The powerful people in London are only powerful as long as the British people accept their rule & the British people have the ability to make the powerful people powerless.
What will be your mechanism for sorting out the City of London?
Labour spin line is clearly is "global economic crisis" and "Tory cuts" ....Bad Al giving this line a big push...and he couldn't resist the "England flag waving".
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
Good to see where your priorities lie. Fuck those scummy Northerners
If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.
Ireland seems like it would do so very unwillingly, feels like at the least cordial relations might take a bit. They'd see us a giant diseased ape living in their house that keeps ruining things for anyone they bring home, but they can't afford the rent on any other place.
They can't survive Eurozone moves towards tax harmonisation, the UK was their key ally to block that.
You may have missed the thrust of my point - I don't know if they could survive such a thing, you may well be right, but I doubt them being forced out because they needed us as an ally or whatever, would result in particularly harmonious relations. They fought hard to not be dragged along by us, They asked us not to do this, even if EU moves without us force them out, we'd get the blame I fear.
Who knows. Perhaps non-EU Europe will become a greater success for them than the EU was.
I'm sure the CFP is unpopular in Ireland if nothing else.
Exactly. Northern European nations including Ireland, Scandinavian EU nations and the Netherlands will be keeping a keen eye on us. If as I suspect there is no economic crash caused by Brexit, that the received wisdom of turmoil turns out to be as ethereal as a Remain/Rubio BF lead then other nations will be quite tempted to follow our path.
Exciting. For years we have been recalcitrant followers of whatever Germany and France wants to do. We have a huge opportunity here to set a new path to success.
Why are the BBC running stories such as these stoking fears? Ben Thompson @BBCBenThompson 2h2 hours ago Sources at Morgan Stanley tell BBC it's already begun process of moving 2,000 London based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt
This is the truth. Ben Thompson @BBCBenThompson 48m48 minutes ago Morgan Stanley denies the process to relocate staff has BEGUN but will not wait for Article 50 to be triggered before making moves.
That's not a massive difference, I have to say.The changing of begun to begin and adding 'will' in place of 'already' would make it entirely accurate if your quotes are correct, and not greatly different otherwise.
it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.
That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?
Got to say Mr O, commiserations since I know you were a strong remainer, but it's a fine weekend and a new departure for us all. Common sense will win through.
And congratulations to you. I know you are a professional contrarian, so I can imagine that you are enjoying this immensely and when I think of the the folk in Brussels being shaken to the very core of their entitled beings I have to say it gives me a frisson of joy too. Then I remember who us about to take over running the country and it brings me down to earth.
I do agree that common sense will win the day. The problem is that this means a lot of Leave voters are going to be sorely disappointed. In the end, it is clear that Boris or whoever is not going to do anything that will put the City of big business at a disadvantage. If we do suffer a period of sustained will it be worth it if what we end up with is pretty much what we have now?
Astonishing. If Remain had won today, I would have been gutted. However, I would have ACCEPTED it. These nutters do not even want a democracy, let alone public referenda.
The 75% turnout rule would be ridiculous, far too high a bar, but the other bit isn't a bad idea (nice it is 'if remain or leave'). No justification for backdating a rule like that though. Might not be a bad idea to bring in for future though - so if we do try to rejoin, then leave, then rejoin again or whatever, that we're really sure this time.
What if the next referendum is below 60%? And the one after that? Come on. You either believe in a democratic process or you don't. A majority is a majority, unequivocally, even by just one vote. I believe in that, the losing side obviously don't.
What I find most heartening is that despite the very many attempts to subvert the democratic process - we voted Leave.
£9m tax payers money on an incredibly biased leaflet, giving concessions on HMG legislation for Remain union campaigning, breaking purdah, allowing Remain to campaign for weeks before the Electoral Commission picked an official Leave team - and on and on and on.
Oh dear - you won, congratulations - surely you can move on now.
Nice speech, man! And the Donald is coming in on BF. I said these were intertwined...
