Well a good start for the Welsh Elections - postal ballot papers in three counties Ceredigion , Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire have to be re printed and sent out AGAIN after an error was spotted - love the way they blame the printers but am sure they are working with what they were given
The person placing the order will be asked to sign off on the artwork before the printing starts.
Indeed. Either the client provides a print ready PDF or the printer sends them a PDF proof to sign off. It's inconceivable for something like this that the client didn't approve the artwork.
What exactly was wrong with the wording. The old version says "Vote for only one candidate" the second says "Vote only once"? They are both as restrictive.
Good question. Prescribed by legislation, maybe? Obviously the former would be wrong for a list seat but this is a constituency ballot paper, is it not?
Well a good start for the Welsh Elections - postal ballot papers in three counties Ceredigion , Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire have to be re printed and sent out AGAIN after an error was spotted - love the way they blame the printers but am sure they are working with what they were given
The person placing the order will be asked to sign off on the artwork before the printing starts.
Indeed. Either the client provides a print ready PDF or the printer sends them a PDF proof to sign off. It's inconceivable for something like this that the client didn't approve the artwork.
What exactly was wrong with the wording. The old version says "Vote for only one candidate" the second says "Vote only once"? They are both as restrictive.
Good question. Prescribed by legislation, maybe? Obviously the former would be wrong for a list seat but this is a constituency ballot paper, is it not?
Are there any examples of candidates being listed multiple times on a single ballot paper (I assume list and constituency ballot papers are seperate).... bloody PR!
ITV News on PMQs not dominated by Corbyn's triumph but instead the racist accusations from Labour at PMQs at Cameron.
So is this where the Labour REMAIN campaign supporters attack the REMAIN campaign front man Mr Meeks? Always the danger of REMAIN relying on Cameron to front things....
Typical MSM, dredging for sensation when they could be reporting on things that matter to the people.
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
Did George state in that campaign that he wanted to get rid of the pound?
The Euro was less than 2 years old at the time,, and George has not to my knowledge supported British entry since. So when was this period that Hannan speaks of, in terms of supporting abolishing the pound? I am struggling to find anything on google.
On C4 News "Lib Dem candidates considering action" against the Conservatives over election spending.
Of course Lib Dems used to be amongst the worst at doing this for by elections.
In Torbay, the former LibDem MP Adrian Sanders was telling anyone who would listen that the Tory Battlebus was full of useless idiots who didn't know their way round the constituency and were contributing the square root of sod all.
I notice he hasn't ever really gone after Kasich. I assume if he falls a bit short he'll make him some sort of ... generous offer (SoS, VP etc). Kasich is 63 too so he's not like Rubio who has to worry about a career etc..
Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.
I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?
I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).
What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.
FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.
I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.
Why? Three reasons:
1) As more focus is put on the referendum campaign in the media, the public will be engaged more, which in turn will drive up likely turnout. I'm expecting turnout to be relatively high and have bet accordingly. Since the less engaged voters at present are disproportionately inclined to Remain, that should help Remain.
2) Leave are losing on their messaging on the economy. This is going to be decisive for many voters.
3) Leave's prospectus for future negotiations lacks plausibility. It will be hard to persuade the public that the rest of the EU really will give Britain everything it wants cost free. Many voters will be unnerved by this uncertainty.
As an ardent Leaver (let's go all politicalbetting.com for a second) it's hard to disagree with that.
I'm sticking by my prediction of 58:42 to Remain for a bad Leave campaign, and 52:48 to Remain for a very good one.
Right now, it's looking much more like the former. And I say that as someone who's just got back from delivering 200 leaflets.
I notice he hasn't ever really gone after Kasich. I assume if he falls a bit short he'll make him some sort of ... generous offer (SoS, VP etc). Kasich is 63 too so he's not like Rubio who has to worry about a career etc..
Why go after someone who is almost invisible, and irrelevant?
Although Kasich will probably beat Cruz in all five states next Tuesday.
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Simon Kelner says Cameron should reject the EU referendum if we vote the wrong way:
"I know they had to offer a referendum for narrow tactical reasons, and now they are faced with the real prospect of the people of Britain going against them. In my view, a vote to leave would make us pretty much a laughing stock in serious circles. In that case, I think David Cameron should follow Nerc’s example and steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people."
