politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Keiran Pedley on why Jeremy Corbyn should not automatically
Comments
-
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
The split only works if the majority of the 172 go with it, taking major donors and Unions with them and leaving the Corbynites with only the name. More than half the PLP are needed to become the official Opposition and consign JC to sit next to the SNP, while the rebels take on the job of holding the government to account.Paristonda said:
I don't think you would see a couple MPs split off, either most will or they won't at all. It would be a complete waste of time for a couple of MPs to split off. SDP2.0 will fail like the first one, where they had only 23 splitters. They need to have enough MPs split to be official opposition and seen as successor party to Labour, or it's doomed from the start.valleyboy said:My CLP has about 600 members, the best part of 400 have joined last 12 months. They seem to come from all walks and ages. They are enthusiastic but almost entirely Corbynites. The 200 or so who had been around for yonks are older and more moderate. I am not sure the two see eye to eye on many policies.If Labour could find a way of marrying the two we would have a formidable party.I am not as pessimistic as some that the party will split, perhaps a few MPs.will peel off. This is why we need an open and honest election and whoever wins the rest of us will get behind him or her.
0 -
The SNP.kle4 said:
It's own backbenches seem to be very effective at the job. Maybe they could offer to substitute for Labour at the moment?rural_voter said:
Where's the official opposition to this one-party state to come from ... the House of Lords?!0 -
Maybe this is what Angela Eagle is the Stalking Horse for, in a sense. They've got to exhaust all the possibilities, after which a massive break-away will really be on the cards, with some legitimacy. The alternative would just be wholesale deselection anyway.Paristonda said:
I don't think you would see a couple MPs split off, either most will or they won't at all. It would be a complete waste of time for a couple of MPs to split off. SDP2.0 will fail like the first one, where they had only 23 splitters. They need to have enough MPs split to be official opposition and seen as successor party to Labour, or it's doomed from the start.valleyboy said:My CLP has about 600 members, the best part of 400 have joined last 12 months. They seem to come from all walks and ages. They are enthusiastic but almost entirely Corbynites. The 200 or so who had been around for yonks are older and more moderate. I am not sure the two see eye to eye on many policies.If Labour could find a way of marrying the two we would have a formidable party.I am not as pessimistic as some that the party will split, perhaps a few MPs.will peel off. This is why we need an open and honest election and whoever wins the rest of us will get behind him or her.
0 -
Sure, but not an option for long term opposition, given Scotland will be gone in a few years.nunu said:
The SNP.kle4 said:
It's own backbenches seem to be very effective at the job. Maybe they could offer to substitute for Labour at the moment?rural_voter said:
Where's the official opposition to this one-party state to come from ... the House of Lords?!
Night all.0 -
-
I fear my clever cultural reference to Yes Prime Minister has fallen on stony ground. God I feel old now.nunu said:
Post of the week.ThreeQuidder said:
Having big tits is better than being a big tit.John_M said:
The Daily Star don't care who runs the country, as long as they've got big tits.alex. said:
Daily Star yet to declare?MikeL said:Is even the Daily Express supporting May?
Tomorrow's headline looks friendly:
"May: EU Exit will work for Britain"
If so, does that mean every Conservative paper is supporting her?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M0 -
Kelly Brook and Samantha Fox for Parliament?ThreeQuidder said:
Having big tits is better than being a big tit.John_M said:
The Daily Star don't care who runs the country, as long as they've got big tits.alex. said:
Daily Star yet to declare?MikeL said:Is even the Daily Express supporting May?
Tomorrow's headline looks friendly:
"May: EU Exit will work for Britain"
If so, does that mean every Conservative paper is supporting her?
0 -
Quite. How can we support a candidate with a medically serious condition?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not at all - I think she means well but anyone who is compassionate does not like seeing someone suffer which she clearly is and there is nothing wrong with expressing concern for herwilliamglenn said:
Oh please... I think what you're really afraid of is that she'll rise to the occasion.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but there must be a real risk to her health and ability to cope with the intense scrutiny she will come under.HYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.
As Eric Pickles said today that if she gets in a mess with her first interview with a journalist how on earth would she cope with Putin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU66W9H-Y7w&feature=youtu.be
Excepting the danger to millions if she became incapacitated in a crisis (will Putin wait?) , it is surely the compassionate choice to excuse her the burden?
0 -
Indeed though I have reservations about Davis if he puts immigration controls over a single market deal, hopefully we can get bothBig_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
Local Authorities have a general duty to provide such care.viewcode said:
Fair enough, but parents get old and frail and will need the money. This isn't the 50's when people dropped in their 60's - these days they will last into their 80's/90's and their latter years will require a shedload of care and that care will cost.alex. said:Inheritance tax makes paying it back silly (dependent on the level of parental wealth, obviously).
