politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is George Osborne the answer to Brexit?
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Does May have the votes? Ken C has already said he will vote it down. Anna Soubry most likely will follow. Osborne might stick the knife in. LibDems vote down. I guess if it is tricky the Ulster guys will rescue her.foxinsoxuk said:
A touch of hyperbole perhaps.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
If the judiciary succeed in blocking Brexit, the best case is UKIP emulating the SNP s 2015 performance in most of England, the worst case is civil war.Monksfield said:
Do we have any idea of the proportion of Tory MP's that would be vehemently opposed to a hard Brexit. That is, WTO rules at best? Those that would prefer in to hard brexit, and might vote against a hard brexit package in a commons vote?NickPalmer said:Good article and nice to see Casino joining the panel of above-the-line writers.
I think Osborne has chosen a not-very-veiled oppositional role and May does not go in for rewarding that, so I suspect it'll be a while before his chance comes - if May becomes very unpopular, though, he might be seen as a useful reinforcement and/or possible replacement.
The judiciary may yet force this.
Simply would need Parliament passing a law activating article 50. At worst it would be a delay of a few months.0 -
With a great deal of respect, I don't think that suggestions that we bomb mainland Europe were being made entirely seriously. The only actual policy suggestion I see here is to reduce the size of the state to pre WW1 levels. I look upon that with an open mind. It is obvious to me, if sadly to few others that the size of our state compared with the pay packet we earn from the rest of the world is grossly distended.viewcode said:
Well, there was that whole discussion about wanting to bomb the Europeans, by ourselves[5] or with the Russians[4], redefining Nato to disinclude the Europeans[1][2][3], then rolling back the Wilson/Jenkins/Mandelson/Crosland reforms[6]Luckyguy1983 said:
What policies?JosiasJessop said:'Leave' for them will mean not just leaving the EU, but a whole raft of regressive policies.
[1] this
[2] this
[3] this
[4] this
[5] this
[6] this0 -
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)0 -
<
I did have a couple later in the evening, but you might want to read up on Poes Law.viewcode said:
Pisstaking hyperbole may reveal what a person really thinks in his heart. You made references to bottles of Cobra. Were you drinking at the time? (You don't have to tell me if you don't want to, it's a honest question)Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Most of which was pisstaking hyperbole.viewcode said:
Well, there was that whole discussion about wanting to bomb the Europeans, by ourselves[5] or with the Russians[4], redefining Nato to disinclude the Europeans[1][2][3], then rolling back the Wilson/Jenkins/Mandelson/Crosland reforms[6]Luckyguy1983 said:
What policies?JosiasJessop said:'Leave' for them will mean not just leaving the EU, but a whole raft of regressive policies.
[1] this
[2] this
[3] this
[4] this
[5] this
[6] this
If you look at my more serious posts, Im far more libertairian than authoritarian and favour soft Brexit (partly because it will get most of what I want, partly because I cant get very worked up about immigration).
However I grew up in late 70's early 80's Lambeth which has left an indelible dislike of the sanctimonious humourless over serious school on left and find it very tempting to say far fetched right wing things that a 1970s retired colonel would have come out with after a few snifters.
Partly to wind them up, partly to play devils advocate.
I do though think the state is far too big and interferes far too much in day to day affairs risking infantilising everyone which is why I have some sympathy with the US gun lobby views - altbough Im not sure such free access to weapons is entirely wise.
I also as a Christian dislike the growing anti christian sentiments and seculsrism, but also dislike people like Osbornes attitude to the poor. The only poor people travel by bus mentality.
I suppose Im a brain full of contradictions.0 -
I think gambling generally no (or yes but it's not enforced?), but running a gambling service for Americans yes. There are a couple of exchanges out there like Iowa Electronic Markets and Predict It (?) that are sort-of low-stakes research projects that got letters from the relevant regulators saying they wouldn't come after them if they adhered to particular conditions, but these conditions make them less interesting than say Betfair.viewcode said:While I'm here, quick question: is gambling on the presidential election actually illegal in the United States? If so, is it a state or federal crime and what are the specific laws? I'm seeing references to illegality online, but I don't now if it's old legislation or just limited to Nevada
Intrade apparently used to be Ireland-based but accessible to Americans, and IIUC they went pretty much unmolested until they started doing things like oil contracts that were very clearly in the remit of the CFTC.0 -
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)0 -
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.
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Putin....
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Meanwhile, this article seems clear-eyed to me about the challenges facing Theresa May:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/17/theresa-may-needs-to-make-her-peace-with-the-tory-liberals/0 -
Supplies of popcorn to run out across whole of UK next weekend, warns Dan Hodges:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3794798/Labour-MPs-way-trial-says-Dan-Hodges.html0 -
Trump is loud and uncouth, but better that then a president with a neurological disease of some type methinks.0
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Why not Caligula? It's all a bit half hearted unless you are a journalist.Scrapheap_as_was said:Putin....
