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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Expecting social media to be flooded with Private Hudson from Aliens 'Game over man, Game over!' memes when it's announced that Corbyn will be allowed on the ballot.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Was that itself a secret vote or a show of hands ?

    Who voted for the secret ballot ?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: That's it. Corbyn's finished. He'll have to take the party to court. And he'll lose. https://t.co/MfCWb5OiZG
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    Alasdair said:

    Another great piece from Cyclefree.


    Yes to AV!!

    Actually I agree with you but cant see how it ever comes about
    The 1.5m who voted in the referendum because they realised their vote counted for once are an unanswerable argument for voting reform. If politics is to be for all the people all the people need to have a meaningful say.

    Precisely this. Anyone talking about listening to ordinary people in left-behind towns who then continues to advocate FPTP is a hypocrite. It's really as simple as that. And, yes, I include all Labour supporters, MPs and ex-ministers in that.

    And yet the same feelings exist in almost every country in the developed world regardless of the electoral system. It has to be deeper than that.
    Give places.

    Do I electorate? Nope.
    I PR.

    What known.

    You get to govern with 37% of the vote in the UK. That is not a system that is working for the many.

    Would it be so different with PR - a coalition of 5% here 20% there, etc. Spain is heading to for their children. Others we knew opted for the dole, fags and beer. Sometimes it's just the choices people make.

    It can be different with PR. Even in Spain two new parties have emerged, gained significant support and won seats in Parliament within five years of being formed.

    And that is why there has been no government 2 GE's on with a third on the way. I'm unclear as to quite which group of the dispossessed are gaining from this. Also worth noting that both of those parties lost seats and votes last time.

    The voters are getting the parties they voted for sitting in the Cortes. Those parties now have to find a way to work together. I really can't see what the problem is with that.

    Spain had a majority PP government before the last round of elections. Clearly, the Spanish people did not want another one.

    Overall, the Spanish electoral system has helped to deliver extraordinary and beneficial change to Spain over the last 40 years.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,027
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Laura Kuenssberg sets out the expected Cabinet changes:

    "There is a consensus that Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, will become the chancellor, doing what might be one of the most powerful job swaps in the land with George Osborne.

    After too long in the Treasury bunker, most people expect him to be moved out. Chris Grayling is likely to head up the negotiations over us leaving the EU, in charge at whatever ministry is created to mastermind that process.

    As a prominent Eurosceptic who didn't get down in the gutter in the campaign, he is likely to rise, having run Theresa May's short campaign too.

    James Brokenshire, Theresa May's long-serving Home Office minister, is likely to be put in charge at that department - not a bad reward for years of having to defend the government's struggling immigration policy at the despatch box.

    Stephen Crabb is likely to be left where he is, John Whittingdale might be moved out of the culture brief, potentially to be replaced with Damian Green, a Europhile who was also part of May's campaign team.

    Priti Patel and Justine Greening are likely to be moved up, Nicky Morgan to be moved out, Amber Rudd and Sajid Javid both thought to be likely to stay where they are."

    To what extent, and in what respects, she is wrong will be a useful measurement of sentiment.

    As Theresa supposedly doesn't spend her time "gossiping" with journalists or scheming with acolytes, how on earth would anybody other than her, know what the Cabinet will be like?

    What I would say though is that having Remainers as PM, CoE and Foreign Secretary should be a non-starter. A prominent LEAVER should fill at least one of these roles.

    And Mr (Punishment Budget) Osborne shouldn't anywhere near the government.
    If she keeps Osborne in any capacity, she's a bottler.
    I guess she could move him to the Downing Street domestic services departments toilet division? ;)
    Lord Chancellor of the Privy?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,584
    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Yes, agree. I've been saying for a week now that the rebels' behaviour only makes sense if they are confident of the NEC ruling Corbyn off the ballot paper. I don't know what photos/inducement/promise it may have taken to get the necessary support from the NEC lined up, but will now be very surprised if the ball isn't back in the Corbynite camp for their next move, by this evening.

    Presumably when we find out who voted for the secret ballot, it will be reasonably easy to narrow down who the appropriate guilty party might be?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,584

    Lowlander said:

    Blimey, hadn't seen Ruth's postscript to that Johnson gag:
    https://twitter.com/stvharry/status/752870455866949632

    Ruth has always been pretty colourful with her language, I guess this is just the first time it's getting reported down south.

