happens, a lot I am sure, but by and large people are outraged when it occurs and woukd criticise people talking about doing it,
Yes, I am middle class and youngish.0 -
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.CarlottaVance said:
Quite a few have accepted the verdict & moved on.Alanbrooke said:
is there any other type of Remainer than "embittered"CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?
The people have spoken, the barstewards, now make the best of it.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.0 -
Not in Glasgow.CarlottaVance said:
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.0 -
Nice of you to debunk your first sentence in your second. It saves everyone else time.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
0 -
I read recently that a child born today has a 50:50 chance of making it to 100....CarlottaVance said:
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.0 -
Congratulations on being the enemy within, clearly meant as a tribute to the excellent game XCOM, enemy Unknown and its expansion, enemy within.YellowSubmarine said:
I've no doubt the Daily Mail was talking about people like me.CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?0 -
Blimey, that's better than Ben Stokes.MarqueeMark said:
I read recently that a child born today has a 50:50 chance of making it to 100....CarlottaVance said:
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.0 -
I've heard men talk about women in disgusting ways. The worst was when I was on a jury and another member was describing how he'd done jury service before and how much he enjoyed watching a female witness squirm in that other case as she was cross-examined about what happened to her. He didn't say it to me; he said it to another bloke who he assumed didn't mind. Yes, blokes in groups can be vile, the way they talk. But I've never heard a man boast about how he grabs lots of women's genitals without them wanting it.Sean_F said:Alanbrooke said:
I've sometimes heard similar discussions. I find it crude and coarse, but then we know that Trump is a crude and coarse man, and so presumably, do his voters.SirBernard said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.Alanbrooke said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.619 said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?PlatoSaid said:
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to win
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Mr. kle4, ha, I resisted making that joke
The EU as a mind-controlling sectoid seems fitting. EU = Enemy Unknown!0 -
Oborne:
"For all these reasons I strongly believe Mrs May will be obliged to call a general election well before the five years are up. Judging from his decision a fortnight ago to place Labour on an election footing, Jeremy Corbyn agrees with me.
I doubt an election is imminent, but next spring would be the natural moment for Mrs May to seek an endorsement from the British people."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828015/PETER-OBORNE-Don-t-coward-like-Brown-Mrs-call-election.html#ixzz4MTlWBJou
0 -
As I recall the show Jay is a pathological liar and fantasist, and the joke is that he is actually sexually inadequate and never had a girlfriend.Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
I've got to that point in middle age where I enjoy pop culture references I don't understand. I find them curiously reassuring.kle4 said:
Congratulations on being the enemy within, clearly meant as a tribute to the excellent game XCOM, enemy Unknown and its expansion, enemy within.YellowSubmarine said:
I've no doubt the Daily Mail was talking about people like me.CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?0 -
That Glasgow life expectancy 'fact' is a bit misleading - the ward it refers to had a large hostel for drug addicts & derelicts who, not unsurprisingly tend to die young, and skews the stats.Alistair said:
Not in Glasgow.CarlottaVance said:
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.
Yes, Glasgow life expectancy is lower than it should be - even controlling for smoking, drinking & other factors - but it has improved - by 4 years in the last 20, while the UK has improved by 5.0 -
Why wait until 2017 and then call an election just before the new boundaries go through?rottenborough said:Oborne:
"For all these reasons I strongly believe Mrs May will be obliged to call a general election well before the five years are up. Judging from his decision a fortnight ago to place Labour on an election footing, Jeremy Corbyn agrees with me.
I doubt an election is imminent, but next spring would be the natural moment for Mrs May to seek an endorsement from the British people."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828015/PETER-OBORNE-Don-t-coward-like-Brown-Mrs-call-election.html#ixzz4MTlWBJou
A snap election in 2016 could have made sense, a snap election once the boundaries are confirmed in 2018 could make sense.
An election in 2017 would be the worst of all worlds, lost the honeymoon and losing the boundary changes. Dumb, dumb, dumb so it won't happen.0 -
I just had an epiphany of sorts. I was just walking back under the sun and the clear blue sky, having had a very agreeable lunch and a beer with a couple of friend, after a pleasant swim across the bay to the bar, and it came to me, Donald Trump ? Hillary Clinton ? I can't vote for either of them, the odds are too small to even consider betting on them, so really, who gives a cr@p.0
-
No.Dromedary said:Trump's statement:
"Let's be honest. We're living in the real world. This is nothing more than a distraction from the important issues we're facing today. We are losing our jobs, we're less safe than we were eight years ago, and Washington is totally broken. Hillary Clinton and her kind have run our country into the ground."
