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JackW said:

Pennsylvania - Monmouth Uni

Clinton 52 .. Sanders 39

http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/143fe2e7-7497-44ed-8aef-c93505a1fa96.pdf

Clinton is now above 500 supers too. Still "technically" behind the winning line till the last day (At which point if all goes to plan it is a 1-10000 shoo in)

Is Mr Meeks right that personal attacks is the wrong way for LEAVE to go even though Vote Leave does not have this as a core tactic?

Making this a core aim and tactic, would make sense if the REMAIN Campaign is relying on the trust and image of Cameron to win. Which since they are, so far, it invites the attacks.

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

runnymede said:

Lord King 'economic threat of Brexit is being exaggerated'

'I'm old enough to remember the referendum in Britain in 1975 on exactly the same issue. The one thing that both sides of the argument then were wrong about was that it would make a dramatic difference. It didn't.'

Correct.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/20/economic-threat-of-brexit-is-being-exaggerated-says-former-bank/

A genuinely sensible contribution from the former Governer of the BoE, who isn't in George Osborne's pocket.

Funny the Remainers are quiet about it.

No point listening to Lord King. He was wrong when he was part of the 364 economists who slagged off Thatcher and Howe, and he's wrong now.

Lord King helped keep us out the Euro. At best it tells you economists can't forecast shit.

And Tebbit/Thatcher/Lawson/Owen were all europhiles back then.

How is the weather in Moscow this evening?

Well the 364 economists story is certainly a nice example of how establishment opinion can get things utterly, and almost unanimously, wrong. As it also did on the issue of the ERM, and returning to the Gold Standard after WWI.

Another, more controversial, example is the obsession with a fixed (and overvalued) sterling exchange rate from the 1940s-early 1970s. Suggesting a floating rate was considered tantamount to heresy at the time yet it would definitely have been the right choice.

To be fair to quite a few of the 364 signatories though, they would now accept they made a mistake - and it was an honest mistake.

That can't be said of the propagandists who forecast doom if we left the ERM, doom if we didn't join the euro and are now forecasting doom in the event of LEAVE.

King saying 'bovvered' on the economy is, in my view, a little troubling for Remain.

If they don;t have the economy, then its more difficult, surely.

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

Don't panic Richard, we all let our guards down and allow the truth to slip out de temps en temps. You have acknowledged that all the stuff and nonsense you have been banging on about is your "personal view". I, personally, welcome that admission.

Sorry Topping but these strange misquotes really don't fool anyone. All they show is that your actual grasp of the subject matter is so flaky and shallow that you have to rely upon deflection rather than dealing with the issues. Of course the problem is that you write opinion as fact whereas I make a point of distinguishing between the two.

So please do continue with your asides. At least they save us from your fantasy ideas about how the EEA or EFTA work which bear no resemblance to reality at all.

stop digging, Richard.

Just highlighting your modus operandi and the facile nature of your arguments. Now since Vote Leave appears to have opted against the EEA route it is probably moot but if you want we can reopen your strange views on how EFTA works and I can show everyone how ignorant you are yet again.

I'm sure everyone is grateful for your incisive and conclusive views.

Which are, after all, only your "personal view".

Sometimes I give a personal view. At other times I provide facts. The point being that I differentiate between the two. You simply spout ill informed rubbish and pretend it is factual. All it reveals is your own ignorance.

Let it go, Richard, you know you do come over as a bit of a dick at times (for example, now).

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. 1983, could you give us a quick summary of the Kurile Islands situation?

In my opinion it's a simple case of victor's justice. Japan claims the southernmost two islands, in accordance with an 1855 treaty (I had to look this up), Russia had the rest, but Russia grabbed them in the war and have simply deported all the Japanese back to mainland Japan. The Russians have no legal claim that I can see. They have offered to give back the closest two Islands to Japan, which is about 7% of what the Japanese claim. Land-grabbing in this fashion when you're the biggest country in the world seems pointless.

Fishing or oil rights? Usually why people want pointless little islands. See Rockall.

Yes, but Russia is one of the most natural resource rich countries on earth. If anything I feel their interests would be better served by trying to build bridges with Japan over it. Won't happen now of course. There is what I imagine to be a settled population, Russia are best mates with China and Japan are very much under US control.

