Appalling racist attacks on British People, officials and even MEPs on the streets and bars of Brussels, Eurostar and even in EU and EU parliament buldings.
Apparently this has been going on at a low level for years but has got far worse in the last week.
Funnily enough I dont see SJWs foaming all over social media about it though.
Racist? How can Europeans be racist towards other Europeans?
The article mentions "racist" once - here (And it is a quote from Nigel Farage)
The Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, added: ‘There’s some pretty nasty stuff going on. 'The general narrative at home is about racist abuse on the streets of Britain, but some of the stuff we’re seeing from Brussels Eurocrats is horrific.’
No mention of it in the article, and though this is unpleasant it is not 'racism'.
But, as I keep saying, this is not inevitable. The fecking Tories have to admit all this, and go for EEA immediately, and stop the madness. Confidence will return, and quickly, if investors, homebuyers, bankers, know that not much will change, at least at first, as we keep all our economic ties with the EU.
I am interested in how you feel joining the EEA will stop the slowing economies of our post-Brexit neighbours. Or why you feel there will be a drop in inward investment in the medium term given the number of commonwealth and other countries lining up over the last couple of days to make trade agreements with us. But mostly I am interested in why you think this will cause a larger drop in GDP than the entire Subprime Crisis and Lehman's crash ?
Because it is a unique combination of headwinds that we are facing. Falling confidence, political instability, property price crash, wobbly banks, recessiony neighbours, our main industry (fin services) potentially crippled, more turbulence in Scotland + Ulster, on and on and on.
We put a bomb under the economy and set it off. WHY DIDN'T ANYONE WARN US OF THIS???
grrrr. I'M TOTALLY HACKED OFF THAT NO ONE WARNED ME THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
Now if people will just listen to ME, I have the solution, a very quick move to EEA, sidestep the storm almost entirely. The Europeans will want this (whatever the Commission says), we want it, America wants, China wants, we all want stability as soon as possible. So just bloody do it.
We'll have to talk about Free Movement later, once we're in the EEA. As I said, immigration is going to plummet anyway, for the next two years or more.
That's a joke right - no-one warned you!
I think Sean might be almost unique on PB in that he has managed to earn the contempt of both sides of the argument.
I find it useful - makes me feel practically solid and unyielding.
Given that the EU must now realise that Article 50 leaves them open to being held hostage by any members state at any time, we have now created an urgent need to reform the Lisbon Treaty itself. Why not take advantage of it to secure terms on which we could stay full members?
Sarkozy is peddling the new treaty line. Can't remember where I saw it. Something around five years before foreign workers would be eligible for benefits. I'll see if I can dig it up again.
The only mechanism that would make me change my mind would be a new treaty that formally enshrines a two bloc Europe. But that's not going to happen, so Brexit it is.
Is there any reason now why Douglas Carswell couldn't return to the Conservatives fairly soon? He left largely because of his dislike of David Cameron, but he's no longer going to be relevant in a couple of months' time. The other reason, leaving the EU, is something that all leadership candidates are working towards and Douglas Carswell isn't conspicuously anti-immigration so he should be able to toe whatever party line the Conservatives come up with.
Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt announces complete ban on prescription sleeping pills as the NHS will now put Michael Gove's launch speech on-line .... once he's finished next Tuesday week ....
Has he said anything about falconer resigning yet?
I am watching occasional Wimbledon coverage on BBC World News, and notice that the correspondent, somebody Watson (?) wears a mike that looks like a fly fishing lure on alternate lapels every day. The main feature seems to be the always threatening clouds behind him and how everyone looks cold and miserable.
I remember the days in the early 70s when I would pay my 50p during the first week and wander round all the outside courts.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
A poll today in the Standard says a sizeable chunk of Leave voters have changed their mind, and that Remain would win a comfortable majority were the referendum rerun. Make of that what you will.
That poll is irrelevant now, but similar polling may not be irrelevant in the future. If we're in deep recession by Xmas, and polling shows REMAIN 65/LEAVE 35, and we still haven't triggered A50 (and May and Gove say they won't trigger til 2017) - then it's very hard to guess whether PM May WOULD squeeze the trigger.