If you have your head screwed on, you can avoid IHT and preserve your estate and ensure the LA picks up the tab for your care [currently about a 1 in 4 chance you might need it]
0 -
It will be interesting to see if Gove joins Theresa May's campaignSandpit said:
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
I don't have any serious medical conditions (maybe being a PB Tory is one?), and I often find myself falling asleep during talks/lecturesshiney2 said:
Quite. How can we support a candidate with a medically serious condition?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not at all - I think she means well but anyone who is compassionate does not like seeing someone suffer which she clearly is and there is nothing wrong with expressing concern for herwilliamglenn said:
Oh please... I think what you're really afraid of is that she'll rise to the occasion.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but there must be a real risk to her health and ability to cope with the intense scrutiny she will come under.HYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.
As Eric Pickles said today that if she gets in a mess with her first interview with a journalist how on earth would she cope with Putin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU66W9H-Y7w&feature=youtu.be
Excepting the danger to millions if she became incapacitated in a crisis (will Putin wait?) , it is surely the compassionate choice to excuse her the burden?
0 -
Seriously, we need to understand why MI5's Nick Griffin is falling in with Mrs May's campaign. What is the connection?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be interesting to see if Gove joins Theresa May's campaignSandpit said:
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
He's not really complaining, is he?viewcode said:
I have read the article and am not entirely sure what the complaint is. I understand he lives in an area he finds slightly unpleasant and is disappointed with his standing in life. But consider:AndyJS said:Interesting article:
"Help! I’m falling out of the middle class
I earn less than the median income, and far less than my parents. I should never have followed my dreams
Henry Jeffreys"
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/help-im-falling-out-of-the-middle-class/
a) his parents gave him his deposit
b) he owns a flat in London (he makes no mention of a mortgage: I'll assume he has one, albeit small as I don't think he could get a big one on a freelance salary)
c) he has a wife who doesn't work
d) he has one child
e) he bought the flat before house prices went ballistic
f) he's in his late 30's
I'll assume he bought his flat circa 2005. He doesn't mention sharing bedrooms, so it's two-bed. So he has a two-bed council flat in London: I'd guess he bought it for £150K, his dad's deposit was £50K[1], his mortgage was about £100K, and he's paid off about £25K in the ten years.
It's now 2016. His flat is worth (pre-Brexit!) about £250K. So he has positive equity around £170K. He can sell his flat, port his mortgage, and buy a 1-bed house or a 2-bed flat in a far-better neighbourhood in Thamesmead (Essex), Slough/Reading (Berks/Bucks), or Kent, or whatever. I assume that as he is a freelance writer, he doesn't have to live in London nor commute.
So he does have the capability to solve his dilemma.
[1] Normal people may look on aghast at a grown man accepting £50K as a gift from a parent without even trying to pay it back, but I have discovered to my amazement that this is unexceptional. The middle-classes have a different view of money than others.
0 -
No need to feel old - it's my favourite show and I'm...crap, practically 30!John_M said:
I fear my clever cultural reference to Yes Prime Minister has fallen on stony ground. God I feel old now.nunu said:
Post of the week.ThreeQuidder said:
Having big tits is better than being a big tit.John_M said:
The Daily Star don't care who runs the country, as long as they've got big tits.alex. said:
Daily Star yet to declare?MikeL said:Is even the Daily Express supporting May?
Tomorrow's headline looks friendly:
"May: EU Exit will work for Britain"
If so, does that mean every Conservative paper is supporting her?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M0 -
If he does then Leadsom should really step aside.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be interesting to see if Gove joins Theresa May's campaignSandpit said:
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
Just as well you aren't going to assume control of any nuclear missiles.RobD said:
I don't have any serious medical conditions (maybe being a PB Tory is one?), and I often find myself falling asleep during talks/lecturesshiney2 said:
Quite. How can we support a candidate with a medically serious condition?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not at all - I think she means well but anyone who is compassionate does not like seeing someone suffer which she clearly is and there is nothing wrong with expressing concern for herwilliamglenn said:
Oh please... I think what you're really afraid of is that she'll rise to the occasion.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but there must be a real risk to her health and ability to cope with the intense scrutiny she will come under.HYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.
As Eric Pickles said today that if she gets in a mess with her first interview with a journalist how on earth would she cope with Putin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU66W9H-Y7w&feature=youtu.be
Excepting the danger to millions if she became incapacitated in a crisis (will Putin wait?) , it is surely the compassionate choice to excuse her the burden?
