NEW: Former Government minister and Conservative MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup James Brokenshire, who had been suffering with lung cancer, has died aged 53, his family has said in a statement.
I think it is 1 in 6 lung cancer victims have never smoked.
My brother-in-law's colon cancer was discovered only once it had metastasized to the lungs. Fortunately a combination of surgery, chemo and radiation treatment saved him.
Would that be counted as a lung cancer, colon cancer or both death? Genuine question. I presume colon, but I don't know.
Julia Hartley-Brewer @JuliaHB1 · 59m This is heartbreaking news. James Brokenshire was, quite simply, one of the good guys. My condolences to his family and friends.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
It proves how well-integrated they are.
One fascinating feature of the next 20-30 years will be viewing how the politics of an increasingly racially mixed society evolves.
I think many on the radical Left thinks minorities are a new base of allies who will give rise to permanent victory (replacing the WWC, who let them down) but I think their values are far more conservative, and as they cease to be minorities and become pluralities their voting behaviour will converge with the mean.
This has been very much Canada. Many recent immigrants, particularly Asian ones, are strongly Conservative.
Asians out earn white people in Canada, the US and the UK. Of course the identity politics type respond to this by saying that's an average and hides the struggles many individual Asians face. Which is correct, but they never stop to think that might apply to white people too.
Asia's a big place.
It's really noticeable in the data that Chinese and Indians outearn white people, but Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are some of the worst performing ethnic groups.
It's more or less predictable from their educational qualifications.
It’s all class, innit?
The Bangladeshi migrants tended to be from a very poor region (ie Sylhet).
It is not just class. Some ethnic groups tend to only have one household earner even at low incomes, mainly due to religious reasons, which increases poverty.
@Casino_Royale from last thread. Killing off the general discussion but on a separate note you seemed surprised that I thought I might be to the right of you on some things and asked for examples. Clearly it is difficult to give specifics without an in depth discussion but in general I get the impression you are a traditional Conservative, more along the lines of @HYUFD although not as traditional as him, whereas I am more along the lines of an Orange Booker. Although I have some humdinger arguments with @Philip_Thompson on many things my views are often in line with him, although maybe not quite as libertarian as him, I am very libertarian.
Have I judged that correctly?
I am often misjudged as being of the left because I attack the Conservatives often, but equally I don't support Labour. I have never voted Labour and I am 67 in a few weeks. I often feel traditional Conservatives come out with some staggering Socialist policies (not you, just in general).
Thanks. So, you're very free-market then I presume?
I consider myself to be a traditional shire Tory. I don't agree with anyone all of the time on anything but I think the poster on here that comes closest to my views is @Sean_F
Yep very free market and small state. Like Philip I would like to see a Universal Wage. I was a fan of this from the 90s when I first heard it put forward by a right wing think tank. That could eliminate most of the DWP and much of HMRC. Not a fan of BEIS either. Far to much interference in the marketplace. I would like to see more generic laws and much less specific laws on issues. I hate the government faffing around an issue with interference. If something should be run by the state (eg health and education) then do so, otherwise leave it to the market, with generic laws to protect the consumer from abuse.
I hate bureaucracy and state interference because they are useless at it, but accept it is needed, but as little as possible. Leave people to live their lives.
I am also very, very socially liberal.
I like SeanF a lot also, but I like the views of a range of people. I like TSE, Nigelb, IanB2, kinabalu etc so a wide selection across the spectrum
Does this come as a surprise? What did you think my views were? I won't be offended if you though I was a raving Socialist.
Thanks. Interesting.
It comes as a surprise because almost all the posts of yours I can recall relate to social issues, institutions and the nation state, and that is where the zeitgeist currently is in political debate and where I suspect we diverge.
Oh that is very interesting. I have no idea what you are referring to re social issues and institutions. What did you have in mind? I am not a fan of institutions generally and I think you are, but I would be surprised if we differed much on social issues. Can you elaborate please? This is very interesting.
Re nation state are you referring to my luke warm attachment to nations and my liking of the EU?
I have to say it comes as a surprise that is how I come across. I thought I would come across as an Orange Book liberal, but often our own perception are different to what others see.
I would love to know what @Philip_Thompson and @HYUFD think I am with whom I have had many discussions.
I think that you and I can be quite similar in a lot of ways, though I'd put you down as slightly to the left of me.
One very good thing I saw in the earlier days of being online was the website Political Compass, though it was rather US-dominated, that broke views down to left & right on the X-axis and on the Y-axis was libertarianism (down) and authoritarianism (up). I've always been firmly in the bottom-right quadrant, I'd guess you'd be similar but maybe marginally to the left?
Be curious if people wanted to take the test and see where their results are. I've just done it again and mine are: Economic Left/Right: 4.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18
So I'm a left wing libertarian. Not exactly how I see myself. I would say centre on the left right axis, and while I generally see myself as liberal, I am quite strong on personal responsibility and respect for institutions.
Looks like I’ve moved even more left-libertarian than last time I did this as I’m now Economic Left/Right: -9.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.05 Although if they’d put in a few questions about responses to the pandemic such as vaccine mandates I bet my authoritarian score would have gone up!
Fundamentally I want a Fully Automatic Luxury Gay Space Communism like Iain Banks’ Culture.
I salute your ideological purity, comrade. I obviously need more self-education.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
Nope, it's the "I'm alright, Jack" while not letting others have the same chance that is the issue there.
On one level it's fully understandable, on another it feels utterly wrong
I don't see how. People are not obligated to a political view because of their background.
The policy is right or wrong, it's not right or wrong depending on the politician.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Hey PT, the GDR is on the phone and want their economic policies back.
The GDR had shortages due to mismanagement and state control.
The current shortages are extremely minor and the capitalist market economy will sort them out PDQ in the most productive and efficient way possible.
The old World Service one would have been more appropriate.
Lillibullero? It would certainly remind me of adolescence and interspersing Luxembourg with the World Service into the wee small hours. I guess I did feel fairly neutral about the Union then.
As a student I used to enjoy seeking out exotic stations on the shortwave (I went to Lampeter so we had to make our own fun). Radio Tirana’s Stalinist tractor factory statistics content was a favourite of mine.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
It proves how well-integrated they are.
One fascinating feature of the next 20-30 years will be viewing how the politics of an increasingly racially mixed society evolves.
I think many on the radical Left thinks minorities are a new base of allies who will give rise to permanent victory (replacing the WWC, who let them down) but I think their values are far more conservative, and as they cease to be minorities and become pluralities their voting behaviour will converge with the mean.
This has been very much Canada. Many recent immigrants, particularly Asian ones, are strongly Conservative.
Asians out earn white people in Canada, the US and the UK. Of course the identity politics type respond to this by saying that's an average and hides the struggles many individual Asians face. Which is correct, but they never stop to think that might apply to white people too.
Asia's a big place.
It's really noticeable in the data that Chinese and Indians outearn white people, but Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are some of the worst performing ethnic groups.
It's more or less predictable from their educational qualifications.
It’s all class, innit?
The Bangladeshi migrants tended to be from a very poor region (ie Sylhet).
It is not just class. Some ethnic groups tend to only have one household earner even at low incomes, mainly due to religious reasons, which increases poverty.
Yep, good point.
And indeed something to consider if we propose to replace EU migration with non-EU migration.
@Casino_Royale from last thread. Killing off the general discussion but on a separate note you seemed surprised that I thought I might be to the right of you on some things and asked for examples. Clearly it is difficult to give specifics without an in depth discussion but in general I get the impression you are a traditional Conservative, more along the lines of @HYUFD although not as traditional as him, whereas I am more along the lines of an Orange Booker. Although I have some humdinger arguments with @Philip_Thompson on many things my views are often in line with him, although maybe not quite as libertarian as him, I am very libertarian.
Have I judged that correctly?
I am often misjudged as being of the left because I attack the Conservatives often, but equally I don't support Labour. I have never voted Labour and I am 67 in a few weeks. I often feel traditional Conservatives come out with some staggering Socialist policies (not you, just in general).
Thanks. So, you're very free-market then I presume?
