It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
Then say it's THE solution, plus Free Movement. Bite the bullet. We'll still have LEFT which is what voters demanded.
But tell the voters net migration is coming down anyway, which it will be, in spades. There won't be so much work for Polish brickies and Romanian car washers, for quite a while. And do something on benefits.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Your solution is pretty much the same as mine of a couple of days ago, except that I added the twist of some face-saving deception which gave parliament theoretical but not practical sovereignty over freedom of movement. (Come to think of it, we could use the German Consitutional Court as a model for this creatively dishonest solution).
Homebuilders hard hit by Brexit - might damage their confidence going forward. One of @currystar posts on this pre-vote that started to change my mind on the whole caboodle.
If we really do need more homes then there will not be 40% falls in prices UK wide. We have an increase in demand that is still outstripping supply.
People go into the rented sector.
What a house price crash means is that the volume of houses being sold crashes. People are too sacred to buy. So that 500k that someone would have paid for a house with a 400k mortgage doesn't happen. That means there is 400k not slashing around in the real economy. Multiply that by many tens of thousands of times and you can see why a house price crash is terrible for a fragile UK economy. It effectively takes many billions out of the real economy, as well as hits the construction industry, as well as directly reduces tax intake through stamp duty, as well as hits associated industry sectors...solicitors etc.....
This scenario which is now happening in London and other affluent areas will spread outwards. This will be combined with foreign businesses who invest in the UK and have access to the common market reviewing their decisions. Add years of uncertainty and the odd political crisis and constitutional crisis.
Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck for Britain PLC.
"People are too sacred to buy" is beautiful, you are obviously in touch with your inner Wilberforce. Otherwise: calm down, it may not happen, or it might have been due to happen anyway.
Homebuilders hard hit by Brexit - might damage their confidence going forward. One of @currystar posts on this pre-vote that started to change my mind on the whole caboodle.
If we really do need more homes then there will not be 40% falls in prices UK wide. We have an increase in demand that is still outstripping supply.
People go into the rented sector.
What a house price crash means is that the volume of houses being sold crashes. People are too sacred to buy. So that 500k that someone would have paid for a house with a 400k mortgage doesn't happen. That means there is 400k not slashing around in the real economy. Multiply that by many tens of thousands of times and you can see why a house price crash is terrible for a fragile UK economy. It effectively takes many billions out of the real economy, as well as hits the construction industry, as well as directly reduces tax intake through stamp duty, as well as hits associated industry sectors...solicitors etc.....
This scenario which is now happening in London and other affluent areas will spread outwards. This will be combined with foreign businesses who invest in the UK and have access to the common market reviewing their decisions. Add years of uncertainty and the odd political crisis and constitutional crisis.
Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck for Britain PLC.
The places like Ireland or Spain that popped their housing bubbles had a few hard years but are now growing quite quickly. Better or worse than the slow grind of stasis? Surely the jury is out?
Fox- we had a housing crash too in 2008, don't forget. I'd like to see how Spain and Ireland would like to have another one foisted on them now with their public finances scraping out of the depths.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
Then say it's THE solution, plus Free Movement. Bite the bullet. We'll still have LEFT which is what voters demanded.
But tell the voters net migration is coming down anyway, which it will be, in spades. There won't be so much work for Polish brickies and Romanian car washers, for quite a while. And do something on benefits.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
World + wife is talking about EFTA/EEA + FoM with the potential to segue into something else much later on (preferably after I'm dead, can't take too much more excitement). We talked about little else yesterday.
Everybody wants to trade, even the Frogs.
If immigration is still a problem, our politicians will have to do what they should have done in the first place - reform the freaking welfare system.
We've been like some ghastly decadent Romans for too long - toss a wodge of money to that client group over there, another to those over here. Time for a bit more financial discipline.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
Then say it's THE solution, plus Free Movement. Bite the bullet. We'll still have LEFT which is what voters demanded.
But tell the voters net migration is coming down anyway, which it will be, in spades. There won't be so much work for Polish brickies and Romanian car washers, for quite a while. And do something on benefits.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Your solution is pretty much the same as mine of a couple of days ago, except that I added the twist of some face-saving deception which gave parliament theoretical but not practical sovereignty over freedom of movement. (Come to think of it, we could use the German Consitutional Court as a model for this creatively dishonest solution).
That sounds like a good idea. I think we could also link handing out of NI numbers to those who have confirmed jobs and not to those only looking for work.
If any party insiders want to chime in, what are the chances that the party will split if Gove becomes PM and takes us out if the single market?
He won't be able to under that circumstance because the europhile Tories would stage a rebellion first in the Commons, thus depriving him of a majority to take us out of the SM. It's a Catch 22 in that regard.
King Cole, Cameron had to work hard to lose the referendum.
1 - Rubbish negotiation. 2 - Pretending it was great, insulting the voters' intelligence. 3 - Starting off with hyperbolic fear-mongering, diminishing credibility and ensuring people grew accustomed to/bored with Project Fear. 4 - Using 'Little England' as a pejorative term in a referendum with a 90% or so English electorate.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
We aren't exactly in the good books right now - UKIP won the last Euro elections (Remember those ?)
