politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It appears as though there could be a deal on who’ll fight

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

nunu said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Lowlander said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Daily Express using Farenheit...I blame Brexit.

I look forward to the first paper reporting a heatwave in Kelvin!

"Britain to Bake in 308 Degree Heatwave"

Tut tut. The Kelvin scale doesn't have 'degrees'

Some PBers have some shocking knowledge when it comes to science, fortunately you and I are here to educate them, as we saw in yesterday's thread header

SeanT wants us gone you know.

He's gone through this phase before.

I remember when he wanted to intern all Muslims, or anyone who looked like a Muslim

No, you're fine. I just want to slowly and gently remove ALL Muslims who show any kind of adherence to any form of conservative Islam. So we ban sharia, ban niqabs, ban the burqa, close hardline mosques, prohibit new mosques, demolish minarets, completely ban any new Muslim immigration, make prayer hard to do, make halal food illegal, fiercely prosecute cousin marriage, FGM, anti-white pedophile racist gangrape, all that shit you people like. blahblahblah

Basically we make YOUR delightful religious life and traditions very hard to do in OUR country.

If you are willing to stay here after all that, then you can be considered a tolerable element in the UK, and you can stay. If not, bye.

AndyJS said:

Moses_ said:

AndyJS said:

"RAMPAGE IN WÜRZBURG
Afghan (17) attacked by train with ax
++ He shouted "Allahu Akbar" ++ perpetrators shot ++ Three seriously injured ++ 14 passengers in shock ++"

http://www.bild.de/news/2016/amoklauf/amok-wuerzburg-46881746.bild.html

The train attacked the 17 year old Afghan with an axe?

Google Translate isn't perfect but you get the essentials.

AndyJS said:

Moses_ said:

AndyJS said:

"RAMPAGE IN WÜRZBURG
Afghan (17) attacked by train with ax
++ He shouted "Allahu Akbar" ++ perpetrators shot ++ Three seriously injured ++ 14 passengers in shock ++"

http://www.bild.de/news/2016/amoklauf/amok-wuerzburg-46881746.bild.html

The train attacked the 17 year old Afghan with an axe?

Google Translate isn't perfect but you get the essentials.

RobD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Tykejohnno said:

Sky news saying German minister confirming that the attacker on the train was a refugee.

"Danke, Germany for letting me into your wonderful country! Now I'll just attack some of your citizens!"

You have to wonder about the mindset of some of these people.

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

And maybe that's the issue: there are widespread concerns about whether we have got the right approach to / combination of immigration / integration / multi-culturalism etc and some politicians have responded, some more effectively than others (I would credit Cameron with the way he has approached the matter) but very few politicians have suffered electorally as a result of the public's discontent and, therefore, little has changed. In that respect it may be like the EU - never high on the list of people's major concerns but when, finally, the people get to vote on it, the results surprise us.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Lowlander said:

eek said:

vik said:

The "deal" between Smith & Eagle is completely pointless in an AV system, and just makes the leadership plot look even sleazier.

It's not pointless. It avoids the issue that occurred last time round when 3 candidates attacked each other whilst Corbyn sneaked down the left wing..... By the time the other candidates noticed it was too late...

Plus if the election is 1 attempt and out it means you aren't losing all the plausible candidates if they are adopting that multiple attempts approach...

He didn't sneak anywhere. He won a landslide of votes and didn't even need three quidders to win.

I think it is also pretty ridiculous to imagine that Smith and Eagle would not end up attacking one another. The very fact Smith is standing is an attack on Eagle's fitness to lead Labour (and probably a very justified attack).

Cyclefree said:

John_M said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

John_M said:

OldKingCole said:

John_M said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/755155112667078656

Who are these people? Which is worse, a sect or a cult? It's certainly not an actual political party any longer.

There's a parasitic liver fluke that infects ants. Each evening, it manipulates the ant's nervous system to force it to climb up a blade of grass, and then locks its mandibles in place. It repeats this every evening until the ant is eaten by a ruminant. The fluke completes its life cycle within said ruminant.

It's like a parable.

