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  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @stephenkb: "Watson has stitched it up", texts senior loyalist.

    Arise Sir Tom...
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    — Nicholas Watt (@nicholaswatt) July 12, 2016 (Newsnight)

    It's game over for @jeremycorbyn ally tells me after hearing @UKLabour NEC votes to hold secret ballot
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Fenster said:

    Imagine how you would feel if you were a Corbyn supporter and they did this to your man?

    I work with two clever brothers who both went to Oxford. They are dyed in the wool Labour.

    Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.

    They can't be that clever if they went to Oxford if they are Corbynites/dyed in the wool Labour supporters
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Fenster said:



    Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.

    So am I - and I am in the right-wing half of the party who didn't vote for Corbyn last year.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Watson keeps his reputation as a fixer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Calm down every body

    1) There's been no vote yet

    2) Even if Jez isn't on the ballot then this is going to court

    3) Courts are funny places, full stuffed with lawyers
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    joncraigSKY ‏@joncraig 10m10 minutes ago
    Jeremy Corbyn has left the room as Labour NEC debates his future. Refused to leave at first, but has now, I'm told. It's getting personal!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
    Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    But what is the tip ?
    He tipped the NEC to destroy Corbyn. (Which opens up plenty of long-odds leader bets from the Right)

    We shall see.
    *cough* think that was me....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    It's very Charles I not recognising the court's right to try him.

    Hopefully not with the same result.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited July 2016
    To continue Ruth Davidson's analogy, the NEC have removed Jeremy's trousers and are just about to f[MODERATED}
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.

    That's the "better result"?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
    Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
    The 'Labour Vote' are not collectively Corbyn loyalists. The membership are however, and I'm not sure how having so many people out of touch with the rest of the country as Labour members is exactly benefitting Labour.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,582
    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
    Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.

    You seriously think that half of Labour's current vote would walk away if Corbyn were not leader?

  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    It is better than him winning the leadership election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188

    It's very Charles I not recognising the court's right to try him.

    Hopefully not with the same result.
    Not a good analogy for the right wing of Labour.

    Of course they'll execute Corbyn and be rid of him for a few years, but then his successors will be in power in a few years time for many centuries to come

    Posthumous execution for Tom Watson?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Short answer - yes!
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    OllyT said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    Dadge said:

    the government needs to nail its colours to the mast.

    Just like Andrea Leadsom did...
    Anyone running a book as to whether Scott can get through 24hrs without posting the word "B****teer" ?

    On a knife edge..
    oh, is it a swearword now ;-)
    Funny....it used to be a badge of honour.......but then they all ran away.....

    All gone, all gone, all gone. All those Tory Brexiteers, gone, gone, gone. A merry, plucky, shameless band, who scaled the heights of the greasy pole, surveyed the view, blanched and threw themselves off. First Boris Johnson, wobbling with vertigo, then shoved from the platform by Michael Gove. Then Mr Gove himself, somehow unable to balance on his own. And now, finally, Andrea Leadsom; a woman who had simply never before climbed so high, didn’t have the coat for it and couldn’t stand the weather

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/andrea-leadsoms-demise-signals-the-end-of-the-nasty-party-h3k3nbwsz?shareToken=f07be91cd860fc1b5e8cd829bf19c2ac
    Pity people didn't suss what a bunch of chancers and charlatans the Leave campaigners were before June 23rd!
    I make that 3 votes out of 17 million.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,582

    Calm down every body

    1) There's been no vote yet

    2) Even if Jez isn't on the ballot then this is going to court

    3) Courts are funny places, full stuffed with lawyers

    Agreed. This is a moment of fun. Corbyn will be on the ballot and will be re-elected. I would not be surprised if after all this the NEC ends up backing him. That would be very Labour.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    IanB2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    But what is the tip ?
    He tipped the NEC to destroy Corbyn. (Which opens up plenty of long-odds leader bets from the Right)

    We shall see.
    *cough* think that was me....
    In fairness you may have done so too Ian!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
    Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
    and I bet they won't even get their three quid back!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I wonder whether it's going to be an Eagle coronation or a contest with Smith.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Danny565 said:

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.

    That's the "better result"?
    @Danny565 http://www.libdems.org.uk/ :)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,582
    Danny565 said:

    For all their talk of wanting "unity", the PLP are now clearly wanting Labour to split, and don't care about the damage it will do.

    This is an elongated, very political trademark dispute. Labour is splitting. But who gets the brand is what counts.

  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    TGOHF said:

    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

    Not happening. Only chance he has is through legal means.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.