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TBF that's a legitimate lol619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)0 -
I thought everyone voted Leave in order to stop 4 million Turkish workers moving to the UK next year?PClipp said:
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.0 -
It was gettung the navy to shell them not tbe air force to bomb them and it was intended to be a satire on.Luckyguy1983 said:
With a great deal of respect, I don't think that suggestions that we bomb mainland Europe were being made entirely seriously. The only actual policy suggestion I see here is to reduce the size of the state to pre WW1 levels. I look upon that with an open mind. It is obvious to me, if sadly to few others that the size of our state compared with the pay packet we earn from the rest of the world is grossly distended.viewcode said:
Well, there was that whole discussion about wanting to bomb the Europeans, by ourselves[5] or with the Russians[4], redefining Nato to disinclude the Europeans[1][2][3], then rolling back the Wilson/Jenkins/Mandelson/Crosland reforms[6]Luckyguy1983 said:
What policies?JosiasJessop said:'Leave' for them will mean not just leaving the EU, but a whole raft of regressive policies.
[1] this
[2] this
[3] this
[4] this
[5] this
[6] this
* That these negotiations will need us to go in with backbone and be prepared to be ruthless in the national interests
* how the UK set about negotiating trade agreements in the 18/19th century (we literally did send gunboats to shell their cities if they wouldnt co-operate).
* Mocking the EUs grand statements while they all (except possibly France) dont pull their weight in Nato but expect us to bail them out if that comes home to roost under article 5.0 -
For anyone who hasn't seen this superb docu on 9/11 - you've missed an extraordinary moment of TV. No commentary, all raw footage from those on scene - minute by minute. I wanted the ad breaks to come just for a chance to catch my breath/take hand from mouth.weejonnie said:
So 2500 people died on 11/9 due to an intentional act. Yeh.FrancisUrquhart said:
The hand wringers say that terrorism doesn't have an internationally recognized consistent definition so we can't call these attacks terrorism....instead we get terms like "intentional acts".FeersumEnjineeya said:
It clearly is terrorism. How could the planting of multiple explosive devices in a populated area not be terrorism?nunu said:
Yes it would be very easy to say that.FrancisUrquhart said:Mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio, said that "all hands are on deck" in the city.
"We also want to be up front in saying that there is no evidence at this point of a terror connection to this incident," he added.
What a stupid thing to say...you don't just find several IEDs in a major city just from some one larking about. I think what he really means to say is no connection to Islamic terrorism at this stage.
You won't regret it - it really brings 911 to life - I watched it again yesterday ust hours before, and totally get the reaction to #NYCExplosion terror.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/102-minutes-that-changed-america/on-demand/47742-0010 -
That's risible handwaving. He said it - you know it, and just don't like it.foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)0 -
Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/0 -
I suspect the problem in these two statements/queries is the word 'everyone'rottenborough said:
I thought everyone voted Leave in order to stop 4 million Turkish workers moving to the UK next year?PClipp said:
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.
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@politicshome: Douglas Carswell: Nigel Farage's tactics cost Ukip up to 11 Commons seats - https://t.co/KaBIY6tDam https://t.co/eayouQmZK40
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What 'racist' comments - and by that I mean genuine racist rather than comments that the liberal press cease upon as being 'racist' i.e. something they don't like?619 said:
'loud and uncouth'? erratic dangerous racist prick more like. And clinton doesnt have a neurological diseasePulpstar said:Trump is loud and uncouth, but better that then a president with a neurological disease of some type methinks.
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@PClipp
'I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding? '
Youv'e obviously changed your mind as previously everybody that voted Leave was a racist & xenophobe.0 -
So he mentioned in a book several years after the event of the 1993 bombing and 1997 conviction of radical Islamists in court that other Islamists might want to blow up buildings.PlatoSaid said:
That's risible handwaving. He said it - you know it, and just don't like it.foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
The man must be a clairvoyant genius or was part of the Zionist/NWO/Lizard/holographic plot for 9/11.0 -
I decided to speak my mind rather than conform to the PB Sneering as I think it's more smug groupthink. If we can't speak honestly on a political forum - what's the point?Pulpstar said:Trump is loud and uncouth, but better that then a president with a neurological disease of some type methinks.
Mr Jones who was a very interesting poster made some excellent points and had at times voted BNP in great frustration. He was shouted down and left. And then a load of revolting stuff came out re Rotherham. Wrapping oneself in a self-righteous comfort blanket is no different to any other tribe too blinkered to appreciate that not everyone feels like they do.
I still can't get over how many Remainers who'd accused Chris Grayling of being more stupid than a pot plant for years, suddenly became a serious appt when he backed their preferred leader choice.
There's far too much of it on here - and as @HurstLlama has noted, more often than not - the groupthink is entirely wrong.0 -
the whole birther thing. and saying all mexican immigrants are rapists. and saying he appreciates david dukes vote. and that he wants to ban muslims. And saying mrs khan isnt allowed to speak on stage. I think acting like he hasnt been a massive racist is unfeasible.weejonnie said:
What 'racist' comments - and by that I mean genuine racist rather than comments that the liberal press cease upon as being 'racist' i.e. something they don't like?619 said:
'loud and uncouth'? erratic dangerous racist prick more like. And clinton doesnt have a neurological diseasePulpstar said:Trump is loud and uncouth, but better that then a president with a neurological disease of some type methinks.
