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BAN rcs1000 ............ NOW !!!!!!!!!!0
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Walking wicket Broad.0
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Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".0 -
Cricviz model is terriby flawed, gone from 50/50 to 85/15 with that one wicket. Given there is possibility of Bairstow going at any moment that should be factored in and not result in that level of movement in the percentages.0
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I've got tickets for the Old Trafford test.
Is an interesting pitch to look forward to0 -
Broad gone...fat lady done her warm up...0
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Surely it's 93-96% probability for PakistanFrancisUrquhart said:Cricviz model is terriby flawed, gone from 50/50 to 85/15 with that one wicket. Given there is possibility of Bairstow going at any moment that should be factored in and not result in that level of movement in the percentages.
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What makes my blood run cold right now is that there's a deliberate intention to murder officers across the nation.malcolmg said:
Very true, nothing justifies anyone going out and shooting innocent police officers, anyone who thinks that is acceptable is warped in the extreme, no matter what grievance they nurture.PlatoSaid said:
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.The_Apocalypse said:
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.John_M said:
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.The_Apocalypse said:
I knew you'd blame BLM.PlatoSaid said:
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.TwistedFireStopper said:The US looks to heading towards trouble.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
Thinking your spouse may not come home each night is always a worry for law enforcement families, knowing that a small number of racists are seeking to shoot them is an entirely different kettle of fish.
God knows what's going to happen in Cleveland tomorrow with the Trump convention. IIRC it's a open carry state.0 -
Was talking about before broad. With broad gone it is now 97/3. But the 50/5 0 was the incorrect output of their model.rcs1000 said:
Surely it's 93-96% probability for PakistanFrancisUrquhart said:Cricviz model is terriby flawed, gone from 50/50 to 85/15 with that one wicket. Given there is possibility of Bairstow going at any moment that should be factored in and not result in that level of movement in the percentages.
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Thanks for the earlier thread headerTheScreamingEagles said:I've got tickets for the Old Trafford test.
Is an interesting pitch to look forward to
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99.9% now... (unless it's outside off stump)0
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Fair enough, it would appear that blacks being killed by other blacks isn't worthy of any thought from you, only if they are killed by the police.The_Apocalypse said:
You don't understand. I'll direct you to @John_M's post. He has explained things far more eloquently than me.saddened said:
In what way does that address the fact that the vast majority of black deaths are at the hands of another blacks and if you really believe black lives matter that should be addressed?The_Apocalypse said:
I put the BIB in the post you quoted from me. I also reiterated what I said under 'Here it is again'.saddened said:
There is no bit in bold rendered on my tablet. So help me out what is your opinion on dealing with the horrific rates of black on black murder.The_Apocalypse said:
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.saddened said:
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.The_Apocalypse said:@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
What's your opinion on that?
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.0 -
Inside edge!0
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They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
(a. 'All Lives matter' has become a way of shutting down debate on the relationship between Black people and law enforcement in the US. It has become a way of shutting down debate on the grievances many Black people have about that situation.
(b. Second of all, it's clear that sadly all lives are not seen as mattering in the US.
A PBer brought up Facebook employees writing 'All Lives Matter'. I actually think that Mark Zuckerburg's response to that was fantastic and explains the situation well re saying 'all lives matter'.0 -
You're misunderstanding my position. Perhaps deliberately you are doing so.saddened said:
Fair enough, it would appear that blacks being killed by other blacks isn't worthy of any thought from you, only if they are killed by the police.The_Apocalypse said:
You don't understand. I'll direct you to @John_M's post. He has explained things far more eloquently than me.saddened said:
In what way does that address the fact that the vast majority of black deaths are at the hands of another blacks and if you really believe black lives matter that should be addressed?The_Apocalypse said:
I put the BIB in the post you quoted from me. I also reiterated what I said under 'Here it is again'.saddened said:
There is no bit in bold rendered on my tablet. So help me out what is your opinion on dealing with the horrific rates of black on black murder.The_Apocalypse said:
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.saddened said:
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.The_Apocalypse said:@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
What's your opinion on that?
