joncraigSKY @joncraig 10m10 minutes ago Jeremy Corbyn has left the room as Labour NEC debates his future. Refused to leave at first, but has now, I'm told. It's getting personal!
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
The 'Labour Vote' are not collectively Corbyn loyalists. The membership are however, and I'm not sure how having so many people out of touch with the rest of the country as Labour members is exactly benefitting Labour.
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
You seriously think that half of Labour's current vote would walk away if Corbyn were not leader?
It's very Charles I not recognising the court's right to try him.
Hopefully not with the same result.
Not a good analogy for the right wing of Labour.
Of course they'll execute Corbyn and be rid of him for a few years, but then his successors will be in power in a few years time for many centuries to come
the government needs to nail its colours to the mast.
Just like Andrea Leadsom did...
Anyone running a book as to whether Scott can get through 24hrs without posting the word "B****teer" ?
On a knife edge..
oh, is it a swearword now ;-)
Funny....it used to be a badge of honour.......but then they all ran away.....
All gone, all gone, all gone. All those Tory Brexiteers, gone, gone, gone. A merry, plucky, shameless band, who scaled the heights of the greasy pole, surveyed the view, blanched and threw themselves off. First Boris Johnson, wobbling with vertigo, then shoved from the platform by Michael Gove. Then Mr Gove himself, somehow unable to balance on his own. And now, finally, Andrea Leadsom; a woman who had simply never before climbed so high, didn’t have the coat for it and couldn’t stand the weather
2) Even if Jez isn't on the ballot then this is going to court
3) Courts are funny places, full stuffed with lawyers
Agreed. This is a moment of fun. Corbyn will be on the ballot and will be re-elected. I would not be surprised if after all this the NEC ends up backing him. That would be very Labour.
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
and I bet they won't even get their three quid back!
If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.
G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.
*excuse?
recuse - voluntary step out of the meeting because of a conflict
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
The 'Labour Vote' are not collectively Corbyn loyalists. The membership are however, and I'm not sure how having so many people out of touch with the rest of the country as Labour members is exactly benefitting Labour.
I didn't say "the Laboyur vote are collectively Corbyn loyalists". But I do think Corbyn is unquestionably closer to the average Labour voter than the clueless PLP are. The proof of that is the EU Referendum: the Remain campaign (which the PLP would want to base Labour party strategy on) was defeated in two-thirds of current Labour seats.
The economically conservative / socially liberal party that the PLP wants, with an uncharismatic Establishment politician at the helm, would be destroyed outside of a few middle-class parts of London. But it's now clear that the PLP don't care about how much they lose elections, as long as they get to keep their own particular so-called "centre-ground" ideology in tact.
If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
Mr Dancer, I'm sure Major didn't need to be nominated to stand against Redwood in 1995?
Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.
So am I - and I am in the right-wing half of the party who didn't vote for Corbyn last year.
I wouldn't say you were on the right of the party TBH
If you think I'm on the left of the party, then you're in for a shock when you see the reactions of most members if the PLP coup succeeds.
I'm in the minority of the party which didn't make Jez my first preference last year (or even second preference come to that), and in the even smaller minority of the party who wants to renew Trident.
The Liberal Democrats want to ignore the referendum result and Labour want to keep a man who won 60% of the vote in a four-way contest off the ballot. They don't like democracy much, do they?
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
Mr Dancer, I'm sure Major didn't need to be nominated to stand against Redwood in 1995?
He was nominated by, I think, Ian Lang and Brian Mawhinney
All this assumes Corbyn cant find 50 nominations. On paper he has 40.
The PLP, however, have no choice but to oust him if they want to get power and be useful. Here is the thing, the members and unions got him in but is their voting support in a GE the difference between a Labour win or loss?
I'm not sure. Take out leftist cranks, non voters, opportunists who bought the 3 quid ticket and so on and you'll shred a lot of his party base but how many of the public is that, who actually vote in a GE?