I consider myself to be a traditional shire Tory. I don't agree with anyone all of the time on anything but I think the poster on here that comes closest to my views is @Sean_F
Yep very free market and small state. Like Philip I would like to see a Universal Wage. I was a fan of this from the 90s when I first heard it put forward by a right wing think tank. That could eliminate most of the DWP and much of HMRC. Not a fan of BEIS either. Far to much interference in the marketplace. I would like to see more generic laws and much less specific laws on issues. I hate the government faffing around an issue with interference. If something should be run by the state (eg health and education) then do so, otherwise leave it to the market, with generic laws to protect the consumer from abuse.
I hate bureaucracy and state interference because they are useless at it, but accept it is needed, but as little as possible. Leave people to live their lives.
I am also very, very socially liberal.
I like SeanF a lot also, but I like the views of a range of people. I like TSE, Nigelb, IanB2, kinabalu etc so a wide selection across the spectrum
Does this come as a surprise? What did you think my views were? I won't be offended if you though I was a raving Socialist.
Thanks. Interesting.
It comes as a surprise because almost all the posts of yours I can recall relate to social issues, institutions and the nation state, and that is where the zeitgeist currently is in political debate and where I suspect we diverge.
Oh that is very interesting. I have no idea what you are referring to re social issues and institutions. What did you have in mind? I am not a fan of institutions generally and I think you are, but I would be surprised if we differed much on social issues. Can you elaborate please? This is very interesting.
Re nation state are you referring to my luke warm attachment to nations and my liking of the EU?
I have to say it comes as a surprise that is how I come across. I thought I would come across as an Orange Book liberal, but often our own perception are different to what others see.
I would love to know what @Philip_Thompson and @HYUFD think I am with whom I have had many discussions.
I think that you and I can be quite similar in a lot of ways, though I'd put you down as slightly to the left of me.
One very good thing I saw in the earlier days of being online was the website Political Compass, though it was rather US-dominated, that broke views down to left & right on the X-axis and on the Y-axis was libertarianism (down) and authoritarianism (up). I've always been firmly in the bottom-right quadrant, I'd guess you'd be similar but maybe marginally to the left?
Be curious if people wanted to take the test and see where their results are. I've just done it again and mine are: Economic Left/Right: 4.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18
The old World Service one would have been more appropriate.
Lillibullero? It would certainly remind me of adolescence and interspersing Luxembourg with the World Service into the wee small hours. I guess I did feel fairly neutral about the Union then.
As a student I used to enjoy seeking out exotic stations on the shortwave (I went to Lampeter so we had to make our own fun). Radio Tirana’s Stalinist tractor factory statistics content was a favourite of mine.
The crackle swooping into bursts of music and foreign language was a romantic thing for sure, at a time when one was most susceptible to the romantic.
Well there we go. I sit almost smack in the middle on Left/Right economics just a shade to the right (+0.63) but fairly strongly Libertarian on social issues (-5.5)
It is interesting that I have drifted more centrist economically over the years but not moved at all really on the Libertarianism.
The old World Service one would have been more appropriate.
Lillibullero? It would certainly remind me of adolescence and interspersing Luxembourg with the World Service into the wee small hours. I guess I did feel fairly neutral about the Union then.
Yes. I love Lillibullero, but apparently it’s sectarian so it’s not allowed anymore.
NEW: Former Government minister and Conservative MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup James Brokenshire, who had been suffering with lung cancer, has died aged 53, his family has said in a statement.
I think it is 1 in 6 lung cancer victims have never smoked.
My brother-in-law's colon cancer was discovered only once it had metastasized to the lungs. Fortunately a combination of surgery, chemo and radiation treatment saved him.
Would that be counted as a lung cancer, colon cancer or both death? Genuine question. I presume colon, but I don't know.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
It proves how well-integrated they are.
One fascinating feature of the next 20-30 years will be viewing how the politics of an increasingly racially mixed society evolves.
I think many on the radical Left thinks minorities are a new base of allies who will give rise to permanent victory (replacing the WWC, who let them down) but I think their values are far more conservative, and as they cease to be minorities and become pluralities their voting behaviour will converge with the mean.
This has been very much Canada. Many recent immigrants, particularly Asian ones, are strongly Conservative.
Asians out earn white people in Canada, the US and the UK. Of course the identity politics type respond to this by saying that's an average and hides the struggles many individual Asians face. Which is correct, but they never stop to think that might apply to white people too.
Isn't really an income thing. More a Social Conservatism one.
That isn't what the arguments for reparations say.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
Very much most people believe the answer to any problem is “the government should force people to…”.
If only there was a party who would articulate that view.
Even the most libertarian party turns more authoritarian in government.
Just as backers of PR support FPTP once it looks like they'll win.
Has Trudeau said anything on the subject since the election? Of course, IIRC, the problem there is one gets massive Con majorities piling up in Cowboy/Oilman areas.
Trudeau was hugely in favour of PR before 2015. Indeed it was one of his top 3 priorities for government. Since when he hasn't been. The Libs won a majority in 2015. And have since twice won most seats with fewer votes. What a remarkable coincidence!
Turned out it was complicated after all, nothing suspicious there.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
I think people holding political opinions just because of who their parents are most distasteful, whatever side they are on.
Well there we go. I sit almost smack in the middle on Left/Right economics just a shade to the right (+0.63) but fairly strongly Libertarian on social issues (-5.5)
It is interesting that I have drifted more centrist economically over the years but not moved at all really on the Libertarianism.
I get very similar results. What is odd is that it puts political leaders as all being 75% of the way to Hitler, which doesn't make sense to me. David Cameron, Barack Obama etc all are a little less libertarian than me, but not dramatically so. I think libertarians run the site. Also some of the questions are ridiculous. What does your opinion of abstract art have to do with politics? The rich are too highly taxed - well depends which country you mean.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
I think people holding political opinions just because of who their parents are most distasteful, whatever side they are on.
I wouldn't say distasteful, but I think it's a bad idea for all manner of reasons of the 'We always vote X round here' variety that it is an extension of.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
Economic Left/Right: -4.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.85
I'm surprised at that as economically I'm very much business friendly - but I suspect I'm answering a few of those questions with a European rather than American viewpoint / bias which will swing me to the left.
I tend to think of myself economically right and socially liberal. However, it seems I'm a lot less liberal than many of you here and also a lot less right-wing than I thought! I tend to agree that this particularly seems to skew more to the left.
NEW: Former Government minister and Conservative MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup James Brokenshire, who had been suffering with lung cancer, has died aged 53, his family has said in a statement.
I think it is 1 in 6 lung cancer victims have never smoked.
My brother-in-law's colon cancer was discovered only once it had metastasized to the lungs. Fortunately a combination of surgery, chemo and radiation treatment saved him.
Would that be counted as a lung cancer, colon cancer or both death? Genuine question. I presume colon, but I don't know.
I think it is generally classified on the basis of the original tumour if it can be discovered.
A good friend of mine, former neighbour and former science teacher when I was at school died of CUP (Cancer of unknown Primary) and I was surprised to find how much such diagnosis limits the ability of the doctors to treat it.
Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -1.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05
I've always hovered around the mid-point on "left/right" - this iteration slightly to the left of before, and consistently been libertarian.
I got Economic Left/Right -1.0. Social Libertarian/Authoritarian +0.56
Most PBers lean economically right but socially liberal.
Political Compass does generally tend to get left liberal results though in my experience because of the questions asked
It's calibrated on Americans.
Wikipedia says it may be British or New Zealand based, and I see they’re promoting caricatures by an NZ cartoonist. They also have a link to where they reckoned the British political parties placed on it as of the 2019 GE.
I tend to think of myself economically right and socially liberal. However, it seems I'm a lot less liberal than many of you here and also a lot less right-wing than I thought! I tend to agree that this particularly seems to skew more to the left.
Remember it's biased towards US politics which means what to us is economically very right wing is very much middle of the road there.
Our latest results from the #COVID19 Infection Survey show increasing infection rates in England, uncertainty in Wales and decreases in both Northern Ireland and Scotland in the week ending 2 October 2021
Looking forward to @NerysHughes becoming Rashford's biggest fan now. -----------------------
Pretty decisive answer!
A friend in Austria tells me that a number of Social Democrat and Green municipal elections have been won recently by candidates noted for their personal efforts and contributions, topped by a Communist winning the mayoral election in Graz (the second-largest city), even though the party is on 0.1% nationally. Apparently she gives most of her council income to a local charity for people in difficulty and the party has built a reputation for being helpful with legal advice, food banks, etc.
