politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LEAVE’s repeated refusal to accept that its £50m a day clai
Comments
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"Alex Salmond should quit the campaign to keep Britain in the EU before "before he does any more damage", the Liberal Democrats said yesterday after he used the first TV debate to predict a second independence referendum within two years of Brexit.
Willie Rennie, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, said Mr Salmond had behaved like a “not-so-secret agent for the Leave campaign” during the BBC One broadcast on Thursday night when he appeared alongside Labour’s Alan Johnson for the Remain campaign.
He said the former First Minister had spent more time “rubbishing” the pro-EU campaign and talking about Scottish independence than making the positive case for staying in Europe....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/27/alex-salmond-should-quit-remain-campaign-before-he-does-more-dam/0 -
I rest my case.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I put myself down as Jedi in the 2001 census.HurstLlama said:
A few years ago the Met Police, keen to measure the diversity of its recruits, asked each new copper to fill in a form on day one which included questions on ethnicity and religion. The results came as a surprise to the brass, who found that the most common religion amongst their new recruits was Jedi.tlg86 said:
Enough people put Arsenal for it to be counted. I put Arsene Knows. I'm not sure he does nowviewcode said:
Here's an interesting thing. The Census has over 1300 religion classifications. Take a lookRobD said:
No it doesn't. Christian in the census means all denominations, not just Catholic.
In the 2001 and 2011 census I put myself down as basically High CofE but with strong Taoist/buddhist overtones. God knows what the bean counters made of that. Probably no worse than they made of Herself's description of her religion, i.e. "Very high end Oxford movement CofE but I cannot stand Catholicism".
Religion don't get discussed much in the Llama household; make the wrong comment on a matter of doctrine and I can be sleeping on the sofa for a week.0 -
I'm sure that we would have said that about the Taliban, and then ISIS turn out so much worse. The PLO and Hamas etc.MikeK said:
You can't get much nastier than Isil. I mean how many heads do you want to see severed in a day?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If a vacuum is allowed to develop and history is any guide.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
Any new mob will be a lot nastier than what went before.0 -
The Geographic centre of England is said to be near Hinckley, so we are in the East :-)CD13 said:Dr Fox,
"Skegness and Mablethorpe are known in Leicester as "the Far East".
It's all the caravans. Ingoldmells is a good example - wasn't it the largest caravan park in the world?
Leicester ... a nice enough place in the West Midlands.
Skegness and the Lincs coast is still a popular place for Leicester and Nottingham folk to retire to,, as is Hunstanton, slightly posher Leics folk go to North Norfolk.
I rather like North Norfolk myself.
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As a libertarian I take a far more relaxed position than most in the leave camp on immigration. The thing that annoys me most is the positive discrimination in favour of EU nationals at the expense of non-EU nationals under the current arrangements. But the demographic crunch necessitates immigration of skilled workers - our economy and public services depend on it. But no politician has ever tried to explain that reality - yes it would require a longer attention span than the average voter possesses but it should be a point made all the same.TOPPING said:
I think the levels of immigration are pretty jaw-dropping and likely to sway some of those on the fence. As they might say, 330k immigrants here, 330k immigrants there, pretty soon you're talking a real population increase.hunchman said:Agree with OGH about the stupid £350m figure that Leave are using - £150m would have been fine, but to backtrack and re-spray those vans now would invite ridicule so they're in a no win situation of their own making.