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May has a cabinet of all the talents!AlastairMeeks said:Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/
Indeed Private Eye had it spot on with their cover:
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/current-issue0 -
Of course we can't speculate on people's motives, but we can state with certainty that 'everyone' was given campaign material like this from the official Leave campaign.MTimT said:
I suspect the problem in these two statements/queries is the word 'everyone'rottenborough said:
I thought everyone voted Leave in order to stop 4 million Turkish workers moving to the UK next year?PClipp said:
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.
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I suspect, if a vote were held, it would go like many in the US Senate. Once the counting were done, a certain number would be 'allowed' to vote their conscience while still ensuring the bill passed.rottenborough said:
Does May have the votes? Ken C has already said he will vote it down. Anna Soubry most likely will follow. Osborne might stick the knife in. LibDems vote down. I guess if it is tricky the Ulster guys will rescue her.foxinsoxuk said:
A touch of hyperbole perhaps.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
If the judiciary succeed in blocking Brexit, the best case is UKIP emulating the SNP s 2015 performance in most of England, the worst case is civil war.Monksfield said:
Do we have any idea of the proportion of Tory MP's that would be vehemently opposed to a hard Brexit. That is, WTO rules at best? Those that would prefer in to hard brexit, and might vote against a hard brexit package in a commons vote?NickPalmer said:Good article and nice to see Casino joining the panel of above-the-line writers.
I think Osborne has chosen a not-very-veiled oppositional role and May does not go in for rewarding that, so I suspect it'll be a while before his chance comes - if May becomes very unpopular, though, he might be seen as a useful reinforcement and/or possible replacement.
The judiciary may yet force this.
Simply would need Parliament passing a law activating article 50. At worst it would be a delay of a few months.
I think enough Tories who are queasy about Brexit would be corralled into line, given that a general election in the aftermath of the Tories failing to deliver Brexit would not necessarily be the resounding success for the Tories that it might with Brexit in the bag. Those wavering Tory MPs will, no doubt, be made painfully aware of that. Along with other threats.0 -
It is an inevitable consequence of the Leave vote. The inferior calibre of the Leave politicians was inevitably going to impoverish the quality of government. Theresa May has exacerbated the problem by also settling scores entirely unnecessarily.foxinsoxuk said:
May has a cabinet of all the talents!AlastairMeeks said:Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/
Indeed Private Eye had it spot on with their cover:
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/current-issue0 -
Whatever happens May will not roll back the state to anywhere near WW1 levels, by the time she leaves office I still expect her government to be spending more than Blair's 1997-2001 government, let alone the government pre WW1Luckyguy1983 said:
With a great deal of respect, I don't think that suggestions that we bomb mainland Europe were being made entirely seriously. The only actual policy suggestion I see here is to reduce the size of the state to pre WW1 levels. I look upon that with an open mind. It is obvious to me, if sadly to few others that the size of our state compared with the pay packet we earn from the rest of the world is grossly distended.viewcode said:
Well, there was that whole discussion about wanting to bomb the Europeans, by ourselves[5] or with the Russians[4], redefining Nato to disinclude the Europeans[1][2][3], then rolling back the Wilson/Jenkins/Mandelson/Crosland reforms[6]Luckyguy1983 said:
What policies?JosiasJessop said:'Leave' for them will mean not just leaving the EU, but a whole raft of regressive policies.
[1] this
[2] this
[3] this
[4] this
[5] this
[6] this0 -
@Black_Rook
'The Lib Dem rump is very weak, and its remaining support is too evenly spread to allow it to make much progress in future Parliamentary elections. They are trying to carve out territory for themselves on the soft centre-left at the very moment when that segment of politics is in collapse: majority of the electorate is, broadly speaking, right or right-leaning, and most committed anti-Tory progressives show no signs of being interested in jumping ship from a more radical Labour Party. The available market share for a wet centrist, Europhile party simply isn't large enough for them to re-establish themselves as a force.'
As mentioned yesterday there is a niche for them at local government level organising bin collections & keeping public toilets open et al.
Their big hope that there would be Labour defections is not going to happen and they will remain a rump party at national level.0 -
Prudent Conservative opponents will not outright oppose but penelopise. Cunctators, as Leavers might well say.MTimT said:
I suspect, if a vote were held, it would go like many in the US Senate. Once the counting were done, a certain number would be 'allowed' to vote their conscience while still ensuring the bill passed.rottenborough said:
Does May have the votes? Ken C has already said he will vote it down. Anna Soubry most likely will follow. Osborne might stick the knife in. LibDems vote down. I guess if it is tricky the Ulster guys will rescue her.foxinsoxuk said:
A touch of hyperbole perhaps.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
If the judiciary succeed in blocking Brexit, the best case is UKIP emulating the SNP s 2015 performance in most of England, the worst case is civil war.Monksfield said:
Do we have any idea of the proportion of Tory MP's that would be vehemently opposed to a hard Brexit. That is, WTO rules at best? Those that would prefer in to hard brexit, and might vote against a hard brexit package in a commons vote?NickPalmer said:Good article and nice to see Casino joining the panel of above-the-line writers.