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.0 -
It was there to improve the scientific knowledge of PBers and be a good betting thread as wellRobD said:
Thanks for the earlier thread headerTheScreamingEagles said:I've got tickets for the Old Trafford test.
Is an interesting pitch to look forward to0 -
It is difficult, as a white, middle aged Englishman to get my head around the parlous state race relations has got itself into in the US. It's equally as hard to put myself in the shoes of young black American males. I don't get racially abused, or feel particularly at threat from gun crime, well any crime at all, really. On the face of it, BLM seems a little radical for me, but it is without doubt that the Police in the US are doing themselves no favours. It just appears that the US is heading towards trouble, with no easy fix on the horizon.0
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Footage that looks damning on YouTube may look very different once a Defence Attorney has taken it apart. A police officer who honestly believes he is in imminent danger of being shot, and shoots first, will have a defence to a murder charge. Juries tend to give the benefit of the doubt to police officers.John_M said:
With respect, while black-on-black murders are a tragedy, they are a separate tragedy.saddened said:
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.The_Apocalypse said:@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
What's your opinion on that?
The issue at hand is simple; are police officers (who are an arm of the State) almost routinely shooting black suspects? Based on some of the footage we've seen, the answer is yes. Simply pointing at an even worse situation is what-aboutery of the first order.
Citizens have collectively outsourced personal defence to the State. It's an implicit contract. If the State can be shown to be violating that contract it is not going to end well.0 -
The talk England batting deep is false. Ali doesn't have a good record against good bowling, broad is a broken man with the bat & Finn + Anderson (or ball) are rabbits.0
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Chris Woakes = Ian Botham
Steve Finn = Graham Dilley
I hope0 -
We'll have the normal tail end spectacle of about 5 balls not getting Finn out because he wasn't good enough to edge them probably.rcs1000 said:0 -
200 up...
Come on Finn.0 -
Wasn't one of the black suspects pinned to the ground before being shot at point blank range?Sean_F said:
Footage that looks damning on YouTube may look very different once a Defence Attorney has taken it apart. A police officer who honestly believes he is in imminent danger of being shot, and shoots first, will have a defence to a murder charge. Juries tend to give the benefit of the doubt to police officers.John_M said:
With respect, while black-on-black murders are a tragedy, they are a separate tragedy.saddened said:
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.The_Apocalypse said:@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
What's your opinion on that?
The issue at hand is simple; are police officers (who are an arm of the State) almost routinely shooting black suspects? Based on some of the footage we've seen, the answer is yes. Simply pointing at an even worse situation is what-aboutery of the first order.
Citizens have collectively outsourced personal defence to the State. It's an implicit contract. If the State can be shown to be violating that contract it is not going to end well.0 -
Finn does have a test fifty.rcs1000 said:200 up...
Come on Finn.0 -
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
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Baton Rouge
Police statement
9m ago
17:45
Baton Rouge police corporal L’Jean McKneely has just given a press conference in which he confirmed “multiple officers were shot, we do have some that were killed. That’s what I know for sure right now.”
He also confirmed that one suspect had been killed. “We’re securing the area with a deceased suspect, a suspect that has been killed. We’re making sure there aren’t any explosives in the area.”
McKneely said that police were using a bomb-defusing robot to secure the scene, and make sure there were no explosives on or around the deceased suspect.0 -
Come on Finn!0
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I always used to derive great levity by swapping the B and the F in BuckminsterfullerineTheScreamingEagles said:
It was there to improve the scientific knowledge of PBers and be a good betting thread as wellRobD said:
Thanks for the earlier thread headerTheScreamingEagles said:I've got tickets for the Old Trafford test.
Is an interesting pitch to look forward to
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And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.0 -
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BeLEAVE in EnglandSunil_Prasannan said:0 -
I read it, and it's nonsense. [Edit: or at least your point (a) can be summarised as "whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter".]The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.0 -
Mistake. You need to take all the runs you can get.0
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Right. Match over.
