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Keir and loathing in the Labour party – politicalbetting.com

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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,346

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Does anyone know what "political message" was scrawled on Tulip Siddiq's vandalised car? I need to know whether it was my side or the other side before I condemn/ignore it. Thanks.

    Yes, the news was very coy about the content

    If it had been basic racism surely they would have said, and it would be bigger news?

    Was it internal Labour slanging? I don't know what side she is on, within the party. Or something to do with trans/LGB issues - she has asked questions in the House about "conversion therapy" -

    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-09-23/94503
    She declined to say, because it would incite copycats, but I gather it was racist.
    Shame on those doing it.
  • for all you baseball fans out there

    Seattle Mariners versus Los Angeles Angles for American League West title, game just started 12.10pm (PST).

    Significance: IF Mariners win this game and IF (based on series of calculations that would muddle Sir Isaac Newton) the NY Yankee or Boston Red Sox lose THEIR games today (now playing) THEN Seattle has the chance of winning a tie-breaker to be eligible for the wild card game to make it into the Major League Baseball playoffs.

    Or something like that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143
    Scott_xP said:

    Benedict Cumberbatch was the best Sherlock Holmes.

    Johnny Lee Miller a close second.

    A take nearly as wrong as "pineapple is great on pizza" or "Radiohead are a great band"
    I once bumped into Thom Yorke eating a pizza with pineapple on the top in Oxford.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143
    Andy_JS said:

    Benedict Cumberbatch was the best Sherlock Holmes.

    Johnny Lee Miller a close second.

    Apart from Jeremy Brett.
    :+1: One always got the impression that Brett knew about the kind of drug use that Holmes was partial to. It may have been outstanding acting, I don't know.
  • algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    I am still dubious about the story.

    However, the silhouette on Guido indicates 2 males and a female but then who knows

    I will only believe it if it happens
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    Well, the last sentence does at least demonstrate you have excellent taste in TV.
    ..and Joan Hickson was no Margaret Rutherford.
    Hickson easily was the definitive Marple, honourable mention goes to Julia Mckenzie, Geraldine McEwan was ill-served by script writers and Margaret Rutherford just replayed Madame Arcati…
    Margaret Rutherford definitely had the best theme tune. It's echoing round my head as I type, which is a blessed relief because yesterday my brain was in thrall to Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear.
    I think it’s the most “catchy”:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FG-ZO26pnE8

    But feels very “swinging sixties” rather than “St Mary Meade”:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8jkUVDOzJ7M
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,346
    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538

    Andy_JS said:

    Benedict Cumberbatch was the best Sherlock Holmes.

    Johnny Lee Miller a close second.

    Apart from Jeremy Brett.
    :+1: One always got the impression that Brett knew about the kind of drug use that Holmes was partial to. It may have been outstanding acting, I don't know.
    Brett was bipolar, and very ill mid-series onwards.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Brett#Private_life_and_health_problems

    All very sad.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited October 2021
    isam said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    isam said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    Johnson's Marr train wreck alluded to this unicorn too. I just thought it was Johnson winging it, but it looks like copper-bottomed policy. God help us.

    Any chance of a thread header?
    Not until we've had the one about the non Conference bounce from Opinium - wait your turn
    Is that all you got Izzy, a wrongly spun story of polling, each time someone is trying to explain to you how the rudderless Tories are losing the debate?

    The true story of the polling is how it is relentlessly and irresistibly closing, the Tory’s fading, the Labour vote firming up, with plenty more time to go yet.

    Tick tock. 😄
    That next exit poll is going to break you......
    I seem to recall someone else repeatedly writing "tick tock" in the past. Remind me how that went? 🤔
    It doesn’t matter how you tick tock, but the climate you tick tock in.

    If Labour keep up the dialogue with lost red wall voters they started last week, it’s going to make the next exit poll very interesting.

    If the Torys continue what they have started this week, clueless about how they take forward all the issues the Government own, it is going to make the next exit poll very interesting.

    You think polling is very very bad for Labour? They only have to have a 2% lead in that exit poll and it will be very interesting.

    Anyway, I’m talking about a sea change narrative that’s clearly going on, which the polling trend is actually supporting.

    But Tories knew this was coming eventually, that you couldn’t ride the raft for ever?
    Ex Tory bur what sea change? A sea change would be a mid-term 20 point poll lead. Not a mid-term poll deficit.
    That’s where you are deluded. Labour can easily go from here to a 2 point lead in that exit poll.

    The governments that tend to get swingback tend to be competent.

    And as OGH keeps saying over and over to you without you listening, a particular and historically unique set of circumstances - lack of trust in Labour and dislike for its leader - created the 2019 result.
    Why did they get there worst ever vote shares in the Hartlepool, Chesham & Amersham, and Batley & Spen by elections?
    Oh Isam, You want to talk about last weeks indicators, I’m talking about the ones to watch in the coming months. I’ll spell it out.

    The signs we should be looking for change of narrative are 1) Starmer’s Favourbility rating for PM and 2) signs of increasing numbers of Leave voters saying they will vote Labour. In that sense Labour had a successful conference, the strategy is perfect to relentlessly look to improve these two indicators in the months and years ahead.

    Another element of the sea change is how incompetent and lost the government increasingly reveals itself to be. They still feel they can dine out on promises and expressing intentions, not real policy. Take messaging on the shortages for example, they point to shortages in US and Europe and around the world. If true that merely means governments in other countries could be hurt by this too - but if it’s not true the shelves are bare and petrol stations dry across US and EU, so it’s merely Tory government taking the piss out of the electorate, how exactly do you think this gaslighting is going down this week?

    Yes, I will concede to you, on the indicators you point to, you are right, I don’t have any doubt in my mind if the election comes next spring, the Conservatives will get a comfortable majority. The longer this sea change goes on though…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited October 2021
    slade said:

    Question for our IT experts. I have had a message from Microsoft about Windows 11. Is my PC compatible? I ticked the box and it said yes apart from TPM 2.0. Should I update or not?

