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@PeterMannionMP: I note that both Gove and May held launches introduced by senior people from opposing side of Brexit debate. Not Leadsom. #ToryLeadership0
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That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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That AV thread is on ice, pending an explanation of FPTP by TSE!Scott_P said:@Morkins: Here are the rules for the UKIP leadership contest. @BBCNewsnight @UKIP https://t.co/IaT4jzncEi
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Hardly news Nigel standing down, I predicted it on here weeks ago, he's the most influential politician in decades, unbelievable that he's done that without being an MP. Having spent a bit of time with him he must be drained, I'm delighted he can step down having fulfilled 20 years of sheer graft.
Woolf is my choice, measured, sensible, in many ways the antithesis of Nigel's charismatic shoot from the hip approach. It shouldn't matter but his mixed race will help, as will his Moss Side upbringing. Fascinating to see where the party goes from here.0 -
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Exactly so, which is the EEA wing of the Brexiteers are storing up so much trouble for themselves (and the party) - The Great Betrayal On Immigration - while expecting we Remainers to see them through to this least worst option should a second referendum on the terms of exit be forthcoming. Some of us may not be so keen in getting them off the hook.bondegezou said:
.SouthamObserver said:
There is a very big gap in the market. But I am not sure UKIP has the leaders or members with the political inclinations to fill it. Nuttall has a Scouse accent, but has advocated abolishing the NHS. In Labour heartland constituencies one of those things is going to be a lot more important than the other.HurstLlama said:SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm. Not sure how that works to be honest. Without us being in the EU what does UKIP stand for? It could shift sharply left on economics, while remaining socially conservative and even more anti-immigration, but which leadership candidate could do that credibly? If immigration does fall now, the anti-immigration rhetoric will need to get ever louder to be heard. Should that happen it would be tricky to keep UKIP in the mainstream.eek said:
Don't worry with Farage gone UKIP are perfectly positioned to do an SNP to Labour in the Midlands and the North...TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't say that. That's a truly depressing thought.AlastairMeeks said:To join the Conservative party under Andrea Leadsom's leadership?
Should be remembered Farage vowed to destroy the Tory party a few years ago.
As the Leave promises crumble, UKIP claim the voters have been betrayed once again by the Westminster elite and the only way to truly deliver on Brexit and a post-Brexit utopia is to vote UKIP.
Do that and I think they can get 50% of the Leave vote, which would be double their 2015 vote. Which I would find deeply depressing, but it seems an obvious strategy for them to take.
This wouldn't work if the Tories adopt a hardline post-Brexit position by choosing Leadsom, but that seems unlikely at present. If Leadsom wins, then UKIP can just merge into the Conservatives.
But this will take 18 months or so, during which UKIP's polling is likely to decline. Cue for Generalissimo Nigel to retake the reins.....0 -
Oppositions don't win elections; Governments lose them. As any vaguely competent student of politics knows.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
Someone just took £56 @ 1000.0 on Owen Smith as our next Prime Minister. Bold, or possibly wrong market syndrome.0
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If the final two were Leadsom and Fox, I'd be voting Fox, that's how bad I think Andrea Leadsom is.
Tombstoners and triggering Article 50 on day 1 one of her Premiership says it all.0 -
To be fair LuckyGuy is a kipper and long may he so remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.
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If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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So do I. I am sure that you, personally, would accept it it Parliament passed some motion along the lines of "This House accepts the result of the EU referendum as the will of the British People, and that the UK will leave the EU".rottenborough said:
No, Remainer. Sorry to disappoint. I just want the whole thing to be played by the rules.Disraeli said:
You seem to be a staunch supporter of Parliamentary sovereignty (as am I).rottenborough said:
Whether a referendum should trump Parliamentary sovereignty is neither here nor there. It doesn't and that was made clear when it was held as an advisory referendum. Now whether it is politically a good idea for MPs to overturn the wishes of the people is a separate question.Philip_Thompson said:
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.not_on_fire said:
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?david_herdson said:
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?not_on_fire said:
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliamentRobD said:
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.not_on_fire said:
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.David_Evershed said:Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
I can't remember which way everyone who posts on PB.com voted. However, I since remaining in the EU would have meant further erosion of this sovereignty, then you must be a Leaver. (or maybe you did not vote?)
