@paulwaugh: Leadsom bigging up her FreshStartGroup. I recall 1 Euroscep Tory MP (now on her team) telling me it was part of No10/FCO plot to stay in EU
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Not as good as Rightmove. These sites have been great in breaking the stranglehold of estate agents though, now one agent is as visible as another.
Zoopla is partly owned by Daily Mail Trust and General who of course own the Daily Mail.Very strange .
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
Why bother having a referendum then, if the public's will didn't matter?
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
I see Angela Eagle is doing more talking about challenging Corbyn. havent they realised yet that JC is going nowhere and is confident of the support of the membership, so the challenge needs to be a real one, rather than just continually talking about it?
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Not as good as Rightmove. These sites have been great in breaking the stranglehold of estate agents though, now one agent is as visible as another.
Trouble is they take away advertising from local papers.
I see Angela Eagle is doing more talking about challenging Corbyn. havent they realised yet that JC is going nowhere and is confident of the support of the membership, so the challenge needs to be a real one, rather than just continually talking about it?
She wibbled outside her house this morning. It's like a spouse threatening to leave and never doing it. I'm bored. No spine. A common Labour issue.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
FT saying that Italy are going to defy the EU and bail out their banks rather than use the BRRD mechanisms. Will be interesting to see how the commission responds to them, on the one hand they are breaking, or will break, a new regulation designed to ensure banks aren't bailed out with taxpayer money, on the other they won't want to alienate Italy who are already facing populists plus the support they need from them to keep the Junker show on the road.
TUE 5 JUL AT 18:00, UNITED KINGDOM Post-Brexit alliance building with Caroline Lucas MP, Clive Lewis MP & more
Post-Brexit alliance building with Caroline Lucas MP (Green Party), Clive Lewis MP (Labour Party, Shadow Defense Secretary), John Harris (Journalist), Amina Gichinga (Take Back the City) Vince Cable (Lib Dems) & more TBC.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
Philip Hammond, our Keep Calm foreign secretary, has just been on Radio 4 explaining the need for compromise between EU market access and “free movement” (ie immigration) to the dismay of Planet Tooth Fairy. “Legislate to leave by Christmas,” say Tooth Fairy Tory MPs who don’t get out much.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Not as good as Rightmove. These sites have been great in breaking the stranglehold of estate agents though, now one agent is as visible as another.
Trouble is they take away advertising from local papers.
Newspapers? How twentieth century. Actually, breaking the dead tree press and the power of press barons is one of my longheld wishes, it's only a matter of time.
To join the Conservative party under Andrea Leadsom's leadership?
Don't say that. That's a truly depressing thought.
Should be remembered Farage vowed to destroy the Tory party a few years ago.
Don't worry with Farage gone UKIP are perfectly positioned to do an SNP to Labour in the Midlands and the North...
Hmmm. Not sure how that works to be honest. Without us being in the EU what does UKIP stand for? It could shift sharply left on economics, while remaining socially conservative and even more anti-immigration, but which leadership candidate could do that credibly? If immigration does fall now, the anti-immigration rhetoric will need to get ever louder to be heard. Should that happen it would be tricky to keep UKIP in the mainstream.
Mr. Observer, there are a lot of people who the main parties seem to want to ignore and who are unrepresented at local and national level. That is a gap in the market that UKIP could fill. They would need to change their focus but now their original purpose has been achieved they have to do that or die.
I would like them, or if not them then someone, to become the voice of the working poor, the council estate dwellers, those left behind, the people that Labour have forgotten and the Conservatives don't give a big rat's arse for. However, as someone has said up-thread, money will probably be the death of UKIP.
There is a very big gap in the market. But I am not sure UKIP has the leaders or members with the political inclinations to fill it. Nuttall has a Scouse accent, but has advocated abolishing the NHS. In Labour heartland constituencies one of those things is going to be a lot more important than the other.
I don't know that it has the will either, but it probably is the best hope for that party and the people at the bottom.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
Parliament could respect the referendum and still disagree with the proposed timing for issuing notice under Article 50. They're two different things (there are plenty of confirmed Leavers who think it foolish to trigger Article 50 immediately).