    I’d wait a while, until us geeks IT experts have spent the next few months screaming at Microsoft, about all the bugs in both W11 and the “upgrade” process.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,883
    Jeremy Brett turned down the role of James Bond. We got Lazenby instead.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    I am still dubious about the story.

    However, the silhouette on Guido indicates 2 males and a female but then who knows

    I will only believe it if it happens
    I agree with you Big G. A couple of weeks ago Streeter was standing for leader, and now this. Merely points to the fact dirty tricks units, both Tory and Corbynite looking to blow Labours messaging off course.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,236
    edited October 2021
    Labour rules: If a seat vacancy came up potentially for Burnham, would he be offered it if he expressed an interest?

    I mean why would Starmer make that offer? He would be inviting trouble wouldn't he - i.e. by bringing in a viable leader rival?

    What is the LP rule on this - who selects the candidates to fill a vacancy, is it down to Starmer or local association or a bit of both?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690
    edited October 2021
    gealbhan said:

    isam said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    isam said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    Johnson's Marr train wreck alluded to this unicorn too. I just thought it was Johnson winging it, but it looks like copper-bottomed policy. God help us.

    Any chance of a thread header?
    Not until we've had the one about the non Conference bounce from Opinium - wait your turn
    Is that all you got Izzy, a wrongly spun story of polling, each time someone is trying to explain to you how the rudderless Tories are losing the debate?

    The true story of the polling is how it is relentlessly and irresistibly closing, the Tory’s fading, the Labour vote firming up, with plenty more time to go yet.

    Tick tock. 😄
    That next exit poll is going to break you......
    I seem to recall someone else repeatedly writing "tick tock" in the past. Remind me how that went? 🤔
    It doesn’t matter how you tick tock, but the climate you tick tock in.

    If Labour keep up the dialogue with lost red wall voters they started last week, it’s going to make the next exit poll very interesting.

    If the Torys continue what they have started this week, clueless about how they take forward all the issues the Government own, it is going to make the next exit poll very interesting.

    You think polling is very very bad for Labour? They only have to have a 2% lead in that exit poll and it will be very interesting.

    Anyway, I’m talking about a sea change narrative that’s clearly going on, which the polling trend is actually supporting.

    But Tories knew this was coming eventually, that you couldn’t ride the raft for ever?
    Ex Tory bur what sea change? A sea change would be a mid-term 20 point poll lead. Not a mid-term poll deficit.
    That’s where you are deluded. Labour can easily go from here to a 2 point lead in that exit poll.

    The governments that tend to get swingback tend to be competent.

    And as OGH keeps saying over and over to you without you listening, a particular and historically unique set of circumstances - lack of trust in Labour and dislike for its leader - created the 2019 result.
    Why did they get there worst ever vote shares in the Hartlepool, Chesham & Amersham, and Batley & Spen by elections?
    Oh Isam, You want to talk about last weeks indicators, I’m talking about the ones to watch in the coming months. I’ll spell it out.

    The signs we should be looking for change of narrative are 1) Starmer’s Favourbility rating for PM and 2) signs of increasing numbers of Leave voters saying they will vote Labour. In that sense Labour had a successful conference, the strategy is perfect to relentlessly look to improve these two indicators in the months and years ahead.

    Another element of the sea change is how incompetent and lost the government increasingly reveals itself to be. They still feel they can dine out on promises and expressing intentions, not real policy. Take messaging on the shortages for example, they point to shortages in US and Europe and around the world. If true that merely means governments in other countries could be hurt by this too - but if it’s not true the shelves are bare and petrol stations dry across US and EU, so it’s merely Tory government taking the piss out of the electorate, how exactly do you think this gaslighting is going down this week?

    Yes, I will concede to you, on the indicators you point to, you are right, I don’t have any doubt in my mind if the election comes next spring, the Conservatives will get a comfortable majority. The longer this sea change goes on though…
    There is a worldwide energy price crisis and also a supply one with shortages across the world

    Petrol stations are not dry for most of the country and we have had our weekly Asda delivery every week with no missing items and the store seems well stocked

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/garthfriesen/2021/09/03/no-end-in-sight-for-the-covid-led-global-supply-chain-disruption/

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
  • wf1954 said:

    moonshine said:

    maaarsh said:

    Off topic. Some horrible reports about a 15 year old who has died from Covid before getting her jab. Raises the question - did they JCVI kill Jorja?

    If she's already dead then she had it well before the JCVI decision could have gone the other way, so even leaving the ridiculous premise of your question untouched, the answer is no.
    She died this week I think. The jcvi could have authorised use months ago, but didn’t.
    Equally there will have been avoidable deaths in the over 80s cohort who had their second dose more than 6 months ago, thanks to the dillydallying approach to approving boosters.
    My wife and I have ours on 11 October
    My wife and I are 66. We had our second jabs 11 April, we have our boosters booked for 11 October so 6 months exactly. So no dillydallying I think?
    My wife and I had our second Pfizer vaccinations in February
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    The danger of both Hickson’s and Suchet’s canonical depiction of Marple and Poirot is that nothing can ever be better. And thus we see Marple sexed up (worldly in a different way to the original idea, where Marple knows the world because she knows the village so well, and everything in the world is seen in village life. Or Poirot as itv recently did. You cannot just remake them, you have to be different, and for me, don’t bother.
    Likewise Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes, who has since had to be reimagined into 21st Century London or New York, or as a doctor in House.
    Jeremy Brett was THE definitive film/tv portrayal of Sherlock Holmes. The rest before - and after - do NOT measure up.

    Was particularly unimpressed by Benedict Cumberback's efforts. Don't know if it was him or the writing - likely both.

    PLUS the fact he ain't in Jeremy Brett's league. But them, as Sherlock, who is?
    I love Jeremy Brett’s Holmes, they are go to’s on my Sky Q


    In addition to Brett's amazing performances and superb scripts, esp. in best episodes on both counts, I really really like BOTH actors who play Dr. Watson.

