The thing to remember about Jezza is that he is genuinely not very bright. In fact, off the top of my head I can't think of another leader of one of the major parties who has ever been thicker. Only IDS comes remotely close. Jezza does not know what he is doing. Literally. A while back SeanT, I think, likened him to Chauncey Gardener. That is entirely accurate.
I've been mulling over recent party leaders and I would tend to agree. Possibly Lansbury might be a rival, but there can't be many alive who remember him.
Indeed, Corbyn resembles Lansbury in several ways; both old, both stupid, both incompetent, both elected following a devastating defeat where most other possible leaders lost their seats, both beloved by the members, both hated by the PLP.
But will Corbyn resemble him in the one way that would really help Labour - by not fighting a general election?
PS, after seeing that video of Juncker, I'm seriously considering voting leave for the first time. There is something really, seriously, deeply wrong with an organisation that promotes and protects such a charlatan (and I'm thinking of his tax policies too).
One coincidence with Corbyn resembling Lansbury is that Cameron is not a million miles from the Tory leader of the time too. Osborne as Chamberlain isn't that bad a bad fit either - though Osborne is a good deal more concerned with PR and popular politics.
Ref the EU and Juncker, it's hardly unique in that. The Lib Dems covered up Kennedy's problems. Labour has promoted Corbyn to the leadership and the Tories did likewise with IDS.
JC hardly drinks. Dunno about IDS, but he doesn't look like a drinker to me.
It's not about drinking as such; it's about the ability of the elected leader to do the job.
Trump's changed the date of his UK visit to the day before the referendum.
"So, punk, your parliament of maladjusted intellectual pygmies wasted a whole day ejaculating over some motion, intending to ban me from your shores. Like, whatever happened to it? Does anyone know for sure?
Whatever... I'm here now. So, maybe you can receive me at Downing Street with the respect due to a possible POTUS. Wanna act the jerk, instead?
Hey Man, no problem.
Where's the nearest mike? I feel a press conference coming on... Some kinda vote happening tomorrow, so I hear..."
As the constitutional consequences sink in I think his attack on the judge in the Trump University case is going to play badly.
Trump moved from dog whistle racism to open racism with those comments on the judge.
I am constantly surprised at Michael Gove talking about VAT reductions, tons more money for the NHS etc when he is a member of a Government that increased VAT and has effectively restricted spending by the NHS.
It seems a tad hypocritical!
Incidentally, I’ve just been on a senior citizens web forum where the only comments about the EU are for Remain.
Maybe he dosent - but Labour did want to abolish vat on fuel but the EU would not let them. We are not voting for gove in thus referendum we are voting so that whoever we vote for in 2020 can aboliah VAT on fuel if that is whst the electorate desire.
Any government can effectively cut VAT on fuel by changing the level of petrol duty.
It was Gas and Elec bills that was the issue
They could have effectively cut VAT by removing the Climate Change Levy
Just on Gove versus Cameron in terms of audience heckling and the like: it's worth noting Cameron's higher profile, and has been for years. This is a risk-free way to kick the PM without any chance of Corbyn becoming the head of government, and I think that should be considered when looking at how the public treat Cameron and someone like Gove (who isn't a nobody but doesn't have a comparable profile).
I'd say there is an even simpler explanation: those who want to leave the EU generally feel far more strongly and passionately about it than those who want to remain.
Spot on. A Leave vote will be Labour's failure almost as much as Cameron's. Think what you like about Blair...
Arguably he would bear a large part of the responsibility. If he'd not destroyed his reputation over Iraq he would now be a respected elder statesman whose voice would carry the mainstream Labour vote.
Chirac is said to have told Blair, "How will you be able to look Leo in the face in 20 years' time if you are the one who unleashes this war?" Instead Blair chose to be subservient to America. Now it looks like IDS and the rest might get their chance to make the job complete.
On the face of it the decision by Corbyn not to share a platform with Cameron and Osborne when he shares one with hezbollah and the IRA seems both childish and hypocritical.....
I was planning to write something on what advertising we could expect in the final three weeks and how the art of persuasion might work in that context.
To this end I started watching the hour long magnus opus from Brexit. It opens with a presenter in front of the EU Parliament building telling the viewer that 'this is the most important decision you'll ever make because unlike a general election it's forever....'
Its known that 90% of our opinions are pretty solid and maybe 10% are susceptible to influence and if you try to cast doubt on the 90% you're more likely to lose your customer than persuade him....