I hope...0 -
Frustrated that we have this internal strife when Labour should be putting the Tories to the sword.
Ignoring Corbyn's penchant for missing open goals, I don't see what good Labour tearing into the Tories would have done. Cameron and Osborne's reputations are already trashed. People weren't looking for told you so's, they were looking for some leadership and stability.
The best way Labour could have put the Tories to the sword would have been to have looked like a government in waiting, ready to clear up the mess. What a massive missed opportunity for Labour that they weren't in a position to offer that.0 -
I know that, but the chance to draw the comparison with Corbyn was irresistible...John_M said:
I fear my clever cultural reference to Yes Prime Minister has fallen on stony ground. God I feel old now.nunu said:
Post of the week.ThreeQuidder said:
Having big tits is better than being a big tit.John_M said:
The Daily Star don't care who runs the country, as long as they've got big tits.alex. said:
Daily Star yet to declare?MikeL said:Is even the Daily Express supporting May?
Tomorrow's headline looks friendly:
"May: EU Exit will work for Britain"
If so, does that mean every Conservative paper is supporting her?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M0 -
That would be a very good move, would hopefully get the members looking at two candidates other than through the prism of yesterday's referendum campaign.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be interesting to see if Gove joins Theresa May's campaignSandpit said:
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
Gove is surely still too toxic?Sandpit said:
That would be a very good move, would hopefully get the members looking at two candidates other than through the prism of yesterday's referendum campaign.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be interesting to see if Gove joins Theresa May's campaignSandpit said:
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
I disagree, Keiran. MPs don't have to follow a party whip if they don't want to, and the analogy with the House of Commons having to have confidence in a prime minister (and a government, and indeed each minister taken individually) is false.
The Labour leader is elected by the party membership and should only be unelectable by them. If he is the prime minister at the time and enough Labour MPs express a lack of confidence in him as prime minister, and the Tories want him out too, then he loses his job as prime minister.
Like it or loathe it, Labour MPs have been elected on the Labour platform, and Labour is a political party. If a group of Labour MPs want to leave that party and form another one, they are perfectly entitled to. Unfortunately there wouldn't even have to be any by-elections. If their new party is the largest opposition party, then it would be able to choose the leader of the opposition according to its own rules.
The anti-Corbynite faction in the Labour party - the Trident lovers, as I call them, which is a much more apposite term than "Blairites" - want to have their cake and eat it. Their parliamentary leader is chosen by the party membership, and if they don't like it, let them leave the party. There are probably enough of them to form the main opposition party. The only reason the creeps haven't done it yet is because they haven't got the guts to risk their seats. Let's not talk about them as though they have principles.
Wanting to vote in favour of the Tory government signing £200 billion worth of contracts for weapons designed to destroy foreign cities isn't what I'd call a "principle".0 -
Probably not too much among the leave-inclined members. I think he took one for the team in getting the totally unsuitable Boris out of the race, if he backs May now it would help get rid of the idea that the leadership contest is between Theresa Remain and Andrea Leave.williamglenn said:
Gove is surely still too toxic?Sandpit said:
That would be a very good move, would hopefully get the members looking at two candidates other than through the prism of yesterday's referendum campaign.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be interesting to see if Gove joins Theresa May's campaignSandpit said:
Remerge Home and Justice, have Gove run that so he can continue his work on prison reform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That would be an excellent choice. It has also been suggested she would appoint Michael Gove as Home SecretaryHYUFD said:
Yes but they will set the terms of the trade deal to be voted on by cabinet and the HOC. The ST reports today May is thinking of appointing David Davis to lead the Brexit negotiationsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Just noticed - both May and Leadsom have the mandate to take us out of the EU. Neither will have the power to decide on the actual trade deal without full cabinet agreement and a vote in the HOCHYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.0 -
Thanks Margaret "Teflon" Hodge and her "Ramsay MacDonald" army.Artist said:Ignoring Corbyn's penchant for missing open goals, I don't see what good Labour tearing into the Tories would have done. Cameron and Osborne's reputations are already trashed. People weren't looking for told you so's, they were looking for some leadership and stability.
The best way Labour could have put the Tories to the sword would have been to have looked like a government in waiting, ready to clear up the mess. What a massive missed opportunity for Labour that they weren't in a position to offer that.0 -
I thought Trident renewal was current Labour policy?John_N4 said:I disagree, Keiran. MPs don't have to follow a party whip if they don't want to, and the analogy with the House of Commons having to have confidence in a prime minister (and a government, and indeed each minister taken individually) is false.
The Labour leader is elected by the party membership and should only be unelectable by them. If he is the prime minister at the time and enough Labour MPs express a lack of confidence in him as prime minister, and the Tories want him out too, then he loses his job as prime minister.