Yes, because opinion polls are so precision accurate these days they will have no choice.
I know they're posturing, and I don't think there's any appetite to cancel, but what is he on about. Brexit hasn't even legally been declared, our referendums are not binding so it technically could be cancelled and certainly delayed.
Is there any reason now why Douglas Carswell couldn't return to the Conservatives fairly soon? He left largely because of his dislike of David Cameron, but he's no longer going to be relevant in a couple of months' time. The other reason, leaving the EU, is something that all leadership candidates are working towards and Douglas Carswell isn't conspicuously anti-immigration so he should be able to toe whatever party line the Conservatives come up with.
Depends whether the new leadership would want him back. He's rather outspoken and a bit of a loose cannon.
On the other hand, maybe we'll see him forming part of the Brexit government. Stranger things have happened...
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
Agree with those, plus its and it's, and disinterested vs uninterested.
Oh, and the way here they almost always spell capitOl with an O, even if they shouldn't.
Another irritating thing, on the BBC World Service I notice in particular, is that when asked a question, the responder will frequently start the reply with the word "So, ..."
James Boswell uses disinterested "wrong" in the Life of Johnson, and what's good enough for him...
And while I'm at it I never saw what was wrong with split infinitives, or degrees of uniqueness.
Appalling racist attacks on British People, officials and even MEPs on the streets and bars of Brussels, Eurostar and even in EU and EU parliament buldings.
Apparently this has been going on at a low level for years but has got far worse in the last week.
Funnily enough I dont see SJWs foaming all over social media about it though.
Racist? How can Europeans be racist towards other Europeans?
The article mentions "racist" once - here (And it is a quote from Nigel Farage)
The Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, added: ‘There’s some pretty nasty stuff going on. 'The general narrative at home is about racist abuse on the streets of Britain, but some of the stuff we’re seeing from Brussels Eurocrats is horrific.’
No mention of it in the article, and though this is unpleasant it is not 'racism'.
More evidence, were any needed, that Farage is an effing idiot
Kippers have been lambasting Carswell on Twitter all day for his comments about the campaign... basically he bitched that UKIP were not trying to sell the Libertarian free-trade answer to the world, can't think why he felt they would be doing that, UKIP hasn't been Libertarian for years.
Is there any reason now why Douglas Carswell couldn't return to the Conservatives fairly soon?
Would he fight another by-election?
No, it's quite clear he has the mandate of his constituents. Not sure there is appetite in Clacton for another by-election. Of course he'd face UKIP at the next GE...
Is there any reason now why Douglas Carswell couldn't return to the Conservatives fairly soon? He left largely because of his dislike of David Cameron, but he's no longer going to be relevant in a couple of months' time. The other reason, leaving the EU, is something that all leadership candidates are working towards and Douglas Carswell isn't conspicuously anti-immigration so he should be able to toe whatever party line the Conservatives come up with.
Depends whether the new leadership would want him back. He's rather outspoken and a bit of a loose cannon.
On the other hand, maybe we'll see him forming part of the Brexit government. Stranger things have happened...
He's not a loose cannon. He's absolutely consistent: Carswell says what Carswell wants. It's his inability to bend to the central party's twists and turns that causes problems.
Is there any reason now why Douglas Carswell couldn't return to the Conservatives fairly soon? He left largely because of his dislike of David Cameron, but he's no longer going to be relevant in a couple of months' time. The other reason, leaving the EU, is something that all leadership candidates are working towards and Douglas Carswell isn't conspicuously anti-immigration so he should be able to toe whatever party line the Conservatives come up with.
Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt announces complete ban on prescription sleeping pills as the NHS will now put Michael Gove's launch speech on-line .... once he's finished next Tuesday week ....
Has he said anything about Falconer resigning yet?
I assumed you were too shrewd to be taken in by malicious gossip on an internet forum Paul
Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt announces complete ban on prescription sleeping pills as the NHS will now put Michael Gove's launch speech on-line .... once he's finished next Tuesday week ....
Has he said anything about falconer resigning yet?