What's even more astonishing is that Simon Kelner was editor-in-chief of The Independent and Independent on Sunday from 1998 to 2008, and then Managing Director of the Independent titles, and then editor again from 2010 to 2013.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.
I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?
I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).
What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.
FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.
I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.
Why? Three reasons:
1) As more focus is put on the referendum campaign in the media, the public will be engaged more, which in turn will drive up likely turnout. I'm expecting turnout to be relatively high and have bet accordingly. Since the less engaged voters at present are disproportionately inclined to Remain, that should help Remain.
2) Leave are losing on their messaging on the economy. This is going to be decisive for many voters.
3) Leave's prospectus for future negotiations lacks plausibility. It will be hard to persuade the public that the rest of the EU really will give Britain everything it wants cost free. Many voters will be unnerved by this uncertainty.
As an ardent Leaver (let's go all politicalbetting.com for a second) it's hard to disagree with that.
I'm sticking by my prediction of 58:42 to Remain for a bad Leave campaign, and 52:48 to Remain for a very good one.
Right now, it's looking much more like the former. And I say that as someone who's just got back from delivering 200 leaflets.
Don't be such a moaning Myrtle! With a bit of luck we can get to 49:51 and spend the rest of time bemoaning what might have been, washed down with bottles of claret (the traditional Tory wine - Port was for Whigs).
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
What manifesto people ran under doesn't seem to speak much as to what they believe, they'll parrot the lines necessary. Wasn't Blair elected under the 1983 manifesto?
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
I think it very unlikely that Osborne would have been expressly pro-Euro, then. I don't know what views he may have privately expressed.
Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.
I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?
I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).
What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.
FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.
I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.
Why? Three reasons:
1) As more focus is put on the referendum campaign in the media, the public will be engaged more, which in turn will drive up likely turnout. I'm expecting turnout to be relatively high and have bet accordingly. Since the less engaged voters at present are disproportionately inclined to Remain, that should help Remain.
2) Leave are losing on their messaging on the economy. This is going to be decisive for many voters.
3) Leave's prospectus for future negotiations lacks plausibility. It will be hard to persuade the public that the rest of the EU really will give Britain everything it wants cost free. Many voters will be unnerved by this uncertainty.
As an ardent Leaver (let's go all politicalbetting.com for a second) it's hard to disagree with that.
I'm sticking by my prediction of 58:42 to Remain for a bad Leave campaign, and 52:48 to Remain for a very good one.
Right now, it's looking much more like the former. And I say that as someone who's just got back from delivering 200 leaflets.
Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.
I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?
I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).
What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.
FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.
I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.
Why? Three reasons:
1) As more focus is put on the referendum campaign in the media, the public will be engaged more, which in turn will drive up likely turnout. I'm expecting turnout to be relatively high and have bet accordingly. Since the less engaged voters at present are disproportionately inclined to Remain, that should help Remain.
2) Leave are losing on their messaging on the economy. This is going to be decisive for many voters.
3) Leave's prospectus for future negotiations lacks plausibility. It will be hard to persuade the public that the rest of the EU really will give Britain everything it wants cost free. Many voters will be unnerved by this uncertainty.
As an ardent Leaver (let's go all politicalbetting.com for a second) it's hard to disagree with that.
I'm sticking by my prediction of 58:42 to Remain for a bad Leave campaign, and 52:48 to Remain for a very good one.
Right now, it's looking much more like the former. And I say that as someone who's just got back from delivering 200 leaflets.
Don't be such a moaning Myrtle! With a bit of luck we can get to 49:51 and spend the rest of time bemoaning what might have been, washed down with bottles of claret (the traditional Tory wine - Port was for Whigs).
I'm not moaning. But this is a betting site.
I will fight with all my heart and soul for Leave, don't you worry. There is still a small chance of victory.
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
I think it very unlikely that Osborne would have been expressly pro-Euro, then. I don't know what views he may have privately expressed.
Judging by Osborne's tenure as chancellor, I'd be surprised if he had any deep political economic convictions whatsoever.