Incidentally, on natural resources, one of the positives of being sanctioned is that the Russian economy is being forced to diversify, and therefore looks likely to return to growth fairly soon.

Looks more likely to collapse to me. The OPEC meeting was a yawn for the west but very bad news for the biggest oil producer in the world. If oil stays near its current prices and Russian output starts to drop off the position will be unsustainable.

There's undoubtedly propaganda on both sides. There was a 3.7 GDP contraction in 2015, and they are predicting a 0.3 contraction in 2016. If true, it would appear to indicate a return to growth in 2017. Of course sanctions wound, but markets adjust, people adjust, and if something is artificially undervalued, it will find its real value one way or another. This is as true and pertinent to the Brexit argument as it is to anything else.

Even using the Russian official figures it is worse than that: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth

Of course if oil starts to rise again things can change around quickly but I should warn you that AEP has forecast exactly that.

You're not warning me; I care no more for Russia than I do for any foreign country, which is to say I respect them if they respect us. I'm Palmerstonian.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

runnymede said:

Lord King 'economic threat of Brexit is being exaggerated'

'I'm old enough to remember the referendum in Britain in 1975 on exactly the same issue. The one thing that both sides of the argument then were wrong about was that it would make a dramatic difference. It didn't.'

Correct.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/20/economic-threat-of-brexit-is-being-exaggerated-says-former-bank/

A genuinely sensible contribution from the former Governer of the BoE, who isn't in George Osborne's pocket.

Funny the Remainers are quiet about it.

No point listening to Lord King. He was wrong when he was part of the 364 economists who slagged off Thatcher and Howe, and he's wrong now.

Lord King helped keep us out the Euro. At best it tells you economists can't forecast shit.

And Tebbit/Thatcher/Lawson/Owen were all europhiles back then.

How is the weather in Moscow this evening?

I thought according to Leave, making a crap economist forecast, or supporting a bad economic policy disqualified you from commenting upon the impacts of Brexit.

As for the weather in Moscow, you'd have to ask that noted supporter of Brexit, Vladimir Putin.

Me, I'm off for the evening, to psych myself up to watch the Merseyside derby on the telly

Argh. Too predictable.

I was hoping for better from you than that.

At the very least it should tell you to take your own firm's forecast with a big pinch of salt, and all the others too.

runnymede said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

runnymede said:

Lord King 'economic threat of Brexit is being exaggerated'

'I'm old enough to remember the referendum in Britain in 1975 on exactly the same issue. The one thing that both sides of the argument then were wrong about was that it would make a dramatic difference. It didn't.'

Correct.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/20/economic-threat-of-brexit-is-being-exaggerated-says-former-bank/

A genuinely sensible contribution from the former Governer of the BoE, who isn't in George Osborne's pocket.

Funny the Remainers are quiet about it.

No point listening to Lord King. He was wrong when he was part of the 364 economists who slagged off Thatcher and Howe, and he's wrong now.

Lord King helped keep us out the Euro. At best it tells you economists can't forecast shit.

And Tebbit/Thatcher/Lawson/Owen were all europhiles back then.

How is the weather in Moscow this evening?

Well the 364 economists story is certainly a nice example of how establishment opinion can get things utterly, and almost unanimously, wrong. As it also did on the issue of the ERM, and returning to the Gold Standard after WWI.

Another, more controversial, example is the obsession with a fixed (and overvalued) sterling exchange rate from the 1940s-early 1970s. Suggesting a floating rate was considered tantamount to heresy at the time yet it would definitely have been the right choice.

To be fair to quite a few of the 364 signatories though, they would now accept they made a mistake - and it was an honest mistake.

That can't be said of the propagandists who forecast doom if we left the ERM, doom if we didn't join the euro and are now forecasting doom in the event of LEAVE.

Yes, from the likes of the FT/Lord Kinnock/CBI/TUC/Paddy Ashdown/Ken Clarke..

We've heard it all before.