Forgive me for appearing cynical, but I am sure many Remainers will not. They will move on to some other excuse.0 -
Julia Hartley Brewer
Can someone in the LibDems please mount a leadership challenge against @timfarron. I'm worried that he's feeling a bit left out of the fun.0 -
Yes, I think if the May camp can engineer that then they might make it happen. Though there may be howls from Tombstone and the others in pursuit if ideological purity.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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Henry Smith MP
Seriously, have just received email from EU Commission employee located in Brussels demanding as #Crawley MP I vote to cancel UK referendum!0 -
I have absolutely no idea how you've squeezed that interpretation from what I've written.not_on_fire said:
Are you saying Parliament would have been unable to hold a vote on leaving the EU?david_herdson said:
To fill in the gaps that are not dealt with by direct democracy. Those gaps amount to more than 99.9% of government's and parliament's business.not_on_fire said:
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?david_herdson said:
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?not_on_fire said:
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliamentRobD said:
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.not_on_fire said:
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.David_Evershed said:Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
To be clear: parliament can take a view on Brexit if it wants to; it just doesn't need to. had the referendum not been held then that would have been the natural forum for debate. But a referendum was held.
On a related note, on more than one occasion, you've written of Britain's "democratically elected parliament", or other equivalent phrases. From where does parliament draw its authority?0 -
I dunno, I take the little 'un for a walk to a local park and another politician falls. Last week it was Boris whilst I was at a softplay.
How much damage has Farage caused by unresigning last year? The referendum was going to happen anyway, and the party's hardly been united since. If Woolf or Evans had taken over last year, they might have been in a much better position to take advantage of both the referendum and the aftermath.
P'haps.0 -
We shall grow the extra billions on a sovereignty tree, don't worry about it.rottenborough said:
Or she is just utterly deluded. Where will the billions for NHS come from, as our economy tanks?Paristonda said:
Sounds more like Leadsom is throwing her hat into the ring for UKIP leader.Scott_P said:@faisalislam: Leadsom: result is final, must be respected, and I will respect it. UK will leave EU, freedom of movement will end, billions more for NHS.
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It would be very amusing if the MPs chose Leadsom vs Fox for the run-off.TheScreamingEagles said:If the final two were Leadsom and Fox, I'd be voting Fox, that's how bad I think Andrea Leadsom is.
Tombstoners and triggering Article 50 on day 1 one of her Premiership says it all.0 -
What a strange way to attract votesJohnO said:
To be fair LuckyGuy is a kipper and long may he so remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
Hes gone! Hes gone! I blame JackW's ARSE for this.
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If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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James Cleverly MP endorses May - Tom Newton Dunn via Sky News.0
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As I've said to friends, there are 5 candidates she isn't even my 5th choice.TheScreamingEagles said:If the final two were Leadsom and Fox, I'd be voting Fox, that's how bad I think Andrea Leadsom is.
Tombstoners and triggering Article 50 on day 1 one of her Premiership says it all.
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If appealing to one voter puts off another 10 voters is it a good idea?blackburn63 said:
What a strange way to attract votesJohnO said:
To be fair LuckyGuy is a kipper and long may he so remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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He's gone! He's Gone! I blame JackW's ARSE for this. 0
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Yes, well, but:DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
... Yvette Cooper ... Corbyn, ... Ed Miliband ...0 -
One does get the impression he might be about to rejoin the Tories, or at least sit as an independent Conservative in Parliament.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: UKIP's only MP @DouglasCarswell says @ukip shd not be part of Brexit negotiations
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Hmmm :-o .Thrak said:
Not as good as Rightmove. These sites have been great in breaking the stranglehold of estate agents though, now one agent is as visible as another.David_Evershed said:Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
The Company was created in 2000 as a joint venture between four of the UK's largest property agents: Halifax, Countrywide plc, Royal & Sun Alliance, & Connells under the name Rightmove.co.uk Limited.