The next budget failure figures are due soon. Two trillion here we come.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
I'very never been a believer in the power of the ground game, especially in a national referendum. This will be won and lost on TV, in the press and on-line. Well that's my excuse for being an idle bugger.
(P.S. Predictive typing offered 'idiot' rather than 'idle' - and that was before I even typed the i!)
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
I'very never been a believer in the power of the ground game, especially in a national referendum. This will be won and lost on TV, in the press and on-line. Well that's my excuse for being an idle bugger.
(P.S. Predictive typing offered 'idiot' rather than 'idle' - and that was before I even typed the i!)
The ground game boosts morale, gets a few other volunteers out on the streets, frames the debate, gets people talking, gives hope and, occasionally, changes a few minds.
A good ground game can be worth between 500-2,000 votes in a parliamentary constituency election. In a national referendum, nationwide, it could be worth between 1-3% of national votes if consistent and universal.
Bear in mind: the Government will spunk out its stuff regularly and easily over the next 8 weeks. Leave requires us to do it ourselves, or it won't happen at all.
Didn't get past the byline. As a committed Remainian for the dumbest of reasons, Meeks' advice to Leave should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.
I thought he writes impartial advice balanced with the best of intentions?
I've never claimed to be impartial in my thread headers. My intentions are to either entertain or inform (myself if no one else).
What is your forecast today for the referendum outcome? Mine tonight is 53% LEAVE.
FYI Not looking to bet on this I only have a few bets on turnout and Leader replacements.
I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me.
Why? Three reasons:
1) As more focus is put on the referendum campaign in the media, the public will be engaged more, which in turn will drive up likely turnout. I'm expecting turnout to be relatively high and have bet accordingly. Since the less engaged voters at present are disproportionately inclined to Remain, that should help Remain.
2) Leave are losing on their messaging on the economy. This is going to be decisive for many voters.
3) Leave's prospectus for future negotiations lacks plausibility. It will be hard to persuade the public that the rest of the EU really will give Britain everything it wants cost free. Many voters will be unnerved by this uncertainty.
As an ardent Leaver (let's go all politicalbetting.com for a second) it's hard to disagree with that.
I'm sticking by my prediction of 58:42 to Remain for a bad Leave campaign, and 52:48 to Remain for a very good one.
Right now, it's looking much more like the former. And I say that as someone who's just got back from delivering 200 leaflets.
Don't be such a moaning Myrtle! With a bit of luck we can get to 49:51 and spend the rest of time bemoaning what might have been, washed down with bottles of claret (the traditional Tory wine - Port was for Whigs).
I'm not moaning. But this is a betting site.
I will fight with all my heart and soul for Leave, don't you worry. There is still a small chance of victory.
OK - just don't want you falling into the Hitchens/Dalrymple slough of despond (not that everything they say is wrong...).
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...in.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
I'very never been a believer in the power of the ground game, especially in a national referendum. This will be won and lost on TV, in the press and on-line. Well that's my excuse for being an idle bugger.
(P.S. Predictive typing offered 'idiot' rather than 'idle' - and that was before I even typed the i!)
The ground game boosts morale, gets a few other volunteers out on the streets, frames the debate, gets people talking, gives hope and, occasionally, changes a few minds.
A good ground game can be worth between 500-2,000 votes in a parliamentary constituency election. In a national referendum, nationwide, it could be worth between 1-3% of national votes if consistent and universal.
Bear in mind: the Government will spunk out its stuff regularly and easily over the next 8 weeks. Leave requires us to do it ourselves, or it won't happen at all.
The ground game is primarily aimed at identifying and getting out the vote. It does other things as well but that is the key part (even more important in a non-GE election).
Handily it's also proven to work at boosting turnout, despite Sandy's doubts.
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
What manifesto people ran under doesn't seem to speak much as to what they believe, they'll parrot the lines necessary. Wasn't Blair elected under the 1983 manifesto?
Didn't Blair believe in all that though? He may have changed later on but I thought he was genuinely very left wing early in his career?