You don't seem to grasp how the UK economy is founded on house prices, and the confidence they bring. Yes a modest correction would be good. 10%? But this is like lighting a wildfire to clear a small portion of a very dry forest: the chances it could get out of hand are big, and the whole forest could burn. Who's to say property prices won't halve?
What would that do?
And then there's the confidence thing. Rising house prices make homeowners feel happy and prosperous (even if it's bogus), falling house prices bring negative equity and retail slumps and the entire economy seizes up. We could be facing the worst case Brexit scenarios of a 5-10% drop in GDP.
10% is almost twice the drop we experienced after 2008.
I hope I'm wrong and it's just a modest correction, mainly in London and the SE, which would very arguably be a good thing. But no one knows.
The UK economy has been 'boosted' by high house prices in three ways:
ened was 1990-92, and saw house prices fall 40% in real terms, and unemployment double.
Well that's cheering.
And that's just the effect of house prices.
onomic damage done by a mild civil war.
Fab!
But, as I keep saying, this is not inevitable. The fecking Tories have to admit all this, and go for EEA immediately, and stop the madness. Confidence will return, and quickly, if investors, homebuyers, bankers, know that not much will change, at least at first, as we keep all our economic ties with the EU.
I think we're
Does Mr Gove not see any of this, as he advocates leaving the single market?
FFS even John
I think if the EU offers us EEA/single market but only with Free Movement we will just have to take it, sell it to the voters as an emergency stopgap. PM May can say to the people, quite honestly, that immigration is going to fall quickly, anyway, which it will, it always does in slumps. There won't be any UK jobs for EU nationals. They will stop coming.
At the same time take students out of the stats.
Sounds reasonable to me on the face of it though the devil is in the details. Personally, as a leaver who doesn't care about immigration I think it would be hilarious if others cried betrayal because we dont address it. Because as was stressed repeatedly vote leave itself was not an alternate government, and the question was only about leaving. Anything under that label would be no betrayal.
It would make plenty angry as immigration was a key message, but leave is leave, nothing else was specified by the question.
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Nah, you just need to give me a tot of navy rum, and I'm back to full fighting vigour, as anyone on here after 10pm would know.
Yes by around 9pm you'll be banging on about sticking it to Junker and Merkel along with the Frogs.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
We aren't exactly in the good books right now - UKIP won the last Euro elections (Remember those ?)
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
Homebuilders hard hit by Brexit - might damage their confidence going forward. One of @currystar posts on this pre-vote that started to change my mind on the whole caboodle.
If we really do need more homes then there will not be 40% falls in prices UK wide. We have an increase in demand that is still outstripping supply.
People go into the rented sector.
What a house price crash means is that the volume of houses being sold crashes. People are too sacred to buy. So that 500k that someone would have paid for a house with a 400k mortgage doesn't happen. That means there is 400k not slashing around in the real economy. Multiply that by many tens of thousands of times and you can see why a house price crash is terrible for a fragile UK economy. It effectively takes many billions out of the real economy, as well as hits the construction industry, as well as directly reduces tax intake through stamp duty, as well as hits associated industry sectors...solicitors etc.....
This scenario which is now happening in London and other affluent areas will spread outwards. This will be combined with foreign businesses who invest in the UK and have access to the common market reviewing their decisions. Add years of uncertainty and the odd political crisis and constitutional crisis.
Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck for Britain PLC.
The places like Ireland or Spain that popped their housing bubbles had a few hard years but are now growing quite quickly. Better or worse than the slow grind of stasis? Surely the jury is out?
Fox- we had a housing crash too in 2008, don't forget. I'd like to see how Spain and Ireland would like to have another one foisted on them now with their public finances scraping out of the depths.
Their recoveries aren't entirely based on a new housing bubble though.
Homebuilders hard hit by Brexit - might damage their confidence going forward. One of @currystar posts on this pre-vote that started to change my mind on the whole caboodle.
If we really do need more homes then there will not be 40% falls in prices UK wide. We have an increase in demand that is still outstripping supply.
People go into the rented sector.
What a house price crash means is that the volume of houses being sold crashes. People are too sacred to buy. So that 500k that someone would have paid for a house with a 400k mortgage doesn't happen. That means there is 400k not slashing around in the real economy. Multiply that by many tens of thousands of times and you can see why a house price crash is terrible for a fragile UK economy. It effectively takes many billions out of the real economy, as well as hits the construction industry, as well as directly reduces tax intake through stamp duty, as well as hits associated industry sectors...solicitors etc.....
This scenario which is now happening in London and other affluent areas will spread outwards. This will be combined with foreign businesses who invest in the UK and have access to the common market reviewing their decisions. Add years of uncertainty and the odd political crisis and constitutional crisis.
Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck for Britain PLC.
The places like Ireland or Spain that popped their housing bubbles had a few hard years but are now growing quite quickly. Better or worse than the slow grind of stasis? Surely the jury is out?
Fox- we had a housing crash too in 2008, don't forget. I'd like to see how Spain and Ireland would like to have another one foisted on them now with their public finances scraping out of the depths.
Their recoveries aren't entirely based on a new housing bubble though.