"And her kind"? Does he mean women?0 -
I agree.Philip_Thompson said:
Why wait until 2017 and then call an election just before the new boundaries go through?rottenborough said:Oborne:
"For all these reasons I strongly believe Mrs May will be obliged to call a general election well before the five years are up. Judging from his decision a fortnight ago to place Labour on an election footing, Jeremy Corbyn agrees with me.
I doubt an election is imminent, but next spring would be the natural moment for Mrs May to seek an endorsement from the British people."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828015/PETER-OBORNE-Don-t-coward-like-Brown-Mrs-call-election.html#ixzz4MTlWBJou
A snap election in 2016 could have made sense, a snap election once the boundaries are confirmed in 2018 could make sense.
An election in 2017 would be the worst of all worlds, lost the honeymoon and losing the boundary changes. Dumb, dumb, dumb so it won't happen.0 -
The headline calls them the enemy within, so I don't see how his sentence is debunked - the headline is still part of the article, and the bit read by most people and sets the projected tone the editors want. Even though the piece is mor measured even if does also use the phrase enemy within.ThreeQuidder said:
Nice of you to debunk your first sentence in your second. It saves everyone else time.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
0 -
You're an MP?YellowSubmarine said:
I've no doubt the Daily Mail was talking about people like me.CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?0 -
Conversely, I'm at the point exiting my 20s where I grasp hold of those references I do understand, as I realise in panic that those are becoming fewer and fewer.YellowSubmarine said:
I've got to that point in middle age where I enjoy pop culture references I don't understand. I find them curiously reassuring.kle4 said:
Congratulations on being the enemy within, clearly meant as a tribute to the excellent game XCOM, enemy Unknown and its expansion, enemy within.YellowSubmarine said:
I've no doubt the Daily Mail was talking about people like me.CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?
0 -
I'm simply pointing out that if you take a moral position you might like to be consistent rather than give yourself a dishonourable discharge. The Trump bashing is not based on a higher standard of ethics but merely a dislike of the man. Lets at least recognise that cut out the moral vacuity.kle4 said:
Apparently if we laugh at people in because I rooted for Dexter in, er, Dexter.logical_song said:
I don't know this 'Jay' is he standing for some political office?Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me ofot just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and downeen in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him way in your office? Wow!PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
blokes mouthing off has beene last couple of millenia
Yes, that's an absurd comparison, I don't think trump will e such talk is so extreme it is something most don't see, it takes mild sexism and takes it extremes.
Yes, I am middle class and youngish.
And then real life kicks in, many if not most of our political leaders have had thumping great personal flaws - Churchill alcoholism, Major and Edwina, Blair extreme greed, Jezza and Di. And it's not just us there's Belusconi, Hollande nips out on a moped for a quickie, Chirac couldnt keep it in his trousers, Bill Clinton didnt bother with the trousers. If your going to set moral high bars for your leaders you'll get no-one.
They're all flawed, the only question is can they do the job despite their weaknesses.
0 -
Mr. Thompson, Oborne is off his rocker, like Hitchens. Sometimes has an interesting insight, mostly barking mad.0
-
depends on the ward doesn't it? And skewed because Bearsden etc. are not in Glasgow to keep their council tax downAlistair said:
Not in Glasgow.CarlottaVance said:
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.0 -
I do apologise. On this occasion though, I had at least flagged it up with some tweets on Friday!AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.-1 -
People are laughing at him. Not with him.Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
NYT:
If anything, Mr. Trump’s videotaped statement was a truncated version of a speech that he had given countless times. And it did not reflect the several hours of conference calls and strategy meetings among his top aides, who were at first stunned and then nearly paralyzed by the revelation of the tape, which they worried would be fatal to his White House hopes.
“That took 10 hours?” an incredulous Kevin Madden, a Republican strategist, asked on CNN immediately after the statement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/politics/donald-trump-apology.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=00 -
It refers to MPs who want to overturn the British people's democratic decision in parliament, not Remain voters in general, many of whom have accepted the decision and have moved on.kle4 said:
The headline calls them the enemy within, so I don't see how his sentence is debunked - the headline is still part of the article, and the bit read by most people and sets the projected tone the editors want. Even though the piece is mor measured even if does also use the phrase enemy within.ThreeQuidder said:
Nice of you to debunk your first sentence in your second. It saves everyone else time.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
0 -
Yes, the same was said about Alf Garnett, except the reality was it was often the other way round.SirBernard said:
People are laughing at him. Not with him.Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Big like.DavidL said:
Blimey, that's better than Ben Stokes.MarqueeMark said:
I read recently that a child born today has a 50:50 chance of making it to 100....CarlottaVance said:
Life expectancy has improved a lot too - a baby boy born in 1945 had an average life expectancy of 63 - today its 79.......MarqueeMark said:
Yeah, but the population has aged a lot since Churchill and Attlee. Apples and oranges....AlastairMeeks said:
A sudden change. If Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May contest a 2020 election, they will have the oldest combined age of the two main party leaders at an election since Churchill and Attlee.MarqueeMark said:
A sudden change - or a reversion to the norm, after the shiny smily youngness of Blair and Cameron proved less than satisfying?AlastairMeeks said:Confound you, David Herdson! I was putting together a piece on this very subject.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both older than their respective parties' nominees in 2000 are today. Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are both older than their respective party leaders at the 2001 general election are today.