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Simon Kelner says Cameron should reject the EU referendum if we vote the wrong way:
"I know they had to offer a referendum for narrow tactical reasons, and now they are faced with the real prospect of the people of Britain going against them. In my view, a vote to leave would make us pretty much a laughing stock in serious circles. In that case, I think David Cameron should follow Nerc’s example and steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people."
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Spurred on by the resounding remain conviction of your leader?
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
What manifesto people ran under doesn't seem to speak much as to what they believe, they'll parrot the lines necessary. Wasn't Blair elected under the 1983 manifesto?
Didn't Blair believe in all that though? He may have changed later on but I thought he was genuinely very left wing early in his career?
Thatcher made a rather famous shift in her opinions.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Weren't Corbyn and McDonnell mavericks a few months ago? The Labour Party voted for them and now they run the party. I'm not sure how much the old guard is listened to.
Besides which, I've never been convinced by lots of names. A lot of people can be very, very wrong together.
I hope ordinary Labour voters tell the bunch of them to get stuffed.
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
What manifesto people ran under doesn't seem to speak much as to what they believe, they'll parrot the lines necessary. Wasn't Blair elected under the 1983 manifesto?
Didn't Blair believe in all that though? He may have changed later on but I thought he was genuinely very left wing early in his career?
I suppose that is the alternate possibility, although it comes to the same point - what they stood for when first entering parliament is not necessarily what they do now.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Weren't Corbyn and McDonnell mavericks a few months ago? The Labour Party voted for them and now they run the party. I'm not sure how much the old guard is listened to.
Besides which, I've never been convinced by lots of names. A lot of people can be very, very wrong together.
I hope ordinary Labour voters tell the bunch of them to get stuffed.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
That is an interesting claim by Hannan. George Osborne became an MP in 2001, one of very few gains by Tories on William Hague's "save the poind" election manifesto.
That was a very much reverting to mean seat after the man in the white suit stood down iirc.
Sure, but George was selected for that very winnable seat.
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
What manifesto people ran under doesn't seem to speak much as to what they believe, they'll parrot the lines necessary. Wasn't Blair elected under the 1983 manifesto?
Didn't Blair believe in all that though? He may have changed later on but I thought he was genuinely very left wing early in his career?
Thatcher made a rather famous shift in her opinions.
Thatcher, Lawson, Tebbit, Lamont.. And probably Keith Joseph and Cecil Parkinson too, had they been alive today.
This was a europhile generation.
It was people like John Biffen (very dry, socially liberal) who saw it from the start.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
T
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Weren't Corbyn and McDonnell mavericks a few months ago? The Labour Party voted for them and now they run the party. I'm not sure how much the old guard is listened to.
Besides which, I've never been convinced by lots of names. A lot of people can be very, very wrong together.
I hope ordinary Labour voters tell the bunch of them to get stuffed.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
Thing is: he didn't need to do that to maintain power, did he?
He's said everything else he thinks on terrorism and defence. Why would the EU threaten his position?
Leavers seem totally unable to understand that, presented with facts, one may reasonably abandon previously held views.
But there are very few "facts" - it's mainly just projections and assumptions, most of the recent ones cited being anything but objective and independent.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Weren't Corbyn and McDonnell mavericks a few months ago? The Labour Party voted for them and now they run the party. I'm not sure how much the old guard is listened to.
Besides which, I've never been convinced by lots of names. A lot of people can be very, very wrong together.
I hope ordinary Labour voters tell the bunch of them to get stuffed.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
I think that just as the Yes to AV referendum camp made the mistake of being associated with ever permitting another Tory majority government, the Leave campaign has so closely associated itself with the headbangers of the Tory right and UKIP that it is never going to gain much support on the left. Even the mainstays of Labour Leave are very much on the right of that party. Galloway is the only real left winger, and I would be careful showcasing him too much.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
Thing is: he didn't need to do that to maintain power, did he?
He's said everything else he thinks on terrorism and defence. Why would the EU threaten his position?
Your last question might answer it. Dunno.
Because a lot of MPs like Andy Burnham etc said they'd support Corbyn staying in his post as long as he didn't rock the boat on Europe. That backing Leave would guarantee an MP leadership challenge and leave him struggling to fill his cabinet roles.
