My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
At most garages around here it’s a minimum purchase of 2 litres rather than a specific financial limit. I think that £5 minimum applies to card transactions although I could be completely wrong, given I generally only fill up when I need to (as @Philip_Thompson says, it’s more efficient to carry a lighter fuel load).
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
Lovely idea in theory, somewhat scary in practice b
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
Why? If theres a case for her going and they agree with it a grown up would make the case, not back her. How is it grown up to not speak up about concerns, if they have them?
The simplest explanation is they all believe she is best for the job, not that they are seeking to avoid a pile on because they are grown up.
If that is true, then we clearly have a serious talent shortage at the top of the Met.
Yes, this needs to be about more than one individual but it is simply astonishing that people think somebody who has consistently failed over decades is now magically the solution to this terrible problem.
The Met doesn't have to recruit internally, and given the circumstances and background, I'd prefer that they didn't. Police forces regularly take seniors officers from each other. I don't think the more usual practice of going from ACC in one force up to CC in another would work, but taking a CC with a good record of achievement in another force would work as both a promotion for the officer and a good input for the Met. And for those saying it needs to be a woman taking over, there are 15 female CCs at the moment, at least a couple of which are, to my knowledge, doing a good job.
On topic: LAS Elysee? What's that about? L'Elysee, surely
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
Why? If theres a case for her going and they agree with it a grown up would make the case, not back her. How is it grown up to not speak up about concerns, if they have them?
The simplest explanation is they all believe she is best for the job, not that they are seeking to avoid a pile on because they are grown up.
If that is true, then we clearly have a serious talent shortage at the top of the Met.
Yes, this needs to be about more than one individual but it is simply astonishing that people think somebody who has consistently failed over decades is now magically the solution to this terrible problem.
The Met doesn't have to recruit internally, and given the circumstances and background, I'd prefer that they didn't. Police forces regularly take seniors officers from each other. I don't think the more usual practice of going from ACC in one force up to CC in another would work, but taking a CC with a good record of achievement in another force would work as both a promotion for the officer and a good input for the Met. And for those saying it needs to be a woman taking over, there are 15 female CCs at the moment, at least a couple of which are, to my knowledge, doing a good job.
On topic: LAS Elysee? What's that about? L'Elysee, surely
An attempt at a pun being driven far beyond breaking point, I'll concede.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The thing about Cressida Dick is that, even if we make the heroic assumption that she is good at her job, she has nonetheless lost the confidence of the public. That will in itself harm policing and make reform harder. She should resign and let someone new take over.
But the calls for her to resign are not quite that unaminous. 38% of the public; according to a poll reported this morning. It isn't a 'george floyd' moment. There is a sense of public digust at an absolutely terrible crime, but this does not necessarily translate in to a lack of confidence in the police. You would need to dig deeper in to public opinion before arriving at that conclusion.
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
Why? If theres a case for her going and they agree with it a grown up would make the case, not back her. How is it grown up to not speak up about concerns, if they have them?
The simplest explanation is they all believe she is best for the job, not that they are seeking to avoid a pile on because they are grown up.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
Lovely idea in theory, somewhat scary in practice b
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
If the root cause of the problem is that there is in fact an ongoing supply shortage, and not just panic buying, measures to maximise demand could be counterproductive.
We have one independent chain of garages with its own trucks and depot in Shoreham. They are keeping going, but do not have the capacity to pick up the slack left by gaps elsewhere.
We were told this would be over in a few days. It isn’t. It’s not just panic.
Yup, a similar story in my part of London. The independent garage that I was relying on until last week empty later on yesterday. Got up early today and found fuel elsewhere, but quite a reasonable way away.
London and the South East are having issues and I have said that and so have the media
I am not selfish or complacent, but it is fair to comment on our local issues and as I said on Thursday the Asda driver delivering our order said that there was only one car filling up when he left and in his words 'it is over' and to be fair he works for Asda
Shortly after Sky were reporting from Chester again from a service station with no queues
Furthermore yesteday there were posts again saying they were able to obtain fuel
There is a need to recognise some will be having issues but it is also fair to say many are not
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
I had the displeasure a couple of months ago to hear the Today programme interviewing Ian Blair* about the potential reappointment of Dick and he seriously opined that he thought the criticism was because she is a woman!
This is the sort of mindset in many organisations now where people you would hope would have a decent level of critical thinking shit down criticism and blame it on sex/race rather than think “maybe they aren’t as good as I think they are even though they are an old kicker of mine”…..
* this misfortune of listening to Ian Blair’s drivel and constant defence of the indefensible was repeated this morning where today interviewed him again and he was absolutely desperate that any policing review must be by police not a judge etc…..
Of course he is. Look at what Mr Justice Henriques said when he did the post-Midland review - that the police did not understand the law and did not know how to do investigations. And the judge is right. Policemen hate lawyers because they insist that the police must follow the laws - the horror! Blair does not want an outsider because he wants to perpetuate the sacred caste myth of policing and fears light being shone on the reality of police culture and behaviour.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
If the root cause of the problem is that there is in fact an ongoing supply shortage, and not just panic buying, measures to maximise demand could be counterproductive.
Why would it maximise demand? The idea is to stop people who don’t need fuel now from getting it until they do.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
Getting adequate funding for the amount of cases you want/need x the amount of time needed on them seems a foundational starting point that is absolutely necessary for justice to have any chance of improving.