No yet .... rumours abound that particular gem is being left for the final passages at the end of the summer recess.
"Along with the outrage over the election result, there's a conspicuous lack of desire to address the root reasons for the election victory. Like the fact that one of the world's oldest democracies may have lost faith in the European institutions because democracy is something its people hold near and dear. It's a thought that is immediately banished. Instead we hear about how reckless David Cameron was in calling for a referendum. The argument, put forth in numerous versions, holds that you cannot hold a popular referendum on something as complicated as EU membership.
It's astonishing how many commentators have parroted that line, seemingly unconscious of what it says about their own understanding of democracy. What it really means is this: Elections can only be good if the results correspond with the desires of the educated. Or as Micky Beisenherz, a columnist for the German weekly Stern, put it: "Democracy is great thing. The only dumb thing about it is that stupid are allowed to participate."
Thanks Plato. I'm reading around a lot to see what the Europeans are thinking. Otherwise I start getting really hostile when I hear Hollande sabre rattling just for domestic consumption. I'm trying to stay in love with Europe .
I liked this quote:
"The sociologist Werner Sombart is attributed as having said the English are a small-minded people who would place a higher value on money than freedom, whereas the Germans, on the other hand, are a "heroic people" who have retained their idealism. That is also sure to be among the certainties that the Brexit vote has dismantled."
@AgnesCPoirier: French President: "a decision was taken. Can't be postponed or cancelled." We're in a hurry: Le Pen is at the door. https://t.co/DjGqdVtTGK
Given that the EU must now realise that Article 50 leaves them open to being held hostage by any member state at any time, we have now created an urgent need to reform the Lisbon Treaty itself. Why not take advantage of it to secure terms on which we could stay full members?
Is there any reason now why Douglas Carswell couldn't return to the Conservatives fairly soon? He left largely because of his dislike of David Cameron, but he's no longer going to be relevant in a couple of months' time. The other reason, leaving the EU, is something that all leadership candidates are working towards and Douglas Carswell isn't conspicuously anti-immigration so he should be able to toe whatever party line the Conservatives come up with.
Depends whether the new leadership would want him back. He's rather outspoken and a bit of a loose cannon.
On the other hand, maybe we'll see him forming part of the Brexit government. Stranger things have happened...
If I were the Conservative Party and he wanted back in, I'd ask him to stay in UKIP a little longer. The longer he stays in, the more damage is done to UKIP. This is a sign of Farage's mania, as Carswell should have been a positive for the party. His talents have been wasted because of Farage's ego.
And then, once the maximum damage has been caused to UKIP, let him back in. They could call it a penance.
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
Agree with those, plus its and it's, and disinterested vs uninterested.
Oh, and the way here they almost always spell capitOl with an O, even if they shouldn't.
Another irritating thing, on the BBC World Service I notice in particular, is that when asked a question, the responder will frequently start the reply with the word "So, ..."
James Boswell uses disinterested "wrong" in the Life of Johnson, and what's good enough for him...
And while I'm at it I never saw what was wrong with split infinitives, or degrees of uniqueness.
Unique is my least favourite word.
Virtually every investment proposition I get shown is "uniquely positioned" or some such bullsh1t. Makes me want to barf.
Of course those people who voted Leave and wanted to abolish FOM will be disappointed. But the 48% Remainers, plus maybe a third of the rest, will be quite content to keep it. That is a sizable majority, all in all, and that's democracy for you
You are attributing motives to people, and wrongly assuming that all those who voted Remain did so because they don't mind freedom of movement. Many of them, such as me, will have voted Remain despite the fact that they see that as a disadvantage.
But we have had a referendum, in which the principal message of the winning side was clear. Personally, I respect it, but it's odd that so many on the winning side now claim they don't.
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
@AgnesCPoirier: French President: "a decision was taken. Can't be postponed or cancelled." We're in a hurry: Le Pen is at the door. https://t.co/DjGqdVtTGK
@AgnesCPoirier: French President: "a decision was taken. Can't be postponed or cancelled." We're in a hurry: Le Pen is at the door. https://t.co/DjGqdVtTGK
Elections in France next year
What is the optimum date to sign Article 50 in order to bugger Hollande’s chances..?