It's a sad state of affairs that for so-called "moderate Labour MPs" Corbyn saying what he has to say on terrorism and defence etc is acceptable, but the idea of our country being self-governing is a bridge too far.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
I think that just as the Yes to AV referendum camp made the mistake of being associated with ever permitting another Tory majority government, the Leave campaign has so closely associated itself with the headbangers of the Tory right and UKIP that it is never going to gain much support on the left. Even the mainstays of Labour Leave are very much on the right of that party. Galloway is the only real left winger, and I would be careful showcasing him too much.
Yes to AV did no such thing. Yes to AV made the opposite mistake, of only associating with leftwingers. They refused to share a platform with the likes of Farage who backed electoral reform but was seen as unacceptable.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Spurred on by the resounding remain conviction of your leader?
He's not my leader as I am no longer a Labour voter.
That aside it doesn't' matter how strong Corbys 's conviction is, all that matters from the Remain POV is that all sections of the Labour movement are pulling in the same direction. In fact the left of centre (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) are all virtually united for remain,
Exiting the EU has always been a predominantly right wing obsession and even then it has never enjoyed majority support amongst Tory MPs.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Spurred on by the resounding remain conviction of your leader?
He's not my leader as I am no longer a Labour voter.
That aside it doesn't' matter how strong Corbys 's conviction is, all that matters from the Remain POV is that all sections of the Labour movement are pulling in the same direction. In fact the left of centre (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) are all virtually united for remain,
Exiting the EU has always been a predominantly right wing obsession and even then it has never enjoyed majority support amongst Tory MPs.
Not always. Corbyn represented the old school Bennite left wing belief of exiting the EU.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
I think that just as the Yes to AV referendum camp made the mistake of being associated with ever permitting another Tory majority government, the Leave campaign has so closely associated itself with the headbangers of the Tory right and UKIP that it is never going to gain much support on the left. Even the mainstays of Labour Leave are very much on the right of that party. Galloway is the only real left winger, and I would be careful showcasing him too much.
Yes to AV did no such thing. Yes to AV made the opposite mistake, of only associating with leftwingers. They refused to share a platform with the likes of Farage who backed electoral reform but was seen as unacceptable.
Yes to AV made the mistake of associating their campaign with the left, Leave is repeating that in reverse, with the hard right.
Worth noting that this distance out in the AV ref the polls were neck and neck too. It doesn't tell you in which if any direction that they are going to shift though.
Leavers seem totally unable to understand that, presented with facts, one may reasonably abandon previously held views.
Pretty standard for politics - how often are people condemned for things they may have said in the past (I do make the concession if someone's schtick is unchanging views, it is still relevant)
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
I think that just as the Yes to AV referendum camp made the mistake of being associated with ever permitting another Tory majority government, the Leave campaign has so closely associated itself with the headbangers of the Tory right and UKIP that it is never going to gain much support on the left. Even the mainstays of Labour Leave are very much on the right of that party. Galloway is the only real left winger, and I would be careful showcasing him too much.
Yes to AV did no such thing. Yes to AV made the opposite mistake, of only associating with leftwingers. They refused to share a platform with the likes of Farage who backed electoral reform but was seen as unacceptable.
Yes to AV made the mistake of associating their campaign with the left, Leave is repeating that in reverse, with the hard right.
Worth noting that this distance out in the AV ref the polls were neck and neck too. It doesn't tell you in which if any direction that they are going to shift though.
I see what you mean, I thought you meant that Yes to AV lost because the Lib Dems went into government with the Tories.
AV started out with a significant lead in the polls which only ever shifted in one direction. It narrowed to being neck and neck and then continued in the same direction to a thumping defeat.
The same can not be said about this referendum. Recent momentum if anything is to Leave but it keeps swinging back and forth which never happened for AV.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Spurred on by the resounding remain conviction of your leader?
He's not my leader as I am no longer a Labour voter.
That aside it doesn't' matter how strong Corbys 's conviction is, all that matters from the Remain POV is that all sections of the Labour movement are pulling in the same direction. In fact the left of centre (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) are all virtually united for remain,
Exiting the EU has always been a predominantly right wing obsession and even then it has never enjoyed majority support amongst Tory MPs.
