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Keir and loathing in the Labour party – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    And yes please no spoilers on Squid Game, am on episode 6
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409

    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?

    Of course, the question I posed earlier still arises.
    What about when those who work for the government demand higher wages?
    And who are the people who will do the training?
    Yet to see either answered.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,095

    IshmaelZ said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    The danger of both Hickson’s and Suchet’s canonical depiction of Marple and Poirot is that nothing can ever be better. And thus we see Marple sexed up (worldly in a different way to the original idea, where Marple knows the world because she knows the village so well, and everything in the world is seen in village life. Or Poirot as itv recently did. You cannot just remake them, you have to be different, and for me, don’t bother.
    Likewise Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes, who has since had to be reimagined into 21st Century London or New York, or as a doctor in House.
    Jeremy Brett was THE definitive film/tv portrayal of Sherlock Holmes. The rest before - and after - do NOT measure up.

    Was particularly unimpressed by Benedict Cumberback's efforts. Don't know if it was him or the writing - likely both.

    PLUS the fact he ain't in Jeremy Brett's league. But them, as Sherlock, who is?
    John Wood. Brett was too hammy.
    Brett was brilliant as Holmes - the 'hammy' aspect seemed to match the books IMO. Holmes always seemed to have a sense of the theatric.

    I do wonder if Brett's bipolar disorder and other tragic malaises gave his performances a very Holmesian aspect as well. The Holmes of the books was frequently not a very well man - although most of his malaises were of his own making - starving himself, not caring for himself, opium addictions etc.
    But none of that happens. Starving himself would be Mrs Hudson falling down on the job, he takes cocaine and morphine when bored but is not an addict - he is only pretending to be one when W finds him in an opium den.
    If I remember correctly, in one of the books Holmes states that his critical faculties are enhanced if he des not eat whilst on a case.

    As for opium addiction: my *impression* from the books - and Dr Watson's comments - that opium was present in his life far too much at times.
    Also the ‘seven percent solution’ * of cocaine - which Watson oddly refers to as ‘his only vice’.

    *The title of a strange seventies movie with the great Nicol Williamson as Holmes.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    Based on what I have just read about Graham Stringer, I am slightly surprised he's still in the Labour Party.

    If it's only him, I think Starmer can live with that.

    He'd be a great loss - as in great to lose. Cons very welcome.
    Good stuff. We'll take him. Maybe we can send you Dominic Grieve in return? *

    * non an MP I know but would seem fairly comfortable in a SKS-led party
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,180

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    People love murder mysteries.

    Genius detective who is an arsehole, but compelling, so gets to be as rude as we wish we could get away with.
    The key to these series is that the "whodunit?" is secondary to the characterisation of the detectives and their interactions.

    Agreed: see Morse, Wimsey, and even ... Barnaby.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    If there is one thing more pathetic than northern parochial rivalries, it’s people embellishing and overstating northern parochial rivalries.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    dixiedean said:

    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?

    Of course, the question I posed earlier still arises.
    What about when those who work for the government demand higher wages?
    And who are the people who will do the training?
    Yet to see either answered.
    1 Performance / output related
    2 We have thousands of redundant experts
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
    It wouldn't count against him. It doesn't matter that he's a Scouser, he's the twice-elected Mayor of Manchester. If they're winning to look past that for the Mayor, I'm sure they'll be willing to look past it for an MP.
    There is a fair bit of that seat which is in Salford. They don't like people from Liverpool.
    And yet they've voted for him?

    I don't think they're that bovvered.
    Well. GM Is far more than Salford and North Manchester.

    It may not be a big issue but it's a big Man-U supporting area and they generally don't like Liverpool.
    Get a life.

    (And FWIW Burnham is an Evertonian)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    edited October 2021
    For the nth time. Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool, but the PM was born in New York.
    He grew up in Culcheth, which is between Warrington and Leigh. And went to school in Newton-le-Willows. This does not come close to being Scouse Land.
    His not having a Scouse accent is probably quite a clue.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?

    He’s right, I think that’s what we voted for and it keeps Brexit voters onside.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    People love murder mysteries.

    Genius detective who is an arsehole, but compelling, so gets to be as rude as we wish we could get away with.
    The key to these series is that the "whodunit?" is secondary to the characterisation of the detectives and their interactions.