Why, I wonder, did God think of that? An odd thought in the creation process?

Evolution moves in mysterious ways its wonders to perform . The fluke forces the ant down as the sun rises - it dies if the temperature becomes too warm.

Poor ants. They have the most gruesome parasites going.

It's not just ants. We humans may also be susceptible to behaviour modification. There's evidence that the parasite responsible for toxoplasmosis, Toxoplasma gondii, tends to make its carriers more likely to engage in risk-taking behaviour. The parasite is carried by cats and other felines, and is passed on to humans through contact with their faeces.

It's hypothesised that this effect stems from the time when humans were subject to being eaten by lions and other large cats. Increased risk-taking would have made the human carrier more likely to end up as a tiger's dinner, thus completing the life cycle of the parasite.

Cat ownership really can affect your brain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/toxoplasma-gondii-parasite-that-breeds-in-cats-could-affect-human-behaviour-when-it-infects-people-a6861221.html

That's very interesting - I was only vaguely aware of that.

Apparently we're also susceptible to manipulation by our gut bacteria. Having read a lot of Peter Watts, I'm not entirely convinced we're captains of our selves. Much of the time we're merely rationalising actions that something else initiated .

Any cat "owner" knows perfectly well that cats are able to turn humans into their servants.

Lowlander said:

SeanT said:

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.

Islam is a sickening religion, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

Given how your view on Brexit has shifted so often in the past few weeks, can I ask if you have picked a mosque at which you will be converting and pledging your life to Allah?

AndyJS said:

44% of the PLP are women, you'd think that would put Eagle in a very strong position. I'm surprised she's 20/1 with Betfair.

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Been out most of today, I'm assuming this has been mentioned, I do love the choice of Justices

https://twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/755030265928507392

Are you still here?

Like a persistent STD

Go.

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Been out most of today, I'm assuming this has been mentioned, I do love the choice of Justices

https://twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/755030265928507392

Are you still here?

Like a persistent STD

Go.

Pulpstar said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

BigIan said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Moses_ said:

RobD said:

Lowlander said:

RobD said:

Lowlander said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Daily Express using Farenheit...I blame Brexit.

I look forward to the first paper reporting a heatwave in Kelvin!

"Britain to Bake in 308 Degree Heatwave"

Tut tut. The Kelvin scale doesn't have 'degrees'

I was completely unaware of that. Is there an interesting reason why this is? Or is it just some boring Physics reason?

I fear it is the latter

Edit:

The omission of "degree" indicates that it is not relative to an arbitrary reference point like the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales (although the Rankine scale continued to use "degree Rankine"), but rather an absolute unit of measure which can be manipulated algebraically (e.g. multiplied by two to indicate twice the amount of "mean energy" available among elementary degrees of freedom of the system).

Confirmed!

Absolute zero is -273 kelvin. One would presume that is arbitrary reference point?

It is absolute not arbitrary. Electons stop moving at that point.

Actually, it's the atomic nuclei that stop vibrating. The electrons are always moving, insofar as they can be considered to be discrete particles.

Electrons move really well at those temperatures: superconductivity.

Indeed.

Absolute zero can't be achieved, therefore how electrons move (or not) at that temperature is unknowable I think....

SeanT said:

John_M said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

And maybe that's the issue: there are widespread concerns about whether we have got the right approach to / combination of immigration / integration / multi-culturalism etc and some politicians have responded, some more effectively than others (I would credit Cameron with the way he has approached the matter) but very few politicians have suffered electorally as a result of the public's discontent and, therefore, little has changed. In that respect it may be like the EU - never high on the list of people's major concerns but when, finally, the people get to vote on it, the results surprise us.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.

Islam is a sickening religion, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

Yes, but those people will be slightly poorer and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth and libertarians will be dangling from every lamp post. Then they'll be sorry. Just you wait. Oh yes.

This horrible Muslim terrorist shit is fast overtaking any Brexit blues bollocks. It's epochal. Witness the French girl in the press today saying "close the borders, like the English"

Cyclefree said:

FrankBooth said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FrankBooth said:

SeanT said:

Chameleon said:

SeanT said:

Chameleon said:

Why do we reckon the attacker in Germany did what he did?