It was not too long ago, a predominantly left wing obsession.
It's instrumental. In the 1970s and 80s, the EU was seen as a barrier to a radical socialist State. Now it's seen as a barrier to a radical right wing State. In the 70's and 80's, Tories feared they'd lose to the radical left. Now, Labour fear they'll lose to the radical right.
It was not too long ago, a predominantly left wing obsession.
It's instrumental. In the 1970s and 80s, the EU was seen as a barrier to a radical socialist State. Now it's seen as a barrier to a radical right wing State. In the 70's and 80's, Tories feared they'd lose to the radical left. Now, Labour fear they'll lose to the radical right.
To be fair the EU itself has changed not just Britain. Had Delors never led the Commission we might have a very different environment today.
'Leave now, or forever hold your peace.' 'Stop. Look. Listen. Leave.' 'Remain is for life, not just for this mess'
Sadly they're all flawed in some way, but you can't always find something with both bait and hook, by which I mean catchy and memorable, but also laying claim to a competitive position that undermines your competitor's position.
My aim here is to try to highlight the commitment angle of Remain. The last time people voted was in 1975, on a prospectus of staying in a Common Market. They were not to get another chance to offer a verdict until now. It must be doubted that we will see another chance in our lifetime. To Remain is therefore a lifetime commitment. It's a marriage with no divorce, a purchase with no refunds, a contract with no termination clause. Do people want to fling themselves into another 50 years of this?
I would envisage this being accompanied by an outdoor campaign (billboards) visually depicting Remain as: -an uncomfortable wedding ring (made of stars?) being forced upon a reluctant hand -a contract with a lot of fine print being pushed by a lot of pushy spiv salesmen -signing a blank cheque to 'Remain'
This would park Leave's tanks on the 'caution' ground that has hitherto been occupied by Remain (a few bold dawn raids by the likes of IDS excepted). By framing 'Remain' as a commitment, the prospect becomes ugly. We shy from commitment. It involves thought and stress. Reading the terms and conditions. And by appealing earnestly to people to 'think twice' Leave look responsible, and give lazy people the pretext they're looking for to stay at home.
By endorsing a delay to Article 50, Gove and pals have said that the referendum should be ignored, at least until it's opportune for them to do so. Bizarro move, but there you go.
The fieldwork was when Osborne released his Treasury study and was on the telly a lot.
Another out of touch loser
The study that has been thoroughly rubbished. Don't worry though, the party will unite and everything will be okay once the referendum is out of the way...
By endorsing a delay to Article 50, Gove and pals have said that the referendum should be ignored, at least until it's opportune for them to do so. Bizarro move, but there you go.
They're hopeless. Probably right, but they're making the KEY mistake of replying to their opponents, not replying through their opponents to the electorate. Who are these people? Complete bunch of muppets running Vote Leave. I've not heard of a single good decision they've made, not a single one.
I wonder if Corbyn had the courage of his convictions and had campaigned for Leave, rather than sacrificing his principles in order to maintain power, what difference would that have made?
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
Thing is: he didn't need to do that to maintain power, did he?
He's said everything else he thinks on terrorism and defence. Why would the EU threaten his position?
Your last question might answer it. Dunno.
Because a lot of MPs like Andy Burnham etc said they'd support Corbyn staying in his post as long as he didn't rock the boat on Europe. That backing Leave would guarantee an MP leadership challenge and leave him struggling to fill his cabinet roles.
It's a sad state of affairs that for so-called "moderate Labour MPs" Corbyn saying what he has to say on terrorism and defence etc is acceptable, but the idea of our country being self-governing is a bridge too far.
Quite. The EU is more important to many Labour MPs than their own country.
Basically, the great and the good want us to vote Remain.
We can either tug our forelocks and do as they say, or stick two fingers up and vote Leave.
A victory for Leave will be a victory for the common man & woman.
A Labour for Leave poster with Cameron and Osborne in their most off-putting, smirking, giggling Parliamentary pose with "Do you REALLY want to support this pair and vote Remain?" could have considerable impact....