I think Osborne has chosen a not-very-veiled oppositional role and May does not go in for rewarding that, so I suspect it'll be a while before his chance comes - if May becomes very unpopular, though, he might be seen as a useful reinforcement and/or possible replacement.
The judiciary may yet force this.
Simply would need Parliament passing a law activating article 50. At worst it would be a delay of a few months.
I think enough Tories who are queasy about Brexit would be corralled into line, given that a general election in the aftermath of the Tories failing to deliver Brexit would not necessarily be the resounding success for the Tories that it might with Brexit in the bag. Those wavering Tory MPs will, no doubt, be made painfully aware of that. Along with other threats.0 -
New York landlords were very worried about terrorist attacks on buildings following the 1993 bombing. I know that we* gave a group of them a briefing on how either chemical or biological attacks might be perpetrated on skyscrapers in 1994. This was done at the landlords' request, not instigated by us. I assume they were just as proactive at understanding and taking countermeasures against other potential threats to their buildings and occupants.foxinsoxuk said:
So he mentioned in a book several years after the event of the 1993 bombing and 1997 conviction of radical Islamists in court that other Islamists might want to blow up buildings.PlatoSaid said:
That's risible handwaving. He said it - you know it, and just don't like it.foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
The man must be a clairvoyant genius or was part of the Zionist/NWO/Lizard/holographic plot for 9/11.
* UNSCOM = the UN weapon inspectors in Iraq.0 -
p.6 of said documentScott_p said:
A link to a document entitled "leaving_the_eu", which we haven't done yet...
An earlier HM Government document (HM Treasury analysis: the long-term economic impact of EU membership and the alternatives) considered the long-term economic impact of a vote to leave the EU by comparing continued membership with the alternatives described in the HM Government document (Alternatives to membership: possible models for the United Kingdom outside the European Union). It focused on a period of 15 years following the referendum, by which point the nature of the UK’s future relationship with the EU would be clear and the economy would have adjusted to the new economic reality. That document concluded that the UK would be permanently poorer if it left the EU and adopted any of these
alternative relationships.
That document did not consider the disruptive, short-term adjustment that would follow
a vote to leave.
The analysis in this HM Treasury document quantifies the impact of that adjustment over the immediate period of two years following a vote to leave.0 -
Watford 3 ManU 1 wtf.
ManU have 3 defeats in a week.0 -
Great post! I learnt two new words in two sentences. And I agree with you.AlastairMeeks said:
Prudent Conservative opponents will not outright oppose but penelopise. Cunctators, as Leavers might well say.MTimT said:
I suspect, if a vote were held, it would go like many in the US Senate. Once the counting were done, a certain number would be 'allowed' to vote their conscience while still ensuring the bill passed.rottenborough said:
Does May have the votes? Ken C has already said he will vote it down. Anna Soubry most likely will follow. Osborne might stick the knife in. LibDems vote down. I guess if it is tricky the Ulster guys will rescue her.foxinsoxuk said:
A touch of hyperbole perhaps.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
If the judiciary succeed in blocking Brexit, the best case is UKIP emulating the SNP s 2015 performance in most of England, the worst case is civil war.Monksfield said:
Do we have any idea of the proportion of Tory MP's that would be vehemently opposed to a hard Brexit. That is, WTO rules at best? Those that would prefer in to hard brexit, and might vote against a hard brexit package in a commons vote?NickPalmer said:Good article and nice to see Casino joining the panel of above-the-line writers.
I think Osborne has chosen a not-very-veiled oppositional role and May does not go in for rewarding that, so I suspect it'll be a while before his chance comes - if May becomes very unpopular, though, he might be seen as a useful reinforcement and/or possible replacement.
The judiciary may yet force this.
Simply would need Parliament passing a law activating article 50. At worst it would be a delay of a few months.
I think enough Tories who are queasy about Brexit would be corralled into line, given that a general election in the aftermath of the Tories failing to deliver Brexit would not necessarily be the resounding success for the Tories that it might with Brexit in the bag. Those wavering Tory MPs will, no doubt, be made painfully aware of that. Along with other threats.0 -
I only visit here occasionally.619 said:
'loud and uncouth'? erratic dangerous racist prick more like. And clinton doesnt have a neurological diseasePulpstar said:Trump is loud and uncouth, but better that then a president with a neurological disease of some type methinks.
To read such foul language makes me think we don't deserve your wit and knowledge and should micturate off elsewhere where your erudition and command of English might be better appreciated.
Or be civil and stay.0 -
This referee has done us no favours at all. If he had only sent Fellaini off then we would not be able to play him for 3 precious games.0
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AlastairMeeks said:
Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/
I think Liam Fox is running true to form: once an idiot, always an idiot.
0 -
I hadn't seen that before. I do note that when Erdogan proposed to reintroduce the death penalty EU bods were queueing up to tell him that that would prevent Turkey from joining the EU. How does that work, if Turkey was never going to join the EU anyway?williamglenn said:
Of course we can't speculate on people's motives, but we can state with certainty that 'everyone' was given campaign material like this from the official Leave campaign.MTimT said:
I suspect the problem in these two statements/queries is the word 'everyone'rottenborough said:
I thought everyone voted Leave in order to stop 4 million Turkish workers moving to the UK next year?PClipp said:
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.0 -
And Leicester City next week, with players on fire!TCPoliticalBetting said:Watford 3 ManU 1 wtf.
