Wow. a ten-point lead would get him the nomination, 15 points would get 90% of the delegates.
Despite this latest poll, showing Trump having a huge lead in the largest state of all by far, those nice folk at Wm. Hill continue to offer Will Donald Trump clinch Republican presidential nomination before Cleveland convention? at seemingly very generous odds of 1.57 or 4/7 in old money. I remember from long ago my near namesake on PB, PtP, pointing out that Hills' Political expert "Sidney" was rather prone to sleeping in of a morning, resulting in bargain prices being available - this one can't last much longer surely, but DYOR.
Many thanks to you White Rabbit for highlighting this value ..... I've just topped up.
I did attempt to quiz customer support on what it means to "clinch" the nomination. However after twenty minutes of messing around, it became clear they knew no more than us.
Indeed, "clinch" is a rather vague, not to say potentially unfortunate term ..... let's hope it's not Hillspeak for gabbing one by the spheroids or suchlike. More seriously though, I imagine that if Trump has not secured sufficient delegates prior to the GOP convention, then procedures need to have been put in place for resolving the nomination - in the absence of which then Trump is presumably the winner!
I can't see that market, however the US double -
03 May 2016 - 2016 US Presidential Election - Who will be the official Democrat and Republican Candiates in the Presidential Election
Clinton / Trump @ 2/7
is money for old rope.
It's here but Sidney has trimmed the price slightly to 1.5 ( or 0.5/1) :
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
Wow. a ten-point lead would get him the nomination, 15 points would get 90% of the delegates.
Despite this latest poll, showing Trump having a huge lead in the largest state of all by far, those nice folk at Wm. Hill continue to offer Will Donald Trump clinch Republican presidential nomination before Cleveland convention? at seemingly very generous odds of 1.57 or 4/7 in old money. I remember from long ago my near namesake on PB, PtP, pointing out that Hills' Political expert "Sidney" was rather prone to sleeping in of a morning, resulting in bargain prices being available - this one can't last much longer surely, but DYOR.
Many thanks to you White Rabbit for highlighting this value ..... I've just topped up.
I did attempt to quiz customer support on what it means to "clinch" the nomination. However after twenty minutes of messing around, it became clear they knew no more than us.
Indeed, "clinch" is a rather vague, not to say potentially unfortunate term ..... let's hope it's not Hillspeak for gabbing one by the spheroids or suchlike. More seriously though, I imagine that if Trump has not secured sufficient delegates prior to the GOP convention, then procedures need to have been put in place for resolving the nomination - in the absence of which then Trump is presumably the winner!
I can't see that market, however the US double -
03 May 2016 - 2016 US Presidential Election - Who will be the official Democrat and Republican Candiates in the Presidential Election
Clinton / Trump @ 2/7
is money for old rope.
It's here but Sidney has trimmed the price slightly to 1.5 ( or 0.5/1) :
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
A sure sign of a slimy professional power hungry politician is switching parties - normal people don't go from blue to red when offended by a particular event.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
The EU can talk all it likes - it ain't getting our nukes in its army. And without them....
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
That surprises me considering how much is bet on single matches (which are, admittedly, 'win asap' events).
I do hope that Hodge does not challenge Corbyn, as she is Jewish. It would merely add fuel to the general perception that Jews and Zionist sympathisers are currently trying to knife the Labour leadership and lead to an increase in anti-Semitism. However deplorable their views, the witch hunt against Labour representatives expressing anti-Semitic opinions will back-fire on the Jewish community as a whole, particularly if this brings down the Labour leadership. The malevolent Guido Fawkes is doing the Jews no favours.
Brilliant
By your sick and perverted logic Jews should not complain about anti semitism because that will lead to more anti semitism.
Decent Labour supporters - is this really the sort of person you are happy to share your party with?
I read Daodao comments on this mornings thread and just felt more and more depressed. His comments are just plain unacceptable and like others on here I just feel I want to have 'time off' from this forum. There is a good and lively debate on the referendum with strong views on both sides but this pales into insignificance with the tribulations within the labour party and some quite extraordinary views and expressions of intolerance. I think a day spent with my grandchildren and their innocence will be richly rewarding
I felt horrified and angry. I'm not going to let such comments go unchallenged.
I understand your reaction. But "For evil to flourish it is enough that good men do nothing." So I am going to do something, little as that is.
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
The betting wasn't all antepost, the £4.6m wasn't just £1 punters at fancy prices.
I'm amazed that on a betting site people lack even a basic understanding of punting.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
It's nice of them to spread the message that everyone who doesn't vote Labour is a Tory. That must be close to 70% for Cameron according to their logic. A huge mandate in anyone's book.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
A sure sign of a slimy professional power hungry politician is switching parties - normal people don't go from blue to red when offended by a particular event.
Well rid.
Normal people don't go from blue to red full stop.
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
The betting wasn't all antepost, the £4.6m wasn't just £1 punters at fancy prices.
I'm amazed that on a betting site people lack even a basic understanding of punting.
This is by far one of the funniest comments I've ever seen on the site.
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
That surprises me considering how much is bet on single matches (which are, admittedly, 'win asap' events).
That's the true flipside of all these loss figures being bandied about; the week-to-week results have been exceptionally good.