Personally I think the leave campaign need to fight much more on economics - they've got a perfectly good story to tell on the EFTA / EEA model. By continuing on the immigration theme they're merely preaching to the converted - fine to spend a bit of time on it (not as though that's why I'm in the leave camp) to keep that block on side but it needs to be a much more rounded campaign than has been the case over the past week.0 -
Guardian had news yesterday that us special ops had been photographed fighting in towns on the way to aleppo.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
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And the common denominator between all those groups is? Asking for a friend.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I'm sure that we would have said that about the Taliban, and then ISIS turn out so much worse. The PLO and Hamas etc.MikeK said:
You can't get much nastier than Isil. I mean how many heads do you want to see severed in a day?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If a vacuum is allowed to develop and history is any guide.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
Any new mob will be a lot nastier than what went before.0 -
Quite a few of my mates did too.HurstLlama said:
I rest my case.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I put myself down as Jedi in the 2001 census.HurstLlama said:
A few years ago the Met Police, keen to measure the diversity of its recruits, asked each new copper to fill in a form on day one which included questions on ethnicity and religion. The results came as a surprise to the brass, who found that the most common religion amongst their new recruits was Jedi.tlg86 said:
Enough people put Arsenal for it to be counted. I put Arsene Knows. I'm not sure he does nowviewcode said:
Here's an interesting thing. The Census has over 1300 religion classifications. Take a lookRobD said:
No it doesn't. Christian in the census means all denominations, not just Catholic.
In the 2001 and 2011 census I put myself down as basically High CofE but with strong Taoist/buddhist overtones. God knows what the bean counters made of that. Probably no worse than they made of Herself's description of her religion, i.e. "Very high end Oxford movement CofE but I cannot stand Catholicism".
Religion don't get discussed much in the Llama household; make the wrong comment on a matter of doctrine and I can be sleeping on the sofa for a week.
It was very much the view of 'Ask a silly question.....'0 -
Bolton isn't in the same league as Evan "muchous interruptous" Davis.LadyBucket said:I've just watched Liam Fox being interviewed by Adam Boulton on SKY. I don't think Liam Fox managed to complete a single sentence due to constant interruptions. All presenters do it but Adam Boulton is one of the worse. It's so bloody frustrating.
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Absolutely. But to many people, perhaps most, these are large numbers and as you say, with attention spans as they are, they won't get beyond the headlines.hunchman said:
As a libertarian I take a far more relaxed position than most in the leave camp on immigration. The thing that annoys me most is the positive discrimination in favour of EU nationals at the expense of non-EU nationals under the current arrangements. But the demographic crunch necessitates immigration of skilled workers - our economy and public services depend on it. But no politician has ever tried to explain that reality - yes it would require a longer attention span than the average voter possesses but it should be a point made all the same.TOPPING said:
I think the levels of immigration are pretty jaw-dropping and likely to sway some of those on the fence. As they might say, 330k immigrants here, 330k immigrants there, pretty soon you're talking a real population increase.hunchman said:Agree with OGH about the stupid £350m figure that Leave are using - £150m would have been fine, but to backtrack and re-spray those vans now would invite ridicule so they're in a no win situation of their own making.
Personally I think the leave campaign need to fight much more on economics - they've got a perfectly good story to tell on the EFTA / EEA model. By continuing on the immigration theme they're merely preaching to the converted - fine to spend a bit of time on it (not as though that's why I'm in the leave camp) to keep that block on side but it needs to be a much more rounded campaign than has been the case over the past week.0 -
Rashford looking good for England...the way we are defending we are going to need to score 3 or 4 every game at the euros!0
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They're all Mossad fronts which back BrexitHurstLlama said:
And the common denominator between all those groups is? Asking for a friend.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I'm sure that we would have said that about the Taliban, and then ISIS turn out so much worse. The PLO and Hamas etc.MikeK said:
You can't get much nastier than Isil. I mean how many heads do you want to see severed in a day?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If a vacuum is allowed to develop and history is any guide.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
Any new mob will be a lot nastier than what went before.
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When I did my post GE analysis of UKIP seats it was fairly easy to find seats with 15-20% of the vote, but there did seem to be a ceiling around 30%, so in FPTP I think that UKIP only really stands a chance in 3 way Marginals, where they are one of the 3. Even there they did not gain a seat.EPG said:I bet there aren't many constituencies in which Ukip won over 20 times the Conservative vote. But Belfast West was one.