Rightmove makes money from listing estate agents on its website and offering additional advertising products to those agents. The ads are visible to users who search for the area chosen by the estate agent. Individuals selling property privately (i.e. directly without an agent) are prohibited from advertising on the site.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rightmove0 -
In office but not in power, hopelessly split and without a leader or a programme (just look at the last Queen's Speech) and seemingly bereft of ideas as to how to tackle the country's many problems. You think the Conservative Party is in a good situation?TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.
Oh, the membership has halved; now down to about 150,000, and they are going to choose our next PM, FFS.
If Labour had a sensible Leader the Conservative Party would be on the ropes and doomed.0 -
Not really. In order to win his, or your, vote the Tories would have to have policies which drive away votes like mine. Leadsom as leader taking us out of the single market and not taking action on the causes of immigration (hint; it's not free movement) would most certainly drive me to another party.blackburn63 said:
What a strange way to attract votesJohnO said:
To be fair LuckyGuy is a kipper and long may he so remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
Kiss of DeathAlastairMeeks said:0 -
I never noticed he was mixed race - he's much more urbane than Nuttal, the latter feels like a bruiser when he's been on QT.blackburn63 said:Hardly news Nigel standing down, I predicted it on here weeks ago, he's the most influential politician in decades, unbelievable that he's done that without being an MP. Having spent a bit of time with him he must be drained, I'm delighted he can step down having fulfilled 20 years of sheer graft.
Woolf is my choice, measured, sensible, in many ways the antithesis of Nigel's charismatic shoot from the hip approach. It shouldn't matter but his mixed race will help, as will his Moss Side upbringing. Fascinating to see where the party goes from here.0 -
Ah, so is Sir Nicholas SoamesJackW said:James Cleverly MP endorses May - Tom Newton Dunn via Sky News.
Nice to see them reconciled:
" James Cleverly, the newly elected Conservative MP for Braintree, approached Sir Nicholas Soames in a Commons dining room to say he agreed with his appeal for the party to unite after June's EU referendum and to hold off from personal attacks.
But in an astonishing response, Sir Nicholas reportedly told Mr Cleverly: 'F*** off you c***.
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If you're first statement is correct then your second cannot be.peter_from_putney said:Nigel - never fails to surprise. I feel sure we haven' t heard the last of him.
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The latest random criticism of Leadsom is that a friend of an MP's postman's dog's former owner claims she is a secret Southern Baptist. Dear God, the Remainers are in disarray.
Just be honest. Her side beat your side and you have sour grapes.0 -
Hypothetically yes, but deliberately telling people their votes aren't wanted is odd.Philip_Thompson said:
If appealing to one voter puts off another 10 voters is it a good idea?blackburn63 said:
What a strange way to attract votesJohnO said:
To be fair LuckyGuy is a kipper and long may he so remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
God even Crabb would be better than Cameron returning. If the Tories are looking back to a man who has spent the past 6 months humiliating himself then they're in a worse place than Labour. There are 2 or 3 candidates standing of an ability that Labour would kill to have, if I were a Tory member there is plenty of reason to be optimistic.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
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Crick Update :
May 113 .. Leadsom 32 .. Gove 31 .. Crabb 24 .. Fox ??0 -
Yes, Nuttall is good fun and smart but may lack a little gravitas, Woolf ticks every box for me.PlatoSaid said:
I never noticed he was mixed race - he's much more urbane than Nuttal, the latter feels like a bruiser when he's been on QT.blackburn63 said:Hardly news Nigel standing down, I predicted it on here weeks ago, he's the most influential politician in decades, unbelievable that he's done that without being an MP. Having spent a bit of time with him he must be drained, I'm delighted he can step down having fulfilled 20 years of sheer graft.