Meanwhile, last year only one MP elected in mainland Britain in 2015 had a party leader who was aged over 50, and even that party leader had only just passed that milestone.
In Britain at least, this is a sudden change.0 -
so it's ok to laugh at the mentally disadvantaged ? Shame on you doc !foxinsoxuk said:
As I recall the show Jay is a pathological liar and fantasist, and the joke is that he is actually sexually inadequate and never had a girlfriend.Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
"For Clinton, it is an embarrassing revelation that strikes to her greatest vulnerability: that she can’t be trusted, doesn’t mean what she says and is too close to the big banks—all at a time when she is struggling to generate enthusiasm among the young progressives who backed Sanders over her in the primary.
Perhaps the most damaging to Clinton—and most validating to Sanders—will be her fawning speeches about Wall Street—to Wall Street. In her remarks, Clinton appears to prove Bernie right. At a Goldman Sachs symposium in 2013, Clinton said that when she began traveling as Secretary of State, people would “yell at me for the United States and our banking system” causing the financial crisis.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/07/leaked-podesta-emails-show-bernie-was-right.html?via=desktop&source=twitter0 -
This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.0 -
Quite so.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
0 -
David,DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.CarlottaVance said:
Quite a few have accepted the verdict & moved on.Alanbrooke said:
is there any other type of Remainer than "embittered"CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?
The people have spoken, the barstewards, now make the best of it.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there.
0 -
Another thought on topic: It's quite common for parties that are in office to trend towards gerontocracy. This happens because taking over while in government is largely down to getting insider support, and nobbling opponents, which can better be done if you build up experience and connections.
The development that needs explaining is that in the US and the UK, *oppositions* are nominating old people. Not only are they nominating old people, they're nominating old people who look laughably doomed with the general electorate.
I guess one possibility is simply that centrism has reigned for a long time, so when the respective opposition parties abruptly decided to finally embrace their ids, there wasn't much of an id-embracing pool of young politicians to choose from, so they ended up reverting to people from a previous generation.0 -
It will do him some damage but not kill him off. I have little interest in WH16 as their both crap candidates. i cant help but think it will come down to do uninspired Democrats outnumber fired up Trumpites. Democrats dont really have much to get them out and voting and nor do a large slice of Republicans. It will come down to who has the bigger tribe of people who can be arsed.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
0 -
There a fair number of political and business leaders who I could imagine would make similar boasts to their friends.Dromedary said:
I've heard men talk about women in disgusting ways. The worst was when I was on a jury and another member was describing how he'd done jury service before and how much he enjoyed watching a female witness squirm in that other case as she was cross-examined about what happened to her. He didn't say it to me; he said it to another bloke who he assumed didn't mind. Yes, blokes in groups can be vile, the way they talk. But I've never heard a man boast about how he grabs lots of women's genitals without them wanting it.Sean_F said:Alanbrooke said:
I've sometimes heard similar discussions. I find it crude and coarse, but then we know that Trump is a crude and coarse man, and so presumably, do his voters.SirBernard said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.Alanbrooke said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.619 said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?PlatoSaid said:
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to win
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Not just city centres. Watch out for universities too:Alanbrooke said:
Broad Street at the weekends ? frankly I wouldnt let my daughters go there when they were teenagers.foxinsoxuk said:
So that you are saying that Jess Phillips is right about what a night out in Birmingham is like? Women being touched up by groping men etc?Alanbrooke said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/07/scale-of-sexual-abuse-in-uk-universities-likened-to-savile-and-catholic-scandals
0 -
That is true. Trump's outsider status is a positive for many, although given all his other flaws, it makes it that much harder to judge his ability to do the job despite those flaws, and there are many. Hilary I can seen being a middling to a very crap president, but there's something to base that on besides personal virtues and flaws.Alanbrooke said:
They're all flawed, the only question is can they do the job despite their weaknesses.
I know I would have. I was physically ill the night of the referendum, probably a coincidence, but I would have been hugely emotionally affected.DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.0 -
Yes, I think that's right. And of course, what was a dream for such Remainers was a nightmare for people like me.DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.CarlottaVance said:
Quite a few have accepted the verdict & moved on.Alanbrooke said:
is there any other type of Remainer than "embittered"CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?
