Haha Casino....wishful thinking indeed about Osbo becoming the Brexit man.
You are right Osbo is a strategist, but he is an opportunist and young. It is much more likely that he will cheer on the sidelines as the full horror of Brexit comes to pass, and, as the Tory party leadership implodes under a mixture of incompetence, ego, indecision, inability to deal with the unfolding crisis that are looming ahead.
Osbo will pick up the pieces then and be vindicated that he was right all along rather than having to take any crap from the likes of you and your rightwing ideological comrades. I would suggest Churchill is a better example for Osbo to draw on.
This post smacks a little of desperation - quite a lot of Brexiters sound desperate at the moment, as though the referendum victory was pyrrhic.
We'll calm down once Article 50 has been invoked, and powerful Remainers stop talking about trying to find ways of overturning the expressed will of the people.
Re trump saying bomb before official police announcement. I am guessing he has secret service detail at all times & they would definitely know (especially as trump / trump family are NY based) & aI m guessing as a billionaire new Yorker he knows who to call to find out anyway to get the inside info.
All that been said not what you expect from POTUS.
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
This post smacks a little of desperation - quite a lot of Brexiters sound desperate at the moment, as though the referendum victory was pyrrhic.
We'll calm down once Article 50 has been invoked, and powerful Remainers stop talking about trying to find ways of overturning the expressed will of the people.
The will of just over half the people (btw where's the £350m/week for the NHS?)
At the most there might be a minor chance of him taking a Mandelson type role advising the government on Brexit but even then that would be unlikely given his staunch pro Remain position but he is a calculating tactician who could still be useful. However he has zero chance of ever becoming Tory leader or PM, even Tory voters loathe him and I actually could see Corbyn beating him in a way I could also have seen even IDS beating Mandelson, both are toxic in terms of appealing to voters, they are not leaders but backroom operators. In fact Osborne would probably lose about half the present Tory vote to UKIP if he ever somehow managed to replace May!
An excellent thread header. I agree Osborne can come back and relatively quickly. However both Mandelson's and David's returns were in response to political crises. Having so brutally sacked him what crisis would prompt May to send for Osborne ? It's also not clear if this was written before or after Osborne's Today programme relaunch. I suspect before. He clearly wants and is planning a return to top flight politics. But his coded attacks on May were were clear. As was his positioning on soft Brexit. Nevertheless given how hard the Brexit negotiations are going to be some sort of reconstruction or reshuffle of the government during the dreary exit process is probable. I think we'd need some more specific betting markets but a good tip.
I wrote this on Thursday evening.
My wife and I are away in Scotland for the weekend for a break (shamefully we are only just emerging now) and I didn't expect it to be up so soon!
I think the codes attacks on May were a mistake. The only way this works is if he shows loyalty to her, shows he has now accepted the referendum result and wants to help make it work.
If it's about sniping from the sidelines and waiting for her to fail and fall, I think he was little to no chance because that's the sort of behaviour that led to him losing office in the first place.
I cant remember things being so polarised politically between two groups with irreconcilable views, with the leftist group unambigouusly out of power and unable to change anything since the heady days of the early to mid 80s and Thatchers decision to have US nuclear cruise missiles here to guardiano-cnd type outrage.
Pressure cooker bomb is straight it of Jahadi IED making manual, but then we all know that now is a quick & easy way to make an IED so could be any old.nutter. Other bomb was hidden in a toolbox.
Given that GO was closely involved in the Renegotiation with Brussels that killed both his and Cameron's careers stone dead, Theresa May would go through the whole phone book looking for an alternative before she dialled up Osborne's number.
The only way Osborne gets close to power again requires him to come through the revolving doors that May is leaving from.
My reading of Osborne is that he's all about realpolitik and happy to be flexible if that's what is required. That's what allowed him to move from matching new labour spending, to age of austerity, to tax cuts, to long-term economic plan, and then to a Blue Labour approach in the autumn of last year.
His biggest flaw is bearing personal antipathies and dislike of the Right. This all hinges on him learning some lessons, and being the bigger man.
He is bright enough to do so. Question is: can he bring himself to do so?
It was Gove who was tired of experts as I recall. He too is out of government.
Pause...wait...don't do it...oh, well then
For him alone, May deserves the benefit of any possible doubt.
And then she sacked Morgan too
I am not convinced that replacing their hobby horse with her own is much progress.
It will be interesting to see how the others of the old regime fare, such as Jeremy Hunt. TM seems to back him as per this little clip. Perhaps she feels threatened by people of ability. It would explain a lot about her current cabinet.
Mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio, said that "all hands are on deck" in the city.
"We also want to be up front in saying that there is no evidence at this point of a terror connection to this incident," he added.
What a stupid thing to say...you don't just find several IEDs in a major city just from some one larking about. I think what he really means to say is no connection to Islamic terrorism at this stage.
It was Gove who was tired of experts as I recall. He too is out of government.
Pause...wait...don't do it...oh, well then
For him alone, May deserves the benefit of any possible doubt.
And then she sacked Morgan too
I am not convinced that replacing their hobby horse with her own is much progress.
It will be interesting to see how the others of the old regime fare, such as Jeremy Hunt. TM seems to back him as per this little clip. Perhaps she feels threatened by people of ability. It would explain a lot about her current cabinet.
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Don't forget the Aloha Snackbar attack in Minnesota last night too - one dead, 7 others stabbed. And the NJ pipe bomb that failed to go off. All yesterday.
EDIT
BNO News UPDATE: Man who stabbed 8 at Minnesota mall spoke about Allah, asked at least person if they were Muslim
Hillary wanting to ditch the second amendment and disarm everyone is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick after this
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
It was Gove who was tired of experts as I recall. He too is out of government.
Populist politics prefers folk wisdom, and half baked theories, to the mundane business of evidence and expert analysis. It is all part of post truth politics.
There's a question of whether George Osborne could be part of the post-post-truth politics. I agree I can't see him doing much while we are in the post-truth phase.
Osborne shouldn't have been sacked. He could have been Foreign Secretary / leading Brexit negotiations.
As it is, Boris is only in there because May fears his popularity. But Boris could have been bought off with any old thing after his very public humiliation (party chairman?).