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
Not yet.
Interesting response. What are you waiting for?
Cameron to justify it so he can agree
Oh come off it. I've never been a party drone - as this topic should highlight.
A sure sign of a slimy professional power hungry politician is switching parties - normal people don't go from blue to red when offended by a particular event.
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
The betting wasn't all antepost, the £4.6m wasn't just £1 punters at fancy prices.
I'm amazed that on a betting site people lack even a basic understanding of punting.
This is by far one of the funniest comments I've ever seen on the site.
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
The betting wasn't all antepost, the £4.6m wasn't just £1 punters at fancy prices.
I'm amazed that on a betting site people lack even a basic understanding of punting.
This is by far one of the funniest comments I've ever seen on the site.
Really?
Skybet paid out £4.6m, anyone know how much they took - or were all their bets Leicester fans in August at fancy prices?
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
I agree.
But, given that we have NATO, what is an EU army going to do except duplicate the number of brass hats, while doing nothing to enhance capability?
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
Not yet.
Interesting response. What are you waiting for?
Cameron to justify it so he can agree
Oh come off it. I've never been a party drone - as this topic should highlight.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
The umbrella protection from the USA is going to go and when the decision is made it will be rapid..
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
I'm pretty trenchant in my views of Rachael Sylvester when she strays into commenting on Tories - but she's rock solid on Labour since early Tony vs Gordon. She's taking no prisoners on Labourites and anti-semitism today
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
Not yet.
Interesting response. What are you waiting for?
Ultimate control of armed forces is a defining feature of sovereignty. An EU with its own armed forces accountable *only* to the EU (and accountability has to lie in the final analysis in one place), is for practical purposes, a fully blown state. It's not just the army, navy and air force; it's that it would then need substantial funding and a genuine single foreign policy. There'd also need to be a much beefier democracy to hold it to account.
Unless there is the will among the public and politicians to build that state, then it would be counterproductive to try to build central features of it piecemeal and without the other necessary supports they'd need. There isn't that will.
Mr. Runnymede, quite. I suspect Remain will handily win, the EU army will come into being, and some of those who voted to stay will rather regret it.
Won't be a big bang with the army, though. Salami-slicing all the way. National armies will remain, they'll simply be gradually diminished, their duties taken over by the larger EU army.
You can't avoid a 'big bang'. A EU army needs an EU C-in-C and an EU Commissioner. *Those* are the Big bang moments. Anything else is just reverseable cooperation.
But you are in any case comfortable with that David, aren't you?
Not yet.
Interesting response. What are you waiting for?
Cameron to justify it so he can agree
Oh come off it. I've never been a party drone - as this topic should highlight.
Fair enough, but I'm still interested in knowing what you are waiting for David.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Did you miss Michael Howard's 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?
I haven't felt so uncomfortable about British politics since 1984 when Thatcher was running riot and some very unpleasant people were riding on her coat tails. The Bennite/Foot Labour Party was equally unattractive and similarly infiltrated by people with an agenda that was both alien and unpleasant.
One of the sayings I find most often comes true is that 'the dawn follows the darkest night'. In this case though it's in reverse. For the first time for years we had a reasonably benign Tory Party and a Labour Party in transition. Completely unelectable but at least they were being forced to rebuild......
And then in a couple of weeks the Tories self immolated and Labour at their weakest have had the scaffolding pulled from under them by some dark forces as yet unknown..........
Dear God Roger, listen to yourself.
It is self inflicted, it is not a fecking Tory or Mossad plot.
I've never suggested or thought it was a Tory or Mossad plot! It that sense it isn't a plot at all. It's a nasty blogger who has the support of many people who share his aims. It happened to a lesser extent with UKIP when every day another councillor was outed. It never really gained legs because no one expected better from UKIPers. The problem with these witch hunts is how indiscriminate they are. They attract all sorts of self seekers and it's impossible to guess where it'll end.
Labour has to suck it up. The members voted for and continues to give strong support to a leadership that has happily indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for 30 year and more; and the furore has been caused by how that leadership has responded to the anti-Semitism that has been exposed inside the party. Of course Guido, the Mail etc wish Labour ill, but if the problem did not exist they would not have the stories to run.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Did you miss Michael Howard's 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?
"Labour's election strategist, Alan Milburn, was today forced to defend the party's controversial proposed advertising, as the Tories dubbed it a "campaign of sly anti-semitism".
The Conservative frontbench spokesman, Julian Lewis, described one poster of Michael Howard swinging a stopwatch as an "outrageous Fagin smear".
He made the remarks just hours after the Labour party removed the images, which were proposed as the centrepiece of a new poster campaign, from its website."
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
I agree.
But, given that we have NATO, what is an EU army going to do except duplicate the number of brass hats, while doing nothing to enhance capability?
I think that's pricelessly it.
Aside from the UK and France (both of whom can do very little without US logistical support anyway) the military strength of the EU's member states is rather puny.
A self-defence force, a few eurofighters, a coastal greywater navy and a couple of frigates seems to be the standard fare.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
The umbrella protection from the USA is going to go and when the decision is made it will be rapid..
Yes. That is one reason that has pushed me towards a European answer. What does the US get out of NATO?
