I have heard it said that May is very able and hardworking - she has managed to hold down the home office brief which is often a political graveyard after all.
I dont for a minute believe that she was any more a remainer than Corbyn. Like him she just towed that line and kept a very low profile
It is always possible that Ms May was a genuine 'Don't know'. If one can't find a way to form an opinion with certainty, it's best to stay out of the fray, I'd think.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
I'm not trying to make a debating point simply to note that knowing people who are so significantly and negatively hit by the BREXIT gives one pause for thought.
The decision is made and for good or ill the nation and individuals will have to come to terms with it.
Hopefully it won't get as bad as the three million people thrown on the scrap heap in 1980/1981 by "The Blessed Margaret" and her 1979 general election win.
Of the deaths that occured after the country voted give a landslide to a power mad neocon in 2001...
Do you think anyone will actually invoke Article 50 in the end? The way it's being talked up as almost akin to pushing the "red button" I've got my doubts anyone will actually do it in the end...
I'm not trying to make a debating point simply to note that knowing people who are so significantly and negatively hit by the BREXIT gives one pause for thought.
The decision is made and for good or ill the nation and individuals will have to come to terms with it.
Corbyn is doing *what* ? I think their is a technical term for Leaders who ignore constitutional norms and procedures and address mobs of their supporters to draw strength from. I can't quite remember what it is. Fasc..... something ?
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
to all who on INDEPENDENCE DAY voted to leave the EU in what would have been your last ever effective vote unless the Leave vote won. We voted for a new UK - a new way forward of Hope and self-determination where we decide our own future and initiatives and place in the world. Discussion on new possibilities are now open as never before for 70 years.
NOW is the time to get all - including those who voted Remain - to join into new possibilities. They must be shown how they were misled. I was present in Millbank Tower when Brexit / Leave / Lexit ('Left'Exit) celebrated with the rest of the UK as Victory became clear. There as everywhere it is clear WHAT HAPPENS NOW is not the perogative of any one particular group but the property of The People - in a new debate of possibilities.
We voted for UK independence from the EU and so blocked the dark forces which are trying to imprison us all in the anti-democratic EU which robs us, stifles initiative, impoverishes us all economically, and seeks to de-industrialize, privatize and asset-strip the UK and its welfare services such as the NHS.
EVERYBODY who voted Leave played a vital part and overcame an incredible international hurricane of misinformation, Lies, brainwashing and innuendo around items such as about: immediate economic recession, World War3, ....
DESPITE all those things the establishment was defeated YET STILL THEY ARE IN DENIAL AND TAKE US ALL FOR STUPID. THEY ARE TRYING TO DELAY IMPLEMENTING AND REVERSE THE REFERENDUM AND PREVENT NEW FUTURES BECOMING POSSIBLE.
They will stop at no diversion or trick to impede democrcay. We have to resist them at every turn....
@jameskirkup: Tory consensus settling on some form of Norway/EEA Brexit. Get ready for Tory vs Ukip election; Labour is roadkill. https://t.co/NzlAsPfqea
Unless the economy collapses, and then the pro-EU Labs and Libs could win a majority.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN - en election (not a recession).
If the voters then go for IN or OUt then so be it, and let's crack on
Do you imagine for one moment that, had Remain won by a similar margin, it would have been considered necessary to back up that decision with a General Election? After all, some 48.5% would have disagreed with government policy.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
I love Jezza... Just totally ignoring the PLP and seeking solidarity and support with "his" people after sabotaging the Labour Leave campaign from the inside and almost certainly voting LEAVE himself last week!
FPT @rcs1000 google play services eating battery is one of several things - main thing to note: All google apps synch via the play service for some reason
What happens is you have an email (for example) that gets stuck or the service dislikes or times out for whatever reason. Or you have a malformed calendar entry Or contact Or more likely a google doc that is broken/corrupt or always being refreshed is set to sync to your phone.