That would have left May freer to focus on domestic reform.
Instead she seems to minded to lead Brexit and home affairs at once, slapping down the ministers nominally responsible.
It will end in tears.
Osborne, though unlikeable, can count on the support or at least sympathy of both exiled Cameroonians and a large chunk of Blairites. A fear of the economic damage of a hard Brexit could quite easily see Osborne place himself at the head of this loose movement.
If Corbyn really does go ahead with his insane plans to hand over shadow cabinet selection to members, then a large chunk of the Labour PLP have nothing left to lose. The opportunity to fight against hard Brexit gives them the opportunity to fight for the national interest, and they could coalesce behind an Osbornite attempt to wreck Brexit.
GO will be on the back benches for a while. May has made an enemy there, and one with quite a few parliamentary friends and allies, even if not in the wider party.
His career is not over though. I can see him coming back when May falls from grace, not least for a quick jig on her political grave.
Osborne may well have left politics to head an international quango or to make some more money well before May departs from No 10
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
Politics can get personal. But it's in the nature of politics that politicians do personal reconciliations when they need to.
I had very few good words to say about Osborne at the end of June. I am now open minded about him.
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
Mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio, said that "all hands are on deck" in the city.
"We also want to be up front in saying that there is no evidence at this point of a terror connection to this incident," he added.
What a stupid thing to say...you don't just find several IEDs in a major city just from some one larking about. I think what he really means to say is no connection to Islamic terrorism at this stage.
Did you see his press conference? Jeez, a room temperature IQ in all it's glory. There's a UN bigwigs meeting today so the place is already crawling with Feds and extra cops.
Given that GO was closely involved in the Renegotiation with Brussels that killed both his and Cameron's careers stone dead, Theresa May would go through the whole phone book looking for an alternative before she dialled up Osborne's number.
The only way Osborne gets close to power again requires him to come through the revolving doors that May is leaving from.
Well that's alright then. The whole thread is moot then. The Brexiteers will be along in due course with the amazing new deal we've been promised. No need for Osborne !
Osborne might consider himself an ace manipulator and strategist. But he has shown no ability to bring these superpowers to bear on Brussels.
He is quite literally the last person the UK needs to bring into the Brexit negotiations.
Osborne never even wanted the referendum, and I suspect at one point had sympathy with joining the euro.
But the political landscape has fundamentally changed, and Brexit is the future of this country.
If he ever wants back he has to demonstrate that he will do his best to make it as much of a success as possible.
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
It was Gove who was tired of experts as I recall. He too is out of government.
Populist politics prefers folk wisdom, and half baked theories, to the mundane business of evidence and expert analysis. It is all part of post truth politics.
There's a question of whether George Osborne could be part of the post-post-truth politics. I agree I can't see him doing much while we are in the post-truth phase.
Do Emergency Budgets form part of Post Truth Politics?
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
I voted remain, and I want anyone but Trump for president, but the sight of your giocattoli leaving the carrozina always has a powerful consoling effect. Thank you!
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
No and of course the Mail backed Leave, the Times backed Remain
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
Lets make PB great again!
Think we need to a build a big wall, a big (fire)wall ...
I cant remember things being so polarised politically between two groups with irreconcilable views, with the leftist group unambigouusly out of power and unable to change anything since the heady days of the early to mid 80s and Thatchers decision to have US nuclear cruise missiles here to guardiano-cnd type outrage.
Although I was a nipper back then, from what I know of it, Labour are in a worse position now than they were then.
As for the Conservatives: it's too early to tell if May is another Thatcher or Heath, or somewhere in between. I would not assume that her government will be an assiduously right-wing one, especially with the problems of Brexit hanging over it like Domocles' Sword.
We could easily end up with both Labour and the Conservatives split and fighting internally rather than each other.
Given that GO was closely involved in the Renegotiation with Brussels that killed both his and Cameron's careers stone dead, Theresa May would go through the whole phone book looking for an alternative before she dialled up Osborne's number.
The only way Osborne gets close to power again requires him to come through the revolving doors that May is leaving from.
My reading of Osborne is that he's all about realpolitik and happy to be flexible if that's what is required. That's what allowed him to move from matching new labour spending, to age of austerity, to tax cuts, to long-term economic plan, and then to a Blue Labour approach in the autumn of last year.
His biggest flaw is bearing personal antipathies and dislike of the Right. This all hinges on him learning some lessons, and being the bigger man.
He is bright enough to do so. Question is: can he bring himself to do so?
Listen comrade, I'll put it a little more clearly...why the hell should Osbo eat humble pie? You say he was a strategist, so you maybe might be able to accept then that he could be right that Brexit could be a disaster for the country and be vindicated. Just because he lost the vote doesn't make him wrong about Brexit.
Asking him to come back into Govt now is akin to asking Hilary Benn to rejoin Corbyn, admitting he was wrong, admitting that Corbyn will lead Labour to a great triumph.
At the moment we have ideological movements running both our great parties. Ultimately pragmatism will return and both will track to the centre after the country gets the fallout from Brexit. The likes of Osbo, Nicky Morgan, Chukka, Ed Balls, Dave Miliband, are young. Time is on their side.
Osborne shouldn't have been sacked. He could have been Foreign Secretary / leading Brexit negotiations.
As it is, Boris is only in there because May fears his popularity. But Boris could have been bought off with any old thing after his very public humiliation (party chairman?).
That would have left May freer to focus on domestic reform.
Instead she seems to minded to lead Brexit and home affairs at once, slapping down the ministers nominally responsible.
It will end in tears.
Osborne, though unlikeable, can count on the support or at least sympathy of both exiled Cameroonians and a large chunk of Blairites. A fear of the economic damage of a hard Brexit could quite easily see Osborne place himself at the head of this loose movement.
If Corbyn really does go ahead with his insane plans to hand over shadow cabinet selection to members, then a large chunk of the Labour PLP have nothing left to lose. The opportunity to fight against hard Brexit gives them the opportunity to fight for the national interest, and they could coalesce behind an Osbornite attempt to wreck Brexit.
