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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    daodao said:

    Why did Kinnock lose in 1992? Why were the posters of Ed M in Salmond's shirt pocket so effective last year?
    Because they were crap socialists the public could not imagine as responsible Prime Minister material.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    TOPPING said:

    off topic - one thing that continues to please me about modern, PL football, and I appreciate that there is still work to be done on the terraces, is the sheer, natural inclusiveness and colourblindness of black, brown, white, asian footballers.

    Looking at any goal celebration, and in particular the Leicester players celebrating at Jamie Vardy's in Melton, one has to be encouraged.

    There's more than a touch of work to be done in the stands. Look at the faces at a Bradford, Blackburn or Leicester (rugby or soccer) match. If the grounds are selling out you can argue that it doesn't matter but that's not a claim that Bradford could ever make.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Good morning, everyone.

    Do stalking horses work under Labour's rulebook?

    Incidentally, I was browsing elsewhere and this quote came along, which seemed rather apt:
    "Henry Brooks Adams: Politics... have always been the systematic organization of hatreds."
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Labour must be breathing a sigh of relief that Tottenham drew last night
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    DavidL said:

    They need to persuade Chukka, who is not tainted with defeat. But not yet I think.
    Chuka will probably be Labour leader but not until after a 2020 loss, he would then most likely win the 2025 election. Pre 2020 the most likely replacement is McDonnell
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    DavidL said:

    I am seriously hoping that Arsenal do us a favour against City. But we will probably blow it anyway.
    Man City are not a struggling, mid/lower-league team coming into the game after a string of losses. So Arsenal should beat them.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    RE: Leicester, I think 'Dilly Ding DIlly Dong, Raneiri's catchphrase will be in the Oxford English Dictionary next year. I will tweet it with each Conservative victory this week. And will Facebook the video ofLeicester team celebrations if Zac wins.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,010
    Sean_F said:

    I think it was a joke by Harold Macmillan.

    Not a joke, a wry observation. There's a difference. This is worth a read:

    http://www.jidaily.com/8f340

    Thatcher did a great deal to change perceptions of Jews and judaism inside the Conservative party. It's probably one of the reasons why the hard left has been so willing to embrace anti-semtism.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Surely Zac's campaign cannot be divisive, hateful or even racist? He's not even in the Labour Party.

    spot on. A cover for the reds
  • Many Man City players may be rather tired after tonight's game against Real Madrid.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,348
    daodao said:

    They will get the blame and it will be held against them long-term, just like the behaviour of Judeo-Bolshevists did in the defeated Central Powers in 1918-9. It is best for Jews if they stay out of controversial areas of public life, such as politics and big business.
    Saying certain groups should avoid prominent controversial positions of public life or else their wider community will suffer is without question, whatever your justification or insistence no doubt that you wish it werent so but that's life, extremely odious,

    Sadly I don't believe that is a spoof comment, particular with posters I respected talking about others being Mossad operatives using a term Google directs to what appeared to be a neo nazi ish version of Wikipedia.

    I think I'll call it quits for the day, or possibly week, that comment, even as no surprise in the last few days, has just broken me with its offensiveness,

  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/conorpope/status/727228032134602752

    Unless you are Jewish. Or wealthy. Or WWC.

    Indeed. Usual sanctimonious bollocks. In advertising, you have to be believable. This isn't.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    This is so exciting Jack - even more than the final 30 minutes at Turf Moor last night

    Indeed so Mike ....

    I considered delaying publication by 24 hours to enable you to restore your usual equilibrium and masterful sangfroid but in wider interests of PB I finally decided to hit the presses as usual .... :smile:
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2016

    I saw something else yesterday from Remain saying it wouldn't be £4300, but something like £1800. Now we could be seeing misspeaking or a change in strategy. Either way - it's most peculiar after the Dresden style doom bombing by StrongerIn so far.
    Obviously the 100,000 figure is bullshit. They forgot to net off the tens of thousands of extra civil servants and legal experts we'd need to hire to rewrite the minutiae of our lawbook and renegotiate trade agreements from scratch.