    She is the Roy Chubby Brown of Scottish politics.
    Sounds like a woman starting to believe her own hype.
    Couldn't agree more, hence my comments above. We don't need a Scottish Angela Eagle.

    "Angela Eagle" is an Old English phrase meaning "extremely lightweight" :lol:
    Which translates to Argclu in Esperanto?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,245
    Ridiculous GDP growth revision of the day:

    "Ireland reported a surprise fall in GDP in the first quarter, but with enormous revisions showing that the economy grew by 26.3 per cent last year, against a previous reading of 7.8 per cent." from the FT

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,027
    rcs1000 said:

    Ridiculous GDP growth revision of the day:

    "Ireland reported a surprise fall in GDP in the first quarter, but with enormous revisions showing that the economy grew by 26.3 per cent last year, against a previous reading of 7.8 per cent." from the FT

    :o
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    RobD said:

    MikeK said:

    The consensus is that the cabinet and government that May will form will essentially be a continuation - wth a few minor changes - of the Cameron government. If that is the so, she will be doomed to fail at the very start.

    The thing above all others that must be tackled is BREXIT: Cameron knew that he couldn't manage this feat, and neither will an unreformed Cameronian cabinet be able to..

    If Kuenssberg's predictions are accurate, it isn't a few minor changes...
    Any government that has Hammond in a position of power is a government of the status quo.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    Does anyone know who the 17 and who the 15 were in the vote - or was that secret ?
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    madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    taffys said:

    The UK welfare system will not survive not will the NHS..

    Trouble is Mr Fish, we've heard the same arguments about technology destroying jobs since at least the 1970s.

    And yet there are more working in the UK now than ever.

    Are these robots self mending, self maintaining, self selling, self delivering?

    And we have a huge BOP deficit only funded by asset sales. And a huge Budget deficit only funded due to pensions being forced to buy debt.

    The road to ruin...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Sounds good for Labour.

    Mr. 1000, that's quite the margin of error.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,159
    IanB2 said:

    I don't know what photos/inducement/promise it may have taken to get the necessary support from the NEC lined up

    There will be the threat of a huge election defeat for one thing...
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: That's it. Corbyn's finished. He'll have to take the party to court. And he'll lose. https://t.co/MfCWb5OiZG

    Spurs have gone 2-0 up against Chelsea. There are 45 minutes to go. If we win we are top of the league. Everyone knows what happens next.

    There is no chance on earth that the NEC will vote for Corbyn to have to collect nominations. But of by some miracle they do, I'd like to point out that I said this might happen in one of the threads on here last weekend.

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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Yes, agree. I've been saying for a week now that the rebels' behaviour only makes sense if they are confident of the NEC ruling Corbyn off the ballot paper. I don't know what photos/inducement/promise it may have taken to get the necessary support from the NEC lined up, but will now be very surprised if the ball isn't back in the Corbynite camp for their next move, by this evening.

    Presumably when we find out who voted for the secret ballot, it will be reasonably easy to narrow down who the appropriate guilty party might be?
    Yes. I guess Watson knew the NEC had been stitched up before he called off talks with the unions at the weekend.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,027
    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Popcorn on standby.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,245

    Sounds good for Labour.

    Mr. 1000, that's quite the margin of error.

    I will bet there will be another massive revision (probably not upwards) to come.

    It's also a reminder that the number that gets all the headlines (the first one) might actually bear no relation to the final number.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,893
    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Was that itself a secret vote or a show of hands ?

    Who voted for the secret ballot ?
    Life is good; I'm still blocked by @LabourEoin .

    :-D
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Michael CrickVerified account
    @MichaelLCrick
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Can they pick up the chair with him in it ?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,950
    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Stick to your guns Jezza! Don't be intimidated!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,596
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: That's it. Corbyn's finished. He'll have to take the party to court. And he'll lose. https://t.co/MfCWb5OiZG

    Secret! Ah ha. Looks like my prediction is coming true. NEC are going to dump Corbyn. We'll see, but it looks over.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I don't know if she will or not, but she won't be intimidated either way. ''

    If she leaves the three brexiteers who harnessed 17 million votes against the might of the government machine on the back benches, May is asking for trouble.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    I love the fact that this has been reported.

    I also agree that Corbyn's in trouble, although with only one vote in it, it's far from game over.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,231
    It does rather sound as if the NEC are making this all up as they go along.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036

    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    I love the fact that this has been reported.