In the end May is more likely to do some form of deal with the EU if she can, it will not be soft Brexit but will not be full, hard Brexit either. Therefore the opposition is most likely to come from UKIP and hard Brexiteers on the Tory benches, Osborne and the Blairites now have only a small minority of support in their respective parties and their is little support in the country at large for keeping free movement as now and complete access to the single market beyond the LDs and the Greens
Osborne shouldn't have been sacked. He could have been Foreign Secretary / leading Brexit negotiations.
As it is, Boris is only in there because May fears his popularity. But Boris could have been bought off with any old thing after his very public humiliation (party chairman?).
That would have left May freer to focus on domestic reform.
Instead she seems to minded to lead Brexit and home affairs at once, slapping down the ministers nominally responsible.
It will end in tears.
Osborne, though unlikeable, can count on the support or at least sympathy of both exiled Cameroonians and a large chunk of Blairites. A fear of the economic damage of a hard Brexit could quite easily see Osborne place himself at the head of this loose movement.
If Corbyn really does go ahead with his insane plans to hand over shadow cabinet selection to members, then a large chunk of the Labour PLP have nothing left to lose. The opportunity to fight against hard Brexit gives them the opportunity to fight for the national interest, and they could coalesce behind an Osbornite attempt to wreck Brexit.
Boris is where he is in large part because the alternatives were all too dangerous. Him as Party Chairman would have been suicidal for May!
It was Gove who was tired of experts as I recall. He too is out of government.
Pause...wait...don't do it...oh, well then
For him alone, May deserves the benefit of any possible doubt.
And then she sacked Morgan too
I am not convinced that replacing their hobby horse with her own is much progress.
It will be interesting to see how the others of the old regime fare, such as Jeremy Hunt. TM seems to back him as per this little clip. Perhaps she feels threatened by people of ability. It would explain a lot about her current cabinet.
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
Lets make PB great again!
Francis Urquhart's reply to you is class.....there are times when you cannot help admire the intelligence of some of our posters.
BTW....poor show thumping the Clarets. I have taken on the cause of the Clarets as my second team.
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.
No, it is a policy backed by a majority of Tory voters and which she will need to keep on board any thinking of defecting to UKIP if they do not think Brexit has gone as far as they would like by 2020
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.
It's a "mess" of your opposed to grammar schools? If your not (or if like me you aren't especially bothered one way or t'other) it's not been a "mess".
What Osborne and his supporters need to recognise is just how much they pissed off me and my fellow Brexiteers prior to the referendum, and for a time before.
That this is still very keenly felt several months after the vote shows just how bitter it became.
FWIW, I, like many of my fellow Brexiteers and those on the Right, don't particularly share George Osborne's politics.
The point of my article isn't that I do (I don't) it's that George Osborne's talents could be turned to our advantage (and that of the country) if they were used to strengthen the PM's hand during the Brexit negotiations, but it would require him to show he was the bigger man and on the same page first.
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.
No, it is a policy backed by a majority of Tory voters and which she will need to keep on board any thinking of defecting to UKIP if they do not think Brexit has gone as far as they would like by 2020
And also a policy that, if (when?) it runs into political trouble, would offer a very handy reason for having an election after all, should she decide she needed one.
It is not obvious to me that Osborne is a master strategist. A majority in 2010 was the tories' to lose and they lost it. The omnishambles budget was a monumental own goal (I suppose you could argue that it was a fiscal and economic cockup rather than a strategic one). What were his strategic successes?
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
I cant remember things being so polarised politically between two groups with irreconcilable views, with the leftist group unambigouusly out of power and unable to change anything since the heady days of the early to mid 80s and Thatchers decision to have US nuclear cruise missiles here to guardiano-cnd type outrage.
Although I was a nipper back then, from what I know of it, Labour are in a worse position now than they were then.
As for the Conservatives: it's too early to tell if May is another Thatcher or Heath, or somewhere in between. I would not assume that her government will be an assiduously right-wing one, especially with the problems of Brexit hanging over it like Domocles' Sword.
We could easily end up with both Labour and the Conservatives split and fighting internally rather than each other.
In social economic terms - May is fairly left wing. Her meritocracy and putting the boot into public schools in the Grammar School green paper is more Labour than Tory.
In social morality terms she is right wing. But willing to compromise if it cause a lot of upset (hence supporting Gay Marriage).
She is after all a devout vicars daughter.
So think. What would a traditional but middle of the road (ie not uber high or low) c of e vicar do in number 10 and you will get a steer.
I cant remember things being so polarised politically between two groups with irreconcilable views, with the leftist group unambigouusly out of power and unable to change anything since the heady days of the early to mid 80s and Thatchers decision to have US nuclear cruise missiles here to guardiano-cnd type outrage.
Although I was a nipper back then, from what I know of it, Labour are in a worse position now than they were then.
As for the Conservatives: it's too early to tell if May is another Thatcher or Heath, or somewhere in between. I would not assume that her government will be an assiduously right-wing one, especially with the problems of Brexit hanging over it like Domocles' Sword.
We could easily end up with both Labour and the Conservatives split and fighting internally rather than each other.
Cameron was a combination of Blair and Heath, May is a combination of Thatcher and Major
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.
It's a "mess" of your opposed to grammar schools? If your not (or if like me you aren't especially bothered one way or t'other) it's not been a "mess".
Are indifference toward grammar and towards grammars correlated, then?
It is not obvious to me that Osborne is a master strategist. A majority in 2010 was the tories' to lose and they lost it. The omnishambles budget was a monumental own goal (I suppose you could argue that it was a fiscal and economic cockup rather than a strategic one). What were his strategic successes?
Indeed.
Osborne's abilities appear to be greatly over-rated, primarily by the man himself...
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
Politics can get personal. But it's in the nature of politics that politicians do personal reconciliations when they need to.
I had very few good words to say about Osborne at the end of June. I am now open minded about him.
But he has to meet us Brexiters in the middle.
You willed the impoverishment of the quality of government in pursuit of an oddball obsession. Having achieved the second, you now repent of the first. You can't have your cake and eat it.