O/T:

"Theodore Dalrymple; Women are more vulnerable than men; which is why men commit suicide three times more often?"

http://salisburyreview.com/2016/04/women-vulnerable-men-men-commit-suicide-three-times-often/

Surely the answer to naming the research vessel Boaty McBoatface is for Prince Charles to change his name by deed poll. King Boaty would show he truly has a popular touch....

MikeL said:

Prof Curtice polling average moves to 53/47 (widest lead since 28 March):

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/

I'm sure if you put it through 'Chestnut' you'll find the silver lining

MM (and OT) 'Eye in the Sky' really worth seeing.

SandyRentool said:

Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.

We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.

A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.

A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....

Well a good start for the Welsh Elections - postal ballot papers in three counties Ceredigion , Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire have to be re printed and sent out AGAIN after an error was spotted - love the way they blame the printers but am sure they are working with what they were given

http://www.pembrokeshire-herald.com/24171/new-ballot-papers-being-issued-to-postal-voters-after-printing-error/#comment-67891

MikeL said:

Prof Curtice polling average moves to 53/47 (widest lead since 28 March):

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/

ICM phone poll IMHO overstates the REMAIN lead and it may even have be level pegging - just like its online poll. ICM to be fair state that "Given that Labour voters split in the general ratio of 2:1 in favour of Remain, the view here is that the phone poll slightly overstate its share."

Looking at the weighting which produces 23% more 18-34 voters than the 65+. Chestnut in an earlier post referred me to Ipsos mori finding from the GE that it was just 17% higher. The effect of this would bring down the gap for phone survey by a few % and with MOE we are looking at level pegging.

The other factor is that ICM are taking the rating on certainty to vote from the respondent, not from likely behaviour. Also is a weightings by GE a good tool or should they be using weightings by local elections when the 65+ turnout in even greater % compared to the younger voters (commitment and postal vote effects)? This needs further thought.

matt said:

Roger said:

MikeL said:

Prof Curtice polling average moves to 53/47 (widest lead since 28 March):

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/

I'm sure if you put it through 'Chestnut' you'll find the silver lining

There's an awful lot of "I don't trust the polls" and anecdote trumping objectivity about.

True but its real money as well. Do the betting markets, where cold hard cash is being wagered in big size, correspond to the headline figures for the polls? I think the answer is pretty much no.

Oh, and thank you to Alistair Meeks for an interesting analysis. I don't agree with all of it but you get what you pay for.

I guess where I differ is the view that this is a considered approach. I don't think it is, I think it's one born out of emotionalism rather Than rationalism. Nothing wrong with with but I suspect that AMs empathy with the emotional approach is limited. That mismatch is brought to life here by be poster dithering over whether to attend a work/stay event and concern about tongue biting.

MarqueeMark said:

Roger said:

MM (and OT) 'Eye in the Sky' really worth seeing.

It's on the list and I'm delighted that my doubts were misplaced about Helen Mirren (now in her seventies) being convincing as some top military bod...

I haven't seen but someone I know laughed their way through it....

Casino_Royale said:

MarqueeMark said:

SandyRentool said:

Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.

We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.

A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.

A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....

I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.

I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.

For what it's worth I think you've got a reasonably coherent message now you just have the wrong people delivering it. The best advocate I've yet heard for Leave was David Owen.

marke09 said:

Well a good start for the Welsh Elections - postal ballot papers in three counties Ceredigion , Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire have to be re printed and sent out AGAIN after an error was spotted - love the way they blame the printers but am sure they are working with what they were given

http://www.pembrokeshire-herald.com/24171/new-ballot-papers-being-issued-to-postal-voters-after-printing-error/#comment-67891

The person placing the order will be asked to sign off on the artwork before the printing starts.

Damned with the truth? George sets himself up as the fountain of truth on the EU and Hannan gives us an insight into his real beliefs.

Dan Hannan
"In the 25 years I’ve known him, George Osborne has always supported deeper integration with the EU. For many of those years, George wanted Britain to join the euro. Nothing wrong with that. Though we obviously disagree, I admire his consistency."
http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/daniel-hannan-in-an-uncertain-world-britain-would-be-safer-running-its-own-affairs-a3228706.html

ITV News on PMQs not dominated by Corbyn's triumph but instead the racist accusations from Labour at PMQs at Cameron.