Woolf is my choice, measured, sensible, in many ways the antithesis of Nigel's charismatic shoot from the hip approach. It shouldn't matter but his mixed race will help, as will his Moss Side upbringing. Fascinating to see where the party goes from here.0 -
Soames seems like a man who wants to embody Theresa May's nasty party.JohnO said:
Ah, so is Sir Nicholas SoamesJackW said:James Cleverly MP endorses May - Tom Newton Dunn via Sky News.
Nice to see them reconciled:
" James Cleverly, the newly elected Conservative MP for Braintree, approached Sir Nicholas Soames in a Commons dining room to say he agreed with his appeal for the party to unite after June's EU referendum and to hold off from personal attacks.
But in an astonishing response, Sir Nicholas reportedly told Mr Cleverly: 'F*** off you c***.0 -
He will be sacked. The only question is when.Sandpit said:
One does get the impression he might be about to rejoin the Tories, or at least sit as an independent Conservative in Parliament.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: UKIP's only MP @DouglasCarswell says @ukip shd not be part of Brexit negotiations
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The odds are shorter on Boris Johnson being next Prime Minister than Liam Fox. Harsh.0
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There's another point to be made there:PlatoSaid said:Julia Hartley Brewer
Can someone in the LibDems please mount a leadership challenge against @timfarron. I'm worried that he's feeling a bit left out of the fun.
We might well end up with a female Conservative leader
We might end up with a female Labour leader (e.g. Eagles)
We might end up with a female UKIP leader (Evans / James)
We have a female Green leader
We have a female SNP leader
We have a female Scottish Conservative leader
We have a female Scottish Labour leader
We have a female PC leader
In which case Farron might end up with a rather odd USP - the only male leader of a major UK party!0 -
As a free marketeer I'm pro freedom of movement, but welfare systems around the world mean it needs controlling in some ways.MaxPB said:
Not really. In order to win his, or your, vote the Tories would have to have policies which drive away votes like mine. Leadsom as leader taking us out of the single market and not taking action on the causes of immigration (hint; it's not free movement) would most certainly drive me to another party.blackburn63 said:
What a strange way to attract votesJohnO said:
To be fair LuckyGuy is a kipper and long may he so remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
Well they just need to ensure that in round 1 Gove is ahead of Leadsom and then to give Crabb enough MPs to beat Leadsom.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
Let the love break out ..JohnO said:Ah, so is Sir Nicholas Soames
Nice to see them reconciled:
" James Cleverly, the newly elected Conservative MP for Braintree, approached Sir Nicholas Soames in a Commons dining room to say he agreed with his appeal for the party to unite after June's EU referendum and to hold off from personal attacks.
But in an astonishing response, Sir Nicholas reportedly told Mr Cleverly: 'F*** off you c***.
0 -
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 70
0 -
Does anyone else think it would be more fun if the results of the first ballot were not revealed? That is, all that would be known is who came last and therefore exited the race?0
-
He obviously shares his grandfather's skill at repartee.JohnO said:
Ah, so is Sir Nicholas SoamesJackW said:James Cleverly MP endorses May - Tom Newton Dunn via Sky News.
Nice to see them reconciled:
" James Cleverly, the newly elected Conservative MP for Braintree, approached Sir Nicholas Soames in a Commons dining room to say he agreed with his appeal for the party to unite after June's EU referendum and to hold off from personal attacks.
But in an astonishing response, Sir Nicholas reportedly told Mr Cleverly: 'F*** off you c***.0 -
What seemed an interesting Tory line-up a few days ago now looks like the usual line-up of (mostly) no-hopers and misfits.
Crabb sunk by his bizarre previous witterings about curing homosexuals, Leadsom demonstrating that she's another IDS - all the unelectability but with a louder voice, Gove the Tory Boy oddball who has now knifed "the People's PM" (but possibly did us all a favour frankly in doing so); Fox a failed third-rater and perennial leadership contest loser.
