1. Who hurts most if there is no deal and we revert to WTO rules? Clearly the EU, as there is such a trade imbalance,
No, for the same reason you just rejected.
We get tariffs on 40% of our stuff, and they get tariffs on 10% of their stuff.
We hurt More than they do
But they can ill afford that 10% and the complete cessation of our EU fees (they would still get most of them if we stay in EEA).
Makes it a useful enough bargaining chip to ensure we get an ETFA/EEA deal involving cash (from us to them) for lack of free movement of low paid EU workers.
Disqualifying EU migrating workers from Benefits until they had been here 5 years unless their home country offered benefits at least 80% of what the UL offers and from NHS unless they pay for it via private insurance or their country of origin offers equivalent benefits, would eliminate those coming here for low paid work, while not affecting those with skills (e.g. nurses) and not impact the likes of Germany and France at all.
But the point that Richard has been making (I think!) is that the EU is simply not in a position to make such deals. This would require a treaty change, which would in turn require the assent of every one of the 27 remaining member states. It's just not going to happen.
Liechtenstein is 160 square km, which is smaller than Charles's living room. They get a pass on FoM for what I hope are blindingly obvious reasons.
PS Pedantry drives me to add that Liechtenstein is one of only two doubly landlocked countries in the world. All the more reason for its exceptionalism!
German officials anonymously briefing that the 'no pre-negotiation' stance on A50 will need to be dropped and that the two year negotiation period for exit will need to be extended.
The twentieth century was marked by Germany serially under-estimated British resolve.
Seems maybe they are finally realising they shouldn't make the same mistake in the twenty first....
No, it's German officials being more realistic than those of the EU bureaucracy and of many of the other countries. However, we unfortunately can't negotiate only with Germany. It's an utter shambles, and I think the markets and business are hugely underestimating the scale of the problem.
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
I don't think that is what Richard is saying. The problem is that the EU is horrendously difficult to get a decision from and negotiations with the kind of detail we are going to need become almost impossible. It is why they don't have trade deals with the US and China. It is one of the reasons why we will be better off out in the medium term. But it is also one of the reasons that negotiating an agreement with them in the sort of timescale now being discussed is going to be pretty much impossible.
I really think we should aim for an outline agreement from the start. Even that is going to be difficult.
It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.
The incipient trade deals from countries all around the world (which have even astonished me) will certainly help us with this.
Does anyone have a link to the running total of countries looking to do trade deals with us? I am sure it must be approaching two dozen by now.
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
Also known in her constituency as 'The Tory Trollop'!
This from the 'Turnip Taliban' of deepest Norfolk?
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
''It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.''
If the negotiations are anywhere near as arduous as Mr Nabavi claims then I have a feeling we might do that anyway, out of sheer frustration.
ITV news featuring a report about the return of rickets. Why are things like this happening in the 21st century?
Because people are eating crap processed food instead of fresh fruit and veg.
Wrong. Vitamin D is synthesised from sunlight; the only foods with appreciable quantities of the stuff in them, are those which have been artificially fortified with it.
The twentieth century was marked by Germany serially under-estimated British resolve.
Seems maybe they are finally realising they shouldn't make the same mistake in the twenty first....
.
I don't think that is what Richard is saying. The problem is that the EU is horrendously difficult to get a decision from and negotiations with the kind of detail we are going to need become almost impossible. It is why they don't have trade deals with the US and China. It is one of the reasons why we will be better off out in the medium term. But it is also one of the reasons that negotiating an agreement with them in the sort of timescale now being discussed is going to be pretty much impossible.
I really think we should aim for an outline agreement from the start. Even that is going to be difficult.
It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.
The incipient trade deals from countries all around the world (which have even astonished me) will certainly help us with this.
It means that we need to be clear minded and focussed on what our priorities are from the start, that we do what we can to avoid matters getting bogged down in detail, that we work hard to make sure that those who are sympathetic to our positions get what they need to sell the deal to the remainder of the EU, that we find a way of parking difficult issues for future resolution and, as you say, we have clear contingency plans for what we do if we fail.
In litigation the most difficult cases to settle are where you cannot find anyone on the other side with the ability to say yes or no. This is going to be like that and we need to be prepared for it from the very beginning.
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
Also known in her constituency as 'The Tory Trollop'!
This from the 'Turnip Taliban' of deepest Norfolk?
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
''It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.''
If the negotiations are anywhere near as arduous as Mr Nabavi claims then I have a feeling we might do that anyway, out of sheer frustration.