So is this where the Labour REMAIN campaign supporters attack the REMAIN campaign front man Mr Meeks? Always the danger of REMAIN relying on Cameron to front things....

TCPoliticalBetting said:

ITV News on PMQs not dominated by Corbyn's triumph but instead the racist accusations from Labour at PMQs at Cameron.

So is this where the Labour REMAIN campaign supporters attack the REMAIN campaign front man Mr Meeks? Always the danger of REMAIN relying on Cameron to front things....

It feels like it here, but I don't think that normal adversial politics has been wholly subordinated to a referendum debate.

matt said:

Casino_Royale said:

matt said:

Oh, and thank you to Alistair Meeks for an interesting analysis. I don't agree with all of it but you get what you pay for.

I guess where I differ is the view that this is a considered approach. I don't think it is, I think it's one born out of emotionalism rather Than rationalism. Nothing wrong with with but I suspect that AMs empathy with the emotional approach is limited. That mismatch is brought to life here by be poster dithering over whether to attend a work/stay event and concern about tongue biting.

Are you talking about me?

I wrote a long reply which iOS ate and which I cba to retype but in summary:

A. In most circumstances I suspect you would say that you are a rational individual but specific emotion could trump this;

B. Lawyers, outside the tediously crusading type*, should be avowedly rational. One leaves the emotion to clients; and

C. Your line is generally seen as the starter to a Glasgow kiss...


* and there has never been a crusading pensions lawyer.

So I shouldn't go to the lunch because they might get emotional/violent and I might get emotional?

Is that it?

matt said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

ITV News on PMQs not dominated by Corbyn's triumph but instead the racist accusations from Labour at PMQs at Cameron.

So is this where the Labour REMAIN campaign supporters attack the REMAIN campaign front man Mr Meeks? Always the danger of REMAIN relying on Cameron to front things....

It feels like it here, but I don't think that normal adversial politics has been wholly subordinated to a referendum debate.

In 1975 were normal adversarial politics suspened for the referendum? Just another few notches in Cameron caused by a failure to understand calendars. Did he forget about the May elections?

watford30 said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

ITV News on PMQs not dominated by Corbyn's triumph but instead the racist accusations from Labour at PMQs at Cameron.

So is this where the Labour REMAIN campaign supporters attack the REMAIN campaign front man Mr Meeks? Always the danger of REMAIN relying on Cameron to front things....

Cameron was wrong, nay misguided to ever get so deeply involved in Remain. Had he stood aside as a neutral observer, he'd be in a position to reunite the Tories after the vote, and continue to take on Labour without the risk outlined above.
Now, he has a divided party, and will be shunned as a social pariah by half it's supporters, whilst giving ammunition to the Opposition. Foolish man.

Some old codger made that point in a comparison with Harold Wilson. Alas my memory forgets the details............

So Monday night in Betfairs Referendum winners Market a big chunk takes the price from 1.5 to 1.59 in one go. The following day over £150k was waiting to be matched on backing leave (between 2.72 and 2.8) of which most has disappeared. I think we can now rule out someone front running a poll. Two Polls today show a slight movement to Remain, if anything the Price should be at least 1.5/3. I've just back Remain heavily with a view to trade. anyone that was willing to back at 1.5 before the Monday should be willing to back now, more so.

Call yourself gamblers?

Michael Crick leads C4 News with more detail on the Conservative election expenses questions. If there is anything deadly, it begs the question why Feldman the Chairman did not go quietly weeks ago.

Did not clear the decks ahead of the referendum and local elections! Illustrates the absence of Crosby who insisted on a clear out of problems well before the GE.

Delaware - Gravis Marketing

Trump 55 .. Kasich 18 .. Cruz 15
Clinton 45 .. Sanders 38

http://gravismarketing.com/polling-and-market-research/delaware-polling/

EPG said:

MarqueeMark said:

SandyRentool said:

Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.

We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.

A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.

A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....

The main figure in LEAVE is Nigel Farage
REMAIN will never be as repulsive to the remaining Labour supporters

Is this supported by the like/dislike polling on the party leaders?