SeanT said:

I want Muslims to LEAVE. Fuck them. Kick them out. UGH

All of them, every one of them. Let them go hence.

Not really acceptable dear chap. One of easiest ways to turn co-operative integrating muslims into west-hating jihadis is to villanise all of them

If it is another Islamist attack, I stand by my sentiments.

Enough now.

Western policy should be gently oriented towards the ultimate goal of peaceably removing most Muslims from the western world. Let them prosper in the Middle East. Good luck to them. The idea of happy coexistence, between Islam and plural secularity, within a liberal Europe, is a fond delusion. A delusion which has ended.

Except for the faint of brain.

Instead of targeting Muslims we need to target the sources of funding for extreme Islam. Saudi Arabia, until we do that we're fucked. If we cut off the money supply for extreme versions of Islam then Muslims, like most other religions in the UK will slowly become a smaller and smaller part of Muslims' lives.

Delusional. You don't understand religion.

We have to remove them.

Whatever the difficulties have always been with integration, Islamism wasn't a major problem here till the 1980s. The mass propaganda campaign has made a real difference.

Satanic Verses kicked it off, IIRC.

I don't think that can be considered a bolt of lightning that came from nowhere.

Remember Ray Honeyford, long before the Rushdie fatwa? He pointed out the problems there were with having communities living here who refused to integrate and he pointed out the issues with girls being taken out of school to be married to distant cousins who then settled in Britain. And look at all the abuse he got.

And yet if we had listened to him and thought sensibly about what he was saying and acted on it we might have avoided the problems we have had since then. Too many ifs, alas. We are where we are. Still, just because it is difficult now is no excuse for inaction.

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

And maybe that's the issue: there are widespread concerns about whether we have got the right approach to / combination of immigration / integration / multi-culturalism etc and some politicians have responded, some more effectively than others (I would credit Cameron with the way he has approached the matter) but very few politicians have suffered electorally as a result of the public's discontent and, therefore, little has changed. In that respect it may be like the EU - never high on the list of people's major concerns but when, finally, the people get to vote on it, the results surprise us.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.

Islam is a sickening religion, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

Have you ever met any normal Muslims?
Spoiler: They are exactly the same as us.
Stop projecting your unease onto decent people who happen to follow another religion.
Lord knows Christians have enough skeletons in the closet regarding human rights.
This idea that it is because they are Muslims rather than because they are human!
You reactionary fool! It's people that do evil to one another. Not religions.

And I'm an atheist.

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Pulpstar said:

Absolute zero can't be achieved, therefore how electrons move (or not) at that temperature is unknowable I think....

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

'Mohamed Mohamed, Ali Abbari'

Whats with the muslim fashion for using blimmin Mohamed so much as a first and second name ?
Christians don't bother with "Jesus Jesus Christ Smith"...

paulyork64 said:

If the french made all the occupants of the jungle near calais french citizens we couldnt stop them entering the uk could we?

AndyJS said:

Division list for the Trident vote:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-07-18/division/HOCDT20160718DIV46/UKSNuclearDeterrent?outputType=Names

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

'Mohamed Mohamed, Ali Abbari'

Whats with the muslim fashion for using blimmin Mohamed so much as a first and second name ?
Christians don't bother with "Jesus Jesus Christ Smith"...

Jesus is a pretty common name in Spain.

AndyJS said:

I didn't know Crispin Blunt was anti-Trident.

SeanT said:

Monty said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.



Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.

Islam is a sickening religion, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

Have you ever met any normal Muslims?
Spoiler: They are exactly the same as us.
Stop projecting your unease onto decent people who happen to follow another religion.
Lord knows Christians have enough skeletons in the closet regarding human rights.
This idea that it is because they are Muslims rather than because they are human!
You reactionary fool! It's people that do evil to one another. Not religions.

And I'm an atheist.

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Muslims are exactly the same as us - until you start questioning their religion.

Oh do fuck off.
Muslims are good people.
Christians are good people.
Hindus are good people.

