politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first challenge for the BREXIT team – dealing with buye
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Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.0
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It's way too soon to know whether this will prove to be an economic mistake or not. Let's see how the Brexiters square the Freedom of Movement / Single Market dilemma before we conclude we are coming out of this "stronger". Today is the high point for Leave, enjoy it while you can.MaxPB said:
We had an "expert currency trader" on here, can't remember his name, who was adamant that Sterling would fall to parity levels with EUR and hit 1.05 with USD. Cicero of this parish also has given some outlandish views of market movements that didn't materialise today, yet he is still her trying to spread doom and gloom.OllyT said:
You might be wise to wait to see whether they were right or not before tell;ing them to shut up.JennyFreeman said:
exactly.Chelyabinsk said:How does it follow from the information given here that "many voted for LEAVE because they thought it wouldn’t happen"? I suspect most Leavers did the same as me: voted for the result they wanted, but expected others to lose their nerve in the booth. It just happens that the public as a whole is more staunch than we expected.
I hope 'experts' will stop spouting crap and be a bit more humble. not holding my breath though
It will be a bumpy ride, but this nation has been through worse and we will come out stronger and with a better democracy for it. The centre of power has moved one step closer to voters for a very large number of issues and we're no longer under ECJ jurisdiction. That is worth whatever comes out way IMO.0 -
It's clear from the posts here that people underestimate the importance of the EU to Ireland. Membership is part of it's becoming a confident, self-reliant and massively ambitious country a world away from the pre-membership Ireland. There's no talk of nostalgia for the Punt.kle4 said:
Ireland seems like it would do so very unwillingly, feels like at the least cordial relations might take a bit. They'd see us a giant diseased ape living in their house that keeps ruining things for anyone they bring home, but they can't afford the rent on any other place.anotherDave said:
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.kle4 said:If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.
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You can be an amateur and an expert.Alanbrooke said:
The experts spinners lost to the amateursSouthamObserver said:
Yep. Those experts again. Turns out we need them.Thrak said:All those people saying Carney was toast, his public and behind the scenes work appears to have, at least temporarily, helped shore things up.
The expert pollsters called it wrong
The City experts cost their customers billions
The problem with most experts is it appears they aren't
It looks very much to me like the experts have been planning in a fair amount of detail for the scenario that has unfolded. And their plans are working as well as we could hope.
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The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless0
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A very persistent one!logical_song said:Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-366246970 -
They can't survive Eurozone moves towards tax harmonisation, the UK was their key ally to block that.kle4 said:
Ireland seems like it would do so very unwillingly, feels like at the least cordial relations might take a bit. They'd see us a giant diseased ape living in their house that keeps ruining things for anyone they bring home, but they can't afford the rent on any other place.anotherDave said:
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.kle4 said:If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.0 -
Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.0 -
Maybe they're better off sticking to the knitting than making predictions.SouthamObserver said:
Yep. Those experts again. Turns out we need them.Thrak said:All those people saying Carney was toast, his public and behind the scenes work appears to have, at least temporarily, helped shore things up.
In any case, the polling experts have taking a beating again - hard to see how that industry can be taking seriously.
And the experts piling in on betfair or buying up the pound at 10pm last night don't seem quite as clever right now.0 -
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.Alanbrooke said:
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.HurstLlama said:
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).PlatoSaid said:
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.Omnium said:it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.0 -
Deleted - double post God knows how0
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But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/0 -
What ever happened to the much touted 2 speed Europe, I could have been happy with that,RochdalePioneers said:The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless
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It was good to see that, despite the Chancellor's overblown rhetoric, the Governor and the BoE were well prepared for the scenario that unfolded.Thrak said:All those people saying Carney was toast, his public and behind the scenes work appears to have, at least temporarily, helped shore things up.
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In which case the constant diet of lies from Remain - there are no plans - was simply scaremongering. And not even very good scaremongering.SouthamObserver said:
You can be an amateur and an expert.Alanbrooke said:
The experts spinners lost to the amateursSouthamObserver said:
Yep. Those experts again. Turns out we need them.Thrak said:All those people saying Carney was toast, his public and behind the scenes work appears to have, at least temporarily, helped shore things up.