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Nah, you just need to give me a tot of navy rum, and I'm back to full fighting vigour, as anyone on here after 10pm would know.
Dutch courage is not courage though Sean. FFS chill out. We'll be hugely better off and freer as a nation in a few years' time. All this remainiac panicking is essentially tantamount to saying that the EU is a prison / Hotel California. And that anyone anywhere who wants to use their vote to make sure they can remove politicians who rule their lives is a vandal. Fuck That. Is your squeeze denying you blowjobs over this or something?
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
Then say it's THE solution, plus Free Movement. Bite the bullet. We'll still have LEFT which is what voters demanded.
But tell the voters net migration is coming down anyway, which it will be, in spades. There won't be so much work for Polish brickies and Romanian car washers, for quite a while. And do something on benefits.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Your solution is pretty much the same as mine of a couple of days ago, except that I added the twist of some face-saving deception which gave parliament theoretical but not practical sovereignty over freedom of movement. (Come to think of it, we could use the German Consitutional Court as a model for this creatively dishonest solution).
That sounds like a good idea. I think we could also link handing out of NI numbers to those who have confirmed jobs and not to those only looking for work.
Oooh... that's a neat idea. When you get your first job then you apply for an NI card. Sure, it'd only have a minor effect, but it'd probably have some.
Homebuilders hard hit by Brexit - might damage their confidence going forward. One of @currystar posts on this pre-vote that started to change my mind on the whole caboodle.
If we really do need more homes then there will not be 40% falls in prices UK wide. We have an increase in demand that is still outstripping supply.
People go into the rented sector.
What a house price crash means is that the volume of houses being sold crashes. People are too sacred to buy. So that 500k that someone would have paid for a house with a 400k mortgage doesn't happen. That means there is 400k not slashing around in the real economy. Multiply that by many tens of thousands of times and you can see why a house price crash is terrible for a fragile UK economy. It effectively takes many billions out of the real economy, as well as hits the construction industry, as well as directly reduces tax intake through stamp duty, as well as hits associated industry sectors...solicitors etc.....
This scenario which is now happening in London and other affluent areas will spread outwards. This will be combined with foreign businesses who invest in the UK and have access to the common market reviewing their decisions. Add years of uncertainty and the odd political crisis and constitutional crisis.
Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck for Britain PLC.
"People are too sacred to buy" is beautiful, you are obviously in touch with your inner Wilberforce. Otherwise: calm down, it may not happen, or it might have been due to happen anyway.
"... for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth ..."
Well stop it. have a nice cup of tea, keep calm and carry on.
By the way, if you negotiate your book deals in the same way as you suggest the country should negotiate with the EU then you are considerably poorer than you should be.
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Nah, you just need to give me a tot of navy rum, and I'm back to full fighting vigour, as anyone on here after 10pm would know.
Dutch courage is not courage though Sean. FFS chill out. We'll be hugely better off and freer as a nation in a few years' time. All this remainiac panicking is essentially tantamount to saying that the EU is a prison / Hotel California. And that anyone anywhere who wants to use their vote to make sure they can remove politicians who rule their lives is a vandal. Fuck That. Is your squeeze denying you blowjobs over this or something?
If May gets what she wants – which is a europhile as leader of the Labour Party, she'll be able to effect the SeanT/RichardN package without much strife, given that europhiles have a massive parliamentary majority and all four main parties would be led by europhiles.
Yeah, I know Ukip will win 100 seats blah blah blah, except of course they won't, because that would mean they would need to find 100 decent candidates who wouldn't say something racist and horrific within a few days of becoming a PPC. Odds of that happening: longer than those of Article 50 never being invoked.
So May, and EEA+ECHR+FOM+EFTA+any other Es you can think of, happy days. But we'll very soon wonder why we ever bothered with all this pointless Brexit shite for nothing, no discernible change for the man on the Mansfield omnibus.
Project Fear has so far turned out to be a pretty accurate forecast ( Yes I know it is early days ) A £ sterling that has devalued 15% against the worlds basket case currencies such as the Vietnamese Dong , Bangladeshi Taka and Guatamalan Quetzel . Im sure it will help our exports to these important trading nations . Meanwhile UKIP seem to be giving up fighting elections . 25 council by elections in July have just 8 UKIP candidates . 5 more by elections have nominations closing at 4 pm today .UKIP are unlikely to fight more than 2 of these .
What happened in other elections last night, apart from Luton and Leatherhead?
I'm going to a traditional Hungarian wedding in Budapest in a couple of weeks. One of the traditions is that guests line up to put envelopes on a tray with a wedding gift, and the bride dances a few steps with you in return. I was told to make it £s as that's hard currency, but now they've said that on reflection forints will be fine!
"World + wife is talking about EFTA/EEA + FoM ..."
No disrespect to your wife, but how many of them talking about this actually have the faintest idea what they are talking about? There is for example a rather large differnece, especially in the UK context, between EFTA and the EEA, so to parcel the two up as EFTA/EEA is daft.
