Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
My dad reckons they will stop building houses because no one will be able to get a mortgage and house prices will fall. But it is tempting to think that the immigration tap might be turned off too. Personally I think that would be an error of judgement by the City - not like they've got anything wrong recently, of course!
The sharp fall in banking shares not just in the UK but pretty much everywhere is worrying but I don't see any sign yet of the sort of liquidity issues that we had in 2008. There is very little sign of the mortgage market tightening up so far.
It is possible that London in particular will be hit by a reduction in foreign capital looking for a safe home but over the whole country 30% off house builders with decent land banks just looks daft.
The sharp fall in sterling will also make London property MORE attractive to foreign buyers. Suddenly prime London is 20% cheaper - making up for all those new taxes and charges.
Who knows. The initial few days have been rocky. Very very rocky. But we're not vanquished.
They won't like the currency risk, even when its in their favour. The stability was part of the package. But yes, our media are showing an incredibly parochial viewpoint in claiming every movement is somehow a consequence of Brexit. I believe that things will calm down over the next few weeks.
It's clear that in our inter-connected world the fact that market turbulence since the Brexit vote is entirely coincidental. After all, we are an island. Has news of the referendum result even made it to the continent yet?
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
But this is just the last in a succession of glorious peaceful revolutions!
The British, in their wisdom, have got us out of a crumbling customs union with dangerous delusions of statehood and authoritarian instincts. It's wonderful, simply wonderful. We've done it again.
Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
Nope, every summer they'd strip and clean the front quad, just while no-one was looking.
I typed "fat tracking" because I'd had a couple of drinks after winning a tennis match for the first time for yonks. With the weight of EU regulations lifted from my shoulders, I was moving around the court like Andy Murray.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
The Conservative government's tryst with the ERM was surely a self-inflicted crisis.
@jameskirkup: Tory consensus settling on some form of Norway/EEA Brexit. Get ready for Tory vs Ukip election; Labour is roadkill. https://t.co/NzlAsPfqea
Unless the economy collapses, and then the pro-EU Labs and Libs could win a majority.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN - en election (not a recession).
If the voters then go for IN or OUt then so be it, and let's crack on
Do you imagine for one moment that, had Remain won by a similar margin, it would have been considered necessary to back up that decision with a General Election? After all, some 48.5% would have disagreed with government policy.
I absolutely believe people would have demanded the same. We have proof some would not have regarded a result of this nature the other way as definitive.
Oh, agreed, carry on the fight - but what would be the point of a GE when all major parties are in favour of staying in the EU?
As it is, I consider it extremely likely that a GE will be deemed to have nullified the referendum.
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm an admissions tutor at a Cambridge college & it's simply not true that 20% of undergraduates at some colleges are Chinese. In 2015 there were 76 Chinese and 87 from Hong Kong out of 3,449 admissions. In total 782 students were admitted from outside the UK.
This country has has enough of experts with their knowledge and clever answers, thank you very much.
I heard today on the radio that appearently Alan Johnson was leader of the Labour In campaign. I know I didnt't watch every debate or news bulletin but this is the first I knew of it.
The only person even less visible was Stuart Rose.
Alan Johnson is the most overrated MP in Parliament. He had numerous front-bench posts but I can't remember a single thing he did.
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
My dad reckons they will stop building houses because no one will be able to get a mortgage and house prices will fall. But it is tempting to think that the immigration tap might be turned off too. Personally I think that would be an error of judgement by the City - not like they've got anything wrong recently, of course!
The sharp fall in banking shares not just in the UK but pretty much everywhere is worrying but I don't see any sign yet of the sort of liquidity issues that we had in 2008. There is very little sign of the mortgage market tightening up so far.
It is possible that London in particular will be hit by a reduction in foreign capital looking for a safe home but over the whole country 30% off house builders with decent land banks just looks daft.
The sharp fall in sterling will also make London property MORE attractive to foreign buyers. Suddenly prime London is 20% cheaper - making up for all those new taxes and charges.