After watching several minutes of the Brexit documentary the camera cut to Melanie Phillips. As she spoke I could feel my 90% being invaded and from finding this impressive documentary persuasive the opposite started to happen. It was as tangible and as simple as that.
From the point of view of the Remain campaign though it seems counter intuitive I'm sure Corbyn made the right decision. Whether his motives were as admirable as his judgement only he can say.
Sadly, Melanie Phillips is one of the few people capable of flipping me to Remain.
Gove’s black hole on The Economy was as porous as Cameron’s on Immigration.
No wonder many do not believe in referendums, and it should be our elected representatives who are able to make especially this decision whether we remain or leave.
That is why we have a representative government and surely a leader to lead .
Trump's changed the date of his UK visit to the day before the referendum.
"So, punk, your parliament of maladjusted intellectual pygmies wasted a whole day ejaculating over some motion, intending to ban me from your shores. Like, whatever happened to it? Does anyone know for sure?
Whatever... I'm here now. So, maybe you can receive me at Downing Street with the respect due to a possible POTUS. Wanna act the jerk, instead?
Hey Man, no problem.
Where's the nearest mike? I feel a press conference coming on... Some kinda vote happening tomorrow, so I hear..."
As the constitutional consequences sink in I think his attack on the judge in the Trump University case is going to play badly.
Trump moved from dog whistle racism to open racism with those comments on the judge.
They should be running against him as "He is mentally unstable". He isn't really, he's a shameless populist who says whatever will go down well with the audience he's talking to at the time, but the voters probably believe he's authentic so it's best to work on the assumption that he means what he says.
Just on Gove versus Cameron in terms of audience heckling and the like: it's worth noting Cameron's higher profile, and has been for years. This is a risk-free way to kick the PM without any chance of Corbyn becoming the head of government, and I think that should be considered when looking at how the public treat Cameron and someone like Gove (who isn't a nobody but doesn't have a comparable profile).
I'd say there is an even simpler explanation: those who want to leave the EU generally feel far more strongly and passionately about it than those who want to remain.
As I have said several times, Remainers treat this as an argument while Leavers treat it as a crusade.
The thing to remember about Jezza is that he is genuinely not very bright. In fact, off the top of my head I can't think of another leader of one of the major parties who has ever been thicker. Only IDS comes remotely close. Jezza does not know what he is doing. Literally. A while back SeanT, I think, likened him to Chauncey Gardener. That is entirely accurate.
I've been mulling over recent party leaders and I would tend to agree. Possibly Lansbury might be a rival, but there can't be many alive who remember him.
Indeed, Corbyn resembles Lansbury in several ways; both old, both stupid, both incompetent, both elected following a devastating defeat where most other possible leaders lost their seats, both beloved by the members, both hated by the PLP.
But will Corbyn resemble him in the one way that would really help Labour - by not fighting a general election?
PS, after seeing that video of Juncker, I'm seriously considering voting leave for the first time. There is something really, seriously, deeply wrong with an organisation that promotes and protects such a charlatan (and I'm thinking of his tax policies too).
One coincidence with Corbyn resembling Lansbury is that Cameron is not a million miles from the Tory leader of the time too. Osborne as Chamberlain isn't that bad a bad fit either - though Osborne is a good deal more concerned with PR and popular politics.
Ref the EU and Juncker, it's hardly unique in that. The Lib Dems covered up Kennedy's problems. Labour has promoted Corbyn to the leadership and the Tories did likewise with IDS.
JC hardly drinks. Dunno about IDS, but he doesn't look like a drinker to me.
It's not about drinking as such; it's about the ability of the elected leader to do the job.
I realise that - my comment was designed to invite you to consider that your original comment was open to more than one interpretation. In fact, I'd have more time for JC if he did drink more
Good article as ever, but an interesting point to me was that they did not boo, but hiss. Neither would be laudible, but hissing really does illuminate just what level of nutjob he is carrying around with him. Not even the 1%. You'd need to go to the very bps of the population to find left wing kooks weird enough to hiss at someone.
Trump's changed the date of his UK visit to the day before the referendum.
"So, punk, your parliament of maladjusted intellectual pygmies wasted a whole day ejaculating over some motion, intending to ban me from your shores. Like, whatever happened to it? Does anyone know for sure?
Whatever... I'm here now. So, maybe you can receive me at Downing Street with the respect due to a possible POTUS. Wanna act the jerk, instead?
Hey Man, no problem.
Where's the nearest mike? I feel a press conference coming on... Some kinda vote happening tomorrow, so I hear..."
As the constitutional consequences sink in I think his attack on the judge in the Trump University case is going to play badly.