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
The criticism there is two-fold: first it is not accurate. If only a fraction of what has been said about Jews in the last few days had been said about Muslims we'd have heard wails of Islamophobia up and down the land. Second, people have been wary of criticising Muslims precisely because of the concern of violent reaction from some in that community.
Do you really need reminding, Roger, that people have been killed for saying something about Muslims or Islam that some Muslim somewhere didn't like?
So what he says is factually inaccurate.
Finally, he implies that there is some great Jewish lobby behind all the complaints orchestrating this. That - if not anti-Semitic in itself - is perilously close to some well-worn anti-Semitic tropes.
The people now arguing most strongly for the right to offend Jews are those who have shouted the loudest about not offending other groups. Well, if offence is to be the measure then all groups are entitled to take offence, Jews included. Or we could be a bit more grown up and accept that we are entitled to say things that others don't like and that this applies to all, including Muslims - usually the quickest to play the "I'm offended" card.
I haven't felt so uncomfortable about British politics since 1984 when Thatcher was running riot and some very unpleasant people were riding on her coat tails. The Bennite/Foot Labour Party was equally unattractive and similarly infiltrated by people with an agenda that was both alien and unpleasant.
One of the sayings I find most often comes true is that 'the dawn follows the darkest night'. In this case though it's in reverse. For the first time for years we had a reasonably benign Tory Party and a Labour Party in transition. Completely unelectable but at least they were being forced to rebuild......
And then in a couple of weeks the Tories self immolated and Labour at their weakest have had the scaffolding pulled from under them by some dark forces as yet unknown..........
Dear God Roger, listen to yourself.
It is self inflicted, it is not a fecking Tory or Mossad plot.
I've never suggested or thought it was a Tory or Mossad plot! It that sense it isn't a plot at all. It's a nasty blogger who has the support of many people who share his aims. It happened to a lesser extent with UKIP when every day another councillor was outed. It never really gained legs because no one expected better from UKIPers. The problem with these witch hunts is how indiscriminate they are. They attract all sorts of self seekers and it's impossible to guess where it'll end.
Labour has to suck it up. The members voted for and continues to give strong support to a leadership that has happily indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for 30 year and more; and the furore has been caused by how that leadership has responded to the anti-Semitism that has been exposed inside the party. Of course Guido, the Mail etc wish Labour ill, but if the problem did not exist they would not have the stories to run.
Read the Paul Flynn expose today. Is this a deserved punisment because loads of people paid £3 and chose a clown?
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Did you miss Michael Howard's 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?
or Matt's classic "that wasn't what we were thinking" cartoon the following day in the DT.
Somebody wrote downthread Michael Howard was a Jew, I honestly never knew and if he was so what? I met him at a function about 15 years ago, a really nice man.
Identity politics is becoming increasingly worrying, I'm not sure any party is guilt free.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Did you miss Michael Howard's 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?
No. And I didn't vote for him. Your point being?
I didn't miss either Labour's attempts to make something of Howard's and Letwin's Jewishness in a pretty unpleasant dog-whistle campaign - quite some years ago. For that party to attack Goldsmith now is rich, given its own sordid history of dog whistling. See, for instance, Livingstone the last time he stood for Mayor.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
The umbrella protection from the USA is going to go and when the decision is made it will be rapid..
Yes. That is one reason that has pushed me towards a European answer. What does the US get out of NATO?
Military and political cooperation in it's pursuit of world hegemony from all member states?
I haven't felt so uncomfortable about British politics since 1984 when Thatcher was running riot and some very unpleasant people were riding on her coat tails. The Bennite/Foot Labour Party was equally unattractive and similarly infiltrated by people with an agenda that was both alien and unpleasant.
One of the sayings I find most often comes true is that 'the dawn follows the darkest night'. In this case though it's in reverse. For the first time for years we had a reasonably benign Tory Party and a Labour Party in transition. Completely unelectable but at least they were being forced to rebuild......
And then in a couple of weeks the Tories self immolated and Labour at their weakest have had the scaffolding pulled from under them by some dark forces as yet unknown..........
Dear God Roger, listen to yourself.
It is self inflicted, it is not a fecking Tory or Mossad plot.
I've never suggested or thought it was a Tory or Mossad plot! It that sense it isn't a plot at all. It's a nasty blogger who has the support of many people who share his aims. It happened to a lesser extent with UKIP when every day another councillor was outed. It never really gained legs because no one expected better from UKIPers. The problem with these witch hunts is how indiscriminate they are. They attract all sorts of self seekers and it's impossible to guess where it'll end.
Labour has to suck it up. The members voted for and continues to give strong support to a leadership that has happily indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for 30 year and more; and the furore has been caused by how that leadership has responded to the anti-Semitism that has been exposed inside the party. Of course Guido, the Mail etc wish Labour ill, but if the problem did not exist they would not have the stories to run.
Always easier to shoot the messenger than deal with the message.
We're getting a masterclass in that from Labour at the moment.
A sure sign of a slimy professional power hungry politician is switching parties - normal people don't go from blue to red when offended by a particular event.
Well rid.