I've had the email issue often enough that i gave up & I use k9 mail (nb no exchange support) I've also had the reoccurring delete google doc which is nasty to lose you data quota.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
I realise that I am not the first to declare buyers remorse but here goes. I was unmoved by being on the same side as Nigel Farage, George Galloway and Vladimir Putin, noting that Anjem Choudrey, Gerry Adams and Adolph Hitler were on the other side. But Jeremy Corbyn? A bridge too far and I now admit that I was wrong.
I'm not trying to make a debating point simply to note that knowing people who are so significantly and negatively hit by the BREXIT gives one pause for thought.
The decision is made and for good or ill the nation and individuals will have to come to terms with it.
jack Ive been through what your friend has been through and its soul destroying watching years of work go down the Swannee
but in part thats what the EUref has been about, it;s to kick a disconnected political and business leadership to do their fking job for the people of this country and stop putting their own narrow inetrests first.
I'm not trying to make a debating point simply to note that knowing people who are so significantly and negatively hit by the BREXIT gives one pause for thought.
The decision is made and for good or ill the nation and individuals will have to come to terms with it.
jack Ive been through what your friend has been through and its soul destroying watching years of work go down the Swannee
but in part thats what the EUref has been about, it;s to kick a disconnected political and business leadership to do their fking job for the people of this country and stop putting their own narrow inetrests first.
Harsh but fair words that only an Ulsterman would dare speak.
I realise that I am not the first to declare buyers remorse but here goes. I was unmoved by being on the same side as Nigel Farage, George Galloway and Vladimir Putin, noting that Anjem Choudrey, Gerry Adams and Alolph Hitler were on the other side. But Jeremy Corbyn? A bridge too far and I now admit that I was wrong.
Corbyn tweeted on Thursday he had just voted for Remain - Chris Bryant claims otherwise.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
I have heard it said that May is very able and hardworking - she has managed to hold down the home office brief which is often a political graveyard after all.
I dont for a minute believe that she was any more a remainer than Corbyn. Like him she just towed that line and kept a very low profile
It is always possible that Ms May was a genuine 'Don't know'. If one can't find a way to form an opinion with certainty, it's best to stay out of the fray, I'd think.
Yes, indeed. Being a 'Don't know" on the most important constitutional change for a half-century or more is hardly the hallmark of a great political leader, and certainly not of one charged with navigating that constitutional change. As you say, best she stay out of the fray.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
David, Agree and banks are not a penny worse off than they were last Friday so it seems its just panic by these absolute morons on huge salaries.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
They have got the flags out at Housepricecrash:
"Elated. Excited. Some trepidation. Hell, we need some excitement. Change requires destruction. Re-ordering. Re-balancing. Re-building. There will be winners and losers. They won't necessarily all be the same people as today. It won't be easy and not without some pain. It won't be a straight path. There will be mistakes. It won't be quick. We're talking decades here.
This is a part of the overall story of the 1970's monetary changes, the global moderation of calm and unity, the building of wealth and debt, the eventual financial crisis and the suppression of its effects that made things worse for some whilst those whose fault it was, got even better off. It's a Depression story evolving."
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
David, Agree and banks are not a penny worse off than they were last Friday so it seems its just panic by these absolute morons on huge salaries.
Mike's piece is exactly on point. The traders make money when there is movement and transactions, who wins and who loses is really not the point.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
David, Agree and banks are not a penny worse off than they were last Friday so it seems its just panic by these absolute morons on huge salaries.
I've got a bit of spare money waiting to invest actually. You think now might be the time to BUY?
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Malcolm Turnbull is calling for new arrangements on immigration as well as trade. How do the immigration possibilities look from an Oz and NZ point of view? It could be that a lot of Brits would move to those countries if they were given back the right to.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Malcolm Turnbull is calling for new arrangements on immigration as well as trade. How do the immigration possibilities look from an Oz and NZ point of view? It could be that a lot of Brits would move to those countries if they were given back the right to.
A return to 10-pound Poms?