''The reaction of market naifs (many of whom seem to inhabit my fb feed) always makes me laugh.... ''
Whisper it, but perhaps the markets LIKE Brexit. Why? because it represents a chance to get rid of that giant brake against better economic growth just about everywhere - the EU.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
Then say it's THE solution, plus Free Movement. Bite the bullet. We'll still have LEFT which is what voters demanded.
But tell the voters net migration is coming down anyway, which it will be, in spades. There won't be so much work for Polish brickies and Romanian car washers, for quite a while. And do something on benefits.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Other than a fall in sterling what precisely is not fine at the moment? Especially from a not-in-London perspective.
Do you really honestly not see what might - emphasis MIGHT - be coming your way? That what takes hold in London nearly ALWAYS spreads out, from civil wars to the Black Death?
It was only when the Black Death (first seen in Dorset) reached London that it took on its virulent, pneumonic form, ensuring that a third to a half of Britain died.
I note that the Scots tried to take advantage of the Black Death in England, by seizing Durham, but in doing so they caught the plague as well, and 30% of Scots died, too.
History affords so many excellent ironies.
I don't see a single thing that MIGHT be coming in the future that I didn't know MIGHT BE coming when I marked my ballot paper. So other than falling sterling (potentially no bad thing) and falling London house prices (ditto) what is ACTUALLY happening that wasn't foretold previously?
"... for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth ..."
Well stop it. have a nice cup of tea, keep calm and carry on.
By the way, if you negotiate your book deals in the same way as you suggest the country should negotiate with the EU then you are considerably poorer than you should be.
LIKE!!!!
While one should always remember the alternate version of IF ...... If you can keep you head, while all about you/ Are losing theirs and blaming it on you ........ then you clearly have’t appreciated how serious the situation actually is!
However, we are not in a shooting war; we are almost certainly going to have to face from awkward times, and the world isn’t going to be how it was, but it’s highly unlikely that anyone else is going to die.
''The reaction of market naifs (many of whom seem to inhabit my fb feed) always makes me laugh.... ''
Whisper it, but perhaps the markets LIKE Brexit. Why? because it represents a chance to get rid of that giant brake against better economic growth just about everywhere - the EU.
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Nah, you just need to give me a tot of navy rum, and I'm back to full fighting vigour, as anyone on here after 10pm would know.
Dutch courage is not courage though Sean. FFS chill out. We'll be hugely better off and freer as a nation in a few years' time. All this remainiac panicking is essentially tantamount to saying that the EU is a prison / Hotel California. And that anyone anywhere who wants to use their vote to make sure they can remove politicians who rule their lives is a vandal. Fuck That. Is your squeeze denying you blowjobs over this or something?
No, she's not. Because I have a new one. Theoretical physicist. 26. Redhead. Tattoos under her lab coat. Quite exciting.
And now I must, less excitingly, hie to the post office.
Does she have a degree in theoretical physics, or a theoretical degree in physics?
If I were Angela Eagle, trailing Corbyn by only 10% I would be confident of beating him. After all every major figure in the PLP past and present could come out in support.
Yes, if the experts and established opinion weighs in, that'll swing the vote. Always works with voters, no problem.
I think they could try having a candidate and an interesting platform, plus some inclusive offers as suggested by Southam. Just a thought.
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Nah, you just need to give me a tot of navy rum, and I'm back to full fighting vigour, as anyone on here after 10pm would know.
Dutch courage is not courage though Sean. FFS chill out. We'll be hugely better off and freer as a nation in a few years' time. All this remainiac panicking is essentially tantamount to saying that the EU is a prison / Hotel California. And that anyone anywhere who wants to use their vote to make sure they can remove politicians who rule their lives is a vandal. Fuck That. Is your squeeze denying you blowjobs over this or something?
No, she's not. Because I have a new one. Theoretical physicist. 26. Redhead. Tattoos under her lab coat. Quite exciting.
And now I must, less excitingly, hie to the post office.
Phwoar! Get the hell off PB and do what comes naturally, like they do on the Discovery Channel. Brexit Schmexit.
(oh God! Now I have Bad Touch stuck in my head. Great song but I need to work)
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
Well, quite.
London will of course begin to manifest a distinct behavioural phenomenon derived from its subjective emotions.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Seems you have very little regard for democracy. Thankfully I have every faith that your idiotic suggestion will be treated with the scorn it deserves.
I see that Loretta Lynch has effectively recused herself from the Clinton Server investigation process without recusing herself, by saying that she will accept the findings of the FBI probe.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
If you want a solution that avoids economic hardship you need to ignore the voters, yes. The question is out of my hands. I voted Remain.
"World + wife is talking about EFTA/EEA + FoM ..."
No disrespect to your wife, but how many of them talking about this actually have the faintest idea what they are talking about? There is for example a rather large differnece, especially in the UK context, between EFTA and the EEA, so to parcel the two up as EFTA/EEA is daft.
I was attempting to be concise, rather than to offend your sensibilities .
By the way, I think it was you that recommended the Accursed Kings last night. If so, thank you!
"... for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth ..."
Well stop it. have a nice cup of tea, keep calm and carry on.
By the way, if you negotiate your book deals in the same way as you suggest the country should negotiate with the EU then you are considerably poorer than you should be.
LIKE!!!!