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Yes, yes. Just running a diagnostic on my Tebbit Chip.rcs1000 said:
BeLEAVE in EnglandSunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Just needs a 79 partnership from Finn and Ball. Easy!0
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It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
That was a stupid tactic not to take the runs.0
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Yasir Shah is going to be a proper handful at Old Trafford. Crucial toss to win.0
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Yes daft.FrancisUrquhart said:That was a stupid tactic not to take the runs.
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No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
The problem stems from segregation. Not the legal segregation 'back of the bus' stuff that came to an end many decades ago, but the semi-voluntary segregation that persists in most large US cities with significant black populations.TwistedFireStopper said:It is difficult, as a white, middle aged Englishman to get my head around the parlous state race relations has got itself into in the US. It's equally as hard to put myself in the shoes of young black American males. I don't get racially abused, or feel particularly at threat from gun crime, well any crime at all, really. On the face of it, BLM seems a little radical for me, but it is without doubt that the Police in the US are doing themselves no favours. It just appears that the US is heading towards trouble, with no easy fix on the horizon.
They effectively have 'black neighbourhoods', black churches, black businesses, black transport systems... wholly segregated areas where non-blacks are afraid to go (and which are generally hostile to police who may be called upon to deal with black-on-black crime).
Because communities don't mix, suspicion arises and henceforth racism.
All the TV coverage will be of the inner city crime hotspots, but the answer lies in the flyover states. In small town America, contrary to widespread perception, there is actually more racial integration and less racism. I've been to small towns in the midwest with only a handful of black residents. Guess what - they're far better integrated *because they had to integrate*.
It's probably a similar story to how Asians in Britain did a better job of integrating during the 50s and 60s than is often the case in Muslim communities today - given sufficient numbers, people tend to group together exclusively with their own kind and this does nobody any favours ultimately. Smaller numbers have no choice but to mix in, and that's better for everybody.
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Completely agree.FrancisUrquhart said:That was a stupid tactic not to take the runs.
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I'm still watching, but not hopefully...ThomasNashe said:Just needs a 79 partnership from Finn and Ball. Easy!
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Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.0
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@Apocalypse.
Thread too long to nest so final comment pasted here
My opinion of BLM, is that they should in reality be named BLM (If shot by the police).
To believe they are actually concerned about killings by the police, it would be all of them, be it a white cop black victim or black cop white victim.
They don't do that, they are a political organization., which is fine, if they admit that's what they are.
But before my desire to get all people treated equally and actually worry about the horrific murder rates of young black men gets me labelled as being of the far right I'll leave it at that.
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I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
Yes both practically and ideologically.tlg86 said:
I think a general election is needed before another referendum is held.TOPPING said:
It is an interesting conundrum. On the face of it EURefII seems non-democratic: we have spoken, innit.Scott_P said:@JolyonMaugham: An Open Letter to the 48% https://t.co/o6qWmJ2fQS
But then again, putting the final deal to the public seems quite democratic-y.
But we can't continue to have referendums until we all agree on the Brexit version we prefer; it would take decades.0 -
Well played Pakistan.0
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Worth a review ?0
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you probably don't want to know we won our davis cup tie then.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
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You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
Bingo.ThreeQuidder said:
You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
That's a fairly orthodox left wing view, isn't it? Certainly in the USThreeQuidder said:
You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
The arguments for a GE are quite strong. May conservatism is quite clearly going to be different to Cameron conservatism, which is what people voted for last year (insofar as you accept that FPTP is legitimate). OK, going on first impressions personally I prefer it, but the people have had no say. The top team running the country is now significantly changed. Within months it is going to become clear what sort of Brexit the government is aiming for, which may or may not be what the majority of the U.K. population might support.tlg86 said:
I think a general election is needed before another referendum is held.TOPPING said:
It is an interesting conundrum. On the face of it EURefII seems non-democratic: we have spoken, innit.Scott_P said:@JolyonMaugham: An Open Letter to the 48% https://t.co/o6qWmJ2fQS
But then again, putting the final deal to the public seems quite democratic-y.