The expert pollsters called it wrong
The City experts cost their customers billions
The problem with most experts is it appears they aren't
It looks very much to me like the experts have been planning in a fair amount of detail for the scenario that has unfolded. And their plans are working as well as we could hope.
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Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
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There is no way on God's earth that Ireland is going to leave the EU. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring 800 years of history, as well as displaying zero knowledge of the country that Ireland is today.kle4 said:
Ireland seems like it would do so very unwillingly, feels like at the least cordial relations might take a bit. They'd see us a giant diseased ape living in their house that keeps ruining things for anyone they bring home, but they can't afford the rent on any other place.anotherDave said:
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.kle4 said:If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.
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You may have missed the thrust of my point - I don't know if they could survive such a thing, you may well be right, but I doubt them being forced out because they needed us as an ally or whatever, would result in particularly harmonious relations. They fought hard to not be dragged along by us, They asked us not to do this, even if EU moves without us force them out, we'd get the blame I fear.anotherDave said:
They can't survive Eurozone moves towards tax harmonisation, the UK was their key ally to block that.kle4 said:
Ireland seems like it would do so very unwillingly, feels like at the least cordial relations might take a bit. They'd see us a giant diseased ape living in their house that keeps ruining things for anyone they bring home, but they can't afford the rent on any other place.anotherDave said:
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.kle4 said:If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.0 -
Except ICM and TNS?TudorRose said:
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
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Cameron said he got it. Brexiters denied it.SimonStClare said:
What ever happened to the much touted 2 speed Europe, I could have been happy with that,RochdalePioneers said:The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless
In my view (as a reluctant remainer) some of the EU did not believe in it.
They might now wish they did.0 -
Ireland depends on tax competition. That's not popular with other eurozone countries.FF43 said:
For different reasons I think neither is likely. Economically, Denmark is an extension of Germany. That is not a disparaging remark about a proudly independent country that has suffered from its bigger neighbour on occasion. Ireland does too well from business opportunities coming from a smart and flexible member of the EU and the Eurozone. It's going to pick up a chunk of the business fleeing from the City of London.anotherDave said:
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.kle4 said:If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.
Denmark seems to be as/more unhappy about EU membership than us. Without us as another non-eurozone ally they may find the EU even more uncomfortable.0 -
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London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.0 -
AgreedSimonStClare said:
What ever happened to the much touted 2 speed Europe, I could have been happy with that,RochdalePioneers said:The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless
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Yep - I think we can both agree that lies were the staple of the campaign.Alanbrooke said:
In which case the constant diet of lies from Remain - there are no plans - was simply scaremongering. And not even very good scaremongering.SouthamObserver said:
You can be an amateur and an expert.Alanbrooke said:
The experts spinners lost to the amateursSouthamObserver said:
Yep. Those experts again. Turns out we need them.Thrak said:All those people saying Carney was toast, his public and behind the scenes work appears to have, at least temporarily, helped shore things up.
The expert pollsters called it wrong
The City experts cost their customers billions
The problem with most experts is it appears they aren't
It looks very much to me like the experts have been planning in a fair amount of detail for the scenario that has unfolded. And their plans are working as well as we could hope.
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I got my alcohol strategy completely wrong last night. I blame Newcastle.HurstLlama said:
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.Alanbrooke said:
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.HurstLlama said:
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).PlatoSaid said:
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.Omnium said:it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.0 -
Dunno Mr L I might need to drink something French as I might never be able to acquire a bottle ever again now that it's Brexit :-)HurstLlama said:
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.Alanbrooke said:
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.HurstLlama said:
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).PlatoSaid said:
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.Omnium said:it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.0 -
Nice speech, man!Patrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
And the Donald is coming in on BF.
I said these were intertwined...0 -
Perhaps very little, except that the powerful now have some awareness of what, previously, was festering out of their sight & hearing. They will be remarkably stupid if they continue to ignore the people concerned.SouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?AnneJGP said:
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.AlastairMeeks said:They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.
I am finding myself haunted by those charts showing where support for Remain/Leave came from. You couldn't wish for a clearer illustration of the haves and the have-nots.