The US news is awash with Brexit and the parallels it portends for November - mostly of a Main Street vs Wall Street type. Bet Hillary is pissed off with us.
If I had known it would piss Hilary off i would have tried even harder
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man in favour of open borders is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man who is in favour of open borders. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?
.
One person is in favour of open borders which hurt the working class (unlimited unskilled migration).
The other person is in favour of open borders which are neutral or help the working class (limited migration of skilled workers who'll create jobs for the working class).
I don't think The Donald will put us to the Back of the Queue!
Well you're in need of acquiring an ability to see beyond the end of your nose pretty sharpish. Unless you're a weapons manufacturer or payday loan merchant, in which case you're probably right.
Less than 10% of school leavers went to university in 1970. Are people born in the early 50s stupider than those born post 1990, around half of whom go to uni after school?
Why are the BBC running stories such as these stoking fears? Ben Thompson @BBCBenThompson 2h2 hours ago Sources at Morgan Stanley tell BBC it's already begun process of moving 2,000 London based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt
This is the truth. Ben Thompson @BBCBenThompson 48m48 minutes ago Morgan Stanley denies the process to relocate staff has BEGUN but will not wait for Article 50 to be triggered before making moves.
I would genuinely like to know what the working v non-working voting split was.
I hope the OAPs that won this for Brexit are now ready to build this vibrant, dynamic new independent UK I keep hearing about!
Those in the House of Lords will be doing their part! Telegraph suggesting there will need to be ~30 bills per Queen's speech for the next decade to untangle all our EU legislation (I suppose 300 bills in one session would be a challenge!)
it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
It's almost as if certain areas of the media are trying to talk down the stock market so they can make a story out of it. Shocking.
Not working, the FTSE is now down less than 2.5%. Even accounting for Forex the Spanish market has been harder hit than ours, which seems strange given what a strong position the EU is in to dictate terms to us, or so I am told.
The EU is now (almost) officially bankrupt - they have no real bargaining power and the leaders are just now figuring it out - the Emperor has no clothes.
The consequences for the EU are enormous. Losing a big net contributor, balance of power issues, contagion re referendums.
When the world's 5th biggest economy says Eff EU - it matters.
Nice speech, man! And the Donald is coming in on BF. I said these were intertwined...
The US news is awash with Brexit and the parallels it portends for November - mostly of a Main Street vs Wall Street type. Bet Hillary is pissed off with us.
it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.
That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?
About three quarters, Mr. Observer, but I have had a nap.
Congratulations by the way on calling the result. I hoped you were right but didn't actually think you were (the opposite to you own position I suppose). It has to make you one of the best tipsters on here.
Looking forward, I think it behoves all of us to make the best of the situation we are now in, and I sincerely hope the Labour party can get their act together. We now more than ever need a credible opposition party.
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
Yep, people in the office are very quiet today. Very reflective and pretty pensive sums it up. No Friday feeling here The email from the CEO didn't really cheer us up. The leaders of the Leave team scare me - very worrying times ahead. Cannot see a quick mend as this result was very polarising. Time will tell as ever if my pessimism bears fruit.
We were already polarised, the result only demonstrated the extend of the polarisation: the haves and the have nots
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
I guess you're just going to have to tough it out in your luxurious Tuscan villa. Life's a bitch sometimes.
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
I would genuinely like to know what the working v non-working voting split was.
I hope the OAPs that won this for Brexit are now ready to build this vibrant, dynamic new independent UK I keep hearing about!
Those in the House of Lords will be doing their part! Telegraph suggesting there will need to be ~30 bills per Queen's speech for the next decade to untangle all our EU legislation (I suppose 300 bills in one session would be a challenge!)
Ah the House of Lords. That must be the democratic control we keep hearing about.
Sorry if this has been dealt with earlier but i have just woken up having been up with Scully MP till 8am( amongst others) We now cant put too much store on Betfair. It was weird at the count seeing things so much for leave and also seeing most areas for leave doing better than Hanrattys spreeadheet , that the betfair mob didnt want to accept the inevitable untill last knockings. Maybe we should not use them as OGH did as a barometer any more?