Australia looks a better bet than the UK long term for people dreaming of the 'Anglosphere'.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
David, Agree and banks are not a penny worse off than they were last Friday so it seems its just panic by these absolute morons on huge salaries.
I've got a bit of spare money waiting to invest actually. You think now might be the time to BUY?
I think the official answer is that I am not regulated to give financial advice. But yes.
GIN1138 - Much as I disagree with much of what Liam Fox says he was correct in his timetable assessment linked to EU Jan-Dec budgets. I expect A50 by end of the year at the very latest.
Scrapheap_as_was. Thanks. Little steps literally and fuguratively
Half of the population have less than average intelligence and there is a long tail. That's exactly the point of democracy. Even thick people get a vote.
On a far more serious note fellow PBers may recall that several months ago I advised that a small company my family had personal but not financial associations with for decades was struggling with retaining and bidding for contracts from European firms because of uncertainty caused by the referendum. Investment and job security was at stake including two new apprenticeships and the possibility of an exit from the UK was being researched.
I regret to say that uncertainty and the BREXIT vote will result in all bar four staff of the firm losing their jobs. The company is executing its plan to move within the EU.
Real people with mortgages and families to support and now with real redundancies to contend with.
Very sad for those involved, sadly the tip of the iceberg.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
David, Agree and banks are not a penny worse off than they were last Friday so it seems its just panic by these absolute morons on huge salaries.
I've got a bit of spare money waiting to invest actually. You think now might be the time to BUY?
I think the official answer is that I am not regulated to give financial advice. But yes.
On a far more serious note fellow PBers may recall that several months ago I advised that a small company my family had personal but not financial associations with for decades was struggling with retaining and bidding for contracts from European firms because of uncertainty caused by the referendum. Investment and job security was at stake including two new apprenticeships and the possibility of an exit from the UK was being researched.
I regret to say that uncertainty and the BREXIT vote will result in all bar four staff of the firm losing their jobs. The company is executing its plan to move within the EU.
Real people with mortgages and families to support and now with real redundancies to contend with.
Very sad for those involved, sadly the tip of the iceberg.
Very sad. As was the decimation of the British fishing industry of course.
GIN1138 - Much as I disagree with much of what Liam Fox says he was correct in his timetable assessment linked to EU Jan-Dec budgets. I expect A50 by end of the year at the very latest.
Scrapheap_as_was. Thanks. Little steps literally and fuguratively
Well it is an interesting question as to why the UK would agree a budget for next year to which we would once again be net contributories. I think the budget from the previous year remains in place in that scenario but there would certainly be no increase if we are being asked to chip in.
On a far more serious note fellow PBers may recall that several months ago I advised that a small company my family had personal but not financial associations with for decades was struggling with retaining and bidding for contracts from European firms because of uncertainty caused by the referendum. Investment and job security was at stake including two new apprenticeships and the possibility of an exit from the UK was being researched.
I regret to say that uncertainty and the BREXIT vote will result in all bar four staff of the firm losing their jobs. The company is executing its plan to move within the EU.
Real people with mortgages and families to support and now with real redundancies to contend with.
But apparently if I empathise with people like this - and I have friends and family in a similar situation - I am mewling and bleating, and should get a grip.
I don't mind the insults - I dish out far worse. It does surprise me how flinty and unfeeling some pb-ers can be. But maybe parenthood has just made me soppy.
Not at all Sean.
You were perfectly entitled to your position that you robustly defended, despite the odd wobble and have no reason whatsoever to rebuke yourself. My point was simply that at times we forget that in the heat of battle normal folk and their lives are often forgotten amid the welter of claim and counter claim.
The head of this family firm, who I have known since he was a new born, was in tears as he recounted to me the scenes as he explained to his long serving staff their desperate situation. It was traumatic.
I feel for the human beings in this awful situation - just as I have felt sorry for those who have found themselves in similar positions in the last 40-odd years of following politics.