    I also agree that Corbyn's in trouble, although with only one vote in it, it's far from game over.
    I'd love to know if that vote was secret or not though.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,718
    Has anyone thought this NEC meeting would be over quicker if the NEC members stopped texting journalists with a running commentary on the meeting?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Can't the NEC scrape the glue from Corbyns bum? ;)
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,159
    TGOHF said:

    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Can they pick up the chair with him in it ?
    When the Tories do this kind of thing the chairman has a conveniently-placed button to activate the under-chair trapdoor.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Wonder if Momentum will try to break in to the meeting and they do a sit in with Corbyn lol
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    If she keeps Osborne in any capacity, she's a bottler.

    Or, to be more precise, if she keeps Osborne, that shows she has courage, given the hostility to him amongst some.

    I don't know if she will or not, but she won't be intimidated either way.
    Intimidation requires outside influence. I was rather more referring to her own thought processes regarding the post decision consequences of sacking Osborne. She'll have lots of difficult decisions to make but sacking Osborne would be one of the more difficult ones perhaps because they don't get along.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    rcs1000 said:

    Ridiculous GDP growth revision of the day:

    "Ireland reported a surprise fall in GDP in the first quarter, but with enormous revisions showing that the economy grew by 26.3 per cent last year, against a previous reading of 7.8 per cent." from the FT

    Did they generate those by throwing at a dart board?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Jeremy's deep love for the Labour party once again shining through.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Paul Waugh
    Utterly gripping drama going on right now. Jez staging sit-in at his own party? Who's going to frogmarch him out? https://t.co/IMlsv37Nfy

    :smiley:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,718
    Feel the Bern, Bernie Sanders sharing a platform with Hillary and about to endorse her
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852
    edited July 2016
    John_M said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article, The greatest tragedy of Brexit is the death of David Cameron's modernisation agenda, by Rupert Myers in the Telegraph on exactly Cycle Free's theme. This was the "Life Chances" project to:

    “use the opportunity of a strengthening economy to deliver security for working people.” Cameron clearly saw the need to tackle entrenched poverty through social action, and was planning to spend his final years in office helping the least well off through intervention and through trying to make opportunities more equal.

    Rupert Myers thinks this has been knocked for six by Brexit:

    Cameron himself won’t get the chance to implement this. Nobody will even remember that he attempted it, overshadowed as his legacy will be so completely by the referendum ... Brexit means years of government manpower diverted. The best and the brightest won’t be focusing on helping the poorest in our society, but to clambering around for trade deals. In the long run, Britain may be better off from Brexit, but there is a real risk that it will come at the expense of opportunities for the very poorest in society.

    I think that overblown. Early indications are of a relatively modest department for Brexit.

    The idea that our best and brightest _have_ been focusing on helping the poorest in our society, only to be diverted from their noble task by the pesky EUref is risible.

    Unfortunately, I think you are both right. When it was Remain no-one saw the need for it and now it's Leave they don't have the resources or capability for it.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    felix said:

    Lennon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Crick says Lab NEC heading for an evening finish

    Does he say which evening?
    It's all getting a bit Mornington crescent with Charlie Falconer waiting for a train to stop.
    Somebody really needs to edit the Wiki entry for Mornington Crescent. I mean, they preposterously say:

    "Despite appearances, however, there are no rules to the game, and both the naming of stations and the specification of "rules" are based on stream-of-consciousness association and improvisation. Thus the game is intentionally incomprehensible."

    I mean, who wrote that - John Snow?

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    Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176
    Oh to be a fly on the wall. Such fun...

    Wonder what the likes of Margaret Beckett must be thinking about all of this, having helped Corbyn onto the ballot in the first place for whatever reason long-forgotten that was...
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,950
    edited July 2016
    With May as PM and probably a continuity Cameron government, while the PLP gets rid of Jezza against the memberships wishes, I guess this is the week when The Establishment Strikes Back?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    The obvious thing to do would be for the NEC to move to another room. But this is the Labour party, I suppose.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2016
    G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.

    *excuse?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    This has got to be good news for real candidates, and bad news for McDonnell (who was value as a post-split leader after Corbyn). Dan Jarvis 14/1?