Who knows. The initial few days have been rocky. Very very rocky. But we're not vanquished.
They won't like the currency risk, even when its in their favour. The stability was part of the package. But yes, our media are showing an incredibly parochial viewpoint in claiming every movement is somehow a consequence of Brexit. I believe that things will calm down over the next few weeks.
It's clear that in our inter-connected world the fact that market turbulence since the Brexit vote is entirely coincidental. After all, we are an island. Has news of the referendum result even made it to the continent yet?
I realise your sarcasm but for interest :
Emergency Awesome (a American youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over 400,000 views.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
The Conservative government's tryst with the ERM was surely a self-inflicted crisis.
Self-inflicted but by bad judgement, not by deliberately choosing uncertainty as we have done now.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
Nope, every summer they'd strip and clean the front quad, just while no-one was looking.
Only fellows are allowed to walk on the grass - members of the junior and middle common rooms have to keep off!
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.
My dad reckons they will stop building houses because no one will be able to get a mortgage and house prices will fall. But it is tempting to think that the immigration tap might be turned off too. Personally I think that would be an error of judgement by the City - not like they've got anything wrong recently, of course!
The sharp fall in banking shares not just in the UK but pretty much everywhere is worrying but I don't see any sign yet of the sort of liquidity issues that we had in 2008. There is very little sign of the mortgage market tightening up so far.
It is possible that London in particular will be hit by a reduction in foreign capital looking for a safe home but over the whole country 30% off house builders with decent land banks just looks daft.
The sharp fall in sterling will also make London property MORE attractive to foreign buyers. Suddenly prime London is 20% cheaper - making up for all those new taxes and charges.
Who knows. The initial few days have been rocky. Very very rocky. But we're not vanquished.
They won't like the currency risk, even when its in their favour. The stability was part of the package. But yes, our media are showing an incredibly parochial viewpoint in claiming every movement is somehow a consequence of Brexit. I believe that things will calm down over the next few weeks.
It's clear that in our inter-connected world the fact that market turbulence since the Brexit vote is entirely coincidental. After all, we are an island. Has news of the referendum result even made it to the continent yet?
I realise your sarcasm but for interest :
Emergency Awesome (a youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over half a million views.
I was astonished to find out the EU pays HBO to make GOT in NI. One can't help but wonder which other multi-billion dollar corporations they've been vomiting our money at.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
Any PB Brexiter want to offer an apology for voting "Leave"? "They lied to me" - if honest is a good reason....
There actually isn't though. UK debt yields dropped again today in the flight to safety. If markets believed that the UK had a low credit rating then that wouldn't be happening.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
Don't you love 'control'?
People have just voted massively against the effects of globalisation on the man in the street, and many of the people leading the charge now want to put their foot on the accelerator in the same direction.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
Or just not accept the deal. I'm perfectly happy with the way we trade with the US - I see no issue.
Good Point. Though ironically the ECHR would save them from an old school impeachment.
An act of attainder could explicitly exempt itself from the HRA couldn't it?
I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is the reluctance around impeachment/summoning people to the bar of the House is to avoid a clash with Strasbourg. They don't want a ECHR ruling saying Parliament can't act in it's role as a ' High Court ' . But then as we've " had enough of experts " now we could always let a Question Time audience doing an Impeachment Trial of Gove and Boris.
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm an admissions tutor at a Cambridge college & it's simply not true that 20% of undergraduates at some colleges are Chinese. In 2015 there were 76 Chinese and 87 from Hong Kong out of 3,449 admissions. In total 782 students were admitted from outside the UK.
This country has has enough of experts with their knowledge and clever answers, thank you very much.
Fair point! It's going to be very interesting to see how we and other universities respond to EU students, no change at present obviously but it's going to have a big impact and certainly means we can charge EU students (a big growth area in Cambridge in recent years) full fees. We'll end up with fewer of them, which is a shame, but more money to spend elsewhere. A small illustration, we currently spend 1.1 million pounds (out of a total of c£7 million of the top of my head) on bursaries for EU students because we can't discriminate between them and UK students. That money can in the future be freed up to be spent on providing more support for those currently on bursaries or widen the net to their UK students or go towards helping finance those extra-EU students who get places but can't afford to come.