    British jobs for British lawyers paid for by British taxpayers.

    Dunnit make you proud?

    It doesn't really matter what it costs at the end of the day, does it? We'll finally be free to wear our special union jack underpants every day like we always used to before the evil fascist EUrocrats banned us.

    It'll be great. Trust nigel & that boris bloke.

    /s
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I'm tired of the anti semitic accusations and defences now but I will say:

    How do those apples taste Roger and (some) labour supporters?

    You've thrown around racist accusations like confetti, now you're on the receiving end, fairly or not. Be careful in the future of labelling people, what goes around comes around.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Roger said:

    I don't believe Muslims do have a deep dislike for Jews any more than Jews have a deep dislike for Muslims. Both see themselves as minorities and there has always been solidarity among minorites. It's just a guess but I'd be surprised if the labour party doesn't have more jewish members than all other parties put together. The Jews have always been champions of the oppressed. Witness apartheid South Africa.
    More utter tripe from Rodger.

    I have worked extensively in the Middle East and had 2 passports because to attempt to enter another Middle East country with an Israeli stamp in your passport resulted in serious issues.. Don't even consider trying to enter Saudi. There is a visceral hatred even if you can't see it all the way from your posh pad in France.

    Stick to what you know which is the Oscars.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,376
    Roger,

    "I don't believe Muslims do have a deep dislike for Jews."

    As with any subjective opinion, it could be right and it could be wrong. My subjective opinion is the opposite. I can only go on the people I meet and Muslims tend to be easier to recognise.

    I assume that most people in your profession are gay but that's based on very few contacts.

    I believe there is polling on this (the Muslim question, I mean) so I'm sure some of our more erudite contributors can enlighten us.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I see Tony Blair and Bill Clinton are planning to campaign for Remain. It's hilarious. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/blair-and-bill-clinton-join-forces-in-campaign-against-brexit-2s96qpb60
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Miss Plato, I'd guess Clinton is still a plus, but Blair's a bloody millstone.

    "Trust me.. I'm a straight kinda guy... if we leave the EU, we'll be 45 minutes away from disaster."
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    A Mossad agent provocateur - Mark Senior was alleging that last night...
    Indeed, that claim of Mossad agents infesting and posting on PB had to be the height of tinfoilery . I think Cyclefree was even outed as a potential Mossad sleeper last night. :wink:
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    My bet on Leicester was a little late. I only got a pound ew at 3000/1 ;-)
    Congrats by the way. Leicester's success is a great sporting achievement. How many new borns in Leicester will be names Jamie or Cladio or Wes? (My sons are names Michael Thomas and Andrew Michael Thomas after Mickey Thomas's expliots for The Arse in 1989. The wife didn't fancy the name Anthony Adam or David with Seaman as middle names!)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    kle4 said:

    Saying certain groups should avoid prominent controversial positions of public life or else their wider community will suffer is without question, whatever your justification or insistence no doubt that you wish it werent so but that's life, extremely odious,

    Sadly I don't believe that is a spoof comment, particular with posters I respected talking about others being Mossad operatives using a term Google directs to what appeared to be a neo nazi ish version of Wikipedia.

    I think I'll call it quits for the day, or possibly week, that comment, even as no surprise in the last few days, has just broken me with its offensiveness,

    Do stay - when I saw you mentioning metapedia - I didn't know what it was, but having seen conservapedia or somesuch - I did wonder.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I see Tony Blair and Bill Clinton are planning to campaign for Remain. It's hilarious. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/blair-and-bill-clinton-join-forces-in-campaign-against-brexit-2s96qpb60

    I've noticed in recent days the tone from Remain has altered, both on here and elsewhere. The sneering from Meeks and Nabavi along with goading from TSE has disappeared. Not sure why and it may be that other events have taken over but for sure this isn't going the way the way they foresaw.

    Wheeling out Blair cannot be a positive, he seems determined to have his say but I'm sure he's a busted flush, a vote loser.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,261
    Why is this Shazia Awan thing a story?

    She has already flounced about Zac at least twice this year.