May will walk it for the simple reason she's none of the above. And because she's generally well-liked, vaguely competent, stayed out of the referendum crossfire of lies and scaremongering, and is generally, well, normal.
Though I suspect many millions of ordinary voters, when asked who they really want in charge up to 2020, would resoundingly say "David Cameron please".
I think I would, despite his failings and the annoyances he has regularly caused me...0 -
Surely easier to back Crabb into round 3 to ensure that the die hards don't all umite behind Leadsom.Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
And the LDs don't have a female MP to pick either. Perhaps they can find a transgender one and split the difference?JosiasJessop said:
There's another point to be made there:PlatoSaid said:Julia Hartley Brewer
Can someone in the LibDems please mount a leadership challenge against @timfarron. I'm worried that he's feeling a bit left out of the fun.
We might well end up with a female Conservative leader
We might end up with a female Labour leader (e.g. Eagles)
We might end up with a female UKIP leader (Evans / James)
We have a female Green leader
We have a female SNP leader
We have a female Scottish Conservative leader
We have a female Scottish Labour leader
We have a female PC leader
In which case Farron might end up with a rather odd USP - the only male leader of a major UK party!0 -
Nah, that's bollocks. A weak government is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for an opposition to win. The opposition also has to be up to the job. Otherwise the electorate will tend to cling on to nurse for (accurate) fear of worse. That was certainly the case in 1992 and 2005, and arguably so last year too.Luckyguy1983 said:
Oppositions don't win elections; Governments lose them. As any vaguely competent student of politics knows.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.0 -
Cameron could not even win a referendum with the four biggest parliamentary parties, big business, trade unions, the BBC, most of the broadsheets and the civil service on his side. His biggest political achievement is a majority of 12 against Ed Miliband.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
Nuttall on Sky now0
-
In almost all contests within the party at local levels e.g. council groups, candidate selections,l election of officers etc, the vote numbers are not released.tlg86 said:Does anyone else think it would be more fun if the results of the first ballot were not revealed? That is, all that would be known is who came last and therefore exited the race?
0 -
Other than he got the gig on a false prospectus and went against his party and the country to deliver the hugest political screw-up since someone ate an apple. Apart from that he's class.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
Why would Fox back May?Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
Yes, that's possible too, though less subtle. It would need to look like Leadsom had flunked something at that stage.MaxPB said:
Surely easier to back Crabb into round 3 to ensure that the die hards don't all umite behind Leadsom.Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
-
Which is why so many of us are shaking their heads at how he committed political suicide over the referendum.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
I think he would like to return to the Cabinet.Slackbladder said:
Why would Fox back May?Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
Mr. Sykes, you can always back the Patrick Party.0
-
Perhaps he wasn't very good at his job.Sandpit said:
Which is why so many of us are shaking their heads at how he committed political suicide over the referendum.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
0 -
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.0 -
I like Fox on the telly, but his Werrity screw up holes him below the water. Some fairly harmless portfolio for him.Tissue_Price said:
I think he would like to return to the Cabinet.Slackbladder said:
Why would Fox back May?Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
0
-
I had a "woosh" moment there - enlighten me...?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sykes, you can always back the Patrick Party.
0 -
"Little Englanders"Sandpit said:
Which is why so many of us are shaking their heads at how he committed political suicide over the referendum.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
His political epitaph in my book.0 -
Tissue_Price said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.
I'm not sure why May supporters need to vote tactically. She'll crush A N Other in the member ballot whoever the also run is.
0 -
Parliament is sovereign within the eu, simply because we are capable of leaving at any time. Our parliament willingly goes along with EU laws because they judge EU membership to be in the greater interest of the U.K., even if an individual law works against our interest.Disraeli said:
You seem to be a staunch supporter of Parliamentary sovereignty (as am I).rottenborough said:
Whether a referendum should trump Parliamentary sovereignty is neither here nor there. It doesn't and that was made clear when it was held as an advisory referendum. Now whether it is politically a good idea for MPs to overturn the wishes of the people is a separate question.Philip_Thompson said:
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.not_on_fire said:
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?david_herdson said:
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?not_on_fire said:
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliamentRobD said:
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.not_on_fire said:
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.David_Evershed said:Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
I can't remember which way everyone who posts on PB.com voted. However, I since remaining in the EU would have meant further erosion of this sovereignty, then you must be a Leaver. (or maybe you did not vote?)0 -
Well, he did give us the voteblackburn63 said:
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.