ManU have 3 defeats in a week.
In Dec 15 we were singing to Mourinho when we played Chelsea "you're getting sacked in the morning"
I feel a reprise coming on. Slimani will rip up their back line. It takes a heart of stone...
0 -
The same CBI who wanted a bare-knuckle fight with the sainted Margaret? Bunch of Corbynites.AlastairMeeks said:Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/0 -
The point is that it was British policy to encourage Turkey to join the EU. Even though that was a really stupid idea. It was a vivid demonstration of the madness the membership of the EU seems to engender. People say one thing, mean the opposite and wonder why people don't believe them.Ishmael_X said:
I hadn't seen that before. I do note that when Erdogan proposed to reintroduce the death penalty EU bods were queueing up to tell him that that would prevent Turkey from joining the EU. How does that work, if Turkey was never going to join the EU anyway?williamglenn said:
Of course we can't speculate on people's motives, but we can state with certainty that 'everyone' was given campaign material like this from the official Leave campaign.MTimT said:
I suspect the problem in these two statements/queries is the word 'everyone'rottenborough said:
I thought everyone voted Leave in order to stop 4 million Turkish workers moving to the UK next year?PClipp said:
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.0 -
Gallows humour. Rooney should pick up a red card and help ManU.DavidL said:This referee has done us no favours at all. If he had only sent Fellaini off then we would not be able to play him for 3 precious games.
0 -
In favour of Trump, but even more in favour of Pence and Kaine. Plan at present is to sell Trump the day after the first TV debate.Pong said:
I tilted my book in favour of trump last night @ 3-3.2 before the New York stuff.Dromedary said:These are the movements of the implied probabilities at the Betfair exchange over the past 40 hours. Note how Trump's price has moved since the bomb exploded in New York 11 hours ago.
Do you mind me asking how your book is balanced?0 -
It does not look good for ManU.foxinsoxuk said:
And Leicester City next week, with players on fire!TCPoliticalBetting said:Watford 3 ManU 1 wtf.
ManU have 3 defeats in a week.
In Dec 15 we were singing to Mourinho when we played Chelsea "you're getting sacked in the morning"
I feel a reprise coming on. Slimani will rip up their back line. It takes a heart of stone...
0 -
Indeed, the terminology 'is joining the EU' is very lawyerly and in a very narrow sense correct.Ishmael_X said:
I hadn't seen that before. I do note that when Erdogan proposed to reintroduce the death penalty EU bods were queueing up to tell him that that would prevent Turkey from joining the EU. How does that work, if Turkey was never going to join the EU anyway?williamglenn said:
Of course we can't speculate on people's motives, but we can state with certainty that 'everyone' was given campaign material like this from the official Leave campaign.MTimT said:
I suspect the problem in these two statements/queries is the word 'everyone'rottenborough said:
I thought everyone voted Leave in order to stop 4 million Turkish workers moving to the UK next year?PClipp said:
I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding?Monksfield said:I'm not saying they will block it, but they will force a proper vote by our elected representatives on the outcome, which to me is wholly sensible.
You forget in your victory that the vote for out was desperately narrow and that whilst I would accept a soft brexit I will fight something as utterly fucking self harming as hard brexit every single step of the way. There is no evidence that the 52% voted for hard brexit, in fact a high proportion didn't know what they were voting for at all. You're on bloody shaky ground and some of your leaders know it.
Turkey has been an associate member since 1963. It submitted its full membership application in 1987 and is going through the process of joining. In 1995, it joined the Customs Union. In 1999 its application for full membership was recognized. And in 2005, formal negotiations were begun. Of the 35 chapters that need to be concluded, 1 has and 14 others have been started.
So in a very legal sense, Turkey "is [in the process of] joining the EU".0 -
Brown 10p tax rate took under 24 hours.another_richard said:
Can anyone think of another CotE who delivered Budgets which disintegrated in the way Osborne's of 2012 and 2016 did ?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Osborne delivered at least two omnishambles budgets yet Cameron left him in the job.Ishmael_X said:It is not obvious to me that Osborne is a master strategist. A majority in 2010 was the tories' to lose and they lost it. The omnishambles budget was a monumental own goal (I suppose you could argue that it was a fiscal and economic cockup rather than a strategic one). What were his strategic successes?
There have been previous Budgets which were later shown to be economic mistakes and previous Budgets which were later shown to be political mistakes.
But I can't remember any before Osborne's where they disintegrated within days.0 -
I think that was the worst game I have seen him play. He was shocking and should be dropped.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Gallows humour. Rooney should pick up a red card and help ManU.DavidL said:This referee has done us no favours at all. If he had only sent Fellaini off then we would not be able to play him for 3 precious games.