Emergency Awesome (a youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over half a million views.
I was astonished to find out the EU pays HBO to make GOT in NI. One can't help but wonder which other multi-billion dollar corporations they've been vomiting our money at.
I believe that much of the money behind Titanic Studios was from EU funding but the actual Tax Credits that mean HBO decides to film in NI are provided by UK/Stormont Governments.
Film and TV production has existed off the back of tax credits for years. If you don't provide them, you don't have an industry, basically. As most employment is local contractors, it is probably a good investment.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
"Fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles!
Hard to have eyes off them really.
I've never thought of Soames and Pickles as eye candy but hey PB is a broad church and you and your sexual fantasies are between you and the privacy of Nick Soames wardrobe.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
That would be a big financial hit for GOSH, would it not?
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
But I thought we just voted LEAVE to avoid TTIP with all its secret ISDS tribunals and copyright law obligations.
Emergency Awesome (a youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over half a million views.
I was astonished to find out the EU pays HBO to make GOT in NI. One can't help but wonder which other multi-billion dollar corporations they've been vomiting our money at.
I believe that much of the money behind Titanic Studios was from EU funding but the actual Tax Credits that mean HBO decides to film in NI are provided by UK/Stormont Governments.
Film and TV production has existed off the back of tax credits for years. If you don't provide them, you don't have an industry, basically. As most employment is local contractors, it is probably a good investment.
That'll teach me to listen to hysterical facebook posts.
If we really are heading for a significant slowdown in growth next year, or a recession, how about we try what we did in the 1930's - building enough houses to meet demand in parts of the country people want to live in?
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
Good Point. Though ironically the ECHR would save them from an old school impeachment.
An act of attainder could explicitly exempt itself from the HRA couldn't it?
I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is the reluctance around impeachment/summoning people to the bar of the House is to avoid a clash with Strasbourg. They don't want a ECHR ruling saying Parliament can't act in it's role as a ' High Court ' . But then as we've " had enough of experts " now we could always let a Question Time audience doing an Impeachment Trial of Gove and Boris.
I think impeachment and attainder are different things. Impeachment is judicial but attainder is just (ab)using Parliamentary sovereignty to override someone's civil rights and shaft them.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
so basically if the EU doesnt pull its finger out it will have lost one of its biggest markets
Any PB Brexiter want to offer an apology for voting "Leave"? "They lied to me" - if honest is a good reason....
There actually isn't though. UK debt yields dropped again today in the flight to safety. If markets believed that the UK had a low credit rating then that wouldn't be happening.
I saw that. Rather dented the panic mongers' narrative.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Well. The credit rating we worked so hard to keep has been lost.
Just as we worked hard(ish) on Austerity but decided in the end other things were more important. Hopefully this will be worth that.
Yep, we have a hell of a lot of hoping to do.
Boris is going to be Prime Minister. He was too scared to attend the Commons today. God help us. Corbyn's excuse is that he is genuinely unintelligent. What's Boris's?
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.
But it isn't just my door step, Mr. B. I was down in Dorset this last weekend and the same is happening there, albet not quite so obviously. The weekend before I was up in Leeds, collecting my boy, and there is humongous amounts of building going on.
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
You clutch that straw.
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
Well. The credit rating we worked so hard to keep has been lost.
Just as we worked hard(ish) on Austerity but decided in the end other things were more important. Hopefully this will be worth that.
Yep, we have a hell of a lot of hoping to do.
Boris is going to be Prime Minister. He was too scared to attend the Commons today. God help us. Corbyn's excuse is that he is genuinely unintelligent. What's Boris's?
Boris would not be my choice, certainly. But everytime we think someone will beat him, well...
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
"Fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles!
Hard to have eyes off them really.