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Damned with the truth? George sets himself up as the fountain of truth on the EU and Hannan gives us an insight into his real beliefs.

Dan Hannan
"In the 25 years I’ve known him, George Osborne has always supported deeper integration with the EU. For many of those years, George wanted Britain to join the euro. Nothing wrong with that. Though we obviously disagree, I admire his consistency."
http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/daniel-hannan-in-an-uncertain-world-britain-would-be-safer-running-its-own-affairs-a3228706.html

I think Osborne's europhilia was never really in any doubt. Just look at the company he keeps.

On C4 News "Lib Dem candidates considering action" against the Conservatives over election spending.

Of course Lib Dems used to be amongst the worst at doing this for by elections.

richardDodd said:

AndyJS..Where does racism come into it..Cameron stated proven facts..Labour tried to drown it it out with Racism claims..

Racism and Labour are bedfellows - I'm just trying to find a third....... Islamophobia perhaps?

Casino_Royale said:

Simon Kelner says Cameron should reject the EU referendum if we vote the wrong way:

"I know they had to offer a referendum for narrow tactical reasons, and now they are faced with the real prospect of the people of Britain going against them. In my view, a vote to leave would make us pretty much a laughing stock in serious circles. In that case, I think David Cameron should follow Nerc’s example and steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people."

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/britain-says-leave-cameron-reject-vote/

Typical Europhile... don't like the result of a referendum? Ignore it.

AlastairMeeks said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.

I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?

I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).

Back (Bet For)
Odds
Stake
Profit

60.01 - 65.0 Percent 8.6 £11.00 £83.60

TCPoliticalBetting said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.

I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?

I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).

What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.

FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.

I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.

Why? Three reasons:

1) As more focus is put on the referendum campaign in the media, the public will be engaged more, which in turn will drive up likely turnout. I'm expecting turnout to be relatively high and have bet accordingly. Since the less engaged voters at present are disproportionately inclined to Remain, that should help Remain.

2) Leave are losing on their messaging on the economy. This is going to be decisive for many voters.

3) Leave's prospectus for future negotiations lacks plausibility. It will be hard to persuade the public that the rest of the EU really will give Britain everything it wants cost free. Many voters will be unnerved by this uncertainty.

Casino_Royale said:

Simon Kelner says Cameron should reject the EU referendum if we vote the wrong way:

"I know they had to offer a referendum for narrow tactical reasons, and now they are faced with the real prospect of the people of Britain going against them. In my view, a vote to leave would make us pretty much a laughing stock in serious circles. In that case, I think David Cameron should follow Nerc’s example and steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people."

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/britain-says-leave-cameron-reject-vote/

Yep that's the authentic voice of the Europhile.

Casino_Royale said:

Simon Kelner says Cameron should reject the EU referendum if we vote the wrong way:

"I know they had to offer a referendum for narrow tactical reasons, and now they are faced with the real prospect of the people of Britain going against them. In my view, a vote to leave would make us pretty much a laughing stock in serious circles. In that case, I think David Cameron should follow Nerc’s example and steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people."

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/britain-says-leave-cameron-reject-vote/

What an arrogant man. Editor of the Independent from 1998 to 2008.

AlastairMeeks said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.

I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?

I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).

What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.

FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.

I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.
Why? Three reasons:............

Have you considered that you need to look through the eyes of each key group in making such an assessment? For example, the working class that I know are closer to 50/50 and their turnout will be very low. These are all people who would not vote C or U.

bigjohnowls said:

SandyRentool said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarqueeMark said:

SandyRentool said:

Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.

We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.

A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.

A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....

I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.

I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.

Your wish is my command...

The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.

As I said yesterday more leave votes than remain in my branch meeting.

I was a lone voice in Bishop.

surbiton said:

weejonnie said:

richardDodd said:

AndyJS..Where does racism come into it..Cameron stated proven facts..Labour tried to drown it it out with Racism claims..

Racism and Labour are bedfellows - I'm just trying to find a third....... Islamophobia perhaps?