    Rather like the Patty Duke show: two very similar yet quite different personalities and performances, both harmonizing equally and strengthening the whole.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,333
    edited October 2021

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    Well, the last sentence does at least demonstrate you have excellent taste in TV.
    ..and Joan Hickson was no Margaret Rutherford.
    Hickson easily was the definitive Marple, honourable mention goes to Julia Mckenzie, Geraldine McEwan was ill-served by script writers and Margaret Rutherford just replayed Madame Arcati…
    Margaret Rutherford definitely had the best theme tune. It's echoing round my head as I type, which is a blessed relief because yesterday my brain was in thrall to Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear.
    I think it’s the most “catchy”:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FG-ZO26pnE8

    But feels very “swinging sixties” rather than “St Mary Meade”:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8jkUVDOzJ7M
    The Hickson Marple theme is far better; no contest.

    Bathed in tweedy pathos, vaguely Handel-ish, with a bit of dramatic drum to indicate there’s a murder afoot.

    As good as the Brideshead Revisited theme.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    gealbhan said:

    isam said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    isam said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    Johnson's Marr train wreck alluded to this unicorn too. I just thought it was Johnson winging it, but it looks like copper-bottomed policy. God help us.

    Any chance of a thread header?
    Not until we've had the one about the non Conference bounce from Opinium - wait your turn
    Is that all you got Izzy, a wrongly spun story of polling, each time someone is trying to explain to you how the rudderless Tories are losing the debate?

    The true story of the polling is how it is relentlessly and irresistibly closing, the Tory’s fading, the Labour vote firming up, with plenty more time to go yet.

    Tick tock. 😄
    That next exit poll is going to break you......
    I seem to recall someone else repeatedly writing "tick tock" in the past. Remind me how that went? 🤔
    It doesn’t matter how you tick tock, but the climate you tick tock in.

    If Labour keep up the dialogue with lost red wall voters they started last week, it’s going to make the next exit poll very interesting.

    If the Torys continue what they have started this week, clueless about how they take forward all the issues the Government own, it is going to make the next exit poll very interesting.

    You think polling is very very bad for Labour? They only have to have a 2% lead in that exit poll and it will be very interesting.

    Anyway, I’m talking about a sea change narrative that’s clearly going on, which the polling trend is actually supporting.

    But Tories knew this was coming eventually, that you couldn’t ride the raft for ever?
    Ex Tory bur what sea change? A sea change would be a mid-term 20 point poll lead. Not a mid-term poll deficit.
    That’s where you are deluded. Labour can easily go from here to a 2 point lead in that exit poll.

    The governments that tend to get swingback tend to be competent.

    And as OGH keeps saying over and over to you without you listening, a particular and historically unique set of circumstances - lack of trust in Labour and dislike for its leader - created the 2019 result.
    Why did they get there worst ever vote shares in the Hartlepool, Chesham & Amersham, and Batley & Spen by elections?
    Oh Isam, You want to talk about last weeks indicators, I’m talking about the ones to watch in the coming months. I’ll spell it out.

    The signs we should be looking for change of narrative are 1) Starmer’s Favourbility rating for PM and 2) signs of increasing numbers of Leave voters saying they will vote Labour. In that sense Labour had a successful conference, the strategy is perfect to relentlessly look to improve these two indicators in the months and years ahead.

    Another element of the sea change is how incompetent and lost the government increasingly reveals itself to be. They still feel they can dine out on promises and expressing intentions, not real policy. Take messaging on the shortages for example, they point to shortages in US and Europe and around the world. If true that merely means governments in other countries could be hurt by this too - but if it’s not true the shelves are bare and petrol stations dry across US and EU, so it’s merely Tory government taking the piss out of the electorate, how exactly do you think this gaslighting is going down this week?

    Yes, I will concede to you, on the indicators you point to, you are right, I don’t have any doubt in my mind if the election comes next spring, the Conservatives will get a comfortable majority. The longer this sea change goes on though…
    The indicators I point to point to the next GE, not next spring.

    dot dot dot
  • It appears now is the time.


  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,346

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,951

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    I am still dubious about the story.

    However, the silhouette on Guido indicates 2 males and a female but then who knows

    I will only believe it if it happens
    It's a done deal, I am now sure of it. Fantastic work by Johnson. But who are the other two?

    Not Duffield, not Coyle.
  • gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    The danger of both Hickson’s and Suchet’s canonical depiction of Marple and Poirot is that nothing can ever be better. And thus we see Marple sexed up (worldly in a different way to the original idea, where Marple knows the world because she knows the village so well, and everything in the world is seen in village life. Or Poirot as itv recently did. You cannot just remake them, you have to be different, and for me, don’t bother.
    Likewise Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes, who has since had to be reimagined into 21st Century London or New York, or as a doctor in House.
    Jeremy Brett was THE definitive film/tv portrayal of Sherlock Holmes. The rest before - and after - do NOT measure up.

    Was particularly unimpressed by Benedict Cumberback's efforts. Don't know if it was him or the writing - likely both.

    PLUS the fact he ain't in Jeremy Brett's league. But them, as Sherlock, who is?
    John Wood. Brett was too hammy.
    Brett was brilliant as Holmes - the 'hammy' aspect seemed to match the books IMO. Holmes always seemed to have a sense of the theatric.

    I do wonder if Brett's bipolar disorder and other tragic malaises gave his performances a very Holmesian aspect as well. The Holmes of the books was frequently not a very well man - although most of his malaises were of his own making - starving himself, not caring for himself, opium addictions etc.
    The point of Holmes portrayal, not just in performance, but the writing, is not to shatter the perception of a genius in whom scientific curiosity is raised to the status of a heroic passion. If in writing for Holmes or acting him you to try to bring out and show other sides of him, it’s nots going to work, because it won’t be Holmes.
    I disagree. ;) 'Scientific curiosity' is just one aspect of the Holmes of the books: he is a much deeper character than that. As for the theatrics: all the disguises he uses.