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
Khan is our only hope. He needs to show strong leadership. The city is hurting.
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
Stick it up your Juncker....not because of being for Remain or Leave....but I am not going through another 6 weeks of that BS.
The EU is not almost officially bankrupt. You will know it when Britain and the EU go bankrupt.
I really hope that all PBers make sure their money is protected under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. The maximum in any one account is £75000.
I would genuinely like to know what the working v non-working voting split was.
I hope the OAPs that won this for Brexit are now ready to build this vibrant, dynamic new independent UK I keep hearing about!
Those in the House of Lords will be doing their part! Telegraph suggesting there will need to be ~30 bills per Queen's speech for the next decade to untangle all our EU legislation (I suppose 300 bills in one session would be a challenge!)
Ah the House of Lords. That must be the democratic control we keep hearing about.
it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.
That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?
About three quarters, Mr. Observer, but I have had a nap.
Congratulations by the way on calling the result. I hoped you were right but didn't actually think you were (the opposite to you own position I suppose). It has to make you one of the best tipsters on here.
Looking forward, I think it behoves all of us to make the best of the situation we are now in, and I sincerely hope the Labour party can get their act together. We now more than ever need a credible opposition party.
Mr Observer is on a role of late with his betting tips....
FTSE100 now down around 1.75% and steadily rising. It's now the worst fall in 10 days, so lots of journalists have some rewriting to do.
They're still running with the "Worst FTSE opening for 30 years" headlines. It's now over 6200, less than 2% off on the day and higher than it closed a week ago. Cable (£/$) is 1.38 - it was 1.39 in March!
This is not about today, this is about next week and the months and years ahead.
The petition for a debate on a 2nd referendum passes the threshold
The whoe charade kind of sums up the pointlessness of the internet as a tool for political expression in this case. I wonder how many of the signatories actually voted yesterday.
I would genuinely like to know what the working v non-working voting split was.
I hope the OAPs that won this for Brexit are now ready to build this vibrant, dynamic new independent UK I keep hearing about!
Those in the House of Lords will be doing their part! Telegraph suggesting there will need to be ~30 bills per Queen's speech for the next decade to untangle all our EU legislation (I suppose 300 bills in one session would be a challenge!)
Ah the House of Lords. That must be the democratic control we keep hearing about.
That'd be the House of Commons
Ah, the unreformed cesspit that brought us Duck Islands. Doesn't feel like progress.
it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
To be honest, Mr. Brookell sipping at it.
That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?
Got to say Mr O, commiserations since I know you were a strong remainer, but it's a fine weekend and a new departure for us all. Common sense will win through.
And congratulations to you. I know you are a professional contrarian, so I can imagine that you are enjoying this immensely and when I think of the the folk in Brussels being shaken to the very core of their entitled beings I have to say it gives me a frisson of joy too. Then I remember who us about to take over running the country and it brings me down to earth.
I do agree that common sense will win the day. The problem is that this means a lot of Leave voters are going to be sorely disappointed. In the end, it is clear that Boris or whoever is not going to do anything that will put the City of big business at a disadvantage. If we do suffer a period of sustained will it be worth it if what we end up with is pretty much what we have now?
No Mr O I have genuine sense of regret that we got here, while I am a Leaver it's not as if I think everything the EU has done is bad, it has many good points, but on balance for me the bad outweighs the good.
Like most I would have been happy with an outer core relationship with Europe, but Cameron said we couldn't have that and the Innercore were too inflexible in their demand for ever closer Union , so Leave it had to be.
That doesnt of course fix the many weaknesses this country face most of which you and I agree on - though we differ on how best to approach them - but if this forces our business and political elites to re-engage with their workforces and voters it will be a good start.
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
Well at least he's trying to say something sensible.
it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.
That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?
About three quarters, Mr. Observer, but I have had a nap.