Absolutely. Was it only as recently as 2004 that SCon candidate Adam WATP Tomkins was appearing on stage with Tommy Sheridan signing a declaration of independence for a Scottish republic and calling for the dissolution of the monarchy? What a 'journey' that lad's been on.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Did you miss Michael Howard's 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
The umbrella protection from the USA is going to go and when the decision is made it will be rapid..
Yes. That is one reason that has pushed me towards a European answer. What does the US get out of NATO?
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
I agree.
But, given that we have NATO, what is an EU army going to do except duplicate the number of brass hats, while doing nothing to enhance capability?
I think that's pricelessly it.
Aside from the UK and France (both of whom can do very little without US logistical support anyway) the military strength of the EU's member states is rather puny.
A self-defence force, a few eurofighters, a coastal greywater navy and a couple of frigates seems to be the standard fare.
If – the EU’s aim is to establish an EU wide collective army, surely it would only be a matter of time before member states are required to beef up their military capability where necessary and introduce legislation for minimum military budget expenditure?
I haven't felt so uncomfortable about British politics since 1984 when Thatcher was running riot and some very unpleasant people were riding on her coat tails. The Bennite/Foot Labour Party was equally unattractive and similarly infiltrated by people with an agenda that was both alien and unpleasant.
One of the sayings I find most often comes true is that 'the dawn follows the darkest night'. In this case though it's in reverse. For the first time for years we had a reasonably benign Tory Party and a Labour Party in transition. Completely unelectable but at least they were being forced to rebuild......
And then in a couple of weeks the Tories self immolated and Labour at their weakest have had the scaffolding pulled from under them by some dark forces as yet unknown..........
Dear God Roger, listen to yourself.
It is self inflicted, it is not a fecking Tory or Mossad plot.
I've never suggested or thought it was a Tory or Mossad plot! It that sense it isn't a plot at all. It's a nasty blogger who has the support of many people who share his aims. It happened to a lesser extent with UKIP when every day another councillor was outed. It never really gained legs because no one expected better from UKIPers. The problem with these witch hunts is how indiscriminate they are. They attract all sorts of self seekers and it's impossible to guess where it'll end.
Labour has to suck it up. The members voted for and continues to give strong support to a leadership that has happily indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for 30 year and more; and the furore has been caused by how that leadership has responded to the anti-Semitism that has been exposed inside the party. Of course Guido, the Mail etc wish Labour ill, but if the problem did not exist they would not have the stories to run.
I think that's it: context is all. An isolated incident here or there which party hasn't had an issue? Put EdM back in charge, or any of the candidates last year, for that matter, and the Labour Party could rightly and indignantly rally around and against the offending comments or members.
But as you say with a leadership, and associate leadership, which has been steeped in anti-imperialist rhetoric for the past 50 years, and which equates Israel with the Great Satan, and therefore the very definition of imperialist oppressor....well, to quote Mao, ironically enough wholly inappropriately in this instance...let a hundred flowers bloom...
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
Just reading a thing on the BBC about how this is the biggest set of elections for 20 years or something.
I had not really registered, and am feeling left out - no elections where i live! (Well there's a Police and Crime Commissioner one but that doesn't count...)
All parties seem to be crap at the moment so may well not have voted anyway... slippery shyster Cameron, ageing Trot Corbyn, non-entity Farron or Little Englander Farage...none of their respective mobs holds any great appeal currently.
Morning all. I've been very busy these last few days with the Mayfield Festival. I'll post a link to a video of my debut as a rap artist later.
I see @blackburn53 is as unpleasant as ever, and not much else seems to have changed.
It looks as though Ireland is indeed going to end up with an FG minority government but probably with independents in the Cabinet. If so, I'm not sure how the bookies will settle that.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
The criticism there is two-fold: first it is not accurate. If only a fraction of what has been said about Jews in the last few days had been said about Muslims we'd have heard wails of Islamophobia up and down the land. Second, people have been wary of criticising Muslims precisely because of the concern of violent reaction from some in that community.
Do you really need reminding, Roger, that people have been killed for saying something about Muslims or Islam that some Muslim somewhere didn't like?
So what he says is factually inaccurate.
Finally, he implies that there is some great Jewish lobby behind all the complaints orchestrating this. That - if not anti-Semitic in itself - is perilously close to some well-worn anti-Semitic tropes.
The people now arguing most strongly for the right to offend Jews are those who have shouted the loudest about not offending other groups. Well, if offence is to be the measure then all groups are entitled to take offence, Jews included. Or we could be a bit more grown up and accept that we are entitled to say things that others don't like and that this applies to all, including Muslims - usually the quickest to play the "I'm offended" card.
It's the double standards which grate.
I'm not sure anyone is arguing for the right to offend Jews. Most seem to be arguing that people are confusing 'Israel' with 'Jews' which I think a large minority of British Jews would find offensive. I AM arguing for the right to offend. Jews and Muslims. I found the 'I am Charlie' invigorating though I now realize it could never withstand a Daily Mail firestorm.
(I must say though I did like your post. It was much more thoughtful than many of the lurid ones that this subject seems to attract)
I haven't felt so uncomfortable about British politics since 1984 when Thatcher was running riot and some very unpleasant people were riding on her coat tails. The Bennite/Foot Labour Party was equally unattractive and similarly infiltrated by people with an agenda that was both alien and unpleasant.