The people have spoken, the barstewards, now make the best of it.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.0 -
And would be condemned for doing so publicly beyond their friends and fellow offenders.Sean_F said:
There a fair number of political and business leaders who I could imagine would make similar boasts to their friends.Dromedary said:
I've heard men talk about women in disgusting ways. The worst was when I was on a jury and another member was describing how he'd done jury service before and how much he enjoyed watching a female witness squirm in that other case as she was cross-examined about what happened to her. He didn't say it to me; he said it to another bloke who he assumed didn't mind. Yes, blokes in groups can be vile, the way they talk. But I've never heard a man boast about how he grabs lots of women's genitals without them wanting it.Sean_F said:Alanbrooke said:
I've sometimes heard similar discussions. I find it crude and coarse, but then we know that Trump is a crude and coarse man, and so presumably, do his voters.SirBernard said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.Alanbrooke said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.619 said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?PlatoSaid said:
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to win
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
Beautifully put. That's a great post.DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.CarlottaVance said:
Quite a few have accepted the verdict & moved on.Alanbrooke said:
is there any other type of Remainer than "embittered"CarlottaVance said:
embittered Tory Remainers led by ex-chancellor George Osborne are already threatening to subvert the referendum result in the Commons.YellowSubmarine said:Beautifully crafted editorial in today's Daily Mail calling Remain voters " the enemy within ". Of course when you reread it in outrage it never quite says that explicitly. It's beautifully written to provide plausible deniability but the psychological effect is clear. They call remain voters " the enemy within ". Interesting Zeitgeist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3828041/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Theresa-s-bold-vision-enemy-within.html
Remind you of anyone?
The people have spoken, the barstewards, now make the best of it.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.0 -
Plenty of woment out there have made similar allegations - It is question of whether Trump can justify this - after all he can now claim that the Democrats have instigated sexual misdemeanours into the campaign. (OK it was the media but everyone knows the media are Clinton Shills.logical_song said:
2. If he makes allegations against Bill could the lawyers become involved?619 said:
2. He already said in his apology video how he will talk about bill clinton sexually assaulting women and hillary helping him.JackW said:A few thoughts on pussygate ... Sorry @plato ....
1. Debate 2 television audience on Sunday might be ever so slightly "bigly".
2. How nuclear will Donald go in Deabte 2 ?
3. Slight Pence debate momentum now stone dead.
4. How many down ballot GOP candidates will throw Trump overboard. And related :
5. From now to election day GOP candidates will hounded because of their Trump endorsements
6. How many more CBS tapes and others are there to come ?
7. Clinton is 45th POTUS but by what margin and what of Senate and House implications?
4. Utah's have already said he should resign. if he goes through with 2, the rest of the GOP may go through on ir
6. There is definitely one where he uses a unmitigiated racial slur which will probably be released in a week or so if he somehow gets momentum back going.0 -
It was honestly one of the stressful nights of my life and I had been at polling stations from 7am to getting turnout figures at closing and knocking up most of the afternoon and evening. I have never worked so hard for anything political or cared so much.kle4 said:
That is true. Trump's outsider status is a positive for many, although given all his other flaws, it makes it that much harder to judge his ability to do the job despite those flaws, and there are many. Hilary I can seen being a middling to a very crap president, but there's something to base that on besides personal virtues and flaws.Alanbrooke said:
They're all flawed, the only question is can they do the job despite their weaknesses.
I know I would have. I was physically ill the night of the referendum, probably a coincidence, but I would have been hugely emotionally affected.DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.
By comparison I didn't care that much about the EU. I thought it was heading in the wrong direction and it was in our interests to make our own way sooner or later even if that caused some short term turbulence, which always seemed likely. But if it had not happened this year it seemed inevitable that it would happen in the next 10 and I was not that fussed about waiting.0 -
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.