That can be done by increasing funding, restricting the number of cases, spending less time on each case or a mix of all three but it is hard to see how we can make any substantial progress without addressing this central dilemna. And increasing funding is the one that can have the most immediate and significant impact.
We have one independent chain of garages with its own trucks and depot in Shoreham. They are keeping going, but do not have the capacity to pick up the slack left by gaps elsewhere.
We were told this would be over in a few days. It isn’t. It’s not just panic.
Yup, a similar story in my part of London. The independent garage that I was relying on until last week empty later on yesterday. Got up early today and found fuel elsewhere, but quite a reasonable way away.
London and the South East are having issues and I have said that and so have the media
I am not selfish or complacent, but it is fair to comment on our local issues and as I said on Thursday the Asda driver delivering our order said that there was only one car filling up when he left and in his words 'it is over' and to be fair he works for Asda
Shortly after Sky were reporting from Chester again from a service station with no queues
Furthermore yesteday there were posts again saying they were able to obtain fuel
There is a need to recognise some will be having issues but it is also fair to say many are not
Just filled up (in Oxfordshire) - 5 min queue, no limits on purchases. Does seem to be very variable experience in terms of disruption with London seemingly hardest hit from the anecdotes friends have shared
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Same here - it does seem to be the case that an overstretched system is leading to local gaps while another area 50 miles away is fine. One local garage is trying to do its one "key workers first" scheme, with limits on sales for everyone who can't show they work for the NHS, but it's a bit mit and miss, and people keep coming back to top up so the queues are horrific.
And intuitively, that's what I'd expect after a transition from a big internal market to a smaller one. The regular blips in supply and demand will have more effect, because they're happening in a smaller space and it's harder to borrow drivers from elsewhere to smooth things out. Same reason that, once we could, we moved from every town having its own dairy, power station etc.
If that intuition is right, this sort of thing may keep happening. Unless we just accept that we need more standby drivers and tankers, but that harms efficiency, which is the opposite of what we wanted.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
What do you say to drivers who have an empty tank but only want to put £10 or £20 in?
That's probably much more common than you realise.
Yes, I went on one of those courses for people who've broken the speed limit (blush), and they strongly advised that simply to save fuel - "the petrol in your tank is the heaviest item you can change". Might feel differently in current circs, though.
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
I think it may be because she has their confidence; on the basis that they think she is good at the job. This Couzens case will be regarded a success: the judge said so himself, the best policing operation in 30 years, no evidence of the police closing ranks to protect one of their own, etc. And she has been apologetic and struck a concilitory tone, thus protecting the politicians from criticism; as many structural problems with policing will be rooted in issues to do with resourcing and political interference with its core work. So is the way of the world.
A “good” response from the police - just a multiple number of failures leading up the case itself. Had they taken that seriously, we’d not be in this position.
I must have been listening to a separate response from the met, because 6 months to come up with that apology - with no sense of plan to address confidence - was god awful.
Sub judice perhaps? And the failures around Couzens relate mostly to the absence of vetting. The flashing incident and the rapist nickname came from other forces, not the Met itself. Should the police have known Couzens was deep in debt? Perhaps but hands up whose employer has routine access to their bank accounts.
Surely a case of better information sharing? If met is unable to get its hands on other police force intel..
The question will be how many separate reports the met have had about Couzens, presumably through HR, and if no further action was taken.
I find it generally amazing many others seemed to have had concerns about him, but nothing was seemingly done…
@StuartDickson made the case yesterday for a national police force but bear in mind the Met is already twice the size of Police Scotland.
This morning on R4 Mishal Hussein questioned some police functionary or other on why there wasn’t a consistent approach on domestic abuse among forces (& if I heard right why some forces had no official policy). There certainly seems a case for more unified principles if not a single police force.
To be clear, I think Cressida Dick should resign, and also that she should not have been appointed in the first place. But I am seeking to understand why she is supported by the Home Secretary and Mayor of London, from the starting point that they are rational.
Re Khan - he claims to want to make violence against women a priority. But he sacked Joan Smith, a woman who has been investigating and writing about make violence for decades (ever since the Ripper case in fact) from his panel on the topic and has refused even to respond to a letter signed by 4000 people asking him to reconsider. That is how little he cares for womens' views.
The reason they are doing nothing is I am afraid that they don't think that there are any better candidates - even if they had any idea what such a candidate would look like - and they are scared of upsetting the police . The police are like the unions were, then the banks. Too big for their boots, too big to fail - until they do fail - and then we have an almighty problem on our hands.
I think we have it now. But it is going to take time for the political class to catch up.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
If the root cause of the problem is that there is in fact an ongoing supply shortage, and not just panic buying, measures to maximise demand could be counterproductive.
Why would it maximise demand? The idea is to stop people who don’t need fuel now from getting it until they do.
Because a lot of people won't want to put £30+ in as they carry less than that in their tank. So you've increased demand from them.
And the "topping up" brigade will just just top up as soon as they've got £30 of space in their tank, which could still be well before they need it. So you've not adjusted demand from them.