    And will Clive Lewis make the ballot if Corbyn doesn't?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Didn't someone link a threatening letter from some lawyers on the last thread saying that one of the first things they would seek to do was expose the secret ballot as it was contrary to the Labour Constitution on fairness, openness etc.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Question: if they're going to vote imminently, why's the meeting expected to last beyond 6pm?

    Quite surprised Corbyn's in trouble, to be honest.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,596
    GIN1138 said:

    With May as PM and probably a continuity Cameron government, while Labour the PLP gets rid of Jezza against the memberships wishes, I guess this is the week when The Establishment Strikes Back?

    Spare a thought for the Green Party, if NEC do a 'stitch-up' for the sake of Labour, it is about to be inundated with the raging far left/Momentum looking for a home.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited July 2016
    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    Dadge said:

    the government needs to nail its colours to the mast.

    Just like Andrea Leadsom did...
    Anyone running a book as to whether Scott can get through 24hrs without posting the word "B****teer" ?

    On a knife edge..
    oh, is it a swearword now ;-)
    Funny....it used to be a badge of honour.......but then they all ran away.....

    All gone, all gone, all gone. All those Tory Brexiteers, gone, gone, gone. A merry, plucky, shameless band, who scaled the heights of the greasy pole, surveyed the view, blanched and threw themselves off. First Boris Johnson, wobbling with vertigo, then shoved from the platform by Michael Gove. Then Mr Gove himself, somehow unable to balance on his own. And now, finally, Andrea Leadsom; a woman who had simply never before climbed so high, didn’t have the coat for it and couldn’t stand the weather

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/andrea-leadsoms-demise-signals-the-end-of-the-nasty-party-h3k3nbwsz?shareToken=f07be91cd860fc1b5e8cd829bf19c2ac
    Pity people didn't suss what a bunch of chancers and charlatans the Leave campaigners were before June 23rd!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    JohnO said:

    Laura Kuenssberg sets out the expected Cabinet changes:

    "There is a consensus that Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, will become the chancellor, doing what might be one of the most powerful job swaps in the land with George Osborne.

    After too long in the Treasury bunker, most people expect him to be moved out. Chris Grayling is likely to head up the negotiations over us leaving the EU, in charge at whatever ministry is created to mastermind that process.

    As a prominent Eurosceptic who didn't get down in the gutter in the campaign, he is likely to rise, having run Theresa May's short campaign too.

    James Brokenshire, Theresa May's long-serving Home Office minister, is likely to be put in charge at that department - not a bad reward for years of having to defend the government's struggling immigration policy at the despatch box.

    Stephen Crabb is likely to be left where he is, John Whittingdale might be moved out of the culture brief, potentially to be replaced with Damian Green, a Europhile who was also part of May's campaign team.

    Priti Patel and Justine Greening are likely to be moved up, Nicky Morgan to be moved out, Amber Rudd and Sajid Javid both thought to be likely to stay where they are."

    To what extent, and in what respects, she is wrong will be a useful measurement of sentiment.

    That would be a most acceptable line-up.

    Damian Green would be a highly significant appointment. He is very pro-BBC.

    And the status quo, if the BBC is going to set itself free of the licence fee then they need a radical at Culture who is willing to stand the heat og privatisation. Green is the type who will not only let the BBC introduce subscription fees but let them keep the licence fee as it is.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    My prediction, FWIW, is that George Osborne will not be in the next cabinet.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Would it be so different with PR - a coalition of 5% here 20% there, etc. Spain is heading to it's 3rd GE as I write and Italy???? I also have concerns when the 'dispossessed' suddenly all become 'victims' of the rapacious and greedy rich folk down south. I'm from the w/c NE of England. My entire extended family over at least 4 generations through good and bad times have always had jobs, paid taxes and sacrificed for their children. Others we knew opted for the dole, fags and beer. Sometimes it's just the choices people make.

    You think Spain's going to have another election? My sources are pretty confident that there'll be a deal in the next week or so.
    Do tell - on the news today all the also-rans are refusing a coalition with PP.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Jeremy's deep love for the Labour party once again shining through.

    He's a Lefty - he's been pulling shit like this on procedure and standing orders all his political life. He's going nowhere.

    Like his Party.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Clinton grinning through howls of derision....
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    rcs1000 said:

    Ridiculous GDP growth revision of the day:

    "Ireland reported a surprise fall in GDP in the first quarter, but with enormous revisions showing that the economy grew by 26.3 per cent last year, against a previous reading of 7.8 per cent." from the FT

    Did they generate those by throwing at a dart board?
    Of course! We've been doing it wrong for years. We should just start making our economic stats up, like China. Let's get that feel good factor rolling.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    RobD said:

    Lord Chancellor of the Privy?