0 -
More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
LOL, best laugh I have had in agesAlastairMeeks said:
It is an inevitable consequence of the Leave vote. The inferior calibre of the Leave politicians was inevitably going to impoverish the quality of government. Theresa May has exacerbated the problem by also settling scores entirely unnecessarily.foxinsoxuk said:
May has a cabinet of all the talents!AlastairMeeks said:Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/
Indeed Private Eye had it spot on with their cover:
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/current-issue0 -
Not all of New York's just Manhattan's. That's how petty he was to allow him to boast.619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)0 -
I am having a spectacularly bad Fantasy Football weekendTCPoliticalBetting said:
It does not look good for ManU.foxinsoxuk said:
And Leicester City next week, with players on fire!TCPoliticalBetting said:Watford 3 ManU 1 wtf.
ManU have 3 defeats in a week.
In Dec 15 we were singing to Mourinho when we played Chelsea "you're getting sacked in the morning"
I feel a reprise coming on. Slimani will rip up their back line. It takes a heart of stone...0 -
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/0 -
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
Neither Fallon nor Hammond were Leavers. I do agree with you though, they are both utterly talentless and long past their sell-by date.AlastairMeeks said:
It is an inevitable consequence of the Leave vote. The inferior calibre of the Leave politicians was inevitably going to impoverish the quality of government. Theresa May has exacerbated the problem by also settling scores entirely unnecessarily.foxinsoxuk said:
May has a cabinet of all the talents!AlastairMeeks said:Liam Fox has been making friends among businessmen again:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-17/fox-tells-uk-businesses-to-invest-more-abroad/
Indeed Private Eye had it spot on with their cover:
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/current-issue0 -
yup. sounds like a self centred boastMP_SE said:
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/0 -
So do I, but saying it probably won't happen doesn't mean it shouldn't.HYUFD said:
Whatever happens May will not roll back the state to anywhere near WW1 levels, by the time she leaves office I still expect her government to be spending more than Blair's 1997-2001 government, let alone the government pre WW1Luckyguy1983 said:
With a great deal of respect, I don't think that suggestions that we bomb mainland Europe were being made entirely seriously. The only actual policy suggestion I see here is to reduce the size of the state to pre WW1 levels. I look upon that with an open mind. It is obvious to me, if sadly to few others that the size of our state compared with the pay packet we earn from the rest of the world is grossly distended.viewcode said:
Well, there was that whole discussion about wanting to bomb the Europeans, by ourselves[5] or with the Russians[4], redefining Nato to disinclude the Europeans[1][2][3], then rolling back the Wilson/Jenkins/Mandelson/Crosland reforms[6]Luckyguy1983 said:
What policies?JosiasJessop said:'Leave' for them will mean not just leaving the EU, but a whole raft of regressive policies.
[1] this
[2] this
[3] this
[4] this
[5] this
[6] this0 -
So the full quote is "40 Wall street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually before the World Trade Center the tallest, and and then when they built the World Trade Center it became known as the second-tallest, and now it's the tallest "MP_SE said:
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/0 -
"I really am convinced we're in danger of the sort of terrorist attacks that will make the bombing of the Trade Center look like kids playing with firecrackers. No sensible analyst rejects this possibility, and plenty of them, like me, are not wondering if but when it will happen."foxinsoxuk said:
So he mentioned in a book several years after the event of the 1993 bombing and 1997 conviction of radical Islamists in court that other Islamists might want to blow up buildings.PlatoSaid said:
That's risible handwaving. He said it - you know it, and just don't like it.foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
The man must be a clairvoyant genius or was part of the Zionist/NWO/Lizard/holographic plot for 9/11.
Trump The America We Deserve 2000 c.1
I don't see what your point is. Why does the fact that the warning is "in a book" matter?
btw "The 9/11 attacks also didn't come without warning. As early as December 4, 1998, former President Clinton was warned that bin Laden was preparing to hijack U.S. aircraft, according to the 9/11 Commission Report."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fact-check-did-donald-trump-predict-the-911-attacks/
If you are a Clinton supporter I don't think you want to get into a pissing contest over 9/11 predictions. Find a really interesting squirrel to point to.0 -
Just lower Manhattan. Didn't match the Empire State Building.Alistair said:
Not all of New York's just Manhattan's. That's how petty he was to allow him to boast.619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)0 -
Alistair said:
So the full quote is "40 Wall street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually before the World Trade Center the tallest, and and then when they built the World Trade Center it became known as the second-tallest, and now it's the tallest "MP_SE said:
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/
But said in the context of concern that it might be the next target.
0 -
Grasping at straws.619 said:
yup. sounds like a self centred boastMP_SE said:
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/0 -
I never said that Mr Zims.john_zims said:@PClipp 'I was under the impression that everybody who voted Leave did so to get 350 million per week for the NHS. This Tory Government seems a bit slow in starting to pay up. Boris Johnson, where are you hiding? '
Youv'e obviously changed your mind as previously everybody that voted Leave was a racist & xenophobe.
And I did vote Leave..... 0 -
0
-
From the video, doesn't sound like a bragging as such, more just the weird manner in which Trump talks where he kinda of spews info in response to a question.