I suggested a couple of weeks ago that, if the EU cannot negotiate nicely with us, that might be the best medium-term strategy: realize that the EU will not negotiate the best mutual deal at this point as they 'cannot be seen to be too nice to us'; walk back to WTO rules now, negotiate tons of bilateral deals with others; come back in 2-3 years time to negotiate a Canada plus arrangement when mutual interests are no longer blinded by the sting of Brexit.
1. Who hurts most if there is no deal and we revert to WTO rules? Clearly the EU, as there is such a trade imbalance,
No, for the same reason you just rejected.
We get tariffs on 40% of our stuff, and they get tariffs on 10% of their stuff.
We hurt More than they do
But they can ill afford that 10% and the complete cessation of our EU fees (they would still get most of them if we stay in EEA).
Makes it a useful enough bargaining chip to ensure we get an ETFA/EEA deal involving cash (from us to them) for lack of free movement of low paid EU workers.
Disqualifying EU migrating workers from Benefits until they had been here 5 years unless their home country offered benefits at least 80% of what the UL offers and from NHS unless they pay for it via private insurance or their country of origin offers equivalent benefits, would eliminate those coming here for low paid work, while not affecting those with skills (e.g. nurses) and not impact the likes of Germany and France at all.
But the point that Richard has been making (I think!) is that the EU is simply not in a position to make such deals. This would require a treaty change, which would in turn require the assent of every one of the 27 remaining member states. It's just not going to happen.
Liechtenstein is 160 square km, which is smaller than Charles's living room. They get a pass on FoM for what I hope are blindingly obvious reasons.
PS Pedantry drives me to add that Liechtenstein is one of only two doubly landlocked countries in the world. All the more reason for its exceptionalism!
Uzbekistan, since no one else has said it.
Has someone changed the rules to Mornington Crescent?
A possibly uninteresting counterfactual question just occurred to me:
If David Cameron had professed neutrality at the start of the referendum campaign, would Boris have made the same calculation, or would he have instead tried to front Remain?
1. Who hurts most if there is no deal and we revert to WTO rules? Clearly the EU, as there is such a trade imbalance,
No, for the same reason you just rejected.
We get tariffs on 40% of our stuff, and they get tariffs on 10% of their stuff.
We hurt More than they do
But they can ill afford that 10% and the complete cessation of our EU fees (they would still get most of them if we stay in EEA).
Makes it a useful enough bargaining chip to ensure we get an ETFA/EEA deal involving cash (from us to them) for lack of free movement of low paid EU workers.
Disqualifying EU migrating workers from Benefits until they had been here 5 years unless their home country offered benefits at least 80% of what the UL offers and from NHS unless they pay for it via private insurance or their country of origin offers equivalent benefits, would eliminate those coming here for low paid work, while not affecting those with skills (e.g. nurses) and not impact the likes of Germany and France at all.
But the point that Richard has been making (I think!) is that the EU is simply not in a position to make such deals. This would require a treaty change, which would in turn require the assent of every one of the 27 remaining member states. It's just not going to happen.
Liechtenstein is 160 square km, which is smaller than Charles's living room. They get a pass on FoM for what I hope are blindingly obvious reasons.
PS Pedantry drives me to add that Liechtenstein is one of only two doubly landlocked countries in the world. All the more reason for its exceptionalism!
Uzbekistan, since no one else has said it.
Has someone changed the rules to Mornington Crescent?
How about Tajikistan? Seem to recall one of my sons tearing his hair out as he did business with them.
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
Also known in her constituency as 'The Tory Trollop'!
This from the 'Turnip Taliban' of deepest Norfolk?
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
No lies by Leave then?
Mr OKC, I suggest that you are on to a loser if you keep this whining about "Leave lies". Take the beam out of your own eye before complaining about the mote in others.
I've had more than 40 years of listening to Europhile lies - and I'm quite frankly sick to the back teeth of it.
Do Corbyn's comments today imply he is not even going to try to stop the boundary changes?
Of course they have a reasonable chance of going through anyway but far from certain that they would pass both Commons and Lords.
But if Labour don't oppose them (or don't seriously oppose them - eg don't make a 100% effort to maximise attendance on the day in the Lords) then they would be almost guaranteed to go through.
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
Also known in her constituency as 'The Tory Trollop'!
This from the 'Turnip Taliban' of deepest Norfolk?
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
Anything that is going to bring my next Audi down to a more reasonable price is good news to me.
I'm sure Charles' next Porsche will be a bargain.
I've never had a Porsche! I drive a 15 year old bmw... don't believe in spending money on myself.
St Charles, you bet. Lol.
My car works and gets me where I want to go in reasonable comfort. Why do I need to spend a fortune on an uncomfortable status symbol?
Indeed. I drive a really crap car as it works, is cheap to run and I cannot bring myself to purchase what would be a depreciating asset. Although I will at some point purchase a classic car for the weekends.