Little problem with any of this - there's a small query about building popularity with money, but in the end if people sacrifice time and personal income for local people, I can see that people would feel they're pretty strong candidates for municipal office. We have a community store locally which is I think mostly run by LibDem and Labour volunteers - we are all shy of claiming any political credit, though, and I think it's difficult to know where to draw the line.
@Casino_Royale from last thread. Killing off the general discussion but on a separate note you seemed surprised that I thought I might be to the right of you on some things and asked for examples. Clearly it is difficult to give specifics without an in depth discussion but in general I get the impression you are a traditional Conservative, more along the lines of @HYUFD although not as traditional as him, whereas I am more along the lines of an Orange Booker. Although I have some humdinger arguments with @Philip_Thompson on many things my views are often in line with him, although maybe not quite as libertarian as him, I am very libertarian.
Have I judged that correctly?
I am often misjudged as being of the left because I attack the Conservatives often, but equally I don't support Labour. I have never voted Labour and I am 67 in a few weeks. I often feel traditional Conservatives come out with some staggering Socialist policies (not you, just in general).
Thanks. So, you're very free-market then I presume?
I consider myself to be a traditional shire Tory. I don't agree with anyone all of the time on anything but I think the poster on here that comes closest to my views is @Sean_F
Yep very free market and small state. Like Philip I would like to see a Universal Wage. I was a fan of this from the 90s when I first heard it put forward by a right wing think tank. That could eliminate most of the DWP and much of HMRC. Not a fan of BEIS either. Far to much interference in the marketplace. I would like to see more generic laws and much less specific laws on issues. I hate the government faffing around an issue with interference. If something should be run by the state (eg health and education) then do so, otherwise leave it to the market, with generic laws to protect the consumer from abuse.
I hate bureaucracy and state interference because they are useless at it, but accept it is needed, but as little as possible. Leave people to live their lives.
I am also very, very socially liberal.
I like SeanF a lot also, but I like the views of a range of people. I like TSE, Nigelb, IanB2, kinabalu etc so a wide selection across the spectrum
Does this come as a surprise? What did you think my views were? I won't be offended if you though I was a raving Socialist.
Thanks. Interesting.
It comes as a surprise because almost all the posts of yours I can recall relate to social issues, institutions and the nation state, and that is where the zeitgeist currently is in political debate and where I suspect we diverge.
Oh that is very interesting. I have no idea what you are referring to re social issues and institutions. What did you have in mind? I am not a fan of institutions generally and I think you are, but I would be surprised if we differed much on social issues. Can you elaborate please? This is very interesting.
Re nation state are you referring to my luke warm attachment to nations and my liking of the EU?
I have to say it comes as a surprise that is how I come across. I thought I would come across as an Orange Book liberal, but often our own perception are different to what others see.
I would love to know what @Philip_Thompson and @HYUFD think I am with whom I have had many discussions.
I think that you and I can be quite similar in a lot of ways, though I'd put you down as slightly to the left of me.
One very good thing I saw in the earlier days of being online was the website Political Compass, though it was rather US-dominated, that broke views down to left & right on the X-axis and on the Y-axis was libertarianism (down) and authoritarianism (up). I've always been firmly in the bottom-right quadrant, I'd guess you'd be similar but maybe marginally to the left?
Be curious if people wanted to take the test and see where their results are. I've just done it again and mine are: Economic Left/Right: 4.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
Alternatively. The USA likes to think it is a libertarian, individualist society. But when it comes to religion, sexual freedom and the raising of kids, it is actually hugely authoritarian in comparison with your average European. Hence Donald Trump.
I see Jacinda failed to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
She was considered hot favourite, in New Zealand.
Has she actually brought "peace" to somewhere?
God, no.
She did bring her infant to the UN though!
She’s brilliant at optics, excludes empathy, and made the correct call to close the borders before Covid could get to NZ.
Administratively she’s astonishingly crap, though the foreign media tend not to pick that up.
She made a good call for NZ, that was not available to the UK. No question it was the right thing in terms of saving NZ lives. There will be a tougher period as they open up, but not as tough as we've had for the last year and a half.
Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.49
Dunno about that tbh.
My views don’t easily map onto that compass. Eg, I’m pretty anti-porn, but also strongly pro-consenting adults doing whatever they want in private without the state getting involved. I don’t see a contradiction there.
I’d have myself as broadly centrist, with occasional strong leanings left/right & authoritarian/libertarian, depending on the question.
I see Jacinda failed to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
She was considered hot favourite, in New Zealand.
Has she actually brought "peace" to somewhere?
God, no.
She did bring her infant to the UN though!
She’s brilliant at optics, excludes empathy, and made the correct call to close the borders before Covid could get to NZ.
Administratively she’s astonishingly crap, though the foreign media tend not to pick that up.
She made a good call for NZ, that was not available to the UK. No question it was the right thing in terms of saving NZ lives. There will be a tougher period as they open up, but not as tough as we've had for the last year and a half.
But Nobel Prize? Pull the other one!
I presume her eligibility is because of her response to the ChCh massacre.
I still wouldn’t give her the peace prize, though.
Closest Match: Eco-Anarchism Eco-Anarchism, or Green Anarchism, is a form of anarchism that places a particular emphasis on environmental issues. It is often linked to more distinct ideologies such as Anarcho-Syndicalism. Eco-Anarchists are generally revolutionary and support using a decentralized egalitarian economy to achieve environmental goals.
Looking forward to @NerysHughes becoming Rashford's biggest fan now. -----------------------
Pretty decisive answer!
A friend in Austria tells me that a number of Social Democrat and Green municipal elections have been won recently by candidates noted for their personal efforts and contributions, topped by a Communist winning the mayoral election in Graz (the second-largest city), even though the party is on 0.1% nationally. Apparently she gives most of her council income to a local charity for people in difficulty and the party has built a reputation for being helpful with legal advice, food banks, etc.
Little problem with any of this - there's a small query about building popularity with money, but in the end if people sacrifice time and personal income for local people, I can see that people would feel they're pretty strong candidates for municipal office. We have a community store locally which is I think mostly run by LibDem and Labour volunteers - we are all shy of claiming any political credit, though, and I think it's difficult to know where to draw the line.
Rashford has not goven £20million of his own money to charity, the actual quote is "Rashford’s efforts triggered an estimated £20m of additional donations to the food poverty charity."
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Shortages mean things that are wanted, maybe vital, which previously happend, no longer happen. It means people no longer get the social care they had previously, businesses are dealing with shortages rather than productive work, employees are frustrated because they can't do their job properly. There isn't much of an upside.
"We could call it... the British Sausage..." as someone once said.
European Commission plans to offer a sausage clause allowing 'national identity goods' to enter Northern Ireland
Quite ingenious, if the headline is to be believed. National Identity goods won't leak significantly over the border, and it gives the UK what they asked for. While leaving the border round the Euro Single Market intact for the vast majority of goods.
Looking forward to @NerysHughes becoming Rashford's biggest fan now. -----------------------
Pretty decisive answer!
A friend in Austria tells me that a number of Social Democrat and Green municipal elections have been won recently by candidates noted for their personal efforts and contributions, topped by a Communist winning the mayoral election in Graz (the second-largest city), even though the party is on 0.1% nationally. Apparently she gives most of her council income to a local charity for people in difficulty and the party has built a reputation for being helpful with legal advice, food banks, etc.
Little problem with any of this - there's a small query about building popularity with money, but in the end if people sacrifice time and personal income for local people, I can see that people would feel they're pretty strong candidates for municipal office. We have a community store locally which is I think mostly run by LibDem and Labour volunteers - we are all shy of claiming any political credit, though, and I think it's difficult to know where to draw the line.
Rashford has not goven £20million of his own money to charity, the actual quote is "Rashford’s efforts triggered an estimated £20m of additional donations to the food poverty charity."
but a lot of it came from the fact he could provide publicity in return for the money the companies spent...
Speaking of Ardern, I think she’s fucked up on Covid suppression.
Elimination has failed, and Delta is now spreading. Her response is to loosen restrictions.
Vaccination rates are only “OK”.
It’s a very complex equation, as we know from our own experiences, but I think she’s loosened too early given the likely speed of vaccination from here.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Shortages mean things that are wanted, maybe vital, which previously happend, no longer happen. It means people no longer get the social care they had previously, businesses are dealing with shortages rather than productive work, employees are frustrated because they can't do their job properly. There isn't much of an upside.