    Is someone getting desperate to divert attention?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,319

    Many Man City players may be rather tired after tonight's game against Real Madrid.

    Tomorrow night's
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited May 2016

    I've noticed in recent days the tone from Remain has altered, both on here and elsewhere. The sneering from Meeks and Nabavi along with goading from TSE has disappeared. Not sure why and it may be that other events have taken over but for sure this isn't going the way the way they foresaw.

    Wheeling out Blair cannot be a positive, he seems determined to have his say but I'm sure he's a busted flush, a vote loser.
    A 3 times election winner is never a loser, he could help with centrist voters and undecideds
  • I've noticed in recent days the tone from Remain has altered, both on here and elsewhere. The sneering from Meeks and Nabavi along with goading from TSE has disappeared. Not sure why and it may be that other events have taken over but for sure this isn't going the way the way they foresaw.

    Wheeling out Blair cannot be a positive, he seems determined to have his say but I'm sure he's a busted flush, a vote loser.
    ..... and introducing another interfering, post his sell by date former POTUS isn't going to help REMAIN's cause either.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Moses_ said:

    Indeed, that claim of Mossad agents infesting and posting on PB had to be the height of tinfoilery . I think Cyclefree was even outed as a potential Mossad sleeper last night. :wink:
    It's the outer fringe of David Ickery. Given Mr Senior isn't known for his sense of humour - I just looked on as others hoped he was joking... alas not.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,607
    daodao said:

    They will get the blame and it will be held against them long-term, just like the behaviour of Judeo-Bolshevists did in the defeated Central Powers in 1918-9. It is best for Jews if they stay out of controversial areas of public life, such as politics and big business.
    Substitute "blacks" or "Muslims" or "women" in that last sentence and see if you can work out just how offensive and repulsive it is.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    ..... and introducing another interfering, post his sell by date former POTUS isn't going to help REMAIN's cause either.
    Albeit husband of the likely next POTUS
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Moses..I too had to have two Passports due to my visits to Israel...I also had to visit Muslim countries.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,097
    Cyclefree said:

    Substitute "blacks" or "Muslims" or "women" in that last sentence and see if you can work out just how offensive and repulsive it is.

    Thank you Cyclefree
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,978
    HYUFD said:

    Albeit husband of the likely next POTUS
    FMOTUS?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,097
    runnymede said:
    Probably best if we all forget Lord Lawson's support for British membership of the ERM :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    geoffw said:

    FMOTUS?
    Exactly
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For anyone who missed this last night http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/02/labour-has-secretly-suspended-50-members-for-anti-semitic-and-ra
    Labour has secretly suspended 50 of its members over anti-Semitic and racist comments as officials struggle to cope with the crisis engulfing the party.

    Senior sources reveal that Labour's compliance unit has been swamped by the influx of hard-left supporters following Jeremy Corbyn's election.

    The suspensions that have been made public so far are said to be just the tip of the iceberg.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,319
    CD13 said:

    Roger,

    "I don't believe Muslims do have a deep dislike for Jews."

    As with any subjective opinion, it could be right and it could be wrong. My subjective opinion is the opposite. I can only go on the people I meet and Muslims tend to be easier to recognise.

    I assume that most people in your profession are gay but that's based on very few contacts.

    I believe there is polling on this (the Muslim question, I mean) so I'm sure some of our more erudite contributors can enlighten us.

    More gays than average and more Jews and I suppose less Muslims. .
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    rcs1000 said:

    Probably best if we all forget Lord Lawson's support for British membership of the ERM :lol:
    He's repented. Many of the others from then haven't. Nor are they likely to.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Cyclefree said:

    Substitute "blacks" or "Muslims" or "women" in that last sentence and see if you can work out just how offensive and repulsive it is.

    My word, Jews should stay out of big business? Without Jews lots of big businesses wouldn't be big.

    Hey fellow travellers in Labour lets lay your cards on the table, all that shouting racist at Ukip, was it all just a diversionary tactic?

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    I'm tired of the anti semitic accusations and defences now but I will say:

    How do those apples taste Roger and (some) labour supporters?

