IDS confirms on Mart more money will be given to the NHS and Agriculture from the savings made by BREXIT. He also states that UKIP will have representatives in the withdrawal negotiations process
I nt would be dubious compared to that of a specific mandate delivered via referendum. You're right that we can't assume the motivations for people voting for a specific government, we can however be sure that the referendum showed a majority in favour of leaving the EU.
So a party elected in a GE saying they'll do policy X has no mandate to implement X if it's a "referendum" issue? How exactly are these decided?
It is a referendum issue if a referendum was recently held on it, simple as that! Would you have accepted a new government elected in 1998 scrapping the proposals for Scotttish devolution?
If we are going to bother with referendums they need to be respected. They are power methods of direct democracy, if we just want to treat them as opinions polls then why bother?
Hilary Benn. The man who tirelessly fights for the poor against nepotism and the untouchable elite. Just like his father and grandfathers did before him and no doubt any of his kids in the future too if they are able to fog a mirror.
His niece was selected as a parliamentary candidate at age 17 I believe. Very able young woman apparently, Cyclefree has met her IIRC, and definitely selected on merit at age 17, I am sure.
Oh really, that is incredibly surprising. I'm sure she is one of the best people to sock it to the privileged Tories.
If there's another Scottish Indyref, and if bits of Scotland - say the residents of an Edinburgh street have voted to stay then surely the SNPs logic means that they should be allowed to have their own little referendum to stay in the UK.
It seems many people have forgotten what a democracy is.
Nutter
Nuts in what way? Happy for you to enlighten me if there's a glaring error here.
I am sure you are not as stupid as you are making out , you vote as a country , not as a street or postcode. Scotland is a country and so the vote applies to the whole of Scotland. Is that clear enough.
I have finally realised that a bunch of people on this site who don't even understand that Scotland is a country not a county of England. Do you wonder that independence is now soaring ahead.
Most Leave voters polled, albeit not Remain voters, saw themselves as English not British anyway. Britain is dead, English and Scottish nationalism have seen to that neither feel any love for it so an amicable divorce is best for both sides
Do these anti-Corbyn MPs actually have an alternative candidate?
Probably Tristan "70% of my constituents voted against my views" Hunt
I want to see how long Kelly Tolhurst lasts. The most shameless liar - she pretended to be a big Brexiteer then backed Remain. Rochester voted Leave by a margin of 40 000.
Expect sterling and the markets to fall this week.
It's the uncertainty that's going to be the driver. The experts will be proven right as the cost of living soars, holiday money diminishes and the number of foreigners increase.
The combination of xenophobia, economic hardship and deceit is a very nasty cocktail. Boris and co will be fully responsible for this.
You are a cheery optimistic chap indeed.
I only talk the truth brother, cheerful or not...
From a pessimistic viewpoint though and yet to be proven true , it is a possible option but not yet true
The Corbyn magic doesn't seem to be working on Facebook or Twitter. Opinion seems genuinely divided rather than behind him. A big change. He could be going.
Depressing reports of a surge in immigrants and non-White Britons being hassled in the street post the Brexit vote. Some people clear thought Brexit = all foreigners leave.
Rare though, a black British lady in our office voted Leave, many ethnic minorities are also Brexiteers
backtracking on the NHS funding and saying that immigration will not go down.
If we had "Remained" there would be no misappropriated money to allocate to the NHS. It scares me that you are allowed to make any decisions (let alone medical ones)...!
Next election, Liberal Democrats, Labour, SNP and Greens stand on continuing membership of EU and cancelling withdrawl negotiations. Labour win and we stay in?
Two issues.
1) Even if we can delay declaring article 50 until October, can it be delayed until after a snap GE? Seems doubtful, and once declared there's no turning back was my understanding.
2) Labour will not stand on continuing membership.It might play well in about half their seats (although perhaps not - not all remainers will be on board), buin some of the far left vote. LDs have little to lose but simply are not going to win in most places - after all, most places voted Leave in any case. And the SNP, well, do they really want to stop the negotiations? They are on the path they want now.
I think we could be heading to a new party that will oppose leaving the EU. I reckon if the EU think this new party has a chance of winning, they'll hold fire and give them a chance.
"Hold off on the Brexit negotiations Jean-Claude, the LD are about to go into government with the New European Democrats"
More seriously, I cannot see that happening. Remain actually wasn't that far off in places I thought they would be, here in Wiltshire they were on 48.5%, but are the LDs or Lab or a new party really going to win a seat here, over all tribal loyalties, because the EU is so vital to them, even though they voted Leave? A new party isn't going to win on city seats alone, and they probably wouldn't win those either.
I'm thinking some of the Tories will join the new party.
I don't know that Ken Clarke on his own will be that effective.
186 backed Bremain. They will try to get one of their guys or girls as PM. If they fail, some of them may leave the Tory Party. We are on the edge of a complete realignment of politics in England and Wales.
Most of the 186 backed Cameron out of party loyalty or career ambition.
Remember Osborne to backbenchers - "do you want to Leave, or do you want a career"? All those poor cowed schmucks holding an Osborne career advancement IOU, at the cost of a very pissed off local membership... I suspect many will have now "heard the will of the people" over the sound of torn up paper...
And they tried spinning it that it was 'a joke' the moment it backfired. Makes me channel my inner Nelson Muntz.
Hilary Benn. The man who tirelessly fights for the poor against nepotism and the untouchable elite. Just like his father and grandfathers did before him and no doubt any of his kids in the future too if they are able to fog a mirror.