If the Tory party implodes then the ceiling may raise, but I think that there are simply not enough people who buy into the strange hybrid of public schoolboys and anti-migration anger to go much higher. Britons are a pretty tolerant lot, suspicious of insurgents.0 -
Thank you.SouthamObserver said:
I don't want to sound like a dick, but I do think you have been an absolute star on this site over the last few weeks. We've all lost our tempers now and again, but you have really helped me to frame my thinking and have challenged me. MaxPB is another, as are RCS, Richard Tyndall. Sean Fear and Alanbrooke. It's been a real education. Whatever happens next month I am grateful for that.Casino_Royale said:
That's a very interesting and fair post, SO.SouthamObserver said:
The referendum has got a lot of us thinking about the EU for the first time. Up until just a few months ago I thought I was going to sit it all out. But I found myself moving to Remain quite strongly when I began to consider the issues for the first time. Over the course of the campaign, though, and thanks in no small part to exchanges on here. I have drifted a lot more towards scepticism and the EU currently being the least worst option. I think that if EEA/EFTA were still a realistic option I might even be persuadable on Leave this time round. But that is not going to happen.Casino_Royale said:
Which won't happen.SeanT said:
It's internecine. REMAINIACS on the right (and we're speaking mainly about the right) have passim.Pulpstar said:
I don't get the enthusiasm from certain remainers here. Most people I know are looking forward to potentially voting remain with about as much enthusiasm as using a suppository after eating 50 hard boiled eggs.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Of course the traitorous pig-dogs of the REMAIN camp are completely deluded - they will be the ones suffering, if REMAIN wins - paradoxically - but that is what they think.
One of things (like Sean Fear) value.
It's perfectly clear the europhile Left of the party were trying to call the eurosceptic bluff with this referendum, win a 65-35 victory (or more) and close this issue down for decades.
That isn't going to happen. Instead, they may have just let the genie out the bottle.
Brexit was a fringe position even as recently as four years ago.
At the very least, I'd say, a lot of us will be looking a lot more closely at developments inside the EU than we have in the past. If the other member states do as you believe they will and misread a vote to Remain I can see us being out within a relatively short period of time.
Thank you.0 -
Howls of derisive laughter there, Bruce!Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
They're all Mossad fronts which back BrexitHurstLlama said:
And the common denominator between all those groups is? Asking for a friend.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I'm sure that we would have said that about the Taliban, and then ISIS turn out so much worse. The PLO and Hamas etc.MikeK said:
You can't get much nastier than Isil. I mean how many heads do you want to see severed in a day?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If a vacuum is allowed to develop and history is any guide.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
Any new mob will be a lot nastier than what went before.0 -
Not really because those outcomes depend on the use of one method.Roger said:Don't you think it might give a more balanced picture to say that out of the last ten polls Remain have been in the lead in seven two have been tied and one has had Leave in the lead?
It would however be fair to say that Leave need online polls to be right.0 -
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There's winning in the short term, and losing in the long term.Big_G_NorthWales said:
David Cameron always plays to win and that is why the Conservative party are in powerYorkcity said:
Morris , I agree .Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, whilst I agree with you on lack of enthusiasm, don't count your chickens yet. A 60/40 Remain win remains [ahem] eminently possible.
The most (domestically) important development in the campaigns so far has been the destruction of Cameron's position as a relatively trusted, unifying figure within the Conservative Party.
It's all very well winning a war, but if you piss off your own side so much they want to re-enact Caesar's death then one's strategy is flawed.
Michael Portillo said last night , that from all he knew about David Cameron if he was not PM ,he would voting to leave.
Both Cameron and Hague have surprised me with strong support for remain, with no balance on their previous positions.
I believe one should be open to change your opinion if the facts have changed.
However it is hard to understand what has changed so fundamentally apart from they are in or have been in control of the foreign office.