'And here lies the contradiction at the heart of May's agenda: she is at once moral conservative and social liberal. This contrast has been evident during her time as Home Secretary since 2010. A steady hand at the notoriously turbulent Department, May was increasingly tough-talking on immigration. Yet she also did more than any other Home Secretary since Kenneth Clarke in attempting to reform the police, for years finding herself at loggerheads with the conservative Police Federation over police corruption and misuse of stop-and-search. Dismissed as authoritarian and "illiberal" by the evangelical Christian Lib Dem leader Tim Farron this week, she has nonetheless gained the support of Tory heavyweight civil libertarian David Davis MP....
On behalf of the Catholics, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, who has worked closely with May on human trafficking issues, wrote to her this morning to say: "I am personally delighted at your appointment. I know from the work we have done together that you have so many qualities to bring to the service of our countries at this time. I appreciate the maturity of judgement, the steely resolve, the sense of justice and the personal integrity and warmth you have always shown."
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.
It's popular in the opinion polls, Daily Mail, Sun & Telegraph - I guess that's the sort of "mess" May can live with...
It's a mess because it does not address the central problems in the education system, has picked fights with some vested interests, and she appears to be rolling back from it (at least from what someone's said on here).
As an attempt to get some kudos from the right wing of her party, it will work in the short term *if* she actually follows it up. But it will make a messy education system even messier, and store many problems for the future.
If only she could have made it part of a 'proper' education policy. But now that she's announced this, any attempts to fix the system's real problems will be seen in the light of grammar schools.
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
Politics can get personal. But it's in the nature of politics that politicians do personal reconciliations when they need to.
I had very few good words to say about Osborne at the end of June. I am now open minded about him.
But he has to meet us Brexiters in the middle.
You willed the impoverishment of the quality of government in pursuit of an oddball obsession.
Hmmmmm.... No? He was given a vote (by the Prime Minister) and voted according to what he thought.
If Cameron and the government didn't want to hear the answer they shouldn't' have asked the question.
Like I said at the time, Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the voters... And lost!
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
So who did Cameron's "base" vote for in 2010, if they are the reason he didn't get a majority then - Nick Clegg?
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
Politics can get personal. But it's in the nature of politics that politicians do personal reconciliations when they need to.
I had very few good words to say about Osborne at the end of June. I am now open minded about him.
But he has to meet us Brexiters in the middle.
You willed the impoverishment of the quality of government in pursuit of an oddball obsession. Having achieved the second, you now repent of the first. You can't have your cake and eat it.
The "oddball obsession" that just carried the referendum? That one?
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
The grammar schools policy has been an unnecessary mess, and one that will pollute her education policy for the next year or so.
No, it is a policy backed by a majority of Tory voters and which she will need to keep on board any thinking of defecting to UKIP if they do not think Brexit has gone as far as they would like by 2020
And also a policy that, if (when?) it runs into political trouble, would offer a very handy reason for having an election after all, should she decide she needed one.
There is that too, though I think an election will wait until 2020
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
To support your view. From early 2001, when he was just a hopeful parliamentary candidate, to spring 2004, by which time he was deputy chairman of his party, David Cameron wrote a series of fortnightly diaries .......in the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/Columnists/Archive/0,,649666,00.html
Haha Casino....wishful thinking indeed about Osbo becoming the Brexit man.
You are right Osbo is a strategist, but he is an opportunist and young. It is much more likely that he will cheer on the sidelines as the full horror of Brexit comes to pass, and, as the Tory party leadership implodes under a mixture of incompetence, ego, indecision, inability to deal with the unfolding crisis that are looming ahead.
Osbo will pick up the pieces then and be vindicated that he was right all along rather than having to take any crap from the likes of you and your rightwing ideological comrades. I would suggest Churchill is a better example for Osbo to draw on.
Brexit is Osborne's future, just as it is for all of the rest of us.
If he ever wants to be leader he has to play his part in shaping it. Hiding in the shadows before emerging with a smile to say 'told you so' might be good for the pundit circuit, or a single-issue backbencher, but not for an ambitious politician looking to the future. He can't be the anti Bill Cash.
None of the issues that underlay the vote, or, indeed, the result of the vote itself, are going to go away. He has to demonstrate that he now understands this and will engage with it to make it a success.
Given that GO was closely involved in the Renegotiation with Brussels that killed both his and Cameron's careers stone dead, Theresa May would go through the whole phone book looking for an alternative before she dialled up Osborne's number.
The only way Osborne gets close to power again requires him to come through the revolving doors that May is leaving from.
My reading of Osborne is that he's all about realpolitik and happy to be flexible if that's what is required. That's what allowed him to move from matching new labour spending, to age of austerity, to tax cuts, to long-term economic plan, and then to a Blue Labour approach in the autumn of last year.
His biggest flaw is bearing personal antipathies and dislike of the Right. This all hinges on him learning some lessons, and being the bigger man.
He is bright enough to do so. Question is: can he bring himself to do so?
I think the problem here lies with May rather than Osborne. It appears that she holds grudges - maybe with some justification - but if the PM cannot be the bigger person here then no-one can.
It is not obvious to me that Osborne is a master strategist. A majority in 2010 was the tories' to lose and they lost it. The omnishambles budget was a monumental own goal (I suppose you could argue that it was a fiscal and economic cockup rather than a strategic one). What were his strategic successes?
Indeed.
You can also add that the whole 'Cameron Project' formulated by Osborne was predicated on the economy being strong and there being plenty of money for spending increases and tax rises. Hence Osborne's 'rabbit in the headlights' non-performance in 2008-9.
The Conservative majority in 2015 came as a surprise to Osborne and was based upon factors out of his control - the weakness of EdM, the rise of the SNP and UKIP eating into Labour's wwc vote because of immigration.
And I don't think anyone could describe Osborne's EU referendum campaign as a strategic success.
Haha Casino....wishful thinking indeed about Osbo becoming the Brexit man.
You are right Osbo is a strategist, but he is an opportunist and young. It is much more likely that he will cheer on the sidelines as the full horror of Brexit comes to pass, and, as the Tory party leadership implodes under a mixture of incompetence, ego, indecision, inability to deal with the unfolding crisis that are looming ahead.