0 -
Yeah what was that all about - was the insinuation that he and Werrity were more than, erm, friends?PlatoSaid said:
I like Fox on the telly, but his Werrity screw up holes him below the water. Some fairly harmless portfolio for him.Tissue_Price said:
I think he would like to return to the Cabinet.Slackbladder said:
Why would Fox back May?Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
The natural choice of all stout fellows.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sykes, you can always back the Patrick Party.
0 -
Aren't the Greenies electing a new leader today? Lucas again?0
-
Aren't you forgetting the DUP there!JosiasJessop said:
There's another point to be made there:PlatoSaid said:Julia Hartley Brewer
Can someone in the LibDems please mount a leadership challenge against @timfarron. I'm worried that he's feeling a bit left out of the fun.
We might well end up with a female Conservative leader
We might end up with a female Labour leader (e.g. Eagles)
We might end up with a female UKIP leader (Evans / James)
We have a female Green leader
We have a female SNP leader
We have a female Scottish Conservative leader
We have a female Scottish Labour leader
We have a female PC leader
In which case Farron might end up with a rather odd USP - the only male leader of a major UK party!0 -
It has to be Nuttal for UKIP if they want to reach the Nothern Labour seats they need to be seen as a genuine alternative for wwc voters rather than just purple Tories.0
-
Quite. The Conservatives have an awfully long way to fall before they start losing votes to Corbyn's Labour Party at a General Election.david_herdson said:
Nah, that's bollocks. A weak government is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for an opposition to win. The opposition also has to be up to the job. Otherwise the electorate will tend to cling on to nurse for (accurate) fear of worse. That was certainly the case in 1992 and 2005, and arguably so last year too.Luckyguy1983 said:
Oppositions don't win elections; Governments lose them. As any vaguely competent student of politics knows.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you're talking bollocks on stilts.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.MaxPB said:
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.TheScreamingEagles said:What a bunch of losers. True Tombstoners
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
Remember where the Tory Party was when Dave took over. Fewer than 200 MPs.
Look at us now.
You must miss the Halycon days of IDS's leadership. That's when we were on the brink.
I'm not in favour of it, but if PM May calls a snap election it will probably end in either a 100 majority or with 50 UKIP MPs.0 -
Indeed.RobD said:
Aren't you forgetting the DUP there!JosiasJessop said:
There's another point to be made there:PlatoSaid said:Julia Hartley Brewer
Can someone in the LibDems please mount a leadership challenge against @timfarron. I'm worried that he's feeling a bit left out of the fun.
We might well end up with a female Conservative leader
We might end up with a female Labour leader (e.g. Eagles)
We might end up with a female UKIP leader (Evans / James)
We have a female Green leader
We have a female SNP leader
We have a female Scottish Conservative leader
We have a female Scottish Labour leader
We have a female PC leader
In which case Farron might end up with a rather odd USP - the only male leader of a major UK party! 0 -
Surely May will want to face Crabb in final show down?blackburn63 said:
Yeah what was that all about - was the insinuation that he and Werrity were more than, erm, friends?PlatoSaid said:
I like Fox on the telly, but his Werrity screw up holes him below the water. Some fairly harmless portfolio for him.Tissue_Price said:
I think he would like to return to the Cabinet.Slackbladder said:
Why would Fox back May?Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
You seem to forget his many accomplishments whilst in office such as, well, er ... gay marriage and ....blackburn63 said:
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.0 -
For which I'm eternally grateful. The deluded fool thought he could sell sand to the Arabs because he surrounded himself with nodding dogs.RobD said:
Well, he did give us the voteblackburn63 said:
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.0 -
I agree. The idea was proffered in the spirit of "you can't be too careful". As our friends from the red team are all too aware.JackW said:Tissue_Price said:That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.