I am sorry if my own vote to leave has contributed to the sorry plight of these innocent people. However, I could not vote for remain. Mrs D is Greek, and I have heard equally sad stories about Greece. (And none of the stereotypes about Greeks, please, dear reader. I am talking about honest, tax-paying, fair minded people being ruined).
Half of the population have less than average intelligence and there is a long tail. That's exactly the point of democracy. Even thick people get a vote.
Even the likes of Kay Burley and Jeremy Corbyn....
Someone else said that Ghana are following. Any word on Canada.
The Annual Commonwealth conference could become quite an important event in the UK political calendar.
Save the groat! And the pound mass is officially defined as 0.45359237 kilograms. Outrageous what they have been able to get away with without asking for consent. Everything's in metres nowadays. Bloody disgrace. Enoch, he had the right idea. Him and Alf Garnett.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Politico Daily Seamus Milne has been turned away from PLP meeting "its too full"
I suspect we've a lot about Seamus Milne and his role in this yet to the hear. His name is all over the coded stuff coming from Labour MP's criticising " the Leaders office " role in sabotaging the Labour In campaign. Given his background of Soviet and Putin apologism you have to ask whether he was trying to throw the EU Referendum. Given Corbyn is ( a ) a genuine Lexiter ( b ) thick he'll have been easy to manipulate for Milne.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
That swiftboating campaign where the guy who had been given a medal for his bravery was somehow the villain of the piece and the guy who had hidden in the Texas reserves with absolutely no chance of an overseas posting was the patriot was the weirdest thing I have seen in politics. Far, far weirder than Trump. It was 1984 writ large.
Half of the population have less than average intelligence and there is a long tail. That's exactly the point of democracy. Even thick people get a vote.
Even the likes of Kay Burley and Jeremy Corbyn....
This reminds me of something. Electoral law question. My father was in hospital, presenting with early dementia during the referendum campaign. He is long registered for a postal vote to I dutifully took the ballot paper in to him. But asking him later what had happened to it he couldn't remember. The ballot paper was nowhere to be found. He may might have voted and given it to ward staff to post and forgotten. Or there may have been some nefariousness on the part of ward staff. Lot's of old people with legal capacity but not quite with-it there.
Is it possible to check if a vote was actually cast?
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees probably won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by new EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
The fact that there would be adverse consequences in the short term was well advertised and accepted (see Charles' posts on here). I see no reason to run around panicking in best Corporal Jones fashion.
Adverse economic consequences are one thing, but I have a feeling that most Leavers didn't really consider the adverse political consequences.
What adverse political consequences, Mr. Glenn? Surely not that Cameron has gone (and soon I hope his sidekick will follow him) or that Labour is falling apart. Inconvenient in that the process of government has to go on, but the summer recess is coming up and I am sure it will all be sorted by the autumn.
Scotland gearing up for Independence might be regarded as adverse by some, but it has been clear for a long time that the union is broken beyond repair. I had hoped they go in 2014. So if Scotland want to go and use the exit from the UK as a pretext then that is fine by me.
You correctly identified this as a revolution, which is so far not under any control.
There is no way of predicting where things will end up, and if we do go through with Brexit, there is no telling which forces will end up in power in whatever is left of the UK. The genie has been let out of the bottle.
You might be correct in your conclusion, Mr. Glenn. I am pleased that you agree with me that we are in the midst of a revolution.
Of course it will be a very British revolution, so I don't expect to find politicians hanging from lampposts. There may be some sharp notes to the Times and a lot of guff on the Internet, but it will work itself out. Who knows you and I might both like the end result.
History of revolutions would suggest:
1. Period of chaos where no-one appears to be in charge, 2. Splits emerge between more radical and more pragmatic revolutionaries, 3. A strongman emerges, 4. if the strongman is from the pragmatic side, he imprisons (or worse) the leading radicals, 5. If the strongman is from the radical side, people even more radical emerge in opposition. Go to step 4. 6. With the radicals dead or in jail, the attraction of opposing the strongman declines rapidly 7. Things settle down to the point where it is difficult to tell the difference between the new regime and the old 8. If you are lucky, in time some of the seeds sown during the revolution turn into positive changes. If you are not so lucky, nothing really changes. Or there is another revolution.