Like it or loathe it, Labour MPs have been elected on the Labour platform, and Labour is a political party. If a group of Labour MPs want to leave that party and form another one, they are perfectly entitled to. Unfortunately there wouldn't even have to be any by-elections. If their new party is the largest opposition party, then it would be able to choose the leader of the opposition according to its own rules.
The anti-Corbynite faction in the Labour party - the Trident lovers, as I call them, which is a much more apposite term than "Blairites" - want to have their cake and eat it. Their parliamentary leader is chosen by the party membership, and if they don't like it, let them leave the party. There are probably enough of them to form the main opposition party. The only reason the creeps haven't done it yet is because they haven't got the guts to risk their seats. Let's not talk about them as though they have principles.
Wanting to vote in favour of the Tory government signing £200 billion worth of contracts for weapons designed to destroy foreign cities isn't what I'd call a "principle".
0 -
Is the button typically pushed during a long winded speech in the Commons (one which you aren't giving yourself)?shiney2 said:
Just as well you aren't going to assume control of any nuclear missiles.RobD said:
I don't have any serious medical conditions (maybe being a PB Tory is one?), and I often find myself falling asleep during talks/lecturesshiney2 said:
Quite. How can we support a candidate with a medically serious condition?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not at all - I think she means well but anyone who is compassionate does not like seeing someone suffer which she clearly is and there is nothing wrong with expressing concern for herwilliamglenn said:
Oh please... I think what you're really afraid of is that she'll rise to the occasion.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but there must be a real risk to her health and ability to cope with the intense scrutiny she will come under.HYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.
As Eric Pickles said today that if she gets in a mess with her first interview with a journalist how on earth would she cope with Putin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU66W9H-Y7w&feature=youtu.be
Excepting the danger to millions if she became incapacitated in a crisis (will Putin wait?) , it is surely the compassionate choice to excuse her the burden?
I hope...0 -
I would have thought a Buddhist-backed party would be against militarisation!nunu said:0 -
I thought you had me there for a moment, but apparently it isn't really - it's in review and would be reconsidered in the event of there being a vote on the issue in the Commons. Although according to the wildly hedging Labour "aide" quoted, that would depend on how the said vote was "framed". I hope in any Labour leadership election, Corbyn manages to link a decision to oppose Trident with a decision to support him as leader.RobD said:
I thought Trident renewal was current Labour policy?John_N4 said:I disagree, Keiran. MPs don't have to follow a party whip if they don't want to, and the analogy with the House of Commons having to have confidence in a prime minister (and a government, and indeed each minister taken individually) is false.
The Labour leader is elected by the party membership and should only be unelectable by them. If he is the prime minister at the time and enough Labour MPs express a lack of confidence in him as prime minister, and the Tories want him out too, then he loses his job as prime minister.
Like it or loathe it, Labour MPs have been elected on the Labour platform, and Labour is a political party. If a group of Labour MPs want to leave that party and form another one, they are perfectly entitled to. Unfortunately there wouldn't even have to be any by-elections. If their new party is the largest opposition party, then it would be able to choose the leader of the opposition according to its own rules.
The anti-Corbynite faction in the Labour party - the Trident lovers, as I call them, which is a much more apposite term than "Blairites" - want to have their cake and eat it. Their parliamentary leader is chosen by the party membership, and if they don't like it, let them leave the party. There are probably enough of them to form the main opposition party. The only reason the creeps haven't done it yet is because they haven't got the guts to risk their seats. Let's not talk about them as though they have principles.
Wanting to vote in favour of the Tory government signing £200 billion worth of contracts for weapons designed to destroy foreign cities isn't what I'd call a "principle".0 -
Going back to your earlier point about being elected on a Labour platform...John_N4 said:
I thought you had me there for a moment, but apparently it isn't really - it's in review and would be reconsidered in the event of there being a vote on the issue in the Commons. Although according to the wildly hedging Labour "aide" quoted, that would depend on how the said vote was "framed". I hope in any Labour leadership election, Corbyn manages to link a decision to oppose Trident with a decision to support him as leader.RobD said:
I thought Trident renewal was current Labour policy?John_N4 said:I disagree, Keiran. MPs don't have to follow a party whip if they don't want to, and the analogy with the House of Commons having to have confidence in a prime minister (and a government, and indeed each minister taken individually) is false.
The Labour leader is elected by the party membership and should only be unelectable by them. If he is the prime minister at the time and enough Labour MPs express a lack of confidence in him as prime minister, and the Tories want him out too, then he loses his job as prime minister.