If Cameron scrapes a win, he'll save his career, but will still be reviled by right wing voters. As Blair is now reviled by left wing voters. What does it profit a man to secure such a victory?0 -
They won 2 per cent of the vote in Belfast West. Not THAT bad considering they got similar scores in some much more prosperous parts of the country in Scotland. The poor Conservative candidate got less than 0.1 per cent.foxinsoxuk said:
When I did my post GE analysis of UKIP seats it was fairly easy to find seats with 15-20% of the vote, but there did seem to be a ceiling around 30%, so in FPTP I think that UKIP only really stands a chance in 3 way Marginals, where they are one of the 3. Even there they did not gain a seat.EPG said:I bet there aren't many constituencies in which Ukip won over 20 times the Conservative vote. But Belfast West was one.
If the Tory party implodes then the ceiling may raise, but I think that there are simply not enough people who buy into the strange hybrid of public schoolboys and anti-migration anger to go much higher. Britons are a pretty tolerant lot, suspicious of insurgents.0 -
Of course you do .... it's LibDem-By-The-Sea ....foxinsoxuk said:I rather like North Norfolk myself.
"Yellow Peril Paddling Here"
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It needs a politician to REALLY have a go at one of these presenters. It would be doing democracy a real favour.FrancisUrquhart said:
Bolton isn't in the same league as Evan "muchous interruptous" Davis.LadyBucket said:I've just watched Liam Fox being interviewed by Adam Boulton on SKY. I don't think Liam Fox managed to complete a single sentence due to constant interruptions. All presenters do it but Adam Boulton is one of the worse. It's so bloody frustrating.
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Exactly my position.hunchman said:
As a libertarian I take a far more relaxed position than most in the leave camp on immigration. The thing that annoys me most is the positive discrimination in favour of EU nationals at the expense of non-EU nationals under the current arrangements. But the demographic crunch necessitates immigration of skilled workers - our economy and public services depend on it. But no politician has ever tried to explain that reality - yes it would require a longer attention span than the average voter possesses but it should be a point made all the same.TOPPING said:
I think the levels of immigration are pretty jaw-dropping and likely to sway some of those on the fence. As they might say, 330k immigrants here, 330k immigrants there, pretty soon you're talking a real population increase.hunchman said:Agree with OGH about the stupid £350m figure that Leave are using - £150m would have been fine, but to backtrack and re-spray those vans now would invite ridicule so they're in a no win situation of their own making.
Personally I think the leave campaign need to fight much more on economics - they've got a perfectly good story to tell on the EFTA / EEA model. By continuing on the immigration theme they're merely preaching to the converted - fine to spend a bit of time on it (not as though that's why I'm in the leave camp) to keep that block on side but it needs to be a much more rounded campaign than has been the case over the past week.0 -
Sorry, I don't get the Bruce reference.HurstLlama said:
Howls of derisive laughter there, Bruce!Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
They're all Mossad fronts which back BrexitHurstLlama said:
And the common denominator between all those groups is? Asking for a friend.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I'm sure that we would have said that about the Taliban, and then ISIS turn out so much worse. The PLO and Hamas etc.MikeK said:
You can't get much nastier than Isil. I mean how many heads do you want to see severed in a day?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If a vacuum is allowed to develop and history is any guide.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
Any new mob will be a lot nastier than what went before.0 -
Johnny Depp is in the big doo doo...0
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foxinsoxuk said "I rather like North Norfolk myself."
Seconded. I like the local people there. Generally I find that if you treat 'em straight they reciprocate.0 -
I think you make a good point. I'm not sure that an anti immigrant group which 'Leave' are starting to look like can win a majority. I think there's a significant body of voters who would never line up with such a grouping whatever their view on 'in' or 'out'.foxinsoxuk said:
When I did my post GE analysis of UKIP seats it was fairly easy to find seats with 15-20% of the vote, but there did seem to be a ceiling around 30%, so in FPTP I think that UKIP only really stands a chance in 3 way Marginals, where they are one of the 3. Even there they did not gain a seat.EPG said:I bet there aren't many constituencies in which Ukip won over 20 times the Conservative vote. But Belfast West was one.
