politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn found his voice on Thursday. Unfortunately, it was e

glw said:

another_richard said:

Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.

Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.

I'm fairly certain that makes Osborne's running of the economy worse than the Treasury's own forecast for the the effects of Brexit. Which does amply demonstrate two things, 1) forecasts are crap in the short term never mind the long term, and 2) in the grand scheme of things the effects of Brexit are not that significant. A half-decent Chancellor could make more of a difference to the economy in the long term, and finding a great Chancellor and government is far more important than anything the EU can do for us.

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

A thought on this day marked by the news on Muhammed Ali. Is the Vote Leave strategy a Rope-a-Dope strategy? For the first 15 weeks they lean on the ropes and duck and dive all of the REMAIN attacks and once these are spent, then LEAVE mount a counter attack against a tired REMAIN campaign.

Interesting concept but with postal votes out that could be risky couldn't it?

Roger said:

blackburn63 said:

Roger said:

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

A life of penury but it's gotta be worth it!

penury: extreme poverty.

What a fuckin idiot you are

The authentic voice of a Faragista. Have we got a lot to look forward to.

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

A thought on this day marked by the news on Muhammed Ali. Is the Vote Leave strategy a Rope-a-Dope strategy? For the first 15 weeks they lean on the ropes and duck and dive all of the REMAIN attacks and once these are spent, then LEAVE mount a counter attack against a tired REMAIN campaign.

Interesting concept but with postal votes out that could be risky couldn't it?

Presumably thats why Australian Rules Immigration and VAT on fuel were deployed to turn the tide just before the postal votes turned up over the last two days.

Also. I think postal voters who are unsure will sit on tbeir ballot papers a while

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

Roger said:

blackburn63 said:

Roger said:

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

A life of penury but it's gotta be worth it!

penury: extreme poverty.

What a fuckin idiot you are

The authentic voice of a Faragista. Have we got a lot to look forward to.

If you dont like it then suggest you head for the nearest Sealink terminal

justin124 said:

David_Evershed said:

justin124 said:

edmundintokyo said:

DavidL said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

Scott_P said:

OldKingCole said:

I am constantly surprised at Michael Gove talking about VAT reductions, tons more money for the NHS etc when he is a member of a Government that increased VAT and has effectively restricted spending by the NHS.

It seems a tad hypocritical!

Incidentally, I’ve just been on a senior citizens web forum where the only comments about the EU are for Remain.

It did not go unnoticed

@RhonddaBryant: Gove is fibbing. He doesn't want to cut VAT.
https://t.co/whtorXHn7K

Maybe he dosent - but Labour did want to abolish vat on fuel but the EU would not let them. We are not voting for gove in thus referendum we are voting so that whoever we vote for in 2020 can aboliah VAT on fuel if that is whst the electorate desire.

Did they? With that environmental fanatic Ed Miliband at Environment? They kept it well hidden if they did.

The government put it up when they were in opposition and they affected to oppose it, and want to bring it back down.

But Labour has reduced VAT in the past. In his July 1974 mini -Budget Denis Healey cut the rate from 10% to 8% - a level at which it remained until Howe raised it to 15% in June 1979.

That was when 365 economists wrote to the Times to say that Chancellor Howe was running the country into the ground with his austerity programme.

365 economist proved to be wrong and Howe right.

No- that letter was in 1981 and many of those economists do not accept that they were wrong.

viewcode said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

HYUFD said:

Estobar said:

Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.

It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.

Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.

There is the British Masters of course

And we have not the British Queen but THE Queen.

Doesn't the passport say "Her Brittanic Majesty"?

David_Evershed said:

viewcode said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

HYUFD said:

Estobar said:

Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.

It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.

Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.

There is the British Masters of course

And we have not the British Queen but THE Queen.

Doesn't the passport say "Her Brittanic Majesty"?

Is that on an EU passport?

Charles said:

Just thinking about this Trump visit.

I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).

He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.

The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).

All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"

You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.

Just needs Trump to be disciplined...

another_richard said:

glw said:

another_richard said:

Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.

Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.

I'm fairly certain that makes Osborne's running of the economy worse than the Treasury's own forecast for the the effects of Brexit. Which does amply demonstrate two things, 1) forecasts are crap in the short term never mind the long term, and 2) in the grand scheme of things the effects of Brexit are not that significant. A half-decent Chancellor could make more of a difference to the economy in the long term, and finding a great Chancellor and government is far more important than anything the EU can do for us.

Indeed.

The biggest long term effects are rarely predicted - we're still dealing with the effects of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait 26 years ago for example.

Likewise the productivity stagnation of the last decade, which nobody predicted, has effectively trashed all the long term models upon which government plans and pension predictions are based.

SandyRentool said:

If we vote Leave can we bring back proper money?