    Agreed: see Morse, Wimsey, and even ... Barnaby.
    I wanted to call our second son Barnaby… everyone took the piss so I stepped back. I think it’s cute - Barney. And the Midsomer angle is good too
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,021
    dixiedean said:

    For the nth time. Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool, but the PM was born in New York.
    He grew up in Culcheth, which is between Warrington and Leigh. And went to school in Newton-le-Willows. This does not come close to being Scouse Land.
    His not having a Scouse accent is probably quite a clue.

    "Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool"

    LOL!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,792
    edited October 2021

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    People love murder mysteries.

    Genius detective who is an arsehole, but compelling, so gets to be as rude as we wish we could get away with.
    The key to these series is that the "whodunit?" is secondary to the characterisation of the detectives and their interactions.

    Thank god for that because I never know what is going on. For a start all characters should be made to walk around with name tags on them and they should all look very different because I get very confused. Colour coding would help me.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,732
    Yeh Gods, I had forgotten about this one:


    Undercover police to patrol bars and clubs under plans to help protect women in wake of Sarah Everard’s death
    Plain clothes officers will seek to actively identify predatory and suspicious offenders in the night time economy.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/undercover-police-nightclubs-bars-protect-women-sarah-everard-b924306.html
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    TBH I think that Tony Blair's chances of leading the Labour Party back to power have taken a bit of a knock, here
    He's got as much chance of that as Maggie coming back for another spell in No 10.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?

    We've debated in a serious way on here about whether labour constraints will actually lead to higher wages. But for Johnson it's just a story, so he can turn something that is rightly perceived by the public as bad - shortages - into something that he can say is necessarily good and part of his master plan. But if there weren't the shortages he wouldn't have come up with this story.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    RobD said:
    Why do people continue to try to troll the Tory conference? Stuff like that or hanging banners to tell them to get out, it just gives the Tories a chance to talk about showing respect to opponents, and creates awkward questions for those trying to oppose the Tories.

    It's classic performative politics which makes someone feel better but hurts their cause.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    edited October 2021

    dixiedean said:

    For the nth time. Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool, but the PM was born in New York.
    He grew up in Culcheth, which is between Warrington and Leigh. And went to school in Newton-le-Willows. This does not come close to being Scouse Land.
    His not having a Scouse accent is probably quite a clue.

    "Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool"

    LOL!
    On that logic Jesus was a horse.
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:
    Why do people continue to try to troll the Tory conference? Stuff like that or hanging banners to tell them to get out, it just gives the Tories a chance to talk about showing respect to opponents, and creates awkward questions for those trying to oppose the Tories.

    It's classic performative politics which makes someone feel better but hurts their cause.
    Because they're thick as two short planks.

    Its why they have the politics that they have too.
  • dixiedean said:


    Folk have been trying to measure publi

    dixiedean said:

    For the nth time. Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool, but the PM was born in New York.
    He grew up in Culcheth, which is between Warrington and Leigh. And went to school in Newton-le-Willows. This does not come close to being Scouse Land.
    His not having a Scouse accent is probably quite a clue.

    "Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool"

    LOL!
    On that logic Jesus was a horse.
    More believable than that immaculate conception story.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    FF43 said:

    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?

    We've debated in a serious way on here about whether labour constraints will actually lead to higher wages. But for Johnson it's just a story, so he can turn something that is rightly perceived by the public as bad - shortages - into something that he can say is necessarily good and part of his master plan. But if there weren't the shortages he wouldn't have come up with this story.
    Indeed. And of course it is a potential Brexit Dividend he can point to.
    Which was bound to happen, since there were potential upsides numbering in the hundreds that various people have predicted over the years.
    There was a good chance one of them would actually occur.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    dixiedean said:

    For the nth time. Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool, but the PM was born in New York.
    He grew up in Culcheth, which is between Warrington and Leigh. And went to school in Newton-le-Willows. This does not come close to being Scouse Land.
    His not having a Scouse accent is probably quite a clue.

    "Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool"

    LOL!
    Very hard to know I admit.
    I was born in Wallasey, lived there till I was 33. Moved to Crosby.
    Worked twenty years in the city centre. Am I a Scouser (I think of myself as one and certainly during University I got the 'Scouser' joke daily, but who knows.....)?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    dixiedean said:

    FF43 said:

    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?