ITV news featuring a report about the return of rickets. Why are things like this happening in the 21st century?
Because people are eating crap processed food instead of fresh fruit and veg.
Is there any vitamin D in fruit and veg? I thought it was fish and eggs. Wouldn't be the first time.e I was wrong though.
Vitamin D is made by the body when exposed to sunlight and is contained in some foods. It needs metabolizing within the liver to be biologically active.
Latest findings in the US have led to the Institute of Medicine revising down the amount of Vitamin D required in diet, and the amount of time required outside to just 10 minutes daily to get sufficient Vitamin D. It advises against taking supplements, noting that anything over 2000 IUs per day starts to do damage to the body, and that damage rapidly increases over 4000 IUs. In essence, its advice is that if you are healthy and getting minimal sun exposure, you really don't have to worry about Vitamin D.
From the NIH, slightly different advice: "approximately 5–30 minutes of sun exposure between 10 AM and 3 PM at least twice a week to the face, arms, legs, or back without sunscreen usually lead to sufficient vitamin D synthesis and that the moderate use of commercial tanning beds that emit 2%–6% UVB radiation is also effective. Individuals with limited sun exposure need to include good sources of vitamin D in their diet or take a supplement to achieve recommended levels of intake"
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
No lies by Leave then?
Mr OKC, I suggest that you are on to a loser if you keep this whining about "Leave lies". Take the beam out of your own eye before complaining about the mote in others.
I've had more than 40 years of listening to Europhile lies - and I'm quite frankly sick to the back teeth of it.
Neither side was simon pure during the campaign, I agree.
I just wanted my country to be part of a hopeful internationalist project. Not give the impression of being full of isolationist xenophobes, which is what seem to be the situation now.
ITV news featuring a report about the return of rickets. Why are things like this happening in the 21st century?
Because people are eating crap processed food instead of fresh fruit and veg.
Is there any vitamin D in fruit and veg? I thought it was fish and eggs. Wouldn't be the first time.e I was wrong though.
My bad. Liver and Fish Oil according to Mr Google. Neither of which are consumed much on council estates I suspect.
People who spend their entire lives indoors or in cars probably are at risk as well.
It is particularly acute among people from ethnic minorities due to natural skin pigmentation but is exacerbated by those who constantly cover their skin.
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
No lies by Leave then?
We were selling the sizzle, not sausages.
Indeed, without the sizzle a hotdog is just a dead pig on a stick ...
I suggested a couple of weeks ago that, if the EU cannot negotiate nicely with us, that might be the best medium-term strategy: realize that the EU will not negotiate the best mutual deal at this point as they 'cannot be seen to be too nice to us'; walk back to WTO rules now, negotiate tons of bilateral deals with others; come back in 2-3 years time to negotiate a Canada plus arrangement when mutual interests are no longer blinded by the sting of Brexit.
We might have to do that, although the problem is not them wanting or not wanting to be nice to us, it's getting them to agree amongst themselves.
However, one shouldn't be under any illusions: the WTO route would mean sacrificing large chunks of our car industry, because of the extremely tight supply-chain integration.
I suggested a couple of weeks ago that, if the EU cannot negotiate nicely with us, that might be the best medium-term strategy: realize that the EU will not negotiate the best mutual deal at this point as they 'cannot be seen to be too nice to us'; walk back to WTO rules now, negotiate tons of bilateral deals with others; come back in 2-3 years time to negotiate a Canada plus arrangement when mutual interests are no longer blinded by the sting of Brexit.
We might have to do that, although the problem is not them wanting or not wanting to be nice to us, it's getting them to agree amongst themselves.
However, one shouldn't be under any illusions: the WTO route would mean sacrificing large chunks of our car industry, because of the extremely tight supply-chain integration.
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
Also known in her constituency as 'The Tory Trollop'!
This from the 'Turnip Taliban' of deepest Norfolk?
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
Also known in her constituency as 'The Tory Trollop'!
This from the 'Turnip Taliban' of deepest Norfolk?
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
IMF ‘clowns’ admit they got it wrong with Brexit doom and gloom warnings after saying the British economy will grow faster than Germany and France
International Monetary Fund originally predicted post-Brexit recession but has now announced that economy set to grow by 1.7% this year Ukip MP Douglas Carswell has now labelled IMF officials as 'clowns
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
No lies by Leave then?
Mr OKC, I suggest that you are on to a loser if you keep this whining about "Leave lies". Take the beam out of your own eye before complaining about the mote in others.
I've had more than 40 years of listening to Europhile lies - and I'm quite frankly sick to the back teeth of it.
I just wanted my country to be part of a hopeful internationalist project.