I think the route for a Leave victory lies through the Labour vote - I'm not sure there are too many more swingable Tories now. Those that are might plump 60:40 to Remain.
I'd be interested in Sandy's views on this. Danny/BJO are interesting too.
Your wish is my command...
The problem for Leave is that apart from a few lone voices, Labour is organisationally fully behind remain. CLP meetings have guest speakers from the Remain camp, branches organise street stalls to campaign for Remain and countless emails come from on high pushing the Remain message. Who is appealing to wavering Labour voters from the Leave side? George Galloway is the only known face, and he isn't even Labour. Ironically, if Corbyn hadn't won the leadership, I would have expected to see him and McDonnell front and centre in Labour Leave. Cameron lucky yet again.
Come on mate, not that bad.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
And there you have pretty much named the entire Labour Leave "names" - except Owen who of course left the Party 30+ years ago. Hoey & Field are pretty much seen as mavericks in Labour. and the other 3 most will never have heard of.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Spurred on by the resounding remain conviction of your leader?
He's not my leader as I am no longer a Labour voter.
That aside it doesn't' matter how strong Corbys 's conviction is, all that matters from the Remain POV is that all sections of the Labour movement are pulling in the same direction. In fact the left of centre (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) are all virtually united for remain,
Exiting the EU has always been a predominantly right wing obsession and even then it has never enjoyed majority support amongst Tory MPs.
You keep saying this, yet 45%+ of the population will probably vote Leave in 2 months.
@britainelects: On the degree of risk to the British economy if Britain votes to remain: Big: 19% Slight: 34% Hardly any: 24% No risk: 18% (via ComRes)
@britainelects: On the degree of risk to the British economy if Britain votes to remain: Big: 19% Slight: 34% Hardly any: 24% No risk: 18% (via ComRes)
Thanks for that, interesting. I'd argue that there is a bigger risk with leaving than staying, but given my current outlook on life in this country it's a risk worth taking.
@britainelects: On the degree of risk to the British economy if Britain votes to remain: Big: 19% Slight: 34% Hardly any: 24% No risk: 18% (via ComRes)
Excellent data. THESE are the figures that Leave need to work on.
Comments
Very refreshing to hear our future King talking about the Queen giving him "a mighty bollocking". Nice touch.
https://youtu.be/lNU5KVa_Tu8
"The South Downs way is beyond miserable"
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/the-south-downs-way-is-beyond-miserable/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/de/delaware_republican_presidential_primary-5784.html
Did George state in that campaign that he wanted to get rid of the pound?
The Euro was less than 2 years old at the time,, and George has not to my knowledge supported British entry since. So when was this period that Hannan speaks of, in terms of supporting abolishing the pound? I am struggling to find anything on google.
No doubt they now cost him his seat....
REMAIN 0.5% .. LEAVE 99.5% ????
The best I can do is MikeK's Independent Determination of the Referendum's Inevitable Final Footprint. I'm sure someone can improve on that!
I'm sticking by my prediction of 58:42 to Remain for a bad Leave campaign, and 52:48 to Remain for a very good one.
Right now, it's looking much more like the former. And I say that as someone who's just got back from delivering 200 leaflets.
Will now appear every fortnight on a Wednesday.
Remain: 52.22%
Leave: 47.88%
Results by MBCB: My Beautiful Crystal Balls.
Although Kasich will probably beat Cruz in all five states next Tuesday.
He is no ordinary journalist.
What about Kate Hooey, Frank Field, Lord Owen? Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff?
Have you contacted Labour Leave at all to help organise?
Did he run on a pro-Euro line or on the Tory manifesto of "save the pound"?
Or was an avid believer in the Euro selected for a plum seat in an anti-Euro Tory party? The latter makes no sense to me.
If anyone can substantiate Hannan's claim then I would be interested to see it.
A perfect constitutional storm.
Ann Summers - Bonkers for Europe...
Giving just a little bit more than 100%...
Remain 48.531%
Leave 51.469%
I will fight with all my heart and soul for Leave, don't you worry. There is still a small chance of victory.
The next budget failure figures are due soon. Two trillion here we come.
(P.S. Predictive typing offered 'idiot' rather than 'idle' - and that was before I even typed the i!)