Congratulations by the way on calling the result. I hoped you were right but didn't actually think you were (the opposite to you own position I suppose). It has to make you one of the best tipsters on here.
Looking forward, I think it behoves all of us to make the best of the situation we are now in, and I sincerely hope the Labour party can get their act together. We now more than ever need a credible opposition party.
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
Precious few in inner London.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
Sorry if this has been dealt with earlier but i have just woken up having been up with Scully MP till 8am( amongst others) We now cant put too much store on Betfair. It was weird at the count seeing things so much for leave and also seeing most areas for leave doing better than Hanrattys spreeadheet , that the betfair mob didnt want to accept the inevitable untill last knockings. Maybe we should not use them as OGH did as a barometer any more?
It's a great barometer of expectations; that doesn't mean the expectations are correct (though if they're not then that's where the value lies, which is the point of this site).
I would genuinely like to know what the working v non-working voting split was.
I hope the OAPs that won this for Brexit are now ready to build this vibrant, dynamic new independent UK I keep hearing about!
Most of those working full- or part-time voted to remain, for example, while most of those who are not working wanted to leave. More than half of those on a personal pension voted to leave, a figure that rose to two-thirds of those on a state pension. Some 55% of those who own their homes outright voted to leave. The older the voter, the more likely they were to vote to leave: 60% of those aged 65 or more voted to leave, while nearly three-quarters of 18-to-24-year- olds voted to remain. A large majority of those whose formal education ended at secondary school level voted to leave, while 67% of those with a university degree and 64% with a higher degree voted to remain. More than four-fifths of those voters still in full-time eduction voted to remain.
Those with less to lose voted for Brexit essentially.
Gotta laugh at the self-centered entitlement of some on here ... unless they're on a wind-up of course.
Buyers remorse really isn't going to be much of a challenge: i think we can all see now that the moves in the market simply don't support the doom-mongers contentions. in truth, they never did.
That BBC tweet appears to be both bad journalism and recklessly irresponsible.
Faisal Islam has also not covered himself in glory (particularly over the Warsi business). Shame there aren't more journalists of Andrew Neil's calibre.
FTSE100 now trading higher than it was in February when Cameron called the referendum. source Skynews 3.50pm
If you look at the FTSE 100, it's full of US dollar earners: Anglo American, Shell, BP, Rio Tinto, BHP, ARM etc. If the sterling goes down, it is entirely logical they go up.
A better barometer of the extent of the shock is to look at the performance of the banks (don 15% or so), or to look at the FTSE250.
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
Precious few in inner London.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
But if it was reversed, would they have given a second thought to the 'little Englanders'? I suspect not. It really is a shame that the country seems more divided than ever.
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
Never going to happen because everyone else would threaten to leave to win the same concession.
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
Stick it up your Juncker....not because of being for Remain or Leave....but I am not going through another 6 weeks of that BS.
Come on be real- This time next month we will all be bored and missing the excitement of the campaign
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
Well at least he's trying to say something sensible.
Agreed. It seems impossible, but that solution would be more likely to satisfy the majority than EEA/EFTA.
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
I guess you're just going to have to tough it out in your luxurious Tuscan villa. Life's a bitch sometimes.
At this rate these poor folk are going to run out of tissues.
Mr. D, indeed. Cameron's problem is that he seems to (after the 2015 result) bought his own bullshit. There was little effort to persuade, it was more a mixture of hyperbolic scare stories and cajoling.
I would've liked to vote Remain. Had a deal for trade but not the political tosh been on the table, I would've likely voted for that.
Instead there was a deal which amounted to an insult (exacerbated by Cameron pretending it was worth a damn) and two terrible campaigns.
Cameron and Blair both had such opportunities, and both failed. Is Brown 'better' for being consistently shit?
I'll be glad when the Angeli dynasty comes to an end. A few Comneni leaders would not go amiss [early ones, please].