But we can't continue to have referendums until we all agree on the Brexit version we prefer; it would take decades.
And from a Conservative point of view, I think the arguments for an Autumn GE are quite strong, as Andrew Neil's acolytes on bbcsp today clearly were thinking.0 -
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
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Given the Spanish used to burn protestants in the past , do you think it woudl be justified if we had protestant lives matter and they were happy that Catholics were getting shot. The past is te hpast good bad or indifferent. People need to be looking at the present and future and not thinking they should get any special treatment because of the past.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694282/Brought-weapons-s-good-equipment-Terrifying-final-text-messages-Bastille-Day-killer-sent-minutes-murdered-84-people.html
Not looking like a lone crazy...add to the mystery 100k, now texts to other people about weapons etc.0 -
0
-
You'd have to tell me which sport it was and who we are playing before I could even begin to consider whether I cared.paulyork64 said:
you probably don't want to know we won our davis cup tie then.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Surely there are lots of sports discussion sites where such pointless chat is more appropriate? ;-)0 -
I was just musing about the oddity of PB where at the moment there are two threads entirely intertwined, one regarding the cricket at Lords and the other racial tensions and the shooting of police officers in USA.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Meanwhile everyone pretty much ignores the thread header which SoObs has taken considerable time to write no doubt.
It is though one of the good things about PB in many ways and I can prove that I can multitask and follow a number of different conversations on different subjects all at the same time.
This is pretty much what an NEC meeting must be like I guess?
0 -
Next you will be telling us all Blacks are innocent , never commit crimes and its just persecution by nasty whitesThe_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.0 -
Nobody is looking for special treatment.malcolmg said:
Given the Spanish used to burn protestants in the past , do you think it woudl be justified if we had protestant lives matter and they were happy that Catholics were getting shot. The past is te hpast good bad or indifferent. People need to be looking at the present and future and not thinking they should get any special treatment because of the past.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.
Protestants are not being systematically discriminated against today.
The trouble is, is that the past isn't just the past. Racism is still an issue that many Black people in America face today, that is the problem. The past very much still affects the Black community in the US. But as one PBer noted it must be difficult for British Conservatives to understand the perspective of young Black men and women in the US.0 -
Tennis is a quick-fire sport, unlike boring Test Cricket, which is a game invented, played and watched by people with FAR too much time on their hands!IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Test Cricket is almost as boring as Golf!
*dives for cover*0 -
No I'm not saying that.malcolmg said:
Next you will be telling us all Blacks are innocent , never commit crimes and its just persecution by nasty whitesThe_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.0 -
Sir Benjamin, I was just going to mention the voluntary segregation happens here, and elsewhere too. It's not good for social cohesion, amongst other things.0
-
I came to that conclusion by applying logic.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
The problem, insofar as there is still a problem, is that perceived discrimination against blacks far outstrips the reality.0 -
Congratulations, Sunil, I have been on this site for several years waiting for you to say something sensible.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Tennis is a quick-fire sport, unlike boring Test Cricket, which is a game invented, played and watched by people with FAR too much time on their hands!IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Test Cricket is almost as boring as Golf!
*dives for cover*0 -
To be honest I've had a damn good ding dong with @Jobabob over Labour and their shenanigans throughout several threads where it wasn't the headerMoses_ said:
I was just musing about the oddity of PB where at the moment there are two threads entirely intertwined, one regarding the cricket at Lords and the other racial tensions and the shooting of police officers in USA.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Meanwhile everyone pretty much ignores the thread header which SoObs has taken considerable time to write no doubt.
It is though one of the good things about PB in many ways and I can prove that I can multitask and follow a number of different conversations on different subjects all at the same time.