It would be good if ABs in general became more aware that the people they so much look down on are still, actually, people.
I am hopeful that it may at least give the Labour party cause to re-think their priorities.0 -
The powerful people in London are only powerful as long as the British people accept their rule & the British people have the ability to make the powerful people powerless.SouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?AnneJGP said:
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.AlastairMeeks said:They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.
The key difference is that the British people have no power to remove the powerful people in Brussels.0 -
Sky repeating the Morgan Stanley lie.0
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I don't think The Donald will put us to the Back of the Queue!Patrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
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That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?HurstLlama said:
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.Alanbrooke said:
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.HurstLlama said:
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).PlatoSaid said:
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.Omnium said:it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.
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and it will annoy the ass off SturgeonPatrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
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Had we not seen the ECJ take action previously (e.g. Denmark post-Maastricht) to strike down non-treaty-based agreements, maybe people would have trusted Cameron a little more.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron said he got it. Brexiters denied it.SimonStClare said:
What ever happened to the much touted 2 speed Europe, I could have been happy with that,RochdalePioneers said:The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless
In my view (as a reluctant remainer) some of the EU did not believe in it.
They might now wish they did.
Water under the bridge now.0 -
Bien sur!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Except ICM and TNS?TudorRose said:
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/0 -
I feel your pain, Bob. I find time to be the great healer. Hang in there my friend.Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
PS mosques or morges?0 -
Mr. StClare, I would likely have voted for that. It's said Juncker offered an associate membership to Cameron, but the latter wanted to 'permanently dock' the UK to the EU.
Which went about as well as Varro's battle plan for Cannae.0 -
The online polls really didn't do badly.TudorRose said:
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/0 -
Who knows. Perhaps non-EU Europe will become a greater success for them than the EU was.kle4 said:
You may have missed the thrust of my point - I don't know if they could survive such a thing, you may well be right, but I doubt them being forced out because they needed us as an ally or whatever, would result in particularly harmonious relations. They fought hard to not be dragged along by us, They asked us not to do this, even if EU moves without us force them out, we'd get the blame I fear.anotherDave said:
They can't survive Eurozone moves towards tax harmonisation, the UK was their key ally to block that.kle4 said:
Ireland seems like it would do so very unwillingly, feels like at the least cordial relations might take a bit. They'd see us a giant diseased ape living in their house that keeps ruining things for anyone they bring home, but they can't afford the rent on any other place.anotherDave said:
Ireland and Denmark only joined the EU on our coat-tails. It's not a stretch to see them follow us out too.kle4 said:If I had to bet, I would actually suggest there will not be other countries leaving the EU. The EU is great at fudging solutions - not that these solve problems long term - when their backs are really to the wall. Clearly many leavers didn't even think leave would win, and I doubt the EU did too. Now they know it has happened here and can happen elsewhere, they will pull out the stops to prevent this becoming a trend.
It is a glorious tragedy that it may be that it was simply not possible to get a more flexible EU such as even many Leavers wanted, until someone, in this case us, actually Left.
I'm sure the CFP is unpopular in Ireland if nothing else.0 -
If the EU is such a worthy institution it should be capable of overcoming the challenges it faces and demonstrate its worth to people. Media distortion, closemindedness, campaign lies or whatever, doesn't excuse it's utter failure to justify its existence to the UK, instead taking us for granted.0
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Good to see you posting again Mr Jessop, hope you are well on the way to a full recovery.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron said he got it. Brexiters denied it.SimonStClare said:
What ever happened to the much touted 2 speed Europe, I could have been happy with that,RochdalePioneers said:The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless
In my view (as a reluctant remainer) some of the EU did not believe in it.
They might now wish they did.0 -
I don't think it would be wise to do anything other than take what he says with a big pinch of salt.GIN1138 said:
I don't think The Donald will put us to the Back of the Queue!Patrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
0 -
Utterly mad for him to turn that down, if true?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. StClare, I would likely have voted for that. It's said Juncker offered an associate membership to Cameron, but the latter wanted to 'permanently dock' the UK to the EU.