Appalling racist attacks on British People, officials and even MEPs on the streets and bars of Brussels, Eurostar and even in EU and EU parliament buldings.
Apparently this has been going on at a low level for years but has got far worse in the last week.
Funnily enough I dont see SJWs foaming all over social media about it though.
Racist? How can Europeans be racist towards other Europeans?
The article mentions "racist" once - here (And it is a quote from Nigel Farage)
The Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, added: ‘There’s some pretty nasty stuff going on. 'The general narrative at home is about racist abuse on the streets of Britain, but some of the stuff we’re seeing from Brussels Eurocrats is horrific.’
No mention of it in the article, and though this is unpleasant it is not 'racism'.
Right. So brits telling EU citizens in the UK to F. Off home or similar is Racist.
People in brussels doing the same to british people there isnt Racist. Glad we have that sorted.
We cannot know exactly why people voted the way they did. We can make assumptions but cannot know for sure. And we don't know what things people might accept as the cost for something else. As such , our MPs have to determine what they think the majority want. Out of EU but free movement might be the closest compromise. Disliked by both sides, but they can punish them at the next election.
Of course those people who voted Leave and wanted to abolish FOM will be disappointed. But the 48% Remainers, plus maybe a third of the rest, will be quite content to keep it. That is a sizable majority, all in all, and that's democracy for you
You are attributing motives to people, and wrongly assuming that all those who voted Remain did so because they don't mind freedom of movement. Many of them, such as me, will have voted Remain despite the fact that they see that as a disadvantage.
But we have had a referendum, in which the principal message of the winning side was clear. Personally, I respect it, but it's odd that so many on the winning side now claim they don't.
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
Agree with those, plus its and it's, and disinterested vs uninterested.
Oh, and the way here they almost always spell capitOl with an O, even if they shouldn't.
Another irritating thing, on the BBC World Service I notice in particular, is that when asked a question, the responder will frequently start the reply with the word "So, ..."
James Boswell uses disinterested "wrong" in the Life of Johnson, and what's good enough for him...
And while I'm at it I never saw what was wrong with split infinitives, or degrees of uniqueness.
Unique is my least favourite word.
Virtually every investment proposition I get shown is "uniquely positioned" or some such bullsh1t. Makes me want to barf.
While we're on the subject of pet hates. "Exclusive". Every tiny, squalid, sack-of-shit new build round here is always "An exclusive development of..." etc. Had a look at one recently on behalf of my aged Mum. You'd need to decelerate rapidly after entering the front, else you'd break your nose on the back door.
Brexit cannot be cancelled or delayed, says François Hollande
The chatter seems to be if we don't trigger Article 50 they will try and trigger Article 7
Oh, okay. What's Article 7?!
Article 7 TEU aims at ensuring that all EU countries respect the common values of the EU, including the rule of law. The preventive mechanism of Article 7(1) TEU can be activated only in case of a ’clear risk of a serious breach’ and the sanctioning mechanism of Article 7(2) TEU only in case of a ’serious and persistent breach by a Member State’ of the values set out in Article 2.
Article 2 states:
The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities. These values are common to the Member States in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail.
Utter rubbish. Legally it was a nonbinding referendum and nothing has changed.
That said, the ECJ interprets things in a way that suits it with a view to ever closer union so would probably deploy judicial activism to gerrymander the result.
We sure are learning who our friends are. Hostility from euro governments and racist attacks by their brussels people, meanwhile us and commonwealth stampeding for trade deals.
Maybe its about time the MOD sent a couple of trident subs to Zeebrugge and get them to near surface and wave their periscopes around outside the harbour.
That should smooth the Brexit negotiations nicely.
@AgnesCPoirier: French President: "a decision was taken. Can't be postponed or cancelled." We're in a hurry: Le Pen is at the door. https://t.co/DjGqdVtTGK
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
The problem is that the Vote Leave campaign - the side which won, and which you and other Leavers supported - used immigration as their principal argument. Indeed, not only did they make heavy use of it, they even invented some absolute grade-A solid-gold nonsensical scaremongering about Turkey to embellish it. Perhaps they were lying in the most cynical way imaginable. I'll leave that question to the conscience of those who were happy to go along with their campaign.