That's because you're only looking at one side of the equation.
Shortage of labour raises the value and productivity of said labour, which raises their real wages and leads to real economic growth per capita.
The most productive businesses are able to affort the labour - the least productive businesses can't and die.
Creative destruction, its what leads to long term economic growth.
@Casino_Royale from last thread. Killing off the general discussion but on a separate note you seemed surprised that I thought I might be to the right of you on some things and asked for examples. Clearly it is difficult to give specifics without an in depth discussion but in general I get the impression you are a traditional Conservative, more along the lines of @HYUFD although not as traditional as him, whereas I am more along the lines of an Orange Booker. Although I have some humdinger arguments with @Philip_Thompson on many things my views are often in line with him, although maybe not quite as libertarian as him, I am very libertarian.
Have I judged that correctly?
I am often misjudged as being of the left because I attack the Conservatives often, but equally I don't support Labour. I have never voted Labour and I am 67 in a few weeks. I often feel traditional Conservatives come out with some staggering Socialist policies (not you, just in general).
Thanks. So, you're very free-market then I presume?
I consider myself to be a traditional shire Tory. I don't agree with anyone all of the time on anything but I think the poster on here that comes closest to my views is @Sean_F
Yep very free market and small state. Like Philip I would like to see a Universal Wage. I was a fan of this from the 90s when I first heard it put forward by a right wing think tank. That could eliminate most of the DWP and much of HMRC. Not a fan of BEIS either. Far to much interference in the marketplace. I would like to see more generic laws and much less specific laws on issues. I hate the government faffing around an issue with interference. If something should be run by the state (eg health and education) then do so, otherwise leave it to the market, with generic laws to protect the consumer from abuse.
I hate bureaucracy and state interference because they are useless at it, but accept it is needed, but as little as possible. Leave people to live their lives.
I am also very, very socially liberal.
I like SeanF a lot also, but I like the views of a range of people. I like TSE, Nigelb, IanB2, kinabalu etc so a wide selection across the spectrum
Does this come as a surprise? What did you think my views were? I won't be offended if you though I was a raving Socialist.
Thanks. Interesting.
It comes as a surprise because almost all the posts of yours I can recall relate to social issues, institutions and the nation state, and that is where the zeitgeist currently is in political debate and where I suspect we diverge.
Oh that is very interesting. I have no idea what you are referring to re social issues and institutions. What did you have in mind? I am not a fan of institutions generally and I think you are, but I would be surprised if we differed much on social issues. Can you elaborate please? This is very interesting.
Re nation state are you referring to my luke warm attachment to nations and my liking of the EU?
I have to say it comes as a surprise that is how I come across. I thought I would come across as an Orange Book liberal, but often our own perception are different to what others see.
I would love to know what @Philip_Thompson and @HYUFD think I am with whom I have had many discussions.
I think that you and I can be quite similar in a lot of ways, though I'd put you down as slightly to the left of me.
One very good thing I saw in the earlier days of being online was the website Political Compass, though it was rather US-dominated, that broke views down to left & right on the X-axis and on the Y-axis was libertarianism (down) and authoritarianism (up). I've always been firmly in the bottom-right quadrant, I'd guess you'd be similar but maybe marginally to the left?
Be curious if people wanted to take the test and see where their results are. I've just done it again and mine are: Economic Left/Right: 4.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18
So, don't give me any more of your "I'm a libertarian" stuff, you authoritarian
I'm a lot more left on that scale than I expected. And maybe more libertarian. There were several questions here I would have chosen 'neither agree or disagree' had it been an option - if they were I'd maybe be more towards the centre on both scales.
-3.0, -4.97 for me. But a large part of that is that I parsed the questions that I could easily have answered differently, based solely on the wording of each question not my beliefs, in a particular way. I might try it again using a different rule of thumb on how to address those ambiguities. But I suspect it would shift me somewhat to the right economically, and somewhat more libertarian.
That said, while I see myself as on the right economically, and as a natural libertarian who admits that increasing externalities in a ever more crowded world limit how libertarian a society can truly be, I'll happily accept this characterization of my political coordinates.
@Casino_Royale from last thread. Killing off the general discussion but on a separate note you seemed surprised that I thought I might be to the right of you on some things and asked for examples. Clearly it is difficult to give specifics without an in depth discussion but in general I get the impression you are a traditional Conservative, more along the lines of @HYUFD although not as traditional as him, whereas I am more along the lines of an Orange Booker. Although I have some humdinger arguments with @Philip_Thompson on many things my views are often in line with him, although maybe not quite as libertarian as him, I am very libertarian.
Have I judged that correctly?
I am often misjudged as being of the left because I attack the Conservatives often, but equally I don't support Labour. I have never voted Labour and I am 67 in a few weeks. I often feel traditional Conservatives come out with some staggering Socialist policies (not you, just in general).
Thanks. So, you're very free-market then I presume?
I consider myself to be a traditional shire Tory. I don't agree with anyone all of the time on anything but I think the poster on here that comes closest to my views is @Sean_F
Yep very free market and small state. Like Philip I would like to see a Universal Wage. I was a fan of this from the 90s when I first heard it put forward by a right wing think tank. That could eliminate most of the DWP and much of HMRC. Not a fan of BEIS either. Far to much interference in the marketplace. I would like to see more generic laws and much less specific laws on issues. I hate the government faffing around an issue with interference. If something should be run by the state (eg health and education) then do so, otherwise leave it to the market, with generic laws to protect the consumer from abuse.
I hate bureaucracy and state interference because they are useless at it, but accept it is needed, but as little as possible. Leave people to live their lives.
I am also very, very socially liberal.
I like SeanF a lot also, but I like the views of a range of people. I like TSE, Nigelb, IanB2, kinabalu etc so a wide selection across the spectrum
Does this come as a surprise? What did you think my views were? I won't be offended if you though I was a raving Socialist.
Thanks. Interesting.
It comes as a surprise because almost all the posts of yours I can recall relate to social issues, institutions and the nation state, and that is where the zeitgeist currently is in political debate and where I suspect we diverge.
Oh that is very interesting. I have no idea what you are referring to re social issues and institutions. What did you have in mind? I am not a fan of institutions generally and I think you are, but I would be surprised if we differed much on social issues. Can you elaborate please? This is very interesting.
Re nation state are you referring to my luke warm attachment to nations and my liking of the EU?
I have to say it comes as a surprise that is how I come across. I thought I would come across as an Orange Book liberal, but often our own perception are different to what others see.
I would love to know what @Philip_Thompson and @HYUFD think I am with whom I have had many discussions.
I think that you and I can be quite similar in a lot of ways, though I'd put you down as slightly to the left of me.
One very good thing I saw in the earlier days of being online was the website Political Compass, though it was rather US-dominated, that broke views down to left & right on the X-axis and on the Y-axis was libertarianism (down) and authoritarianism (up). I've always been firmly in the bottom-right quadrant, I'd guess you'd be similar but maybe marginally to the left?
Be curious if people wanted to take the test and see where their results are. I've just done it again and mine are: Economic Left/Right: 4.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18
So, don't give me any more of your "I'm a libertarian" stuff, you authoritarian
I'm a lot more left on that scale than I expected. And maybe more libertarian. There were several questions here I would have chosen 'neither agree or disagree' had it been an option - if they were I'd maybe be more towards the centre on both scales.
I'm more libertarian than PT, too. Well, well. Though rather more to the left. My views seem to have changed even more as I grow still older.
I'm sure you (and I) are about to hit the 'I'm old enough to be a Unionist now' wall any day. Signs may include the name 'Nippy' creeping into conversation, deliberately picking out the UJ emblazoned foodstuffs at Morrisons and humming the R4 UK theme under one's breath.
It's striking that contrary to the myth on PB the SNP is a lot less authoritarian than almost anyone else - almost perfectly centrist. And there is an interesting contrast also between Labour and Slab at Holyrood: you can really see Messrs/Mdmes Sarwar and Baillie trying to be Tory lite (as are the LDs, too, tbf). Though the Tories swing inland themselves. The SNP hardly budge, and the SGs are rather more mainstream than the UK Greens.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
Alternatively. The USA likes to think it is a libertarian, individualist society. But when it comes to religion, sexual freedom and the raising of kids, it is actually hugely authoritarian in comparison with your average European. Hence Donald Trump.