    You've thrown around racist accusations like confetti, now you're on the receiving end, fairly or not. Be careful in the future of labelling people, what goes around comes around.

    It seems a little like the way Labour trashed the conservatives for decades in Scotland. Equating them with virtually sub human scum. Their tarnishing of the brand Tory was so overwhelming and so successful, that when Labour shared a platform with the Conservatives to remain in the Union, they essentially contaminated their own brand with all the poison they themselves had spent years administering.

    It is on some levels extraordinary to watch some people, who in other circumstances see racism everywhere, an overused cliché, but many acted like Witchfinder Generals. There was no institution, no organisation, nothing that a group of white people could do that they could not see racism in. But now when they actually have some slapping them in the face, it's move along, nothing to see.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    I saw something else yesterday from Remain saying it wouldn't be £4300, but something like £1800. Now we could be seeing misspeaking or a change in strategy. Either way - it's most peculiar after the Dresden style doom bombing by StrongerIn so far.
    Well Miliband has claimed that BREXIT would destroy the earth - which just leaves the solar system, galaxy and universe, so one assumes they must be running out of ammunition.
  • HYUFD said:

    Albeit husband of the likely next POTUS
    Have you seen/heard Bill Clinton speaking lately ....... oh dearie me!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101

    I see Tony Blair and Bill Clinton are planning to campaign for Remain. It's hilarious. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/blair-and-bill-clinton-join-forces-in-campaign-against-brexit-2s96qpb60

    Fantastic news.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Mr. W, FGOTUS (First Gentleman, I think, would be the title).
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Roger said:

    More gays than average and more Jews and I suppose less Muslims. .
    When you say "more gays than average", what's the average?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,010
    Moses_ said:

    More utter tripe from Rodger.

    I have worked extensively in the Middle East and had 2 passports because to attempt to enter another Middle East country with an Israeli stamp in your passport resulted in serious issues.. Don't even consider trying to enter Saudi. There is a visceral hatred even if you can't see it all the way from your posh pad in France.

    Stick to what you know which is the Oscars.

    There is a visceral hatred of Israel and Jews in the Middle East. It's stupid to claim otherwise. I thought that the Israelis didn't stamp passports if asked not to.

    If Trump gets elected he is going to try to ban Moslems from entering the US, of course.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,167
    Morning all,

    We'll see if the Hodge coup comes to pass. It's a febrile time and many rumours no doubt. If it does though some of us on PB who have been saying for months that there will be an attempt this summer and have bet on labour leadership candidates accordingly will be relieved.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,533
    It's not as if Labour didn't have any previous embarrassing incidents of anti-semitism to give them a chance to get their house in order. This was over 10 years ago now:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4223091.stm
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection Countdown

    22 minutes 22 seconds
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,097
    edited May 2016

    Fantastic news.
    While Tony's presence on the Remain bench can only help us, I suspect Bill remains popular in the UK, and that he is more likely to strike a chord with voters than Obama. Fortunately, I think he'll probably be busy with his wife's election campaign.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    notme said:

    It seems a little like the way Labour trashed the conservatives for decades in Scotland. Equating them with virtually sub human scum. Their tarnishing of the brand Tory was so overwhelming and so successful, that when Labour shared a platform with the Conservatives to remain in the Union, they essentially contaminated their own brand with all the poison they themselves had spent years administering.

    It is on some levels extraordinary to watch some people, who in other circumstances see racism everywhere, an overused cliché, but many acted like Witchfinder Generals. There was no institution, no organisation, nothing that a group of white people could do that they could not see racism in. But now when they actually have some slapping them in the face, it's move along, nothing to see.
    A Swarm of Anti-Semites? :wink:
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    It's not as if Labour didn't have any previous embarrassing incidents of anti-semitism to give them a chance to get their house in order. This was over 10 years ago now:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4223091.stm

    Shh, it's the Wrong Sort Of Prejudice.
  • My bet on Leicester was a little late. I only got a pound ew at 3000/1 ;-)
    The real tragedy is that you didn't share this hunch with other PBers at the time, like *cough* others do.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,167
    Anybody else still not had the government EU leaflet?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163
    daodao said:

    Yes, so as not to get the blame, not for the reason you have stated.
    Why would they get the blame for something they hadn't done and weren't responsible for unless Labour was institutionally anti-Semitic? I think your comment just adds to all we already know about the answer to that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101

    Somewhere is a moment in time when all of Andy Burnham's various takes on multiple opinions coalesce into a credible politician. If only he could find that moment and trap it in amber...
    I think OGH summed him up well as a wally whose main achievement was to be a scouser who'd gone to Cambridge.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Mr. Putney, indeed. Almost as tragic as me continually sharing this season's terrible F1 bets :p
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    While Tony's presence on the Remain bench can only help us, I suspect Bill remains popular in the UK, and that he is more likely to strike a chord with voters than Obama. Fortunately, I think he'll probably be busy with his wife's re-election campaign.
    I don't believe Clinton is popular with people most likely to vote.

    This is going to be all about who feels most strongly, there's no doubt the younger generation favour Remain but in the middle of the Euros they'll be too busy painting their faces and watching football in pubs.

    PBers discuss nuances, the wider electorate is far more simplistic.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    0_o

    Roger Cohen, a columnist on The New York Times, recently described how at one US university, the Holocaust had been dismissed as “white-on-white crime”. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/labour-is-sneering-at-the-wrong-kind-of-voter-t7jbsb6kp
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,097

    I don't believe Clinton is popular with people most likely to vote.

    This is going to be all about who feels most strongly, there's no doubt the younger generation favour Remain but in the middle of the Euros they'll be too busy painting their faces and watching football in pubs.

    PBers discuss nuances, the wider electorate is far more simplistic.
    I'm less optimistic than you. Having looked through the history of EU referendums across Europe, they typically get turnouts in-line or above general elections. Why should we be any different?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163

    Congratulations to Burnley on promotion. Been there done that. Who knows what the future might hold for next season!
    Yes, proving quite a season for pbc writers, football-wise. Bradford City into the L1 playoffs too. Aiming for the medium time!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101
    rcs1000 said:

    While Tony's presence on the Remain bench can only help us, I suspect Bill remains popular in the UK, and that he is more likely to strike a chord with voters than Obama. Fortunately, I think he'll probably be busy with his wife's election campaign.
    Bill Clinton popular in the UK? Really? Last time I checked he was a laughing stock amongst those who remember him in office, and most of the under 30s don't know who he is.

    Personally, I can't wait for his punch to my solar plexus.
  • Mr. Putney, indeed. Almost as tragic as me continually sharing this season's terrible F1 bets :p

    Well, there is that I suppose, but at least you demonstrate a sharing nature.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,533
    rcs1000 said:

    Why should we be any different?
    Is that the latest Remain slogan?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    weejonnie said:

    Well Miliband has claimed that BREXIT would destroy the earth - which just leaves the solar system, galaxy and universe, so one assumes they must be running out of ammunition.
    Brexit will obviously lead to the universe suffering gravitational collapse and disappearing within its own event horizon. As shown by the dummy variables in the Treasury trade equations.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,377
    Moses_ said:

    Indeed, that claim of Mossad agents infesting and posting on PB had to be the height of tinfoilery . I think Cyclefree was even outed as a potential Mossad sleeper last night. :wink:
    I wasn't sure if Mark Senior was joking.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,137

    Thatcher had a number of prominent Jews in her cabinets - Lawson, Joseph, Brittan all spring to mind - I don't recall it being a problem for many people, although I was quite young then
    “that it includes more Old Estonians than it does Old Etonians.”
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm less optimistic than you. Having looked through the history of EU referendums across Europe, they typically get turnouts in-line or above general elections. Why should we be any different?
    I think there is a fundamental difference between the UK and other Eu populations, in that the British are not that engaged with the project - at least not as engaged as our politicians.