There's a very respectable argument to be had on the legal point and it's being backed by some serious QCs. The question revolves around the extent of royal prerogative if it interferes with the operation of an Act of Parliament.
It seems entirely reasonable to explore the point and far from being "against the people and democracy", it's an argument about how that democracy is to be expressed in a Parliamentary system.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
On a completely different note, I have been travelling on business for the last few weeks and the computer I had (Apple) and the lack of broadband meant my only fix of politics was a few minutes a day from this wonderful site. I couldn't comment (computer said no). Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room, no contact with the outside world except PB.com. I just got connected as the Sunderland result came in. The word...'BOOM' was uttered by one of you. As a Leaver, I was almost in tears. Thank you, PB, thank you Mike and TSE and the team, thank you commenters, you have made me very happy. (Will donate, promise).
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
An interesting point to raise before a referendum is held.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.
On a completely different note, I have been travelling on business for the last few weeks and the computer I had (Apple) and the lack of broadband meant my only fix of politics was a few minutes a day from this wonderful site. I couldn't comment (computer said no). Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room, no contact with the outside world except PB.com. I just got connected as the Sunderland result came in. The word...'BOOM' was uttered by one of you. As a Leaver, I was almost in tears. Thank you, PB, thank you Mike and TSE and the team, thank you commenters, you have made me very happy. (Will donate, promise).
Welcome DaveDave
Thank you. I am old, under a different name but my computer won't let me in under that. I've only been lurking for passed year or so.
Mr. Pulpstar, that is interesting. A cynical man might say it's a collection of metropolitan dinner party specialists seeking to subvert the will of the people.
Not much downside for Lucas, but if Labour follow Lammy's siren call I fear they'll be dashed upon electoral rocks whilst the vultures of UKIP pick over the party's collective carcass.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
Stewart Jackson .... so Leadsom drew the short straw. Heart of stone ....
what do you call a collective of these.. a ukip of mps?
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorriesMP · 11m11 minutes ago Someone just walked in the room, listened to Andrea on the TV and said, 'wow, she's so likeable' #votewinner #AndreaLeadsom4Leader
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes · 12m12 minutes ago Also at Leadsom launch: Bill Cash, MIP running event, John Redwood, Andy Wigmore
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
Blimey, and you lived to tell the tale! I imagine you have some great stories to tell.
I was with a big corporate and they were absolutely panicked about my security, which meant I hardly saw anything except the hotel room, office and bar. All quite dull. But when away, it makes results like the referendum all the sweeter.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.
Whether a referendum should trump Parliamentary sovereignty is neither here nor there. It doesn't and that was made clear when it was held as an advisory referendum. Now whether it is politically a good idea for MPs to overturn the wishes of the people is a separate question.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
Stewart Jackson .... so Leadsom drew the short straw. Heart of stone ....
what do you call a collective of these.. a ukip of mps?
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorriesMP · 11m11 minutes ago Someone just walked in the room, listened to Andrea on the TV and said, 'wow, she's so likeable' #votewinner #AndreaLeadsom4Leader
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes · 12m12 minutes ago Also at Leadsom launch: Bill Cash, MIP running event, John Redwood, Andy Wigmore
Looks like the "original" UKIP forces are lining up behind Leadsome.
FT saying that Italy are going to defy the EU and bail out their banks rather than use the BRRD mechanisms. Will be interesting to see how the commission responds to them, on the one hand they are breaking, or will break, a new regulation designed to ensure banks aren't bailed out with taxpayer money, on the other they won't want to alienate Italy who are already facing populists plus the support they need from them to keep the Junker show on the road.
It's interesting: everyone thinks that bad banks only happened in Spain, Ireland, and other PIIGS countries. (Oh yes, and the UK.)
But the biggest bad bank of all is in Germany which holds the assets of the former WestLB and Hypo Real, and which must have been close to half a trillion dollars at peak.
I therefore have a lot of sympathy with the Italian government, who (presumably) is saying: you, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Irish and the like all did your bad banks, and now you've changed the rules to say we can't. Especially as the sums involved are going to be far smaller than those involved in Spain or Germany.