Well we now have a chance to test out the negotiation skills of Gove/Johnson when they secure a deal which gives us the single market/free movement/immigration control/cuddly toys all round and at no cost. Oh and just for us British EU immigrants, all of our existing arrangements to be continued
European stock exchanges - AEX (Amsterdam), DAX MDAX SDAX TECDAX (Frankfurt), CAC40 (Paris), BEL20 (Brussels), IBEX (Madrid), SMI SPI (Zurich).. have all lost more than the FTSE100 today
Mr. Urquhart, Little Englander was such a tin-eared thing to say. Most people here called it at once. Given how the votes went, that sort of thing may have made a critical difference.
FTSE100 now trading higher than it was in February when Cameron called the referendum. source Skynews 3.50pm
If you look at the FTSE 100, it's full of US dollar earners: Anglo American, Shell, BP, Rio Tinto, BHP, ARM etc. If the sterling goes down, it is entirely logical they go up.
A better barometer of the extent of the shock is to look at the performance of the banks (don 15% or so), or to look at the FTSE250.
True, but do you really think it is a harbinger of recession?
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.
Except ICM and TNS?
Opinium's 10/10 number is the Gold Standard in the Chestnut residence.
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
Precious few in inner London.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
Precious few in inner London.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
Pretty much sums the mood in London (here at work anyway) - A very very sad day which we will regret further down the line (I have no doubt of that!).
European stock exchanges - AEX (Amsterdam), DAX MDAX SDAX TECDAX (Frankfurt), CAC40 (Paris), BEL20 (Brussels), IBEX (Madrid), SMI SPI (Zurich).. have all lost more than the FTSE100 today
It's a bit more complicated than that; you need to look at constant currency changes. I.e. if you had a pound in the CAC and a pound in the FTSE, you gained back everything you lost in the Euro's appreciation versus Sterling.
I guess people who say: "there might be some hard times on the way, but it's worth it," are rather well insulated from those hard times.
Not necessarily - I've heard it from many people far from insulated. Now, maybe they don't have a conception of the level of hard times, but that's another matter.
Just like I didn't buy the polls yesterday I won't be buying the economic armageddon stuff either.
Britain will be fine. I reckon the future for my children will be more democratic and happier.
And for all the gnashing and wailing re Wales being a next beneficiary, yes, I'd accept - though some don't - that we are a beneficiary when all the infrastructure spending is added up. But by how much? 50m Euros at most, annually? It's peanuts.
"Congratulations by the way on calling the result."
Who needs the pollsters when you're around? Cheer up, things are never as dark as they seem. I'm sure a few Brexiteers woke up with a feeling of "What have we done?". After 41 years, that's natural.
The old gits remember how we got here and know the dangers are over-egged. Why else would a normally risk-averse demographic vote for change while the weedy kids are peeing themselves? That, and the fact that they've endured ongoing insults for years. It's the old white men that are the problem, remember?
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.
Except ICM and TNS?
Opinium's 10/10 number is the Gold Standard in the Chestnut residence.
GE2015. London Mayor and now the Referendum.
Chestnut, may I say thanks for your analysis and scepticism at the polls. Those forecasting LEAVE need to stand up, be counted and smile!
Turns out some of my bosses are passionate Remainers and quite inconsolable and angry. I may have to pretend I was for Remain, as dancing around the subject may not be sustainable in the long term
FTSE100 now trading higher than it was in February when Cameron called the referendum. source Skynews 3.50pm
Do you think anything being done today by the Bank of England might have something to do with that?
Not really. I had pointed out several times in recent weeks that since a lot of the FTSE100 is built on profits coming in from abroad, then a drop in sterling would improve their share value. This fact seems to be beyond the business reporters of the BBC and ITV etc.
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
Precious few in inner London.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
But if it was reversed, would they have given a second thought to the 'little Englanders'? I suspect not. It really is a shame that the country seems more divided than ever.
Don't forget - the inner Londoners do tend to vote Labour. Whilst it's fair to say that the metropolitan Labour party may have abandoned its roots, at least some thought is there.
Gotta laugh at the self-centered entitlement of some on here ... unless they're on a wind-up of course.