Leave 46.6858407346
A good ground game can be worth between 500-2,000 votes in a parliamentary constituency election. In a national referendum, nationwide, it could be worth between 1-3% of national votes if consistent and universal.
Bear in mind: the Government will spunk out its stuff regularly and easily over the next 8 weeks. Leave requires us to do it ourselves, or it won't happen at all.
Handily it's also proven to work at boosting turnout, despite Sandy's doubts.
Labour and the unions will be 95% behind Remain and once the May elections are over I expect them to shift gears and make a significant impact particularly in raising turnout.
Not sure how that comparison is supposed to work!
Besides which, I've never been convinced by lots of names. A lot of people can be very, very wrong together.
I hope ordinary Labour voters tell the bunch of them to get stuffed.
Could he have got the Momentum crowd behind him?
This was a europhile generation.
It was people like John Biffen (very dry, socially liberal) who saw it from the start.
He's said everything else he thinks on terrorism and defence. Why would the EU threaten his position?
Your last question might answer it. Dunno.
It's a sad state of affairs that for so-called "moderate Labour MPs" Corbyn saying what he has to say on terrorism and defence etc is acceptable, but the idea of our country being self-governing is a bridge too far.
That aside it doesn't' matter how strong Corbys 's conviction is, all that matters from the Remain POV is that all sections of the Labour movement are pulling in the same direction. In fact the left of centre (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) are all virtually united for remain,
Exiting the EU has always been a predominantly right wing obsession and even then it has never enjoyed majority support amongst Tory MPs.
Worth noting that this distance out in the AV ref the polls were neck and neck too. It doesn't tell you in which if any direction that they are going to shift though.
AV started out with a significant lead in the polls which only ever shifted in one direction. It narrowed to being neck and neck and then continued in the same direction to a thumping defeat.
The same can not be said about this referendum. Recent momentum if anything is to Leave but it keeps swinging back and forth which never happened for AV.
It's instrumental. In the 1970s and 80s, the EU was seen as a barrier to a radical socialist State. Now it's seen as a barrier to a radical right wing State. In the 70's and 80's, Tories feared they'd lose to the radical left. Now, Labour fear they'll lose to the radical right.
https://twitter.com/LivEchoLFC/status/722894450368782338
'Leave now, or forever hold your peace.'
'Stop. Look. Listen. Leave.'
'Remain is for life, not just for this mess'
Sadly they're all flawed in some way, but you can't always find something with both bait and hook, by which I mean catchy and memorable, but also laying claim to a competitive position that undermines your competitor's position.
My aim here is to try to highlight the commitment angle of Remain. The last time people voted was in 1975, on a prospectus of staying in a Common Market. They were not to get another chance to offer a verdict until now. It must be doubted that we will see another chance in our lifetime. To Remain is therefore a lifetime commitment. It's a marriage with no divorce, a purchase with no refunds, a contract with no termination clause. Do people want to fling themselves into another 50 years of this?
I would envisage this being accompanied by an outdoor campaign (billboards) visually depicting Remain as:
-an uncomfortable wedding ring (made of stars?) being forced upon a reluctant hand
-a contract with a lot of fine print being pushed by a lot of pushy spiv salesmen
-signing a blank cheque to 'Remain'
This would park Leave's tanks on the 'caution' ground that has hitherto been occupied by Remain (a few bold dawn raids by the likes of IDS excepted). By framing 'Remain' as a commitment, the prospect becomes ugly. We shy from commitment. It involves thought and stress. Reading the terms and conditions. And by appealing earnestly to people to 'think twice' Leave look responsible, and give lazy people the pretext they're looking for to stay at home.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/722895083025014786
@ScotNational: Tomorrow @ScotNational @LesleyRiddoch defends her decision to vote Green instead of SNP in the list vote https://t.co/maCq4ZmmJJ
Anything could happen but starting to feel it could easily turn into a repeat of AV with Remain winning by a very wide margin.
Another out of touch loser
Big: 19%
Slight: 34%
Hardly any: 24%
No risk: 18%
(via ComRes)
Undecideds moving pretty clearly to Remain at the moment.
Leave need to fight back. Fast.