If the Tory party implodes then the ceiling may raise, but I think that there are simply not enough people who buy into the strange hybrid of public schoolboys and anti-migration anger to go much higher. Britons are a pretty tolerant lot, suspicious of insurgents.0 -
Perfectly sensible question. It makes great sense on a one-to-one basis. When the wisdom of crowds is so indiscriminate in its response though it suggests that there is no wisdom.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Quite a few of my mates did too.HurstLlama said:
I rest my case.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I put myself down as Jedi in the 2001 census.HurstLlama said:
A few years ago the Met Police, keen to measure the diversity of its recruits, asked each new copper to fill in a form on day one which included questions on ethnicity and religion. The results came as a surprise to the brass, who found that the most common religion amongst their new recruits was Jedi.tlg86 said:
Enough people put Arsenal for it to be counted. I put Arsene Knows. I'm not sure he does nowviewcode said:
Here's an interesting thing. The Census has over 1300 religion classifications. Take a lookRobD said:
No it doesn't. Christian in the census means all denominations, not just Catholic.
In the 2001 and 2011 census I put myself down as basically High CofE but with strong Taoist/buddhist overtones. God knows what the bean counters made of that. Probably no worse than they made of Herself's description of her religion, i.e. "Very high end Oxford movement CofE but I cannot stand Catholicism".
Religion don't get discussed much in the Llama household; make the wrong comment on a matter of doctrine and I can be sleeping on the sofa for a week.
It was very much the view of 'Ask a silly question.....'
If you asked a machine - who is god? - it'd certainly respond that there is no god (Atheists are a very spiky mode). On the other hand if you ask it if there's a god it'd say that there is (Atheists are in a minority). It'd then explode.
I think the census question is actually quite a good one. The variety of answers is perhaps an indication of the intellectual health of the nation.0 -
I must admit it is why I fall back on the simplistic claim that the UK immigration policy is rendered racist by our membership of the EU. It infuriates the Inners but is the easiest way to get people's attention to the fact that we turn away well educated Indians, Chinese and Africans because we are letting in so many uneducated Europeans.hunchman said:
As a libertarian I take a far more relaxed position than most in the leave camp on immigration. The thing that annoys me most is the positive discrimination in favour of EU nationals at the expense of non-EU nationals under the current arrangements. But the demographic crunch necessitates immigration of skilled workers - our economy and public services depend on it. But no politician has ever tried to explain that reality - yes it would require a longer attention span than the average voter possesses but it should be a point made all the same.TOPPING said:
I think the levels of immigration are pretty jaw-dropping and likely to sway some of those on the fence. As they might say, 330k immigrants here, 330k immigrants there, pretty soon you're talking a real population increase.hunchman said:Agree with OGH about the stupid £350m figure that Leave are using - £150m would have been fine, but to backtrack and re-spray those vans now would invite ridicule so they're in a no win situation of their own making.
Personally I think the leave campaign need to fight much more on economics - they've got a perfectly good story to tell on the EFTA / EEA model. By continuing on the immigration theme they're merely preaching to the converted - fine to spend a bit of time on it (not as though that's why I'm in the leave camp) to keep that block on side but it needs to be a much more rounded campaign than has been the case over the past week.0 -
He'll save his career like Blair saved his career by winning the Iraq vote.Sean_F said:
There's winning in the short term, and losing in the long term.Big_G_NorthWales said:
David Cameron always plays to win and that is why the Conservative party are in powerYorkcity said:
Morris , I agree .Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, whilst I agree with you on lack of enthusiasm, don't count your chickens yet. A 60/40 Remain win remains [ahem] eminently possible.
The most (domestically) important development in the campaigns so far has been the destruction of Cameron's position as a relatively trusted, unifying figure within the Conservative Party.
It's all very well winning a war, but if you piss off your own side so much they want to re-enact Caesar's death then one's strategy is flawed.