Things are moving so fast, last here about 6 hours ago and nearly 2000 posts since then. It is literally impossible to keep up to date with whats happening in politics right now.
Still, Italy were 3-1 before the game, so that bits looking good. Really ridiculous odds.
This reminds me of something. Electoral law question. My father was in hospital, presenting with early dementia during the referendum campaign. He is long registered for a postal vote to I dutifully took the ballot paper in to him. But asking him later what had happened to it he couldn't remember. The ballot paper was nowhere to be found. He may might have voted and given it to ward staff to post and forgotten. Or there may have been some nefariousness on the part of ward staff. Lot's of old people with legal capacity but not quite with-it there.
Is it possible to check if a vote was actually cast?
Yes. When they are ready ask to see the " Marked Registers " at your Local Authority.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 2m2 minutes ago Paul Waugh Retweeted Tamara Cohen MP already joking that Burgon was too right wing for his old job. "Lenin is now Shadow City minister"
Disraeli - As I indicated to SeanT downthread my comments are not a censure or rebuke to those who voted LEAVE. You have an absolute right to that position.
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
Unfortunately to meet the new immigration targets as required by the Leave electorate student visas are to be heavily curtailed.
Half of the population have less than average intelligence and there is a long tail. That's exactly the point of democracy. Even thick people get a vote.
I have friends with learning difficulties and I have been wondering (a) whether their residential homes register them to vote and (b) how they set about explaining to the residents their choices. (But I don't like to ask in case I really, really would prefer not to know the answer.)
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees probably won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by new EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
Except their fees might go up. Right wingers like Boris and his forthcoming cabinet of the likes of John Redwood will set unis free to set their own levels. You can say that was nothing to do with the vote, but A has led to B.
I heard today on the radio that apparently Alan Johnson was leader of the Labour In campaign. I know I didn't watch every debate or news bulletin but this is the first I knew of it. (edited for spelling)
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees probably won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by new EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
Except their fees might go up. Right wingers like Boris and his forthcoming cabinet of the likes of John Redwood will set unis free to set their own levels. You can say that was nothing to do with the vote, but A has led to B.
In reality, fees will be going up regardless (unless we get Jezza as PM). They don't cover the cost of provision in certain subjects, especially at top unis e.g. Chemistry costs a unis well in excess of £10k a year to put on.
1. Period of chaos where no-one appears to be in charge, 2. Splits emerge between more radical and more pragmatic revolutionaries, 3. A strongman emerges, 4. if the strongman is from the pragmatic side, he imprisons (or worse) the leading radicals, 5. If the strongman is from the radical side, people even more radical emerge in opposition. Go to step 4. 6. With the radicals dead or in jail, the attraction of opposing the strongman declines rapidly 7. Things settle down to the point where it is difficult to tell the difference between the new regime and the old 8. If you are lucky, in time some of the seeds sown during the revolution turn into positive changes. If you are not so lucky, nothing really changes. Or there is another revolution.
1688.
However, if you feel we are not in the midst of a revolution carry on. If you think that we are shortly to see people imprisoned for their political views I recommend you seek therapy.
I heard today on the radio that appearently Alan Johnson was leader of the Labour In campaign. I know I didnt't watch every debate or news bulletin but this is the first I knew of it.
The only person even less visible was Stuart Rose.
UK students will also have to pay international rates at EU universities post Brexit instead of being treated as ' Home ' students. Unless Boris waves his magic one way wand on that as well.
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
1. Period of chaos where no-one appears to be in charge, 2. Splits emerge between more radical and more pragmatic revolutionaries, 3. A strongman emerges, 4. if the strongman is from the pragmatic side, he imprisons (or worse) the leading radicals, 5. If the strongman is from the radical side, people even more radical emerge in opposition. Go to step 4. 6. With the radicals dead or in jail, the attraction of opposing the strongman declines rapidly 7. Things settle down to the point where it is difficult to tell the difference between the new regime and the old 8. If you are lucky, in time some of the seeds sown during the revolution turn into positive changes. If you are not so lucky, nothing really changes. Or there is another revolution.