Mr. Pulpstar, that is interesting. A cynical man might say it's a collection of metropolitan dinner party specialists seeking to subvert the will of the people.
Not much downside for Lucas, but if Labour follow Lammy's siren call I fear they'll be dashed upon electoral rocks whilst the vultures of UKIP pick over the party's collective carcass.
My main point was to point out Clive Lewis is there representing Labour. Once Eagle is trounced will the PLP and Corbyn reach an agreement whereby he takes over ? Labour is in opposition so can afford to take a risk on someone reasonably inexperienced.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.
Whether a referendum should trump Parliamentary sovereignty is neither here nor there. It doesn't and that was made clear when it was held as an advisory referendum. Now whether it is politically a good idea for MPs to overturn the wishes of the people is a separate question.
But likewise the triggering of Article 50 is on royal prerogative and doesn't require a PM to get a vote in parliament first either. If the incoming PM decides to invoke Article 50 without a vote then that is morally and legally absolutely fine. And popular too as it will end all this bullshit will-we-won't-we.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
That doesn't sound fun. I spent three years with a company who had offices in Nigeria, Angola and Saudia Arabia. My biggest achievement while there was to manage the systems in those offices without ever having to visit any of them!
FT saying that Italy are going to defy the EU and bail out their banks rather than use the BRRD mechanisms. Will be interesting to see how the commission responds to them, on the one hand they are breaking, or will break, a new regulation designed to ensure banks aren't bailed out with taxpayer money, on the other they won't want to alienate Italy who are already facing populists plus the support they need from them to keep the Junker show on the road.
It's interesting: everyone thinks that bad banks only happened in Spain, Ireland, and other PIIGS countries. (Oh yes, and the UK.)
But the biggest bad bank of all is in Germany which holds the assets of the former WestLB and Hypo Real, and which must have been close to half a trillion dollars at peak.
I therefore have a lot of sympathy with the Italian government, who (presumably) is saying: you, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Irish and the like all did your bad banks, and now you've changed the rules to say we can't. Especially as the sums involved are going to be far smaller than those involved in Spain or Germany.
Yes, the irony wasn't lost on me once the Germans started lecturing everyone on best practice. I think every time thw Germans start hectoring at anyone the stock reply should be "Deutsch Bank".
I heard the land registry was being privatised. What possible element of competition can there be in that area ?!
Snuck out like a curled up turd amongst the chaos.
Selling the family silver. There would be legitimate worries about security, I'd have thought.
They wanted to do this in the 80s when I worked there - resiled from it on grounds it was a stupid idea - even worse now it's an open register where pricing information is included - HM Land Registry as it was in 1925 secures titles and provides a state guarantee - it's an infrastructure function that should have no place as a private sector operation - it has always been self0funding and usually sends a surplus to the Treasury - stupid stupid stupid idea tp hive it off
As a thought experiment, would some of our EEA Leavers care to comment on whether they would still be happy with the way things were going if Andrea Leadsom becomes the next Prime Minister?
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
It's at times like these that I'm happy we have sane rules on leadership election. No entryism and the MPs get most of the say. If we had the £3 rule I could imagine Arron Banks getting loads of people to sign up to vote for Leadsom despite never having voted for the Conservatives.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
Blimey, and you lived to tell the tale! I imagine you have some great stories to tell.
I was with a big corporate and they were absolutely panicked about my security, which meant I hardly saw anything except the hotel room, office and bar. All quite dull. But when away, it makes results like the referendum all the sweeter.
I had a similar thing once when I got invited into Cambodia on short notice to meet the President (well, one of the two they had at the time!) not too long after the Khmer Rouge had been beaten. The full Board of a FTSE 100 company had a bit of a meltdown because they couldn't get any kidnap insurance for me. I don't think I was even supposed to go to the bar!
Mr. Pulpstar, that is interesting. A cynical man might say it's a collection of metropolitan dinner party specialists seeking to subvert the will of the people.
Not much downside for Lucas, but if Labour follow Lammy's siren call I fear they'll be dashed upon electoral rocks whilst the vultures of UKIP pick over the party's collective carcass.