While one should always remember the alternate version of IF ...... If you can keep you head, while all about you/ Are losing theirs and blaming it on you ........ then you clearly have’t appreciated how serious the situation actually is!
However, we are not in a shooting war; we are almost certainly going to have to face from awkward times, and the world isn’t going to be how it was, but it’s highly unlikely that anyone else is going to die.
Well quite, Mr. Cole. There are three big lessons I have learned in my life, don't commit without a plan, things never look as bad in the morning, and hot, sweet tea is a sovereign remedy for anything bar a stomach wound.
I voted leave but don't want immigration controls to be the expense of the economy. So if FoM is the price for continued access to the single market then so be it. once everything has calmed down I'd like us to do more to discourage immigration through welfare adjustments if possible, while continuing to do our own trade deals with RoW.
I think that would satisfy a large majority of the 48% who voted remain, hopefully including scotland, and also most of those who voted leave. only those who had immigration as their number one issue might feel let down. but we only voted for brexit. we didn't get a list of tick boxes to say what we thought that meant.
this probably puts me close to what Boris was hinting at but i'm hoping may or leadsom would want to deliver this, although I'm not so sure about waiting til next year for A50.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
If you want a solution that avoids economic hardship you need to ignore the voters, yes. The question is out of my hands. I voted Remain.
I really worry about this country sometimes.
But what about sovereignty, the will of the people and the future of our democracy? Nah, I'd prefer a few lattes a week and a holiday in the med, ta.
Good grief we had better hope there is never conscription again....
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
A poll today in the Standard says a sizeable chunk of Leave voters have changed their mind, and that Remain would win a comfortable majority were the referendum rerun. Make of that what you will.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
A poll today in the Standard says a sizeable chunk of Leave voters have changed their mind, and that Remain would win a comfortable majority were the referendum rerun. Make of that what you will.
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
I find myself recognising a distinction between an inquiry (the sort of thing Ed Milliband calls for) and an enquiry (a question or serious of questions) but no distinction between to inquire and to enquire, both of which result in an enquiry (since an inquiry does not involve anyone inquiring).
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
A poll today in the Standard says a sizeable chunk of Leave voters have changed their mind, and that Remain would win a comfortable majority were the referendum rerun. Make of that what you will.
I have skimmed over the posts below and there have been a number of comments fearing that we have had a housing boom like "Ireland and Spain". Both of their booms were built on one key fact, they had a massive over supply of housing units. Therefore when exactly did we have a massive over supply of housing units? Answer, not in the past 40 or more years! Just take the example of Ireland. At one point in 2004-07 it was building 75,000 housing units a year for all its 4 million people. The UK in comparison, struggles to build 200,000 units for a population of over 60 million. We have 15 times the population and build at best 3 times what they were doing at their peak.... PS May we have a few thousand too many units at the top end? The answer is may be, but they could always be sold/rented to the many millions at the levels below. A drop in a massive ocean of demand.
"World + wife is talking about EFTA/EEA + FoM ..."
No disrespect to your wife, but how many of them talking about this actually have the faintest idea what they are talking about? There is for example a rather large differnece, especially in the UK context, between EFTA and the EEA, so to parcel the two up as EFTA/EEA is daft.
I was attempting to be concise, rather than to offend your sensibilities .
By the way, I think it was you that recommended the Accursed Kings last night. If so, thank you!
No problem, Mr. M. Good luck with the Accursed Kings, I hope you read them in order as that will maximise your enjoyment.
I presume, Mr Knox, that this is you in MAXIMUM IRONY mode
I suspect he's realising he is a Scouser (I'ts never their fault) and is having some kind of breakdown.
Not all scousers are Andy Burnham jellies. I for one voted leave and I am very glad I did. Vindicated by the latest chapter opened in Turkey accession negotiations and the other false prophecies (calais border moved, Scottish independence, etc. etc.)
Turkey will not join the EU in your or my lifetime.
Did we feel the same way about East Germany in 1974 ?
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
A poll today in the Standard says a sizeable chunk of Leave voters have changed their mind, and that Remain would win a comfortable majority were the referendum rerun. Make of that what you will.
"... for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth ..."
Well stop it. have a nice cup of tea, keep calm and carry on.
By the way, if you negotiate your book deals in the same way as you suggest the country should negotiate with the EU then you are considerably poorer than you should be.
LIKE!!!!
While one should always remember the alternate version of IF ...... If you can keep you head, while all about you/ Are losing theirs and blaming it on you ........ then you clearly have’t appreciated how serious the situation actually is!
However, we are not in a shooting war; we are almost certainly going to have to face from awkward times, and the world isn’t going to be how it was, but it’s highly unlikely that anyone else is going to die.
Well quite, Mr. Cole. There are three big lessons I have learned in my life, don't commit without a plan, things never look as bad in the morning, and hot, sweet tea is a sovereign remedy for anything bar a stomach wound.
Agree with the principles; many years ago I was taught that to fail to plan is to plan to fail. Not sure about the tea though; can’t stand the stuff!. Further, the sun is going to rise in the morning!
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
If you want a solution that avoids economic hardship you need to ignore the voters, yes. The question is out of my hands. I voted Remain.