True. And try buying a beer when you're 18 or a Cuban cigar at any age.
Also they don't only have stricter rules in many areas, but they are much stricter about enforcing them. Anal city police everywhere. And they have signs everywhere promising ridiculously disproportionate penalties for trivialities.
Speaking of Ardern, I think she’s fucked up on Covid suppression.
Elimination has failed, and Delta is now spreading. Her response is to loosen restrictions.
Vaccination rates are only “OK”.
It’s a very complex equation, as we know from our own experiences, but I think she’s loosened too early given the likely speed of vaccination from here.
A large part of the North Island has gone into tougher lockdown measures because 1 woman with Covid went there. There's been more Covid in my house in the last week than that part of NZ. When are NZ going to be able to adapt away from their instant reaction being to impose lockdowns?
Closest Match: Eco-Anarchism Eco-Anarchism, or Green Anarchism, is a form of anarchism that places a particular emphasis on environmental issues. It is often linked to more distinct ideologies such as Anarcho-Syndicalism. Eco-Anarchists are generally revolutionary and support using a decentralized egalitarian economy to achieve environmental goals.
It works...
Those with a higher scientific score tend to support or sympathize with the Marxist analysis of society along the lines of dialectical materialism
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Hey PT, the GDR is on the phone and want their economic policies back.
Of course, scarcity itself, just like wealth, is a relative term. Food shortages in the UK now probably means something very different from food shortages in China during the Cultural Revolution. Or for anyone but the richest in most of history for most countries.
The old World Service one would have been more appropriate.
Lillibullero? It would certainly remind me of adolescence and interspersing Luxembourg with the World Service into the wee small hours. I guess I did feel fairly neutral about the Union then.
As a student I used to enjoy seeking out exotic stations on the shortwave (I went to Lampeter so we had to make our own fun). Radio Tirana’s Stalinist tractor factory statistics content was a favourite of mine.
Not the shipping forecast on Radio 4? I am disappointed.
Funnily enough, trying to call to mind the World Service jingle just brings the Archers theme tune to mind.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
Alternatively. The USA likes to think it is a libertarian, individualist society. But when it comes to religion, sexual freedom and the raising of kids, it is actually hugely authoritarian in comparison with your average European. Hence Donald Trump.
Depends on average yes but European nations like Poland and Hungary and even Italy are more socially conservative than the average US state, in none of those 3 nations is gay marriage legal yet unlike the US for example and in Poland abortion is still illegal except in the case of rape and to save the mother's life. States like Massachusetts and Vermont are also probably more liberal on some issues than most of Europe and certainly the North East and West coast states are closer to Europe on social issues than they are to Texas and most of the US South.
Ecconomically Switzerland spends less and taxes less than the US and most US states, even though overall Europe spends and taxes more than America does, though of course Switzerland is not part of the EU.
Not wholly surprised but many of the questions are totally ridiculous and some of them impossible to answer for someone like me who often wishes to disengage entirely from the nonsenses I see around me. I'd like to dismantle most of the capitalist market in which we are forced to live.
Marcus Rashford has not given £20m to charity. A campaign he fronted raised £20m. Good for him - but not the same as article you posted
Tesco gave £15m, Asda £2.5m, CO-op £1.5m of that £20m.
As Marcus said in the article linked “I put in a bit of money and the number was £50,000” - implies he gave less than £50,000 although not clear exactly what
Looking at everyone's score on the Libertarian/Authoritarian axis, I guess being a posting member of PB self-selects for those who question authority ...
Speaking of Ardern, I think she’s fucked up on Covid suppression.
Elimination has failed, and Delta is now spreading. Her response is to loosen restrictions.
Vaccination rates are only “OK”.
It’s a very complex equation, as we know from our own experiences, but I think she’s loosened too early given the likely speed of vaccination from here.
A large part of the North Island has gone into tougher lockdown measures because 1 woman with Covid went there. There's been more Covid in my house in the last week than that part of NZ. When are NZ going to be able to adapt away from their instant reaction being to impose lockdowns?
On one hand they have broadened lockdown to Northland because one lady travelled there, on the other Auckland - reporting 30 or 40 cases per day - are getting ready to send the kids back to school.
Delta is going to absolutely rip through Auckland.
One possible reason to be extra draconian in Northland is because it has a high rural Maori population and their vax rates are very low.
But it’s becoming hard to see the science behind the policy.
Marcus Rashford has not given £20m to charity. A campaign he fronted raised £20m. Good for him - but not the same as article you posted
Tesco gave £15m, Asda £2.5m, CO-op £1.5m of that £20m.
As Marcus said in the article linked “I put in a bit of money and the number was £50,000” - implies he gave less than £50,000 although not clear exactly what
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
I am, unsurprisingly, strongly left, liberal and internationalist.
Yep but there's a good example of the stupidity of the questions. I loathe nationalism in all its forms. Along with religion it's the projection most responsible for the evils of the world. So how am I supposed to answer the question:
'Young people today still have respect for traditional British values'?
I have no connection with this spurious nonsense called 'traditional British values' so the question is impossible.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
Closest Match: Eco-Anarchism Eco-Anarchism, or Green Anarchism, is a form of anarchism that places a particular emphasis on environmental issues. It is often linked to more distinct ideologies such as Anarcho-Syndicalism. Eco-Anarchists are generally revolutionary and support using a decentralized egalitarian economy to achieve environmental goals.
It works...
It describes me as a Democratic Socialist, but the close runner up is Market Anarchist, which I think a better match.
It does seem to presume Socialism is a good thing.
Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -1.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05
I've always hovered around the mid-point on "left/right" - this iteration slightly to the left of before, and consistently been libertarian.
For me
Economic Left/Right: -2.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
Usually I expect to be a bit more right wing, economically.
For me.
Economic Left/Right: -5.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.64
I think a lot of the questions get very different answers in different countries. I don't think many countries fall in the bottom left corner.
Scandinavians would tend to the bottom left, like me (which is maybe why I'm what I am), even though they are mostly organised on a regulated private enterprise model. Egalitarianism is widespread as a general philosophy and they are mostly genuinely baffled by hardcore conservative atittudes about sex.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Shortages mean things that are wanted, maybe vital, which previously happend, no longer happen. It means people no longer get the social care they had previously, businesses are dealing with shortages rather than productive work, employees are frustrated because they can't do their job properly. There isn't much of an upside.
That's because you're only looking at one side of the equation.
Shortage of labour raises the value and productivity of said labour, which raises their real wages and leads to real economic growth per capita.
The most productive businesses are able to affort the labour - the least productive businesses can't and die.
Creative destruction, its what leads to long term economic growth.
Labour shortage doesn't increase productivity or real wages. Consumers (all of us) are losers while some producers are winners and some are losers. All things being equal, winners and losers roughly balance out. Things aren't equal because shortages are bad in themselves, as I have said.
Marcus Rashford has not given £20m to charity. A campaign he fronted raised £20m. Good for him - but not the same as article you posted
Tesco gave £15m, Asda £2.5m, CO-op £1.5m of that £20m.
As Marcus said in the article linked “I put in a bit of money and the number was £50,000” - implies he gave less than £50,000 although not clear exactly what
Marcus Rashford has not given £20m to charity. A campaign he fronted raised £20m. Good for him - but not the same as article you posted
Tesco gave £15m, Asda £2.5m, CO-op £1.5m of that £20m.
As Marcus said in the article linked “I put in a bit of money and the number was £50,000” - implies he gave less than £50,000 although not clear exactly what
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Shortages mean things that are wanted, maybe vital, which previously happend, no longer happen. It means people no longer get the social care they had previously, businesses are dealing with shortages rather than productive work, employees are frustrated because they can't do their job properly. There isn't much of an upside.
That's because you're only looking at one side of the equation.
Shortage of labour raises the value and productivity of said labour, which raises their real wages and leads to real economic growth per capita.
The most productive businesses are able to affort the labour - the least productive businesses can't and die.
Creative destruction, its what leads to long term economic growth.
Labour shortage doesn't increase productivity or real wages. Consumers (all of us) are losers while some producers are winners and some are losers. All things being equal, winners and losers roughly balance out. Things aren't equal because shortages are bad in themselves, as I have said.