Overall then you've increased demand not cut it. Plus if people are convinced they're going to be messed around for longer, they'll top up more often. So again, increased demand.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
No, that's just what happens when you get a run on something that's delivered on a just in time basis. Because there isn't a lot of slack in the system, even after the panic subsidies it takes a while for the system to return to normal levels of stability.
Garage owners have no clue when they are getting a delivery. Scheduled deliveries are getting cancelled or not appearing. There is a supply issue.
Can confirm. A few days ago a BP thought it was getting a delivery the next evening. When I went there was no delivery, but the ASDA near me happened to have some so put £30 into both my and other half's cars
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
No, that's just what happens when you get a run on something that's delivered on a just in time basis. Because there isn't a lot of slack in the system, even after the panic subsidies it takes a while for the system to return to normal levels of stability.
Garage owners have no clue when they are getting a delivery. Scheduled deliveries are getting cancelled or not appearing. There is a supply issue.
Can confirm. A few days ago a BP thought it was getting a delivery the next evening. When I went there was no delivery, but the ASDA near me happened to have some so put £30 into both my and other half's cars
All issues seem to be BP-related. Possibly part of the reason there's no issues around my area, is there's no BP's nearby.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
What do you say to drivers who have an empty tank but only want to put £10 or £20 in?
That's probably much more common than you realise.
If the option was put £30 in or face a huge queue and the prospect of an empty pump, they might go for the former.
It’s really something I feel would need testing to see if it works, though I’m not sure how you would set up a double blind trial…
I know nothing about French politics and will not be bettong at this time however I note that only 1 poll in all of 2017 overstated Macron's vote share against Le Pen in the 2nd Round.
I drove from Dundee (where there are not only no problems, but there haven't ever been any) to Banbury yesterday. A lot of service stations on the M6 were said to have no fuel. Here in Banbury garages seem to be operating fairly normally but I must confess I am tempted to fill up again, even although I don't need it yet, on the way to Oxford. There clearly are some issues in some areas but it is a bit unpredictable. We are in Oxford till Monday. Hopefully things will be better by then.
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
I think it may be because she has their confidence; on the basis that they think she is good at the job. This Couzens case will be regarded a success: the judge said so himself, the best policing operation in 30 years, no evidence of the police closing ranks to protect one of their own, etc. And she has been apologetic and struck a concilitory tone, thus protecting the politicians from criticism; as many structural problems with policing will be rooted in issues to do with resourcing and political interference with its core work. So is the way of the world.
A “good” response from the police - just a multiple number of failures leading up the case itself. Had they taken that seriously, we’d not be in this position.
I must have been listening to a separate response from the met, because 6 months to come up with that apology - with no sense of plan to address confidence - was god awful.
Sub judice perhaps? And the failures around Couzens relate mostly to the absence of vetting. The flashing incident and the rapist nickname came from other forces, not the Met itself. Should the police have known Couzens was deep in debt? Perhaps but hands up whose employer has routine access to their bank accounts.
Asking for a credit check is a standard question in due diligence.
I can tell you from my experience pre-employment checks are usually half-arsed, outsourced, not followed up and simply not taken seriously enough. And the police are well able to get information from other police forces if they need to. But I'll bet that their processes simply were not robust or extensive enough because - technical issues aside - they did not take it seriously enough.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
A few weeks back I actually put under 2l into a vehicle (Horse van) that I'd hired as the condition of hire wqs to return with a full tank. Might be other edge cases like that why people fill with small amounts I apologised for not hitting 2 litres but it was fine
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
There is a very good article on Rishi Sunak in the mail today and affirms just how different he is to Boris and also why he is my choice to succeed him
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
Why? If theres a case for her going and they agree with it a grown up would make the case, not back her. How is it grown up to not speak up about concerns, if they have them?
The simplest explanation is they all believe she is best for the job, not that they are seeking to avoid a pile on because they are grown up.
Another point of view?
An impressive investigation does not preclude the existence of deep structural issues within an organisatin however. Elements can still be great whilst deep concerns remain in some very serious areas. (I'd imagine several on here might suggest they are doing great work in their field or organisation, even as it has serious problems).
Unfortunately for those doing good work it doesn't eliminate wider analysis potentially being negative.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
I said it would be over by Wednesday.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
Wasn’t it Philip who tipped Sunak at ridiculously long odds ?
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
I agree that there is some scapegoating going on.
Dick would have a better defence if she made some public statements of intent how she was going to root out misogyny and the people who obstructed the Morgan investigation etc.
Daniel Morgan was murdered in 1987. 34 years ago. What would you have the Commissioner do? Take back detectives' retirement gold watches? The inquiry reported this year and I dare say either its recommendations will be enacted or at least warm words can be published about intent to enact them.
One of the main reasons Dick should have been sacked is because, as the Morgan Report lays out in painful detail she personally obstructed that inquiry both before and after she became Commissioner. That ought to be a sacking offence.
That it isn't is a measure of the mess the police are in, their arrogant and dangerous disregard for the law and accountability and the failures of those who should be holding the police to account.
This is a real scandal and in many ways even worse than the Everard failings, appalling as those are.
When those at the top of the police obstruct inquiries and blithely dismiss those findings, you have a police force which is rotten at its core.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
I said it would be over by Wednesday.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
And the Petrol Retailers Association, not to mention the army who in PT world are starting work on Monday to fix a problem that was solved the previous Wednesday.......