Newsflash: There are also bad people from all of the above.

Of COURSE most Muslims are good people. Just like most Germans were good people in 1937. But did we trust Germans in 1937? Or 1940? Or 1944? No. Because their identity had been seized by a diseased ideology which, sadly, made them all untrustworthy.

I doubt that more than 10% of Germans were active Nazis, maybe only 5%. But enough believed, and enough acquiesced, in the perversion of German nationalism that was Hitlerism, to make German-ness itself a threat to western liberty. Such that Germans were automatically interned and mistrusted in the UK, during the war.

We are now VERY close to that happening in Europe, vis a vis Muslims. For the exact same reasons. Their faith has been infected by evil radicalism, and too many Muslims have tacitly tolerated this, for too long.

TheScreamingEagles said:

AndyJS said:

I didn't know Crispin Blunt was anti-Trident.

He wasn't per se, he thinks the money should be spent on our conventional forces

John_M said:

paulyork64 said:

If the french made all the occupants of the jungle near calais french citizens we couldnt stop them entering the uk could we?

No.

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

'Mohamed Mohamed, Ali Abbari'

Whats with the muslim fashion for using blimmin Mohamed so much as a first and second name ?
Christians don't bother with "Jesus Jesus Christ Smith"...

Jesus is a pretty common name in Spain.

That always puzzled me - if the guy was Jewish, how come he had a hispanic name?

FeersumEnjineeya said:

williamglenn said:

John_M said:

SeanT said:

This horrible Muslim terrorist shit is fast overtaking any Brexit blues bollocks. It's epochal. Witness the French girl in the press today saying "close the borders, like the English"

I'm perfectly happy with my vote. Not everyone wants to sell their soul for a mess of pottage.

I feel sorry for the French. Their intelligence services have always been crap, and there's too many of 'em. Added to that, their political leadership is just dire. Hollande would just about scrape through as a mediocre building society manager.

I've peddled this before but FoM is Europe's second amendment issue. Obsoleted by changing times and technology.

Yes and no. It's movement into Europe's external border that people are really concerned about. We need a real 'fortress Europe', protectionism for security rather than economics.

Stopping the movement of people won't stop the movement of ideologies.

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Division list for the Trident vote:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-07-18/division/HOCDT20160718DIV46/UKSNuclearDeterrent?outputType=Names

Crispin Blunt was the only Tory to vote against. I'm surprised there weren't a few more.

Chameleon said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

And maybe that's the issue: there are widespread concerns about whether we have got the right approach to / combination of immigration / integration / multi-culturalism etc and some politicians have responded, some more effectively than others (I would credit Cameron with the way he has approached the matter) but very few politicians have suffered electorally as a result of the public's discontent and, therefore, little has changed. In that respect it may be like the EU - never high on the list of people's major concerns but when, finally, the people get to vote on it, the results surprise us.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.
on, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

Have you ever met any normal Muslims?
Spoiler: They are exactly the same as us.
Stop projecting your unease onto decent people who happen to follow another religion.
Lord knows Christians have enough skeletons in the closet regarding human rights.
This idea that it is because they are Muslims rather than because they are human!
You reactionary fool! It's people that do evil to one another. Not religions.

And I'm an atheist.

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Muslims are exactly the same as us - until you start questioning their religion.

Well that's just a blatant lie, religious muslims defend their religion like religious christians, non-religious muslims defend their faith the same way as non-religions christians.

Cyclefree said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

John_M said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

This horrible Muslim terrorist shit is fast overtaking any Brexit blues bollocks. It's epochal. Witness the French girl in the press today saying "close the borders, like the English"

I get the feeling that the French population are at breaking point. There is no answer that Western governments can give that will calm their fears, they're just waiting for the next attack. The trouble is, radical Islamic groups want us to hate all Muslims, and I can't see how they won't achieve that aim.

It's not answers the French want. Words are easy. It's actions they want.

I don't care what radical Islamic groups want. I certainly don't think we should not do something just because it's what the radical Islamics want us to do. If we do nothing, they think we are weak and if we do something we'll be accused of oppression and our actions will be used to justify whatever they do. We will be blamed regardless. So we should work out the best way of achieving our objectives and get on with it.