    *excuse?

    recuse - voluntary step out of the meeting because of a conflict
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Scott_P said:

    @stephenkb: "Watson has stitched it up", texts senior loyalist.

    Arise Sir Tom...


    If Watson has done this he will go down as a legend of the Labour Right if he never lifts another finger again
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,161

    As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.

    Rules is rules.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    The Joker has just come up with a novel method of choosing our next Labour Party leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXbib9MahE
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Fenster said:

    Imagine how you would feel if you were a Corbyn supporter and they did this to your man?

    I work with two clever brothers who both went to Oxford. They are dyed in the wool Labour.

    Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.

    They can't be that clever if they went to Oxford if they are Corbynites/dyed in the wool Labour supporters
    Ha! I know. English literature types. Dad is a schoolteacher. They aren't Corbynites but they are lefty.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Danny565 said:

    Fenster said:



    Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.

    So am I - and I am in the right-wing half of the party who didn't vote for Corbyn last year.
    I wouldn't say you were on the right of the party TBH
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), is there a time limit for Corbyn to gather such allies, which would appear to be few and far between?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,157
    TGOHF said:

    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

    Well they aren't making the mistake they made last time!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    Poor Jezza - I'm already feeling nostalgic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Stephen Kinnock @ 75s on Betfair.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.

    That's the "better result"?
    @Danny565 http://www.libdems.org.uk/ :)
    You really want the hard left to infiltrate the Lib Dems. That's like Tories asking for UKIP members to rejoin!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    There is no TOTY vacancy .... you'll need 51 nominations to mount a challenge, whereas the incumbent, namely moi, will not be move from my throne.

    Meanwhile ....

    Tittle tattle coming my way .... WOW just WOW .... this will not be a tinkering at the edges May cabinet or Cameron-lite operation.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    It's very Charles I not recognising the court's right to try him.

    Hopefully not with the same result.
    One doesn't want to see scaffolding on Whitehall
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
    Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
    The 'Labour Vote' are not collectively Corbyn loyalists. The membership are however, and I'm not sure how having so many people out of touch with the rest of the country as Labour members is exactly benefitting Labour.
    I didn't say "the Laboyur vote are collectively Corbyn loyalists". But I do think Corbyn is unquestionably closer to the average Labour voter than the clueless PLP are. The proof of that is the EU Referendum: the Remain campaign (which the PLP would want to base Labour party strategy on) was defeated in two-thirds of current Labour seats.

    The economically conservative / socially liberal party that the PLP wants, with an uncharismatic Establishment politician at the helm, would be destroyed outside of a few middle-class parts of London. But it's now clear that the PLP don't care about how much they lose elections, as long as they get to keep their own particular so-called "centre-ground" ideology in tact.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited July 2016
    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512

    Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.

    What have the conservatives done?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    What happens if say 50 Tory MPs defect to Labour, nominate Corbyn, then defect back?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.

    That's the "better result"?
    @Danny565 http://www.libdems.org.uk/ :)
    You really want the hard left to infiltrate the Lib Dems. That's like Tories asking for UKIP members to rejoin!
    Do you seriously consider @Danny565 on the hard left o_O ?!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Mr. Borough, I agree, but the rules seem to indicate pretty strongly (to me, at least*) that Corbyn should automatically be on the ballot.

    *Disclaimer: I am not on the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531

    As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.

    Mr Dancer, I'm sure Major didn't need to be nominated to stand against Redwood in 1995?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,161
    TGOHF said:

    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

    38 if he resigns IIRC. Although for life of me I can't understand why it is less.

    But anyway, he wont get them.

    Not on ballot = finished = pointless legal action = finished.

    Police will be busy though dealing with MP protection for next couple of months.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Jobabob said:

    Danny565 said:

    Fenster said:



    Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.

    So am I - and I am in the right-wing half of the party who didn't vote for Corbyn last year.
    I wouldn't say you were on the right of the party TBH
    If you think I'm on the left of the party, then you're in for a shock when you see the reactions of most members if the PLP coup succeeds.

    I'm in the minority of the party which didn't make Jez my first preference last year (or even second preference come to that), and in the even smaller minority of the party who wants to renew Trident.
  • The Liberal Democrats want to ignore the referendum result and Labour want to keep a man who won 60% of the vote in a four-way contest off the ballot. They don't like democracy much, do they?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188

    As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.

    Mr Dancer, I'm sure Major didn't need to be nominated to stand against Redwood in 1995?
    He was nominated by, I think, Ian Lang and Brian Mawhinney
  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198

    What happens if say 50 Tory MPs defect to Labour, nominate Corbyn, then defect back?