If Carswell joins the Tories now, does he get a vote in the MPs' ballots?
Normal members had to have joined three months before Cameron resigned (24th March?). Can't see anything in the rule book about qualifying dates for MPs though. Would be an interesting call for the '22 Chairman to have to make.
Given that the EU must now realise that Article 50 leaves them open to being held hostage by any member state at any time, we have now created an urgent need to reform the Lisbon Treaty itself. Why not take advantage of it to secure terms on which we could stay full members?
Not sure they'd want that now even if they decided to go full 2 speed EU. But it's only blackmailed by article 50 if they crack and offer new terms. If they don't it's annoying were not declaring buy manageable.
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
The problem is that the Vote Leave campaign - the side which won, and which you and other Leavers supported - used immigration as their principal argument. Indeed, not only did they make heavy use of it, they even invented some absolute grade-A solid-gold nonsensical scaremongering about Turkey to embellish it. Perhaps they were lying in the most cynical way imaginable. I'll leave that question to the conscience of those who were happy to go along with their campaign.
I've asked before: can anyone show official literature (e.g. leaflets) from either leave campaign that mentioned either EEA or EFTA?
I can't remember any (but that's not saying much).
It's the new reality - to be a proper political party in Britain you have to have an ongoing leadership crisis. Otherwise the media won't report anything you do or say.
Carswell has form, he can't help it. When he was a Tory MP every TV appearance included a criticism of government policy. I emailed a mild rebuke and was blocked from further comment.
@carlgardner: Odd that he prefers EU-style elections to the system that's always underpinned British Parliamentary sovereignty. https://t.co/rBzUPweMGv
It's the new reality - to be a proper political party in Britain you have to have an ongoing leadership crisis. Otherwise the media won't report anything you do or say.
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
The problem is that the Vote Leave campaign - the side which won, and which you and other Leavers supported - used immigration as their principal argument. Indeed, not only did they make heavy use of it, they even invented some absolute grade-A solid-gold nonsensical scaremongering about Turkey to embellish it. Perhaps they were lying in the most cynical way imaginable. I'll leave that question to the conscience of those who were happy to go along with their campaign.
I've asked before: can anyone show official literature (e.g. leaflets) from either leave campaign that mentioned either EEA or EFTA?
I can't remember any (but that's not saying much).
This is a kind of joint response to you and Mr Nabavi. I didn't take any notice of either of the Leave campaigns. I went on the warpath here when I got the leaflet showing the map of Europe with the accession countries on it, with the veiled threat of '78 million Muslims', which I thought was disgusting. That leaflet didn't mention anything other than 'out of the EU' and 'take back control'.
I've said repeatedly that the scale and pace of mass immigration has caused problems for many people in this country, but it's not something that affects me personally.
I cannot put myself in moral dignity pants because odious people are on 'my' side in a yes/no referendum, nor can I understand people who think that I should.
It's the new reality - to be a proper political party in Britain you have to have an ongoing leadership crisis. Otherwise the media won't report anything you do or say.
What's going on with the greens I wonder
There is a leadership election. Sure to be a blood bath at some point.
@carlgardner: Odd that he prefers EU-style elections to the system that's always underpinned British Parliamentary sovereignty. https://t.co/rBzUPweMGv
As he's never won a direct election it's not hard to see why he would prefer a party list.
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
The problem is that the Vote Leave campaign - the side which won, and which you and other Leavers supported - used immigration as their principal argument. Indeed, not only did they make heavy use of it, they even invented some absolute grade-A solid-gold nonsensical scaremongering about Turkey to embellish it. Perhaps they were lying in the most cynical way imaginable. I'll leave that question to the conscience of those who were happy to go along with their campaign.
I've asked before: can anyone show official literature (e.g. leaflets) from either leave campaign that mentioned either EEA or EFTA?
I can't remember any (but that's not saying much).