And if the peaceful Muslims complain about being vilified in all this, I would say that this is what always happens when the good people in a community do not speak up about the bad people. The bad drives out the good. The innocent suffer. It's not right and it's unfair. But it happens - as it has to plenty of good bankers who did not lie and cheat and commit fraud and waste money. So if the good don't want that unfair vilification to happen they need to make their voices heard and their actions count. Turning a blind eye; saying "I'm not a violent terrorist and I abhor violence and this is not what my religion means" is not enough, however true it is. A culture changes for the better when the people in it take the steps to drive out the bad and change the way they think and behave. Part of the frustration some feel is that they don't see this happening.

All of this may be hugely unfair to lots of people. But at this moment many French people who have seen the bodies of children and others crushed to death by a lorry on their national holiday are not very concerned about being hugely unfair.

brokenwheel said:

John_M said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AndyJS said:

I didn't know Crispin Blunt was anti-Trident.

He wasn't per se, he thinks the money should be spent on our conventional forces

He also favours a cheaper airborne nuclear capability.

Er...we used to have that.

There is a reason we moved to missile-based.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

'Mohamed Mohamed, Ali Abbari'

Whats with the muslim fashion for using blimmin Mohamed so much as a first and second name ?
Christians don't bother with "Jesus Jesus Christ Smith"...

Jesus is a pretty common name in Spain.

That always puzzled me - if the guy was Jewish, how come he had a hispanic name?

That's one for Trump to answer.

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Division list for the Trident vote:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-07-18/division/HOCDT20160718DIV46/UKSNuclearDeterrent?outputType=Names

Crispin Blunt was the only Tory to vote against. I'm surprised there weren't a few more.

It'll be interesting to see how many abstained.

Not many, by the looks of it: 322 voted in favour.

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Division list for the Trident vote:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-07-18/division/HOCDT20160718DIV46/UKSNuclearDeterrent?outputType=Names

Crispin Blunt was the only Tory to vote against. I'm surprised there weren't a few more.

It'll be interesting to see how many abstained.

Not many, by the looks of it: 322 voted in favour.

Monty said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Have you ever met any normal Muslims?
Spoiler: They are exactly the same as us.
Stop projecting your unease onto decent people who happen to follow another religion.
Lord knows Christians have enough skeletons in the closet regarding human rights.
This idea that it is because they are Muslims rather than because they are human!
You reactionary fool! It's people that do evil to one another. Not religions.

And I'm an atheist.

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Muslims are exactly the same as us - until you start questioning their religion.

Oh do fuck off.
Muslims are good people.
Christians are good people.
Hindus are good people.

Newsflash: There are also bad people from all of the above.

AndyJS said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Chameleon said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

And maybe that's the issue: there are widespread concerns about whether we have got the right approach to / combination of immigration / integration / multi-culturalism etc and some politicians have responded, some more effectively than others (I would credit Cameron with the way he has approached the matter) but very few politicians have suffered electorally as a result of the public's discontent and, therefore, little has changed. In that respect it may be like the EU - never high on the list of people's major concerns but when, finally, the people get to vote on it, the results surprise us.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.
on, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

--------

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Muslims are exactly the same as us - until you start questioning their religion.

Well that's just a blatant lie, religious muslims defend their religion like religious christians, non-religious muslims defend their faith the same way as non-religions christians.

What was the Christain equivalent of Charlie Hebdo attacks or the Satanic Verses controversy?

You have to go back a number of centuries to find the Christian equivalent. I was surprised to find out recently that 8 million people died during the 30 Years' War.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

'Mohamed Mohamed, Ali Abbari'

Whats with the muslim fashion for using blimmin Mohamed so much as a first and second name ?
Christians don't bother with "Jesus Jesus Christ Smith"...

Jesus is a pretty common name in Spain.

That always puzzled me - if the guy was Jewish, how come he had a hispanic name?

That's one for Trump to answer.

Because????????

Erm, I presumed you were being facetious, and answered in kind.