    I'd actually say your statement fits Mycroft better.
    I could say citation needed for the depth. Instead I will compromise. If we can agree, Holmes can’t function in his chosen mode of professionalism if he gives emotion a stronghold?
    Yes. In that way, he's a bit like some techies I've known. Particularly where members of the opposite sex are involved... ;)

    But yes, I think that Holmes is a very multi-dimensional character - and that is what maintains the reader's interest. Mycroft is much more one-dimensional.

    The great thing about this conversation is the way we can all read the same books, and come up with very different views on the main character. That's a wonder of literature that is frequently lost when transferred to the screen.
    Re: Mycroft Holmes, one of the things I like about the Jeremey Brett series, is the excellent, well-written, -acted & -fleshed out portrayal of Sherlock's big brother.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    Farooq said:

    Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman is the perfect storm of arseholery.

    And dear old Una Stubbs, sadly no longer with us, her of the urban legend about a coffee table.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,082
    Sandpit said:

    slade said:

    Question for our IT experts. I have had a message from Microsoft about Windows 11. Is my PC compatible? I ticked the box and it said yes apart from TPM 2.0. Should I update or not?

    I’d wait a while, until us geeks IT experts have spent the next few months screaming at Microsoft, about all the bugs in both W11 and the “upgrade” process.
    That was my initial thought.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,686

    It appears now is the time.


    Ahhhh... I remember Gavin from the Cambridge Union Society. Nice chap.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072

    It appears now is the time.


    The mandate is clear, to deny it is churlish.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    It appears now is the time.

    Now Is The Time! https://youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-OTq1AxkU
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,951
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
    Cumberbatch is excellent as Greville Wynne in The Courier.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a non chain pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenagers pick hops and strawberries in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    Brilliant.
    Interesting how much of that is the Green party manifesto, isn't it?
    It's what huge amounts of the farming media and politicians have been chugging on about for years and years, and more in the pandemic. Food and farming awards.

    Localism, food miles, traceability.

    The Greens have been trying to mug us for subsidies for hobby farmers for as long.

    I don't see the need to destroy supermarkets to create it though; seems to be happening perfectly well anyway.

    Trust me; I listen to Farming Today.
    I rather enjoy Farming Today. Ramblings is better though.
  • algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    I am still dubious about the story.

    However, the silhouette on Guido indicates 2 males and a female but then who knows

    I will only believe it if it happens
    It's a done deal, I am now sure of it. Fantastic work by Johnson. But who are the other two?

    Not Duffield, not Coyle.
    I remain unconvinced
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
    Cumberbatch is excellent as Greville Wynne in The Courier.
    He's good as Doctor Strange too.
  • Fishing said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    The danger of both Hickson’s and Suchet’s canonical depiction of Marple and Poirot is that nothing can ever be better. And thus we see Marple sexed up (worldly in a different way to the original idea, where Marple knows the world because she knows the village so well, and everything in the world is seen in village life. Or Poirot as itv recently did. You cannot just remake them, you have to be different, and for me, don’t bother.
    Likewise Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes, who has since had to be reimagined into 21st Century London or New York, or as a doctor in House.
    Jeremy Brett was THE definitive film/tv portrayal of Sherlock Holmes. The rest before - and after - do NOT measure up.

    Was particularly unimpressed by Benedict Cumberback's efforts. Don't know if it was him or the writing - likely both.

    PLUS the fact he ain't in Jeremy Brett's league. But them, as Sherlock, who is?
    I love Jeremy Brett’s Holmes, they are go to’s on my Sky Q


    Jeremy Brett is certainly by far the most authentic of the great Sherlocks. Basil Rathbone is perhaps the most amusing, and Nigel Bruce was a brilliant comic foil for him. And Benedict Cumberbatch was a good modern portrayal, though let down by some weird scripts.
    Basil Rathbone most definitely did some excellent acting here and there in his series, and his Holmes is generally amusing. Basil Rathbone was the real star by my lights, and together they made fine team.

    But most of the scripts were pretty crappy, the budgets were pretty stingy and results were at best B+ movies. Yet good enough to have made a major contribution to the lore and legend of Sherlock Holmes, especially in introducing to millions around the world the great creation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

    And seems clear that Benedict Cumberbatch & co. are performing the same sterling service.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,981

    Andy_JS said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, I haven't scrolled through the comments yet but one good bet might be Graham Stringer - obviously pro-Brexit, not a natural fit generally for the increasingly woke Labour party, sits for a seat that is pro-Brexit (and where the neighbouring Heywood and Middleton went Tory). Not sure his relationship with Burnham but I haven't seen anything that suggests they are close.

    Also - of an age where he's unlikely to run again.
    Would be a big coup for the Conservatives as well - he is not a nobody, he is an ex-leader of Manchester City Council, still commands a lot of respect in the constituency / City and is well known through Greater Manchester. He is the sort of defection that could have a ripple effect in neighbouring constituencies.
    A significant Jewish community in his constituency.
    Fantastic call from Mr Ed and yourself. So 1 down 2 to go.

    Once again fantastic work from Mr Ed.
    Has something happened?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    .

    "a senior Labour MP"? 🤔

    Definitions of senior may vary.
    It would be amusing if Burnham was a defector
    Burnham is not an MP....
    Burnham's plan is to get back into the Commons in a safe Labour seat at a by-election later this year, then to challenge Stamer for the leadership, wresting it from him in early 2022, before defecting to the Tories and and winning the Conservative leadership contest in late 2023. He then leads the Tories to a 200 seat majority in 2024.
    He can't though.

    The moment he becomes an MP he ceases to be Mayor of Manchester.

    It is the law.
    Why is it different from South Yorkshire Mayor? Dan Jarvis is that and an MP.
    It’s to with whether the post is combined with the elected police thingee role.