A perfectly respectable aim. One that I can even agree with (surprisingly). I suspect the main difference between us is in our interpretation of what the EU Project actually IS.
Something for a mature discussion over a pint, rather than on a forum where we can only type limited replies in a tangled thread.
Looks like we no longer need to be in single market for bank passporting as states like Singapore now get it providing their own rules are strict enough.
Lack of legal experience. Not that stopped Gove or Grayling.
Oh so it's one rule for the 2 blokes and a different one for the woman. Textbook definition of sexism. Oaf.
To be fair Charlie Falconer, it is rumoured that both Anna Soubry and Dominic Raab refused to serve under Liz Truss for those exact reasons.
She's also very young in comparison to her predecessors and younger than both Soubry (by a mile) and Raab. Some people have problems with working for youngsters. Ego.
People from Norfolk are weird, especially when it comes to sex. Down there sex is a relative thing.
I was in a meeting with a friend and client yesterday talking about a common practice in his industry.
He said "it's a bit like f**king your sister. Everyone does it, but no one likes to talk about it"
I hope you defended your sister's honour.
I chose not to correct his use of English. He is American, after all, and one needs to make allowances.
I wasnt aware that lots of Americans have six fingers and everyone sits on the same side of the church at a wedding but if he was from West Virginia....
IMF ‘clowns’ admit they got it wrong with Brexit doom and gloom warnings after saying the British economy will grow faster than Germany and France
International Monetary Fund originally predicted post-Brexit recession but has now announced that economy set to grow by 1.7% this year Ukip MP Douglas Carswell has now labelled IMF officials as 'clowns
I wish people would actually read the bloody reports before posting this kind of thing. The IMF's benign outlook is quite heavily caveated and is based on an assumption that Brexit negotiations rapidly achieve clarity & that tariffs will not be substantially higher.
While we'll still be in the EU during their forecast period, businesses will be making investment and employment decisions based on the most likely roadmap.
IMF ‘clowns’ admit they got it wrong with Brexit doom and gloom warnings after saying the British economy will grow faster than Germany and France
International Monetary Fund originally predicted post-Brexit recession but has now announced that economy set to grow by 1.7% this year Ukip MP Douglas Carswell has now labelled IMF officials as 'clowns
Heard something interesting today from ex Reservist.
We were discussing the events near airbase in Norfolk and he told me in a matter of fact tone that a few years back there had been arrests outside one of the bases in Norfolk where people in 2 separate vans had been seen watching the base and movements.
He reckons they were prosecuted and got time but I don't recall that.
God is not mocked. Your driving a banger won't deceive Our Lord.
I'm not sure sure what your point is?
I found your boast that you didn't believe in spending money on yourself irresistibly deluded and smug.
ok. If you say so. Just the truth - I have a decent standard of living but could easily spend a lot more on fripperies and more luxury items of I wanted.
Beyond a house, education for my kids and not having to worry about where the next meal is coming from there's not really much point in money. But I guess that's easy for me to say.
Mr Disreali, said "I suspect the main difference between us is in our interpretation of what the EU Project actually IS.”
Whatever it is, it is not, of course IS!
Hoiwever, otherwise I agree with you; recent appearance to the contrary perhaps, in the course of a long life where I have been in many confrontational siiuation, I have rarely, if ever, found an opponent where I could not find some common ground.
Mr Disreali, said I have rarely, if ever, found an opponent where I could not find some common ground.
Probably because you learnt to communicate and debate before Twitter, at a time when actually meeting up with people for conversations, and looking them in the face was de rigeur.
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
Try growing up.
Try it yourself. Also try and stop whining and bleating then about a democratic decision. It's becoming boring and very repetitive. As I said up thread the good points you make are just lost in the bile poured out because you didn't get your own way.
We had a "democratic decision” forty years ago which a few malcontents complained about, then found some lies, half-truths and whinges which, combined with other problems not really related to the matter in hand, enabled said malcontents and those they could dupe to agree with them, to get the people to reverse that decision, to the considerable disadvantage of us all. A result which will require an inordinate amount of Parliamentary and ministerial time to deal with, thus putting more important matters to the back of the queue. Why in God’s name should we not campaign for a re-run? You did.
False analogy. The EU as is isn't the Common Market of 1975.
Leave won because of arrogance like this. There are large numbers of people who are sick of being sneered at in this sort of patronising way.
In the last Conservative manifesto, the main feature was an in/out referendum on the EU. Nobody (except anoraks) can remember any other commitment made by the Tories in 2015.
Had there been no campaigning by either side, Leave would have won by a distance. 'Project Fear' had a big impact with the politically semi-detached---most people.