Michael Portillo said last night , that from all he knew about David Cameron if he was not PM ,he would voting to leave.
Both Cameron and Hague have surprised me with strong support for remain, with no balance on their previous positions.
I believe one should be open to change your opinion if the facts have changed.
However it is hard to understand what has changed so fundamentally apart from they are in or have been in control of the foreign office.
If Cameron scrapes a win, he'll save his career, but will still be reviled by right wing voters. As Blair is now reviled by left wing voters. What does it profit a man to secure such a victory?
It aint gonna last long.
Edit: Hit send too soon.
Major's ratings after the £ got booted from the ERM will last longer.
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I'm warming to this Leave thingy. As I understand it:-
Immigration is going to end so all our housing and education problems will be ending soon.
There won't be any bad economic consequences because I've been assured that the BoE, IMF & G20 are all talking rubbish so I don't need to worry about that anymore.
It's even better than that, we are all going to become wealthy just like Switzerland. Norway or Canada because of all our fabulous new trade deals.
Now we are going to be spending an extra £50m A DAY on the NHS once we leave.
Really, what's not to like.
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I predict all those suspended over the past few months will slowly & quietly welcomed back.Plato_Says said:0 -
You've said it.OllyT said:I'm warming to this Leave thingy. As I understand it:-
Immigration is going to end so all our housing and education problems will be ending soon.
There won't be any bad economic consequences because I've been assured that the BoE, IMF & G20 are all talking rubbish so I don't need to worry about that anymore.
It's even better than that, we are all going to become wealthy just like Switzerland. Norway or Canada because of all our fabulous new trade deals.
Now we are going to be spending an extra £50m A DAY on the NHS once we leave.
Really, what's not to like.
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Taken from the Foreign Office 4 stage plan to deal with an international crisis.Plato_Says said:
Spot on.0 -
You, Sir, are no philosopher... Maybe in charge of the sheep dip?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Sorry, I don't get the Bruce reference.HurstLlama said:
Howls of derisive laughter there, Bruce!Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
They're all Mossad fronts which back BrexitHurstLlama said:
And the common denominator between all those groups is? Asking for a friend.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I'm sure that we would have said that about the Taliban, and then ISIS turn out so much worse. The PLO and Hamas etc.MikeK said:
You can't get much nastier than Isil. I mean how many heads do you want to see severed in a day?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If a vacuum is allowed to develop and history is any guide.Philip_Thompson said:Top IS commander in Fallujah killed. Seems to be a matter of time now until all IS territory is recovered. What happens next is anyone's guess.
Any new mob will be a lot nastier than what went before.0 -
Dan HodgesFrancisUrquhart said:
I predict all those suspended over the past few months will slowly & quietly welcomed back.Plato_Says said:
Think Jews were the chief financiers of the slave trade? Then Labour is officially the party for you.0 -
We turn away Jonny Foreigner because he's a foreigner and we don't understand him.Richard_Tyndall said:
I must admit it is why I fall back on the simplistic claim that the UK immigration policy is rendered racist by our membership of the EU. It infuriates the Inners but is the easiest way to get people's attention to the fact that we turn away well educated Indians, Chinese and Africans because we are letting in so many uneducated Europeans.hunchman said:
As a libertarian I take a far more relaxed position than most in the leave camp on immigration. The thing that annoys me most is the positive discrimination in favour of EU nationals at the expense of non-EU nationals under the current arrangements. But the demographic crunch necessitates immigration of skilled workers - our economy and public services depend on it. But no politician has ever tried to explain that reality - yes it would require a longer attention span than the average voter possesses but it should be a point made all the same.TOPPING said:
I think the levels of immigration are pretty jaw-dropping and likely to sway some of those on the fence. As they might say, 330k immigrants here, 330k immigrants there, pretty soon you're talking a real population increase.hunchman said:Agree with OGH about the stupid £350m figure that Leave are using - £150m would have been fine, but to backtrack and re-spray those vans now would invite ridicule so they're in a no win situation of their own making.