0 -
There was a good reason for the old moral code that prized virginity until marriage, treatefmen and women as having different roles in life with chivalrous behaviour encouraged and had things like gender segregated colleges at universities.SouthamObserver said:
Not just city centres. Watch out for universities too:Alanbrooke said:
Broad Street at the weekends ? frankly I wouldnt let my daughters go there when they were teenagers.foxinsoxuk said:
So that you are saying that Jess Phillips is right about what a night out in Birmingham is like? Women being touched up by groping men etc?Alanbrooke said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/07/scale-of-sexual-abuse-in-uk-universities-likened-to-savile-and-catholic-scandals
St Augustine, St Paul and co understood rather more about base human flawed nature, especially regarding the sexual urge, than modern progressives do. Unfortunately our young women are discovering that their so called sexual liberation is like a city taking down its walls while the barbarians are camped outside.0 -
I haven't laughed so much since Jezza's reshuffle
"Breaking News: Yes, this is for real. >>>John Podesta has been in communication with aliens. #Wikileaks https://t.co/AZccazbP7U0 -
Yep, the independence referendum was far more stressful than the EU. If that had gone the other way, I would have felt that I had lost a part of myself. The EU referendum was much more abstract. Funnily enough, though, if there were a second indy referendum I don't think I would be that engaged with it. So much has changed over the last two years that in many ways the break up of the UK would just seem like the final, inevitable act of the drama.DavidL said:
It was honestly one of the stressful nights of my life and I had been at polling stations from 7am to getting turnout figures at closing and knocking up most of the afternoon and evening. I have never worked so hard for anything political or cared so much.kle4 said:
That is true. Trump's outsider status is a positive for many, although given all his other flaws, it makes it that much harder to judge his ability to do the job despite those flaws, and there are many. Hilary I can seen being a middling to a very crap president, but there's something to base that on besides personal virtues and flaws.Alanbrooke said:
They're all flawed, the only question is can they do the job despite their weaknesses.
I know I would have. I was physically ill the night of the referendum, probably a coincidence, but I would have been hugely emotionally affected.DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing. They now fear an introverted Britain blocking itself off from the rest of the world with its own slightly odd obsessions. It is how you see yourself and your country and the economic news good or bad are just tools for the argument.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.
By comparison I didn't care that much about the EU. I thought it was heading in the wrong direction and it was in our interests to make our own way sooner or later even if that caused some short term turbulence, which always seemed likely. But if it had not happened this year it seemed inevitable that it would happen in the next 10 and I was not that fussed about waiting.
0 -
Yes, I'm sure women long once again for the days when they were chattel to be traded.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
There was a good reason for the old moral code that prized virginity until marriage, treatefmen and women as having different roles in life with chivalrous behaviour encouraged and had things like gender segregated colleges at universities.
St Augustine, St Paul and co understood rather more about base human flawed nature, especially regarding the sexual urge, than modern progressives do. Unfortunately our young women are discovering that their so called sexual liberation is like a city taking down its walls while the barbarians are camped outside.0 -
I think that what most of us would consider to be character flaws are the kinds of traits that help propel people into positions of leadership, and then they're in a position where they can satisfy their urges.SouthamObserver said:
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.
Trump is disgusting, for sure. I actually think that 50 years ago, he could not have got away with being so brazen about it.0 -
Again that nails my own thoughts exactly. The week before #indyref I was out walking with a view of Scotland and actually cried. The sense of impending bereavement was immense. I fell a bit of this with with my European Citizenship but it's nowhere near as powerful. However now in #indyref2 I would be neutral. I wouldn't welcome or wish for the death of Britain. It would be a tragedy. But it would feel like the final act of a tragedy already in play and doomed to reach that conclusion. The sense that both my europeaness and Britishness and now unraveling is why I feel so strongly.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, the independence referendum was far more stressful than the EU. If that had gone the other way, I would have felt that I had lost a part of myself. The EU referendum was much more abstract. Funnily enough, though, if there were a second indy referendum I don't think I would be that engaged with it. So much has changed over the last two years that in many ways the break up of the UK would just seem like the final, inevitable act of the drama.DavidL said:
It was honestly one of the stressful nights of my life and I had been at polling stations from 7am to getting turnout figures at closing and knocking up most of the afternoon and evening. I have never worked so hard for anything political or cared so much.kle4 said:Alanbrooke said:
They're all flawed, the only question is can they do the job despite their weaknesses.
I know I would have. I was physically ill the night of the referendum, probably a coincidence, but I would have been hugely emotionally affected.DavidL said:
I kinda get where these remainers are coming from. The battlefield is economic but that is not what this is about. It is about their vision of Britain. They saw a Britain that formed an important part of the EU, that was ever more European in its outlook and behaviour and thought that this was a good and civilising thing.
If Sindy had gone the other way I would have felt exactly the same, no doubt pointing out every calamity which fell upon Scotland demonstrated how people got it wrong but doing so because I had lost a very important part of my sense of self. Would I have come to terms eventually? It would have taken a hell of a lot longer than this.