1688.
However, if you feel we are not in the midst of a revolution carry on. If you think that we are shortly to see people imprisoned for their political views I recommend you seek therapy.
You mean a phone call to Nicola and ask her to take over?
Sounds very sensible, she can take Swinney with her to salvage the economy.
Mark Wallace The '22 Executive has rejected any changes to the Conservative leadership election rules, and wants a swift process https://t.co/CIVE4OmpP7
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Someone else said that Ghana are following. Any word on Canada.
The Annual Commonwealth conference could become quite an important event in the UK political calendar.
Chocolate and, umm, what do we even get from Australia?
Anyway, chocolate is all you need.
At one point we used to get quite a lot of stuff from Australia, but EU tariffs didn't exactly help with wanting to trade with us.
You can buy Kangaroo steaks at Aldi (and jolly nice they are to) plus of course Australian wines sell well. The fact that I can buy better quality wines from Oz and NZ than I can from the EU for the same price, rather gives the lie to this we must be a member of the single market schtick.
I heard today on the radio that appearently Alan Johnson was leader of the Labour In campaign. I know I didnt't watch every debate or news bulletin but this is the first I knew of it.
The only person even less visible was Stuart Rose.
I think the best thing out of Brexit so far is Will Straw was on the losing side. A nasty piece of work.
The fact that I can buy better quality wines from Oz and NZ than I can from the EU for the same price, rather gives the lie to this we must be a member of the single market schtick.
Your argument would be better served by a less subjective example.
1. Period of chaos where no-one appears to be in charge, 2. Splits emerge between more radical and more pragmatic revolutionaries, 3. A strongman emerges, 4. if the strongman is from the pragmatic side, he imprisons (or worse) the leading radicals, 5. If the strongman is from the radical side, people even more radical emerge in opposition. Go to step 4. 6. With the radicals dead or in jail, the attraction of opposing the strongman declines rapidly 7. Things settle down to the point where it is difficult to tell the difference between the new regime and the old 8. If you are lucky, in time some of the seeds sown during the revolution turn into positive changes. If you are not so lucky, nothing really changes. Or there is another revolution.
1688.
However, if you feel we are not in the midst of a revolution carry on. If you think that we are shortly to see people imprisoned for their political views I recommend you seek therapy.
You mean a phone call to Nicola and ask her to take over?
Sounds very sensible, she can take Swinney with her to salvage the economy.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Things are moving so fast, last here about 6 hours ago and nearly 2000 posts since then. It is literally impossible to keep up to date with whats happening in politics right now.
Still, Italy were 3-1 before the game, so that bits looking good. Really ridiculous odds.
Italy look to have run for a 90 minute game. If Spain get an equaliser, Italy are going to look dead on their feet before 30 minutes of extra time are out.
Michael Fabricant And so it begins. The PM of Australia announces that he has spoken with the PM of New Zealand to be the1st with a trade deal with the UK
Someone else said that Ghana are following. Any word on Canada.
The Annual Commonwealth conference could become quite an important event in the UK political calendar.
Chocolate and, umm, what do we even get from Australia?
Anyway, chocolate is all you need.
At one point we used to get quite a lot of stuff from Australia, but EU tariffs didn't exactly help with wanting to trade with us.
You can buy Kangaroo steaks at Aldi (and jolly nice they are to) plus of course Australian wines sell well. The fact that I can buy better quality wines from Oz and NZ than I can from the EU for the same price, rather gives the lie to this we must be a member of the single market schtick.
Why bother with any of those when Chile does better wine for a third the price?