This is pretty much what an NEC meeting must be like I guess? 0 -
What gives the British Lefty a much better insight? Oh wait, how am I forgetting? They are morally superior to Tory scum.The_Apocalypse said:
Nobody is looking for special treatment.malcolmg said:
Given the Spanish used to burn protestants in the past , do you think it woudl be justified if we had protestant lives matter and they were happy that Catholics were getting shot. The past is te hpast good bad or indifferent. People need to be looking at the present and future and not thinking they should get any special treatment because of the past.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil Rights Movement.ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.
Protestants are not being systematically discriminated against today.
The trouble is, is that the past isn't just the past. Racism is still an issue that many Black people in America face today, that is the problem. The past very much still affects the Black community in the US. But as one PBer noted it must be difficult for British Conservatives to understand the perspective of young Black men and women in the US.0 -
Nobody is looking for special treatment.
Protestants are not being systematically discriminated against today.
The trouble is, is that the past isn't just the past. Racism is still an issue that many Black people in America face today, that is the problem. The past very much still affects the Black community in the US. But as one PBer noted it must be difficult for British Conservatives to understand the perspective of young Black men and women in the US.
--------------------------------------------
But as some groups have demanded reparations for slavery, why shouldn't that principle be extended further? How about reparations for the seizure of property by the Normans and the genocide of the harrying of the north?0 -
No, it's you - you said as much re white supremacists earlier. That your first response is labelling another as 'right-wing' then later blanket dismissal as 'this is PB' says a lot about your position.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.0 -
A baffling conclusion.ThreeQuidder said:
I came to that conclusion by applying logic.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
The problem, insofar as there is still a problem, is that perceived discrimination against blacks far outstrips the reality.
Perceived by whom, exactly?0 -
So Black people are imagining that they are being discriminated against? Well if that's the case then I am done here. If after everything, you all believe that the issues in the US are down black people 'segregating themselves' , and imaging racism and discrimination, well there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.ThreeQuidder said:
I came to that conclusion by applying logic.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
The problem, insofar as there is still a problem, is that perceived discrimination against blacks far outstrips the reality.0 -
Breaking up the clutter of political minutiae with sports or other inanities not only helps keep the political debate refreshed by offering moments of break, it helps keep things civil by creating a broader community identity rather than just yelling about politics at one another. It's easier to be less enraged by some stubborn political idiot if you permit them to also bring up their favourite fantasy novels, sports interests, business happenings and what they think about Hannibal Barca.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
0 -
The golf is amazing0
-
His Tebbit chip is on the fritz again...IanB2 said:
Congratulations, Sunil, I have been on this site for several years waiting for you to say something sensible.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Tennis is a quick-fire sport, unlike boring Test Cricket, which is a game invented, played and watched by people with FAR too much time on their hands!IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Test Cricket is almost as boring as Golf!
*dives for cover*0 -
The_Apocalypse said:
I was going to leave this alone but can't let this past uncommented.malcolmg said:
Nobody is looking for special treatment.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm 'bogged down in the past' because it provides an important historical context necessary to this discussion. Because the past is very much relevant today. Racism against minorities didn't die after the Civil RighThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.
Protestants are not being systematically discriminated against today.
The trouble is, is that the past isn't just the past. Racism is still an issue that many Black people in America face today, that is the problem. The past very much still affects the Black community in the US. But as one PBer noted it must be difficult for British Conservatives to understand the perspective of young Black men and women in the US.
Do you believe that white people are subjected to racism in America?
Not all of them some of them.0 -
I know it is an issue and its wrong but shooting policemen is not the answer. It is hard to understand for me , I don't give a chuff about somepones colour , religion etc and find it bizarre how F***ed up the world is on the subject. America is a very special case ad prejusic eis not limited there, it is money based in most cases.The_Apocalypse said:
Nobody is looking for special treatment.malcolmg said:
.The_Apocalypse said:
I'ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.
Protestants are not being systematically discriminated against today.
The trouble is, is that the past isn't just the past. Racism is still an issue that many Black people in America face today, that is the problem. The past very much still affects the Black community in the US. But as one PBer noted it must be difficult for British Conservatives to understand the perspective of young Black men and women in the US.