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
If I get another tip like Sunak at 200/1 (or 250/1 with odds boost) then if you wish to miss out on that, that's on you. 🤷♂️
I never said by last Saturday evening, I said within a week and probably by Wednesday last Saturday. There's a difference. And I stand by that, there's a tiny minority that's different but for most of the country its already normal.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
Why? If theres a case for her going and they agree with it a grown up would make the case, not back her. How is it grown up to not speak up about concerns, if they have them?
The simplest explanation is they all believe she is best for the job, not that they are seeking to avoid a pile on because they are grown up.
If that is true, then we clearly have a serious talent shortage at the top of the Met.
Yes, this needs to be about more than one individual but it is simply astonishing that people think somebody who has consistently failed over decades is now magically the solution to this terrible problem.
The Met doesn't have to recruit internally, and given the circumstances and background, I'd prefer that they didn't. Police forces regularly take seniors officers from each other. I don't think the more usual practice of going from ACC in one force up to CC in another would work, but taking a CC with a good record of achievement in another force would work as both a promotion for the officer and a good input for the Met. And for those saying it needs to be a woman taking over, there are 15 female CCs at the moment, at least a couple of which are, to my knowledge, doing a good job.
On topic: LAS Elysee? What's that about? L'Elysee, surely
An attempt at a pun being driven far beyond breaking point, I'll concede.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
I said it would be over by Wednesday.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
And the Petrol Retailers Association, not to mention the army who in PT world are starting work on Monday to fix a problem that was solved the previous Wednesday.......
My viewpoint is the army are going in for cynical media management. Get the media to say this is resolved by the military and idiots will stop being idiots and the few places still being silly will stop it.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
Your analysis last week was spot on.
I think the evidence on PT betting is dont back the odds on (unless you can get PT to adjudicate the bet himself, as he will always be internally correct) but a PT longshot is well worth backing.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
Getting adequate funding for the amount of cases you want/need x the amount of time needed on them seems a foundational starting point that is absolutely necessary for justice to have any chance of improving.
That can be done by increasing funding, restricting the number of cases, spending less time on each case or a mix of all three but it is hard to see how we can make any substantial progress without addressing this central dilemna. And increasing funding is the one that can have the most immediate and significant impact.
Spend less time on each case - risk of innocent people being found guilty and vice versa Restrict number of cases - guilty people hit the lottery and escape both jail and court
Sorry but the only solution is to find money and find it quickly before our criminal justice system grinds to a complete halt (which I don't think we are far away from given the numbers quitting defence work for (literally) anything else).
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
I don't think there is a term, since you need at least two to make it be semi detached in the first place. Duplex? An americanism I think, not sure if it differs.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
"Semi-detached" itself usually covers it, particularly if distinguished from an end of terrace.
I know nothing about French politics and will not be bettong at this time however I note that only 1 poll in all of 2017 overstated Macron's vote share against Le Pen in the 2nd Round.
An astounding polling miss.
Inevitable though. Socialists and sundry left wingers will never say they support Macron to a pollster but given a choice of Le Pen... The system is designed that way but judging the enthusiasm to vote for someone you don't support to prevent someone you detest must be tricky.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
Wasn’t it Philip who tipped Sunak at ridiculously long odds ?
It was, and respect for that, but only for the moment. Sunak hasn't become PM yet...
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
I agree that there is some scapegoating going on.
Dick would have a better defence if she made some public statements of intent how she was going to root out misogyny and the people who obstructed the Morgan investigation etc.
The police's response has been, once again, to tell women what they need to do. Women are again being made responsible for stopping male police officers harming them.
They are not telling police officers what to do. They are not telling men what to do. No - women have to once again add "waving at buses" and "knocking on strangers' doors" to the list of other stuff they need to do if they want to go outside their homes without being menaced.
FFS!!
Yes I'm angry. I'm not the only woman to feel this way. Angry and tired of this and utterly contemptuous of this pathetically risible response.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
Reading about the court and justice system depresses me, as while money doesn't solve all problems in the world, it does seem that adequately funding and resourcing the courts and lawyers pays for itself with improved efficiency, on top of being important for justice purposes. It just seems to be such a false economy for the government to have cut back so much.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
I said it would be over by Wednesday.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
Aberdeenshire says hi. Aberdeenshire also says STFU.
According to @DavidL maybe you should go to Dundee where there are not only no problems, but there haven't been any
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
Such a job would typically be done under a minor works contract and in my experience that bleeds into the description a bit.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
If I get another tip like Sunak at 200/1 (or 250/1 with odds boost) then if you wish to miss out on that, that's on you. 🤷♂️
I never said by last Saturday evening, I said within a week and probably by Wednesday last Saturday. There's a difference. And I stand by that, there's a tiny minority that's different but for most of the country its already normal.
Hmm. I think by next Wednesday you will be bob-on. Well done, I take back my tipping slur.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
The Americans call it a "duplex".
Of course they also spell aluminium without the second "i".
I can’t figure out why Sadiq and Priti and Keir have all given their support to Dick.
To the extent that it makes you wonder what we’re not being told?
It's a strange one isn't it. Patel you can understand because it would be admitting an error. The other two?
Probably because Starmer and Khan are actually grownups. I think there is a case for Dick going, but it’s not helpful to pile on an individual in situations like this.
I agree that there is some scapegoating going on.