Which went about as well as Varro's battle plan for Cannae.0 -
They're still running with the "Worst FTSE opening for 30 years" headlines. It's now over 6200, less than 2% off on the day and higher than it closed a week ago. Cable (£/$) is 1.38 - it was 1.39 in March!maaarsh said:FTSE100 now down around 1.75% and steadily rising. It's now the worst fall in 10 days, so lots of journalists have some rewriting to do.
0 -
The petition for a debate on a 2nd referendum passes the threshold0
-
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
0 -
Not any more than having to hold out the begging bowl to himAlanbrooke said:
and it will annoy the ass off SturgeonPatrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.0 -
You're a hoot!:)Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
0 -
I took mine and his 2 mates to school this morning as they had a knock-out cricket match and they were upbeat and fine.Jonathan said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
2 of them want to live in Australia and the other in USA-they are not especially fussed about EU one way or the other.
But i am sure we can out anecdote each other all day.0 -
Maybe they could try respecting the will of the people as has been demonstrated, and pledging to work constructively to try to ensure that the UK has a successful future outside the EU?Jonathan said:
Or they could just keep on Vaz-style, asking why the little people didn't listen to their elders and betters?
0 -
.SouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man in favour of open borders is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man who is in favour of open borders. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?AnneJGP said:
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.AlastairMeeks said:They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.0 -
The US news is awash with Brexit and the parallels it portends for November - mostly of a Main Street vs Wall Street type. Bet Hillary is pissed off with us.
Nice speech, man!
And the Donald is coming in on BF.
I said these were intertwined...0 -
We can remove individuals, but the next group of leaders will always come from the same circles of power and influence. One Etonian being replaced by another is not a revolution, it is an orderly and controlled regime change directed by and from within the Establishment.vik said:
The powerful people in London are only powerful as long as the British people accept their rule & the British people have the ability to make the powerful people powerless.SouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?AnneJGP said:
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.AlastairMeeks said:They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.
The key difference is that the British people have no power to remove the powerful people in Brussels.
0 -
Got to say Mr O, commiserations since I know you were a strong remainer, but it's a fine weekend and a new departure for us all. Common sense will win through.SouthamObserver said:
That's a fine effort. How far through it are you?HurstLlama said:
To be honest, Mr. Brooke, I doubted we would do it this time, but we did.Alanbrooke said:
Llama man, I never thought we'd do it.HurstLlama said:
Miss Plato, the seven(?) stages of grief. First comes denial, then anger and so on. This site is full of it today. The BBC and Sky are perhaps still at stage one as are some on here (though most of those grieving seem to have progressed to stage 2 very quickly).PlatoSaid said:
Both the BBC and Sky are still trying to win it for Remain. It's most entertaining - and very obvious.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has anybody told them the referendum is over? Perhaps they are still in shock.Omnium said:it's outrageous that the BBC (or anyone else) ran the Morgan Stanley story without (apparently) asking the firm.
Cheers, I'll be opening a bottle tonight
And do you know the best thing about it - those C2DEs from the council estate that I saw at the polling station. The ones that never normally vote, "Because the bloody Tories always get on around here". For once they were allowed to express their view and have it heard.
I hope the bottle you open this evening will be something nice, a RidgeView rose for example. I see Waitrose are selling the Bolney Estate rose but at £12.99, which I think is rather overpriced for what is a good but not outstanding wine. Speaking for myself I cracked a bottle of Laphroaig at about 04:00 in celebration and am still sipping at it.0 -
This whole affair is like some ghastly spin-off from the Book of Job. Lord, why are you testing us like this?SouthamObserver said:
I don't think it would be wise to do anything other than take what he says with a big pinch of salt.GIN1138 said:
I don't think The Donald will put us to the Back of the Queue!Patrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
I don't want to be on the same 'side' as Mr Trump, much as I appreciate his sentiments. Trump in the White House scares the shit out of me, I keep getting flashbacks to "The Dead Zone".0 -
Correction: I mean morgues in the second line of my post below.0
-
He was calling for a rerun if it was a 52/48 result a few days ago.logical_song said:Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-366246970 -
"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of EU Directives entering UK Law, until the Great British Public's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on!"RodCrosby said:
Nice speech, man!Patrick said:Trump has just said this at a press conference:
The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union, and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.
Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
If he gets the presidency it is at least good that the implications of Brexit for us with respect to the USA will be notably better than if we get Obama Mk2.
And the Donald is coming in on BF.
I said these were intertwined...0 -
Bet Cameron is wishing he had listened to Sturgeon with the four-countries requirementAlistair said:
He was calling for a rerun if it was a 52/48 result a few days ago.logical_song said:Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36624697 0 -
The guy is a disgrace. Not just to his country, but to his party and his supporters.Alistair said:
He was calling for a rerun if it was a 52/48 result a few days ago.logical_song said:Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-366246970 -
It died when the none Euro using counter weight left at 5am this morning..SimonStClare said:
What ever happened to the much touted 2 speed Europe, I could have been happy with that,RochdalePioneers said:The EU will quickly become a Euro-only entity. If it wants the Euro to survive. Our refusal to join means we'd have been out regardless
0 -
Isn't one a sub set of the other ??TudorRose said:
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/0 -
The will of the people is utterly divided, split straight down the middle. You're right, that needs to be respected.LucyJones said:
Maybe they could try respecting the will of the people as has been demonstrated, and pledging to work constructively to try to ensure that the UK has a successful future outside the EU?Jonathan said:
Or they could just keep on Vaz-style, asking why the little people didn't listen to their elders and betters?0 -
You never know, you might get jobatwobob now - you chooseMonikerDiCanio said:
I feel your pain, Bob. I find time to be the great healer. Hang in there my friend.Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.0 -
ABs are the only class Remain won.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/0 -
Mr. D, indeed. Cameron's problem is that he seems to (after the 2015 result) bought his own bullshit. There was little effort to persuade, it was more a mixture of hyperbolic scare stories and cajoling.
I would've liked to vote Remain. Had a deal for trade but not the political tosh been on the table, I would've likely voted for that.
Instead there was a deal which amounted to an insult (exacerbated by Cameron pretending it was worth a damn) and two terrible campaigns.
Cameron and Blair both had such opportunities, and both failed. Is Brown 'better' for being consistently shit?
I'll be glad when the Angeli dynasty comes to an end. A few Comneni leaders would not go amiss [early ones, please].0 -
Yep, people in the office are very quiet today. Very reflective and pretty pensive sums it up. No Friday feeling here The email from the CEO didn't really cheer us up. The leaders of the Leave team scare me - very worrying times ahead. Cannot see a quick mend as this result was very polarising. Time will tell as ever if my pessimism bears fruit.Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.0 -
Khan is our only hope. He needs to show strong leadership. The city is hurting.tyson said:
My wife's colleagues in London are in tears, as too is my wife. My sister said that her colleagues at school are just really terrified for the future. I've had so many emails from people who are just devastated....some Tories too.Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.0 -
The people replacing the current people in charge supported this and will do absolutely nothing to change it.AnneJGP said:
Perhaps very little, except that the powerful now have some awareness of what, previously, was festering out of their sight & hearing. They will be remarkably stupid if they continue to ignore the people concerned.SouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?AnneJGP said:
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.AlastairMeeks said:They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.
I am finding myself haunted by those charts showing where support for Remain/Leave came from. You couldn't wish for a clearer illustration of the haves and the have-nots.
It would be good if ABs in general became more aware that the people they so much look down on are still, actually, people.
I am hopeful that it may at least give the Labour party cause to re-think their priorities.
https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/737525064199856128
0 -
Mr. JS, I'm very surprised at the gender non-split.0
-
This is not about today, this is about next week and the months and years ahead.Sandpit said:
They're still running with the "Worst FTSE opening for 30 years" headlines. It's now over 6200, less than 2% off on the day and higher than it closed a week ago. Cable (£/$) is 1.38 - it was 1.39 in March!maaarsh said:FTSE100 now down around 1.75% and steadily rising. It's now the worst fall in 10 days, so lots of journalists have some rewriting to do.