Ghani has rejected Cameron's cowardly attack point-blank. [ Namesake of Nusrat Ghani, the Tory MP. No relation as far as I am aware. ]

"Within minutes, Gani himself also rejected the claims, arguing he has always condemned IS. He challenged Cameron to repeat his comments outside the chamber so he could sue for defamation.

Labour sources have pointed out that Gani has also shared a stage with Jane Ellison, the Conservative health minister and met Tory MP Tania Mathias."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/20/mps-shout-racist-at-cameron-after-comments-on-sadiq-khan-in-pmqs

Would Mr Ghani really like to have his support for a boycott of Ahmadi shops aired in open court? Or his support for convicted terrorists?

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

SandyRentool said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarqueeMark said:

SandyRentool said:

Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.

We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.

A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.

A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....

I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.

I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.

Your wish is my command...

The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.

As I said yesterday more leave votes than remain in my branch meeting.

I was a lone voice in Bishop.

I am a lone voice in my house of 4 Lab voters.

runnymede said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

runnymede said:

Casino_Royale said:

Simon Kelner says Cameron should reject the EU referendum if we vote the wrong way:

"I know they had to offer a referendum for narrow tactical reasons, and now they are faced with the real prospect of the people of Britain going against them. In my view, a vote to leave would make us pretty much a laughing stock in serious circles. In that case, I think David Cameron should follow Nerc’s example and steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people."

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/britain-says-leave-cameron-reject-vote/

Yep that's the authentic voice of the Europhile.

Just idiotic and it is not going to happen

These are the people you are supporting. Think on it.

With respect the vast majority of remain supporters would support my comments. Besides David Cameron will very soon after the 23rd June on a leave vote enact section 50 and anything less would be totally unacceptable

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/04/seven-times-cameron-and-osborne-suggested-they-might-vote-leave.html

And yet, that hasn’t always been their view. Before and during the renegotiation with the EU, they were happy to regularly suggest that if Brussels failed to meet their demands, then they “ruled nothing out”, ie they might be willing to support a Leave vote. Doing so wasn’t a one-off slip of the tongue, it was a deliberate message, communicated for over a year on television, in print and in front of Select Committees. Here are seven examples...

TCPoliticalBetting said:

On C4 News "Lib Dem candidates considering action" against the Conservatives over election spending.

Of course Lib Dems used to be amongst the worst at doing this for by elections.

Do you have anything to back that assertion up?
I googled "challenged for overspending at elections" and it seems it's allegations of Tories overspending to beat UKIP or to win 24 marginal seats at the GE:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mps-broke-election-laws-7467576
They have the money, after all.

ThreeQuidder said:

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

marke09 said:

Well a good start for the Welsh Elections - postal ballot papers in three counties Ceredigion , Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire have to be re printed and sent out AGAIN after an error was spotted - love the way they blame the printers but am sure they are working with what they were given

http://www.pembrokeshire-herald.com/24171/new-ballot-papers-being-issued-to-postal-voters-after-printing-error/#comment-67891

The person placing the order will be asked to sign off on the artwork before the printing starts.

Indeed. Either the client provides a print ready PDF or the printer sends them a PDF proof to sign off. It's inconceivable for something like this that the client didn't approve the artwork.

Received our postal votes for the Welsh Assembly and Crime Commissioner and you need a degree to work out the paperwork. With a large number of elderly in our area I am sure that many may just not bother.

ThreeQuidder said:

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

marke09 said:

Well a good start for the Welsh Elections - postal ballot papers in three counties Ceredigion , Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire have to be re printed and sent out AGAIN after an error was spotted - love the way they blame the printers but am sure they are working with what they were given

http://www.pembrokeshire-herald.com/24171/new-ballot-papers-being-issued-to-postal-voters-after-printing-error/#comment-67891

The person placing the order will be asked to sign off on the artwork before the printing starts.

Indeed. Either the client provides a print ready PDF or the printer sends them a PDF proof to sign off. It's inconceivable for something like this that the client didn't approve the artwork.

What exactly was wrong with the wording. The old version says "Vote for only one candidate" the second says "Vote only once"? They are both as restrictive.

Also, I feel I should bring their usage of inverted commas around 'Tan' to the attention of @Morris_Dancer