Wrong then and wrong now. Since you don't respect the will of the voters perhaps I might suggest you don't bother voting in the future. Practice what you preach.
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
I find myself recognising a distinction between an inquiry (the sort of thing Ed Milliband calls for) and an enquiry (a question or serious of questions) but no distinction between to inquire and to enquire, both of which result in an enquiry (since an inquiry does not involve anyone inquiring).
Strictly speaking there is no difference between inquiry or enquiry and they can be used interchangeably. However, general usage does indeed confer a degree of formality on inquiry in the manner you suggest.
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
If you want a solution that avoids economic hardship you need to ignore the voters, yes. The question is out of my hands. I voted Remain.
There is no solution to 40 years of democracy-shafting, middle and lower class destroying transfer of wealth to a tiny unaccountable elite that 'avoids economic hardship'. They stopped listening or caring a long time ago. I voted Leave with passion knowing full well that it was a giant kick to the establishment's testicles and there would be a hissy fit of epic proportions. And I'm a wealthy AB voter. This was not a vote about economics or a short term decision. It was about who we are, who I can vote out of office if I don't like the way they rule my life and seeking to bring to an end a cosy system of power accumulation that I find dehumanising. IT WAS WELL WORTH IT.
Re house prices...seanT gets it, but I cannot believe the economic illiteracy of the others. Every recession we have is accompanied by house price falls. Negative equity is not a good thing for the economy. Banks restricting lending is not a good thing for the economy. People worried about their futures is not good for the economy. In fact a house price crash is a terrible thing for the economy.
Brexiters- can you really be this thick , aside from being nihilistic, reactionary and populist
Oh, by Britain's wealth you meant bricks and mortar.
London will be the most effected and the market is well up in recent years. It can afford a small decrease.
TheWhiteRabbit, London will be the most "effected", really?? For a gentleman of your level of overeducation
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
My big bugbear is the inquiry/enquiry one.
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
Agree with those, plus its and it's, and disinterested vs uninterested.
Oh, and the way here they almost always spell capitOl with an O, even if they shouldn't.
Another irritating thing, on the BBC World Service I notice in particular, is that when asked a question, the responder will frequently start the reply with the word "So, ..."
But, as I keep saying, this is not inevitable. The fecking Tories have to admit all this, and go for EEA immediately, and stop the madness. Confidence will return, and quickly, if investors, homebuyers, bankers, know that not much will change, at least at first, as we keep all our economic ties with the EU.
I am interested in how you feel joining the EEA will stop the slowing economies of our post-Brexit neighbours. Or why you feel there will be a drop in inward investment in the medium term given the number of commonwealth and other countries lining up over the last couple of days to make trade agreements with us. But mostly I am interested in why you think this will cause a larger drop in GDP than the entire Subprime Crisis and Lehman's crash ?
Because it is a unique combination of headwinds that we are facing. Falling confidence, political instability, property price crash, wobbly banks, recessiony neighbours, our main industry (fin services) potentially crippled, more turbulence in Scotland + Ulster, on and on and on.
We put a bomb under the economy and set it off. WHY DIDN'T ANYONE WARN US OF THIS???
grrrr. I'M TOTALLY HACKED OFF THAT NO ONE WARNED ME THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
Now if people will just listen to ME, I have the solution, a very quick move to EEA, sidestep the storm almost entirely. The Europeans will want this (whatever the Commission says), we want it, America wants, China wants, we all want stability as soon as possible. So just bloody do it.
We'll have to talk about Free Movement later, once we're in the EEA. As I said, immigration is going to plummet anyway, for the next two years or more.
I voted leave but don't want immigration controls to be the expense of the economy. So if FoM is the price for continued access to the single market then so be it. once everything has calmed down I'd like us to do more to discourage immigration through welfare adjustments if possible, while continuing to do our own trade deals with RoW.
I think that would satisfy a large majority of the 48% who voted remain, hopefully including scotland, and also most of those who voted leave. only those who had immigration as their number one issue might feel let down. but we only voted for brexit. we didn't get a list of tick boxes to say what we thought that meant.
this probably puts me close to what Boris was hinting at but i'm hoping may or leadsom would want to deliver this, although I'm not so sure about waiting til next year for A50.
It has to be May, for all these reasons we've discussed. And it has to be done quickly, very quickly.
And then she has to stand up and say: "we're moving to EEA. We will then address the problem of Free Movement, once we know how many people are coming, and how the economy is performing outside the EU. At present we expect a sharp drop in net migration, anyway".
That's a perfectly reasonable fudge, and all true. If it turns out in three years the economy can't survive without Free Movement, then fuck it. So be it. Everyone will have been terrified into servitude.
I think today you must be channelling the Spirit of The Somme....
I don't think I would want Sean in my trench. No backbone.
I suspect him of un-British lack of stiff upper lip and stoicism.
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Nah, you just need to give me a tot of navy rum, and I'm back to full fighting vigour, as anyone on here after 10pm would know.
Dutch courage is not courage though Sean. FFS chill out. ................ Is your squeeze denying you blowjobs over this or something?
Ah that's the problem. Could we start a petition, BJ4ST?