Does it matter? The people voted to leave the EU. Anything more than that and they can ask for it in another referendum. The leave campaign isn't the government and the next PM (Theresa) will have had little to do with it. This concern trolling from both you and Richard is tiresome. Only half of the leave vote was motivated by immigration, the rest was for a variety of reasons, two of which were having control over our laws and regaining sovereignty.
I've said repeatedly that the scale and pace of mass immigration has caused problems for many people in this country, but it's not something that affects me personally.
I cannot put myself in moral dignity pants because odious people are on 'my' side in a yes/no referendum, nor can I understand people who think that I should.
My point has nothing whatsoever to do with 'odious people'. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about the excessive scale of EU immigration and the resultant pressure on housing and services; it's a concern I share, and many very fine people I know share.
That isn't the issue, the issue is that people were told, completely unambiguously, that leaving the EU would mean we would no longer be subject to the EU/EEA freedom of movement rules. There's no getting away from this, it wasn't a footnote or an implication or an exaggeration, it was the centrepiece of the campaign. Personally, I think that means that MPs are now obliged to respect that. Quite how they do it I dont know, since there seems to be a belated understanding that the economic hit of doing so is likely to be unacceptable. Well, what a surprise, but, again, it's not as though voters weren't told that.
@carlgardner: Odd that he prefers EU-style elections to the system that's always underpinned British Parliamentary sovereignty. https://t.co/rBzUPweMGv
Can Theresa May please kill one or two of the unnecessary government departments? Kill DfiD and move a (small) part of its remaining functionality to FCO for disaster relief - we really don't need the foreign virtue signalling as much as we need to save the money wasted on it. Kill Energy altogether. And finally get after the quangos with some vigour.
Theresa, Dave was a lousy metrosexual gimp with not a reforming bone in his body. You don't need to ape that. Go with the people.
So this from earlier on.
The aid budget is already significantly disbursed to the various departments. The danger in this is it just becomes a big slush fund but without the degree of scrutiny that being spent by a department entails.
IMO the department of energy should be the department of energy security, and should be merged with the DTI.
I've said repeatedly that the scale and pace of mass immigration has caused problems for many people in this country, but it's not something that affects me personally.
I cannot put myself in moral dignity pants because odious people are on 'my' side in a yes/no referendum, nor can I understand people who think that I should.
My point has nothing whatsoever to do with 'odious people'. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about the excessive scale of EU immigration and the resultant pressure on housing and services; it's a concern I share, and many very fine people I know share.
That isn't the issue, the issue is that people were told, completely unambiguously, that leaving the EU would mean we would no longer be subject to the EU/EEA freedom of movement rules. There's no getting away from this, it wasn't a footnote or an implication or an exaggeration, it was the centrepiece of the campaign. Personally, I think that means that MPs are now obliged to respect that. Quite how they do it I dont know, since there seems to be a belated understanding that the economic hit of doing so is likely to be unacceptable. Well, what a surprise, but, again, it's not as though voters weren't told that.
Maybe your missing the signal they expect their politicians to look at it again.
It's the new reality - to be a proper political party in Britain you have to have an ongoing leadership crisis. Otherwise the media won't report anything you do or say.
What's going on with the greens I wonder
There is a leadership election. Sure to be a blood bath at some point.
Don't the Greens have a leadership election every year at Conference?
We had a referendum to leave the EU. It is only the anti-democrats like FF43 who seem to want to ignore it.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
The problem is that the Vote Leave campaign - the side which won, and which you and other Leavers supported - used immigration as their principal argument. Indeed, not only did they make heavy use of it, they even invented some absolute grade-A solid-gold nonsensical scaremongering about Turkey to embellish it. Perhaps they were lying in the most cynical way imaginable. I'll leave that question to the conscience of those who were happy to go along with their campaign.
The stuff about turkey in particular was nonsense and I for one said so. But the government is for everyone, not just vote leave, so if it comes up with a deal which us leave light many won't like it but it won't be a betrayal. Vote leave said it wasn't for them to plan how Brexit goes. If they want to then they need leadsom to win.
I've said repeatedly that the scale and pace of mass immigration has caused problems for many people in this country, but it's not something that affects me personally.