    An MP can’t have authority over the police.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,910

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    I am still dubious about the story.

    However, the silhouette on Guido indicates 2 males and a female but then who knows

    I will only believe it if it happens
    It's a done deal, I am now sure of it. Fantastic work by Johnson. But who are the other two?

    Not Duffield, not Coyle.
    I remain unconvinced
    Agree. Nothing solid. And nothing in the original story that sounded right.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,910

    Fishing said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    The danger of both Hickson’s and Suchet’s canonical depiction of Marple and Poirot is that nothing can ever be better. And thus we see Marple sexed up (worldly in a different way to the original idea, where Marple knows the world because she knows the village so well, and everything in the world is seen in village life. Or Poirot as itv recently did. You cannot just remake them, you have to be different, and for me, don’t bother.
    Likewise Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes, who has since had to be reimagined into 21st Century London or New York, or as a doctor in House.
    Jeremy Brett was THE definitive film/tv portrayal of Sherlock Holmes. The rest before - and after - do NOT measure up.

    Was particularly unimpressed by Benedict Cumberback's efforts. Don't know if it was him or the writing - likely both.

    PLUS the fact he ain't in Jeremy Brett's league. But them, as Sherlock, who is?
    I love Jeremy Brett’s Holmes, they are go to’s on my Sky Q


    Jeremy Brett is certainly by far the most authentic of the great Sherlocks. Basil Rathbone is perhaps the most amusing, and Nigel Bruce was a brilliant comic foil for him. And Benedict Cumberbatch was a good modern portrayal, though let down by some weird scripts.
    Basil Rathbone most definitely did some excellent acting here and there in his series, and his Holmes is generally amusing. Basil Rathbone was the real star by my lights, and together they made fine team.

    But most of the scripts were pretty crappy, the budgets were pretty stingy and results were at best B+ movies. Yet good enough to have made a major contribution to the lore and legend of Sherlock Holmes, especially in introducing to millions around the world the great creation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

    And seems clear that Benedict Cumberbatch & co. are performing the same sterling service.
    No-one has ever done a decent Hound of the Baskervilles that is reasonably faithful to the original book. Brett gets closest, but not close enough.

    And all the best Sherlock versions are the ones which don't do too much to embroider or go off the point. Doyle was above all a top quality story teller, of a different league to most script writers.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690
    edited October 2021
    @gealbhan in addition to the worldwide shortages I posted there is this today

    Brexit has played a part in our issues but it is much more and a very serious problem for all the world

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126562992/covid19-usps-stops-nz-mail-service-due-to-unavailability-of-transportation
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Taz said:

    It appears now is the time.


    The mandate is clear, to deny it is churlish.
    Nah. You need to persuade people of it as it’s not reserved to Holyrood.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    My appreciation of & for Mr. Holmes & Dr. Watson stems from having read The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes as a callow, impressionable youth. Was blown away by the characters, the plots, the logic & puzzle-solving, and the amazing fact that a guy at least as weird and strange as yours truly was the star of the show.

    Plus I greatly enjoyed the vivid descriptions of late Victorian England. And still do, which is why I have trouble appreciating Sherlock Holmes in Modern Dress.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    It seems that the BBC News Northern Ireland interview where Johnson said, “I’ve given you the most important metric – never mind life expectancy, never mind cancer outcomes – look at wage growth” is no longer available on BBC iPlayer. https://twitter.com/alanferrier/status/1444722422066950155/photo/1
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095

    It appears now is the time.


    He can say what he wants. He was an adviser to May, not connected to Boris' inner circle and not even now an MP.

    As long as this Tory government remains in power no indyref2 will be allowed, tough
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024
  • MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Graham Stringer is 71 - would he want to standing 2024
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
    She was very good in Pride and Prejudice imo, very good indeed. OTH she was terrible in Love Actually.
  • MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
    She was very good in Pride and Prejudice imo, very good indeed. OTH she was terrible in Love Actually.
    She was good in Pirates of the Caribbean too.
  • BBC claim the Blairs are named in the Pandora Papers
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    Oh dear. One rapist on the Met VIP protection squad might be excusable as a bad egg - but another, only a week after the last one got sent down?

    Get Dick Out!
  • Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    Shocking - Dick must go
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Graham Stringer is 71 - would he want to standing 2024
    Certainly not. At 74 he'll be eyeing a run for POTUS, surely. ;-)
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Graham Stringer is 71 - would he want to standing 2024
    I was thinking more he stands down now and forces a by-election - as you said, he is 71 so I can't imagine he wants to continue past-2024 but he may think (either because it is the right thing to do or to cause mayhem) that forcing a by-election is the best thing. I may be reading too much into things but there are some slightly odd things going on at the moment in Manchester City Council - Richard Leese (Stringer's old colleague) is standing down, I wonder whether Burnham's high profile strutting has ruffled a few feathers; Leese has always been of the view that the GM Mayor is an equal, not a superior, to the individual council heads (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2014/nov/19/sir-richard-leese-elected-mayor-for-greater-manchester)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Graham Stringer is 71 - would he want to standing 2024
    Certainly not. At 74 he'll be eyeing a run for POTUS, surely. ;-)
    He would be better than the two leading candidates.
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
    It wouldn't count against him. It doesn't matter that he's a Scouser, he's the twice-elected Mayor of Manchester. If they're winning to look past that for the Mayor, I'm sure they'll be willing to look past it for an MP.
  • Really enjoying Squid Game, thanks for the recommendation Leon.

    A vision of what America would have been like if Donald Trump had been re-elected.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,462
    HYUFD said:

    It appears now is the time.


    He can say what he wants. He was an adviser to May, not connected to Boris' inner circle and not even now an MP.

    As long as this Tory government remains in power no indyref2 will be allowed, tough
    Time to discuss Deltic diesel-gas turbine hybrid designs.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Really enjoying Squid Game, thanks for the recommendation Leon.