Osbo will pick up the pieces then and be vindicated that he was right all along rather than having to take any crap from the likes of you and your rightwing ideological comrades. I would suggest Churchill is a better example for Osbo to draw on.
Brexit is Osborne's future, just as it is for all of the rest of us.
If he ever wants to be leader he has to play his part in shaping it. Hiding in the shadows before emerging with a smile to say 'told you so' might be good for the pundit circuit, or a single-issue backbencher, but not for an ambitious politician looking to the future. He can't be the anti Bill Cash.
None of the issues that underlay the vote, or, indeed, the result of the vote itself, are going to go away. He has to demonstrate that he now understands this and will engage with it to make it a success.
If tyson's scenario comes to pass - and it isn't impossible - it won't be another Tory to whom people turn. The Tory party as a whole is tied to the whole referendum/exit escapade and if it fails, they all go down with it.
I cant remember things being so polarised politically between two groups with irreconcilable views, with the leftist group unambigouusly out of power and unable to change anything since the heady days of the early to mid 80s and Thatchers decision to have US nuclear cruise missiles here to guardiano-cnd type outrage.
Although I was a nipper back then, from what I know of it, Labour are in a worse position now than they were then.
As for the Conservatives: it's too early to tell if May is another Thatcher or Heath, or somewhere in between. I would not assume that her government will be an assiduously right-wing one, especially with the problems of Brexit hanging over it like Domocles' Sword.
We could easily end up with both Labour and the Conservatives split and fighting internally rather than each other.
Cameron was a combination of Blair and Heath, May is a combination of Thatcher and Major
It is not obvious to me that Osborne is a master strategist. A majority in 2010 was the tories' to lose and they lost it. The omnishambles budget was a monumental own goal (I suppose you could argue that it was a fiscal and economic cockup rather than a strategic one). What were his strategic successes?
Osborne delivered at least two omnishambles budgets yet Cameron left him in the job.
I cant remember things being so polarised politically between two groups with irreconcilable views, with the leftist group unambigouusly out of power and unable to change anything since the heady days of the early to mid 80s and Thatchers decision to have US nuclear cruise missiles here to guardiano-cnd type outrage.
Although I was a nipper back then, from what I know of it, Labour are in a worse position now than they were then.
As for the Conservatives: it's too early to tell if May is another Thatcher or Heath, or somewhere in between. I would not assume that her government will be an assiduously right-wing one, especially with the problems of Brexit hanging over it like Domocles' Sword.
We could easily end up with both Labour and the Conservatives split and fighting internally rather than each other.
Cameron was a combination of Blair and Heath, May is a combination of Thatcher and Major
That's a good spot.
Indeed, she is where she needs to be in the present climate
I've just been watching Clive Lewis on Marr. I really can't see why he is being tipped as future Labour leader. He was stumbling over his words.
Well Clive Lewis was trained by the BBC.
By the "racialist" BBC, according to him. In reality, he was so s##t they sacked him.
Labour will in desperation have to clone the DNA of past leaders or leaders in waiting, like Wilson, Healey, Castle, Jenkins and Williams. Only Shirley Williams is still alive; she recently retired from the H of L.
I don't think great minds come into politics (well not the left) as much as in the 20th.C, but why not? Inequality is greater now than when Healey or Williams were in the govt.
Haha Casino....wishful thinking indeed about Osbo becoming the Brexit man.
You are right Osbo is a strategist, but he is an opportunist and young. It is much more likely that he will cheer on the sidelines as the full horror of Brexit comes to pass, and, as the Tory party leadership implodes under a mixture of incompetence, ego, indecision, inability to deal with the unfolding crisis that are looming ahead.
Osbo will pick up the pieces then and be vindicated that he was right all along rather than having to take any crap from the likes of you and your rightwing ideological comrades. I would suggest Churchill is a better example for Osbo to draw on.
Brexit is Osborne's future, just as it is for all of the rest of us.
If he ever wants to be leader he has to play his part in shaping it. Hiding in the shadows before emerging with a smile to say 'told you so' might be good for the pundit circuit, or a single-issue backbencher, but not for an ambitious politician looking to the future. He can't be the anti Bill Cash.
None of the issues that underlay the vote, or, indeed, the result of the vote itself, are going to go away. He has to demonstrate that he now understands this and will engage with it to make it a success.
If tyson's scenario comes to pass - and it isn't impossible - it won't be another Tory to whom people turn. The Tory party as a whole is tied to the whole referendum/exit escapade and if it fails, they all go down with it.
I'd love to think this was true Ian, but the Tory Party is the last great tribe. I'm not sure what would have to happen to get it below 25%.
Osborne's clear interest now is in letting the car crash unfold. I'll be happy to join him in the stands for that.
I've just been watching Clive Lewis on Marr. I really can't see why he is being tipped as future Labour leader. He was stumbling over his words.
Well Clive Lewis was trained by the BBC.
By the "racialist" BBC, according to him. In reality, he was so s##t they sacked him.
Labour will in desperation have to clone the DNA of past leaders or leaders in waiting, like Wilson, Healey, Castle, Jenkins and Williams. Only Shirley Williams is still alive; she recently retired from the H of L.
I don't think great minds come into politics (well not the left) as much as in the 20th.C, but why not? Inequality is greater now than when Healey or Williams were in the govt.
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
So who did Cameron's "base" vote for in 2010, if they are the reason he didn't get a majority then - Nick Clegg?
Some voted for UKIP, some did not vote (there was a higher turnout in 2015 than 2010) and of course ironically he won more LD voters in 2015 than he did in 2010 on a more rightwing platform
Been saying this for a while. There is nowhere near enough talent in the government to allow George to go to waste. If we were cruising along in normal times it may be that his undoubted negatives would outweigh this but these are not normal times. May needs all the help she get.
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
Lets make PB great again!
Francis Urquhart's reply to you is class.....there are times when you cannot help admire the intelligence of some of our posters.
BTW....poor show thumping the Clarets. I have taken on the cause of the Clarets as my second team.
Leicester are looking to be the team they were last season. Transfer window uncertainty is over and the post victory hangover has cleared. Two 3 nil victories in a row is quite a confidence booster.