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
If you want a solution that avoids economic hardship you need to ignore the voters, yes. The question is out of my hands. I voted Remain.
Wrong then and wrong now. Since you don't respect the will of the voters perhaps I might suggest you don't bother voting in the future. Practice what you preach.
As I said, it's not a question for me, precisely because it seems I was right on this occasion. I respect whatever decision people make and people are allowed to change their minds. The consequence of them not changing their minds is hardship. That's their choice, if indeed they do choose to keep the best deal for Britain off the table.
Mr. T, my understanding was inquiry/enquiry are actually interchangeable, although it tends to be the former for an investigation and the latter for a question.
If May gets what she wants – which is a europhile as leader of the Labour Party, she'll be able to effect the SeanT/RichardN package without much strife, given that europhiles have a massive parliamentary majority and all four main parties would be led by europhiles.
Post referendum, the old definitions are becoming blurred.
As one of the small minority within the Labour Party favouring Leave, here in the Black Country what has struck me after the referendum result is the change in the political climate within Labour. That's as a result, I think, of the scale to which the vote went for the Leave campaign particularly in the areas of (former) council housing which are the more fragile Labour voting areas. The scale of that was the talk of those who did the tallying at the count. So there isn't much in the way of people agitating for a rerun of the vote, and there's recognition of the need to accept and be seen to accept some significant controls on EU migration. I imagine that the climate in London is very different, but just because a few idiots like Lammy advocate a politically suicidal course, it doesn't mean that the penny hasn't dropped in the regions.
The best thing that Labour can hope for now (apart from a change of leader) is that the issue of Europe and EU migration is resolved and falls rapidly down the political agenda, such that we get back to a political climate more akin to that of mid 2012.
There is zero chance of our EU friends agreeing to an EEA deal if it is seen as a temporary solution. Even if they were to agree to it, it would be an unmitigated disaster, for the very obvious reason that all it does is prolong the business uncertainty. You might as well simply delay triggering Article 50, it would have the same economic effect.
We aren't exactly in the good books right now - UKIP won the last Euro elections (Remember those ?)
Again, for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth (and I am, it's what I do), I am the only one here proposing solutions. Everyone else is either saying Brexit is Bad, and not much else, or just pretending all is fine - which it clearly fucking isn't.
Thank God for SeanT is all I can say. If he weren't proposing solutions we would be REALLY fucked.
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
Ignore the voters? That is labour party leadership material right there....
If you want a solution that avoids economic hardship you need to ignore the voters, yes. The question is out of my hands. I voted Remain.
There is no solution to 40 years of democracy-shafting, middle and lower class destroying transfer of wealth to a tiny unaccountable elite that 'avoids economic hardship'. They stopped listening or caring a long time ago. I voted Leave with passion knowing full well that it was a giant kick to the establishment's testicles and there would be a hissy fit of epic proportions. And I'm a wealthy AB voter. This was not a vote about economics or a short term decision. It was about who we are, who I can vote out of office if I don't like the way they rule my life and seeking to bring to an end a cosy system of power accumulation that I find dehumanising. IT WAS WELL WORTH IT.
Fine. That's an entirely valid point of view. Minimising hardship isn't your priority.
Comments
Only one thing to do: to be shot at dawn...
Everybody wants to trade, even the Frogs.
If immigration is still a problem, our politicians will have to do what they should have done in the first place - reform the freaking welfare system.
We've been like some ghastly decadent Romans for too long - toss a wodge of money to that client group over there, another to those over here. Time for a bit more financial discipline.
1 - Rubbish negotiation.
2 - Pretending it was great, insulting the voters' intelligence.
3 - Starting off with hyperbolic fear-mongering, diminishing credibility and ensuring people grew accustomed to/bored with Project Fear.
4 - Using 'Little England' as a pejorative term in a referendum with a 90% or so English electorate.
"... for all that I am flapping around like a headless chicken on crystal meth ..."
Well stop it. have a nice cup of tea, keep calm and carry on.
By the way, if you negotiate your book deals in the same way as you suggest the country should negotiate with the EU then you are considerably poorer than you should be.
Anyone know if @Roger is going to return? Totally disagreed with his position, but his articles were very good.
Yeah, I know Ukip will win 100 seats blah blah blah, except of course they won't, because that would mean they would need to find 100 decent candidates who wouldn't say something racist and horrific within a few days of becoming a PPC. Odds of that happening: longer than those of Article 50 never being invoked.
So May, and EEA+ECHR+FOM+EFTA+any other Es you can think of, happy days. But we'll very soon wonder why we ever bothered with all this pointless Brexit shite for nothing, no discernible change for the man on the Mansfield omnibus.
https://twitter.com/simonneville/status/748880544415354880
I'm going to a traditional Hungarian wedding in Budapest in a couple of weeks. One of the traditions is that guests line up to put envelopes on a tray with a wedding gift, and the bride dances a few steps with you in return. I was told to make it £s as that's hard currency, but now they've said that on reflection forints will be fine!
"World + wife is talking about EFTA/EEA + FoM ..."