    A vision of what America would have been like if Donald Trump had been re-elected.

    Haha, is anything dystopian NOT an idea of what America would have been liked if Trump had been re-elected?

    Agreed on Squid Games though, really liked it, love the pink hair at the end (spoiler alert)
  • MrEd said:

    Really enjoying Squid Game, thanks for the recommendation Leon.

    A vision of what America would have been like if Donald Trump had been re-elected.

    Haha, is anything dystopian NOT an idea of what America would have been liked if Trump had been re-elected?

    Agreed on Squid Games though, really liked it, love the pink hair at the end (spoiler alert)
    No spoilers please, still watching it.
  • BBC just announced one in five petrol stations in London and the South East are short of fuel

    Or they could have said

    BBC announce 80% of petrol stations in London and the South East have fuel

    No wonder 47% blame the media for the fuel crisis
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
    It wouldn't count against him. It doesn't matter that he's a Scouser, he's the twice-elected Mayor of Manchester. If they're winning to look past that for the Mayor, I'm sure they'll be willing to look past it for an MP.
    There is a fair bit of that seat which is in Salford. They don't like people from Liverpool.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Really enjoying Squid Game, thanks for the recommendation Leon.

    A vision of what America would have been like if Donald Trump had been re-elected.

    Haha, is anything dystopian NOT an idea of what America would have been liked if Trump had been re-elected?

    Agreed on Squid Games though, really liked it, love the pink hair at the end (spoiler alert)
    No spoilers please, still watching it.
    So I better not mention Trump makes an appearance at the end?

    (only joking)
  • Farooq said:

    BBC just announced one in five petrol stations in London and the South East are short of fuel

    Or they could have said

    BBC announce 80% of petrol stations in London and the South East have fuel

    No wonder 47% blame the media for the fuel crisis

    or, most people don't blame the media
    Only 23% HMG
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Farooq said:

    BBC just announced one in five petrol stations in London and the South East are short of fuel

    Or they could have said

    BBC announce 80% of petrol stations in London and the South East have fuel

    No wonder 47% blame the media for the fuel crisis

    or, most people don't blame the media
    A large fraction do, I think around half?
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
    It wouldn't count against him. It doesn't matter that he's a Scouser, he's the twice-elected Mayor of Manchester. If they're winning to look past that for the Mayor, I'm sure they'll be willing to look past it for an MP.
    There is a fair bit of that seat which is in Salford. They don't like people from Liverpool.
    And yet they've voted for him?

    I don't think they're that bovvered.
  • Quincel said:
    That is more than shocking
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    Oh dear. One rapist on the Met VIP protection squad might be excusable as a bad egg - but another, only a week after the last one got sent down?

    Get Dick Out!
    Alleged rapist
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    Shocking - Dick must go
    Dick out?

    😈
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ...
    Farooq said:

    BBC just announced one in five petrol stations in London and the South East are short of fuel

    Or they could have said

    BBC announce 80% of petrol stations in London and the South East have fuel

    No wonder 47% blame the media for the fuel crisis

    or, most people don't blame the media
    Haha brilliant, so predictable!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    BBC just announced one in five petrol stations in London and the South East are short of fuel

    Or they could have said

    BBC announce 80% of petrol stations in London and the South East have fuel

    No wonder 47% blame the media for the fuel crisis

    or, most people don't blame the media
    Only 23% HMG
    whoosh
    And again!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Taz said:

    It appears now is the time.


    The mandate is clear, to deny it is churlish.
    Well it might be rational to deny on the basis it probably won't make things any worse, but it's a bad look when there is such a clear mandate (yeah yeah, polls, but the democratic representatives are more compelling than polls).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807

    Really enjoying Squid Game, thanks for the recommendation Leon.

    A vision of what America would have been like if Donald Trump had been re-elected.

    Or, a vision of what America will be like if Donald Trump is re-elected?

    I've avoided Squid Game as I'm not a fan screen violence (or any violence for that matter). It's not that I'm prudish about it, just squeamish.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    edited October 2021
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Graham Stringer is 71 - would he want to standing 2024
    I was thinking more he stands down now and forces a by-election - as you said, he is 71 so I can't imagine he wants to continue past-2024 but he may think (either because it is the right thing to do or to cause mayhem) that forcing a by-election is the best thing. I may be reading too much into things but there are some slightly odd things going on at the moment in Manchester City Council - Richard Leese (Stringer's old colleague) is standing down, I wonder whether Burnham's high profile strutting has ruffled a few feathers; Leese has always been of the view that the GM Mayor is an equal, not a superior, to the individual council heads (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2014/nov/19/sir-richard-leese-elected-mayor-for-greater-manchester)
    Plenty of MPs go on later than 74, I wouldn't think age alone would indicate he didn't want to continue on, as Benpointer jests, but combined with massive political change? Maybe.
  • This is very good news

    BBC News - Full power ahead for UK to Norway under-sea power cable
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58772572
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    But the Cumberbatch series gave us in the recently departed Una Stubbs a Mrs Hudson for the ages…
    I don't like Cumberbatch as an actor really. The only thing he was any good in was the one where he played Turing. And the creepy paedo in that other film with Keira Knightley. In everything else he seems to me to be too mannered.

    Don't much like Keira either, as an actress. And she has too many teeth for her mouth.
    I like Cumberbatch, but there's something about his performances where I feel I can always tell it is him acting, if that makes any sense. Like, I loved his Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness, and other performances, but it was very much 'Cumberbatch doing X'.

    On Knightley, I only know two people with really strong opinions on her, both women, and both dislike her with almost the same mention of teeth as you, weird.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    If we were to get any defections (we won't), can we get the politicians to shortcut the argument about how they should resign their seat and fight a by-election? We all know whether to call for it is guided by self interest and only UKIP dared do it, and that the big two would switch positions on the subject if they were to benefit, so just do it in 5 minutes and move on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    People love murder mysteries.