1. Period of chaos where no-one appears to be in charge, 2. Splits emerge between more radical and more pragmatic revolutionaries, 3. A strongman emerges, 4. if the strongman is from the pragmatic side, he imprisons (or worse) the leading radicals, 5. If the strongman is from the radical side, people even more radical emerge in opposition. Go to step 4. 6. With the radicals dead or in jail, the attraction of opposing the strongman declines rapidly 7. Things settle down to the point where it is difficult to tell the difference between the new regime and the old 8. If you are lucky, in time some of the seeds sown during the revolution turn into positive changes. If you are not so lucky, nothing really changes. Or there is another revolution.
1688.
However, if you feel we are not in the midst of a revolution carry on. If you think that we are shortly to see people imprisoned for their political views I recommend you seek therapy.
You mean a phone call to Nicola and ask her to take over?
Sounds very sensible, she can take Swinney with her to salvage the economy.
Didn't know Nicola was Dutch.
Clegg is though (partly).
Hmmm, how can we get my idea of a cross-party government under his leadership off the ground?
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees probably won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by new EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
Except their fees might go up. Right wingers like Boris and his forthcoming cabinet of the likes of John Redwood will set unis free to set their own levels. You can say that was nothing to do with the vote, but A has led to B.
In reality, fees will be going up regardless (unless we get Jezza as PM). They don't cover the cost of provision in certain subjects, especially at top unis e.g. Chemistry costs a unis well in excess of £10k a year to put on.
which is sad as they mostly drift in to accountancy
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
Universities admit too many students. There is no way that our economy justifies the level of university level education that our educational system encourages.
Things are moving so fast, last here about 6 hours ago and nearly 2000 posts since then. It is literally impossible to keep up to date with whats happening in politics right now.
Still, Italy were 3-1 before the game, so that bits looking good. Really ridiculous odds.
Italy look to have run for a 90 minute game. If Spain get an equaliser, Italy are going to look dead on their feet before 30 minutes of extra time are out.
Comments
Of the deaths that occured after the country voted give a landslide to a power mad neocon in 2001...
Do you think anyone will actually invoke Article 50 in the end? The way it's being talked up as almost akin to pushing the "red button" I've got my doubts anyone will actually do it in the end...
Positive to have you back at least!
WELCOME! WELL DONE
to all who on INDEPENDENCE DAY voted to leave the EU in what would have been your last ever effective vote unless the Leave vote won. We voted for a new UK - a new way forward of Hope and self-determination where we decide our own future and initiatives and place in the world. Discussion on new possibilities are now open as never before for 70 years.
NOW is the time to get all - including those who voted Remain - to join into new possibilities. They must be shown how they were misled. I was present in Millbank Tower when Brexit / Leave / Lexit ('Left'Exit) celebrated with the rest of the UK as Victory became clear. There as everywhere it is clear WHAT HAPPENS NOW is not the perogative of any one particular group but the property of The People - in a new debate of possibilities.
We voted for UK independence from the EU and so blocked the dark forces which are trying to imprison us all in the anti-democratic EU which robs us, stifles initiative, impoverishes us all economically, and seeks to de-industrialize, privatize and asset-strip the UK and its welfare services such as the NHS.
EVERYBODY who voted Leave played a vital part and overcame an incredible international hurricane of misinformation, Lies, brainwashing and innuendo around items such as about: immediate economic recession, World War3, ....
DESPITE all those things the establishment was defeated YET STILL THEY ARE IN DENIAL AND TAKE US ALL FOR STUPID. THEY ARE TRYING TO DELAY IMPLEMENTING AND REVERSE THE REFERENDUM AND PREVENT NEW FUTURES BECOMING POSSIBLE.
They will stop at no diversion or trick to impede democrcay.
We have to resist them at every turn....
http://www.weatheraction.com/
Our subsidy-accustomed farmers must be bricking it.
< Rejoice Rejoice.
Someone else said that Ghana are following. Any word on Canada.
The Annual Commonwealth conference could become quite an important event in the UK political calendar.
You couldn't make it up.
You stick to your guns Jezza!