And pay for petrol by the gallon?

Anecdote - student on work placement with us said he still needs to apply for a postal vote. Let's see if he actually gets round to it.

David_Evershed said:

PlatoSaid said:

david_herdson said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MarkSenior said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MarkSenior said:

Blue_rog said:

I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.

When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .

Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!

Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .

Remind me how many seats the extremely pro-EU LibDems lost at the General Election. Ta.

The "extremely pro-EU LibDems" have been notable by their absence during the referendum.

Can honestly say I've not seen Tim Farron or any other LD MP on the TV. Not once. And given I see a disproportionate % of rolling news, that's quite a feat.

This, of course, is the choice of the media not the Lib Dems.

On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.

PlatoSaid said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

PlatoSaid said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/could-the-vote-leave-strategy-work/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I think Remain are missing the point - deliberately. And the more Remainers say it's the wrong thing to focus on, the more I'm inclined to think it actually is.
Immigration isn't as Remainers like to portray it Get The Darkies Out, it's about pressure on house prices, rents, maternity services, school places, our culture, jobs and prospects and on and on and on.
I've no problem whatsoever with importing smart articulate people from anywhere on the globe if that helps our nation to succeed. I object strongly to opportunist whatevers who don't raise the bar.

The other point is that REMAIN believe a strategy of 19 weeks on the economy (stupid) will engage voters and think that 4 weeks on immigration is going to switch off voters.

Alistair Campbell on Newsnight said that REMAIN should stick to one strategy to win. I guess he must by now have learned from the elvis impersonator stunt at GE2010?

As we've seen on here, Remain and Leave have two entirely different value sets. They're talking different languages and neither gets the other.

I'd happily lose economically, if we had control over our borders, law and national identity. I believe very strongly that the EU is a ball and chain on our prospects. I've no doubts that we'll succeed without them - we did so for 1000yrs.

Telling me that my mobile roaming bill might be a bit higher has no effect on me, nor that a footballer would need a visa or whatever - it's patronising noise.

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

If we vote Leave can we bring back proper money?

And pay for petrol by the gallon?

Anecdote - student on work placement with us said he still needs to apply for a postal vote. Let's see if he actually gets round to it.

I seriously wonder if petrol charges would have gone so high if we still bought it in gallons. Litres hid the cost and allowed much greater volatility in the price.

Blue_rog said:

DavidL said:

PlatoSaid said:

RodCrosby said:

PlatoSaid said:

Moses_ said:

SouthamObserver said:

Moses_ said:

O/t
FPT
I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one

Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?

Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.

I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.

Ah yes 2.5p
I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?

I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.

I loved threepenny bits.

A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.

A bag of crisps cost sixpence (2.5p). I remember that well. Must have eaten a lot of them...

3 for 1d sweeties like Sports Mixtures or Black Jacks. 2 1/2p Tudor crisps and 7p Creme Eggs.

It must seem so foreign to Millenials. I only use metric for very small things - nths of inches is far too messy. Imperial is much better for almost everything else. I use thumbs, hands and cubits for rough estimate stuff today - so easy and readily available.

I remember getting 8 black jacks for 1 new penny as they were called. Once I spent all of my 14p pocket money on black jacks. Seemed a great idea at the start of the week.

Yes, 4 fruit salad or black jacks for an old penny - a farthing each.

As I understand it, Guineas came about as the gentry didn't get involved with buying and selling horses but used agents instead. The extra shilling was 'commission' to the agent.

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

If we vote Leave can we bring back proper money?

And pay for petrol by the gallon?

Anecdote - student on work placement with us said he still needs to apply for a postal vote. Let's see if he actually gets round to it.

I seriously wonder if petrol charges would have gone so high if we still bought it in gallons. Litres hid the cost and allowed much greater volatility in the price.

chestnut said:

Anecdote: Big banner "Stop the EU Dictatorship" plastered across the double gates of a drive in Epping.

I doubt they are C2DE voters.

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

PlatoSaid said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

PlatoSaid said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/could-the-vote-leave-strategy-work/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I think Remain are missing the point - deliberately. And the more Remainers say it's the wrong thing to focus on, the more I'm inclined to think it actually is.
Immigration isn't as Remainers like to portray it Get The Darkies Out, it's about pressure on house prices, rents, maternity services, school places, our culture, jobs and prospects and on and on and on.
I've no problem whatsoever with importing smart articulate people from anywhere on the globe if that helps our nation to succeed. I object strongly to opportunist whatevers who don't raise the bar.

The other point is that REMAIN believe a strategy of 19 weeks on the economy (stupid) will engage voters and think that 4 weeks on immigration is going to switch off voters.

Alistair Campbell on Newsnight said that REMAIN should stick to one strategy to win. I guess he must by now have learned from the elvis impersonator stunt at GE2010?