Matthew Goodwin thinks Leave were ahead by 12% prior to Jo Cox.
The list of countries now queuing up to do trade deals with us shows how the EU was, in many respects, holding us back.
The never-ending UK quest to deepen the single market in services was partly to compensate for that.
German officials anonymously briefing that the 'no pre-negotiation' stance on A50 will need to be dropped and that the two year negotiation period for exit will need to be extended.
The twentieth century was marked by Germany serially under-estimated British resolve.
Seems maybe they are finally realising they shouldn't make the same mistake in the twenty first....
No, it's German officials being more realistic than those of the EU bureaucracy and of many of the other countries. However, we unfortunately can't negotiate only with Germany. It's an utter shambles, and I think the markets and business are hugely underestimating the scale of the problem.
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
I don't think that is what Richard is saying. The problem is that the EU is horrendously difficult to get a decision from and negotiations with the kind of detail we are going to need become almost impossible. It is why they don't have trade deals with the US and China. It is one of the reasons why we will be better off out in the medium term. But it is also one of the reasons that negotiating an agreement with them in the sort of timescale now being discussed is going to be pretty much impossible.
I really think we should aim for an outline agreement from the start. Even that is going to be difficult.
It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.
The incipient trade deals from countries all around the world (which have even astonished me) will certainly help us with this.
Does anyone have a link to the running total of countries looking to do trade deals with us? I am sure it must be approaching two dozen by now.
Australia, New Zealand, US (not Obama), Canada, India, Pakistan, Brazil, China (expression of interest) and South Korea are currently on my list.
What was surreal from the little bit of the GOP conference I saw was speakers continually getting up decrying Hillary/Obama's record in office and their lack of "leadership" abroad and how Trump would restore America's reputation as a Global leader - and then Trump stood up and said he was going full isolationist.
The twentieth century was marked by Germany serially under-estimated British resolve.
Seems maybe they are finally realising they shouldn't make the same mistake in the twenty first....
.
I don't think that is what Richard is saying. The problem is that the EU is horrendously difficult to get a decision from and negotiations with the kind of detail we are going to need become almost impossible. It is why they don't have trade deals with the US and China. It is one of the reasons why we will be better off out in the medium term. But it is also one of the reasons that negotiating an agreement with them in the sort of timescale now being discussed is going to be pretty much impossible.
I really think we should aim for an outline agreement from the start. Even that is going to be difficult.
It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.
The incipient trade deals from countries all around the world (which have even astonished me) will certainly help us with this.
It means that we need to be clear minded and focussed on what our priorities are from the start, that we do what we can to avoid matters getting bogged down in detail, that we work hard to make sure that those who are sympathetic to our positions get what they need to sell the deal to the remainder of the EU, that we find a way of parking difficult issues for future resolution and, as you say, we have clear contingency plans for what we do if we fail.
In litigation the most difficult cases to settle are where you cannot find anyone on the other side with the ability to say yes or no. This is going to be like that and we need to be prepared for it from the very beginning.
Yes. That's what I think May/Davis want to use the next 4-5 months for.
The biggest risk to us is that the Article 50 time period simply times out on us, and the EU uses that to push a sub-standard deal onto the UK. The EU know they have the upper hand here, which is a big part of the reason why they are keen for us to trigger it asap so that can be realised and pour encourager les autres.
We should be clear: a deal should be a win-win, and we have other options, and if no good we will walk away.
I think in reality, we should agree an outline/holding deal inside 2 years, and spend several years more on the details and supplementaries.
German officials anonymously briefing that the 'no pre-negotiation' stance on A50 will need to be dropped and that the two year negotiation period for exit will need to be extended.
The twentieth century was marked by Germany serially under-estimated British resolve.
Seems maybe they are finally realising they shouldn't make the same mistake in the twenty first....
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
I don't think that is what Richard is saying. The problem is that the EU is horrendously difficult to get a decision from and negotiations with the kind of detail we are going to need become almost impossible. It is why they don't have trade deals with the US and China. It is one of the reasons why we will be better off out in the medium term. But it is also one of the reasons that negotiating an agreement with them in the sort of timescale now being discussed is going to be pretty much impossible.
I really think we should aim for an outline agreement from the start. Even that is going to be difficult.
It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.
The incipient trade deals from countries all around the world (which have even astonished me) will certainly help us with this.
Does anyone have a link to the running total of countries looking to do trade deals with us? I am sure it must be approaching two dozen by now.
Australia, New Zealand, US (not Obama), Canada, India, Pakistan, Brazil, China (expression of interest) and South Korea are currently on my list.
Heard something interesting today from ex Reservist.