0 -
What was the content of your CEO's letter?murali_s said:
Yep, people in the office are very quiet today. Very reflective and pretty pensive sums it up. No Friday feeling here The email from the CEO didn't really cheer us up. The leaders of the Leave team scare me - very worrying times ahead. Cannot see a quick mend as this result was very polarising. Time will tell as ever if my pessimism bears fruit.Jobabob said:
London is on its knees today. Workplaces are like mosques. People are shellshocked. Khan may have a chance here too negotiate some sort of deal with the EU that gives Gtr London a special status – although Lord knows what that looks like.taffys said:Son back from school with 'atmosphere of despair'. Not okay.
It is a bitter pill that Britain is very divided.
It's even more bitter that the solution is not obvious.
Scotland will probably leave the UK.
How your area repairs itself (assuming you are in Wales from your user name) I have no idea.
A sad, sad day.0 -
The US news is awash with Brexit and the parallels it portends for November - mostly of a Main Street vs Wall Street type. Bet Hillary is pissed off with us.Patrick said:
Nice speech, man!
And the Donald is coming in on BF.
I said these were intertwined...
Trump will ride this wave.
"Look at the Brits. Their leaders LIED to them. Just like Crooked, Lyin', Low-Down Clinton is lying to you. They knew it was do or die. It was their last chance to take back control from the elites, from political correctness, from open borders, from terrorists. Are we going to remain the Stupid people, or act smart, like our special ally, the British?"0 -
Didn't we have an equally nonsensical one about the Tories not really winning the GE.Scott_P said:The petition for a debate on a 2nd referendum passes the threshold
Oh god get off the tv Bad Al. People like you had a significant impact on causing the disquiet in the first place.0 -
That does put the petition business in a slightly different light - before any Leavers feel the urge to sneer, a similar petition, probably arguing it was so close and lies in the campaign or the Cox effect swung it, justified a rerun, would have been set up by some people. There can be no doubt of that.Alistair said:
He was calling for a rerun if it was a 52/48 result a few days ago.logical_song said:Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-366246970 -
People who didn't realise Cameron would resign within hours if Leave won are extremely stupid.
What we need now is a big fall in stupidity. But we won't get it. As for the pollsters, the best thing to do now is to put your fingers in your ears and go "la" when they say how they've learnt this or that lesson from their humiliating failure. "Experts" and "geeks" who discuss political scenarios mostly won't get it either, any more than the hoi polloi will from whom they like to differentiate themselves.
The schizo character of British culture will get ramped up. Big-time.
Internationally the future bodes well for Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, Vladimir Putin.
Economic collapse was coming anyway. The danger is widespread fascism and a major war. Most people haven't a clue what has happened. They didn't understand the psychopolitics.
One thing that's remarkable is how "oil price experts" say the price of oil is bound to go down for a long time. Yeah right. There will probably be petrol rationing at two or more times the existing price within months.0 -
Mr Tyson,
My three-year-old grandson cried himself to sleep last night - and he's in Australia. Even the worms in my garden are terrified. The leaves on the tree were shaking with anguish, although that could be wind.
How will we survive when the undead prowl and the wardrobe monster arrives? No, it's all too horrible to bear. Goodbye cruel world.0 -
The same can be said for the ABs who sneer about the 'ruling class' (witness all the stupid toff and Eton nonsense).AnneJGP said:(Snip)
It would be good if ABs in general became more aware that the people they so much look down on are still, actually, people.(Snip)0 -
Don't forget the registration deadline thing.kle4 said:
That does put the petition business in a slightly different light - before any Leavers feel the urge to sneer, a similar petition, probably arguing it was so close and lies in the campaign or the Cox effect swung it, justified a rerun, would have been set up by some people. There can be no doubt of that.Alistair said:
He was calling for a rerun if it was a 52/48 result a few days ago.logical_song said:Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-366246970 -
Except for PopulusWilliam_H said:
The online polls really didn't do badly.TudorRose said:
But why are people still citing polls as if they provide evidence of anything. One of the definite conclusions we can reach from yesterday is that only fools and currency dealers trust the polls.AndyJS said:There was no gender gap: both men and women voted 52/48.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
0 -
Weasel words perhaps? "begun the process of moving jobs" and "hasn’t started moving staff out of London. "FrancisUrquhart said:Sky repeating the Morgan Stanley lie.