    I could easily see this being a very low turnout. Already the newspapers are moving on, the public aren't talking about it much. There's been a bit of heat, not much light, and both sides are seen as fairly dishonest (even by some of those who support either principle fully).
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm less optimistic than you. Having looked through the history of EU referendums across Europe, they typically get turnouts in-line or above general elections. Why should we be any different?
    How many referenda has the UK held? I don't mean Scotland, that was an issue that absorbed a country in a way the EU simply doesn't.

    Look, its all about opinions, this place is by no means representative. I'm a politically engaged person, virtually nobody talks about the EU in everyday life.

    I'll stick by my long held belief that Leave wins on a low turnout, yes its wishful thinking but time and again I've explained why.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,319
    Moses_ said:

    More utter tripe from Rodger.

    I have worked extensively in the Middle East and had 2 passports because to attempt to enter another Middle East country with an Israeli stamp in your passport resulted in serious issues.. Don't even consider trying to enter Saudi. There is a visceral hatred even if you can't see it all the way from your posh pad in France.

    Stick to what you know which is the Oscars.
    I too have worked often in the Middle East and it's true that if you have 'Israel' stamped on your passport you will need a second passport for the arab countries. But I have never encountered prejudice or seen it.

    But these conversations are silly. Who are we talking about? I work with educated people. Far more of the people I work with in the Arab countries are tri lingual and have a university education than would be the case in the UK.

    As for Saudi it's another planet. I have shot hair commercials there where you are not permitted to see face and hair in the same shot. When you see the face the hair has to be covered. The set can't have windows which can in any way form a cross or have any pictures on the wall other than script. But the people are very nice. Much nicer than the American clients who are employing me
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Anybody else still not had the government EU leaflet?

    Me neither. Only PCC election here too.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163
    DavidL said:

    In fairness he did with the Hillsborough Inquiry and I give him a lot of respect for that. But he has struggled to achieve that focus anywhere else.
    But the Hillsborough Inquiry was effectively a model of how to run a backbench single-issue campaign. That he happened to be on the front-bench at the time is beside the point. His success there says little about whether he has the skills needed as a leader.
  • Morning all,

    We'll see if the Hodge coup comes to pass. It's a febrile time and many rumours no doubt. If it does though some of us on PB who have been saying for months that there will be an attempt this summer and have bet on labour leadership candidates accordingly will be relieved.

    Both our main parties are wallowing in a cesspit of civil war, hate, recrimination and feelings of betrayal. In both cases 100% caused by the leader. One is a total see you next Thursday who at heart simply does not love his country and has allowed it to morph into unthinking support for an ideology that will ultimately ruin us. The other is....exactly the same.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,167

    Me neither. Only PCC election here too.
    Likewise, so that can't be the excuse.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,607
    CD13 said:

    Roger,

    "I don't believe Muslims do have a deep dislike for Jews."

    As with any subjective opinion, it could be right and it could be wrong. My subjective opinion is the opposite. I can only go on the people I meet and Muslims tend to be easier to recognise.

    I assume that most people in your profession are gay but that's based on very few contacts.

    I believe there is polling on this (the Muslim question, I mean) so I'm sure some of our more erudite contributors can enlighten us.


    The recent poll gives a clue. It does not paint the pretty picture Roger would like to think. And there is the Mehdi Hasan article from a couple of years back,of course.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,533
    Sean_F said:

    I wasn't sure if Mark Senior was joking.
    To be fair, people are also regularly accused of being Kremlin trolls.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Congratulations to Burnley on promotion. Been there done that. Who knows what the future might hold for next season!
    Shocking news reaching me from the south Midlands ....

    Reports are starting to filter through that following Gary Linicker's pledge earlier in the season that should Leicester FC win the Premier league that he would present MotD in his underpants that Mike Smithson has indicated that in the unlikely event of Burnley FC gaining more points than Aston Villa did this year he will pose naked on the front page of the Bedford Pig Breeders and Liberal Agricultural Workers Focus Newsletter for May 2017.