AndyJS said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Chameleon said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

And maybe that's the issue: there are widespread concerns about whether we have got the right approach to / combination of immigration / integration / multi-culturalism etc and some politicians have responded, some more effectively than others (I would credit Cameron with the way he has approached the matter) but very few politicians have suffered electorally as a result of the public's discontent and, therefore, little has changed. In that respect it may be like the EU - never high on the list of people's major concerns but when, finally, the people get to vote on it, the results surprise us.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.
on, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

--------

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Muslims are exactly the same as us - until you start questioning their religion.

Well that's just a blatant lie, religious muslims defend their religion like religious christians, non-religious muslims defend their faith the same way as non-religions christians.

What was the Christain equivalent of Charlie Hebdo attacks or the Satanic Verses controversy?

You have to go back a number of centuries to find the Christian equivalent. I was surprised to find out recently that 8 million people died during the 30 Years' War.

AndyJS said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Chameleon said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

If the ZDF report is accurate, Merkel is going to be in big big do do.

Why? She survived the political consequences of all the NY's Eve attacks. Why wouldn't she survive this?

There have been relatively few political consequences of terrorism in Western Europe. About the only example I can think of is the Spanish election result following the Madrid train bombings. And that was in large part because of the wholly inept response by the government. But elsewhere there has been nothing really.

Sure parties like the FN have got more votes but actual power? Changes in policy? Not so much or perhaps not yet.

Maybe this issue will be similar: grumbling for years and years until eventually something snaps. But I dread to think what the '"something snaps" might be in this context.

Brexit was an ENORMOUS "snap" - by the people most likely to be brave, individualistic and proud enough to say FUCK YOU to the elite consensus. The English. I have never been more convinced that my BREXIT vote was morally right.
on, and if Merkel is going to unilaterally let in 1m Muslims a year to Europe, we have no choice but to put up the barriers.

We did right.

--------

Get over yourself.

You have two states of consciousness:
Panic
Hate

Muslims are exactly the same as us - until you start questioning their religion.

Well that's just a blatant lie, religious muslims defend their religion like religious christians, non-religious muslims defend their faith the same way as non-religions christians.

What was the Christain equivalent of Charlie Hebdo attacks or the Satanic Verses controversy?

You have to go back a number of centuries to find the Christian equivalent. I was surprised to find out recently that 8 million people died during the 30 Years' War.

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AndyJS said:

Division list for the Trident vote:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-07-18/division/HOCDT20160718DIV46/UKSNuclearDeterrent?outputType=Names

Crispin Blunt was the only Tory to vote against. I'm surprised there weren't a few more.

It'll be interesting to see how many abstained.

Not many, by the looks of it: 322 voted in favour.

Knock off the two tellers, who don't vote, a couple of MPs in Europe, then its pretty much 99% of Tory MPs in favour

And Eleanor Laing who by convention doesn't vote

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Tim_B said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

This from Ottowa:

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/755164249639485440

'Mohamed Mohamed, Ali Abbari'

Whats with the muslim fashion for using blimmin Mohamed so much as a first and second name ?
Christians don't bother with "Jesus Jesus Christ Smith"...

Jesus is a pretty common name in Spain.

That always puzzled me - if the guy was Jewish, how come he had a hispanic name?

That's one for Trump to answer.

Because????????

Erm, I presumed you were being facetious, and answered in kind.

Me facetious? Where would you get such an idea?

- was hoping you'd have a pithy reason though.....

Chameleon said:

SeanT said:

Monty said:

weejonnie said:

Monty said:

SeanT said:

Cyclefree said:

" A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries & estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, & many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back & let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, & we had lost control, & the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp & the Allies destroyed my factories.’

We are told again & again by ‘experts’ & ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace & that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, & meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa & are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning & hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill & to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ’silent majority,’ is cowed & extraneous.

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic & uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, & the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans & many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts–the fanatics who threaten our way of life.”

Most of the general public know this, all across the world, but our politicians are in denial & offer only appeasement.

Like the silent Muslims, we remain silent & acquiescent, while our freedoms gradually disappear."