No disrespect to your wife, but how many of them talking about this actually have the faintest idea what they are talking about? There is for example a rather large differnece, especially in the UK context, between EFTA and the EEA, so to parcel the two up as EFTA/EEA is daft.
Whisper it, but perhaps the markets LIKE Brexit. Why? because it represents a chance to get rid of that giant brake against better economic growth just about everywhere - the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/36672926
Basically, rain probable for qualifying, maybe light showers for the race.
While one should always remember the alternate version of IF ...... If you can keep you head, while all about you/ Are losing theirs and blaming it on you ........ then you clearly have’t appreciated how serious the situation actually is!
However, we are not in a shooting war; we are almost certainly going to have to face from awkward times, and the world isn’t going to be how it was, but it’s highly unlikely that anyone else is going to die.
http://order-order.com/2016/07/01/labour-mp-people-coloured-skin-people-run-takeaways/
http://order-order.com/2016/07/01/labour-mp-people-coloured-skin-people-run-takeaways/
“Well in terms of numbers it’s not an issue. I mean the only people who have coloured skin, if you like, are people who run takeaways.”
Uh oh.
.... I'll get my (lab) coat....
I think they could try having a candidate and an interesting platform, plus some inclusive offers as suggested by Southam. Just a thought.
I had a DoS at Cambridge who looked like a little bit of her died inside every time she saw one of two mistakes: effected/affected and practice/practise. She had tolerant disdain of any other slip. But those two brought out a deadened look in her eyes that I can only describe as "whatever is the world coming to - I want to get off, preferably 50 years ago."
The problem I have is that the solution is staring us in the face: full membership of the EU. We don't HAVE to be so obstinate. We could say, OK we miscalculated. We all do that more often we would like. So at least put membership back on the table. But that is a question for Leavers. If a proportion think, yeah there is something in that, it will happen. But if they don't it's Plan B, to the extent you can call it a plan, along with the consequent unemployment and other fallout.
(oh God! Now I have Bad Touch stuck in my head. Great song but I need to work)
London will of course begin to manifest a distinct behavioural phenomenon derived from its subjective emotions.
Oh, wait, wrong again...
Let me have a third go
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lynch-will-accept-fbi-recommendations-clinton-e-mails-report-n602351
By the way, I think it was you that recommended the Accursed Kings last night. If so, thank you!
I voted leave but don't want immigration controls to be the expense of the economy. So if FoM is the price for continued access to the single market then so be it. once everything has calmed down I'd like us to do more to discourage immigration through welfare adjustments if possible, while continuing to do our own trade deals with RoW.
I think that would satisfy a large majority of the 48% who voted remain, hopefully including scotland, and also most of those who voted leave. only those who had immigration as their number one issue might feel let down. but we only voted for brexit. we didn't get a list of tick boxes to say what we thought that meant.
this probably puts me close to what Boris was hinting at but i'm hoping may or leadsom would want to deliver this, although I'm not so sure about waiting til next year for A50.
But what about sovereignty, the will of the people and the future of our democracy?
Nah, I'd prefer a few lattes a week and a holiday in the med, ta.
Good grief we had better hope there is never conscription again....
Then, for UK vs US English, it is the use of 'momentarily'. "The plane will be landing momentarily" "Well, I hope it lands long enough for me to get off."
@GMBClodagh: Labour source: Owen Smith expected to announce challenge by Tues or Weds @GMB #LabourCoup
Just take the example of Ireland. At one point in 2004-07 it was building 75,000 housing units a year for all its 4 million people. The UK in comparison, struggles to build 200,000 units for a population of over 60 million. We have 15 times the population and build at best 3 times what they were doing at their peak....
PS May we have a few thousand too many units at the top end? The answer is may be, but they could always be sold/rented to the many millions at the levels below. A drop in a massive ocean of demand.
Further, the sun is going to rise in the morning!
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-is-merkel-to-blame-a-1100303.html#js-article-comments-box-pager
Favourite quote:
It would take a very special relationship to reality to read in the British vote a mandate to further weaken national parliaments.
Oh, and the way here they almost always spell capitOl with an O, even if they shouldn't.
Another irritating thing, on the BBC World Service I notice in particular, is that when asked a question, the responder will frequently start the reply with the word "So, ..."
Clinton 54 .. Trump 31
http://files.ctctcdn.com/9c83fb30501/2826b434-e79b-4f89-86ef-413572ec816d.pdf
So about TM4PM ...
As one of the small minority within the Labour Party favouring Leave, here in the Black Country what has struck me after the referendum result is the change in the political climate within Labour. That's as a result, I think, of the scale to which the vote went for the Leave campaign particularly in the areas of (former) council housing which are the more fragile Labour voting areas. The scale of that was the talk of those who did the tallying at the count. So there isn't much in the way of people agitating for a rerun of the vote, and there's recognition of the need to accept and be seen to accept some significant controls on EU migration. I imagine that the climate in London is very different, but just because a few idiots like Lammy advocate a politically suicidal course, it doesn't mean that the penny hasn't dropped in the regions.
The best thing that Labour can hope for now (apart from a change of leader) is that the issue of Europe and EU migration is resolved and falls rapidly down the political agenda, such that we get back to a political climate more akin to that of mid 2012.