    The Home Secretary has been alerted and the Head of the Obscene Publications Squad has cancelled his holiday in Rochdale .....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Mr. Putney, it must be said, a terrible start to the season is traditional (although this year's has been a bit worse than I would've expected, even so).
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    London non-anedote alert: Mood in camps - Tories, realistic. Labour, nervous. Turnout forecast sub 35%. London has more Labour supporters, but will Tories have more voters? Come on you blues. Is Zac 5,000 to 1 like Leicester? I'm off for my first of 4 two hour sessions. Cheerio now.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,377

    To be fair, people are also regularly accused of being Kremlin trolls.
    I'd have thought Mossad agents would have bigger fish to fry than posting on blogs.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163
    matt said:

    There's more than a touch of work to be done in the stands. Look at the faces at a Bradford, Blackburn or Leicester (rugby or soccer) match. If the grounds are selling out you can argue that it doesn't matter but that's not a claim that Bradford could ever make.
    Not far off, actually. 18000 attendances regularly this season.

    But the culture among Bradford's Pakistani/Bangladeshi community is that it's 'not cool' to support minor teams. nearly all who have an interest in football (which is many) support the top premiership teams who are competing for a Europa League place. Interestingly, they do tend to support England - presumably because England is reasonably successful whereas Pakistan and Bangladesh aren't (that national-level support doesn't cross over into cricket, for example).
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection :

    Should The United Kingdom Remain A Member Of The European Union Or Leave The European Union?

    Remain 54% (-1.5) .. Leave 46% (+1.5)

    Turnout Projection 62% (-0.5)

    Changes from 29th April.

    ......................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE4EU - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors For European Union
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,509
    Either Remain's strategy is working, in which case the addition of Blair and Clinton is I suppose at least neutral, or it isn't, in which case this looks a like a mistake.

    It's also becoming embarrassingly obvious how much the US is terrified of losing its EU mole.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,319

    When you say "more gays than average", what's the average?
    Hair and make up about 50%. Male stylists about the same. I think that's above average?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016
    Cyclefree said:


    The recent poll gives a clue. It does not paint the pretty picture Roger would like to think. And there is the Mehdi Hasan article from a couple of years back,of course.
    ICM, which interviewed 1,081 adults between April and May last year, for a Channel 4 programme called ‘What British Muslims Really Think,’ aired on Wednesday night.

    More than a quarter of respondents felt Jews were “responsible for most wars,” compared to a 6 per cent average across the UK, while almost four in ten felt Jews had “too much control over global affairs,” compared to a ten per cent average over the general population.

    The survey also showed that 34 per cent “don’t care what happens to anyone but their own kind,” with the same percentage thought that “Jews still talk too much about the Holocaust”.

    Elsewhere, three in ten said Jews “think they are better than other people” and four in ten said Jews were “more loyal to Israel than to the UK,” but only a quarter felt anti-Semitism was a problem in the UK.
    http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/disturbing-results-revealed-in-poll-of-uk-muslim-attitudes-towards-jews/
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Dixie said:

    Indeed. Usual sanctimonious bollocks. In advertising, you have to be believable. This isn't.
    It's rather devisive as well. you're either with us or against us kind of thing. Pretty agressive.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,607
    Moses_ said:

    Indeed, that claim of Mossad agents infesting and posting on PB had to be the height of tinfoilery . I think Cyclefree was even outed as a potential Mossad sleeper last night. :wink:
    I'm quite proud of that, I must say.

    From being half-dead in a NY hospital to Mossad agent in less than a week. It's not my normal sort of week.

    :)



  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dixie said:

    Indeed. Usual sanctimonious bollocks. In advertising, you have to be believable. This isn't.
    Wasnt there a perception issue identified though, that the Labour Party was seen as the party of the workshy and the undeserving? If so, it could be said that kind of campaign was counter productive...
    “Across all the groups, the Labour party was felt to be on the side of the undeserving – particularly the workshy and immigrants. In the six years I’ve been doing focus groups with these people, I have never seen Labour’s core brand strength of being ‘for ordinary people’ more recessive. It is part of the party’s past, but a very long way from being part of the present reputation of the party.

    “Participants really struggled to dredge up any positive associations with the Labour party. The most commonly mentioned strength was investment in schools and hospitals and there was also a sense that Labour kept interest rates low for a long time. But the abiding sense was that the last 13 years have ended in failure, with the country plunging downhill.”