    Historically the Groom of the Stool was a powerful position, usually the king's closest confident.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,027
    Indigo said:

    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Didn't someone link a threatening letter from some lawyers on the last thread saying that one of the first things they would seek to do was expose the secret ballot as it was contrary to the Labour Constitution on fairness, openness etc.
    Maybe the votes are burnt, Papal Conclave style?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,584

    Question: if they're going to vote imminently, why's the meeting expected to last beyond 6pm?

    Quite surprised Corbyn's in trouble, to be honest.

    I think they are only on item 2 of the agenda
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.

    *excuse?

    recuse = play no part in a decision, owing to a conflict of interest or other risk of being seen as improper
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Max, licence fee *and* subscriptions is intellectually indefensible. It's like privatising the NHS for everything except A&E whilst retaining National Insurance.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,245
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Would it be so different with PR - a coalition of 5% here 20% there, etc. Spain is heading to it's 3rd GE as I write and Italy???? I also have concerns when the 'dispossessed' suddenly all become 'victims' of the rapacious and greedy rich folk down south. I'm from the w/c NE of England. My entire extended family over at least 4 generations through good and bad times have always had jobs, paid taxes and sacrificed for their children. Others we knew opted for the dole, fags and beer. Sometimes it's just the choices people make.

    You think Spain's going to have another election? My sources are pretty confident that there'll be a deal in the next week or so.
    Do tell - on the news today all the also-rans are refusing a coalition with PP.
    Bear in mind that I'm talking to financiers in Madrid! Their view is that once Rajoy realises that he is the impediment to a coalition then he will have no choice but to step down. They think he'll symbolically lose the first vote in the Cortes and then allow his successor to stitch something together with Citizen's.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,584

    G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.

    *excuse?

    No, recuse.

    There will however need to be a break to allow whichever former Corbynite raised their hand for secret voting to phone home and arrange for their windows to be boarded over.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    edited July 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Ridiculous GDP growth revision of the day:

    "Ireland reported a surprise fall in GDP in the first quarter, but with enormous revisions showing that the economy grew by 26.3 per cent last year, against a previous reading of 7.8 per cent." from the FT

    17.5% when taking into account inversions!
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    Alasdair said:

    Another great piece from Cyclefree.


    Yes to AV!!

    Actually I agree with you but cant see how it ever comes about
    The 1.5m who voted in the referendum because they realised their vote counted for once are an unanswerable argument for voting reform. If politics is to be for all the people all the people need to have a meaningful say.

    Precisely this. Anyone talking about listening to ordinary people in left-behind towns who then continues to advocate FPTP is a hypocrite. It's really as simple as that. And, yes, I include all Labour supporters, MPs and ex-ministers in that.

    And yet the same feelings exist in almost every country in the developed world regardless of the electoral system. It has to be deeper than that.
    Give places.

    Do I electorate? Nope.
    I PR.

    What known.

    You get to govern with 37% of the vote in the UK. That is not a system that is working for the many.

    Would it be so different with PR - a coalition of 5% here 20% there, etc. Spain is heading to for their children. Others we knew opted for the dole, fags and beer. Sometimes it's just the choices people make.

    It can be different with PR. Even in Spain two new parties have emerged, gained significant support and won seats in Parliament within five years of being formed.

    And that is why there has been no government 2 GE's on with a third on the way. I'm unclear as to quite which group of the dispossessed are gaining from this. Also worth noting that both of those parties lost seats and votes last time.

    The voters are getting the parties they voted for sitting in the Cortes. Those parties now have to find a way to work together. I really can't see what the problem is with that.

    Spain had a majority PP government before the last round of elections. Clearly, the Spanish people did not want another one.

    Overall, the Spanish electoral system has helped to deliver extraordinary and beneficial change to Spain over the last 40 years.

    Yes and Spain has some very familiar issues of the kind you refer to in the UK - except that here the corruption in the establishment elites is way worse than in the UK
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Indigo said:

    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Didn't someone link a threatening letter from some lawyers on the last thread saying that one of the first things they would seek to do was expose the secret ballot as it was contrary to the Labour Constitution on fairness, openness etc.
    I spy, with my little eye, something beginning with "i"....