Not true. The losers are the companies who go out of business because they can't find labour - but those businesses will be the least productive, least-efficient businesses that we had. So by them going out of business we raise our overall productivity and income per capita.
Or businesses face up to the shortage and invest in productivity improvements so they don't have to go out of business, which boosts productivity, which raises our overall productivity and income per capita.
Marcus Rashford has not given £20m to charity. A campaign he fronted raised £20m. Good for him - but not the same as article you posted
Tesco gave £15m, Asda £2.5m, CO-op £1.5m of that £20m.
As Marcus said in the article linked “I put in a bit of money and the number was £50,000” - implies he gave less than £50,000 although not clear exactly what
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
Eek Twin B cannot be a landlord while working for the Valuation Office as that gives them access to market sensitive data - although I'm at a complete loss as to what information she could have that you wouldn't get from 5 minutes on rightmove and 30 seconds talking to a local estate agent..
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
Closest Match: Eco-Anarchism Eco-Anarchism, or Green Anarchism, is a form of anarchism that places a particular emphasis on environmental issues. It is often linked to more distinct ideologies such as Anarcho-Syndicalism. Eco-Anarchists are generally revolutionary and support using a decentralized egalitarian economy to achieve environmental goals.
It works...
Some hoots:
The fact that so many workers vote for bourgeois parties over socialist parties is proof that party politics are no longer relevant.
And it thinks I might be:
Closest Match: Utopian Socialism Utopian Socialism is a form of pre-Marxist socialism that believes highly in an egalitarian, moralistic and idealistic foundation for a socialist society. Utopian Socialists generally reject violent revolution and often believe the ruling class can be convinced to adopt socialism.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
I am, unsurprisingly, strongly left, liberal and internationalist.
Yep but there's a good example of the stupidity of the questions. I loathe nationalism in all its forms. Along with religion it's the projection most responsible for the evils of the world. So how am I supposed to answer the question:
'Young people today still have respect for traditional British values'?
I have no connection with this spurious nonsense called 'traditional British values' so the question is impossible.
tBv is an odd one, quite often code for "immigrant muslims don't have our traditional tolerance of gay people", which is an eye opener as to how quickly something can become traditional.
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
I am, unsurprisingly, strongly left, liberal and internationalist.
Your Economic position is 73° Right, your National position is 9° National, and your Social position is 71° Liberal.
You are economically strongly right-wing, nationally moderate, and strongly socially liberal.
I'm surprised to be so moderate on national v global issues. I suppose that's because I'm quite pro-immigration.
PT, you are mistaken. You can't be pro-immigration and be pro-Brexit. The Remoaners have told us time and time again that this is not possible.
PT is mistaken, since he spends half his time lauding the supposed productivity improvements ensuing from reduced immigration.
He should pick a side.
It *was* possible to be pro-Brexit, pro-immigration. That side lost though, thanks first to Theresa May and then to the unholy Boris/Spartan alliance.
Yep - the thing that swung my vote to leave was the idea that we could leave the EU to get on with their politics while we kept the economic benefits from free access to the market.
I think the things we can deduce from that survey is that Americans think we are all a bunch of commie hippies.
Even you HYUFD.
Apart from Fishing and Richard Tyndall who are clearly Grover Norquist style small staters.
Though I did come across as fractionally socially conservative
Yes I was just having a bit of fun for the likes. I was surprised I was to the left economically but I suspect that is because of the American bias. Although I consider myself very liberal socially I was surprised to be at the extreme here compared to everyone else. I expect posters here to be more liberal socially than society as a whole.
Did you see I asked you a question earlier today? Would be interested in your feedback, although it may have been overtaken by this survey now.
Just so everyone knows Hugo Guy is a grauniad journalist who will pick any crum of comfort that is bad for the Tories. These bloody lefty Eton types....
crumb.
Hugo Gye?
None of this makes any sense to me. Care to try again?
Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
People would be better off using the 3-D version on Electoral Calculus.
I am, unsurprisingly, strongly left, liberal and internationalist.
Your Economic position is 73° Right, your National position is 9° National, and your Social position is 71° Liberal.
You are economically strongly right-wing, nationally moderate, and strongly socially liberal.
I'm surprised to be so moderate on national v global issues. I suppose that's because I'm quite pro-immigration.
PT, you are mistaken. You can't be pro-immigration and be pro-Brexit. The Remoaners have told us time and time again that this is not possible.
PT is mistaken, since he spends half his time lauding the supposed productivity improvements ensuing from reduced immigration.
He should pick a side.
It *was* possible to be pro-Brexit, pro-immigration. That side lost though, thanks first to Theresa May and then to the unholy Boris/Spartan alliance.
I have a side. I'm pro high skilled immigration. I'm anti immigration of minimum wage employees claiming tax credits and housing allowance.
If we could have the same number (or even higher) net immigration, but all the migrants are high skilled, high wage migrants, then that would boost our productivity and economy far more.
I support an "Australian Style Points Immigration System" which is quite literally Australia-style - Australia has higher net immigration proportionately than we do. I'd be entirely OK with seeing our net immigration go up on the twin proviso that construction goes up accordingly, and that the new migrants are not claiming universal credit, housing allowance etc and are paying taxes.
The University of Hong Kong has demanded the Pillar of Shame sculpture be removed by Oct 13 at 5 pm. The sculpture, by Danish artist Jens Galschiot, was erected in remembrance of the 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre, which killed scores of demonstrators in Beijing.
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Shortages mean things that are wanted, maybe vital, which previously happend, no longer happen. It means people no longer get the social care they had previously, businesses are dealing with shortages rather than productive work, employees are frustrated because they can't do their job properly. There isn't much of an upside.
That's because you're only looking at one side of the equation.
Shortage of labour raises the value and productivity of said labour, which raises their real wages and leads to real economic growth per capita.
The most productive businesses are able to affort the labour - the least productive businesses can't and die.
Creative destruction, its what leads to long term economic growth.
Labour shortage doesn't increase productivity or real wages. Consumers (all of us) are losers while some producers are winners and some are losers. All things being equal, winners and losers roughly balance out. Things aren't equal because shortages are bad in themselves, as I have said.
Not true. The losers are the companies who go out of business because they can't find labour - but those businesses will be the least productive, least-efficient businesses that we had. So by them going out of business we raise our overall productivity and income per capita.
Or businesses face up to the shortage and invest in productivity improvements so they don't have to go out of business, which boosts productivity, which raises our overall productivity and income per capita.
Either way, we win.
I think I detect a few flaws in your logic: businesses' relocating abroad because staying in the UK isn't cost effective; customers' turning to suppliers abroad because UK suppliers have been undercut. That's just for starters. Your pronouncements would have been outdated in the middle ages.
@Casino_Royale from last thread. Killing off the general discussion but on a separate note you seemed surprised that I thought I might be to the right of you on some things and asked for examples. Clearly it is difficult to give specifics without an in depth discussion but in general I get the impression you are a traditional Conservative, more along the lines of @HYUFD although not as traditional as him, whereas I am more along the lines of an Orange Booker. Although I have some humdinger arguments with @Philip_Thompson on many things my views are often in line with him, although maybe not quite as libertarian as him, I am very libertarian.
Have I judged that correctly?
I am often misjudged as being of the left because I attack the Conservatives often, but equally I don't support Labour. I have never voted Labour and I am 67 in a few weeks. I often feel traditional Conservatives come out with some staggering Socialist policies (not you, just in general).
Thanks. So, you're very free-market then I presume?
I consider myself to be a traditional shire Tory. I don't agree with anyone all of the time on anything but I think the poster on here that comes closest to my views is @Sean_F
Yep very free market and small state. Like Philip I would like to see a Universal Wage. I was a fan of this from the 90s when I first heard it put forward by a right wing think tank. That could eliminate most of the DWP and much of HMRC. Not a fan of BEIS either. Far to much interference in the marketplace. I would like to see more generic laws and much less specific laws on issues. I hate the government faffing around an issue with interference. If something should be run by the state (eg health and education) then do so, otherwise leave it to the market, with generic laws to protect the consumer from abuse.
I hate bureaucracy and state interference because they are useless at it, but accept it is needed, but as little as possible. Leave people to live their lives.