My main point was to point out Clive Lewis is there representing Labour. Once Eagle is trounced will the PLP and Corbyn reach an agreement whereby he takes over ? Labour is in opposition so can afford to take a risk on someone reasonably inexperienced.
I fail to understand how replacing Corbyn with Lewis helps. He's just a younger, shouty, hard-left bloke who seems overly keen on -isms.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
That doesn't sound fun. I spent three years with a company who had offices in Nigeria, Angola and Saudia Arabia. My biggest achievement while there was to manage the systems in those offices without ever having to visit any of them!
I have lived and worked in Angola and Nigeria. I'm guessing you must be in the energy industry?
As a thought experiment, would some of our EEA Leavers care to comment on whether they would still be happy with the way things were going if Andrea Leadsom becomes the next Prime Minister?
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
The other reason is to stop Leadsom pushing the button immediately, before parliament has had a chance to vote on the negotiating stance chosen by Tory members.
Did Leavers vote for the sovereignty of parliament or the sovereignty of Tory members?
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
Parliament could respect the referendum and still disagree with the proposed timing for issuing notice under Article 50. They're two different things (there are plenty of confirmed Leavers who think it foolish to trigger Article 50 immediately).
There's a very respectable argument to be had on the legal point and it's being backed by some serious QCs. The question revolves around the extent of royal prerogative if it interferes with the operation of an Act of Parliament.
It seems entirely reasonable to explore the point and far from being "against the people and democracy", it's an argument about how that democracy is to be expressed in a Parliamentary system.
Hmm. I don't really buy any of that, though clarifying the scope of the royal prerogative may come in handy.
Parliament has already agreed to a potential Brexit, firstly when it ratified Lisbon, which was what introduced Article 50; and much more relevantly, in the bill that set up the referendum. When it legislated for the referendum, both the inference in the text and the speeches made at the time were clear that a Leave would be a mandate for exiting the Union. A decision implementing the expressed outcome of that referendum could therefore not be in conflict with the European Communities Act and other UK legislation re the EU.
I agree that parliament could disagree with the government's plans re Brexit but that would be for both bodies to sort out between them; it doesn't give parliament a specific veto over the triggering of A50 unless it acts proactively in the matter. The government's authority is already implicit from the European Union Referendum Act 2015.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
To fill in the gaps that are not dealt with by direct democracy. Those gaps amount to more than 99.9% of government's and parliament's business.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
Blimey, and you lived to tell the tale! I imagine you have some great stories to tell.
I was with a big corporate and they were absolutely panicked about my security, which meant I hardly saw anything except the hotel room, office and bar. All quite dull. But when away, it makes results like the referendum all the sweeter.
I had a similar thing once when I got invited into Cambodia on short notice to meet the President (well, one of the two they had at the time!) not too long after the Khmer Rouge had been beaten. The full Board of a FTSE 100 company had a bit of a meltdown because they couldn't get any kidnap insurance for me. I don't think I was even supposed to go to the bar!
There is a history of business people being murdered down the ages so probably wise.
Philip Collins @PCollinsTimes · 29m29 minutes ago Any MP helping to make Andrea Leadsom PM is ridiculous. I'm not being rude about a talented candidate but she's nowhere close to ready.
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorriesMP · 6m6 minutes ago Without doubt, #AndreaLeadsom4Leader launch was the sunniest, most positive and hopeful of the lot.
John Redwood @johnredwood · 55s56 seconds ago #VictoriaLive: @andrealeadsom is the most experienced of the 5 candidates when it comes to understanding Brussels 2/3 #Andrea4PM
As of today, I am prepared to support Theresa May, not least because it is important to stop Michael Gove, a politician of questionable morals and without strong principles. His actions are a huge disappointment to me and a real shame for the party.
A Stop Leadsom operation will be up and running no doubt by now. It looks awfully like May vs Leadsom to me unless there is some dirty tricks on the nominations.
To join the Conservative party under Andrea Leadsom's leadership?
Don't say that. That's a truly depressing thought.
Should be remembered Farage vowed to destroy the Tory party a few years ago.