I've never thought of Soames and Pickles as eye candy but hey PB is a broad church and you and your sexual fantasies are between you and the privacy of Nick Soames wardrobe.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
Or just not accept the deal. I'm perfectly happy with the way we trade with the US - I see no issue.
Not from an area affected by the banana trade wars then.
Does anyone know if the current US ' Fast Track ' legislation would cover a UK bilateral deal or is it just TTIP/TPP ? If not presumably they'd have to get fresh legislation through Congress ?
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Who's this "we"
Cameron called the referndum and then screwed it up.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
You clutch that straw.
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
It sounds obvious, but the only way to avoid Scottish independence is for the Scots not to want independence.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
My hunch is that, in five years, the world will be beating down our door to do business with us and we'll be booming... But I suspect the next year or two will be tough and there's no guarantee people will hold their nerve,
In a few months we might be voting to REMAIN (probably through a general election rather than a referendum) with Article 50 never getting triggered in the end.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
You clutch that straw.
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
It sounds obvious, but the only way to avoid Scottish independence is for the Scots not to want independence.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.
Did you read your final sentence before you hit "post"?
There is still time to delete it and replace it with something remotely likely.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm an admissions tutor at a Cambridge college & it's simply not true that .
This country has has enough of experts with their knowledge and clever answers, thank you very much.
Fair point! It's going to be very interesting to see how we and other universities respond to EU students, no change at present obviously but it's going to have a big impact and certainly means we can charge EU students (a big growth area in Cambridge in recent years) full fees. We'll end up with fewer of them, which is a shame, but more money to spend elsewhere. A small illustration, we currently spend 1.1 million pounds (out of a total of c£7 million of the top of my head) on bursaries for EU students because we can't discriminate between them and UK students. That money can in the future be freed up to be spent on providing more support for those currently on bursaries or widen the net to their UK students or go towards helping finance those extra-EU students who get places but can't afford to come.
Our uni has been sending emails of reassurance all day long. some of the EU academics are pretty angered by it all as they view the campaign and vote as a big 'screw you'.
I think the impact for us will be on the research side and some of the links we have with EU industry.
US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.
rcs - genuine question. Was the US proposing to pay a 'pay to play' fee for access to the EU markets? Do any non-European countries who have FTAs with the EU?
I think one negotiating approach would be to tell the EU we refuse to pay and will accept WTO rules, then set up our FTAs with others, then come back to the EU to talk a sensible, no fee deal with them when they are over their need to punish us.
The aim would not be to go that route (although we'd have to be prepared to), but to make them more sensible in their negotiations with us if they start setting demands that significantly worsen the UK's current position.
Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.
But it isn't just my door step, Mr. B. I was down in Dorset this last weekend and the same is happening there, albet not quite so obviously. The weekend before I was up in Leeds, collecting my boy, and there is humongous amounts of building going on.
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.
Sorry Mr LI can only report the figures I see. My main building product is components for under floor heating and my customer has a large national sales force so in effect I sell what he sells. On the other side I also supply equipment for rail track and that is even worse as HMG arent in a rush to upgrade infrastructure. I have one large project which is now 15 months overdue.
Any PB Brexiter want to offer an apology for voting "Leave"? "They lied to me" - if honest is a good reason....
There actually isn't though. UK debt yields dropped again today in the flight to safety. If markets believed that the UK had a low credit rating then that wouldn't be happening.
It's a vote of no confidence in the UK economy. People won't risk anything remotely speculative as they fear they'll get no returns if they do.
Sorry, right now things are not panning out well. Hopefully, we'll be back to normal soon. But this is not a good start.
Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.
But it isn't just my door step, Mr. B. I was down in Dorset this last weekend and the same is happening there, albet not quite so obviously. The weekend before I was up in Leeds, collecting my boy, and there is humongous amounts of building going on.
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.
Local builders in Teignbridge are snowed under with work, apparently.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
Indeed, I notice that the crackpot theories suggesting that Brexit result can be overthrown is fading as reality sets in and the beginnings of anger at that realisation brood
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?