I am also very, very socially liberal.
I like SeanF a lot also, but I like the views of a range of people. I like TSE, Nigelb, IanB2, kinabalu etc so a wide selection across the spectrum
Does this come as a surprise? What did you think my views were? I won't be offended if you though I was a raving Socialist.
Thanks. Interesting.
It comes as a surprise because almost all the posts of yours I can recall relate to social issues, institutions and the nation state, and that is where the zeitgeist currently is in political debate and where I suspect we diverge.
Oh that is very interesting. I have no idea what you are referring to re social issues and institutions. What did you have in mind? I am not a fan of institutions generally and I think you are, but I would be surprised if we differed much on social issues. Can you elaborate please? This is very interesting.
Re nation state are you referring to my luke warm attachment to nations and my liking of the EU?
I have to say it comes as a surprise that is how I come across. I thought I would come across as an Orange Book liberal, but often our own perception are different to what others see.
I would love to know what @Philip_Thompson and @HYUFD think I am with whom I have had many discussions.
I think that you and I can be quite similar in a lot of ways, though I'd put you down as slightly to the left of me.
One very good thing I saw in the earlier days of being online was the website Political Compass, though it was rather US-dominated, that broke views down to left & right on the X-axis and on the Y-axis was libertarianism (down) and authoritarianism (up). I've always been firmly in the bottom-right quadrant, I'd guess you'd be similar but maybe marginally to the left?
Be curious if people wanted to take the test and see where their results are. I've just done it again and mine are: Economic Left/Right: 4.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18
So, don't give me any more of your "I'm a libertarian" stuff, you authoritarian
I'm a lot more left on that scale than I expected. And maybe more libertarian. There were several questions here I would have chosen 'neither agree or disagree' had it been an option - if they were I'd maybe be more towards the centre on both scales.
I'm more libertarian than PT, too. Well, well. Though rather more to the left. My views seem to have changed even more as I grow still older.
I'm sure you (and I) are about to hit the 'I'm old enough to be a Unionist now' wall any day. Signs may include the name 'Nippy' creeping into conversation, deliberately picking out the UJ emblazoned foodstuffs at Morrisons and humming the R4 UK theme under one's breath.
It's striking that contrary to the myth on PB the SNP is a lot less authoritarian than almost anyone else - almost perfectly centrist. And there is an interesting contrast also between Labour and Slab at Holyrood: you can really see Messrs/Mdmes Sarwar and Baillie trying to be Tory lite (as are the LDs, too, tbf). Though the Tories swing inland themselves. The SNP hardly budge, and the SGs are rather more mainstream than the UK Greens.
Dullish centrists is unfortunately a fair description, fortunately that still means left of any of the main contenders. We all have a tendency to mythologise our opponents failings but the stories Yoons tell themselves about the SNP & Scotland are pretty self defeatingly hilarious. The tourists might have a minimal excuse but they seem terribly reluctant to admit that they may not be fully cognizant of the facts (aka experts).
Banana republic One party state Police state Authoritarian dictatorship Woke Marxist Socialist Fascist etc
I wonder if that's a factor in their parties' dire performances? If you're perpetually trying to defeat some other boogie man enemy rather than the one in front of you..
Mid term polls bear no relation whatsoever to subsequent general election results.
Indeed. In April 2017 TMay's Tories had a 25% polling lead which was almost frittered away by polling day.
Lets hope and pray that history repeats itself. One of the most distasteful things I find with Tory politicians is that immigrants to this country and the sons and daughters of immigrants are viscerally anti immigration. It feeds the notion of the Tories being the nasty Party. I'm all right Jack is a very unpleasant look....
Priti Patel should should be ashamed
Are you judging Patel differently because of her ethnicity and background?
There's a word for that.
I am judging her as an anti immigrant Home Secretary who is the daughter of immigrants. My Great Grandparents arrived here at the turn of the last century and if I heard that they or their children fought tooth and claw to keep others from arriving I would be disgusted. But I'm not a Tory
If you accept that there is an argument against unlimited immigration (I'm not sure that you personally do accept this) then why does it matter who makes it? Those with the most to lose from immigration are often the most recently settled wave of immigrants - those without much in the way of assets and who are dependent on selling their labour, the value of which is driven down by the arrival of a new source of labour.
I would say the government policy makes sense if you think immigration is bad, at least at previous levels. But the argument that limiting immigration improves productivity - to allow wages to increase in real terms - isn't backed by the evidence. Probably the opposite. And shortages are just bad. You just can't spin this*
* Johnson is of course spinning this.
Of course you can spin shortages as being a good thing. Indeed I believe it.
Economics is ultimately all about the productive use of scarce resources. Shortages are a show of scarcity and allows even more productive use.
If resources weren't scarce, there'd never be any shortages, but nor would we have any need for economics.
Shortages mean things that are wanted, maybe vital, which previously happend, no longer happen. It means people no longer get the social care they had previously, businesses are dealing with shortages rather than productive work, employees are frustrated because they can't do their job properly. There isn't much of an upside.
That's because you're only looking at one side of the equation.
Shortage of labour raises the value and productivity of said labour, which raises their real wages and leads to real economic growth per capita.
The most productive businesses are able to affort the labour - the least productive businesses can't and die.
Creative destruction, its what leads to long term economic growth.
Labour shortage doesn't increase productivity or real wages. Consumers (all of us) are losers while some producers are winners and some are losers. All things being equal, winners and losers roughly balance out. Things aren't equal because shortages are bad in themselves, as I have said.
Not true. The losers are the companies who go out of business because they can't find labour - but those businesses will be the least productive, least-efficient businesses that we had. So by them going out of business we raise our overall productivity and income per capita.
Or businesses face up to the shortage and invest in productivity improvements so they don't have to go out of business, which boosts productivity, which raises our overall productivity and income per capita.
Either way, we win.
I think I detect a few flaws in your logic: businesses' relocating abroad because staying in the UK isn't cost effective; customers' turning to suppliers abroad because UK suppliers have been undercut. That's just for starters. Your pronouncements would have been outdated in the middle ages.
If the businesses that are less productive, less efficient and less competitive that we have a competitive disadvantage in relocate abroad then that is a good thing.
Ricardian economics, we should do what we have a competitive advantage in - and import that which we have a competitive disadvantage in.
Your anti-import, anti-abroad mercantilism would have been quite appropriate in the middle ages. But we've moved on from then, try and catch up.
Comments
Would that be counted as a lung cancer, colon cancer or both death? Genuine question. I presume colon, but I don't know.
@JuliaHB1
·
59m
This is heartbreaking news. James Brokenshire was, quite simply, one of the good guys. My condolences to his family and friends.
The policy is right or wrong, it's not right or wrong depending on the politician.
The current shortages are extremely minor and the capitalist market economy will sort them out PDQ in the most productive and efficient way possible.
Two completely polar opposites.
And indeed something to consider if we propose to replace EU migration with non-EU migration.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05
I've always hovered around the mid-point on "left/right" - this iteration slightly to the left of before, and consistently been libertarian.
Am not the hippiest on PB!
Chapeau, man.
It is interesting that I have drifted more centrist economically over the years but not moved at all really on the Libertarianism.
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian +0.56
Most PBers lean economically right but socially liberal.
Political Compass does generally tend to get left liberal results though in my experience because of the questions asked
https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1446439549807349804?s=20
(Not my shouting...)
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.0
But I think it's skewed to make people look left and lib. Some of the questions are not that far off "white people should be allowed to trade black people freely on the open market," and quite a lot of the people who think that know that you aren't meant to say it.
Fair weather PR supporters are numerous.
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.26
I thought I'd be socially more libertarian than that. But some of the questions were phrased a little oddly I thought, as often in tests like this.
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.85
I'm surprised at that as economically I'm very much business friendly - but I suspect I'm answering a few of those questions with a European rather than American viewpoint / bias which will swing me to the left.
I tend to think of myself economically right and socially liberal. However, it seems I'm a lot less liberal than many of you here and also a lot less right-wing than I thought! I tend to agree that this particularly seems to skew more to the left.
A good friend of mine, former neighbour and former science teacher when I was at school died of CUP (Cancer of unknown Primary) and I was surprised to find how much such diagnosis limits the ability of the doctors to treat it.
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.1
I thought that I would be more economically right wing.