I cannot put myself in moral dignity pants because odious people are on 'my' side in a yes/no referendum, nor can I understand people who think that I should.
My point has nothing whatsoever to do with 'odious people'. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about the excessive scale of EU immigration and the resultant pressure on housing and services; it's a concern I share, and many very fine people I know share.
That isn't the issue, the issue is that people were told, completely unambiguously, that leaving the EU would mean we would no longer be subject to the EU/EEA freedom of movement rules. There's no getting away from this, it wasn't a footnote or an implication or an exaggeration, it was the centrepiece of the campaign. Personally, I think that means that MPs are now obliged to respect that. Quite how they do it I dont know, since there seems to be a belated understanding that the economic hit of doing so is likely to be unacceptable. Well, what a surprise, but, again, it's not as though voters weren't told that.
Ah, I'm sorry I misunderstood the thrust of your argument. Based on personal anecdota, I think several Leavers I know are expecting a reduction in immigration to around 100k or thereabouts. I have no idea how practical that expectation is.
Most of my family (if they talked about immigration at all) were concerned about the immediate access to benefits/housing for those immigrants without a job, and in-work benefits for those with one. Yes, I know, it doesn't make sense given the UK system.
Gaby Hinsliff @gabyhinsliff Nothing, but nothing, fills your inbox with furious conspiracy theorists as fast as writing about Jeremy Corbyn. not even writing about UFOs
Mr. Charles, I thought you were going to refer to the abomination of qualifying 'unique' [ie "quite unique"].
Not an abomination. I am unique and so is Mo Farah, but he is very unique while I am only so-so.
You are either unique or you are not unique. It is a binary outcome
No, you are unique. Everything in the universe is, if you include its spatial coordinates in its description (at least at classical scales; this may not be true at the quantum level - I wouldn't know). So if we can't qualify the word it is useless, because it applies equally to everything, and should not be used at all. Which is probably the best solution.
Edit: as a human being you are unique anyway by virtue of DNA and personal history, so you don't need the spatial location qualification to the argument.
I shall be in a most awkward position if Leaving ends up poorly, and we don't lower immigration - Remainers will call me a fool, and anti-immigration leavers will see me as a quisling if I'm ok with a deal with FOM. Speaking to some leavers, they were indeed very clear to me that they expected immigration would be cut. Now, there's no reason the government is bound to that, or even the attempt, any more than a manifesto promise (and in fact less so since not all the government supporter VoteLeave), but while it would please many remainers and some fewer leavers, it will anger a lot of people.
Well it's not a terrible idea in some ways, but one constitutional crisis at a time (in fairness, sorting out our devolution, electoral and other messes in the time period of the article 50 negotiations would probably be a good idea too, but I think that is beyond mortal man)
Comments
The Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, added: ‘There’s some pretty nasty stuff going on.
'The general narrative at home is about racist abuse on the streets of Britain, but some of the stuff we’re seeing from Brussels Eurocrats is horrific.’
No mention of it in the article, and though this is unpleasant it is not 'racism'.
The only mechanism that would make me change my mind would be a new treaty that formally enshrines a two bloc Europe. But that's not going to happen, so Brexit it is.
says the bloke from the country that voted twice.
I remember the days in the early 70s when I would pay my 50p during the first week and wander round all the outside courts.
On the other hand, maybe we'll see him forming part of the Brexit government. Stranger things have happened...
And while I'm at it I never saw what was wrong with split infinitives, or degrees of uniqueness.
'Brexit cannot be cancelled or delayed, says François Hollande'
That's great coming from a politician that's currently supported by 12% of French voters.
(I expect he'd win easily - Carswell that is)
Would the Betfair market be settled if SDP 2 somehow managed to retain the Labour name?
If Corbyn Labour as is most likely retains the name Lewis would be great value
"The sociologist Werner Sombart is attributed as having said the English are a small-minded people who would place a higher value on money than freedom, whereas the Germans, on the other hand, are a "heroic people" who have retained their idealism. That is also sure to be among the certainties that the Brexit vote has dismantled."