It will be our (really quite decent) reserve in action on Tuesday in the League cup, though Chelsea are likely to field a lot of first teamers after Fridays poor performance. They are not using Kante well.
Islam Slimani is a fans favourite already. A quicker, younger Ibrahamovic style player who looked as if he had played with Vardy for years (he has with Mahrez). There is even a half serious discussion on the fans site as to whether "Allah Akbhar Slimani" that the Algerians sing should be adopted*!
Burnley were ok first half when they parked the bus, but after they conceded they were clueless. It is going to be a long season for them.
* Leicester's first goal was very multifaith: a Christian (Fuchs) cross and an Islam (Slimani) header.
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
To support your view. From early 2001, when he was just a hopeful parliamentary candidate, to spring 2004, by which time he was deputy chairman of his party, David Cameron wrote a series of fortnightly diaries .......in the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/Columnists/Archive/0,,649666,00.html
Yes, I think SamCam may also have had something to do with it, socially their circle was more likely to include Guardian readers I imagine than those who read the Mail
Hitchens has had some praise for May though over grammars. In fact she is the only PM I have ever read him have virtually anything positive to say about ever. He and Oborne despise Blair and Cameron and they reflect a generally much more positive line in the Mail towards the PM than her predecessor (in contrast to the Times)
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
The Conservative route to power always starts with reassuring Mail readers followed by winning over Sun readers.
Those who suggest alternate ways are often showing what they think of Mail and/or Sun readers.
It is not obvious to me that Osborne is a master strategist. A majority in 2010 was the tories' to lose and they lost it. The omnishambles budget was a monumental own goal (I suppose you could argue that it was a fiscal and economic cockup rather than a strategic one). What were his strategic successes?
Osborne delivered at least two omnishambles budgets yet Cameron left him in the job.
Nonsense.. The media tried to turn the pasty debate into an "omnishambles" but it wasn't..
Theresa May, it seems, couldn't resist twisting the knife as she dealt the blow. She seems to be a remarkably poor people manager. With a majority of 12, she can't afford to be alienating influential and able MPs, even if she doesn't trust them as far as she could throw them.
As @Casino_Royale notes, the government is weaker without George Osborne. One of the many ill effects of the Leave vote was to weaken the ability of the government considerably. But since Leavers are tired of experts, that is no doubt not a concern that troubles the winners.
Politics can get personal. But it's in the nature of politics that politicians do personal reconciliations when they need to.
I had very few good words to say about Osborne at the end of June. I am now open minded about him.
But he has to meet us Brexiters in the middle.
You willed the impoverishment of the quality of government in pursuit of an oddball obsession. Having achieved the second, you now repent of the first. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Whether you agree with the vote being held in the first place, or not, or the verdict, the referendum was lost by Remain fair and square, despite having every advantage. No matter which side ministers or MPs campaigned on the attention of all should now be focussed on forming the best Government possible to take the country forwards.
Nick Boles is a good model for Osborne to follow in this regard.
WTF? I've just seen Sky's report on the reactions of Trump vs Hillary - they've EDITED it to make it look like Trump jumped the gun to say it was a bomb. Hillary said exactly the same thing on her plane - it's in the footage I posted earlier.
I expect CNN to do this - and they did. Now Sky here?!? I'm very unimpressed.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
Given that GO was closely involved in the Renegotiation with Brussels that killed both his and Cameron's careers stone dead, Theresa May would go through the whole phone book looking for an alternative before she dialled up Osborne's number.
The only way Osborne gets close to power again requires him to come through the revolving doors that May is leaving from.
My reading of Osborne is that he's all about realpolitik and happy to be flexible if that's what is required. That's what allowed him to move from matching new labour spending, to age of austerity, to tax cuts, to long-term economic plan, and then to a Blue Labour approach in the autumn of last year.
His biggest flaw is bearing personal antipathies and dislike of the Right. This all hinges on him learning some lessons, and being the bigger man.
He is bright enough to do so. Question is: can he bring himself to do so?
I think the problem here lies with May rather than Osborne. It appears that she holds grudges - maybe with some justification - but if the PM cannot be the bigger person here then no-one can.
Yes, May has the Mail, Sun and Telegraph on-side - the commentariat less so - we had a vote recently - did the commentariat win that?
She is undoutably going to be marmite in the way that Thatcher was. She is clearly far more right wing in a traditional way than the liberal 'wet' wing of the Tory party and the commontariat realised.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
The key is Cameron spent his first year trying to win over the Guardian, May has focused on the Mail. Which is why I expect May to outlast Dave as PM. May knows that to win an election you need to reassure your base first then reach out (plus the Mail's readership is more than that of the Guardian and Times combined), Cameron started off trying to reassure people who would never vote for him anyway thus he failed to win a majority initially in 2010 and when he really needed his base in and after the EU referendum in particular, the majority deserted him
To support your view. From early 2001, when he was just a hopeful parliamentary candidate, to spring 2004, by which time he was deputy chairman of his party, David Cameron wrote a series of fortnightly diaries .......in the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/Columnists/Archive/0,,649666,00.html
Yes, I think SamCam may also have had something to do with it, socially their circle was more likely to include Guardian readers I imagine than those who read the Mail
One good reason he failed to win a majority in 2010 and only scraped on un 2015 out of fear of the SNP being in official or unofficial?coalition with Labour.
I voted kipper in 2015 but will vote Tory in 2020 under May.
Haha Casino....wishful thinking indeed about Osbo becoming the Brexit man.
You are right Osbo is a strategist, but he is an opportunist and young. It is much more likely that he will cheer on the sidelines as the full horror of Brexit comes to pass, and, as the Tory party leadership implodes under a mixture of incompetence, ego, indecision, inability to deal with the unfolding crisis that are looming ahead.
Osbo will pick up the pieces then and be vindicated that he was right all along rather than having to take any crap from the likes of you and your rightwing ideological comrades. I would suggest Churchill is a better example for Osbo to draw on.
Brexit is Osborne's future, just as it is for all of the rest of us.