Don't worry with Farage gone UKIP are perfectly positioned to do an SNP to Labour in the Midlands and the North...
Hmmm. Not sure how that works to be honest. Without us being in the EU what does UKIP stand for? It could shift sharply left on economics, while remaining socially conservative and even more anti-immigration, but which leadership candidate could do that credibly? If immigration does fall now, the anti-immigration rhetoric will need to get ever louder to be heard. Should that happen it would be tricky to keep UKIP in the mainstream.
Mr. Observer, there are a lot of people who the main parties seem to want to ignore and who are unrepresented at local and national level. That is a gap in the market that UKIP could fill. They would need to change their focus but now their original purpose has been achieved they have to do that or die.
I would like them, or if not them then someone, to become the voice of the working poor, the council estate dwellers, those left behind, the people that Labour have forgotten and the Conservatives don't give a big rat's arse for. However, as someone has said up-thread, money will probably be the death of UKIP.
There is a very big gap in the market. But I am not sure UKIP has the leaders or members with the political inclinations to fill it. Nuttall has a Scouse accent, but has advocated abolishing the NHS. In Labour heartland constituencies one of those things is going to be a lot more important than the other.
I think UKIP has an obvious post-Brexit position... not one I like, but one that will get them votes. They cast themselves as protectors of the Leave vote, rail against all suggestions that Article 50 gets postponed or leaving is otherwise delayed, campaign against Brexit-lite arrangements like EEA membership where freedom of movement is retained.
As the Leave promises crumble, UKIP claim the voters have been betrayed once again by the Westminster elite and the only way to truly deliver on Brexit and a post-Brexit utopia is to vote UKIP.
Do that and I think they can get 50% of the Leave vote, which would be double their 2015 vote. Which I would find deeply depressing, but it seems an obvious strategy for them to take.
This wouldn't work if the Tories adopt a hardline post-Brexit position by choosing Leadsom, but that seems unlikely at present. If Leadsom wins, then UKIP can just merge into the Conservatives.
By the way, not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Suzanne Evans is currently ineligible to stand for leader of UKIP as she is officially suspended by the party.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.
Whether a referendum should trump Parliamentary sovereignty is neither here nor there. It doesn't and that was made clear when it was held as an advisory referendum. Now whether it is politically a good idea for MPs to overturn the wishes of the people is a separate question.
You seem to be a staunch supporter of Parliamentary sovereignty (as am I).
I can't remember which way everyone who posts on PB.com voted. However, I since remaining in the EU would have meant further erosion of this sovereignty, then you must be a Leaver. (or maybe you did not vote?)
Mr. Pulpstar, that is interesting. A cynical man might say it's a collection of metropolitan dinner party specialists seeking to subvert the will of the people.
Not much downside for Lucas, but if Labour follow Lammy's siren call I fear they'll be dashed upon electoral rocks whilst the vultures of UKIP pick over the party's collective carcass.
My main point was to point out Clive Lewis is there representing Labour. Once Eagle is trounced will the PLP and Corbyn reach an agreement whereby he takes over ? Labour is in opposition so can afford to take a risk on someone reasonably inexperienced.
I don't think he's representing Labour exactly, or at least not the current leadership; He's been advocating a second referendum [*], which contradicts Corbyn's line that they should trigger Article 50 immediately.
*I'm not sure if the question is his proposed referendum would be the same again, or if it would be changed to, "If I asked you if you wanted to stay in the EU, would your answer be the same as the answer to this question?"
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
That doesn't sound fun. I spent three years with a company who had offices in Nigeria, Angola and Saudia Arabia. My biggest achievement while there was to manage the systems in those offices without ever having to visit any of them!
I have lived and worked in Angola and Nigeria. I'm guessing you must be in the energy industry?
Not energy. This was a property company, selling investments mainly to those who wanted to get their money somewhere their own government couldn't get to it - very popular with Africans and Russians in recent years for some reason!
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.
I heard the land registry was being privatised. What possible element of competition can there be in that area ?!
Snuck out like a curled up turd amongst the chaos.
Selling the family silver. There would be legitimate worries about security, I'd have thought.