As we've seen on here, Remain and Leave have two entirely different value sets. They're talking different languages and neither gets the other.

I'd happily lose economically, if we had control over our borders, law and national identity. I believe very strongly that the EU is a ball and chain on our prospects. I've no doubts that we'll succeed without them - we did so for 1000yrs.

Telling me that my mobile roaming bill might be a bit higher has no effect on me, nor that a footballer would need a visa or whatever - it's patronising noise.

Blue_rog said:

SouthamObserver said:

David_Evershed said:

viewcode said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

HYUFD said:

Estobar said:

Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.

It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.

Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.

There is the British Masters of course

And we have not the British Queen but THE Queen.

Doesn't the passport say "Her Brittanic Majesty"?

Is that on an EU passport?

Yep, inside front cover.

I have a cover for my passport - a proper size and black It doesn't mention the EU at all

chestnut said:

Anecdote: Big banner "Stop the EU Dictatorship" plastered across the double gates of a drive in Epping.

I doubt they are C2DE voters.

PlatoSaid said:

As we've seen on here, Remain and Leave have two entirely different value sets. They're talking different languages and neither gets the other.

Cyclefree said:

Roger said:

Cyclefree said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

Steven_Whaley said:

Charles said:

I didn't think he came across that badly in the Vice piece.

A little out of his depth and generally useless, but not a bad person.

He should use that as a campaign slogan! I think it's enough to win some votes with public trust in politicians being so low.

I have to say that I find it difficult to think of someone who hangs around with anti-semites and terrorists as "not a bad person".

You hang around with lawyers and criminals.

You have no idea who I hang around with. And as it happens I don't hang around with criminals. I represent people who are innocent until proven guilty. And most of my work these days is on the prosecution side of the fence, as it happens. I have been responsible for a number of criminals going to prison and not being given airtime in Parliament. Whereas Corbyn lobbied for a convicted anti-semite to be heard in Parliament.

Corbyn chose who he spent time with and which organisations he would chair and play a part in and at which events he spoke. And from the record it appears that he chose to spend time with and to chair organisations and play a part in organisations and speak at events where a lot of terrorists, terrorist sympathizers and anti-semites also played a part and played a role in the organisations and spoke. That says something about the choices he made and therefore the sort of person he is, IMO.

You may choose to think me a bad person because I am a lawyer investigating bad behaviour in the financial services sector. That's your prerogative. And frankly I couldn't care less. But I am not standing for public office. Corbyn is. And his choices say something about the sort of man he is and the sort of party he leads.

Can you be convicted of anti semitism?

Raed Salah was - to be specific, he was found by a court to have uttered the medieval blood libel against Jews.

Morris_Dancer said:

Miss Plato, I largely agree on values but there is an overlap (with the divide determined by how cynical one is about the EU) of those who liked the idea of remain with reform.

I like that idea, but find it incredible. The EU's not capable of changing that way, and I'd rather be governed by those who are accountable than those who are not.

PlatoSaid said:

RodCrosby said:

PlatoSaid said:

Moses_ said:

SouthamObserver said:

Moses_ said:

O/t
FPT
I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one

Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?

Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.

I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.

Ah yes 2.5p
I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?

I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.

I loved threepenny bits.

A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.

A bag of crisps cost sixpence (2.5p). I remember that well. Must have eaten a lot of them...

3 for 1d sweeties like Sports Mixtures or Black Jacks. 2 1/2p Tudor crisps and 7p Creme Eggs.

It must seem so foreign to Millenials. I only use metric for very small things - nths of inches is far too messy. Imperial is much better for almost everything else. I use thumbs, hands and cubits for rough estimate stuff today - so easy and readily available.

David_Evershed said:

Charles said:

Just thinking about this Trump visit.

I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).

He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.

The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).

All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"

You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.

Just needs Trump to be disciplined...

Trump is due to come the day after the referendum day so too late to change voting.

SouthamObserver said:

OllyT said:

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

Do you actually believe this "us, we, the people of the UK" stuff? The country is at worst evenly split when you start talking about only those people that share your opinion as being "the people" then you just sound unhinged to be honest.

I just can't get my head round the notion that people genuinely believe that the Establishment is going to suffer in some way if we vote for Brexit. It really won't.

Roger said:

Cyclefree said:

Roger said:

Cyclefree said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

Steven_Whaley said:

Charles said:

I didn't think he came across that badly in the Vice piece.

A little out of his depth and generally useless, but not a bad person.

He should use that as a campaign slogan! I think it's enough to win some votes with public trust in politicians being so low.

I have to say that I find it difficult to think of someone who hangs around with anti-semites and terrorists as "not a bad person".

You hang around with lawyers and criminals.