By comparison I didn't care that much about the EU. I thought it was heading in the wrong direction and it was in our interests to make our own way sooner or later even if that caused some short term turbulence, which always seemed likely. But if it had not happened this year it seemed inevitable that it would happen in the next 10 and I was not that fussed about waiting.0 -
also, Jay is 17. Not 59.foxinsoxuk said:
As I recall the show Jay is a pathological liar and fantasist, and the joke is that he is actually sexually inadequate and never had a girlfriend.Alanbrooke said:
If you watch the Inbetweeners millions tune in to listen to Jay say the same thing and laugh their heads off.SirBernard said:
I know people are tribal in politics, but I didn't think in the 21st Century people would defend a man boasting of sexual assault. It turns out I was wrong.kle4 said:
Quite. Is not doing that really middle class? Reminds me of clarksons firing, and how apparently people getting punched is a perfectly regular occurrence in practically all jobs according to some, when outside of MEP meetings I think actually 'taking it outside' and not just mouthing off is uncommon.SirBernard said:
Men saying how certain women are hot and they'd like to sleep with them is common place. Men saying how they grab women's genitalia out of the blue, and they can get away with it because they're high status, is very much not normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've seen so many men on Twitter asserting they've been in the forces etc and never heard such language blah blah. I heard it working in a sales offices and with blokes down the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
a) he was behind anyway so this doesnt help him get back women he needs to winPlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
b) The RNC are clearly about to abandon him and just concentrate on other races. He doesnt have his own GOTV
c) so blokes talk about how they grab women's pussy without their permission in a rapey way in your office? Wow!
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia0 -
women and minorities very much dont want to have trump as presidentAlanbrooke said:
It will do him some damage but not kill him off. I have little interest in WH16 as their both crap candidates. i cant help but think it will come down to do uninspired Democrats outnumber fired up Trumpites. Democrats dont really have much to get them out and voting and nor do a large slice of Republicans. It will come down to who has the bigger tribe of people who can be arsed.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
0 -
Yes. I haven't heard anyone else speak like that either. I think if one wanted to find such men, prison would be the best place to look - and not the ordinary wings, but the nonce wings, which house men who are segregated from other prisoners under Rule 45.SouthamObserver said:
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.
0 -
The problem for the Tories is with the media.
A clear narrative has formed about Theresa May’s Tories as people who will sacrifice almost everything – the economy, living standards, whatever – to get rid of migrants.
It will be the prism through which journalists seek to explain the government to their audience and shape what the public sees and reads about the May administration. A prism which casts an image that vividly brings to life the prejudice and aloof indifference encapsulated in Labour’s most potent attack on the Conservatives: same old Tories.
Theresa May is lucky in that Jeremy Corbyn is her opponent. She won’t lose to him in any scenario, no matter what he does with his shadow cabinet reshuffle or how badly she performs.
But at some point he won’t be leader. She, however, will still be the PM who made everyone poorer because she hates foreigners.
That’s quite a brand.
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2016/10/06/the-tories-dont-realise-it-yet-but-their-conference-was-a-disaster/0 -
That old moral code that overlooked the serial sexual abuse of children, marital rape and domestic violence, and that denied women even the most basic rights? You seem to be suggesting that religions and societies that seek to keep men and women apart, and which assign them different roles, have it right.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
There was a good reason for the old moral code that prized virginity until marriage, treatefmen and women as having different roles in life with chivalrous behaviour encouraged and had things like gender segregated colleges at universities.SouthamObserver said:
Not just city centres. Watch out for universities too:Alanbrooke said:
Broad Street at the weekends ? frankly I wouldnt let my daughters go there when they were teenagers.foxinsoxuk said:
So that you are saying that Jess Phillips is right about what a night out in Birmingham is like? Women being touched up by groping men etc?Alanbrooke said:
suggest you get out more. Blokes in groups are a wonder to behold across all ages.SirBernard said:
Men normal.Alanbrooke said:
c - just how young and upper middle class are you ?619 said:PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
.
There's women too.
Lots of posturing and fauxrage. I think it may knock off a few points for a few days, but it's mostly factored in for someone like Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington Democrat"PlatoSaid said:I honestly think that those jumping up and down are almost all already Hillary voters.
I've the pub.
There's the whole Sex in the City culture of women too.
Lots of Trump.
In the meantime, this is the most creative spin of the night
Washington State Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchison defends Trump comments, says they "were made when he was a Democrat"
blokes mouthing off has been pretty standard for the last couple of millenia
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/07/scale-of-sexual-abuse-in-uk-universities-likened-to-savile-and-catholic-scandals
St Augustine, St Paul and co understood rather more about base human flawed nature, especially regarding the sexual urge, than modern progressives do. Unfortunately our young women are discovering that their so called sexual liberation is like a city taking down its walls while the barbarians are camped outside.
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I've googled "Jay" and "Trump" to find out who you are talking about and all that's come up is stuff concerning the 1965 Grand National.0
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The behaviour of JFK was far worse than anything Trump could even imagine but if he boasted about it (and he almost certainly did) he did not do it on camera and "civilised" society didn't talk about such things. I think we have made a lot of progress in female equality and respect in those 50 years and Trump seems a throw back to an unhappier time.Sean_F said:
I think that what most of us would consider to be character flaws are the kinds of traits that help propel people into positions of leadership, and then they're in a position where they can satisfy their urges.SouthamObserver said:
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.