Personally I think the leave campaign need to fight much more on economics - they've got a perfectly good story to tell on the EFTA / EEA model. By continuing on the immigration theme they're merely preaching to the converted - fine to spend a bit of time on it (not as though that's why I'm in the leave camp) to keep that block on side but it needs to be a much more rounded campaign than has been the case over the past week.
I'm not a member of a London club, but I can imagine entirely the same criteria. Is he 'one of us'? Has he convinced us otherwise of his merits?. Clearly the 'he's' can also be 'she's'.
We're way off piste in all this, and have been for years. All European countries similarly. We've had huge gains from our open-arms policy. The 'best of British' may turn out to be almost anyone. There are substantial losses though too. Our exemplars may turn out needing to spend their lives behind a veil. That's no trade for me.0 -
If the King's Lynn under 11 back four fancy a game for England , they can't be any worse at defending than the four playing this evening.0
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Cameron had his chance to be a hero, and to go down in the history books as such.Sean_F said:
There's winning in the short term, and losing in the long term.Big_G_NorthWales said:
David Cameron always plays to win and that is why the Conservative party are in powerYorkcity said:
Morris , I agree .Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, whilst I agree with you on lack of enthusiasm, don't count your chickens yet. A 60/40 Remain win remains [ahem] eminently possible.
The most (domestically) important development in the campaigns so far has been the destruction of Cameron's position as a relatively trusted, unifying figure within the Conservative Party.
It's all very well winning a war, but if you piss off your own side so much they want to re-enact Caesar's death then one's strategy is flawed.
Michael Portillo said last night , that from all he knew about David Cameron if he was not PM ,he would voting to leave.
Both Cameron and Hague have surprised me with strong support for remain, with no balance on their previous positions.
I believe one should be open to change your opinion if the facts have changed.
However it is hard to understand what has changed so fundamentally apart from they are in or have been in control of the foreign office.
If Cameron scrapes a win, he'll save his career, but will still be reviled by right wing voters. As Blair is now reviled by left wing voters. What does it profit a man to secure such a victory?
He blew it.0 -
So so true.Plato_Says said:0 -
They have an excellent MP!JackW said:
Of course you do .... it's LibDem-By-The-Sea ....foxinsoxuk said:I rather like North Norfolk myself.
"Yellow Peril Paddling Here"
On of the Curiosities of the GE 2015 is that outside Orkney and Shetland, I think that none of the other 7 were LD in the 97 landslide.
Holt is a lovely spot, and the marshes are a great spot to potter about with binoculars searching for the lesser spotted Yellow warbler.0 -
Great isn't it? Being a bit of a cautious individual though, do I get another vote later on if it does't happen? (not that I am suggesting for a moment that Leave are lying to me)Sean_F said:
You've said it.OllyT said:I'm warming to this Leave thingy. As I understand it:-
Immigration is going to end so all our housing and education problems will be ending soon.
There won't be any bad economic consequences because I've been assured that the BoE, IMF & G20 are all talking rubbish so I don't need to worry about that anymore.
It's even better than that, we are all going to become wealthy just like Switzerland. Norway or Canada because of all our fabulous new trade deals.
Now we are going to be spending an extra £50m A DAY on the NHS once we leave.
Really, what's not to like.
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New Thread folks?
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Nonce finder general unfortunate connection....
http://order-order.com/2016/05/27/watsons-dodgy-flat-mate/0 -
Hallam & Carshalton were surely?foxinsoxuk said:
They have an excellent MP!JackW said:
Of course you do .... it's LibDem-By-The-Sea ....foxinsoxuk said:I rather like North Norfolk myself.
"Yellow Peril Paddling Here"
On of the Curiosities of the GE 2015 is that outside Orkney and Shetland, I think that none of the other 7 were LD in the 97 landslide.
Holt is a lovely spot, and the marshes are a great spot to potter about with binoculars searching for the lesser spotted Yellow warbler.0