Like it or loathe it, Labour MPs have been elected on the Labour platform, and Labour is a political party. If a group of Labour MPs want to leave that party and form another one, they are perfectly entitled to. Unfortunately there wouldn't even have to be any by-elections. If their new party is the largest opposition party, then it would be able to choose the leader of the opposition according to its own rules.
The anti-Corbynite faction in the Labour party - the Trident lovers, as I call them, which is a much more apposite term than "Blairites" - want to have their cake and eat it. Their parliamentary leader is chosen by the party membership, and if they don't like it, let them leave the party. There are probably enough of them to form the main opposition party. The only reason the creeps haven't done it yet is because they haven't got the guts to risk their seats. Let's not talk about them as though they have principles.
Wanting to vote in favour of the Tory government signing £200 billion worth of contracts for weapons designed to destroy foreign cities isn't what I'd call a "principle".
Given that the renewal of Trident was party policy at the time of the last election, then surely the MPs elected on that platform are constrained to follow that policy as it was the one endorsed by the people who put them in power - the electorate...0 -
So long as they don't have any money, the care will get paid for by someone else ...viewcode said:
Fair enough, but parents get old and frail and will need the money. This isn't the 50's when people dropped in their 60's - these days they will last into their 80's/90's and their latter years will require a shedload of care and that care will cost.alex. said:Inheritance tax makes paying it back silly (dependent on the level of parental wealth, obviously).
For a lot of families this may be an even more compelling argument than future inheritance taxes for parents to give money to their kids now - or just spend it on something they really want.
(An alternative model might be to make the kids liable for their parents' care, a kind of filial piety law...)0 -
Neville Chamberlain came to regret the 'Saturday Morning' surprises of his principal foreign adversary. Who knows what our current adversaries will take advantage of if they perceive Mrs May is subject to intermittent uncontrolled diabetic 'events'.RobD said:
Is the button typically pushed during a long winded speech in the Commons (one which you aren't giving yourself)?shiney2 said:
Just as well you aren't going to assume control of any nuclear missiles.RobD said:
I don't have any serious medical conditions (maybe being a PB Tory is one?), and I often find myself falling asleep during talks/lecturesshiney2 said:
Quite. How can we support a candidate with a medically serious condition?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not at all - I think she means well but anyone who is compassionate does not like seeing someone suffer which she clearly is and there is nothing wrong with expressing concern for herwilliamglenn said:
Oh please... I think what you're really afraid of is that she'll rise to the occasion.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but there must be a real risk to her health and ability to cope with the intense scrutiny she will come under.HYUFD said:
She cannot step down, she is the Leave candidate and May has to win the endorsement of the membership in a proper contest to have a mandate to pursue BREXIT and take the UK into the EEABig_G_NorthWales said:
She needs to be kind to herself and step down. She runs the risk of being overwhelmed as each day goes by.Scott_P said:@KeirSimmons: Andrea Leadsom says she has been crying... Extraordinary interview from a candidate to be British Prime Minister... https://t.co/QpV4g4Bl2k
I do not think she meant to be cruel in what she said but is was naive and she really needs a cabinet position under Theresa May to further her career and take her out of the full on spotlight.
As Eric Pickles said today that if she gets in a mess with her first interview with a journalist how on earth would she cope with Putin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU66W9H-Y7w&feature=youtu.be
Excepting the danger to millions if she became incapacitated in a crisis (will Putin wait?) , it is surely the compassionate choice to excuse her the burden?
I hope...0 -
Surely the only questions are: do British taxpayers get value for money? is the train service good?HaroldO said:
The biggest complaint for me is the ownership structure by which European public owned railways are taking profits from our systems to subsidise their own. Although some British TOCs are beginning to branch out abroad, the reverse is more often true.JosiasJessop said:
This is slightly disingenuous. The current figures include exceptional items such as Crossrail: if they are stripped out, the current network grant to NR is £3.8 billion. At today's prices, BR often received grants of around £2 billion.Paul_Bedfordshire said:If BR had had the £5 billion a year subsidy that this lot get rather than the less than one billion a year they got things would have been somewhat different.
In addition, train operating companies are also returning money to the government - £802 million (*) in 2014/5, partially offsetting those grants.
Since those days, passenger numbers have more than doubled. Hence, the amount spent in the network grant per passenger has not increased too much, if at all.
So we are getting more passengers, with better trains, on an expanding, modernised network. Britain's railways have never been in better shape (**). What's to complain about?
http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/18842/rail-finance-statistical-release-2014-15.pdf
(*) Nearly half of which was from South West Trains.
(**) There are problems with freight, given the massive decrease in trainload coal, which was the whole reason many railways were created.
I really do not want them nationalised, but some reforms are needed.