Buyers remorse really isn't going to be much of a challenge: i think we can all see now that the moves in the market simply don't support the doom-mongers contentions. in truth, they never did.
The market is only one aspect that might concern people after the event has occurred.
Vince Cable's been on Radio 5 saying that maybe the EU could find a way to incorporate controls on free movement into its principles and then let the British people vote again.
Stick it up your Juncker....not because of being for Remain or Leave....but I am not going through another 6 weeks of that BS.
Take it from someone who knows - it gets easier after the third one....
European stock exchanges - AEX (Amsterdam), DAX MDAX SDAX TECDAX (Frankfurt), CAC40 (Paris), BEL20 (Brussels), IBEX (Madrid), SMI SPI (Zurich).. have all lost more than the FTSE100 today
It's a bit more complicated than that; you need to look at constant currency changes. I.e. if you had a pound in the CAC and a pound in the FTSE, you gained back everything you lost in the Euro's appreciation versus Sterling.
I know, and we have fallen by over 5% against almost every currency in the world today. But a fair bit of that is a correction to the pound getting pumped up overnight by traders who thought we were nailed on to remain.
just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
Just how were the hyperintelligensia in London unable to convince all the stupid people?
Because they are stupid themselves and haven't got a clue about in what way. They have no idea how ordinary people think. They have no grip on how this referendum was felt as RELEASE by most people who voted Leave. The "hyperintelligentsia" are just like Daily Mail readers but they munch on focaccia and read Adorno and Bourdieu.
I am so angry that I'd better leave here now for a while to plan my next move. The only good thing is that I made quite a lot of money betting on Leave to win, at an overall price of between 2.5 and 3.
Cheerio everyone. And don't leave more than £75K in any one account
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
People in London voted to leave, as well, you know.
Precious few in inner London.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
Pretty much sums the mood in London (here at work anyway) - A very very sad day which we will regret further down the line (I have no doubt of that!).
The inability of our side to engage in argument, preferring to look down our noses at the provincials, is what has caused us to lose. Not just over the last two months but the last two decades.
I am upset we have lost, but the ugly attitudes from my fellow Remainers makes me ashamed to be associated with them.
The logical extension of this result is clearly that Scotland gets to decide on whether it wants independence and that there is much greater devolution of power within England to those areas that want it. London would be an obvious example. That must be what taking power back from the elite means in practice.
Comments
Still don't get it or don't want to admit it.
(* that's Diploma of Imperial College, NOT Drunk In Charge!)
Exciting. For years we have been recalcitrant followers of whatever Germany and France wants to do. We have a huge opportunity here to set a new path to success.
I do agree that common sense will win the day. The problem is that this means a lot of Leave voters are going to be sorely disappointed. In the end, it is clear that Boris or whoever is not going to do anything that will put the City of big business at a disadvantage. If we do suffer a period of sustained will it be worth it if what we end up with is pretty much what we have now?
https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/746349831153672192
If I had known it would piss Hilary off i would have tried even harder
Or intelligent people with degrees can't get their arguments together to convince dumb fucks with no degrees?
Keep up the sneering, there's a good chap.
The other person is in favour of open borders which are neutral or help the working class (limited migration of skilled workers who'll create jobs for the working class).
I hope the OAPs that won this for Brexit are now ready to build this vibrant, dynamic new independent UK I keep hearing about!
we could have that second renegotiation we werent promised and send in a negotiation team that means it
even Martin Schulz says they werent serious last time
When the world's 5th biggest economy says Eff EU - it matters. The US news is awash with Brexit and the parallels it portends for November - mostly of a Main Street vs Wall Street type. Bet Hillary is pissed off with us.
Congratulations by the way on calling the result. I hoped you were right but didn't actually think you were (the opposite to you own position I suppose). It has to make you one of the best tipsters on here.
Looking forward, I think it behoves all of us to make the best of the situation we are now in, and I sincerely hope the Labour party can get their act together. We now more than ever need a credible opposition party.