Trump moved from dog whistle racism to open racism with those comments on the judge.
They should be running against him as "He is mentally unstable". He isn't really, he's a shameless populist who says whatever will go down well with the audience he's talking to at the time, but the voters probably believe he's authentic so it's best to work on the assumption that he means what he says.
They are, Hilary gave a speech against Trump based on him being mentally unstable when it comes to foreign policy.
It ended with Hillary accusing him of being thin skinned.
Trump's response was "I'm not thin skinned. I'm the opposite of thin skinned"
Trump's changed the date of his UK visit to the day before the referendum.
"So, punk, your parliament of maladjusted intellectual pygmies wasted a whole day ejaculating over some motion, intending to ban me from your shores. Like, whatever happened to it? Does anyone know for sure?
Whatever... I'm here now. So, maybe you can receive me at Downing Street with the respect due to a possible POTUS. Wanna act the jerk, instead?
Hey Man, no problem.
Where's the nearest mike? I feel a press conference coming on... Some kinda vote happening tomorrow, so I hear..."
As the constitutional consequences sink in I think his attack on the judge in the Trump University case is going to play badly.
Trump moved from dog whistle racism to open racism with those comments on the judge.
I agree, when push comes to shove I think an awful lot of people are going to have serious doubts about giving this man the power of the POTUS.
I had expected him to act more "presidential" once he had the nomination but I guess if you have spent your whole life trying to intimidate anyone who stands in his way or threaten his interests then he is not going to find it easy to stop.
If he does manage to win I hope someone offers a book on the chances of him being impeached during his first term!
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
Gove’s black hole on The Economy was as porous as Cameron’s on Immigration.
No wonder many do not believe in referendums, and it should be our elected representatives who are able to make especially this decision whether we remain or leave.
That is why we have a representative government and surely a leader to lead .
The problem is that our leading "elected representatives" have never explained to their "followers" the implications of EU integration. This omission has been either careless or intentional.
Sad to say I was right to mention the concerns about Ali's health on last night's thread. Didn't want to see news this morning though. The reaction does seem somewhat muted though. Perhaps people feel he's been gone for some time?
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
I am constantly surprised at Michael Gove talking about VAT reductions, tons more money for the NHS etc when he is a member of a Government that increased VAT and has effectively restricted spending by the NHS.
It seems a tad hypocritical!
Incidentally, I’ve just been on a senior citizens web forum where the only comments about the EU are for Remain.
Maybe he dosent - but Labour did want to abolish vat on fuel but the EU would not let them. We are not voting for gove in thus referendum we are voting so that whoever we vote for in 2020 can aboliah VAT on fuel if that is whst the electorate desire.
No, Labour were fibbing too. VAT is a great tax, governments want to levy it on whatever they can get away with. It's also very visible and unpopular, so oppositions always pretend they want to cut it.
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
But that was before we signed the Vienna Convention of 1969 - the one Leavers are using to claim that rights of Brits to live in France or Spain will not be affected.
Furthermore, the prior rights exercised by Commonwealth citizens to migrate to the UK were not granted by treaty in the way that free movement within the EU is.
Sad to say I was right to mention the concerns about Ali's health on last night's thread. Didn't want to see news this morning though. The reaction does seem somewhat muted though. Perhaps people feel he's been gone for some time?
Death of a legend - I suspected that once they said "breathing difficulties", it sounded like a euphemism for pneumonia.
The problem with the labour left (and indeed, the extremes on the right) is that they do hate people who disagree with them. They think they are both stupid and malevolent, but even worse, ill-informed.
That's why they boo and hate Laura K.
She is the font of all evil by not totally buying into the wisdom that Jezza is a latter-day saint. She has confused the feeble-minded, and that's why they vote for other parties.
If you start from the basis that your judgement is always first class, then when people disagree, it can only be stupidity or brain-washing. Laura is totally responsible for the latter and thus deserves to be booed. She is the Farmer Jones intent on destabilising Animal Farm.
In a Trotskyite heaven, there will be no need for voting and democracy. And contrary opinions can be silenced for the good of the people.
Is JC a Trot? How would we know?
Stalin hated Trotksy - he even had him assassinated in Mexico in 1940...
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
But that was before we signed the Vienna Convention of 1969 - the one Leavers are using to claim that rights of Brits to live in France or Spain will not be affected.
I'm not expecting to see mass expulsions of people from the UK, France, or Spain in the event of a Leave vote, but I would expect to see all three countries end the right to free movement between them.
Gove’s black hole on The Economy was as porous as Cameron’s on Immigration.