    Trouser-dropping farce.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited July 2016
    All this assumes Corbyn cant find 50 nominations. On paper he has 40.

    The PLP, however, have no choice but to oust him if they want to get power and be useful. Here is the thing, the members and unions got him in but is their voting support in a GE the difference between a Labour win or loss?

    I'm not sure. Take out leftist cranks, non voters, opportunists who bought the 3 quid ticket and so on and you'll shred a lot of his party base but how many of the public is that, who actually vote in a GE?

    I suspect the same ground level Labour activists will still be there and will the unions close the chequebook? Maybe but not totally and will it matter as much as it used to?

    The upside in real elections that count in getting votes from the masses is greater than the downside of some peeling off of some currently in the party, some of whom the party may not want anyway.

    Only one problem, no sign that those two who have put their head above the parapet are going to fair well enough with the general public.



  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Dr. Prasannan, that appears to agree with me :)
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,157
    taffys said:

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512

    Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.

    What have the conservatives done?

    It's Oborne...
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,892
    edited July 2016

    As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.

    He never should have been on the ballot in the first place. Lets forget this ever happened.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,161
    BBC Nick Watt now saying Corbyn ally says it is "game over"
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Mr. Borough, I agree, but the rules seem to indicate pretty strongly (to me, at least*) that Corbyn should automatically be on the ballot.

    *Disclaimer: I am not on the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party.

    I can see no other legitimate interpretation of those rules. For it to be possible to have a challenge, you need to have an incumbent to be challenged. Therefore the challengers have to secure the right to challenge - not the incumbent.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Danny565 said:

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.

    That's the "better result"?
    why does the proportion of lost members and lost votes differ? Is there some further quirk of Labour membership that I'm not aware of?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771596

    I dont see how a faling pound helps them since they are based in America?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    Danny565 said:

    For all their talk of wanting "unity", the PLP are now clearly wanting Labour to split, and don't care about the damage it will do.

    Why single out the PLP? All parties are at fault. Corbyn is leader, he is accountable for party unity.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,121
    edited July 2016

    The Liberal Democrats want to ignore the referendum result and Labour want to keep a man who won 60% of the vote in a four-way contest off the ballot. They don't like democracy much, do they?

    Nope. The Establishment is reasserting their authority over the Plebs this week.

    What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    BBC Nick Watt now saying Corbyn ally says it is "game over"

    Nick Watt looks like a sixth-former although he's probably about 40.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    BBC Nick Watt now saying Corbyn ally says it is "game over"

    What does he mean by that
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    BigIan said:

    What happens if say 50 Tory MPs defect to Labour, nominate Corbyn, then defect back?

    Trouser-dropping farce.
    Given the last two weeks, I wouldn't rule it out :)
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    I was expecting a popcorn free day, instead the BBC top story is Corbyn calls for calm amid death threats and smashed windows and back at the NEC, Corbyn has a hissy fit and sit-in.

    When will it end…!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    ToryJim said:

    taffys said:

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512

    Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.

    What have the conservatives done?

    It's Oborne...
    Oborne is all about Oborne
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    If Corbyn is off the ballot, whilst there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, isn't that the better result, by far, for Labour?

    Most of Labour membership gone, and half of their votes. The rump Labour left with Angela Eagle, someone who has less charisma and leadership skills than Corbyn.

    That's the "better result"?
    why does the proportion of lost members and lost votes differ? Is there some further quirk of Labour membership that I'm not aware of?
    By "lost votes", I'm talking about Labour votes in general elections.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,161

    Poor Jezza - I'm already feeling nostalgic.

    :lol:
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
    Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.
    The 'Labour Vote' are not collectively Corbyn loyalists. The membership are however, and I'm not sure how having so many people out of touch with the rest of the country as Labour members is exactly benefitting Labour.
    I didn't say "the Laboyur vote are collectively Corbyn loyalists". But I do think Corbyn is unquestionably closer to the average Labour voter than the clueless PLP are. The proof of that is the EU Referendum: the Remain campaign (which the PLP would want to base Labour party strategy on) was defeated in two-thirds of current Labour seats.