If a subsidiary of Deutsche Bahn can offer a better quality train at a discount to Virgin and make a profit, good for them. Who cares who the ultimate owner is.0 -
You can get an annuity to cover the cost of careMyBurningEars said:
So long as they don't have any money, the care will get paid for by someone else ...viewcode said:
Fair enough, but parents get old and frail and will need the money. This isn't the 50's when people dropped in their 60's - these days they will last into their 80's/90's and their latter years will require a shedload of care and that care will cost.alex. said:Inheritance tax makes paying it back silly (dependent on the level of parental wealth, obviously).
For a lot of families this may be an even more compelling argument than future inheritance taxes for parents to give money to their kids now - or just spend it on something they really want.
(An alternative model might be to make the kids liable for their parents' care, a kind of filial piety law...)0 -
Mensch on Five Live defending Leadsom.0
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21977640EPG said:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/01/buddhists-continue-to-slaughter-muslims-in-myanmar/
https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/full-text-of-the-banned-time-story-the-face-of-buddhist-terror/0 -
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-may-not-happen-eu-referendum-italy-foreign-minister-a7129316.html?amp?client=ms-android-oneplus#
They really don't understand the British do they? Comparing this referendum to others in Europe? Lol. Thank god we left.0 -
Komeito give the strong impression of being neither for nor against anything, apart from remaining in power.nunu said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21977640EPG said:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/01/buddhists-continue-to-slaughter-muslims-in-myanmar/
https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/full-text-of-the-banned-time-story-the-face-of-buddhist-terror/
As to whether they're actually buddhists, some would disagree that SGI is actually buddhist.0 -
Keiran Pedley, thanks for that excellent and informative article, much appreciated.
Key point.
"However, returning to the present day, it seems clear that Labour’s current system for choosing and removing leaders is not fit for purpose. Any future Labour Prime Minister will need to command the support of the PLP to govern effectively or indeed govern at all."
0 -
So Leadsom has issued an "apology" along the lines of "there was nothing wrong with what I said but I'm sorry if Theresa May was offended by it".
In particular, she claims "I was pressed to say how my children had formed my views. I didn't want it to be used as an issue."
What she doesn't say, of course, is that that question was just a response to Leadsom herself having raised - unprompted - her family, including her children, when asked what was the main difference between her and Theresa May.
Politicians, of course, are not generally noted for either their honesty or their intelligence. But Leadsom manages to be outstanding in both her duplicity and her stupidity.0 -
fitalass - just to say thanks for your 4am reply to my post last night re Scottish Con members - only read it later today so didn't have the opportunity to thank you at the appropriate time.
I was encouraged to hear what you said.0 -
But that isn't true, Louise Mensch's family circumstances changed dramatically after she became an MP. It is tough enough for many MPs in the more far flung parts of the UK to manage their family life with that London commute. But when your spouse is living and working across in the US, that commute becomes that bit more difficult. I cannot knock someone for trying to make it work and then deciding to put their family life first instead.rcs1000 said:
Andrea Leadsom: a woman who, even when it was tough, stood up for what she believed.AndyJS said:Mensch on Five Live defending Leadsom.
Louise Mensch: a woman who didn't realise being an MP involved actual work, and went to live in Twitterland instead.
I don't agree with Mensch's stance on Leadsom, but it is clear that she still misses UK politics.0 -
Hi MikeL, I was just about to message you to say that I did finally catch your post and replied to it.MikeL said:fitalass - just to say thanks for your 4am reply to my post last night re Scottish Con members - only read it later today so didn't have the opportunity to thank you at the appropriate time.
I was encouraged to hear what you said.
0 -
Agreed! It is incredible that her supporters are now trying to claim Leadsom is some how being bullied, smeared, and has become the victim of a dirty tricks campaign because the Times printed her own unprompted nasty motherhood dig at May! I suspect that the Leadsom campaign is going to lurch from one campaign tactical error to another until someone final says enough. The big problem for Leadsom's supporters is that they are not backing her so much as a suitable candidate and future PM, but instead her Brexit credentials to the point that they want to gloss over her clear inadequacies.Chris said:So Leadsom has issued an "apology" along the lines of "there was nothing wrong with what I said but I'm sorry if Theresa May was offended by it".
In particular, she claims "I was pressed to say how my children had formed my views. I didn't want it to be used as an issue."
What she doesn't say, of course, is that that question was just a response to Leadsom herself having raised - unprompted - her family, including her children, when asked what was the main difference between her and Theresa May.