@AgnesCPoirier: French President: "a decision was taken. Can't be postponed or cancelled." We're in a hurry: Le Pen is at the door. https://t.co/DjGqdVtTGK
Elections in France next year
'leaving the LibDems as the only party in England not rocked by infighting and division?
Have you read LibDemVoice recently? They're just not getting the column inches....for anything.'
Half a dozen people talking among themselves, some days there are more threads than comments.
And then, once the maximum damage has been caused to UKIP, let him back in. They could call it a penance.
Virtually every investment proposition I get shown is "uniquely positioned" or some such bullsh1t. Makes me want to barf.
The polls (for what they are worth) both before and after the vote have shown a clear majority in favour of maintaining access to the single market even if it means maintaining freedom of movement. If you want to align yourself with the minority who see immigration as the most important issue feel free. The rest of us will continue to press for what has always been by far the most sensible arrangement which is EFTA/EEA membership.
People in brussels doing the same to british people there isnt Racist. Glad we have that sorted.
https://twitter.com/UKIPPOOLE/status/748641669839527937
That said, the ECJ interprets things in a way that suits it with a view to ever closer union so would probably deploy judicial activism to gerrymander the result.
We sure are learning who our friends are. Hostility from euro governments and racist attacks by their brussels people, meanwhile us and commonwealth stampeding for trade deals.
Maybe its about time the MOD sent a couple of trident subs to Zeebrugge and get them to near surface and wave their periscopes around outside the harbour.
That should smooth the Brexit negotiations nicely.
All he has to do is to agree to our terms.
I can't remember any (but that's not saying much).
Just glad I was on my own device the day I wanted to see if the BBC was trending on a certain bird like social media
@carlgardner: Odd that he prefers EU-style elections to the system that's always underpinned British Parliamentary sovereignty. https://t.co/rBzUPweMGv
I've said repeatedly that the scale and pace of mass immigration has caused problems for many people in this country, but it's not something that affects me personally.
I cannot put myself in moral dignity pants because odious people are on 'my' side in a yes/no referendum, nor can I understand people who think that I should.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/cameron-spends-relaxing-day-at-home-laughing-20160701110050
Gove out to 4's. May out to 8's. Javid in to 5's. Leadsom still 2/1 fav.
https://twitter.com/paul1kirby/status/748916457946419200
That isn't the issue, the issue is that people were told, completely unambiguously, that leaving the EU would mean we would no longer be subject to the EU/EEA freedom of movement rules. There's no getting away from this, it wasn't a footnote or an implication or an exaggeration, it was the centrepiece of the campaign. Personally, I think that means that MPs are now obliged to respect that. Quite how they do it I dont know, since there seems to be a belated understanding that the economic hit of doing so is likely to be unacceptable. Well, what a surprise, but, again, it's not as though voters weren't told that.
https://youtu.be/IAJmXWF1TDQ
Palin warm-up..
The aid budget is already significantly disbursed to the various departments. The danger in this is it just becomes a big slush fund but without the degree of scrutiny that being spent by a department entails.
IMO the department of energy should be the department of energy security, and should be merged with the DTI.
Just no.
He is more distinctive or special than you, but you are both unique.
@Andrew_ComRes: I've been picking up tons of anecdotal stories of businesses screeching to a dead stop in wake of #Brexit vote - slowdown is real
Maybe his anecdotes will be more accurate.
Most of my family (if they talked about immigration at all) were concerned about the immediate access to benefits/housing for those immigrants without a job, and in-work benefits for those with one. Yes, I know, it doesn't make sense given the UK system.
Britain Elects @britainelects 6h6 hours ago
On a second EU referendum:
Support: 32%
Oppose: 60%
(via BMG / 29 - 30 Jun)
274 retweets 166 likes
Keiran Pedley Retweeted
Britain Elects @britainelects 6h6 hours ago
EU referendum poll:
Remain: 45%
Leave: 40%
Nothing, but nothing, fills your inbox with furious conspiracy theorists as fast as writing about Jeremy Corbyn. not even writing about UFOs
Edit: as a human being you are unique anyway by virtue of DNA and personal history, so you don't need the spatial location qualification to the argument.