I don't really understand why people are racist but it is not exclusive to whites.0 -
I don't view all Tories as scum. I have in my life noticed however, that on complex racial issues those who are right-wing are not likely to be sympathetic to the views of minorities.RobD said:
What gives the British Lefty a much better insight? Oh wait, how am I forgetting? They are morally superior to Tory scum.0 -
I've long thought he never had one installed at all, it's a disgrace I tell you.RobD said:
His Tebbit chip is on the fritz again...IanB2 said:
Congratulations, Sunil, I have been on this site for several years waiting for you to say something sensible.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Tennis is a quick-fire sport, unlike boring Test Cricket, which is a game invented, played and watched by people with FAR too much time on their hands!IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Test Cricket is almost as boring as Golf!
*dives for cover*0 -
Perceived by blacks, obviously.TheWhiteRabbit said:
A baffling conclusion.ThreeQuidder said:
I came to that conclusion by applying logic.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
The problem, insofar as there is still a problem, is that perceived discrimination against blacks far outstrips the reality.
Perceived by whom, exactly?0 -
Fair point - if there's betting possibility involved - just a week ago I won enough for a nice bottle of wine with my dinner from backing a horse racing tip someone had kindly put up on here.kle4 said:
Breaking up the clutter of political minutiae with sports or other inanities not only helps keep the political debate refreshed by offering moments of break, it helps keep things civil by creating a broader community identity rather than just yelling about politics at one another. It's easier to be less enraged by some stubborn political idiot if you permit them to also bring up their favourite fantasy novels, sports interests, business happenings and what they think about Hannibal Barca.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
But comments that are neither POLITICAL nor BETTING surely belong somewhere else?0 -
In large part, yes.The_Apocalypse said:
So Black people are imagining that they are being discriminated against?ThreeQuidder said:
I came to that conclusion by applying logic.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
The problem, insofar as there is still a problem, is that perceived discrimination against blacks far outstrips the reality.0 -
Then PB would lose it's pub atmosphere, as (I think) SeanT once put it.IanB2 said:
Fair point - if there's betting possibility involved - just a week ago I won enough for a nice bottle of wine with my dinner from backing a horse racing tip someone had kindly put up on here.kle4 said:
Breaking up the clutter of political minutiae with sports or other inanities not only helps keep the political debate refreshed by offering moments of break, it helps keep things civil by creating a broader community identity rather than just yelling about politics at one another. It's easier to be less enraged by some stubborn political idiot if you permit them to also bring up their favourite fantasy novels, sports interests, business happenings and what they think about Hannibal Barca.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
But comments that are neither POLITICAL nor BETTING surely belong somewhere else?0 -
I don't get your point re white supremacists. I think the trouble is you see white supremacists and BLM as equivalents. I simply didn't agree with your point and explained why.PlatoSaid said:
No, it's you - you said as much re white supremacists earlier. That your first response is labelling another as 'right-wing' then later blanket dismissal as 'this is PB' says a lot about your position.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.0 -
I don't follow a lot of the PB running sports commentary - I usually read threads hours later, rather than "live", so they rarely add much value to me, other than from curiosity of the following sort: "oh look, they thought they actually had a chance as late as 3 pm"!Moses_ said:
I was just musing about the oddity of PB where at the moment there are two threads entirely intertwined, one regarding the cricket at Lords and the other racial tensions and the shooting of police officers in USA.IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Meanwhile everyone pretty much ignores the thread header which SoObs has taken considerable time to write no doubt.
It is though one of the good things about PB in many ways and I can prove that I can multitask and follow a number of different conversations on different subjects all at the same time.
This is pretty much what an NEC meeting must be like I guess?
Nevertheless, lots of people who bet on politics bet on sport too, and the sport markets tend to be more liquid. So it isn't really out of place to see discussions of probabilities and odds on sporting events. Or even other non-political things like Eurovision, an event I have never watched and have zero interest in, but nevertheless somehow "fits" on PB.