Politicians, of course, are not generally noted for either their honesty or their intelligence. But Leadsom manages to be outstanding in both her duplicity and her stupidity.0 -
Yes. I'm sure that from a betting point of view the crucial question is, simply, what percentage of Tory party members are so fanatically anti-European that they will back a candidate with absolutely no aptitude or suitability for the job, simply because she was on the Brexit side of the argument.fitalass said:The big problem for Leadsom's supporters is that they are not backing her so much as a suitable candidate and future PM, but instead her Brexit credentials to the point that they want to gloss over her clear inadequacies.
0 -
As Shaw wrote 'My country right or wrong' is as foolish as 'My mother drunk or sober'.fitalass said:
Agreed! It is incredible that her supporters are now trying to claim Leadsom is some how being bullied, smeared, and has become the victim of a dirty tricks campaign because the Times printed her own unprompted nasty motherhood dig at May! I suspect that the Leadsom campaign is going to lurch from one campaign tactical error to another until someone final says enough. The big problem for Leadsom's supporters is that they are not backing her so much as a suitable candidate and future PM, but instead her Brexit credentials to the point that they want to gloss over her clear inadequacies.Chris said:So Leadsom has issued an "apology" along the lines of "there was nothing wrong with what I said but I'm sorry if Theresa May was offended by it".
In particular, she claims "I was pressed to say how my children had formed my views. I didn't want it to be used as an issue."
What she doesn't say, of course, is that that question was just a response to Leadsom herself having raised - unprompted - her family, including her children, when asked what was the main difference between her and Theresa May.
Politicians, of course, are not generally noted for either their honesty or their intelligence. But Leadsom manages to be outstanding in both her duplicity and her stupidity.
It will be interesting to learn how Leadsom actually apologised to May as she's vague on that....in her prayers perhaps?
I do hope TV interviewers explore with IDS how this 'black ops' exercise managed to get Leadsom to over-egg her CV, run off at the mouth with the Times, accuse them of lying, then admit they'd been telling the truth.....thats some black ops.......0 -
On topic - excellent thread - clearer than I've read in any of the press.0
-
Theresa May deserves a personal apology from Leadsom for her unprompted remarks in that Times interview. Just add empathy to the list of qualities that Andrea Leadsom lacks.CarlottaVance said:
As Shaw wrote 'My country right or wrong' is as foolish as 'My mother drunk or sober'.fitalass said:
Agreed! It is incredible that her supporters are now trying to claim Leadsom is some how being bullied, smeared, and has become the victim of a dirty tricks campaign because the Times printed her own unprompted nasty motherhood dig at May! I suspect that the Leadsom campaign is going to lurch from one campaign tactical error to another until someone final says enough. The big problem for Leadsom's supporters is that they are not backing her so much as a suitable candidate and future PM, but instead her Brexit credentials to the point that they want to gloss over her clear inadequacies.Chris said:So Leadsom has issued an "apology" along the lines of "there was nothing wrong with what I said but I'm sorry if Theresa May was offended by it".
In particular, she claims "I was pressed to say how my children had formed my views. I didn't want it to be used as an issue."
What she doesn't say, of course, is that that question was just a response to Leadsom herself having raised - unprompted - her family, including her children, when asked what was the main difference between her and Theresa May.
Politicians, of course, are not generally noted for either their honesty or their intelligence. But Leadsom manages to be outstanding in both her duplicity and her stupidity.
It will be interesting to learn how Leadsom actually apologised to May as she's vague on that....in her prayers perhaps?
I do hope TV interviewers explore with IDS how this 'black ops' exercise managed to get Leadsom to over-egg her CV, run off at the mouth with the Times, accuse them of lying, then admit they'd been telling the truth.....thats some black ops.......0 -
I know her supporters on here have decried it - but Leadsom could join May in signing the campaign pledge along the lines of 'look how much more grown up we women are than the men.....'fitalass said:
Theresa May deserves a personal apology from Leadsom for her unprompted remarks in that Times interview. Just add empathy to the list of qualities that Andrea Leadsom lacks.CarlottaVance said:
As Shaw wrote 'My country right or wrong' is as foolish as 'My mother drunk or sober'.fitalass said:
Agreed! It is incredible that her supporters are now trying to claim Leadsom is some how being bullied, smeared, and has become the victim of a dirty tricks campaign because the Times printed her own unprompted nasty motherhood dig at May! I suspect that the Leadsom campaign is going to lurch from one campaign tactical error to another until someone final says enough. The big problem for Leadsom's supporters is that they are not backing her so much as a suitable candidate and future PM, but instead her Brexit credentials to the point that they want to gloss over her clear inadequacies.Chris said:So Leadsom has issued an "apology" along the lines of "there was nothing wrong with what I said but I'm sorry if Theresa May was offended by it".