I suspect the same ground level Labour activists will still be there and will the unions close the chequebook? Maybe but not totally and will it matter as much as it used to?
The upside in real elections that count in getting votes from the masses is greater than the downside of some peeling off of some currently in the party, some of whom the party may not want anyway.
Only one problem, no sign that those two who have put their head above the parapet are going to fair well enough with the general public.
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
He never should have been on the ballot in the first place. Lets forget this ever happened.
Mr. Borough, I agree, but the rules seem to indicate pretty strongly (to me, at least*) that Corbyn should automatically be on the ballot.
*Disclaimer: I am not on the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party.
I can see no other legitimate interpretation of those rules. For it to be possible to have a challenge, you need to have an incumbent to be challenged. Therefore the challengers have to secure the right to challenge - not the incumbent.
If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.
That's the "better result"?
why does the proportion of lost members and lost votes differ? Is there some further quirk of Labour membership that I'm not aware of?
The Liberal Democrats want to ignore the referendum result and Labour want to keep a man who won 60% of the vote in a four-way contest off the ballot. They don't like democracy much, do they?
Nope. The Establishment is reasserting their authority over the Plebs this week.
What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power.
I was expecting a popcorn free day, instead the BBC top story is Corbyn calls for calm amid death threats and smashed windows and back at the NEC, Corbyn has a hissy fit and sit-in.
If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.
That's the "better result"?
why does the proportion of lost members and lost votes differ? Is there some further quirk of Labour membership that I'm not aware of?
By "lost votes", I'm talking about Labour votes in general elections.
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
The 'Labour Vote' are not collectively Corbyn loyalists. The membership are however, and I'm not sure how having so many people out of touch with the rest of the country as Labour members is exactly benefitting Labour.
I didn't say "the Laboyur vote are collectively Corbyn loyalists". But I do think Corbyn is unquestionably closer to the average Labour voter than the clueless PLP are. The proof of that is the EU Referendum: the Remain campaign (which the PLP would want to base Labour party strategy on) was defeated in two-thirds of current Labour seats.
The economically conservative / socially liberal party that the PLP wants, with an uncharismatic Establishment politician at the helm, would be destroyed outside of a few middle-class parts of London. But it's now clear that the PLP don't care about how much they lose elections, as long as they get to keep their own particular so-called "centre-ground" ideology in tact.
The Labour vote would have to be Corbyn loyalists in order to walk away from the Labour party if Corbyn is not on the ballot. The EU is just one issue - and in any case, a big reason as to why so many Labour voters voted for Brexit is due to the issue of immigration. Who advocates freedom of movement and is incredibly pro-immigration? One Jeremy Corbyn is, the guy you claim is closer to the average voter than the PLP are. The PLP want the Labour party at this stage to be a party committed to attaining power via parliamentary democracy, as @SouthamObserver explained so eloquently in his piece yesterday, that I really recommend you read. All fractions of the PLP have turned on Corbyn - from the right of the party to the centre-left. That kind of debunks your idea that this is all about the preservation of a Blairite centre-ground ideology. This is basically about the survival of the Labour party.
''What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power. ''
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
Rules is rules.
The rules seem to show quite clearly it is only challengers that need nominations!
Could the new Labour members press ahead with deselections without Corbyn in place?
I was expecting a popcorn free day, instead the BBC top story is Corbyn calls for calm amid death threats and smashed windows and back at the NEC, Corbyn has a hissy fit and sit-in.
When will it end…!
Keep chomping. All hell will break lose when the NEC votes and finishes meeting tonight.
Mr Dancer, that's the Tory example closest to the present Labour situation. Though one could also mention Sir Antony Meyer standing against Maggie, as well as Hezza.
As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
Rules is rules.
The rules seem to show quite clearly it is only challengers that need nominations!
Could the new Labour members press ahead with deselections without Corbyn in place?