The discussions of classical antiquity have rather less betting significance but are welcome regardless :-)0 -
Mr. kle4, are you calling me a stubborn political idiot?
That's as offensive as when Nero threw Hasdrubal's severed head in Hannibal's general direction.
0 -
In betting terms, a test match can often feel quite similiar to politics, except the timescale is 5 days rather than months or years.
I have no idea how people make money betting on golf - so many potential winners...0 -
Cricket is by far the most popular sport in the Subcontinent, whereas Football is the most popular sport in Blighty ;PRobD said:
His Tebbit chip is on the fritz again...IanB2 said:
Congratulations, Sunil, I have been on this site for several years waiting for you to say something sensible.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Tennis is a quick-fire sport, unlike boring Test Cricket, which is a game invented, played and watched by people with FAR too much time on their hands!IanB2 said:Why do some PB'ers think we want all this sports commentary? The title of the site is clear enough. Watching cricket is the only thing I can think of that is worse than watching tennis.
Test Cricket is almost as boring as Golf!
*dives for cover*0 -
I wonder, would a British Conservative living in America have more insight than a British Lefty living in Britain... *innocent face*The_Apocalypse said:
I don't view all Tories as scum. I have in my life noticed however, that on complex racial issues those who are right-wing are not likely to be sympathetic to the views of minorities.RobD said:
What gives the British Lefty a much better insight? Oh wait, how am I forgetting? They are morally superior to Tory scum.0 -
You need to remember that, according to the left, only whites can be racist (and only men can be sexist).malcolmg said:
I know it is an issue and its wrong but shooting policemen is not the answer. It is hard to understand for me , I don't give a chuff about somepones colour , religion etc and find it bizarre how F***ed up the world is on the subject. America is a very special case ad prejusic eis not limited there, it is money based in most cases.The_Apocalypse said:
Nobody is looking for special treatment.malcolmg said:
.The_Apocalypse said:
I'ThreeQuidder said:
No, it really is. You're bogged down in talking about the past, I'm talking about the present.The_Apocalypse said:
It's not nonsense.ThreeQuidder said:
I read it, and it's nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:
And very clearly you haven't read my reply. If you weren't going to, why respond?ThreeQuidder said:
... Because they think that all lives don't matter.The_Apocalypse said:
They react that way because:ThreeQuidder said:
Nonsense.The_Apocalypse said:@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Well, theoretically true, but look how the BLM people react to people who say "all lives matter".
Or that whites shouldn't be allowed to say that all lives matter.
It boils down to the same thing.
There is a word for people of one race who think that they can say that their lives matter but people of another race can't say the same for themselves.
As stated before white lives already matter. Historically in the Western world white people have not been oppressed because they are white. By contrast, there is a massive history, particularly in the US of Black lives being seen not to matter - slavery, segregation, and racism which is still a thing today.
Protestants are not being systematically discriminated against today.
The trouble is, is that the past isn't just the past. Racism is still an issue that many Black people in America face today, that is the problem. The past very much still affects the Black community in the US. But as one PBer noted it must be difficult for British Conservatives to understand the perspective of young Black men and women in the US.
I don't really understand why people are racist but it is not exclusive to whites.0 -
So the people who suffer discrimination aren't a good judge of the discrimination they face?ThreeQuidder said:
Perceived by blacks, obviously.TheWhiteRabbit said:
A baffling conclusion.ThreeQuidder said:
I came to that conclusion by applying logic.The_Apocalypse said:
What?ThreeQuidder said:You're a short step away from actually saying that it's OK to discriminate against whites because in the past there was discrimination against blacks.
I don't know quite how you come to that conclusion, but then this is PB so I shouldn't be surprised. And I'm afraid the issue is that discrimination against Blacks is very much a present and not just a past issue.
The problem, insofar as there is still a problem, is that perceived discrimination against blacks far outstrips the reality.
Perceived by whom, exactly?
What a patronising attitude.0 -
This discussion has been closed.