    We've debated in a serious way on here about whether labour constraints will actually lead to higher wages. But for Johnson it's just a story, so he can turn something that is rightly perceived by the public as bad - shortages - into something that he can say is necessarily good and part of his master plan. But if there weren't the shortages he wouldn't have come up with this story.
    Indeed. And of course it is a potential Brexit Dividend he can point to.
    Which was bound to happen, since there were potential upsides numbering in the hundreds that various people have predicted over the years.
    There was a good chance one of them would actually occur.
    I think Stuart Rose was an early proponent of increased cost fron increasex wages post Brexit.
    Probably the best day campaigning Leave had.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    edited October 2021

    dixiedean said:

    For the nth time. Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool, but the PM was born in New York.
    He grew up in Culcheth, which is between Warrington and Leigh. And went to school in Newton-le-Willows. This does not come close to being Scouse Land.
    His not having a Scouse accent is probably quite a clue.

    "Andy Burnham is not a Scouser!!
    He was born in Liverpool"

    LOL!
    Very hard to know I admit.
    I was born in Wallasey, lived there till I was 33. Moved to Crosby.
    Worked twenty years in the city centre. Am I a Scouser (I think of myself as one and certainly during University I got the 'Scouser' joke daily, but who knows.....)?
    Damned sight more of one than Burnham. He doesn’t even sound close to one.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Question this late Sunday night.
    Why is the BBC wetting itself over this latest Panama papers leak?
    I mean, rich and powerful people doing rich and powerful things (whilst almost certainly breaking the rules) is hardly news. It's happened for the last six thousand years.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,095

    Question this late Sunday night.
    Why is the BBC wetting itself over this latest Panama papers leak?
    I mean, rich and powerful people doing rich and powerful things (whilst almost certainly breaking the rules) is hardly news. It's happened for the last six thousand years.....

    Usually they manage to keep a veil over it. Perhaps you’d prefer the media to ignore it all ?

    This guy has, I think, an election next week.
    Not the ideal run up to it:
    https://twitter.com/Ian_Willoughby/status/1444713460365922308
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Question this late Sunday night.
    Why is the BBC wetting itself over this latest Panama papers leak?
    I mean, rich and powerful people doing rich and powerful things (whilst almost certainly breaking the rules) is hardly news. It's happened for the last six thousand years.....

    Well, even so such things are still newsworthy once known, but at a glance the initial story isn't really setting my outrage radars off for something too dramatic.
  • Question this late Sunday night.
    Why is the BBC wetting itself over this latest Panama papers leak?
    I mean, rich and powerful people doing rich and powerful things (whilst almost certainly breaking the rules) is hardly news. It's happened for the last six thousand years.....

    It’s a Guardian/Panorama exclusive in the UK I think, so they are trying to get their money’s worth.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    .

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    Your Morris Minor Traveller will need a service every 3000 miles too, so more work for the local mechanic, and the local carpenter.
    Servicing a Minor should take 15 minutes and cost about £20. On modern oils, and optical pickup dizzy you're good for about 10k mile intervals anyway.

    (I've a 2 door moggy with a 1.9 Peugeot Xud9 half fitted to it. If it ever gets finished, it's going to be the ultimate commuting car - fast, interesting, comfortable, and insanely cheap to run).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    At this rate diplomats are going to have to be asking bus drivers for protection.
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
    I like Cumberbatch, but there's something about his performances where I feel I can always tell it is him acting, if that makes any sense. Like, I loved his Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness, and other performances, but it was very much 'Cumberbatch doing X'.

    On Knightley, I only know two people with really strong opinions on her, both women, and both dislike her with almost the same mention of teeth as you, weird.
    That's exactly what I mean about Cumberbatch. I can see him acting. Whereas with really good actors they are the character. You don't notice how they do it.

    I find it hard to get past Keira's teeth. And she is far too thin. Positively anorexic. When I see her on screen I keep wondering why someone with all those teeth can't apparently manage to eat a square meal. Very unkind of me I'm sure.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    Oh dear. One rapist on the Met VIP protection squad might be excusable as a bad egg - but another, only a week after the last one got sent down?

    Get Dick Out!
    I think it was the whole "Get Dick Out!" that caused the problem in the first place.
    That really needs to be said in the voice of Dick Emery.
This discussion has been closed.