    The economically conservative / socially liberal party that the PLP wants, with an uncharismatic Establishment politician at the helm, would be destroyed outside of a few middle-class parts of London. But it's now clear that the PLP don't care about how much they lose elections, as long as they get to keep their own particular so-called "centre-ground" ideology in tact.
    The Labour vote would have to be Corbyn loyalists in order to walk away from the Labour party if Corbyn is not on the ballot. The EU is just one issue - and in any case, a big reason as to why so many Labour voters voted for Brexit is due to the issue of immigration. Who advocates freedom of movement and is incredibly pro-immigration? One Jeremy Corbyn is, the guy you claim is closer to the average voter than the PLP are. The PLP want the Labour party at this stage to be a party committed to attaining power via parliamentary democracy, as @SouthamObserver explained so eloquently in his piece yesterday, that I really recommend you read. All fractions of the PLP have turned on Corbyn - from the right of the party to the centre-left. That kind of debunks your idea that this is all about the preservation of a Blairite centre-ground ideology. This is basically about the survival of the Labour party.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    AndyJS said:

    BBC Nick Watt now saying Corbyn ally says it is "game over"

    Nick Watt looks like a sixth-former although he's probably about 40.
    he sounds like it too.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    For all their talk of wanting "unity", the PLP are now clearly wanting Labour to split, and don't care about the damage it will do.

    Why single out the PLP? All parties are at fault. Corbyn is leader, he is accountable for party unity.
    As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    TGOHF said:

    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

    38 if he resigns IIRC. Although for life of me I can't understand why it is less.

    But anyway, he wont get them.

    Not on ballot = finished = pointless legal action = finished.

    Police will be busy though dealing with MP protection for next couple of months.
    It's less because it is for challengers only. There is no justification for excluding an incumbent.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power. ''

    If May lasts that long.
  • As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.

    Rules is rules.
    The rules seem to show quite clearly it is only challengers that need nominations!

    Could the new Labour members press ahead with deselections without Corbyn in place?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    For all their talk of wanting "unity", the PLP are now clearly wanting Labour to split, and don't care about the damage it will do.

    Why single out the PLP? All parties are at fault. Corbyn is leader, he is accountable for party unity.
    As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP
    I know. That's where he has gone wrong. His job was to represent and lead the whole party, not just his friends and supporters.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,161

    I was expecting a popcorn free day, instead the BBC top story is Corbyn calls for calm amid death threats and smashed windows and back at the NEC, Corbyn has a hissy fit and sit-in.

    When will it end…!

    Keep chomping. All hell will break lose when the NEC votes and finishes meeting tonight.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531

    Dr. Prasannan, that appears to agree with me :)

    Mr Dancer, that's the Tory example closest to the present Labour situation. Though one could also mention Sir Antony Meyer standing against Maggie, as well as Hezza.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Cameron is going to fall 91 days short of John Major's length of time in Downing Street.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_tenure
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    For all their talk of wanting "unity", the PLP are now clearly wanting Labour to split, and don't care about the damage it will do.

    Why single out the PLP? All parties are at fault. Corbyn is leader, he is accountable for party unity.
    As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP
    I know. That's where he has gone wrong. His job was to represent and lead the whole party, not just his friends and supporters.
    He is clearly of the belief that he is leading - by representing the will of the majority.

    It is impossible in the real world to do that without leading in Parliament as well - but Jezza doesn't live in the real world.

    He wants a revolution - and to achieve that, you have to expect victims and collateral damage.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tobyperkinsmp: On the day an MP has a brick put through their window for doing their job, people asking why volunteers on NEC want a secret ballot?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    nunu said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771596

    I dont see how a faling pound helps them since they are based in America?

    They paid in sterling. Sterling has dropped ~20% since Brexit.

    That's what might prevent a slump in London property prices.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,161

    As an aside, it is remarkable the incumbent leader could be kept out of the battle to lead a party after he won a landslide victory less than a year ago.

    Rules is rules.
    The rules seem to show quite clearly it is only challengers that need nominations!

    Could the new Labour members press ahead with deselections without Corbyn in place?
    Nick P said it was possible IIRC, but only when the subject comes up as in re-selection for next GE, which will be a couple of years time with fixed term nonsense. But I could be wrong on that.

    By then the mass of Corbynista will have forgotten, got bored, joined the Greens or formed their own party (apart from ones doing time for vandalism and death threats).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,121
    edited July 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.

    Well the Midlands and "the north" could very easily go to UKIP. Scotland has gone to the SNP already. Presumably by eviscerating Jezza they'll take a major hit in London (maybe to Lib-Dems or Green?)

    What does that leave for Labour? Wales?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    I was expecting a popcorn free day, instead the BBC top story is Corbyn calls for calm amid death threats and smashed windows and back at the NEC, Corbyn has a hissy fit and sit-in.

    When will it end…!