They wanted to do this in the 80s when I worked there - resiled from it on grounds it was a stupid idea - even worse now it's an open register where pricing information is included - HM Land Registry as it was in 1925 secures titles and provides a state guarantee - it's an infrastructure function that should have no place as a private sector operation - it has always been self0funding and usually sends a surplus to the Treasury - stupid stupid stupid idea tp hive it off
Of course it is a very stupid idea. The Land Registry has a vital legal function, ownership of property is the very basis of the economy and keeping the records cannot be left in the hands of Serco or some other cowboy outfit. Osborne is a fool, an incompetent fool at that. One hope that the new PM will remove him from any office ASAP.
There was a rather nice line in Dominic Lawson's STimes piece about those agitating to overturn the EU ref result.
To paraphase "Some Leavers were concerned their ballot would be changed, who thought many in the media/Establishment would want to rub their whole vote out?"
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
They played a reasonable amount of her pitch on LBC. She sounded calm, rational and in many ways quite progressive. If suggesting that more city types needed to go to jail and get less pay would destroy the Tories, it rather demonstrates that they're in as much trouble as Labour.
By the way, not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Suzanne Evans is currently ineligible to stand for leader of UKIP as she is officially suspended by the party.
Are there many non-suspended members? Perhaps this is Farage's plan: he'll be the only possible candidate for leader, and therefore will "regretfully" have to reascend.
By the way, not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Suzanne Evans is currently ineligible to stand for leader of UKIP as she is officially suspended by the party.
Really? Does it have a time limit / will it be lifted now Farage is standing down?
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
Blimey, and you lived to tell the tale! I imagine you have some great stories to tell.
I was with a big corporate and they were absolutely panicked about my security, which meant I hardly saw anything except the hotel room, office and bar. All quite dull. But when away, it makes results like the referendum all the sweeter.
Working for French company many years ago in some very dodgy African and South American places a group of us found out the Company had taken out Kidnap Insurance on us at the same time as denying us the available extra pay for working in a dangerous location.
A fair few of us decided not to go back and do our next rotation after we found that out.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
We didn't overrule it. We only had a referendum because our democratically elected Parliament chose to have a referendum.
Whether a referendum should trump Parliamentary sovereignty is neither here nor there. It doesn't and that was made clear when it was held as an advisory referendum. Now whether it is politically a good idea for MPs to overturn the wishes of the people is a separate question.
You seem to be a staunch supporter of Parliamentary sovereignty (as am I).
I can't remember which way everyone who posts on PB.com voted. However, I since remaining in the EU would have meant further erosion of this sovereignty, then you must be a Leaver. (or maybe you did not vote?)
No, Remainer. Sorry to disappoint. I just want the whole thing to be played by the rules.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
By the way, not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Suzanne Evans is currently ineligible to stand for leader of UKIP as she is officially suspended by the party.
Are there many non-suspended members? Perhaps this is Farage's plan: he'll be the only possible candidate for leader, and therefore will "regretfully" have to reascend.
Has the Land Registry actually been sold off, or is it just a proposal?
I'm failing to see any reason why it should be sold. I can appreciate mistakes and political misjudgement, but this does appear to be the political equivalent of shoving one's todger in a vacuum cleaner.
Pre-Chilcot documentary on Channel 5 tonight (8pm) The Blair Rich Project.
Ouch at the title! It's going be open season on Blair once Chilcot is published, no matter what he says or doesn't about the former PM.
I imagine the Blair Rich Project (c5 8pm) is mainly about our beloved former Prime Minister's business empire and may have been brought forward in light of Chilcot.
On Chilcot, I do not suppose Tony Blair will lose much sleep, even without the customary bucket of whitewash in these reports. Even if it does condemn the dodgy dossier as a cynical lie rather than just misleadingly spun, Blair will presumably shrug it off as the ends justifying the means, because from all of his public statements, Blair still genuinely believes he was right to topple Saddam -- and it is probably beyond Chilcot's remit to challenge that view.
Guido pointing out that the Zoopla on line estate agent is one of the companies behind the attempt to frustrate Brexit by seeking any triggering of Article 50 has to be voted on by MPs - and presumably opposed by the Remainers.