Trump is disgusting, for sure. I actually think that 50 years ago, he could not have got away with being so brazen about it.0 -
You would expect the daughter comment to have seen to it that he came last in the primaries, especially in a country that is still quite puritanical in some ways. It didn't.SouthamObserver said:
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.
Peoples despising of progressivism and all it stands for er Trumped it. We like to think that we are more civilized than the head and handchoppers, forced wife keepers and homosexual throwers of Syria. Alas we are not.
The Christian moral code suppressed such behaviour so well that progressives thought that modern man was different and that Christianity and its moral code that so constrained the rich and powerful from doing andn shagging as and who they wish could safely be thrown under the bus.
Now the whirlwind is being reaped. Trump probably wont win, it is what will replace Hillary after another four or eight years of the same progressivusm and rising anger of the deplorables that you should fear.0 -
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Both of you have a diminished sense of being British and feel less in tune with your countrymen after the referendum. I can imagine how much that hurts and genuinely hope it gets better without in any way seeking to belittle the sense of loss.YellowSubmarine said:
Again that nails my own thoughts exactly. The week before #indyref I was out walking with a view of Scotland and actually cried. The sense of impending bereavement was immense. I fell a bit of this with with my European Citizenship but it's nowhere near as powerful. However now in #indyref2 I would be neutral. I wouldn't welcome or wish for the death of Britain. It would be a tragedy. But it would feel like the final act of a tragedy already in play and doomed to reach that conclusion. The sense that both my europeaness and Britishness and now unraveling is why I feel so strongly.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, the independence referendum was far more stressful than the EU. If that had gone the other way, I would have felt that I had lost a part of myself. The EU referendum was much more abstract. Funnily enough, though, if there were a second indy referendum I don't think I would be that engaged with it. So much has changed over the last two years that in many ways the break up of the UK would just seem like the final, inevitable act of the drama.DavidL said:
It was honestly one of the stressful nights of my life and I had been at polling stations from 7am to getting turnout figures at closing and knocking up most of the afternoon and evening. I have never worked so hard for anything political or cared so much.kle4 said:Alanbrooke said:
.
I know I would have. I was physically ill the night of the referendum, probably a coincidence, but I would have been hugely emotionally affected.DavidL said:
.
By comparison I didn't care that much about the EU. I thought it was heading in the wrong direction and it was in our interests to make our own way sooner or later even if that caused some short term turbulence, which always seemed likely. But if it had not happened this year it seemed inevitable that it would happen in the next 10 and I was not that fussed about waiting.0 -
I admire your fight, I really do. But I have decided to come to terms with the fact that I am in a minority and there is nothing much I can do about it. I believe what I believe, but most people do not agree with me. That's life. Being right is but small compensation ;-)YellowSubmarine said:
Again that nails my own thoughts exactly. The week before #indyref I was out walking with a view of Scotland and actually cried. The sense of impending bereavement was immense. I fell a bit of this with with my European Citizenship but it's nowhere near as powerful. However now in #indyref2 I would be neutral. I wouldn't welcome or wish for the death of Britain. It would be a tragedy. But it would feel like the final act of a tragedy already in play and doomed to reach that conclusion. The sense that both my europeaness and Britishness and now unraveling is why I feel so strongly.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, the independence referendum was far more stressful than the EU. If that had gone the other way, I would have felt that I had lost a part of myself. The EU referendum was much more abstract. Funnily enough, though, if there were a second indy referendum I don't think I would be that engaged with it. So much has changed over the last two years that in many ways the break up of the UK would just seem like the final, inevitable act of the drama.DavidL said:
It much.kle4 said:Alanbrooke said:
They're all flawed, the only question is can they do the job despite their weaknesses.
I know I would have. I was physically ill the night of the referendum, probably a coincidence, but I would have been hugely emotionally affected.DavidL said:
I kinda get thing.
If than this.
By fussed about waiting.
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If May and Corbyn make it to the election it will be the oldest PM/Leader of the Opposition face off since Churchill and Attlee in 1951.0
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*Betting Post* Steven Woolfe under pressure to drop Ukip leadership bid
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/08/steven-woolfe-under-pressure-to-drop-ukip-leadership-bid?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/784663190609268736SouthamObserver said:I admire your fight, I really do. But I have decided to come to terms with the fact that I am in a minority and there is nothing much I can do about it. I believe what I believe, but most people do not agree with me. That's life. Being right is but small compensation ;-)
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green cheese therematt said:
Nope, they hung around behaving in the entitled way that one has come to expect from that generation.tlg86 said:Interesting piece as ever, David. I would suggest that May and Hammond partly reflect the fact that the Tories skipped a generation when they chose Cameron over Davis. The skipped generation didn't just go away.