    Injunction!!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,596

    This has got to be good news for real candidates, and bad news for McDonnell (who was value as a post-split leader after Corbyn). Dan Jarvis 14/1?

    And will Clive Lewis make the ballot if Corbyn doesn't?

    Time to take a bit of a plunge into Lab leader market. Small sums, just cover a few currently uncovered bases.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    rcs1000 said:

    Ridiculous GDP growth revision of the day:

    "Ireland reported a surprise fall in GDP in the first quarter, but with enormous revisions showing that the economy grew by 26.3 per cent last year, against a previous reading of 7.8 per cent." from the FT

    Did they generate those by throwing at a dart board?
    Does that require an expert?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    OllyT said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    Dadge said:

    the government needs to nail its colours to the mast.

    Just like Andrea Leadsom did...
    Anyone running a book as to whether Scott can get through 24hrs without posting the word "B****teer" ?

    On a knife edge..
    oh, is it a swearword now ;-)
    Funny....it used to be a badge of honour.......but then they all ran away.....

    All gone, all gone, all gone. All those Tory Brexiteers, gone, gone, gone. A merry, plucky, shameless band, who scaled the heights of the greasy pole, surveyed the view, blanched and threw themselves off. First Boris Johnson, wobbling with vertigo, then shoved from the platform by Michael Gove. Then Mr Gove himself, somehow unable to balance on his own. And now, finally, Andrea Leadsom; a woman who had simply never before climbed so high, didn’t have the coat for it and couldn’t stand the weather

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/andrea-leadsoms-demise-signals-the-end-of-the-nasty-party-h3k3nbwsz?shareToken=f07be91cd860fc1b5e8cd829bf19c2ac
    Pity people didn't suss what a bunch of chancers and charlatans the Leave campaigners were before June 23rd!
    You're too focused on the personalities. Johnson was the only significant figure and he was shanked almost by chance. Leave won because people were pissed off. I think Leave would have won if the campaign was headed by Fanny the Wonder dog.

    The Remain campaign being epically fucking useless helped of course.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    My prediction, FWIW, is that George Osborne will not be in the next cabinet.

    If only Hammond wasn't in it, would make my day.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    Lennon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Crick says Lab NEC heading for an evening finish

    Does he say which evening?
    It's all getting a bit Mornington crescent with Charlie Falconer waiting for a train to stop.
    Somebody really needs to edit the Wiki entry for Mornington Crescent. I mean, they preposterously say:

    "Despite appearances, however, there are no rules to the game, and both the naming of stations and the specification of "rules" are based on stream-of-consciousness association and improvisation. Thus the game is intentionally incomprehensible."

    I mean, who wrote that - John Snow?

    That of course was kinda my point. Welcome to the modern Labour party.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.

    *excuse?

    recuse = play no part in a decision, owing to a conflict of interest or other risk of being seen as improper
    I don't think this is a quasi-judicial tribunal, nor is Corbyn acting as either prosecutor or judge in any case...
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    My prediction, FWIW, is that George Osborne will not be in the next cabinet.

    I'd agree with that. I think Osborne's likely had enough as well.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,950

    My prediction, FWIW, is that George Osborne will not be in the next cabinet.

    Rejoice? ;)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,718
    Labour should have sold the pay per view rights to this NEC meeting, would have raised millions for party coffers
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    PlatoSaid said:

    Paul Waugh
    Utterly gripping drama going on right now. Jez staging sit-in at his own party? Who's going to frogmarch him out? https://t.co/IMlsv37Nfy

    :smiley:

    LOL!

    Have to say that Corbyn is the ultimate troll! And I'm not a fan!
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    Question: if they're going to vote imminently, why's the meeting expected to last beyond 6pm?

    Quite surprised Corbyn's in trouble, to be honest.

    They also have to decide on who is eligible to vote in the leadership election.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Labour, WTF!

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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    RobD said:

    Indigo said:

    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Didn't someone link a threatening letter from some lawyers on the last thread saying that one of the first things they would seek to do was expose the secret ballot as it was contrary to the Labour Constitution on fairness, openness etc.
    Maybe the votes are burnt, Papal Conclave style?
    Possibly, that would courageous since the last section on the letter warned them of the dangers of destroying documents that a court might later want to see.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,596
    edited July 2016
    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    Many thx. we'll see.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    But what is the tip ?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Indigo said:

    DanSmith said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The first thing that has to be agreed is the method of voting... And there is no way on earth Corbyn is going to allow a secret vote...