One of the sayings I find most often comes true is that 'the dawn follows the darkest night'. In this case though it's in reverse. For the first time for years we had a reasonably benign Tory Party and a Labour Party in transition. Completely unelectable but at least they were being forced to rebuild......
And then in a couple of weeks the Tories self immolated and Labour at their weakest have had the scaffolding pulled from under them by some dark forces as yet unknown..........
Dear God Roger, listen to yourself.
It is self inflicted, it is not a fecking Tory or Mossad plot.
I've never suggested or thought it was a Tory or Mossad plot! It that sense it isn't a plot at all. It's a nasty blogger who has the support of many people who share his aims. It happened to a lesser extent with UKIP when every day another councillor was outed. It never really gained legs because no one expected better from UKIPers. The problem with these witch hunts is how indiscriminate they are. They attract all sorts of self seekers and it's impossible to guess where it'll end.
Labour has to suck it up. The members voted for and continues to give strong support to a leadership that has happily indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for 30 year and more; and the furore has been caused by how that leadership has responded to the anti-Semitism that has been exposed inside the party. Of course Guido, the Mail etc wish Labour ill, but if the problem did not exist they would not have the stories to run.
Always easier to shoot the messenger than deal with the message.
We're getting a masterclass in that from Labour at the moment.
The 20k petitioning to have John Mann disciplined is a case in point.
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
For European countries (including the UK) to augment their capabilities would be a very good thing given current capabilities and threats, irrespective of the EU.
I agree.
But, given that we have NATO, what is an EU army going to do except duplicate the number of brass hats, while doing nothing to enhance capability?
I think that's pricelessly it.
Aside from the UK and France (both of whom can do very little without US logistical support anyway) the military strength of the EU's member states is rather puny.
A self-defence force, a few eurofighters, a coastal greywater navy and a couple of frigates seems to be the standard fare.
If – the EU’s aim is to establish an EU wide collective army, surely it would only be a matter of time before member states are required to beef up their military capability where necessary and introduce legislation for minimum military budget expenditure?
They'd need more manpower as well.
How do you suppose they might get that? Universal military service, perhaps?
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
Oh come on, you can get that chariot extracted from the inaccessible place it was put on the NHS, surely?
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
As a Welsh rugby player who has toured Ireland and Northern Ireland seven times, I can attest that the Welsh hatred of the England team pales into insignificance compared to over there.
I watched England play Scotland in the 6N in Belfast and wow, if an Englishman had walked in that bar they'd have eaten him alive. Scary.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
He did question the allegiance of a Jew to the UK as our Ambassador to Israel. He thought he'd *go native*
I think it's pretty clear what he thinks. He's now also front and centre over denying anti-Semitism.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
Oh come on, you can get that chariot extracted from the inaccessible place it was put on the NHS, surely?
We can, I've noticed you stopped calling us 'Nigels'
I quite like the cut of Margaret Hodge's gib, but she does seem to have a bit of baggage, and I just can't see her beating Corbyn, or the 'Corbyn continuity' candidate.
Nor can I really see any of the other prominent moderates doing so.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
As a Welsh rugby player who has toured Ireland and Northern Ireland seven times, I can attest that the Welsh hatred of the England team pales into insignificance compared to over there.
I watched England play Scotland in the 6N in Belfast and wow, if an Englishman had walked in that bar they'd have eaten him alive. Scary.
I've been an England fan wearing an England jersey in Edinburgh on the day of a Calcutta Cup Match.
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
It's the Left's insufferable belief in its own moral superiority ....... even as it crawls round in the gutter.
Did you miss Michael Howard's 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?
Nope, didn't miss Labour's Shylock posters either...
But I'll bet they've *not* paid out a lot more on Chelsea, Man C, Man U and so on.
Leicester winning the league is a very bad result on the market for nearly all bookmakers. If it were just the pre-season bets, then the old wisdom about outsiders being good for bookies would hold true. But people were backing them all season at fancy prices.
True. Someone - modesty prevents me naming him - did tip them at 20/1 at Xmas, which was ludicrously long. That said, surely they'll have taken more than £4.6m on the rest?
Not a chance. Antepost doesn't generally attract big money; people like to win asap.
The betting wasn't all antepost, the £4.6m wasn't just £1 punters at fancy prices.
I'm amazed that on a betting site people lack even a basic understanding of punting.
"antepost" sounds like it should mean "BeforeAfter"
All Greek to me (or Latin?) - which is why i never bet...
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
I think you could probably say the same for the crowds at any major international sporting fixture.
I hadn't appreciated quite how ancient Flynn is - 81 years of age.
He is a dinosaur in so many ways. It is time for Parliament (both houses) to have a sensible upper age limit for members. There is a case for experience - but that also has to be tempered with the needs of our representatives to active both mentally and physically. His recent comments show that his judgement is certainly flawed.
Morning all. I've been very busy these last few days with the Mayfield Festival. I'll post a link to a video of my debut as a rap artist later.
I see @blackburn53 is as unpleasant as ever, and not much else seems to have changed.
It looks as though Ireland is indeed going to end up with an FG minority government but probably with independents in the Cabinet. If so, I'm not sure how the bookies will settle that.