I find the way he talks very odd, especially given how much tv he has done. Most successful people, especially those who interact with the media a lot, learn a habit of getting a question, considering it, and you can tell they thinking what they may or may not want to say on the subject, then answering.
Trump responds to questions kinda of like a kid who wants to impress somebody with all the information they know about a particular subject, and it spews out in an uncontrolled and unordered manner.0 -
Somewhat mystified as to why you haven't provided the full quote.MP_SE said:
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/0 -
It can be found in the link which I think is kind of obvious. I presume you are capable of clicking on the link?Theuniondivvie said:
Somewhat mystified as to why you haven't provided the full quote.MP_SE said:
How about the full quote:619 said:
and trumps reaction after was 'great, i have new yorks tallest towerfoxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind that Islamists including Osama Bin Laden had tried to blow up the WTC in 1993, it hardly requires Mystic Meg to know they were planning major attacks*, perhaps on skyscrapers in NYC. As an owner of several skyscrapers there I would expect Trump to have had a more than passing interest.PlatoSaid said:MSNBC are having a breakdown
John Miller
MSNBC panel SHOCKED to learn #Trump warned about 9/11 in Jan 2000, 19+ mo before attack!
#SundayMorning #NeverForget https://t.co/Cew5d7SFeb
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/world-trade-center-bombed
*(Except of course as many Trump supporters (and Islamists) know, actually the 9/11 attacks were organised by the CIA and Mossad as part of a conspiracy by holographic lizards. Or something)
"So it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that "now it's the tallest" [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted "bragging" is a matter of subjective interpretation, however."
http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/0 -
Trouble At Mill....Murray injured in the tennis....0
-
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
I suppose none of Cheltenham's schools would be taking his career choice advice seriously in the first place.
http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2016-09-18/local-councillor-resigns-over-prostitution-comments/0 -
I guess it has better career prospects than telling them to try becoming a Lib Dem MP....dr_spyn said:I suppose none of Cheltenham's schools would be taking his career choice advice seriously in the first place.
http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2016-09-18/local-councillor-resigns-over-prostitution-comments/0 -
Labour defections would hardly help. That's why the Farron pivot to the Left makes perfect sense from the point of view both of salving the hurt feelings of the Left-leaning activist base and of repudiating the Orange Book tendency, but none at all from that of winning elections.john_zims said:@Black_Rook
'The Lib Dem rump is very weak, and its remaining support is too evenly spread to allow it to make much progress in future Parliamentary elections. They are trying to carve out territory for themselves on the soft centre-left at the very moment when that segment of politics is in collapse: majority of the electorate is, broadly speaking, right or right-leaning, and most committed anti-Tory progressives show no signs of being interested in jumping ship from a more radical Labour Party. The available market share for a wet centrist, Europhile party simply isn't large enough for them to re-establish themselves as a force.'
As mentioned yesterday there is a niche for them at local government level organising bin collections & keeping public toilets open et al.
Their big hope that there would be Labour defections is not going to happen and they will remain a rump party at national level.
There just aren't enough Commons seats where the Lib Dems are the main challengers to Labour and are within a reasonable distance of them. If you plug last years' GE vote shares into Electoral Calculus, specify a projection based on the revised boundaries, and then subtract half of Labour's entire vote and give it all to the Lib Dems, they still only end up with 39 seats (against Rump Labour's 125.) And there's no way on Earth either that Labour is going to go down to 15% of the popular vote in 2020, or that the Lib Dems will be the sole, or even principal, beneficiaries of any further erosion of Labour's vote share.
Just as with Labour, the path to a Lib Dem revival lies straight through the Conservative vote, and there is no particular reason to suppose that any of the voters who backed Cameron in 2015 will defect in 2020. The only alternative administration is a rainbow coalition dominated by the hard Left and Scottish nationalists (and which voters would be entitled to presume Farron would prop up in order to get the Tories out and secure himself a seat in cabinet,) and no significant number of current Conservative voters is going to be willing to countenance that.0 -
Pew Research
Many Europeans don't believe Muslims want to integrate into the larger society https://t.co/4F7lF4QXyN https://t.co/n621LCwL4S0 -
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: the race had a bit of hype, but actually exceeded expectations. Much to write about. [Kept this short and spoiler-free].0 -
The History of Toothpaste.Ishmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
As rich as creases.PlatoSaid said:
The History of Toothpaste.Ishmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
chris christie
'Trump barely talked about birtherism the last 5 years'
Cue tv news rolling all of the birther comments about trump to prove this to be a massive lie.0 -
Even I have overtaken you. That's not a good sign!Alistair said:
I am having a spectacularly bad Fantasy Football weekendTCPoliticalBetting said:
It does not look good for ManU.foxinsoxuk said:
And Leicester City next week, with players on fire!TCPoliticalBetting said:Watford 3 ManU 1 wtf.
ManU have 3 defeats in a week.