We were discussing the events near airbase in Norfolk and he told me in a matter of fact tone that a few years back there had been arrests outside one of the bases in Norfolk where people in 2 separate vans had been seen watching the base and movements.
He reckons they were prosecuted and got time but I don't recall that.
There are about 300 arrests per year for terrorism offences in the UK, a lot of attacks are being thwarted, including attacks that are planned to be every bit as bad as anything that has happened elsewhere in Europe.
German officials anonymously briefing that the 'no pre-negotiation' stance on A50 will need to be dropped and that the two year negotiation period for exit will need to be extended.
The twentieth century was marked by Germany serially under-estimated British resolve.
Seems maybe they are finally realising they shouldn't make the same mistake in the twenty first....
The fact you want it to be "an utter shambles" does not make it so and also repeating this ad infinitum also does not make it so. The decision has been made. You don't like the decision and yes we get that, but that's democracy.
You are like the kid that always picks up the football and goes home in a mega strop because they could not get their own way. Instead of constantly talking your country down why don't you just put a small % of that venom into making it work. After all the final outcome is in all our best interests whichever way you voted.
I don't think that is what Richard is saying. The problem is that the EU is horrendously difficult to get a decision from and negotiations with the kind of detail we are going to need become almost impossible. It is why they don't have trade deals with the US and China. It is one of the reasons why we will be better off out in the medium term. But it is also one of the reasons that negotiating an agreement with them in the sort of timescale now being discussed is going to be pretty much impossible.
I really think we should aim for an outline agreement from the start. Even that is going to be difficult.
It's clear to me that in order for the UK to get the best deal from the EU, it is simply going to have to be prepared to walk away - i.e. to fall back on WTO - and have no fear of doing so.
The incipient trade deals from countries all around the world (which have even astonished me) will certainly help us with this.
Does anyone have a link to the running total of countries looking to do trade deals with us? I am sure it must be approaching two dozen by now.
Australia, New Zealand, US (not Obama), Canada, India, Pakistan, Brazil, China (expression of interest) and South Korea are currently on my list.
I suggested a couple of weeks ago that, if the EU cannot negotiate nicely with us, that might be the best medium-term strategy: realize that the EU will not negotiate the best mutual deal at this point as they 'cannot be seen to be too nice to us'; walk back to WTO rules now, negotiate tons of bilateral deals with others; come back in 2-3 years time to negotiate a Canada plus arrangement when mutual interests are no longer blinded by the sting of Brexit.
We might have to do that, although the problem is not them wanting or not wanting to be nice to us, it's getting them to agree amongst themselves.
However, one shouldn't be under any illusions: the WTO route would mean sacrificing large chunks of our car industry, because of the extremely tight supply-chain integration.
I don't see so. UK industry is tightly integrated with industries around the world in countries outside the EU.
The F35 with the USA for a start. And Dyson in Malaysia.
It would mean disruption, tarrifs and paperwork though. But that isn't fatal.
Heard something interesting today from ex Reservist.
We were discussing the events near airbase in Norfolk and he told me in a matter of fact tone that a few years back there had been arrests outside one of the bases in Norfolk where people in 2 separate vans had been seen watching the base and movements.
He reckons they were prosecuted and got time but I don't recall that.
There are about 300 arrests per year for terrorism offences in the UK, a lot of attacks are being thwarted, including attacks that are planned to be every bit as bad as anything that has happened elsewhere in Europe.
Meanwhile, though the confirmation isn't in yet, we must be getting towards 3,000 drowned in the Med this year. We hit 2.5k in May.
I suggested a couple of weeks ago that, if the EU cannot negotiate nicely with us, that might be the best medium-term strategy: realize that the EU will not negotiate the best mutual deal at this point as they 'cannot be seen to be too nice to us'; walk back to WTO rules now, negotiate tons of bilateral deals with others; come back in 2-3 years time to negotiate a Canada plus arrangement when mutual interests are no longer blinded by the sting of Brexit.
We might have to do that, although the problem is not them wanting or not wanting to be nice to us, it's getting them to agree amongst themselves.
However, one shouldn't be under any illusions: the WTO route would mean sacrificing large chunks of our car industry, because of the extremely tight supply-chain integration.
I don't see so. UK industry is tightly integrated with industries around the world in countries outside the EU.
The F35 with the USA for a start. And Dyson in Malaysia.
It would mean disruption, tarrifs and paperwork though. But that isn't fatal.
*waves hands* surely an opportunity for blockchain.
God is not mocked. Your driving a banger won't deceive Our Lord.
I'm not sure sure what your point is?
I found your boast that you didn't believe in spending money on yourself irresistibly deluded and smug.
ok. If you say so. Just the truth - I have a decent standard of living but could easily spend a lot more on fripperies and more luxury items of I wanted.