I've had great fun with the Eminem rap lyrics generator:
The Foaming Mouth Hip Hop
In The Style Of Eminem by Richard Nabavi
May I have your attention please? I'm not afraid (I'm not afraid) To defy the polls (to defy the polls) Everybody (everybody) Come take my finger (come take my finger) We'll walk through Home Counties together, through the storm Whatever weather, cold or warm
His hands are frothing, mouth foaming, feet are rough There's food on his chinos already, pb'ers's pizza He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready to defy the polls, But he keeps on forgetting what he wrote down,
And I am, cool If I wasn't, then why would I say I am? In the paper, the news everyday I am Radio won't even play my jam 'Cause I am, cool If I wasn't, then why would I say I am? In the paper, the news everyday I am I don't know it's just the way I am
You better listen to Obama You own it, you better never let it go You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to defy the polls This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo You better listen to Obama You own it, you better never let it go You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to defy the polls This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo
So lets go back Follow the David Cameron as we go on another episode Journey with me as I take you through Home Counties I once used to call home sweet home
Well, gotta go, I'm almost at the EU now
And when I'm gone, just defy the polls, don't mourn Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my frothing hands Just know that I'm looking down on you canvassing And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain Just listen to Obama
And when he's gone, just defy the polls, don't mourn Rejoice every time you hear the sound of his foaming mouth Just know that he's looking down on you leafleting And his didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain Just listen to Obama in your chinos.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
Clumsy or not I believe the Welsh aren't anti-semitic. The majority of the electorate will be looking at all of this very puzzled.
Morning all. I've been very busy these last few days with the Mayfield Festival. I'll post a link to a video of my debut as a rap artist later.
I see @blackburn53 is as unpleasant as ever, and not much else seems to have changed.
It looks as though Ireland is indeed going to end up with an FG minority government but probably with independents in the Cabinet. If so, I'm not sure how the bookies will settle that.
I haven't felt so uncomfortable about British politics since 1984 when Thatcher was running riot and some very unpleasant people were riding on her coat tails. The Bennite/Foot Labour Party was equally unattractive and similarly infiltrated by people with an agenda that was both alien and unpleasant.
One of the sayings I find most often comes true is that 'the dawn follows the darkest night'. In this case though it's in reverse. For the first time for years we had a reasonably benign Tory Party and a Labour Party in transition. Completely unelectable but at least they were being forced to rebuild......
And then in a couple of weeks the Tories self immolated and Labour at their weakest have had the scaffolding pulled from under them by some dark forces as yet unknown..........
Dear God Roger, listen to yourself.
It is self inflicted, it is not a fecking Tory or Mossad plot.
I've never suggested or thought it was a Tory or Mossad plot! It that sense it isn't a plot at all. It's a nasty blogger who has the support of many people who share his aims. It happened to a lesser extent with UKIP when every day another councillor was outed. It never really gained legs because no one expected better from UKIPers. The problem with these witch hunts is how indiscriminate they are. They attract all sorts of self seekers and it's impossible to guess where it'll end.
Labour has to suck it up. The members voted for and continues to give strong support to a leadership that has happily indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for 30 year and more; and the furore has been caused by how that leadership has responded to the anti-Semitism that has been exposed inside the party. Of course Guido, the Mail etc wish Labour ill, but if the problem did not exist they would not have the stories to run.
Read the Paul Flynn expose today. Is this a deserved punisment because loads of people paid £3 and chose a clown?
They voted for a clown who has indulged and stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for decades, and who made someone who questions Israel's right to exist his right hand man. Labour is reapong what it's members have sown. And, yes, there may be a few innocent casualties along the way. If Labour had dealt with this itself that may not have been the case.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
As a Welsh rugby player who has toured Ireland and Northern Ireland seven times, I can attest that the Welsh hatred of the England team pales into insignificance compared to over there.
I watched England play Scotland in the 6N in Belfast and wow, if an Englishman had walked in that bar they'd have eaten him alive. Scary.
I've been an England fan wearing an England jersey in Edinburgh on the day of a Calcutta Cup Match.
Was fine.
Ditto in Dublin too
It's just a rugby thing though.. I'm a valleyboy and I genuinely think there is virtually zero racism towards English people here. I know lots of kids who openly support England in the World Cup and Euros in football (this year will be different, as Wales have qualified.. first time since 1958!).
My mate Holty is from Kent and married my wife's friend. He's a proper Kent boy. When Wales won 30-3 in 2013 against England we made him have the three feathers tattooed on his arse
I quite like the cut of Margaret Hodge's gib, but she does seem to have a bit of baggage, and I just can't see her beating Corbyn, or the 'Corbyn continuity' candidate.
Nor can I really see any of the other prominent moderates doing so.
As chair of the Public Accounts Select Committee Margaret Hodge was constantly grandstanding because of her own ignorance and lack of forensic capabability.
As a result she generated more heat than light about public spending.
Londoners think Boris Johnson has been a hit as Mayor of London — but just a third think he should go on to become prime minister, according to an exclusive poll.
The mixed news for Boris fans comes from an Opinium survey for the Evening Standard to mark his final week in charge of City Hall.