I guess people who say: "there might be some hard times on the way, but it's worth it," are rather well insulated from those hard times.
FTSE100 now trading higher than it was in February when Cameron called the referendum.
source Skynews 3.50pm
We now cant put too much store on Betfair.
It was weird at the count seeing things so much for leave and also seeing most areas for leave doing better than Hanrattys spreeadheet , that the betfair mob didnt want to accept the inevitable untill last knockings.
Maybe we should not use them as OGH did as a barometer any more?
I really hope that all PBers make sure their money is protected under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. The maximum in any one account is £75000.
I hope everyone got on this
I am in my late 40's so from a purely economic point of view I am thinking of the next 20 years not the next 20 weeks or months.
Like most I would have been happy with an outer core relationship with Europe, but Cameron said we couldn't have that and the Innercore were too inflexible in their demand for ever closer Union , so Leave it had to be.
That doesnt of course fix the many weaknesses this country face most of which you and I agree on - though we differ on how best to approach them - but if this forces our business and political elites to re-engage with their workforces and voters it will be a good start.
You seem to want to ignore the fact that London decisively voted Remain and that large parts did so by a landslide. The getters have been overruled by the spenders.
The mood in London is one of open consternation: just how could so many little Englanders have been so stupid?
The older the voter, the more likely they were to vote to leave: 60% of those aged 65 or more voted to leave, while nearly three-quarters of 18-to-24-year- olds voted to remain.
A large majority of those whose formal education ended at secondary school level voted to leave, while 67% of those with a university degree and 64% with a higher degree voted to remain. More than four-fifths of those voters still in full-time eduction voted to remain.
Those with less to lose voted for Brexit essentially.
Buyers remorse really isn't going to be much of a challenge: i think we can all see now that the moves in the market simply don't support the doom-mongers contentions. in truth, they never did.
SAVE CORBYN
Faisal Islam has also not covered himself in glory (particularly over the Warsi business). Shame there aren't more journalists of Andrew Neil's calibre.
A bit basic for most PBers, but I wrote a concise summary of what happened and may happen next (trying to be objective) on my blog:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-uk-has-voted-to-leave-eu.html
I'm not going to post about politics regularly, but this is a pretty momentous day.
A better barometer of the extent of the shock is to look at the performance of the banks (don 15% or so), or to look at the FTSE250.
This time next month we will all be bored and missing the excitement of the campaign
http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/britain-leaves-what-now/
GE2015. London Mayor and now the Referendum.
Cameron stood there smiling while Barry threatened the very people who just a few months earlier had put him there.
And then they just carried on and on and on and on and on... With Project Fear.
Britain will be fine. I reckon the future for my children will be more democratic and happier.
And for all the gnashing and wailing re Wales being a next beneficiary, yes, I'd accept - though some don't - that we are a beneficiary when all the infrastructure spending is added up. But by how much? 50m Euros at most, annually? It's peanuts.
"Congratulations by the way on calling the result."
Who needs the pollsters when you're around? Cheer up, things are never as dark as they seem. I'm sure a few Brexiteers woke up with a feeling of "What have we done?". After 41 years, that's natural.
The old gits remember how we got here and know the dangers are over-egged. Why else would a normally risk-averse demographic vote for change while the weedy kids are peeing themselves? That, and the fact that they've endured ongoing insults for years. It's the old white men that are the problem, remember?
Mr. Betting, seconded. Mr. Chestnut's posts have been of great interest.
I think anybody who has ever read The Smartest Guys in the Room knows how fucking smart the smart guys really are.
I am so angry that I'd better leave here now for a while to plan my next move. The only good thing is that I made quite a lot of money betting on Leave to win, at an overall price of between 2.5 and 3.
Cheerio everyone. And don't leave more than £75K in any one account
I am upset we have lost, but the ugly attitudes from my fellow Remainers makes me ashamed to be associated with them.
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/a-vote-of-confidence-in-jeremy-corbyn-after-brexit