You clutch that straw.
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
It sounds obvious, but the only way to avoid Scottish independence is for the Scots not to want independence.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.
Did you read your final sentence before you hit "post"?
There is still time to delete it and replace it with something remotely likely.
You must try not to believe the squealers of Broadcasting House in such a naive fashion. The fundamentals of Britain's position in the world just got a whole lot better. Whether we make a success of it or not depends on leadership. We're not in a great starting position, but now we're not in the EU we're at least in the race.
I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
that;s simply not true
1970s economic crisis and IMF 1980s war and recession 1990s kicked out of ERM 2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
Panic, hysteria, confusion, turmoil - but enough about the Conservative and Labour parties.
I see the Conservatives have been "cajoled" (someone read the editorial in the Current Bun this morning perhaps) into speeding up the process so I can imagine frantic messaging this evening as the field takes shape. Johnson, May, Crabb, Fox, A.N Other, S.O Else, Osborne, who knows ?
As for Labour, I'm reminded of the Cabinet members telling Thatcher she had to go in 1990. The Shadow Cabinet has tried to tell Corbyn the same thing - the only trouble is he ain't listening and can rely on the "people" to support him.
Musing on the tube home, I think what we saw last Thursday was a repudiation of the current economic and political culture from a significant number of people who have not seen their living standards improve since the 2008 crash. That's not down to the EU but with those backing REMAIN playing to the economic benefits of continued membership, I think there was a response of "what benefits ?".
Hiding within that (and let's be honest about it) is a perception that migration may have benefited the overall economy but has not benefited individuals and their communities. That perception was fed by LEAVE and I understand it - whether it's the criminals or the men who would rather sleep under the Canning Town flyover, it's clear that for many migration is at best a mixed blessing.
There's a profound disconnection between the Government and some of those being governed. I struggle to explain how a local authority has to spend £100 million of Government money every year on extending the number of school places (the undertone is these are for the children of migrants) while services for vulnerable children and adults are being reduced or more harshly assessed.
I don't have the answers but at least it's now out in the open and instead of preening themselves like so many useless birds, the contenders for the job of Prime Minister might want to share their ideas of what kind of society we want to be. They might not be elected by us but they will be governing for all of us until the next election.
Assuming NI is where you are, would I be right to assume that NI suffered severe contagion from the property bubble and subsequent collapse caused by RoI euro membership and therefore building industry still hasnt recovered?
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
My hunch is that, in five years, the world will be beating down our door to do business with us and we'll be booming... But I suspect the next year or two will be tough and there's no guarantee people will hold their nerve,
In a few months we might be voting to REMAIN (probably through a general election rather than a referendum) with Article 50 never getting triggered in the end.
The FT is reporting that India are very keen to start talks on an FTA as the talks with the EU have been stalled for years.
"Talks on an India-EU trade deal began nearly a decade ago but quickly stalled. Swapan Dasgupta, an independent member of parliament close to the ruling Bharatiya Janata party, said concluding an India-UK trade deal would be far easier.
“If an FTA [free-trade agreement] negotiating unit is 25 constituent countries with their own pluses and minuses, you are not going to get to some sort of common ground where the losses balance the gains,” he said. “But there is a far greater chance of it with the UK. We understand each other, and there is very little clash in what we want.”
Comments
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
I noticed Gisela and Kate showed up in the Commons this afternoon. The ladies have manned up but what about the men?
The British, in their wisdom, have got us out of a crumbling customs union with dangerous delusions of statehood and authoritarian instincts. It's wonderful, simply wonderful. We've done it again.
As it is, I consider it extremely likely that a GE will be deemed to have nullified the referendum.
Where is Mr Burnham?
Emergency Awesome (a American youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over 400,000 views.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdOPBP9vuZA
People have just voted massively against the effects of globalisation on the man in the street, and many of the people leading the charge now want to put their foot on the accelerator in the same direction.