    Genius detective who is an arsehole, but compelling, so gets to be as rude as we wish we could get away with.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
    It wouldn't count against him. It doesn't matter that he's a Scouser, he's the twice-elected Mayor of Manchester. If they're winning to look past that for the Mayor, I'm sure they'll be willing to look past it for an MP.
    There is a fair bit of that seat which is in Salford. They don't like people from Liverpool.
    And yet they've voted for him?

    I don't think they're that bovvered.
    Well. GM Is far more than Salford and North Manchester.

    It may not be a big issue but it's a big Man-U supporting area and they generally don't like Liverpool.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    kle4 said:

    If we were to get any defections (we won't), can we get the politicians to shortcut the argument about how they should resign their seat and fight a by-election? We all know whether to call for it is guided by self interest and only UKIP dared do it, and that the big two would switch positions on the subject if they were to benefit, so just do it in 5 minutes and move on.

    Thing is, Ukip didn’t “dare to do it”. They understood that there was a lot to gain from a by-election. The lot that left Labour and the Tories during the 2017-19 parliament were to dumb to understand that they should risk it for the sake of publicity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Graham Stringer is 71 - would he want to standing 2024
    Certainly not. At 74 he'll be eyeing a run for POTUS, surely. ;-)
    Is it really the time to trust a younger man for the job?

    #easyjokes.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Can someone tell me why these Labour MPs who are so close to the Tories that they're prepared to defect to them, didn't defect from Corbyn's Labour two years ago?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    Can someone tell me why these Labour MPs who are so close to the Tories that they're prepared to defect to them, didn't defect from Corbyn's Labour two years ago?

    They thought they might retain their seats?
  • kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    People love murder mysteries.

    Genius detective who is an arsehole, but compelling, so gets to be as rude as we wish we could get away with.
    Its like a Victorian Dr House MD but if he were a detective instead of a doctor.

    😉
  • Can someone tell me why these Labour MPs who are so close to the Tories that they're prepared to defect to them, didn't defect from Corbyn's Labour two years ago?

    I just think it is highly unlikely
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    Can someone tell me why these Labour MPs who are so close to the Tories that they're prepared to defect to them, didn't defect from Corbyn's Labour two years ago?

    As unanswerable as why they are reportedly angry that Keir cannot do better against the government so they would...join the government benches.
  • Can someone tell me why these Labour MPs who are so close to the Tories that they're prepared to defect to them, didn't defect from Corbyn's Labour two years ago?

    They thought they might retain their seats?
    They may have felt that Corbyn would lose then things would get better for Labour - and be disillusioned that if there is no better future coming up what are they waiting for?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    30m
    Cressida Dick must resign - and every craven politician who backed her, including those in supposedly progressive Labour, should be ashamed.
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well we all knew more than that from the MoS last night.

    Name names! I do hope Richard Burgon, RLB and Lavery are unveiled as Conservative MPs tomorrow. Although they might have second thoughts if they saw Johnson on Marr today.
    Guido a bit unconvincing. If he has information about a senior Labour MP from someone who happened to see the person it isn't confidential but he names no names. This story isn't standing up ATM.

    Graham Stringer is a great call from Mr Ed. I am now convinced the story is true.

    This is a phenomenal coup for Johnson.
    Ah thanks @Mexicanpete - I haven't seen anything yet saying he has gone over but, if the DM story is true (and that is another question in itself), I would be shocked if Stringer is not one of the three.

    Interesting, though, if he is defecting and decides not to stand again, then it opens the way for one...Andy Burnham.

    However, if you want to take things to a different level, how about this - Stringer defects, and then puts himself up for re-election in a by-election. Given it's a Manchester seat, both Burnham and Labour have to decide what to do - Burnham to stand and Labour to select him if he stood. If Burnham didn't stand, I reckon his leadership hopes might be hit badly. But would Starmer want Burnham back in the Commons? And would Burnham anyway win a by-election - Stringer is popular and pro-Brexit, like his seat, plus Burnham is a scouser (before anyone says, his old seat Leigh is not considered to be Manchester - it's halfway between Liverpool and Manchester).
    Leigh is not Manchester and its certainly not Wigan* but it is within Greater Manchester.

    * Tell someone from Leigh they're from Wigan and you're likely to walk away with a black eye.
    I know, it is a bit like Newcastle and Sunderland. My point was it's not Manchester in case anyone tried to say "ah yes, but Burnham's background shouldn't count against him".
    It wouldn't count against him. It doesn't matter that he's a Scouser, he's the twice-elected Mayor of Manchester. If they're winning to look past that for the Mayor, I'm sure they'll be willing to look past it for an MP.
    There is a fair bit of that seat which is in Salford. They don't like people from Liverpool.
    And yet they've voted for him?

    I don't think they're that bovvered.
    Well. GM Is far more than Salford and North Manchester.

    It may not be a big issue but it's a big Man-U supporting area and they generally don't like Liverpool.
    Yes but he's a Toffee.

    And they keep voting for him.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143

    Can someone tell me why these Labour MPs who are so close to the Tories that they're prepared to defect to them, didn't defect from Corbyn's Labour two years ago?

    I just think it is highly unlikely
    It is utter bollx frankly.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,256
    Based on what I have just read about Graham Stringer, I am slightly surprised he's still in the Labour Party.

    If it's only him, I think Starmer can live with that.
  • tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    If we were to get any defections (we won't), can we get the politicians to shortcut the argument about how they should resign their seat and fight a by-election? We all know whether to call for it is guided by self interest and only UKIP dared do it, and that the big two would switch positions on the subject if they were to benefit, so just do it in 5 minutes and move on.

    Thing is, Ukip didn’t “dare to do it”. They understood that there was a lot to gain from a by-election. The lot that left Labour and the Tories during the 2017-19 parliament were to dumb to understand that they should risk it for the sake of publicity.
    Indeed. Had the TIGgers had a by-election hold that could have been quite some TIGger bounce as a result.