    It's not up to him.
    It is... A show of hands as to the method of voting will have to tally with the result of the vote as its just a proxy for the final vote...

    If as everyone expects public vote = Corbyn on ballot, secret ballot = Corbyn out

    then it follows that if you are voting for Corbyn in public you need to go for a public vote...
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 45s45 seconds ago
    Labour NEC vote 17-15 to hold secret votes on proceedings today

    Corbyn's in trouble.
    Didn't someone link a threatening letter from some lawyers on the last thread saying that one of the first things they would seek to do was expose the secret ballot as it was contrary to the Labour Constitution on fairness, openness etc.
    Plenty of precedents for a secret ballot at NEC.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Mr Observer,

    Jezza is a Trot - think Joe Stalin without the good bits.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Labour are engaging in dentistry without anaesthetic.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Would it be so different with PR - a coalition of 5% here 20% there, etc. Spain is heading to it's 3rd GE as I write and Italy???? I also have concerns when the 'dispossessed' suddenly all become 'victims' of the rapacious and greedy rich folk down south. I'm from the w/c NE of England. My entire extended family over at least 4 generations through good and bad times have always had jobs, paid taxes and sacrificed for their children. Others we knew opted for the dole, fags and beer. Sometimes it's just the choices people make.

    You think Spain's going to have another election? My sources are pretty confident that there'll be a deal in the next week or so.
    Do tell - on the news today all the also-rans are refusing a coalition with PP.
    Bear in mind that I'm talking to financiers in Madrid! Their view is that once Rajoy realises that he is the impediment to a coalition then he will have no choice but to step down. They think he'll symbolically lose the first vote in the Cortes and then allow his successor to stitch something together with Citizen's.
    Ah - yes I have heard those ideas and is as far as I can see the only option which might work. Otherwise though it's another vote - not a great advert for PR electoral systems at all. Never mind there's always Italy/Ireland/Israel ... oh.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    This has got to be good news for real candidates, and bad news for McDonnell (who was value as a post-split leader after Corbyn). Dan Jarvis 14/1?

    And will Clive Lewis make the ballot if Corbyn doesn't?


    *checks Chuka betting slip*
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    TGOHF said:

    jonny83 said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Labour NEC chair tells Corbyn to leave the room but Corbyn refuses to go

    Can they pick up the chair with him in it ?
    When the Tories do this kind of thing the chairman has a conveniently-placed button to activate the under-chair trapdoor.
    LOL
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    Many thx.
    I think you got the EU ref right as well - I remember lurking here before the results came in on Thursday, and you tipped Leave to win.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2016

    G-live: - According to Channel 4 News’ Michael Crick, Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to leave the room. As Labour leader Corbyn has a seat on the NEC, but some members think he should have to recuse* himself when his situation is being discussed.

    *excuse?

    recuse = play no part in a decision, owing to a conflict of interest or other risk of being seen as improper
    Cheers Mr Rabbit - I've learnt a new word today.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Indigo said:

    RobD said:

    Lord Chancellor of the Privy?

    Historically the Groom of the Stool was a powerful position, usually the king's closest confident.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
    Sounds like a load of cr**! :)
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    JenSJenS Posts: 91
    If the NEC get Corbyn off the ballot paper and exclude the latest surge of party newbies, Tom Watson has royally earned his Mr Fixit title back again.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuidoFawkes: Left caves in: Sanders backs Clinton, Corbyn abandons #NEC sit-in
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited July 2016
    Mansfield QC on Sky...

    "unequivocal" Jezza should be on the ballot.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    AndyJS said:

    What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.

    If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.
    That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Imagine how you would feel if you were a Corbyn supporter and they did this to your man?

    I work with two clever brothers who both went to Oxford. They are dyed in the wool Labour.

    Both are leaving the party if Corbyn is not on the ballot because they say it will be an affront to democracy.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.

    But what is the tip ?
    He tipped the NEC to destroy Corbyn. (Which opens up plenty of long-odds leader bets from the Right)

    We shall see.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    For all their talk of wanting "unity", the PLP are now clearly wanting Labour to split, and don't care about the damage it will do.
This discussion has been closed.