Dick would have a better defence if she made some public statements of intent how she was going to root out misogyny and the people who obstructed the Morgan investigation etc.
The police's response has been, once again, to tell women what they need to do. Women are again being made responsible for stopping male police officers harming them.
They are not telling police officers what to do. They are not telling men what to do. No - women have to once again add "waving at buses" and "knocking on strangers' doors" to the list of other stuff they need to do if they want to go outside their homes without being menaced.
FFS!!
Yes I'm angry. I'm not the only woman to feel this way. Angry and tired of this and utterly contemptuous of this pathetically risible response.
The response did seem akin to an arsonist telling you the best way to put out a fire. Thank you very much Mr Arsonist, but I really think you've not addressed the core problem with that suggestion.
For JONATHAN there is a facebook page helps you you find fuel. If you really are in the doodoo i could take you if have fuel. I cannot be too far from you.
Mr Smithson will vouch for my bona fides if required.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
Getting adequate funding for the amount of cases you want/need x the amount of time needed on them seems a foundational starting point that is absolutely necessary for justice to have any chance of improving.
That can be done by increasing funding, restricting the number of cases, spending less time on each case or a mix of all three but it is hard to see how we can make any substantial progress without addressing this central dilemna. And increasing funding is the one that can have the most immediate and significant impact.
Spend less time on each case - risk of innocent people being found guilty and vice versa Restrict number of cases - guilty people hit the lottery and escape both jail and court
Sorry but the only solution is to find money and find it quickly before our criminal justice system grinds to a complete halt (which I don't think we are far away from given the numbers quitting defence work for (literally) anything else).
Broadly concur but not quite. If a court case takes two years to get to court there is inevitably going to be lots of duplicated work as lawyers and police need to refresh their memories. Get it done in two months and you can spend less time. That relies on adequate funding so there is not a two year queue in the system but you can save time per case and have better justice.
On number of cases we already restrict it to todays number of cases. Many crimes are not prosecuted because we are under resourced at the police and/or court level, or the cost benefit is not considered correct. There is no reason to think that number of cases is optimal and we would not be better off with either less or more. If we are not prepared to pay more then I think we should take on fewer cases, so we can do the most important cases quickly and efficiently. But yes, if we are prepared to pay more then we can do a similar number of cases as we do today.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
I'd suggest ask your council's planning department - I vaguely recall from my days on planning committee that there is an English usage similar to duplex. I think it _might_ be span but I can't be certain.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
Wasn’t it Philip who tipped Sunak at ridiculously long odds ?
It was, and respect for that, but only for the moment. Sunak hasn't become PM yet...
Yes, but the bet could already have been laid for something like a 50x profit.
For JONATHAN there is a facebook page helps you you find fuel. If you really are in the doodoo i could take you if have fuel. I cannot be too far from you.
Mr Smithson will vouch for my bona fides if required.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
Reading about the court and justice system depresses me, as while money doesn't solve all problems in the world, it does seem that adequately funding and resourcing the courts and lawyers pays for itself with improved efficiency, on top of being important for justice purposes. It just seems to be such a false economy for the government to have cut back so much.
I think that the temptation was there because politicians got away with for so long. There were falling police numbers but also falling crime. Our crime rate remains much lower than it used to be. Whether that is because society is getting older on average, lead being taken out of petrol, the increased use of CCTV, whatever, that remains the case. People get very distorted views from horrific and high profile cases.
In Scotland the new Lord Advocate has basically decriminalised possession of drugs by creating a presumption that simple crimes of possession will be diverted. It was a great decision and will do more to reduce our horrendous drug deaths than anything else. A drug user who overdoses is all too often left by their fellow users (I hesitate to say friends) because they are scared of being arrested if they hang about. This will hopefully stop but it will also have a significant impact on the number of prosecutions in the courts.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Ah, Mr Thompson - the man confidently asserting that the Government's temporary visa scheme wouldn't be extended - when today it already has!
I don't recall confidently asserting it wouldn't be. I do recall saying it was all meaningless media fluff for the media's benefit - which it is - do you really think 5,000 visas is a gamechanger economically?
You also asserted the fuel crisis was more-or-less over by last Saturday evening/Sunday morning. I believe you assured us that as everyone had a full tank the need for panic buying was over, and diveries would catch up quickly. I pointed out an issue with a finite supply of vehicles and drivers, which you dismissed.
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
If I get another tip like Sunak at 200/1 (or 250/1 with odds boost) then if you wish to miss out on that, that's on you. 🤷♂️
I never said by last Saturday evening, I said within a week and probably by Wednesday last Saturday. There's a difference. And I stand by that, there's a tiny minority that's different but for most of the country its already normal.
Hmm. I think by next Wednesday you will be bob-on. Well done, I take back my tipping slur.
Next Wednesday is I believe Johnson's conference keynote speech.What Machiavellian genius is that? Hats off!
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
"Semi-detached" itself usually covers it, particularly if distinguished from an end of terrace.
I reckon people normally use that to refer to one of the dwellings, half the building.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
Reading about the court and justice system depresses me, as while money doesn't solve all problems in the world, it does seem that adequately funding and resourcing the courts and lawyers pays for itself with improved efficiency, on top of being important for justice purposes. It just seems to be such a false economy for the government to have cut back so much.