    He wrote: “There were three very clear threshold issues where the party needs to show a new approach: immigration, benefits and the deficit/economy.”
  • eekeek Posts: 29,557

    Either Remain's strategy is working, in which case the addition of Blair and Clinton is I suppose at least neutral, or it isn't, in which case this looks a like a mistake.

    It's also becoming embarrassingly obvious how much the US is terrified of losing its EU mole.

    Is Blair really neutral nowadays... Once upon he might have been, now for many he is going to be seen as a pig in the trough...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163

    ..... and introducing another interfering, post his sell by date former POTUS isn't going to help REMAIN's cause either.
    Mentioning Clinton, has anyone determined what his title will be after January next year, or will he - confusingly - continue to be referred to as 'Mr President Clinton', as is customary for ex-POTUS's?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Mr. Slackbladder, that reminds me of Martin Freeman's PPB.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ScottyNational: Populism: The SNP aren't just populists willing to jump on any old bandwagon to link it to independence , says Leicester fan Nicola Sturgeon
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Not a joke, a wry observation. There's a difference. This is worth a read:

    http://www.jidaily.com/8f340

    Thatcher did a great deal to change perceptions of Jews and judaism inside the Conservative party. It's probably one of the reasons why the hard left has been so willing to embrace anti-semtism.
    Thanks - fascinating article and possibly one of the sources of some of the Left's anti-semitetism today.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098
    edited May 2016
    Hmm I've still not received my PCC postal vote. Seems I'll be disenfranchised for this election - not too fussed as it is the PCC, but I ticked the box for postal votes at all future and I'd quite fancy a vote on Brexit or Remain...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,396
    Mr. Pulpstar, presumably you can return to voting in person, though?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,607
    edited May 2016
    notme said:

    It seems a little like the way Labour trashed the conservatives for decades in Scotland. Equating them with virtually sub human scum. Their tarnishing of the brand Tory was so overwhelming and so successful, that when Labour shared a platform with the Conservatives to remain in the Union, they essentially contaminated their own brand with all the poison they themselves had spent years administering.

    It is on some levels extraordinary to watch some people, who in other circumstances see racism everywhere, an overused cliché, but many acted like Witchfinder Generals. There was no institution, no organisation, nothing that a group of white people could do that they could not see racism in. But now when they actually have some slapping them in the face, it's move along, nothing to see.
    In the Left's mind racism is something you accuse others of being not something you can be accused of.

    This is the mess you get into when you have no principles but simply work on the basis of identity. That is why the Left find it so difficult to accept that Muslims (their current favourite "oppressed" group) might themselves be both victims of prejudice and a source of it. Labour are not against racism, whoever the racist is - the principled position. They are against it only if it can be shown to be by a group they dislike and against a group they like. Hence the current hysterical attempts to downplay the anti-Semitism displayed by some of their own members and supporters and shameful attempts to blame the victims for their fate.

    As I posted last night: I don't think Labour has been in the vanguard of the fight against racism for some time now. It seems to me that it uses racism as a sword to prevent scrutiny of an odious moral and cultural relativity which has led it to fail to make any distinction between the liberal and the illiberal, between the democratic and the authoritarian, between the egalitarian and the misogynist, between the socially liberal and the homophobe, between the tolerant and the intolerant.

    Labour has been living on the moral credit of its past fights against intolerance. Recent events have shown how empty that bank of moral credit now really is.

    When Labour return to believing in and sticking with values rather than arbitrary identities then they will be the morally decent party they once were.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098

    Mr. Pulpstar, presumably you can return to voting in person, though?

    Just phoned them - sounds like it has got lost in the post !

    Apparently all postal votes for EU Ref will be received by 3rd June.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,251

    Mentioning Clinton, has anyone determined what his title will be after January next year, or will he - confusingly - continue to be referred to as 'Mr President Clinton', as is customary for ex-POTUS's?
    The First Gentleman?

    The First Lord?
This discussion has been closed.