No wonder many do not believe in referendums, and it should be our elected representatives who are able to make especially this decision whether we remain or leave.
That is why we have a representative government and surely a leader to lead .
The problem is that our leading "elected representatives" have never explained to their "followers" the implications of EU integration. This omission has been either careless or intentional.
I agree. Surely if we vote remain , they can not keep this omission going any longer.
For once I entirely disagree with David - and I've never shrunk from talking to anyone, including BNP supporters and people who explicitly thought I should be locked up.
1. The "hissing" was a very short interruption by a small number of people who, contrary to s one thing, but the party leader should avoid it, and I'd advise the same whoever the leader was.
The point I do agree with is that it's worth putting more effort into media outreach than is currently being done. But imposing omerta on party gatherings is not the way to do it. If the worst that anyone in political debate encounters is the odd hiss, not many will genuinely be very affronted. The journalists who I know are much more worried and annoyed about pressure on their editors by spin doctors of all sides - something which David paradoxically argues was the perfect strategy, and which is actually not (so far as I know) being done by Labour at the moment.
Reluctantly I dropped my membership & support for Labour after Corbyn got elected, accepting that although he was not someone I could ever vote for he was the choice of the party.
Although views on the EU were not really considered at the time of the leadership ballot I think that Labour choosing a leader who is, let's face it, anti-EU is possibly going to result in Leave winning this referendum.
Although the party and the unions are strongly pro-EU we are stuck with a leader who isn't and it's tragic. If we leave the EU then, when the history is written, he is going to get a lot of the blame for his insipid leadership of the party on the issue. (One poll showing half Labour supporters don't even know where the party stands)
Up to now I thought his only legacy would be that he would be the only Labour politician capable of losing to a Tory party in total disarray.
Spot on. A Leave vote will be Labour's failure almost as much as Cameron's. Think what you like about Blair, but when he was LOTO there is no way he would have allowed an issue like this to be seen as a Tory party feud. He would have done all he could to own the debate and set its parameters. He would, correctly, have seen it as a potential springboard into power.
Obviously, the Labour membership will seek solace in blaming the Tories for a Brexit vote. They lack the self-awareness to understand just how much they would have contributed to it.
SO proves yet again to be the best analyst of Corbyn's Labour party.
compare that to the turkeys we have in Westminster. They just tell porkies and sneak about.
One of them had her house raided by the Polis this week...
You are talking about SNP MPs, right? Angus and Stewart were definitely sneaking about
They were setup by a Tory Mata Hari. You just cannot believe how low the Tories will stoop. Sending out agents to seduce and traduce their opposition.
Only works on those who are weak, stupid or lack integrity. Which would you use to describe the SNP MP's?
Deluded fools taken in by the Tories, you always get a few weaklings. Still you at least admit how perfidious teh Tories are which is much more important than two bellends. Country led by knaves and bounders.
Good article as ever, but an interesting point to me was that they did not boo, but hiss. Neither would be laudible, but hissing really does illuminate just what level of nutjob he is carrying around with him. Not even the 1%. You'd need to go to the very bps of the population to find left wing kooks weird enough to hiss at someone.
It really is panto-baddie stuff. Who seriously hisses at anyone?
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
It is The Open Championship.
Correct - just as it is the The PGA Championship (not US PGA) and The Masters (not US Masters).
Nah. There's a US Open so it's a good Americanism (yes there are such things) to distinguish the British one. Calling it The Open as if there are no others, smacks of the kind of colonial tosh that we really have to leave behind. And I'm a Brexiteer.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
4 Majors: US Open, British Open, US Masters and US PGA.
Spot on. A Leave vote will be Labour's failure almost as much as Cameron's. Think what you like about Blair...
Arguably he would bear a large part of the responsibility. If he'd not destroyed his reputation over Iraq he would now be a respected elder statesman whose voice would carry the mainstream Labour vote.
Chirac is said to have told Blair, "How will you be able to look Leo in the face in 20 years' time if you are the one who unleashes this war?" Instead Blair chose to be subservient to America. Now it looks like IDS and the rest might get their chance to make the job complete.
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
But that was before we signed the Vienna Convention of 1969 - the one Leavers are using to claim that rights of Brits to live in France or Spain will not be affected.
I'm not expecting to see mass expulsions of people from the UK, France, or Spain in the event of a Leave vote, but I would expect to see all three countries end the right to free movement between them.
But that's an expectation based on how you expect the negotiations under Article 50 to play out. There's no meaningful precedent.