Unfortunately, that's the situation in most parts of government. As a nation, we get what we pay for and overall, we're not paying enough. Because governments don't get elected by charging enough.
This isn't new, by the way. Some of my formative politics was in a patch where "vote Labour for lower (council house) rents" was a potent slogan. So every year, said houses got a bit shabbier...
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
Reading about the court and justice system depresses me, as while money doesn't solve all problems in the world, it does seem that adequately funding and resourcing the courts and lawyers pays for itself with improved efficiency, on top of being important for justice purposes. It just seems to be such a false economy for the government to have cut back so much.
I think that the temptation was there because politicians got away with for so long. There were falling police numbers but also falling crime. Our crime rate remains much lower than it used to be. Whether that is because society is getting older on average, lead being taken out of petrol, the increased use of CCTV, whatever, that remains the case. People get very distorted views from horrific and high profile cases.
In Scotland the new Lord Advocate has basically decriminalised possession of drugs by creating a presumption that simple crimes of possession will be diverted. It was a great decision and will do more to reduce our horrendous drug deaths than anything else. A drug user who overdoses is all too often left by their fellow users (I hesitate to say friends) because they are scared of being arrested if they hang about. This will hopefully stop but it will also have a significant impact on the number of prosecutions in the courts.
Don't forget legalised abortion.
Potential criminals are much more likely to be aborted than children who are born.
Legalised abortion significantly reduces the crime rate all over the globe. Expect Texan crime to go up in ~20 years time if they get away with banning it.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
I said it would be over by Wednesday.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
Aberdeenshire says hi. Aberdeenshire also says STFU.
According to @DavidL maybe you should go to Dundee where there are not only no problems, but there haven't been any
Dundee is a hundred miles away. That's like you driving to Buxton to fill up.
The Press and Journal report today on the army deployment and say that countless petrol stations including some in Aberdeen and the North East had their pumps run dry as they tried to meet demand
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
Reading about the court and justice system depresses me, as while money doesn't solve all problems in the world, it does seem that adequately funding and resourcing the courts and lawyers pays for itself with improved efficiency, on top of being important for justice purposes. It just seems to be such a false economy for the government to have cut back so much.
Unfortunately, that's the situation in most parts of government. As a nation, we get what we pay for and overall, we're not paying enough. Because governments don't get elected by charging enough.
This isn't new, by the way. Some of my formative politics was in a patch where "vote Labour for lower (council house) rents" was a potent slogan. So every year, said houses got a bit shabbier...
I don't know the way out of this.
Not helped in justice by not wanting to pay for things like legal aid as it helps the 'wrong' people.
I don't see a way out of this either. I think ultimately in this country at least when we are faced with the options of paying more for a better service (and yes there has been plenty of waste trimmed) or settling for a crappier service at less cost, we will go for the latter every time.
Definitely more to this petrol shortage than panic. Service stations that had fuel are now empty again. A genuine supply chain problem.
Not around here
I wonder if any disruption is regional based upon customer behaviour, or brand-related based on a company being incompetent?
No hint of any issues anymore here. No queues, no disruption.
Seems you cannot say that without being accused of being I am alright Jack
Or a Sellers out?
Incidentally, still disruption round here with Rugeley affected although Cannock itself seems OK.
I recall the same posters claiming the fuel supply issue was over exactly seven days ago are saying it is over once again, seven days later. I suspect this time they may only be a few days away from being more or less correct.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
I said it would be over by Wednesday.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
Aberdeenshire says hi. Aberdeenshire also says STFU.
According to @DavidL maybe you should go to Dundee where there are not only no problems, but there haven't been any
Dundee is a hundred miles away. That's like you driving to Buxton to fill up.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
Others have suggested duplex, but that seems to mean two flats rather than two houses (e.g. one above the other).
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
Others have suggested duplex, but that seems to mean two flats rather than two houses (e.g. one above the other).
The Treasury is also understood to want to designate the cost of giving Covid vaccines to developing countries as official aid. This could amount to as much as £1bn.
One of the only things that this site almost unanimously agreed upon was the Overseas Aid should be used to give Covid vaccines to developing countries.
Are you now trying to spin this as a bad thing Scott?
Unless there is a history of teasing tweets between them, that French tweet shows quite hilarious levels of hurt pride and insecurity.
Mostly harmless, but as you say unless it's part of some general banter I'm not sure what is being achieved with twitter trash talk. It's phonier than boxers squaring up to each other at a weigh in.
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
Others have suggested duplex, but that seems to mean two flats rather than two houses (e.g. one above the other).
Isn't that a maisonette?
Wouldn’t a maisonette be a flat on more than one floor, but not all of the floors of the building? I am guessing at this point though.
It is of course the demand for cheap labour from the EU to depress UK wages
I would suggest you ready yourself for Boris in full @Philip_Thompson mode to take this argument head on this week and accusing labour and others of wanting much more immigration (100,000 HGV drivers alone) at the expense of decent wages
Small work question - what do you call a construction of two semi-detached houses? The German is Eigenheim, but "own home" is a false friend and I'm not sure there is an English term for it.
My modest proposal for solving the problem of queues at petrol stations: a £30 minimum spend so that only those who actually need to fill up will do so.
The only problem is, what do you do when somebody fills up with £20? Still charge them £30? That would be - courageous.