LostPassword said:
» show previous quotes
First result on Google: Rashford has given £20m to charity.
https://www.givemesport.com/1725339-marcus-rashford-man-utd-star-has-donated-125-of-his-personal-wealth-to-charities
Looking forward to @NerysHughes becoming Rashford's biggest fan now.
-----------------------
Pretty decisive answer!
A friend in Austria tells me that a number of Social Democrat and Green municipal elections have been won recently by candidates noted for their personal efforts and contributions, topped by a Communist winning the mayoral election in Graz (the second-largest city), even though the party is on 0.1% nationally. Apparently she gives most of her council income to a local charity for people in difficulty and the party has built a reputation for being helpful with legal advice, food banks, etc.
Little problem with any of this - there's a small query about building popularity with money, but in the end if people sacrifice time and personal income for local people, I can see that people would feel they're pretty strong candidates for municipal office. We have a community store locally which is I think mostly run by LibDem and Labour volunteers - we are all shy of claiming any political credit, though, and I think it's difficult to know where to draw the line.
The USA likes to think it is a libertarian, individualist society. But when it comes to religion, sexual freedom and the raising of kids, it is actually hugely authoritarian in comparison with your average European.
Hence Donald Trump.
But Nobel Prize? Pull the other one!
Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
Usually I expect to be a bit more right wing, economically.
Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.49
Dunno about that tbh.
My views don’t easily map onto that compass. Eg, I’m pretty anti-porn, but also strongly pro-consenting adults doing whatever they want in private without the state getting involved. I don’t see a contradiction there.
I’d have myself as broadly centrist, with occasional strong leanings left/right & authoritarian/libertarian, depending on the question.
I still wouldn’t give her the peace prize, though.
This thing is much better: https://leftvalues.github.io/
Closest Match: Eco-Anarchism
Eco-Anarchism, or Green Anarchism, is a form of anarchism that places a particular emphasis on environmental issues. It is often linked to more distinct ideologies such as Anarcho-Syndicalism. Eco-Anarchists are generally revolutionary and support using a decentralized egalitarian economy to achieve environmental goals.
It works...
European Commission plans to offer a sausage clause allowing 'national identity goods' to enter Northern Ireland
Quite ingenious, if the headline is to be believed. National Identity goods won't leak significantly over the border, and it gives the UK what they asked for. While leaving the border round the Euro Single Market intact for the vast majority of goods.
Elimination has failed, and Delta is now spreading. Her response is to loosen restrictions.
Vaccination rates are only “OK”.
It’s a very complex equation, as we know from our own experiences, but I think she’s loosened too early given the likely speed of vaccination from here.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/survey3d.html
I am, unsurprisingly, strongly left, liberal and internationalist.
Shortage of labour raises the value and productivity of said labour, which raises their real wages and leads to real economic growth per capita.
The most productive businesses are able to affort the labour - the least productive businesses can't and die.
Creative destruction, its what leads to long term economic growth.
Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31
That said, while I see myself as on the right economically, and as a natural libertarian who admits that increasing externalities in a ever more crowded world limit how libertarian a society can truly be, I'll happily accept this characterization of my political coordinates.
Economic Left/Right: -8.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31
Libertarian red, as it says on my tin.
Economic Left/Right: -5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.64
I think a lot of the questions get very different answers in different countries. I don't think many countries fall in the bottom left corner.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
https://www.politicalcompass.org/scotland2021
Also they don't only have stricter rules in many areas, but they are much stricter about enforcing them. Anal city police everywhere. And they have signs everywhere promising ridiculously disproportionate penalties for trivialities.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-alert-level-3-for-northland-after-auckland-woman-with-covid-visited-region/I6BEZVBJGSMDCSMWHOP4FSVCO4/
Those with a higher scientific score tend to support or sympathize with the Marxist analysis of society along the lines of dialectical materialism
Really?
Even you HYUFD.
Funnily enough, trying to call to mind the World Service jingle just brings the Archers theme tune to mind.
Ecconomically Switzerland spends less and taxes less than the US and most US states, even though overall Europe spends and taxes more than America does, though of course Switzerland is not part of the EU.
Libertarian/Authoritarian - 8.67
So I'm a left-wing radical libertarian
Not wholly surprised but many of the questions are totally ridiculous and some of them impossible to answer for someone like me who often wishes to disengage entirely from the nonsenses I see around me. I'd like to dismantle most of the capitalist market in which we are forced to live.
Marcus Rashford has not given £20m to charity. A campaign he fronted raised £20m. Good for him - but not the same as article you posted
Tesco gave £15m, Asda £2.5m, CO-op £1.5m of that £20m.
As Marcus said in the article linked “I put in a bit of money and the number was £50,000” - implies he gave less than £50,000 although not clear exactly what
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/marcus-rashford-charity-donate-food-children-fareshare-man-utd-a9475846.html
On one hand they have broadened lockdown to Northland because one lady travelled there, on the other Auckland - reporting 30 or 40 cases per day - are getting ready to send the kids back to school.
Delta is going to absolutely rip through Auckland.
One possible reason to be extra draconian in Northland is because it has a high rural Maori population and their vax rates are very low.
But it’s becoming hard to see the science behind the policy.
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82
'Young people today still have respect for traditional British values'?
I have no connection with this spurious nonsense called 'traditional British values' so the question is impossible.
Though I did come across as fractionally socially conservative
You are economically strongly right-wing, nationally moderate, and strongly socially liberal.
I'm surprised to be so moderate on national v global issues. I suppose that's because I'm quite pro-immigration.
It does seem to presume Socialism is a good thing.
Key Axis Position Description:
Economic 100° Left very strongly left-wing
National 100° International very strongly globalist
Social 100° Liberal very strongly socially liberal
That'll do me just fine
Or businesses face up to the shortage and invest in productivity improvements so they don't have to go out of business, which boosts productivity, which raises our overall productivity and income per capita.
Either way, we win.
Eek Twin B cannot be a landlord while working for the Valuation Office as that gives them access to market sensitive data - although I'm at a complete loss as to what information she could have that you wouldn't get from 5 minutes on rightmove and 30 seconds talking to a local estate agent..
He should pick a side.
It *was* possible to be pro-Brexit, pro-immigration. That side lost though, thanks first to Theresa May and then to the unholy Boris/Spartan alliance.
The fact that so many workers vote for bourgeois parties over socialist parties is proof that party politics are no longer relevant.
And it thinks I might be:
Closest Match: Utopian Socialism
Utopian Socialism is a form of pre-Marxist socialism that believes highly in an egalitarian, moralistic and idealistic foundation for a socialist society. Utopian Socialists generally reject violent revolution and often believe the ruling class can be convinced to adopt socialism.
edit
National 75° International very strongly globalist
Social 93° Liberal very strongly socially liberal
I don't think that I am as left wing as that!
Economic Left/Right: -3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97
Did you see I asked you a question earlier today? Would be interested in your feedback, although it may have been overtaken by this survey now.
Hugo Gye?
None of this makes any sense to me. Care to try again?
If we could have the same number (or even higher) net immigration, but all the migrants are high skilled, high wage migrants, then that would boost our productivity and economy far more.
I support an "Australian Style Points Immigration System" which is quite literally Australia-style - Australia has higher net immigration proportionately than we do. I'd be entirely OK with seeing our net immigration go up on the twin proviso that construction goes up accordingly, and that the new migrants are not claiming universal credit, housing allowance etc and are paying taxes.
https://twitter.com/ezracheungtoto/status/1446416215648260096?s=20
(based purely on you being beyond 90° on every measure, no personal insult intended)
We all have a tendency to mythologise our opponents failings but the stories Yoons tell themselves about the SNP & Scotland are pretty self defeatingly hilarious. The tourists might have a minimal excuse but they seem terribly reluctant to admit that they may not be fully cognizant of the facts (aka experts).
Banana republic
One party state
Police state
Authoritarian dictatorship
Woke
Marxist
Socialist
Fascist
etc
I wonder if that's a factor in their parties' dire performances? If you're perpetually trying to defeat some other boogie man enemy rather than the one in front of you..
Ricardian economics, we should do what we have a competitive advantage in - and import that which we have a competitive disadvantage in.
Your anti-import, anti-abroad mercantilism would have been quite appropriate in the middle ages. But we've moved on from then, try and catch up.