    Keep chomping. All hell will break lose when the NEC votes and finishes meeting tonight.
    It will end in some lawyers getting richer and more things getting smashed.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Pulpstar said:

    The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.

    Eh?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited July 2016


    The Labour vote would have to be Corbyn loyalists in order to walk away from the Labour party if Corbyn is not on the ballot. The EU is just one issue - and in any case, a big reason as to why so many Labour voters voted for Brexit is due to the issue of immigration. Who advocates freedom of movement and is incredibly pro-immigration? One Jeremy Corbyn is, the guy you claim is closer to the average voter than the PLP are. The PLP want the Labour party at this stage to be a party committed to attaining power via parliamentary democracy, as @SouthamObserver explained so eloquently in his piece yesterday, that I really recommend you read. All fractions of the PLP have turned on Corbyn - from the right of the party to the centre-left. That kind of debunks your idea that this is all about the preservation of a Blairite centre-ground ideology. This is basically about the survival of the Labour party.

    Fwiw, opinion polls put Corbyn's approval rating among Labour voters at around 60% -- that's not great for the standards of a normal party leader, since they should be getting near-universal support from their own supporters if they want a hope of winning over voters from other parties - but, when we're talking about a potential split in the party, it does rather suggest that the MORE THAN HALF of current Labour voters who approve of him WOULD walk away if he was ousted, no?

    In any case, voters wouldn't have to particularly like Corbyn to support a breakaway party -- they would just have to think he was a lesser evil than continuity Labour led by Angela Eagle. And the referendum does show that the PLP are further away from heartlands opinion than Corbyn is -- I don't think the EU is just "one issue", it encapsulates the whole of the Labour moderates' worldview, and it was utterly rejected by Labour seats.

    I have met countless Labour voters who voted Leave "in real life" these past few months, and believe me, as little as they think of Corbyn, it's nothing compared to the RAGE that they have for "career politicians" promising more of the same misery that's currently in the country (which, rightly or wrongly, is what the Remain campaign was perceived as).
  • TimTim Posts: 44


    They paid in sterling. Sterling has dropped ~20% since Brexit.




    Does anyone believe that?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,121
    AndyJS said:

    Cameron is going to fall 91 days short of John Major's length of time in Downing Street.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_tenure

    Wonder where The Blessed Theresa will finish up on that list? ;)
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.

    Well the Midlands and "the north" could very easily go to UKIP. Scotland has gone to the SNP already. Presumably by eviscerating Jezza they'll take a major hit in London (maybe to Lib-Dems or Green?)

    What does that leave for Labour? Wales?
    Sorry mate, we are all stupid racist Brexiteers in Wales.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    murali_s said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Labour party is a complete cancer that really needs to be cut out from our democracy.

    Eh?
    He's not happy that the PLP want Jezza out.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    TGOHF said:

    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

    imagine if he got on the ballot by majority of one and it was because of how the MEP's voted. Lol.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - SurveyMonkey/NBC - Sample 7,869

    Clinton 47 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/318010091/NBC-News-SurveyMonkey-Toplines-and-Methodology-7-4-7-10
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2016
    nunu said:

    TGOHF said:

    Corbyn isn't off the ballot - he just has to find 50 MPs/MEPs.

    imagine if he got on the ballot by majority of one and it was because of how the MEP's voted. Lol.
    Ma Beckett to the rescue (again) :lol:
  • GravitationGravitation Posts: 287
    Been working my through the Yes Minister and Yes PM boxset recently.

    Nothing was as farcical as this Labour leadership contest. You simply couldn't write it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,145
    taffys said:

    ''What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power. ''

    If May lasts that long.

    Ok - are you IDS/Bill Cash/Andrea/John Baron, etc, etc. We have a right to know...
  • MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    Heh

    .@RuthDavidsonMSP sticks the boot in at Lobby Lunch: "Before politics, I single-handedly saved the banking system. Speaking as a mother..."

    .@RuthDavidsonMSP: "I didn't say that, you can't report that, and it would be gutter journalism of the lowest order..."

    Fellow Tory Lady, too.
    Leadsom is a joke. I'm gutted she pulled out yesterday. She would have been gubbed in the members' vote.
    We'll never know.
    Yes we do, the YouGov polls show she was going to get gubbed, JohnO and ToryJim both influential in Tory circles also indicated an absolute gubbing for Leadsom
    So we'll never know.
    The reports from Tory activists, as well as the polls from the pollsters who got sonething right in the past (just saying), would've meant it wasn't worth having the referendum as Remain would win by a double figure margin
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
This discussion has been closed.