There is already a £5 minimum at most garages I think: just change it to £30.
So yes, tell people that they will be charged at least £30. If they need less than that, why are they in the queue?
If the root cause of the problem is that there is in fact an ongoing supply shortage, and not just panic buying, measures to maximise demand could be counterproductive.
Why would it maximise demand? The idea is to stop people who don’t need fuel now from getting it until they do.
I understand that. The risk is that people who would be happy to take £10 or £20 will up their purchases to £30 instead, which at face value is what that measure says.
Which is an issue if the root cause of the problem is inadequate supply rather than purely panic buying.
The interesting part of that linked story is that Boris also says cases are not getting to court quickly enough. The Ministry of Justice has just revealed the crown court backlog is at an all-time high, up to two years for some cases. (Admittedly, all-time means since 2014 when records began.) https://uk.news.yahoo.com/backlog-crown-court-criminal-cases-172331708.html
Oh FFS! The Tory government has repeatedly cut the budget for the criminal justice system. Boris voted for this every single time. That is why there are such delays. The situation was dire long before Covid. In many cases trials are being set for 3 or 4 years after the crimes. Crocodile tears on his part
On Cressida Dick, something occurred to me this morning. I wonder if the reason she’s still got a job is because there isn’t a woman available to replace her. Let’s be honest, they can’t appoint a man to sort this out, can they?
There are a number of senior policewomen around. Quite a few have been interviewed in recent days. And some seem to be ex-police women, which tells you something.
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
The delays in criminal justice are themselves a major source of inefficiency. So many trials are postponed and put off when witnesses have been inconvenienced. Cops are less bothered than most because they claim overtime. I regularly ask cops to attend at, say, 2.00pm but they are there by 10 to get well paid sitting in waiting rooms.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
Reading about the court and justice system depresses me, as while money doesn't solve all problems in the world, it does seem that adequately funding and resourcing the courts and lawyers pays for itself with improved efficiency, on top of being important for justice purposes. It just seems to be such a false economy for the government to have cut back so much.
No votes in the criminal justice system other than making noises about "monsters" and "life should mean life", I think this is a big part of why it's been neglected. It's a populist age and this is reflected in political rhetoric and priorities.
Fantastic, not enough Sunak and Boris are engaging in traditional PM-Chancellor power tugging, without having the rest of them at it too.
That's part of why Truss got promoted.
Before the reshuffle, Rishi was the sole heir apparent. Now there are two, and to an extent that means they cancel each other out. That strengthens BoJo.
I'm sure C. Northcote Parkinson had something to say about this. Whatever else he does/doesn't understand, BoJo understands power.
Comments
Police forces regularly take seniors officers from each other. I don't think the more usual practice of going from ACC in one force up to CC in another would work, but taking a CC with a good record of achievement in another force would work as both a promotion for the officer and a good input for the Met.
And for those saying it needs to be a woman taking over, there are 15 female CCs at the moment, at least a couple of which are, to my knowledge, doing a good job.
On topic: LAS Elysee? What's that about? L'Elysee, surely
Personally, I've had it with tokenism. Get the best person in - someone who really understands the need for change. Get sensible female advisors. What needs to happen to the police - as I've bored everyone here senseless with - is far wider than the Everard case.
I am not selfish or complacent, but it is fair to comment on our local issues and as I said on Thursday the Asda driver delivering our order said that there was only one car filling up when he left and in his words 'it is over' and to be fair he works for Asda
Shortly after Sky were reporting from Chester again from a service station with no queues
Furthermore yesteday there were posts again saying they were able to obtain fuel
There is a need to recognise some will be having issues but it is also fair to say many are not
That can be done by increasing funding, restricting the number of cases, spending less time on each case or a mix of all three but it is hard to see how we can make any substantial progress without addressing this central dilemna. And increasing funding is the one that can have the most immediate and significant impact.
If that intuition is right, this sort of thing may keep happening. Unless we just accept that we need more standby drivers and tankers, but that harms efficiency, which is the opposite of what we wanted.
The reason they are doing nothing is I am afraid that they don't think that there are any better candidates - even if they had any idea what such a candidate would look like - and they are scared of upsetting the police . The police are like the unions were, then the banks. Too big for their boots, too big to fail - until they do fail - and then we have an almighty problem on our hands.
I think we have it now. But it is going to take time for the political class to catch up.
Rock on Boris, great work, you smashed it!
And the "topping up" brigade will just just top up as soon as they've got £30 of space in their tank, which could still be well before they need it. So you've not adjusted demand from them.
Overall then you've increased demand not cut it. Plus if people are convinced they're going to be messed around for longer, they'll top up more often. So again, increased demand.
If BP are 💩 then go to ASDA. 🤷♂️
It’s really something I feel would need testing to see if it works, though I’m not sure how you would set up a double blind trial…
An astounding polling miss.
We are in Oxford till Monday. Hopefully things will be better by then.
I can tell you from my experience pre-employment checks are usually half-arsed, outsourced, not followed up and simply not taken seriously enough. And the police are well able to get information from other police forces if they need to. But I'll bet that their processes simply were not robust or extensive enough because - technical issues aside - they did not take it seriously enough.
Might be other edge cases like that why people fill with small amounts
I apologised for not hitting 2 litres but it was fine
Remind me never to take betting tips from you!