    100% of the UKIP defectors won their by-election, then 50% held onto their seats at the following election.

    0% of TIGgers held on. They flunked it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,747
    Fishing said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Absolute state of this.

    Chris Loder, a Tory MP, has told a fringe meeting that it would be a good thing to destroy supermarket supply chains, even if it causes short-term problems.

    “I think actually one great opportunity we have from the issues we see at the moment is actually for some of these supermarket supply chains to crumble,” Loder, who was first elected MP for West Dorset in 2019, told a fringe meeting on farming at the party’s conference in Manchester, arguing that Brexit was not to blame for the problems. He went on:

    I know it might not feel like it in the immediate term. But it is in our mid and long-term interest that these logistics chains do break.

    It will mean that the farmer down the street will be able to sell their milk in the village shop like they did decades ago. It is because these commercial predators – that is the supermarkets – have wiped that out and I’d like to see that come back.


    https://bit.ly/3a06NUX

    I agree. He missed out the bit about warm beers and old ladies cycling to Evensong. Careless oversight.
    That will be next. A guarantee of a community shop, a pub, a church with BCP Eucharist, farming markets and a bobby on the beat in every town and village in this country. The chance for parents to ballot to reopen grammars in their local area if they wish and no excess building in the greenbelt. Elgar wafting across the meadow on summer evenings as local teenages pick hops in the fields and down ginger beer on summer evenings, Miss Marple on the drama channel (Joan Hickson version of course)....
    HYUFD, are you actually being sarcastically critical of..... The Tory Party?!
    No, that is my dream Tory Party
    Oh.

    I thought you were being wonderfully satirical.
    It's when one can't tell the difference that one really has to worry.

    Yet look more closely,, all the intervention needed to interfere with the free market to produce that image.
    Of course.

    People watching football, and not cricket. Tax football! Subsidise cricket.

    People not going to the right kind of church. Close it down.

    And God forbid anyone should think of remaking Miss Marple. That would require specific legislation. It might even deserve to be a capital crime.
    I would certainly encourage more cricket, certainly in the summer.

    I have no problem with other non Anglican churches as long as there is still a Church of England church in every Parish offering a BCP service.

    However my goodness I agree remakes of Miss Marple since Joan Hickson have been nothing short of heretical
    The danger of both Hickson’s and Suchet’s canonical depiction of Marple and Poirot is that nothing can ever be better. And thus we see Marple sexed up (worldly in a different way to the original idea, where Marple knows the world because she knows the village so well, and everything in the world is seen in village life. Or Poirot as itv recently did. You cannot just remake them, you have to be different, and for me, don’t bother.
    Likewise Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes, who has since had to be reimagined into 21st Century London or New York, or as a doctor in House.
    Jeremy Brett was THE definitive film/tv portrayal of Sherlock Holmes. The rest before - and after - do NOT measure up.

    Was particularly unimpressed by Benedict Cumberback's efforts. Don't know if it was him or the writing - likely both.

    PLUS the fact he ain't in Jeremy Brett's league. But them, as Sherlock, who is?
    I love Jeremy Brett’s Holmes, they are go to’s on my Sky Q


    Jeremy Brett is certainly by far the most authentic of the great Sherlocks. Basil Rathbone is perhaps the most amusing, and Nigel Bruce was a brilliant comic foil for him. And Benedict Cumberbatch was a good modern portrayal, though let down by some weird scripts.
    I liked Rupert Everett in the role. Xmas tv special 2004.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,686
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A police officer from the Met police’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command has been arrested and charged with rape

    46 y/o Metropolitan Police officer David Carrick, will appear via video link at Hatfield Magistrates' Court tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1444756141330817024

    Oh dear. One rapist on the Met VIP protection squad might be excusable as a bad egg - but another, only a week after the last one got sent down?

    Get Dick Out!
    I think it was the whole "Get Dick Out!" that caused the problem in the first place.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,747
    FF43 said:

    Based on what I have just read about Graham Stringer, I am slightly surprised he's still in the Labour Party.

    If it's only him, I think Starmer can live with that.

    He'd be a great loss - as in great to lose. Cons very welcome.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,271
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Christ! I hate Sherlock Holmes as well. Just don't get it.

    People love murder mysteries.

    Genius detective who is an arsehole, but compelling, so gets to be as rude as we wish we could get away with.
    The key to these series is that the "whodunit?" is secondary to the characterisation of the detectives and their interactions.

  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    If we were to get any defections (we won't), can we get the politicians to shortcut the argument about how they should resign their seat and fight a by-election? We all know whether to call for it is guided by self interest and only UKIP dared do it, and that the big two would switch positions on the subject if they were to benefit, so just do it in 5 minutes and move on.

    Thing is, Ukip didn’t “dare to do it”. They understood that there was a lot to gain from a by-election. The lot that left Labour and the Tories during the 2017-19 parliament were to dumb to understand that they should risk it for the sake of publicity.
    Indeed. Had the TIGgers had a by-election hold that could have been quite some TIGger bounce as a result.

    100% of the UKIP defectors won their by-election, then 50% held onto their seats at the following election.

    0% of TIGgers held on. They flunked it.
    They messed the whole thing up, delays, expectations management. Were they waiting for a big gun (sorry, Cukka)
    I sometimes wonder how close Yvette was to joining them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143
    I think this week we are at a political crossroads.

    Johnson has totally doubled down on the message he wants to send this conference: Brexit was about an economic reboot and about dealing with low wages, low productivity and migration. The migration causes the low wages.

    The cost of living crisis is down to our use of migrant labour which is no longer coming.

    Every question he gets on supply crisis he responds with higher wages, train "our people", productivity, automation etc etc.

    Sounds a lot like no pain no gain to me...


    Let's see where we are in a couple of years time eh?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TBH I think that Tony Blair's chances of leading the Labour Party back to power have taken a bit of a knock, here
This discussion has been closed.