Asked whether he had been successful in his eight years as mayor, the London public divided more than two-to-one in favour. A clear majority of 54 per cent felt he had done well, while just 20 per cent felt he had done badly.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
Nah, you need to watch England play football in a pub in Scotland. I've done both, the Welsh are very nice.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
As any Englishman who has ever attended an England/Wales rugby match can attest, the Welsh are the most racist bigoted nation in the UK.
As a Welsh rugby player who has toured Ireland and Northern Ireland seven times, I can attest that the Welsh hatred of the England team pales into insignificance compared to over there.
I watched England play Scotland in the 6N in Belfast and wow, if an Englishman had walked in that bar they'd have eaten him alive. Scary.
I've been an England fan wearing an England jersey in Edinburgh on the day of a Calcutta Cup Match.
Was fine.
Ditto in Dublin too
Before the late 1980s the England Wales game was as much about class as nationality. Rugby in England was resolutely middle class at that time, whereas it was and remains the people's game in Wales.
The advent of professionalism and commercialisation has changed the game somewhat. When Wales put England out of the world cup I was struck by how little of the old gobby gloating there was on our side.
Are they saying he's anti semitic too? As I just said to Floater this quickly gets out of hand! Read what he's accused of doing. I'd decided to stop posting on this subject-I don't even like Corbyn's Labour Party-but I felt they were being treated unfairly.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
I've never been in the Labour Party but I am aware of an undercurrent of antisemitism even if it has been brought to my attention recently. If Mr Flynn really hasn't seen any in 30 years then he has been looking the other way.
I'll make a clumsy attempt at defending him. I think he's in N Wales, I doubt anti semitism is ever mentioned there in any context, it just won't exist amongst ordinary Welsh people.
So the Welsh can't be antisemitic? Really?
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
Clumsy or not I believe the Welsh aren't anti-semitic. The majority of the electorate will be looking at all of this very puzzled.
Comments
It'll be talk about augmenting capabilities, co-operation and so forth. But there'll still be the drift towards centralisation as sovereignty ebbs away.
That being said if Trump sweeps CA, he will have "clinched" the nomination on every reasonable metric.
Labour candidate: ‘You can get away with offending anyone so long as they’re not Jewish’ https://t.co/ez6VkPb9WQ https://t.co/2WqdySwp1t
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/05/what-look-out-2016-local-and-devolved-elections
then lick it off.
LOL!! Congrats to Leicester. To Jeremy? Not so much....
Well rid.
Labour's poster "elections are about taking sides" is wrong in a very revealing way. Most people plump for least worst option on ballot
It takes a v insular, tribal view of politics to presume that people will rally to the party that says: "Be with us or you're one of them
.....Which Is a very deep-rooted arrogance in Labour about its entitlement to be the good guys
..
I don't think most of the country will be as indifferent as you seem to be.
I understand your reaction. But "For evil to flourish it is enough that good men do nothing." So I am going to do something, little as that is.
Enjoy your day with your family.
I'm amazed that on a betting site people lack even a basic understanding of punting.
I'm just pointing out we already do what some Eurosceptics fear we might do, just under the umbrella of NATO.
Skybet paid out £4.6m, anyone know how much they took - or were all their bets Leicester fans in August at fancy prices?
But, given that we have NATO, what is an EU army going to do except duplicate the number of brass hats, while doing nothing to enhance capability?
I'm waiting for certain lefties on here to have a "Are we the bad guys?" moment.
I may be waiting some time.
It Is All The Fault Of Someone Else.
Then I read Guido's latest on Paul Flynn.......
.....I don't know him or anything about him. But he wrote to a Jewish constituent saying he's been in the Party for 30 years and he had never seen any anti semitism (why would he?) He sounded crushed. The constituent unkindly sent the letter to Guido who returned the favour by doing a character assasination on Flynn.
That's where this thing has led and why people have to speak up.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/labour-is-sneering-at-the-wrong-kind-of-voter-t7jbsb6kp
Unless there is the will among the public and politicians to build that state, then it would be counterproductive to try to build central features of it piecemeal and without the other necessary supports they'd need. There isn't that will.
The difference is that NATO is a military alliance of independent sovereign states. The EU army is intended to be a tool of a new federal state.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/feb/01/advertising.politicsandthemedia
"Labour's election strategist, Alan Milburn, was today forced to defend the party's controversial proposed advertising, as the Tories dubbed it a "campaign of sly anti-semitism".
The Conservative frontbench spokesman, Julian Lewis, described one poster of Michael Howard swinging a stopwatch as an "outrageous Fagin smear".
He made the remarks just hours after the Labour party removed the images, which were proposed as the centrepiece of a new poster campaign, from its website."
Aside from the UK and France (both of whom can do very little without US logistical support anyway) the military strength of the EU's member states is rather puny.
A self-defence force, a few eurofighters, a coastal greywater navy and a couple of frigates seems to be the standard fare.
Money has never been cheaper
(That's the "saver" rate, but the rate to borrow at will be correlated obviously)
Do you really need reminding, Roger, that people have been killed for saying something about Muslims or Islam that some Muslim somewhere didn't like?
So what he says is factually inaccurate.
Finally, he implies that there is some great Jewish lobby behind all the complaints orchestrating this. That - if not anti-Semitic in itself - is perilously close to some well-worn anti-Semitic tropes.