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In a way, that's my point. JFK could brag about his behaviour to friends, and enjoy shocking Macmillan over it, but had he said the things that Trump publicly that Trump has said, he'd never have got his party's nomination. Celebrity culture and reality TV have normalised the behaviour of people like Trump.DavidL said:
The behaviour of JFK was far worse than anything Trump could even imagine but if he boasted about it (and he almost certainly did) he did not do it on camera and "civilised" society didn't talk about such things. I think we have made a lot of progress in female equality and respect in those 50 years and Trump seems a throw back to an unhappier time.Sean_F said:
I think that what most of us would consider to be character flaws are the kinds of traits that help propel people into positions of leadership, and then they're in a position where they can satisfy their urges.SouthamObserver said:
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.
Trump is disgusting, for sure. I actually think that 50 years ago, he could not have got away with being so brazen about it.0 -
It is also why Thomas Mair is being tried at the Old Bailey for a crime committed in Yorkshire. Clearly the DPP doesn't trust a Yorkshire jury.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
You would expect the daughter comment to have seen to it that he came last in the primaries, especially in a country that is still quite puritanical in some ways. It didn't.SouthamObserver said:
There have been people like Trump since time immemorial. All that has happened over the last 50 years is that it has become less acceptable for them to be so brazen about it. Most men do not speak about or think about women in the way that Trump does, even the serial adulterers. I have been out on the lash plenty of times, I have been in plenty of dressing rooms, heard a lot of bawdy and frankly unpleasant talk - I have engaged in it myself, I am sure - but the only man who I have ever heard speak about his daughter in a sexual way is Trump. He clearly has issues.Paul_Bedfordshire said:This should kill Trump. I have a feeling though that it won't and the USA are about to discover that a lot of people, both men and women are little different from their medieval, counterparts and all 50 years of progressive social engineering has done is force them to keep their views underground while seethe with resentment at having to do so.
The progressives threw Christianity and its moral code under the bus and tried to replace it with one that was more authoritarian and less understanding of the best and worst of human nature. The result is behaviour like Trumps and someone like him being in the last two for president. If he dosent win, someone far worse will win before too long.
Peoples despising of progressivism and all it stands for er Trumped it. We like to think that we are more civilized than the head and handchoppers, forced wife keepers and homosexual throwers of Syria. Alas we are not.
The Christian moral code suppressed such behaviour so well that progressives thought that modern man was different and that Christianity and its moral code that so constrained the rich and powerful from doing andn shagging as and who they wish could safely be thrown under the bus.
Now the whirlwind is being reaped. Trump probably wont win, it is what will replace Hillary after another four or eight years of the same progressivusm and rising anger of the deplorables that you should fear.
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Most of that came about as a result of the breakdown of that code - more technoloically driven than philosophy driven - after the industrial revolution first created large settlements where people could act more anonymously without retribution from village elders and later mechanised home chores meaning that it was no longer essential that one person worked full time domestically in every house.SouthamObserver said:<
That old moral code that overlooked the serial sexual abuse of children, marital rape and domestic violence, and that denied women even the most basic rights? You seem to be suggesting that religions and societies that seek to keep men and women apart, and which assign them different roles, have it right.
The sixties progressive conceit is that what they have replaced the old code with all its flaws with is better and dosent have far bigger flaws, most of which will only appear in the longer term as self restraint of people under the old moral code dies out.0 -
So it's her fault we voted to LEAVE, not say, Cameron's botched renegotiation, or Labour's far from convincing support for Remain?Scott_P said:the PM who made everyone poorer because she hates foreigners.
Glad we cleared that up.....0 -
The vast, vast majority of Remain voters are patriots who accept a democratic decision has been reached. Even Vince Cable seems to be in this group.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Submarine, if accurate, that's disturbing.
Whilst I do think a small minority of Remain voters are clapping their hands with glee at any prospect of bad news, the vast majority have simply accepted the referendum result and want the best deal between the UK and EU.
However, this isn't a one way street. We've had the woeful misreporting of a murder of a Polish man attributed to the vote, a rise in reported hate crimes [stupid term] but no rise in successful prosecutions, and general doom-mongering.
There's a risk that the more zealous elements on either side proclaim Leavers to be racists and Remainers to be traitors. Again, slightly reminiscent of the intra-city conflicts between those supporting democracy and oligarchy during the Peloponnesian War.
Really, the argument now is between Hard Brexit, and Harder Brexit. (And soon Brexit With a Vengence.)0