If he ever wants to be leader he has to play his part in shaping it. Hiding in the shadows before emerging with a smile to say 'told you so' might be good for the pundit circuit, or a single-issue backbencher, but not for an ambitious politician looking to the future. He can't be the anti Bill Cash.
None of the issues that underlay the vote, or, indeed, the result of the vote itself, are going to go away. He has to demonstrate that he now understands this and will engage with it to make it a success.
If tyson's scenario comes to pass - and it isn't impossible - it won't be another Tory to whom people turn. The Tory party as a whole is tied to the whole referendum/exit escapade and if it fails, they all go down with it.
I don't think that follows. If the alternative is worse, in this case, Corbyn's Labour, then the Tories will be re-elected.
Brexit is Osborne's future, just as it is for all of the rest of us.
If he ever wants to be leader he has to play his part in shaping it. Hiding in the shadows before emerging with a smile to say 'told you so' might be good for the pundit circuit, or a single-issue backbencher, but not for an ambitious politician looking to the future. He can't be the anti Bill Cash.
None of the issues that underlay the vote, or, indeed, the result of the vote itself, are going to go away. He has to demonstrate that he now understands this and will engage with it to make it a success.
There is more than one version of "success"
To the Leadbangers, Hard Brexit followed by penury is success.
To others, rescuing the country from the smoking ruins of Hard Brexit would be success
Being a master strategist, I suspect, is a bit like marketing - if people can see you running toward them with a big sign saying 'I'M A MASTER STRATEGIST' - you aren't one. Strategy depends upon subtlety - knowing when to hold back and when to deal the knockout blow. From everything we know about Osborne, he didn't do this. He was actually rather rude to everyone and made sure they knew they were his social inferiors.
In this regard he really is the heir to Mandelson, another 'master strategist'. Both exceedingly enamoured of money, influence, and international institutions, both enjoyed slithering around doing their best impression of Darth Vader, but when it came down to it, all either of them were doing was playing silly, ineffectual parlour games. In doing that, Osborne also utterly neglected his duty as Chancellor to put Britain's economy on a secure footing.
There is simply no question in 2016 to which Osborne is the answer. He's had it, and good riddance.
Comments
You are right Osbo is a strategist, but he is an opportunist and young. It is much more likely that he will cheer on the sidelines as the full horror of Brexit comes to pass, and, as the Tory party leadership implodes under a mixture of incompetence, ego, indecision, inability to deal with the unfolding crisis that are looming ahead.
Osbo will pick up the pieces then and be vindicated that he was right all along rather than having to take any crap from the likes of you and your rightwing ideological comrades. I would suggest Churchill is a better example for Osbo to draw on.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/09/17/bomb-bombings-hillary-clinton-calls-nyc-explosions-slams-trump-bomb/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKA9L6IQvoQ
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-hillary-clinton-does-not-want-to-abolish-the-second-amendment/2016/08/10/88163ab6-5f38-11e6-af8e-54aa2e849447_story.html
Trump with a 33% chance of actually being ahead. Could be an underestimate.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3794813/LIZ-JONES-Rural-life-better-No-s-sexist-cruel-lonely.html
All that been said not what you expect from POTUS.
Give us a T, give us an R, give us a U, give us an M, give us a P...... What have we got....TRUMP!! Yeah....
I thought I'd join up with you Plato comrade for a spot of mindless and relentless cheerleading for Donald on this site. Very therapeutic.
My wife and I are away in Scotland for the weekend for a break (shamefully we are only just emerging now) and I didn't expect it to be up so soon!
I think the codes attacks on May were a mistake. The only way this works is if he shows loyalty to her, shows he has now accepted the referendum result and wants to help make it work.
If it's about sniping from the sidelines and waiting for her to fail and fall, I think he was little to no chance because that's the sort of behaviour that led to him losing office in the first place.
His biggest flaw is bearing personal antipathies and dislike of the Right. This all hinges on him learning some lessons, and being the bigger man.
He is bright enough to do so. Question is: can he bring himself to do so?
"We also want to be up front in saying that there is no evidence at this point of a terror connection to this incident," he added.
What a stupid thing to say...you don't just find several IEDs in a major city just from some one larking about. I think what he really means to say is no connection to Islamic terrorism at this stage.
He has been given the poisoned chalice.
Osborne shouldn't have been sacked. He could have been Foreign Secretary / leading Brexit negotiations.
As it is, Boris is only in there because May fears his popularity. But Boris could have been bought off with any old thing after his very public humiliation (party chairman?).
That would have left May freer to focus on domestic reform.
Instead she seems to minded to lead Brexit and home affairs at once, slapping down the ministers nominally responsible.
It will end in tears.
Osborne, though unlikeable, can count on the support or at least sympathy of both exiled Cameroonians and a large chunk of Blairites.
A fear of the economic damage of a hard Brexit could quite easily see Osborne place himself at the head of this loose movement.
If Corbyn really does go ahead with his insane plans to hand over shadow cabinet selection to members, then a large chunk of the Labour PLP have nothing left to lose.
The opportunity to fight against hard Brexit gives them the opportunity to fight for the national interest, and they could coalesce behind an Osbornite attempt to wreck Brexit.
I had very few good words to say about Osborne at the end of June. I am now open minded about him.
But he has to meet us Brexiters in the middle.
1m45s
'His health is excellent, particularly his mental health' (Laughs).
But the political landscape has fundamentally changed, and Brexit is the future of this country.
If he ever wants back he has to demonstrate that he will do his best to make it as much of a success as possible.
I voted remain, and I want anyone but Trump for president, but the sight of your giocattoli leaving the carrozina always has a powerful consoling effect. Thank you!
As for the Conservatives: it's too early to tell if May is another Thatcher or Heath, or somewhere in between. I would not assume that her government will be an assiduously right-wing one, especially with the problems of Brexit hanging over it like Domocles' Sword.
We could easily end up with both Labour and the Conservatives split and fighting internally rather than each other.
http://tinyurl.com/zsx6lcm
She'll grow into the role but she's had a reasonable start. Hinkley Point wasn't great but other than that she's been good.
She certainly doesn't need to start hitting the panic button and bringing back the like's of Osborne at this stage.