The people now arguing most strongly for the right to offend Jews are those who have shouted the loudest about not offending other groups. Well, if offence is to be the measure then all groups are entitled to take offence, Jews included. Or we could be a bit more grown up and accept that we are entitled to say things that others don't like and that this applies to all, including Muslims - usually the quickest to play the "I'm offended" card.
It's the double standards which grate.
Identity politics is becoming increasingly worrying, I'm not sure any party is guilt free.
I didn't miss either Labour's attempts to make something of Howard's and Letwin's Jewishness in a pretty unpleasant dog-whistle campaign - quite some years ago. For that party to attack Goldsmith now is rich, given its own sordid history of dog whistling. See, for instance, Livingstone the last time he stood for Mayor.
@georgegalloway @Atomik_Research
We're getting a masterclass in that from Labour at the moment.
Was it only as recently as 2004 that SCon candidate Adam WATP Tomkins was appearing on stage with Tommy Sheridan signing a declaration of independence for a Scottish republic and calling for the dissolution of the monarchy?
What a 'journey' that lad's been on.
But as you say with a leadership, and associate leadership, which has been steeped in anti-imperialist rhetoric for the past 50 years, and which equates Israel with the Great Satan, and therefore the very definition of imperialist oppressor....well, to quote Mao, ironically enough wholly inappropriately in this instance...let a hundred flowers bloom...
That is a pretty clumsy attempt at defending him!
I had not really registered, and am feeling left out - no elections where i live! (Well there's a Police and Crime Commissioner one but that doesn't count...)
All parties seem to be crap at the moment so may well not have voted anyway... slippery shyster Cameron, ageing Trot Corbyn, non-entity Farron or Little Englander Farage...none of their respective mobs holds any great appeal currently.
Purge the moderates.
I see @blackburn53 is as unpleasant as ever, and not much else seems to have changed.
It looks as though Ireland is indeed going to end up with an FG minority government but probably with independents in the Cabinet. If so, I'm not sure how the bookies will settle that.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/independents-warn-fine-gael-they-will-not-rush-deal-34679684.html
(I must say though I did like your post. It was much more thoughtful than many of the lurid ones that this subject seems to attract)
How do you suppose they might get that? Universal military service, perhaps?
I watched England play Scotland in the 6N in Belfast and wow, if an Englishman had walked in that bar they'd have eaten him alive. Scary.
I think it's pretty clear what he thinks. He's now also front and centre over denying anti-Semitism.
Nor can I really see any of the other prominent moderates doing so.
Was fine.
Ditto in Dublin too
Primary school parents protesting today about their children being taught correct grammar.
All Greek to me (or Latin?) - which is why i never bet...
#getscoat
I hadn't appreciated quite how ancient Flynn is - 81 years of age.
He is a dinosaur in so many ways. It is time for Parliament (both houses) to have a sensible upper age limit for members. There is a case for experience - but that also has to be tempered with the needs of our representatives to active both mentally and physically. His recent comments show that his judgement is certainly flawed.
The Foaming Mouth Hip Hop
In The Style Of Eminem
by Richard Nabavi
May I have your attention please?
I'm not afraid (I'm not afraid)
To defy the polls (to defy the polls)
Everybody (everybody)
Come take my finger (come take my finger)
We'll walk through Home Counties together, through the storm
Whatever weather, cold or warm
His hands are frothing, mouth foaming, feet are rough
There's food on his chinos already, pb'ers's pizza
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready to defy the polls,
But he keeps on forgetting what he wrote down,
And I am, cool
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the paper, the news everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam
'Cause I am, cool
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the paper, the news everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am
You better listen to Obama
You own it, you better never let it go
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to defy the polls
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo
You better listen to Obama
You own it, you better never let it go
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to defy the polls
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo
So lets go back
Follow the David Cameron as we go on another episode
Journey with me as I take you through Home Counties
I once used to call home sweet home
Well, gotta go, I'm almost at the EU now
And when I'm gone, just defy the polls, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my frothing hands
Just know that I'm looking down on you canvassing
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just listen to Obama
And when he's gone, just defy the polls, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of his foaming mouth
Just know that he's looking down on you leafleting
And his didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just listen to Obama in your chinos.
My mate Holty is from Kent and married my wife's friend. He's a proper Kent boy. When Wales won 30-3 in 2013 against England we made him have the three feathers tattooed on his arse
As a result she generated more heat than light about public spending.
Londoners think Boris Johnson has been a hit as Mayor of London — but just a third think he should go on to become prime minister, according to an exclusive poll.
The mixed news for Boris fans comes from an Opinium survey for the Evening Standard to mark his final week in charge of City Hall.
Asked whether he had been successful in his eight years as mayor, the London public divided more than two-to-one in favour. A clear majority of 54 per cent felt he had done well, while just 20 per cent felt he had done badly.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-shouldn-t-be-prime-minister-say-53-in-poll-a3238676.html
The advent of professionalism and commercialisation has changed the game somewhat. When Wales put England out of the world cup I was struck by how little of the old gobby gloating there was on our side.
http://www.jta.org/1934/08/26/archive/city-in-wales-hit-by-anti-semitism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14582378
There is a long history of antisemitism in Wales. A long one