I'm not sure why May supporters need to vote tactically. She'll crush A N Other in the member ballot whoever the also run is.0 -
How many Cornerstone Groupers voted Remain? Crabb must've been one of very few.0
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That seemed to be the nudge-winking. Fox handled the whole thing really badly and IIRC changed his explanation more than once.blackburn63 said:
Yeah what was that all about - was the insinuation that he and Werrity were more than, erm, friends?PlatoSaid said:
I like Fox on the telly, but his Werrity screw up holes him below the water. Some fairly harmless portfolio for him.Tissue_Price said:
I think he would like to return to the Cabinet.Slackbladder said:
Why would Fox back May?Tissue_Price said:
That's what spreadsheets are for.david_herdson said:
That would be the sensible tactical move but it's a delicate game. She'd need to boost Gove in the first round to avoid (1) it looking obvious as to what's going on, and (2) losing votes from round-to-round, which would make it look as if opinion was moving away from her.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Assuming 330 vote (might not be true)
Rnd 1
TM 145 (-30 tactical)
MG 65 (+30 tactical)
AL 55
SC 45
LF 20
Fox out, he backs May
Rnd 2
TM 150 (-35 tactical)
MG 71 (+35 tactical)
AL 63
SC 46
Crabb out, he backs May too
Rnd 3
TM 185 (-40 tactical, NB a comfortable majority)
MG 75 (+40 tactical)
AL 700 -
If Andrea Leadsom is the answer, you're asking the wrong fu*king question.0
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Quite. The man wouldn't stand head and shoulders over a bottle of Head and Shoulders.HurstLlama said:
You seem to forget his many accomplishments whilst in office such as, well, er ... gay marriage and ....blackburn63 said:
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.0 -
Mr. Sykes, some weeks ago PB collectively (presumably starting with Mr. Patrick, hence the name) come up with the idea of a party most of us would like, which was a pro-civil liberties but fiscally conservative party, amongst other things, entitled the Patrick Party.0
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That's harsh, he also achieved his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands.........HurstLlama said:
You seem to forget his many accomplishments whilst in office such as, well, er ... gay marriage and ....blackburn63 said:
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.0 -
Let history judge...his political career has certainly ended in spectacular failure, no point arguing against that. But will he be vindicated in the years ahead? I think he will.Patrick said:
Other than he got the gig on a false prospectus and went against his party and the country to deliver the hugest political screw-up since someone ate an apple. Apart from that he's class.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
In the meantime I cannot resist the schadenfreude of observing how those glorious victors of June 23rd, Gove, Johnson and now increasingly Leadsom have well and truly f***ed themselves in the space of a single week.
It's been commendably therapeutic: I am almost a semi-happy bunny again. Vote Theresa.0 -
And brought peace and prosperity to Libya.blackburn63 said:
That's harsh, he also achieved his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands.........HurstLlama said:
You seem to forget his many accomplishments whilst in office such as, well, er ... gay marriage and ....blackburn63 said:
I'm still surprised how many tories view Cameron. He couldn't beat Brown on his own, scraped through against Miliband (my word those two were dreadful) and committed the most ridiculous political suicide in history.JohnO said:
Delete seem, and Replace with is.logical_song said:
Cameron does seem head and shoulders above all of the candidates.DecrepitJohnL said:
If Theresa May cannot beat Leadsom, then maybe Cameron needs to do a Farage and un-resign.Tissue_Price said:
If they decide not to offer Leadsom to the membership, that will indicate that they have, in fact, learned their lesson well.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Have they learned nothing from Labour? Try to mess around and you my get a nasty surprise.Tissue_Price said:
That might be a provocation too far.TheScreamingEagles said:
Maybe May v Crabb.Tissue_Price said:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Apart from that he was outstanding.
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