Nick P said it was possible IIRC, but only when the subject comes up as in re-selection for next GE, which will be a couple of years time with fixed term nonsense. But I could be wrong on that.
By then the mass of Corbynista will have forgotten, got bored, joined the Greens or formed their own party (apart from ones doing time for vandalism and death threats).
The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.
Well the Midlands and "the north" could very easily go to UKIP. Scotland has gone to the SNP already. Presumably by eviscerating Jezza they'll take a major hit in London (maybe to Lib-Dems or Green?)
I was expecting a popcorn free day, instead the BBC top story is Corbyn calls for calm amid death threats and smashed windows and back at the NEC, Corbyn has a hissy fit and sit-in.
When will it end…!
Keep chomping. All hell will break lose when the NEC votes and finishes meeting tonight.
It will end in some lawyers getting richer and more things getting smashed.
The Labour vote would have to be Corbyn loyalists in order to walk away from the Labour party if Corbyn is not on the ballot. The EU is just one issue - and in any case, a big reason as to why so many Labour voters voted for Brexit is due to the issue of immigration. Who advocates freedom of movement and is incredibly pro-immigration? One Jeremy Corbyn is, the guy you claim is closer to the average voter than the PLP are. The PLP want the Labour party at this stage to be a party committed to attaining power via parliamentary democracy, as @SouthamObserver explained so eloquently in his piece yesterday, that I really recommend you read. All fractions of the PLP have turned on Corbyn - from the right of the party to the centre-left. That kind of debunks your idea that this is all about the preservation of a Blairite centre-ground ideology. This is basically about the survival of the Labour party.
Fwiw, opinion polls put Corbyn's approval rating among Labour voters at around 60% -- that's not great for the standards of a normal party leader, since they should be getting near-universal support from their own supporters if they want a hope of winning over voters from other parties - but, when we're talking about a potential split in the party, it does rather suggest that the MORE THAN HALF of current Labour voters who approve of him WOULD walk away if he was ousted, no?
In any case, voters wouldn't have to particularly like Corbyn to support a breakaway party -- they would just have to think he was a lesser evil than continuity Labour led by Angela Eagle. And the referendum does show that the PLP are further away from heartlands opinion than Corbyn is -- I don't think the EU is just "one issue", it encapsulates the whole of the Labour moderates' worldview, and it was utterly rejected by Labour seats.
I have met countless Labour voters who voted Leave "in real life" these past few months, and believe me, as little as they think of Corbyn, it's nothing compared to the RAGE that they have for "career politicians" promising more of the same misery that's currently in the country (which, rightly or wrongly, is what the Remain campaign was perceived as).
The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.
Well the Midlands and "the north" could very easily go to UKIP. Scotland has gone to the SNP already. Presumably by eviscerating Jezza they'll take a major hit in London (maybe to Lib-Dems or Green?)
What does that leave for Labour? Wales?
Sorry mate, we are all stupid racist Brexiteers in Wales.
''What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power. ''
If May lasts that long.
Ok - are you IDS/Bill Cash/Andrea/John Baron, etc, etc. We have a right to know...
.@RuthDavidsonMSP sticks the boot in at Lobby Lunch: "Before politics, I single-handedly saved the banking system. Speaking as a mother..."
.@RuthDavidsonMSP: "I didn't say that, you can't report that, and it would be gutter journalism of the lowest order..."
Fellow Tory Lady, too.
Leadsom is a joke. I'm gutted she pulled out yesterday. She would have been gubbed in the members' vote.
We'll never know.
Yes we do, the YouGov polls show she was going to get gubbed, JohnO and ToryJim both influential in Tory circles also indicated an absolute gubbing for Leadsom
So we'll never know.
The reports from Tory activists, as well as the polls from the pollsters who got sonething right in the past (just saying), would've meant it wasn't worth having the referendum as Remain would win by a double figure margin
Comments
Arise Sir Tom...