Beyond a house, education for my kids and not having to worry about where the next meal is coming from there's not really much point in money. But I guess that's easy for me to say.
As someone who had no money for years and now has lots you don't know what you are talking about.
There are countless things you would miss beyond housing, education and food if you were broke.
God is not mocked. Your driving a banger won't deceive Our Lord.
I'm not sure sure what your point is?
I found your boast that you didn't believe in spending money on yourself irresistibly deluded and smug.
ok. If you say so. Just the truth - I have a decent standard of living but could easily spend a lot more on fripperies and more luxury items of I wanted.
Beyond a house, education for my kids and not having to worry about where the next meal is coming from there's not really much point in money. But I guess that's easy for me to say.
As someone who had no money for years and now has lots you don't know what you are talking about.
There are countless things you would miss beyond housing, education and food if you were broke.
Australia, New Zealand, US (not Obama), Canada, India, Pakistan, Brazil, China (expression of interest) and South Korea are currently on my list.
I think there are others too, IIRC.
There were a few nations from Africa too, I believe.
Africa is a continent of huge strategic importance in the next 50 years. Fortunately, we have a ready-to-go organisation with influence in place: the Commonwealth.
We should be making massive efforts there: diplomatic, military, foreign, industrial and trade.
God is not mocked. Your driving a banger won't deceive Our Lord.
I'm not sure sure what your point is?
I found your boast that you didn't believe in spending money on yourself irresistibly deluded and smug.
ok. If you say so. Just the truth - I have a decent standard of living but could easily spend a lot more on fripperies and more luxury items of I wanted.
Beyond a house, education for my kids and not having to worry about where the next meal is coming from there's not really much point in money. But I guess that's easy for me to say.
As someone who had no money for years and now has lots you don't know what you are talking about.
There are countless things you would miss beyond housing, education and food if you were broke.
I suppose I was thinking of all the basics when I mentioned food. But yes, I've always benefited from the knowledge that there's a safety net of things go wrong.
Australia, New Zealand, US (not Obama), Canada, India, Pakistan, Brazil, China (expression of interest) and South Korea are currently on my list.
I think there are others too, IIRC.
There were a few nations from Africa too, I believe.
At this stage, I'm thinking, "so what?". We trade both ways with all these countries already if course: there is no shortage of Australian and NZ wine in my local supermarket, for sure. Whether a trade deal benefits them, us, or what balance in between, depends entirely on the terms. Now they are all coming forward wanting agreements. Good.
Perhaps. I suspect we have put the word out to our friends through diplomatic channels and I suppose it's a clever move to add a little to the pressure on the EU. Equally likely, countries realise our government is going to be keen to secure a number of these agreements quickly, for reasons of political credibility, and as with any negotiation a keen (or desperate) partner is generally willing to offer good terms.
Whether this is to our advantage depends on the detail. After all, consider TTIP - great, you might think, a trade deal with the US - but lots of people are up in arms about the very pro-US terms and think it could be damaging to Europe and the U.K. So maybe not so good?
IMF ‘clowns’ admit they got it wrong with Brexit doom and gloom warnings after saying the British economy will grow faster than Germany and France
International Monetary Fund originally predicted post-Brexit recession but has now announced that economy set to grow by 1.7% this year Ukip MP Douglas Carswell has now labelled IMF officials as 'clowns
I wish people would actually read the bloody reports before posting this kind of thing. The IMF's benign outlook is quite heavily caveated and is based on an assumption that Brexit negotiations rapidly achieve clarity & that tariffs will not be substantially higher.
While we'll still be in the EU during their forecast period, businesses will be making investment and employment decisions based on the most likely roadmap.
Quite and of course but caveat or not it is a different stance from a few weeks ago.
Comments
If the negotiations are anywhere near as arduous as Mr Nabavi claims then I have a feeling we might do that anyway, out of sheer frustration.
In litigation the most difficult cases to settle are where you cannot find anyone on the other side with the ability to say yes or no. This is going to be like that and we need to be prepared for it from the very beginning.
If David Cameron had professed neutrality at the start of the referendum campaign, would Boris have made the same calculation, or would he have instead tried to front Remain?
I agree with the thoughts about WTO btw. I've been advocating that as our fallback for a while. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
People who spend their entire lives indoors or in cars probably are at risk as well.
Take the beam out of your own eye before complaining about the mote in others.
I've had more than 40 years of listening to Europhile lies - and I'm quite frankly sick to the back teeth of it.
Of course they have a reasonable chance of going through anyway but far from certain that they would pass both Commons and Lords.