Film and TV production has existed off the back of tax credits for years. If you don't provide them, you don't have an industry, basically. As most employment is local contractors, it is probably a good investment.
Boris is going to be Prime Minister. He was too scared to attend the Commons today. God help us. Corbyn's excuse is that he is genuinely unintelligent. What's Boris's?
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
Cameron called the referndum and then screwed it up.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.
In a few months we might be voting to REMAIN (probably through a general election rather than a referendum) with Article 50 never getting triggered in the end.
There is still time to delete it and replace it with something remotely likely.
Our uni has been sending emails of reassurance all day long. some of the EU academics are pretty angered by it all as they view the campaign and vote as a big 'screw you'.
I think the impact for us will be on the research side and some of the links we have with EU industry.
I think one negotiating approach would be to tell the EU we refuse to pay and will accept WTO rules, then set up our FTAs with others, then come back to the EU to talk a sensible, no fee deal with them when they are over their need to punish us.
The aim would not be to go that route (although we'd have to be prepared to), but to make them more sensible in their negotiations with us if they start setting demands that significantly worsen the UK's current position.
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Sorry, right now things are not panning out well. Hopefully, we'll be back to normal soon. But this is not a good start.
She's no Nicola that's for sure...
Why did you vote to leave btw ? Always had you down in the centre ground....
"Even though this situation was not of our making"
Erm, how did Wales vote again?
Panic, hysteria, confusion, turmoil - but enough about the Conservative and Labour parties.
I see the Conservatives have been "cajoled" (someone read the editorial in the Current Bun this morning perhaps) into speeding up the process so I can imagine frantic messaging this evening as the field takes shape. Johnson, May, Crabb, Fox, A.N Other, S.O Else, Osborne, who knows ?
As for Labour, I'm reminded of the Cabinet members telling Thatcher she had to go in 1990. The Shadow Cabinet has tried to tell Corbyn the same thing - the only trouble is he ain't listening and can rely on the "people" to support him.
Musing on the tube home, I think what we saw last Thursday was a repudiation of the current economic and political culture from a significant number of people who have not seen their living standards improve since the 2008 crash. That's not down to the EU but with those backing REMAIN playing to the economic benefits of continued membership, I think there was a response of "what benefits ?".
Hiding within that (and let's be honest about it) is a perception that migration may have benefited the overall economy but has not benefited individuals and their communities. That perception was fed by LEAVE and I understand it - whether it's the criminals or the men who would rather sleep under the Canning Town flyover, it's clear that for many migration is at best a mixed blessing.
There's a profound disconnection between the Government and some of those being governed. I struggle to explain how a local authority has to spend £100 million of Government money every year on extending the number of school places (the undertone is these are for the children of migrants) while services for vulnerable children and adults are being reduced or more harshly assessed.
I don't have the answers but at least it's now out in the open and instead of preening themselves like so many useless birds, the contenders for the job of Prime Minister might want to share their ideas of what kind of society we want to be. They might not be elected by us but they will be governing for all of us until the next election.
#StickYouYourGunsJez
Speech!
"Greatest crowd since the Miners won in 1974"
Assuming NI is where you are, would I be right to assume that NI suffered severe contagion from the property bubble and subsequent collapse caused by RoI euro membership and therefore building industry still hasnt recovered?
Leanne Wood is no Alex Salmond and has been completely incapable of pivoting Plaid to the Left AND taking their voters and party members with them.
Nicola never had to do this, the pivot was a fair accompli. She may have been capable of doing it but she was never given that test.
"Talks on an India-EU trade deal began nearly a decade ago but quickly stalled. Swapan Dasgupta, an independent member of parliament close to the ruling Bharatiya Janata party, said concluding an India-UK trade deal would be far easier.
“If an FTA [free-trade agreement] negotiating unit is 25 constituent countries with their own pluses and minuses, you are not going to get to some sort of common ground where the losses balance the gains,” he said. “But there is a far greater chance of it with the UK. We understand each other, and there is very little clash in what we want.”