It's game over for @jeremycorbyn ally tells me after hearing @UKLabour NEC votes to hold secret ballot
1) There's been no vote yet
2) Even if Jez isn't on the ballot then this is going to court
3) Courts are funny places, full stuffed with lawyers
Jeremy Corbyn has left the room as Labour NEC debates his future. Refused to leave at first, but has now, I'm told. It's getting personal!
Hopefully not with the same result.
That's the "better result"?
Of course they'll execute Corbyn and be rid of him for a few years, but then his successors will be in power in a few years time for many centuries to come
Posthumous execution for Tom Watson?
If Watson has done this he will go down as a legend of the Labour Right if he never lifts another finger again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXbib9MahE
Meanwhile ....
Tittle tattle coming my way .... WOW just WOW .... this will not be a tinkering at the edges May cabinet or Cameron-lite operation.
The economically conservative / socially liberal party that the PLP wants, with an uncharismatic Establishment politician at the helm, would be destroyed outside of a few middle-class parts of London. But it's now clear that the PLP don't care about how much they lose elections, as long as they get to keep their own particular so-called "centre-ground" ideology in tact.
Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.
What have the conservatives done?
*Disclaimer: I am not on the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party.
But anyway, he wont get them.
Not on ballot = finished = pointless legal action = finished.
Police will be busy though dealing with MP protection for next couple of months.
I'm in the minority of the party which didn't make Jez my first preference last year (or even second preference come to that), and in the even smaller minority of the party who wants to renew Trident.
The PLP, however, have no choice but to oust him if they want to get power and be useful. Here is the thing, the members and unions got him in but is their voting support in a GE the difference between a Labour win or loss?
I'm not sure. Take out leftist cranks, non voters, opportunists who bought the 3 quid ticket and so on and you'll shred a lot of his party base but how many of the public is that, who actually vote in a GE?
I suspect the same ground level Labour activists will still be there and will the unions close the chequebook? Maybe but not totally and will it matter as much as it used to?
The upside in real elections that count in getting votes from the masses is greater than the downside of some peeling off of some currently in the party, some of whom the party may not want anyway.
Only one problem, no sign that those two who have put their head above the parapet are going to fair well enough with the general public.
I dont see how a faling pound helps them since they are based in America?
What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power.
When will it end…!
If May lasts that long.
Could the new Labour members press ahead with deselections without Corbyn in place?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_tenure
It is impossible in the real world to do that without leading in Parliament as well - but Jezza doesn't live in the real world.
He wants a revolution - and to achieve that, you have to expect victims and collateral damage.
That's what might prevent a slump in London property prices.
By then the mass of Corbynista will have forgotten, got bored, joined the Greens or formed their own party (apart from ones doing time for vandalism and death threats).
What does that leave for Labour? Wales?
In any case, voters wouldn't have to particularly like Corbyn to support a breakaway party -- they would just have to think he was a lesser evil than continuity Labour led by Angela Eagle. And the referendum does show that the PLP are further away from heartlands opinion than Corbyn is -- I don't think the EU is just "one issue", it encapsulates the whole of the Labour moderates' worldview, and it was utterly rejected by Labour seats.
I have met countless Labour voters who voted Leave "in real life" these past few months, and believe me, as little as they think of Corbyn, it's nothing compared to the RAGE that they have for "career politicians" promising more of the same misery that's currently in the country (which, rightly or wrongly, is what the Remain campaign was perceived as).
They paid in sterling. Sterling has dropped ~20% since Brexit.
Does anyone believe that?
https://www.totalpolitics.com/articles/opinion/abi-wilkinson-labour-has-eagle-it-needs-miracle
Clinton 47 .. Trump 44
https://www.scribd.com/document/318010091/NBC-News-SurveyMonkey-Toplines-and-Methodology-7-4-7-10
Nothing was as farcical as this Labour leadership contest. You simply couldn't write it.