In particular, she claims "I was pressed to say how my children had formed my views. I didn't want it to be used as an issue."
What she doesn't say, of course, is that that question was just a response to Leadsom herself having raised - unprompted - her family, including her children, when asked what was the main difference between her and Theresa May.
Politicians, of course, are not generally noted for either their honesty or their intelligence. But Leadsom manages to be outstanding in both her duplicity and her stupidity.
It will be interesting to learn how Leadsom actually apologised to May as she's vague on that....in her prayers perhaps?
I do hope TV interviewers explore with IDS how this 'black ops' exercise managed to get Leadsom to over-egg her CV, run off at the mouth with the Times, accuse them of lying, then admit they'd been telling the truth.....thats some black ops.......
And she needs to get some of her 'supporters' on a tighter leash - from Bernard Jenkin to IDS their 'help' is proving distinctly unhelpful....0 -
"Andrea Leadsom has reiterated the government’s stance on climate change policy following the outcome of the EU referendum, claiming the country remains committed to dealing with the issue.
Speaking at an event in Westminster on 5 July, the energy minister and Conservative leadership hopeful said Brexit had not changed the government’s stance on the importance of lowering emissions in the context of the ‘energy trilemma’."
http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/leadsom_confirms_uk_commitment_to_climate_change_despite_brexit_vote0 -
Not so coded criticism of Cameron/Osborne?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3683723/Theresa-May-vows-Conservatives-service-working-people.html0 -
That'll thrill some of her supporters.......but is she speaking as a government minister, or as a candidate?AndyJS said:"Andrea Leadsom has reiterated the government’s stance on climate change policy following the outcome of the EU referendum, claiming the country remains committed to dealing with the issue.
Speaking at an event in Westminster on 5 July, the energy minister and Conservative leadership hopeful said Brexit had not changed the government’s stance on the importance of lowering emissions in the context of the ‘energy trilemma’."
http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/leadsom_confirms_uk_commitment_to_climate_change_despite_brexit_vote0 -
Paul Kirkby
Amazing statistic that says so much about NATO. US spends more on military bands than some allies spend on defence https://t.co/S6QrHo4fa80 -
Theresa May has used the "not just the privileged few" line before, possibly at her campaign launch, so whether or not it is a sideswipe at Cameron, it is certainly intended.CarlottaVance said:Not so coded criticism of Cameron/Osborne?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3683723/Theresa-May-vows-Conservatives-service-working-people.html
On race and class, May could be channelling Michael Gove so it will be interesting to see if Gove is promoted come Autumn. Not just Gove though but Disraeli, for surely this is one-nation Toryism.
On corporate governance, is she taking ideas from Germany?
Anyway, it is good to see that Theresa May is making a positive pitch for the job, rather than just attacking (via proxies) Andrea Leadsom.
0 -
Luxembourg? Iceland? Surely more interesting is the UK's 50% loss of manufacturing jobs if you scroll down a bit. Or for May and Gove, the Dutch prison closures at the top.PlatoSaid said:Paul Kirkby
Amazing statistic that says so much about NATO. US spends more on military bands than some allies spend on defence https://t.co/S6QrHo4fa80 -
And in fairness, Estonia is meeting its 2% commitment.DecrepitJohnL said:
Luxembourg? Iceland? Surely more interesting is the UK's 50% loss of manufacturing jobs if you scroll down a bit. Or for May and Gove, the Dutch prison closures at the top.PlatoSaid said:Paul Kirkby
Amazing statistic that says so much about NATO. US spends more on military bands than some allies spend on defence https://t.co/S6QrHo4fa8
Also interesting - Q1 2016 House Prices annual change:
London +15%
Bristol +14%
Birmingham +8%
Manchester +6%
Nottingham +5%
Glasgow +3%
Edinburgh -3%
Aberdeen -11%0 -
The Sun not sold on IDS 'black ops' claim:
IT’S increasingly clear that Andrea Leadsom lacks the experience and temperament to be our next Prime Minister.
Mrs Leadsom should have spent the weekend reflecting on the purpose of her campaign after a bruising few days.
Instead, former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith was dispatched across the UK media to accuse the Conservative Party “establishment” of waging a “black ops” operation against Leadsom’s candidacy.
This is demonstrably absurd.
It’s not a smear to check if a candidate for the biggest job in the country has embellished her CV.
Nor is it underhand for a newspaper to print words spoken by their interviewee, even if they were meant without malice.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1423899/andrea-leadsoms-lost-her-head-tory-leadership-candidate-has-shown-shes-lacking-in-vital-qualities-that-make-a-prime-minister/0 -
NEW THREAD0