His niece was selected as a parliamentary candidate at age 17 I believe. Very able young woman apparently, Cyclefree has met her IIRC, and definitely selected on merit at age 17, I am sure.
Yes for sure, oh another squadron of pigs just flew past.
Depressing reports of a surge in immigrants and non-White Britons being hassled in the street post the Brexit vote. Some people clear thought Brexit = all foreigners leave.
Yes, I've heard that too from friends in Birmingham. Nothing yet in London but we are in dangerous times.
Something the PB Guidos / Breibarts simply would not understand.
Alot of people on here have voted "Out" on an intellectual level. I hope all of us, "ins" and "outs" stand united against the knuckle draggers who are harrassing people in this way.
It seems to me that the only possible outcome here is a Labour split.
How about a new political party to take on Labour in the North at the next GE? There's a market for it.
I don't think the Labour of Watson, Balls, Cooper, Hunt et al fit the bill - they can't reverse-ferret with any credibility. Nor do I think UKIP could fill it. Open-door Corbyn certainly doesn't. Better to create a new Party and effectively merge Old Labour and northern UKIP?
Lots of possibilities. I imagine a centrist coalition that give up on the Corbynites would be the line (possibly absorbing a handful of Tories and possibly a LD) - a sort of SDP2.
However you're entirely correct that the split may well not be along traditional party lines.
Sadly, I think all this talk of realignment is for the birds. Individual politicians switch parties when all their bridges are burned where they are. But our voting system makes major realignments extremely risky, before you start to consider all the tribal and institutional stakes people have in the existing parties, and we have the last precedent as a very clear reminder.
The more interesting question is whether some big vote switches between the existing parties in a GE could throw up some peculiar results. Again, sadly, I suspect that most of these will favour the Tories, since Labour's vote looks more at risk right now.
It seems to me that the only possible outcome here is a Labour split.
How about a new political party to take on Labour in the North at the next GE? There's a market for it.
I don't think the Labour of Watson, Balls, Cooper, Hunt et al fit the bill - they can't reverse-ferret with any credibility. Nor do I think UKIP could fill it. Open-door Corbyn certainly doesn't. Better to create a new Party and effectively merge Old Labour and northern UKIP?
Lots of possibilities. I imagine a centrist coalition that give up on the Corbynites would be the line (possibly absorbing a handful of Tories and possibly a LD) - a sort of SDP2.
However you're entirely correct that the split may well not be along traditional party lines.
Sadly, I think all this talk of realignment is for the birds. Individual politicians switch parties when all their bridges are burned where they are. But our voting system makes major realignments extremely risky, before you start to consider all the tribal and institutional stakes people have in the existing parties, and we have the last precedent as a very clear reminder.
The more interesting question is whether some big vote switches between the existing parties in a GE could throw up some peculiar results. Again, sadly, I suspect that most of these will favour the Tories, since Labour's vote looks more at risk right now.
There is almost nothing - including the role of physical violence in child-rearing - on which the WWC and Labour's middle-class membership agree.
Next election, Liberal Democrats, Labour, SNP and Greens stand on continuing membership of EU and cancelling withdrawl negotiations. Labour win and we stay in?
Two issues.
1) Even if we can delay declaring article 50 until October, can it be delayed until after a snap GE? Seems doubtful, and once declared there's no turning back was my understanding.
2) Labour will not stand on continuing membership.It might play well in about half their seats (although perhaps not - not all remainers will be on board), buin some of the far left vote. LDs have little to lose but simply are not going to win in most places - after all, most places voted Leave in any case. And the SNP, well, do they really want to stop the negotiations? They are on the path they want now.
I think we could be heading to a new party that will oppose leaving the EU. I reckon if the EU think this new party has a chance of winning, they'll hold fire and give them a chance.
"Hold off on the Brexit negotiations Jean-Claude, the LD are about to go into government with the New European Democrats"
More seriously, I cannot see that happening. Remain actually wasn't that far off in places I thought they would be, here in Wiltshire they were on 48.5%, but are the LDs or Lab or a new party really going to win a seat here, over all tribal loyalties, because the EU is so vital to them, even though they voted Leave? A new party isn't going to win on city seats alone, and they probably wouldn't win those either.
I'm thinking some of the Tories will join the new party.
I don't know that Ken Clarke on his own will be that effective.
186 backed Bremain. They will try to get one of their guys or girls as PM. If they fail, some of them may leave the Tory Party. We are on the edge of a complete realignment of politics in England and Wales.
Most of the 186 backed Cameron out of party loyalty or career ambition.
Remember Osborne to backbenchers - "do you want to Leave, or do you want a career"? All those poor cowed schmucks holding an Osborne career advancement IOU, at the cost of a very pissed off local membership... I suspect many will have now "heard the will of the people" over the sound of torn up paper...
And they tried spinning it that it was 'a joke' the moment it backfired. Makes me channel my inner Nelson Muntz.
Comments
If we are going to bother with referendums they need to be respected. They are power methods of direct democracy, if we just want to treat them as opinions polls then why bother?
:are-you-under-medication:
Makes me channel my inner Nelson Muntz.
The more interesting question is whether some big vote switches between the existing parties in a GE could throw up some peculiar results. Again, sadly, I suspect that most of these will favour the Tories, since Labour's vote looks more at risk right now.
Theresa Villiers was very good on Sky just now - calm and measured.
new thread