Zoopla against the people and democracy. Not a great business idea.
Anti-democratic? Surely it's Taking Back Control for our sovereign Parliament.
The only reason they are doing this is in the hopes that MP would vote against article 50 being invoked. That is pretty anti-democratic since there was just a vote on whether we should leave or not.
Only if you believe an advisory referendum trumps our 800 year old, democratically elected parliament
It should. What's the point of a referendum otherwise?
What's the point of representative democracy if we overrule it with referendums?
To fill in the gaps that are not dealt with by direct democracy. Those gaps amount to more than 99.9% of government's and parliament's business.
Are you saying Parliament would have been unable to hold a vote on leaving the EU?
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
Hmm, I just got a message saying that Leadsom is a God botherer which might explain why the Tombstone lot are falling in line behind her.
Stewart Jackson and The Tombstone Group are backing her.
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
On the contrary, the problem with the Tory Party is that instinct flows one way, and power and patronage have flowed the other way since Thatch.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Parliamentary Party decide to offer the members the choice of May vs Gove, just in case. Theresa must have MPs to spare.
Anyway, I followed the site on referendum night. Alone in a crazy country, with a bodyguard outside the room....
Scotland?
Ha! Very good. A smorgasbord of places included deepest Africa and Germany. I actually was in Germany for a few hours as the result was announced. I had the only smile in the rom of about 30 locals.
I've done some deepest Africa myself - Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Gabon...Somalia...Algeria during their civil war.... A good place for dinner party stories.
Blimey, and you lived to tell the tale! I imagine you have some great stories to tell.
I was with a big corporate and they were absolutely panicked about my security, which meant I hardly saw anything except the hotel room, office and bar. All quite dull. But when away, it makes results like the referendum all the sweeter.
Working for French company many years ago in some very dodgy African and South American places a group of us found out the Company had taken out Kidnap Insurance on us at the same time as denying us the available extra pay for working in a dangerous location.
A fair few of us decided not to go back and do our next rotation after we found that out.
Comments
@SamCoatesTimes: Leadsom launch: also Stuart Jackson, Owen Paterson, James Morris
Snuck out like a curled up turd amongst the chaos.
I'm mightily disappointed. A very sub-Govian performance - concise, witty and without a shred of Fergie-time in sight. Bad form ....
Post-Brexit alliance building with Caroline Lucas MP, Clive Lewis MP & more
Post-Brexit alliance building with Caroline Lucas MP (Green Party), Clive Lewis MP (Labour Party, Shadow Defense Secretary), John Harris (Journalist), Amina Gichinga (Take Back the City) Vince Cable (Lib Dems) & more TBC.
Philip Hammond, our Keep Calm foreign secretary, has just been on Radio 4 explaining the need for compromise between EU market access and “free movement” (ie immigration) to the dismay of Planet Tooth Fairy. “Legislate to leave by Christmas,” say Tooth Fairy Tory MPs who don’t get out much.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/may-v-leadsom-we-just-need-someone-lead-out-of-this-mess-tories
There's a very respectable argument to be had on the legal point and it's being backed by some serious QCs. The question revolves around the extent of royal prerogative if it interferes with the operation of an Act of Parliament.
It seems entirely reasonable to explore the point and far from being "against the people and democracy", it's an argument about how that democracy is to be expressed in a Parliamentary system.
At first sight I assumed that the news of this newspaper was a Daily Mash article. Amazing
Not much downside for Lucas, but if Labour follow Lammy's siren call I fear they'll be dashed upon electoral rocks whilst the vultures of UKIP pick over the party's collective carcass.
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorriesMP · 11m11 minutes ago
Someone just walked in the room, listened to Andrea on the TV and said, 'wow, she's so likeable' #votewinner #AndreaLeadsom4Leader
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes · 12m12 minutes ago
Also at Leadsom launch: Bill Cash, MIP running event, John Redwood, Andy Wigmore
Blimey, and you lived to tell the tale! I imagine you have some great stories to tell.