0 -
Young Rees-Mogg is the man to send to the USA and calm the waters.RodCrosby said:
Trump will ride this wave.Patrick said:
Nice speech, man!
And the Donald is coming in on BF.
I said these were intertwined...
The US news is awash with Brexit and the parallels it portends for November - mostly of a Main Street vs Wall Street type. Bet Hillary is pissed off with us.
"Look at the Brits. Their leaders LIED to them. Just like Crooked, Lyin', Low-Down Clinton is lying to you. They knew it was do or die. It was their last chance to take back control from the elites, from political correctness, from open borders, from terrorists. Are we going to remain the Stupid people, or act smart, like our special ally, the British?"0 -
Sandpit said:
They're still running with the "Worst FTSE opening for 30 years" headlines. It's now over 6200, less than 2% off on the day and higher than it closed a week ago. Cable (£/$) is 1.38 - it was 1.39 in March!maaarsh said:FTSE100 now down around 1.75% and steadily rising. It's now the worst fall in 10 days, so lots of journalists have some rewriting to do.
Incompetence or bias?Sandpit said:
They're still running with the "Worst FTSE opening for 30 years" headlines. It's now over 6200, less than 2% off on the day and higher than it closed a week ago. Cable (£/$) is 1.38 - it was 1.39 in March!maaarsh said:FTSE100 now down around 1.75% and steadily rising. It's now the worst fall in 10 days, so lots of journalists have some rewriting to do.
0 -
London...that vibrant, wonderful, progressive, multi cultural, young, dynamic city...the election of Khan was a positive thing, and then this.
Why weren't those fuckers rioting then when Gordon brown ratified Lisbon without a referendum? How long did they want the establishment to shit on the plebs before the plebs decided they didn't really care for it? Today's revolution, like all revolutions, was caused by a giant disconnect between the elite and the masses. Doesn't bode well for Jezza!0 -
https://twitter.com/ft/status/746224372432527360John_N4 said:What we need now is a big fall in stupidity. But we won't get it.
Need to check my Le Pen positions...0 -
Why are the BBC running stories such as these stoking fears?
Ben Thompson @BBCBenThompson 2h2 hours ago
Sources at Morgan Stanley tell BBC it's already begun process of moving 2,000 London based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt
This is the truth.
Ben Thompson @BBCBenThompson 48m48 minutes ago
Morgan Stanley denies the process to relocate staff has BEGUN but will not wait for Article 50 to be triggered before making moves.0 -
Decent explanation of why the fappers are fapping - and why Remain lost
http://heatst.com/uk/damian-thompson-british-people-have-been-lectured-and-patronised-enough-this-is-their-revenge/?mod=sm_tw_post
"Ordinary people are sick to death of self-important quangos, pointless industry regulations, BBC bias, university thought police, smug media vicars, social workers disguised as police chiefs, political activists disguised as teachers, pontificating celebrities… the list goes on and on, and there seemed no way the public could fight this network of finger-waggers."0 -
You make a good point about the likely change of PM.Alistair said:
.SouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see the powerful are still in charge. And one extremely privileged man in favour of open borders is likely to be replaced as PM by another extremely privileged man who is in favour of open borders. Political parties will still be able to govern on 37% of the vote and will still be able to ignore the wishes, needs and aspirations of many of those who voted to Leave. So what exactly has changed, except that we are gong to get a regime change within the establishment?AnneJGP said:
I mean no disrespect, Alastair, but the boot is rather on the other foot. The cover has been taken off the bed that the powerful made for the weak in our society to lie on - and released a swarm of biting insects.AlastairMeeks said:They've made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it.
Sadly, so are the rest of us.
Could be that Boris is to Cameron what Brown was to Blair.0 -
According to this,
Average of the FTSE100 over the last 12 months is around 6150
Currently it's 61800 -
Given it has been denied, can we take the Ben Thompson tweet about Morgan Stanley out the header perhaps?0
-
Because racismTGOHF said:Decent explanation of why the fappers are fapping - and why Remain lost
0
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