In Dec 15 we were singing to Mourinho when we played Chelsea "you're getting sacked in the morning"
I feel a reprise coming on. Slimani will rip up their back line. It takes a heart of stone...0 -
new PA poll has clintons lead increasing to 9 (8 in a 4 way)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-notable-new-poll
looks like clinton is making a comeback in the polls post illness0 -
Well that is a race well worth watching again, for anyone who missed it.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: the race had a bit of hype, but actually exceeded expectations. Much to write about. [Kept this short and spoiler-free].0 -
its a terrible website which makes up stuff to get white nationalists excited. hardly trustworthyIshmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
Did you not posted that last night...619 said:new PA poll has clintons lead increasing to 9 (8 in a 4 way)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-notable-new-poll
looks like clinton is making a comeback in the polls post illness0 -
Mr. Sandpit, indeed.
Just writing the post-race ramble now.0 -
Everyone who has notSandpit said:
Well that is a race well worth watching again, for anyone who missed it.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: the race had a bit of hype, but actually exceeded expectations. Much to write about. [Kept this short and spoiler-free].sold their souls to Satanbought Sky.0 -
Huhne's framed photo of himself was my favourite expenses claim - just perfect.Ishmael_X said:
As rich as creases.PlatoSaid said:
The History of Toothpaste.Ishmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
"somewhat dubious" meaning you don't like the results?619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
no, they have a different system were they ask a section of the same 4000 people over the months. It starts off with more republicans and less minorities than either pollster. It could right, but it looks very dubious to me.ThreeQuidder said:
"somewhat dubious" meaning you don't like the results?619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
Yes, but trustworthiness doesn't really arise in connection with a video parts of which are available everywhere else on the internet and whose authenticity is not in question, does it? You aspire to being a troll, and fail even at that.619 said:
its a terrible website which makes up stuff to get white nationalists excited. hardly trustworthyIshmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...0 -
Awww - so everyone who disagrees with you is a bent pollster, or a white supremacist? Seriously?619 said:
its a terrible website which makes up stuff to get white nationalists excited. hardly trustworthyIshmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...
Make your point for your side - throwing around insults doesn't cut much ice here.0 -
Miss Plato, White supremacists = people who enjoy the splendid writings of Thaddeus White?
0 -
i didnt say the la time poll was bent. i said why i think its a bit dubious below. which is perfectly reasonable.PlatoSaid said:
Awww - so everyone who disagrees with you is a bent pollster, or a white supremacist? Seriously?619 said:
its a terrible website which makes up stuff to get white nationalists excited. hardly trustworthyIshmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...
Make your point for your side - throwing around insults doesn't cut much ice here.
breithart are very much pro white fundamentalist. No disputing that i would have thought.
0 -
What I find so odd - is that Hillary looks zonked. She's swaying, slow and clearly trying really hard to appear normal. It's how I'd look on tranquillisers or drunk when pretending to be sober.Ishmael_X said:
Yes, but trustworthiness doesn't really arise in connection with a video parts of which are available everywhere else on the internet and whose authenticity is not in question, does it? You aspire to being a troll, and fail even at that.619 said:
its a terrible website which makes up stuff to get white nationalists excited. hardly trustworthyIshmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...
It's getting ZERO mentions in the media. They're all bickering about the definition of 'is'.0 -
no was a different state last nightFrancisUrquhart said:
Did you not posted that last night...619 said:new PA poll has clintons lead increasing to 9 (8 in a 4 way)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-notable-new-poll
looks like clinton is making a comeback in the polls post illness0 -
If 'barely' is used in a relative rather than absolute sense, then it might be true, given how much Trump talks619 said:chris christie
'Trump barely talked about birtherism the last 5 years'
Cue tv news rolling all of the birther comments about trump to prove this to be a massive lie. 0 -
At last some common sense
Fox
.@NYGovCuomo: A bomb exploding in New York is obviously an act of terrorism. #ChelseaNYC https://t.co/ysn8QHWXsl0 -
Don't you think she looks tired? She appears too stupefied to put one word after another. I think she campaigned in 2008 as having experience of what to do when the Pentagon ring at 3 in the morning to announce a nuclear first strike; she doesn't currently look as if she would be much use at that.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so odd - is that Hillary looks zonked. She's swaying, slow and clearly trying really hard to appear normal. It's how I'd look on tranquillisers or drunk when pretending to be sober.Ishmael_X said:
Yes, but trustworthiness doesn't really arise in connection with a video parts of which are available everywhere else on the internet and whose authenticity is not in question, does it? You aspire to being a troll, and fail even at that.619 said:
its a terrible website which makes up stuff to get white nationalists excited. hardly trustworthyIshmael_X said:
His "oh, well, if it's on breitbart" this morning (in response to a video posted on breitbart rather than a statement made by them) was I think as dim as anything Ash managed in his heyday, if you remember Ash.PlatoSaid said:
You're getting really quite comic now.619 said:
thats the same somewhat dubious la times pollPlatoSaid said:More good news for Team Hillary
http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/
"Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.
Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.
Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent. Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event...
It's getting ZERO mentions in the media. They're all bickering about the definition of 'is'.
Please God send us a Kaine presidency.0 -
JosiasJessop said:
Sadly, I'm not the heir to a baronetcy.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I have a sneaking suspicion that it is possible that Gideon is posting here.JosiasJessop said:
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.GIN1138 said:I think Theresa May is doing OK personally.
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage. 0