There are plenty of grey areas. Gove used the formulation of 'ordinarily resident' to claim that the woman in the audience would not be affected, but if you own an investment property in France which you might plan to use for yourself 10 years later, you're not ordinarily resident and would find yourself having to go through whatever the prevailing immigration policy will be.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
It is The Open Championship.
Correct - just as it is the The PGA Championship (not US PGA) and The Masters (not US Masters).
Nah. There's a US Open so it's a good Americanism (yes there are such things) to distinguish the British one. Calling it The Open as if there are no others, smacks of the kind of colonial tosh that we really have to leave behind. And I'm a Brexiteer.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
4 Majors: US Open, British Open, US Masters and US PGA.
Tosh it is "The Open" , none of your second rate US pygmy tournaments here.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
But that was before we signed the Vienna Convention of 1969 - the one Leavers are using to claim that rights of Brits to live in France or Spain will not be affected.
I'm not expecting to see mass expulsions of people from the UK, France, or Spain in the event of a Leave vote, but I would expect to see all three countries end the right to free movement between them.
But that's an expectation based on how you expect the negotiations under Article 50 to play out. There's no meaningful precedent.
There are plenty of grey areas. Gove used the formulation of 'ordinarily resident' to claim that the woman in the audience would not be affected, but if you own an investment property in France which you might plan to use for yourself 10 years later, you're not ordinarily resident and would find yourself having to go through whatever the prevailing immigration policy will be.
I'm sure you would. That would not be unreasonable.
Nah. There's a US Open so it's a good Americanism (yes there are such things) to distinguish the British one. Calling it The Open as if there are no others, smacks of the kind of colonial tosh that we really have to leave behind. And I'm a Brexiteer.
Rubbish
There is a Forth Bridge.
And a Forth Road Bridge.
There is the Open Championship. And some others,,,
Gove's answer to the woman with an apartment in the South of France was highly dishonest. This article has good coverage of the issues:
...
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
But that was before we signed the Vienna Convention of 1969 - the one Leavers are using to claim that rights of Brits to live in France or Spain will not be affected.
I'm not expecting to see mass expulsions of people from the UK, France, or Spain in the event of a Leave vote, but I would expect to see all three countries end the right to free movement between them.
But that's an expectation based on how you expect the negotiations under Article 50 to play out. There's no meaningful precedent.
There are plenty of grey areas. Gove used the formulation of 'ordinarily resident' to claim that the woman in the audience would not be affected, but if you own an investment property in France which you might plan to use for yourself 10 years later, you're not ordinarily resident and would find yourself having to go through whatever the prevailing immigration policy will be.
People with an investment property in France are not going to be voting Leave.
And, to be frank, if your scenario plays out - which is in all likelihood a worst case scenario - it would be a price worth paying. HMG needs to govern for all the people, and sometimes the needs of British nationals without a home here trump those of British nationals worried about a second home in the south of France.
Yes Scott - a price worth paying. The Tory party needs to govern for all the people, not just those who voted for them.
compare that to the turkeys we have in Westminster. They just tell porkies and sneak about.
One of them had her house raided by the Polis this week...
You are talking about SNP MPs, right? Angus and Stewart were definitely sneaking about
They were setup by a Tory Mata Hari. You just cannot believe how low the Tories will stoop. Sending out agents to seduce and traduce their opposition.
Only works on those who are weak, stupid or lack integrity. Which would you use to describe the SNP MP's?
Deluded fools taken in by the Tories, you always get a few weaklings. Still you at least admit how perfidious teh Tories are which is much more important than two bellends. Country led by knaves and bounders.
A few? At the rate the SNP are losing MP's, they will soon be down to zero.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
If 'acquired rights' were sacrosanct, how could we revoke the acquired right of every current EU citizen to come and live here?
Vienna Convention of 1969 (Article 70) says, inter alia, that termination of a treaty does not affect rights granted under the treaty prior to the termination of said treaty.
France is not party to the Vienna Convention of 1969.
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
The precedent would be from when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth citizens in 1962. People who were lawfully resident here were entitled to remain, but people who weren't lost the automatic right to settle here.
But that was before we signed the Vienna Convention of 1969 - the one Leavers are using to claim that rights of Brits to live in France or Spain will not be affected.
I'm not expecting to see mass expulsions of people from the UK, France, or Spain in the event of a Leave vote, but I would expect to see all three countries end the right to free movement between them.
But that's an expectation based on how you expect the negotiations under Article 50 to play out. There's no meaningful precedent.