What happens is you have an email (for example) that gets stuck or the service dislikes or times out for whatever reason.
Or you have a malformed calendar entry
Or contact
Or more likely a google doc that is broken/corrupt or always being refreshed is set to sync to your phone.
I've had the email issue often enough that i gave up & I use k9 mail (nb no exchange support) I've also had the reoccurring delete google doc which is nasty to lose you data quota.
but in part thats what the EUref has been about, it;s to kick a disconnected political and business leadership to do their fking job for the people of this country and stop putting their own narrow inetrests first.
Whom to believe?
Yes, indeed. Being a 'Don't know" on the most important constitutional change for a half-century or more is hardly the hallmark of a great political leader, and certainly not of one charged with navigating that constitutional change. As you say, best she stay out of the fray.
Dr Wellings said Europe could see something similar to the collapse of the communist movement "but where the West loses".
Dr Wellings said Brexit would also have a significant impact on of Australian trade, with neither the EU nor the UK as attractive without the other.
A this is supposed to make me feel better how exactly?
"Elated. Excited. Some trepidation. Hell, we need some excitement. Change requires destruction. Re-ordering. Re-balancing. Re-building. There will be winners and losers. They won't necessarily all be the same people as today. It won't be easy and not without some pain. It won't be a straight path. There will be mistakes. It won't be quick. We're talking decades here.
This is a part of the overall story of the 1970's monetary changes, the global moderation of calm and unity, the building of wealth and debt, the eventual financial crisis and the suppression of its effects that made things worse for some whilst those whose fault it was, got even better off. It's a Depression story evolving."
Buy housebuilders !
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/747476426614509568
https://twitter.com/GaryTomWilliams/status/747406036420657152
I mean really.....
Australia looks a better bet than the UK long term for people dreaming of the 'Anglosphere'.
Seamus Milne has been turned away from PLP meeting "its too full"
Scrapheap_as_was. Thanks. Little steps literally and fuguratively
I am sorry if my own vote to leave has contributed to the sorry plight of these innocent people. However, I could not vote for remain. Mrs D is Greek, and I have heard equally sad stories about Greece. (And none of the stereotypes about Greeks, please, dear reader. I am talking about honest, tax-paying, fair minded people being ruined).
Sweet FA, which I think is why the point is being made.
Anyway, chocolate is all you need.
https://twitter.com/sarhangg/status/747479621692723200
Is it possible to check if a vote was actually cast?
1. Period of chaos where no-one appears to be in charge,
2. Splits emerge between more radical and more pragmatic revolutionaries,
3. A strongman emerges,
4. if the strongman is from the pragmatic side, he imprisons (or worse) the leading radicals,
5. If the strongman is from the radical side, people even more radical emerge in opposition. Go to step 4.
6. With the radicals dead or in jail, the attraction of opposing the strongman declines rapidly
7. Things settle down to the point where it is difficult to tell the difference between the new regime and the old
8. If you are lucky, in time some of the seeds sown during the revolution turn into positive changes. If you are not so lucky, nothing really changes. Or there is another revolution.
Still, Italy were 3-1 before the game, so that bits looking good. Really ridiculous odds.
Paul Waugh Retweeted Tamara Cohen
MP already joking that Burgon was too right wing for his old job. "Lenin is now Shadow City minister"
Free movement with countries that have much lower wages and welfare provision is only ever going to end in tears for both countries.
(edited for spelling)
https://youtu.be/jgonBt1oa9Y.
However, if you feel we are not in the midst of a revolution carry on. If you think that we are shortly to see people imprisoned for their political views I recommend you seek therapy.
Wow.
SDP II must be inevitable now.
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
Sounds very sensible, she can take Swinney with her to salvage the economy.
The '22 Executive has rejected any changes to the Conservative leadership election rules, and wants a swift process https://t.co/CIVE4OmpP7
Hmmm, how can we get my idea of a cross-party government under his leadership off the ground?
They are simply the best at running down a clock.