But if Labour don't oppose them (or don't seriously oppose them - eg don't make a 100% effort to maximise attendance on the day in the Lords) then they would be almost guaranteed to go through.
http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-warns-mps-get-behind-the-party-10508191
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n15/john-lanchester/brexit-blues
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/every-labour-mp-must-fight-for-their-place-warns-corbyn-mg6ghcw7l
Latest findings in the US have led to the Institute of Medicine revising down the amount of Vitamin D required in diet, and the amount of time required outside to just 10 minutes daily to get sufficient Vitamin D. It advises against taking supplements, noting that anything over 2000 IUs per day starts to do damage to the body, and that damage rapidly increases over 4000 IUs. In essence, its advice is that if you are healthy and getting minimal sun exposure, you really don't have to worry about Vitamin D.
From the NIH, slightly different advice: "approximately 5–30 minutes of sun exposure between 10 AM and 3 PM at least twice a week to the face, arms, legs, or back without sunscreen usually lead to sufficient vitamin D synthesis and that the moderate use of commercial tanning beds that emit 2%–6% UVB radiation is also effective. Individuals with limited sun exposure need to include good sources of vitamin D in their diet or take a supplement to achieve recommended levels of intake"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1154211.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/5116438.stm
http://www.channel4.com/news/how-rickets-is-making-a-comeback
However, one shouldn't be under any illusions: the WTO route would mean sacrificing large chunks of our car industry, because of the extremely tight supply-chain integration.
http://www.offshorepost.com/north-sea-energy-spuds-bagpuss-prospect/
IMF ‘clowns’ admit they got it wrong with Brexit doom and gloom warnings after saying the British economy will grow faster than Germany and France
International Monetary Fund originally predicted post-Brexit recession but has now announced that economy set to grow by 1.7% this year
Ukip MP Douglas Carswell has now labelled IMF officials as 'clowns
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3698476/IMF-clowns-admit-got-wrong-Brexit-doom-gloom-warnings-saying-British-economy-grow-faster-Germany-France.html#ixzz4F4MXkOlu
http://dailym.ai/29KktGF
While we'll still be in the EU during their forecast period, businesses will be making investment and employment decisions based on the most likely roadmap.
He is the strongest favourite NOT to go since the market was originally opened many months ago (shortly after he became leader I think).
Last price matched 1.66 - shortest ever (though he can now be backed at 1.68).
We were discussing the events near airbase in Norfolk and he told me in a matter of fact tone that a few years back there had been arrests outside one of the bases in Norfolk where people in 2 separate vans had been seen watching the base and movements.
He reckons they were prosecuted and got time but I don't recall that.
Beyond a house, education for my kids and not having to worry about where the next meal is coming from there's not really much point in money. But I guess that's easy for me to say.
"I suspect the main difference between us is in our interpretation of what the EU Project actually IS.”
Whatever it is, it is not, of course IS!
Hoiwever, otherwise I agree with you; recent appearance to the contrary perhaps, in the course of a long life where I have been in many confrontational siiuation, I have rarely, if ever, found an opponent where I could not find some common ground.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/20/video_newt_gingrich_rnc_speech_about_everyone_dying.html
The list of countries now queuing up to do trade deals with us shows how the EU was, in many respects, holding us back.
The never-ending UK quest to deepen the single market in services was partly to compensate for that.
I think there are others too, IIRC.
The biggest risk to us is that the Article 50 time period simply times out on us, and the EU uses that to push a sub-standard deal onto the UK. The EU know they have the upper hand here, which is a big part of the reason why they are keen for us to trigger it asap so that can be realised and pour encourager les autres.
We should be clear: a deal should be a win-win, and we have other options, and if no good we will walk away.
I think in reality, we should agree an outline/holding deal inside 2 years, and spend several years more on the details and supplementaries.
Ist of 6 on BBC 2 Its the history of the railways... looks v promising
starts in 60 secs!
The F35 with the USA for a start. And Dyson in Malaysia.
It would mean disruption, tarrifs and paperwork though. But that isn't fatal.
There are countless things you would miss beyond housing, education and food if you were broke.
We should be making massive efforts there: diplomatic, military, foreign, industrial and trade.
new thread
Perhaps. I suspect we have put the word out to our friends through diplomatic channels and I suppose it's a clever move to add a little to the pressure on the EU. Equally likely, countries realise our government is going to be keen to secure a number of these agreements quickly, for reasons of political credibility, and as with any negotiation a keen (or desperate) partner is generally willing to offer good terms.
Whether this is to our advantage depends on the detail. After all, consider TTIP - great, you might think, a trade deal with the US - but lots of people are up in arms about the very pro-US terms and think it could be damaging to Europe and the U.K. So maybe not so good?