There are plenty of grey areas. Gove used the formulation of 'ordinarily resident' to claim that the woman in the audience would not be affected, but if you own an investment property in France which you might plan to use for yourself 10 years later, you're not ordinarily resident and would find yourself having to go through whatever the prevailing immigration policy will be.
I'm sure you would. That would not be unreasonable.
Earlier this week, the first minister warned her opponents not to make political capital out of the death of Liam Fee. She would be entitled to issue such a warning if she and her colleagues had been completely transparent about the politics of this case. Instead we have had 72 hours of fudge and prevarication on two essential questions: did Fife Council have a meaningful Named Person scheme and was Liam Fee part of it?
If the answer to both these questions is 'No' (as the Scottish Government has claimed), the problem for Ms Sturgeon’s administration goes away – except as a public relations disaster. But if the answer is 'Yes' (as we are about to show), serious questions must be asked about the credibility of the Named Person policy and her opponents are entitled to ask them
I didn't think he came across that badly in the Vice piece.
A little out of his depth and generally useless, but not a bad person.
He should use that as a campaign slogan! I think it's enough to win some votes with public trust in politicians being so low.
I have to say that I find it difficult to think of someone who hangs around with anti-semites and terrorists as "not a bad person".
You hang around with lawyers and criminals.
You have no idea who I hang around with. And as it happens I don't hang around with criminals. I represent people who are innocent until proven guilty. And most of my work these days is on the prosecution side of the fence, as it happens. I have been responsible for a number of criminals going to prison and not being given airtime in Parliament. Whereas Corbyn lobbied for a convicted anti-semite to be heard in Parliament.
Corbyn chose who he spent time with and which organisations he would chair and play a part in and at which events he spoke. And from the record it appears that he chose to spend time with and to chair organisations and play a part in organisations and speak at events where a lot of terrorists, terrorist sympathizers and anti-semites also played a part and played a role in the organisations and spoke. That says something about the choices he made and therefore the sort of person he is, IMO.
You may choose to think me a bad person because I am a lawyer investigating bad behaviour in the financial services sector. That's your prerogative. And frankly I couldn't care less. But I am not standing for public office. Corbyn is. And his choices say something about the sort of man he is and the sort of party he leads.
ARD poll in Germany - they want us to stay because we're "honest".
Seven out of ten Germans (69 per cent) agreed that “you can trust Great Britain” compared with 53 per cent for the United States and just 7 per cent for Turkey.
"..wonder of wonders, the average GI found that the people he liked best, identified most closely with, enjoyed being with, were the Germans."
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
Unimpressive, but at least there never was a double-dip recession.
The surprise isn't that there wasn't a double dip recession but that Britain came close to one despite all the borrowed money pumped into the economy. Osborne's over-borrowing currently stands at £180bn.
Note that the increase in growth in 2014 is closely related to the increase in house prices and consumer spending and is followed by the current account deficit reaching an all time high.
So much for Osborne's promise to rebalance the economy to 'savings, investments and exports'.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
James Bond did that....and then pulled the ripcord and a massive parachute in the form of the Union flag appeared.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
James Bond did that....and then pulled the ripcord and a massive parachute in the form of the Union flag appeared.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
Unimpressive, but at least there never was a double-dip recession.
The surprise isn't that there wasn't a double dip recession but that Britain came close to one despite all the borrowed money pumped into the economy. Osborne's over-borrowing currently stands at £180bn.
Note that the increase in growth in 2014 is closely related to the increase in house prices and consumer spending and is followed by the current account deficit reaching an all time high.
So much for Osborne's promise to rebalance the economy to 'savings, investments and exports'.
I didn't think he came across that badly in the Vice piece.
A little out of his depth and generally useless, but not a bad person.
He should use that as a campaign slogan! I think it's enough to win some votes with public trust in politicians being so low.
I have to say that I find it difficult to think of someone who hangs around with anti-semites and terrorists as "not a bad person".
You hang around with lawyers and criminals.
You have no idea who I hang around with. And as it happens I don't hang around with criminals. I represent people who are innocent until proven guilty. And most of my work these days is on the prosecution side of the fence, as it happens. I have been responsible for a number of criminals going to prison and not being given airtime in Parliament. Whereas Corbyn lobbied for a convicted anti-semite to be heard in Parliament.
Corbyn chose who he spent time with and which organisations he would chair and play a part in and at which events he spoke. And from the record it appears that he chose to spend time with and to chair organisations and play a part in organisations and speak at events where a lot of terrorists, terrorist sympathizers and anti-semites also played a part and played a role in the organisations and spoke. That says something about the choices he made and therefore the sort of person he is, IMO.