Asking him to come back into Govt now is akin to asking Hilary Benn to rejoin Corbyn, admitting he was wrong, admitting that Corbyn will lead Labour to a great triumph.
At the moment we have ideological movements running both our great parties. Ultimately pragmatism will return and both will track to the centre after the country gets the fallout from Brexit. The likes of Osbo, Nicky Morgan, Chukka, Ed Balls, Dave Miliband, are young. Time is on their side.
- if they had thought a little deeper, her finding the time to attend an Anglican Church every Sunday despite the time pressures of a great office of state was a huge giveaway.
So now they are alighting on every problem she fwces and every error she makes as it gives them hope that she may fall before all is lost - however in reality it is little more than wishful thinking. The unionists and sinn fein abstension gives her a real majority of about 40 and the opposition is heavily fractured and some of them are barred from voting on some issues.
BTW....poor show thumping the Clarets. I have taken on the cause of the Clarets as my second team.
That this is still very keenly felt several months after the vote shows just how bitter it became.
FWIW, I, like many of my fellow Brexiteers and those on the Right, don't particularly share George Osborne's politics.
The point of my article isn't that I do (I don't) it's that George Osborne's talents could be turned to our advantage (and that of the country) if they were used to strengthen the PM's hand during the Brexit negotiations, but it would require him to show he was the bigger man and on the same page first.
And that there were no hard feelings.
In social morality terms she is right wing. But willing to compromise if it cause a lot of upset (hence supporting Gay Marriage).
She is after all a devout vicars daughter.
So think. What would a traditional but middle of the road (ie not uber high or low) c of e vicar do in number 10 and you will get a steer.
Osborne's abilities appear to be greatly over-rated, primarily by the man himself...
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/theresa.may.quiet.christian.from.the.heart.of.middle.england/90428.htm
'And here lies the contradiction at the heart of May's agenda: she is at once moral conservative and social liberal. This contrast has been evident during her time as Home Secretary since 2010. A steady hand at the notoriously turbulent Department, May was increasingly tough-talking on immigration. Yet she also did more than any other Home Secretary since Kenneth Clarke in attempting to reform the police, for years finding herself at loggerheads with the conservative Police Federation over police corruption and misuse of stop-and-search. Dismissed as authoritarian and "illiberal" by the evangelical Christian Lib Dem leader Tim Farron this week, she has nonetheless gained the support of Tory heavyweight civil libertarian David Davis MP....
On behalf of the Catholics, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, who has worked closely with May on human trafficking issues, wrote to her this morning to say: "I am personally delighted at your appointment. I know from the work we have done together that you have so many qualities to bring to the service of our countries at this time. I appreciate the maturity of judgement, the steely resolve, the sense of justice and the personal integrity and warmth you have always shown."
As an attempt to get some kudos from the right wing of her party, it will work in the short term *if* she actually follows it up. But it will make a messy education system even messier, and store many problems for the future.
If only she could have made it part of a 'proper' education policy. But now that she's announced this, any attempts to fix the system's real problems will be seen in the light of grammar schools.
If Cameron and the government didn't want to hear the answer they shouldn't' have asked the question.
Like I said at the time, Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the voters... And lost!
As we watch the progressive ethos of the last 30 years get comprehensively torn down brick by brick, the catty insults reach new peaks.
Somebody's going to be throwing their high heels soon.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/Columnists/Archive/0,,649666,00.html
If he ever wants to be leader he has to play his part in shaping it. Hiding in the shadows before emerging with a smile to say 'told you so' might be good for the pundit circuit, or a single-issue backbencher, but not for an ambitious politician looking to the future. He can't be the anti Bill Cash.
None of the issues that underlay the vote, or, indeed, the result of the vote itself, are going to go away. He has to demonstrate that he now understands this and will engage with it to make it a success.
You can also add that the whole 'Cameron Project' formulated by Osborne was predicated on the economy being strong and there being plenty of money for spending increases and tax rises. Hence Osborne's 'rabbit in the headlights' non-performance in 2008-9.
The Conservative majority in 2015 came as a surprise to Osborne and was based upon factors out of his control - the weakness of EdM, the rise of the SNP and UKIP eating into Labour's wwc vote because of immigration.
And I don't think anyone could describe Osborne's EU referendum campaign as a strategic success.
I don't think great minds come into politics (well not the left) as much as in the 20th.C, but why not? Inequality is greater now than when Healey or Williams were in the govt.
Osborne's clear interest now is in letting the car crash unfold. I'll be happy to join him in the stands for that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3794667/Who-glamorous-new-assistant-comrade-Jeremy-Corbyn-hires-friend-s-27-year-old-daughter-40-000-year-political-adviser.html
It will be our (really quite decent) reserve in action on Tuesday in the League cup, though Chelsea are likely to field a lot of first teamers after Fridays poor performance. They are not using Kante well.
Islam Slimani is a fans favourite already. A quicker, younger Ibrahamovic style player who looked as if he had played with Vardy for years (he has with Mahrez). There is even a half serious discussion on the fans site as to whether "Allah Akbhar Slimani" that the Algerians sing should be adopted*!
Burnley were ok first half when they parked the bus, but after they conceded they were clueless. It is going to be a long season for them.
* Leicester's first goal was very multifaith: a Christian (Fuchs) cross and an Islam (Slimani) header.
Those who suggest alternate ways are often showing what they think of Mail and/or Sun readers.
Nick Boles is a good model for Osborne to follow in this regard.
Politics should be for grown ups.
I voted kipper in 2015 but will vote Tory in 2020 under May.
Nah.
The regressives won't win.
To the Leadbangers, Hard Brexit followed by penury is success.
To others, rescuing the country from the smoking ruins of Hard Brexit would be success
In this regard he really is the heir to Mandelson, another 'master strategist'. Both exceedingly enamoured of money, influence, and international institutions, both enjoyed slithering around doing their best impression of Darth Vader, but when it came down to it, all either of them were doing was playing silly, ineffectual parlour games. In doing that, Osborne also utterly neglected his duty as Chancellor to put Britain's economy on a secure footing.
There is simply no question in 2016 to which Osborne is the answer. He's had it, and good riddance.