You have no idea who I hang around with. And as it happens I don't hang around with criminals. I represent people who are innocent until proven guilty. And most of my work these days is on the prosecution side of the fence, as it happens. I have been responsible for a number of criminals going to prison and not being given airtime in Parliament. Whereas Corbyn lobbied for a convicted anti-semite to be heard in Parliament.

Corbyn chose who he spent time with and which organisations he would chair and play a part in and at which events he spoke. And from the record it appears that he chose to spend time with and to chair organisations and play a part in organisations and speak at events where a lot of terrorists, terrorist sympathizers and anti-semites also played a part and played a role in the organisations and spoke. That says something about the choices he made and therefore the sort of person he is, IMO.

You may choose to think me a bad person because I am a lawyer investigating bad behaviour in the financial services sector. That's your prerogative. And frankly I couldn't care less. But I am not standing for public office. Corbyn is. And his choices say something about the sort of man he is and the sort of party he leads.

Can you be convicted of anti semitism?

Raed Salah was - to be specific, he was found by a court to have uttered the medieval blood libel against Jews.

Where was the court? Surely not in the UK. I think it's only a crime in certain EU countries and Israel. I cant find the conviction

PlatoSaid said:

Moses_ said:

SouthamObserver said:

Moses_ said:

O/t
FPT
I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one

Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?

Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.

I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.

Ah yes 2.5p
I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?

I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.

I loved threepenny bits.

A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.

PeterC said:

SouthamObserver said:

OllyT said:

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

Do you actually believe this "us, we, the people of the UK" stuff? The country is at worst evenly split when you start talking about only those people that share your opinion as being "the people" then you just sound unhinged to be honest.

I just can't get my head round the notion that people genuinely believe that the Establishment is going to suffer in some way if we vote for Brexit. It really won't.

They won't suffer materially, you are right. But they will suffer an epic humiliation. It is this aspect which some find attractive.

Steven_Whaley said:

PlatoSaid said:

As we've seen on here, Remain and Leave have two entirely different value sets. They're talking different languages and neither gets the other.

Exactly so. It's not just that I disagree with the arguments being put forward by Leave. It's more fundamental than that. I can't even relate to any of the points that Leave raise because there's no overlap at all between the Leave world view and my world view. It makes it hard for me to debate with Leavers when nothing they say makes any sense to me. I fully appreciate that this works both ways and that the arguments being put forward by Remain don't make any sense to Leavers either.

John_N4 said:

Are you even aware that Polish and Lithuanian building workers often work for a half or a third of British workers' wages and work long hours too?

John_N4 said:

Let me guess - your answer would be "Things have always been like that", or "That's economic reality - get used to it"?

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Miss Plato, I largely agree on values but there is an overlap (with the divide determined by how cynical one is about the EU) of those who liked the idea of remain with reform.

I like that idea, but find it incredible. The EU's not capable of changing that way, and I'd rather be governed by those who are accountable than those who are not.

I think one of the reasons Cameron has got himself in such a terrible position within his party is that too many people read into 'reform' whatever they wanted, however unrealistic it was. If anyone thought we could reconstitute the EU from the ground up into something completely different they were deluded, and as people now understand, that was never what Cameron and the majority of the political establishment in the UK wanted.

Of course not. We all know that. All they ever wanted was enough of a change to be able to sell it to the public as reform so they could then win the referendum and have the EU carry on as before on its federalist trajectory.

Cyclefree said:

PeterC said:

SouthamObserver said:

OllyT said:

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

Do you actually believe this "us, we, the people of the UK" stuff? The country is at worst evenly split when you start talking about only those people that share your opinion as being "the people" then you just sound unhinged to be honest.

I just can't get my head round the notion that people genuinely believe that the Establishment is going to suffer in some way if we vote for Brexit. It really won't.

They won't suffer materially, you are right. But they will suffer an epic humiliation. It is this aspect which some find attractive.

In a way it's a pity that there isn't an option for giving the political class, including the EU establishment, an almighty humiliation and fright and telling them to go away and renegotiate an appropriate relationship between Britain and the EU properly this time.

Mortimer said:

SouthamObserver said:

OllyT said:

blackburn63 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Mortimer said:

Moses_ said:

Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.

"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.

It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.

There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.

To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...

I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.

Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.

Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.

Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.

Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.

Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.

Do you actually believe this "us, we, the people of the UK" stuff? The country is at worst evenly split when you start talking about only those people that share your opinion as being "the people" then you just sound unhinged to be honest.

I just can't get my head round the notion that people genuinely believe that the Establishment is going to suffer in some way if we vote for Brexit. It really won't.

They'll suffer a loss of political influence, and, most importantly for me, the loss of an excuse such as 'we can't do that (eminently sensible suggestion) because of EU rules' to hide behind.