You may choose to think me a bad person because I am a lawyer investigating bad behaviour in the financial services sector. That's your prerogative. And frankly I couldn't care less. But I am not standing for public office. Corbyn is. And his choices say something about the sort of man he is and the sort of party he leads.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Trump's changed the date of his UK visit to the day before the referendum.
"So, punk, your parliament of maladjusted intellectual pygmies wasted a whole day ejaculating over some motion, intending to ban me from your shores. Like, whatever happened to it? Does anyone know for sure?
Whatever... I'm here now. So, maybe you can receive me at Downing Street with the respect due to a possible POTUS. Wanna act the jerk, instead?
Hey Man, no problem.
Where's the nearest mike? I feel a press conference coming on... Some kinda vote happening tomorrow, so I hear..."
As the constitutional consequences sink in I think his attack on the judge in the Trump University case is going to play badly.
Trump moved from dog whistle racism to open racism with those comments on the judge.
They should be running against him as "He is mentally unstable". He isn't really, he's a shameless populist who says whatever will go down well with the audience he's talking to at the time, but the voters probably believe he's authentic so it's best to work on the assumption that he means what he says.
Authentically mad or totally cynical. Like you, I believe the second. Ted Cruz was the authentically mad one. Totally cynical makes him like Clinton, but a lot more so. It's a case of fooling enough of the people for just long enough to get over the finishing line. Trump might well do it. He is just that much more shameless than Clinton.
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
Unimpressive, but at least there never was a double-dip recession.
The surprise isn't that there wasn't a double dip recession but that Britain came close to one despite all the borrowed money pumped into the economy. Osborne's over-borrowing currently stands at £180bn.
...
No it's not. GDP growth figures are relative to the previous period, so what matters is not how much stimulus a government pumps in (or - ha - withdraws) but how that amount compares with last quarter/year. (Also, where it's come from and what it's crowded out).
In fact, Osborne over-borrowed because growth was weak, not the other way round.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
The pensioners forum that were 100% for remain looked odd. Unless it was the guaedians old age forum.
I have seen many people claim that their heart says leave their head remain, but after taking a little time to reflect, I'm beginning to think I'm the opposite.
I find quite a few leave arguments uncomfortable, I accept remain though exaggerating are probably right about many consequences, and to be honest I like the free movement and dont particularly care about immigration. My heart says things could be OK or the bad things about the EU managed, but my head just points out the direction of travel, the contempt for those not signed up to the most extreme integration, the waste, the lack of accountability, the joke of unity that is presented, and I just cannot buy into believing it is or could be worth it, even if I feel a status quo, slightly improved, would be acceptable.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
James Bond did that....and then pulled the ripcord and a massive parachute in the form of the Union flag appeared.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
That misunderstands the nature of gravity.
Indeed but I was using it in the lyrical sense rather than physics
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
James Bond did that....and then pulled the ripcord and a massive parachute in the form of the Union flag appeared.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
Remind me how many seats the extremely pro-EU LibDems lost at the General Election. Ta.
The "extremely pro-EU LibDems" have been notable by their absence during the referendum.
Can honestly say I've not seen Tim Farron or any other LD MP on the TV. Not once. And given I see a disproportionate % of rolling news, that's quite a feat.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
It is The Open Championship.
Correct - just as it is the The PGA Championship (not US PGA) and The Masters (not US Masters).
Nah. There's a US Open so it's a good Americanism (yes there are such things) to distinguish the British one. Calling it The Open as if there are no others, smacks of the kind of colonial tosh that we really have to leave behind. And I'm a Brexiteer.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
4 Majors: US Open, British Open, US Masters and US PGA.
There is no such thing as The British Open, the R&A will confirm that. The Open Championship and The Amateur Championship are what they are.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Well to be fair, I did say there were some honourable exceptions. Its just the obvious ones.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
James Bond did that....and then pulled the ripcord and a massive parachute in the form of the Union flag appeared.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
Comments
Chirac is said to have told Blair, "How will you be able to look Leo in the face in 20 years' time if you are the one who unleashes this war?" Instead Blair chose to be subservient to America. Now it looks like IDS and the rest might get their chance to make the job complete.
Gove’s black hole on The Economy was as porous as Cameron’s on Immigration.
No wonder many do not believe in referendums, and it should be our elected representatives who are able to make especially this decision whether we remain or leave.
That is why we have a representative government and surely a leader to lead .
It ended with Hillary accusing him of being thin skinned.