I was with a big corporate and they were absolutely panicked about my security, which meant I hardly saw anything except the hotel room, office and bar. All quite dull. But when away, it makes results like the referendum all the sweeter.
But the biggest bad bank of all is in Germany which holds the assets of the former WestLB and Hypo Real, and which must have been close to half a trillion dollars at peak.
I therefore have a lot of sympathy with the Italian government, who (presumably) is saying: you, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Irish and the like all did your bad banks, and now you've changed the rules to say we can't. Especially as the sums involved are going to be far smaller than those involved in Spain or Germany.
If you want the Tory Party destroyed, then Andrea Leadsom is your candidate.
Labour is in opposition so can afford to take a risk on someone reasonably inexperienced.
You're on the wrong side of history.
Did Leavers vote for the sovereignty of parliament or the sovereignty of Tory members?
Parliament has already agreed to a potential Brexit, firstly when it ratified Lisbon, which was what introduced Article 50; and much more relevantly, in the bill that set up the referendum. When it legislated for the referendum, both the inference in the text and the speeches made at the time were clear that a Leave would be a mandate for exiting the Union. A decision implementing the expressed outcome of that referendum could therefore not be in conflict with the European Communities Act and other UK legislation re the EU.
I agree that parliament could disagree with the government's plans re Brexit but that would be for both bodies to sort out between them; it doesn't give parliament a specific veto over the triggering of A50 unless it acts proactively in the matter. The government's authority is already implicit from the European Union Referendum Act 2015.
Philip Collins @PCollinsTimes · 29m29 minutes ago
Any MP helping to make Andrea Leadsom PM is ridiculous. I'm not being rude about a talented candidate but she's nowhere close to ready.
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorriesMP · 6m6 minutes ago
Without doubt, #AndreaLeadsom4Leader launch was the sunniest, most positive and hopeful of the lot.
John Redwood @johnredwood · 55s56 seconds ago
#VictoriaLive: @andrealeadsom is the most experienced of the 5 candidates when it comes to understanding Brussels 2/3 #Andrea4PM
As of today, I am prepared to support Theresa May, not least because it is important to stop Michael Gove, a politician of questionable morals and without strong principles. His actions are a huge disappointment to me and a real shame for the party.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/04/under-theresa-may-the-tories-can-put-national-unity-first-and-sa/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Morning, Ma'am.
As the Leave promises crumble, UKIP claim the voters have been betrayed once again by the Westminster elite and the only way to truly deliver on Brexit and a post-Brexit utopia is to vote UKIP.
Do that and I think they can get 50% of the Leave vote, which would be double their 2015 vote. Which I would find deeply depressing, but it seems an obvious strategy for them to take.
This wouldn't work if the Tories adopt a hardline post-Brexit position by choosing Leadsom, but that seems unlikely at present. If Leadsom wins, then UKIP can just merge into the Conservatives.
I can't remember which way everyone who posts on PB.com voted. However, I since remaining in the EU would have meant further erosion of this sovereignty, then you must be a Leaver. (or maybe you did not vote?)
*I'm not sure if the question is his proposed referendum would be the same again, or if it would be changed to, "If I asked you if you wanted to stay in the EU, would your answer be the same as the answer to this question?"
To paraphase "Some Leavers were concerned their ballot would be changed, who thought many in the media/Establishment would want to rub their whole vote out?"
A fair few of us decided not to go back and do our next rotation after we found that out.
https://twitter.com/rosschawkins/status/749913170370764800
I'm failing to see any reason why it should be sold. I can appreciate mistakes and political misjudgement, but this does appear to be the political equivalent of shoving one's todger in a vacuum cleaner.
On Chilcot, I do not suppose Tony Blair will lose much sleep, even without the customary bucket of whitewash in these reports. Even if it does condemn the dodgy dossier as a cynical lie rather than just misleadingly spun, Blair will presumably shrug it off as the ends justifying the means, because from all of his public statements, Blair still genuinely believes he was right to topple Saddam -- and it is probably beyond Chilcot's remit to challenge that view.
When they get a leader who is sensible, credible, and aligned with the wider party, it will be the saving of the Tory party. It's Cameron and his backers that have brought it to the brink.