Unfortunately for those doing good work it doesn't eliminate wider analysis potentially being negative.
Apart from BP and/or London Remoaners it seems it was and I stand by that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Pétomane
That it isn't is a measure of the mess the police are in, their arrogant and dangerous disregard for the law and accountability and the failures of those who should be holding the police to account.
This is a real scandal and in many ways even worse than the Everard failings, appalling as those are.
When those at the top of the police obstruct inquiries and blithely dismiss those findings, you have a police force which is rotten at its core.
https://cen.acs.org/synthesis/Chemists-shorten-synthesis-molnupiravir-prepare/99/i1
I never said by last Saturday evening, I said within a week and probably by Wednesday last Saturday. There's a difference. And I stand by that, there's a tiny minority that's different but for most of the country its already normal.
A good example of the alternative was the sentence appeal court in Scotland. The Lord President really got a grip of that and massively accelerated the process. The result was that those who appealed were much less likely to get bail. And, therefore, much less likely to appeal. The Appeal court was also not presented with endless cases where the defence were able to argue, yes he has been a very naughty boy but he's kept his nose clean in the last 2 years/now got a young child/ even got a job.
Speed up trials and there will be more pleas.
I think the evidence on PT betting is dont back the odds on (unless you can get PT to adjudicate the bet himself, as he will always be internally correct) but a PT longshot is well worth backing.
Restrict number of cases - guilty people hit the lottery and escape both jail and court
Sorry but the only solution is to find money and find it quickly before our criminal justice system grinds to a complete halt (which I don't think we are far away from given the numbers quitting defence work for (literally) anything else).
They are not telling police officers what to do. They are not telling men what to do. No - women have to once again add "waving at buses" and "knocking on strangers' doors" to the list of other stuff they need to do if they want to go outside their homes without being menaced.
FFS!!
Yes I'm angry. I'm not the only woman to feel this way. Angry and tired of this and utterly contemptuous of this pathetically risible response.
https://www.ft.com/content/1e93fab0-916e-4697-be8a-af02bde94411
Of course they also spell aluminium without the second "i".
Nice ship @UKinVietnam ! Ours seems a little bit larger though. It was in Cam Ranh as well last spring 🇫🇷🇬🇧
https://twitter.com/franceauvietnam/status/1443897650311405569
Is it to manage the media conversation, or is it to fill the gaps in the labour market?
Mr Smithson will vouch for my bona fides if required.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1050422335707717/?ref=share
On number of cases we already restrict it to todays number of cases. Many crimes are not prosecuted because we are under resourced at the police and/or court level, or the cost benefit is not considered correct. There is no reason to think that number of cases is optimal and we would not be better off with either less or more. If we are not prepared to pay more then I think we should take on fewer cases, so we can do the most important cases quickly and efficiently. But yes, if we are prepared to pay more then we can do a similar number of cases as we do today.
https://www.ft.com/content/1e93fab0-916e-4697-be8a-af02bde94411 https://twitter.com/ColdChainShane/status/1444206645890977795/photo/1
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fuel-and-hgv-crisis-medicine-deliveries-being-hit-by-driver-shortages-say-pharmacies-btf7c62bf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1633156532
In Scotland the new Lord Advocate has basically decriminalised possession of drugs by creating a presumption that simple crimes of possession will be diverted. It was a great decision and will do more to reduce our horrendous drug deaths than anything else. A drug user who overdoses is all too often left by their fellow users (I hesitate to say friends) because they are scared of being arrested if they hang about. This will hopefully stop but it will also have a significant impact on the number of prosecutions in the courts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58769685
This isn't new, by the way. Some of my formative politics was in a patch where "vote Labour for lower (council house) rents" was a potent slogan. So every year, said houses got a bit shabbier...
I don't know the way out of this.
Potential criminals are much more likely to be aborted than children who are born.
Legalised abortion significantly reduces the crime rate all over the globe. Expect Texan crime to go up in ~20 years time if they get away with banning it.
Note some
I don't see a way out of this either. I think ultimately in this country at least when we are faced with the options of paying more for a better service (and yes there has been plenty of waste trimmed) or settling for a crappier service at less cost, we will go for the latter every time.
One of the only things that this site almost unanimously agreed upon was the Overseas Aid should be used to give Covid vaccines to developing countries.
Are you now trying to spin this as a bad thing Scott?
No gridlock on the road this morning, but only because the petrol stations have nothing to sell.
I would suggest you ready yourself for Boris in full @Philip_Thompson mode to take this argument head on this week and accusing labour and others of wanting much more immigration (100,000 HGV drivers alone) at the expense of decent wages
Which is an issue if the root cause of the problem is inadequate supply rather than purely panic buying.
https://davidallengreen.com/2021/10/the-i-will-make-something-up-who-are-they-going-to-believe-me-or-you-police-officer-only-gets-a-written-warning-and-why-this-matters-after-the-sarah-everard-murder/
All of which reminds you of how bad the BBC etc are at interviewing police chiefs, rarely asking the right questions.
Before the reshuffle, Rishi was the sole heir apparent. Now there are two, and to an extent that means they cancel each other out. That strengthens BoJo.
I'm sure C. Northcote Parkinson had something to say about this. Whatever else he does/doesn't understand, BoJo understands power.