Trump's response was "I'm not thin skinned. I'm the opposite of thin skinned"
I had expected him to act more "presidential" once he had the nomination but I guess if you have spent your whole life trying to intimidate anyone who stands in his way or threaten his interests then he is not going to find it easy to stop.
If he does manage to win I hope someone offers a book on the chances of him being impeached during his first term!
Even so, where would the line be drawn? The convention deals with states' rights, not rights granted to citizens. If the right of current EU citizens to free movement within the EU were deemed to be protected, then even if the UK left the EU, everyone who was an EU citizen at that moment would retain their right to settle here for the rest of their life.
A brilliant role model for younger people no matter which race or creed!
Furthermore, the prior rights exercised by Commonwealth citizens to migrate to the UK were not granted by treaty in the way that free movement within the EU is.
Surely if we vote remain , they can not keep this omission going any longer.
Give this man a Guardian column!
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/articles/economicreview/june2016
These new figures allow a comparison between Osborne's growth predictions and the actual outcome:
Prediction
2011 2.3%
2012 2.8%
2013 2.9%
2014 2.7%
2015 2.7%
Actual
2011 1.5%
2012 1.3%
2013 1.9%
2014 3.1%
2015 2.3%
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
4 Majors: US Open, British Open, US Masters and US PGA.
You are talking about Scotland, right?
There are plenty of grey areas. Gove used the formulation of 'ordinarily resident' to claim that the woman in the audience would not be affected, but if you own an investment property in France which you might plan to use for yourself 10 years later, you're not ordinarily resident and would find yourself having to go through whatever the prevailing immigration policy will be.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
There is a Forth Bridge.
And a Forth Road Bridge.
There is the Open Championship. And some others,,,
And, to be frank, if your scenario plays out - which is in all likelihood a worst case scenario - it would be a price worth paying. HMG needs to govern for all the people, and sometimes the needs of British nationals without a home here trump those of British nationals worried about a second home in the south of France.
Yes Scott - a price worth paying. The Tory party needs to govern for all the people, not just those who voted for them.
Swinney in a spot of bother over NP. Fracking hypocrisy. Education going backwards for 9 years.
If the answer to both these questions is 'No' (as the Scottish Government has claimed), the problem for Ms Sturgeon’s administration goes away – except as a public relations disaster. But if the answer is 'Yes' (as we are about to show), serious questions must be asked about the credibility of the Named Person policy and her opponents are entitled to ask them
http://www.scottishreview.net/KennethRoy54a.html
Corbyn chose who he spent time with and which organisations he would chair and play a part in and at which events he spoke. And from the record it appears that he chose to spend time with and to chair organisations and play a part in organisations and speak at events where a lot of terrorists, terrorist sympathizers and anti-semites also played a part and played a role in the organisations and spoke. That says something about the choices he made and therefore the sort of person he is, IMO.
You may choose to think me a bad person because I am a lawyer investigating bad behaviour in the financial services sector. That's your prerogative. And frankly I couldn't care less. But I am not standing for public office. Corbyn is. And his choices say something about the sort of man he is and the sort of party he leads.
Harzand for the Derby
- Stephen E. Ambrose, "Band of Brothers".
Note that the increase in growth in 2014 is closely related to the increase in house prices and consumer spending and is followed by the current account deficit reaching an all time high.
So much for Osborne's promise to rebalance the economy to 'savings, investments and exports'.
He was pretty fierce on those he spent time with. Being with Jesus as one of his followers was hardly the way to get your ego stroked.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
(Bethlehem's Got Talent)
In fact, Osborne over-borrowed because growth was weak, not the other way round.
I find quite a few leave arguments uncomfortable, I accept remain though exaggerating are probably right about many consequences, and to be honest I like the free movement and dont particularly care about immigration. My heart says things could be OK or the bad things about the EU managed, but my head just points out the direction of travel, the contempt for those not signed up to the most extreme integration, the waste, the lack of accountability, the joke of unity that is presented, and I just cannot buy into believing it is or could be worth it, even if I feel a status quo, slightly improved, would be acceptable.
"That misunderstands the nature of gravity."
Possibly so, but we still do have an atmosphere and not a vacuum. Those nasty EU Lib Dems taken our air away, have they?
Matt Chorley in The Times is embarrassingly pro-Remain. He's as neutral as a BBC R4 News Quiz.
Conversely, Hugo Rifkind who's openly pro-Remain can still take the piss out of either side. His My Week is excellent on Cameron/Osborne.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/my-week-david-cameron-czlpvmljc
Even UKIP is getting little air time even though they won the last European elections and the EU is their specialist subject.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.