While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Oh dear! The media are going to have to find something else to scare the gullible with.
It's interesting about policing, unfortunately it really is a few bad apples, to use that awful phrase. The MET are universally disliked by pretty much every other force, their institutional arrogance (a feature of larger metropolitan forces seemingly) causes many of these problems. Strip them of many national focussed roles and either move them to the NCA or regional hubs, possibly. How do we change, is a particularly challenging issue, I'd probably give the IOPC greater powers, funding and increase their scrutiny around corruption, I'd wager it would only take 1 or 2 cases to massively move things towards a better place, but keep the pressure on. Politicians need to stop being either for or against and work for positive change, listen to the rank and file (not the Federation, a union which fights for its members, as it should, but by definition a very conservative organisation) they have good ideas and recognise where they need to change and how best to achieve it. Force forces to adopt best practice, if they don't hold them to account. Promote less conservative leaders. Fund the criminal justice system at all levels properly. That's how I'd start anyway.
Any decent restaurant recommendations for central Glasgow?
Last time I was there I nearly incited a riot after describing the local food as tasting like deep fried shavings from a ped egg.
You could take Sarah Vine's recommendation of the Ubiquitous Fish? More seriously the Ubiquitous Chip has been providing decent scran in the west end since the 70s and is only a 10 minute cab ride from the centre (call it the U.B. Chip if you want to sound local). The same family also have Stravaigin which is a bit more youth orientated and adventurous, and a bit closer to the centre.
Edit: checked Stravaigin online and it seems they occasionally have grey squirrel on the menu..
What they did is show highlights to a sample of 1330, and compared it with previous similar experiments with first-time leader speeches - he did better (5.9/10) than Corbyn 2015 (5.1), who in turn did better than Johnson 2019 (4.1).
Which shows the limitations, since Johnson actually won. But although most people won't have seen this speech, it does suggest that he comes across well when people listen to him - and there will be plenty more opportunities for that as we emerge from lockdown. The key finding is probably that 63% agreed with what he had to say, vs. 29% who didn't.
Worth remembering that, for all his real talents, BoJo is a surprisingly poor live public speaker. He's not done the mythical 10 000 hours of slogging away trying to convince a hostile (and sober) audience.
Overall, it works for him, but it's noticeable.
Yes, indeed
When I was compiling my "conference speeches I remember" list (see below for more excitement!) it struck me that I can't remember a single line of a Boris conference speech, not even a joke, I don't think - and he tells pretty good jokes
What I do remember is the PR and the stunts and the TV shows
The TV Love Actually rip off advert - superb, one of the best electoral ads I've ever seen
The interview where he speaks Ancient Greek from the Iliad for five minutes
HIGNFYou
Driving through a wall
Donnez moi un break
He's often good at the "impromptu" stuff and he can be absolutely brilliant at staged TV, but in general he's a poor speaker, especially at conferences
I remembering Boris tripping up as he walked to the mike stand when he won the London mayoralty and saying, 'Ah... Ken's final booby trap!' (or something alike that). I thought it was quite a good ad-lib at the time, but it was probably all completely planned.
Yes, again, it is little images and vignettes
Boris throwing the basketball and somehow scoring from miles away
Boris stuck on the zipline with the flags
Boris doing that hand up Feel the Force thing and the cameraman falling over
Boris in absurd shorts and shirt combo on holiday
Cartoon images. But in an instagram age, this visual memorability may be a key asset
So Scott is right, it's Bozo the clown.
I think it could point to a boom and bust popularity.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
Any decent restaurant recommendations for central Glasgow?
Last time I was there I nearly incited a riot after describing the local food as tasting like deep fried shavings from a ped egg.
You could take Sarah Vine's recommendation of the Ubiquitous Fish? More seriously the Ubiquitous Chip has been providing decent scran in the west end since the 70s and is only a 10 minute cab ride from the centre (call it the U.B. Chip if you want to sound local). The same family also have Stravaigin which is a bit more youth orientated and adventurous, and a bit closer to the centre.
Edit: checked Stravaigin online and it seems they occasionally have grey squirrel on the menu..
Ichiban on Queen street is very good if you like Japanese food - it's not fine dining though. Their gyoza are divine and no one else does it like them.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
I have to say I find the emphasis that the Metropolitan Police are putting on Couzens being an “ex” police officer pretty sickening. He was a police officer when he murdered Sarah Everard. More than that, he used that as a key part of his crime.
It is spin which shows that they do not really understand why this is so damaging to the police. How can any woman ever trust any officer ever again? And it shows that they are not really interested in learning any lessons or in doing anything to improve their toxic culture. They will just put this in the box marked "a rotten apple" and move on.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
Something must be done. This is something. The problem would have resolved in time, and this may help a tiny bit.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
Or take credit for the problem being resolved - which it would have been either way.
If the media/panic buyers get the blame for this crisis, and he can be the leader who got it resolved, then win/win.
Who cares if it would have been resolved without his or the militaries involvement anyway?
Goes back to the conversation earlier today here about Boris being sly and cunning.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
The status quo before was about eight petrol stations being low. For 99.9% of people there were no shortages.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
Only 4% thought it went 'very well'? A big chunk of the PB Leavers are seriously out of whack with the rest of the country.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
No because there never needed to be a panic in the first place. This has been entirely concocted by people acting with malicious intent, wilfully aided by the stupid media.
What they did is show highlights to a sample of 1330, and compared it with previous similar experiments with first-time leader speeches - he did better (5.9/10) than Corbyn 2015 (5.1), who in turn did better than Johnson 2019 (4.1).
Which shows the limitations, since Johnson actually won. But although most people won't have seen this speech, it does suggest that he comes across well when people listen to him - and there will be plenty more opportunities for that as we emerge from lockdown. The key finding is probably that 63% agreed with what he had to say, vs. 29% who didn't.
Worth remembering that, for all his real talents, BoJo is a surprisingly poor live public speaker. He's not done the mythical 10 000 hours of slogging away trying to convince a hostile (and sober) audience.
Overall, it works for him, but it's noticeable.
Yes, indeed
When I was compiling my "conference speeches I remember" list (see below for more excitement!) it struck me that I can't remember a single line of a Boris conference speech, not even a joke, I don't think - and he tells pretty good jokes
What I do remember is the PR and the stunts and the TV shows
The TV Love Actually rip off advert - superb, one of the best electoral ads I've ever seen
The interview where he speaks Ancient Greek from the Iliad for five minutes
HIGNFYou
Driving through a wall
Donnez moi un break
He's often good at the "impromptu" stuff and he can be absolutely brilliant at staged TV, but in general he's a poor speaker, especially at conferences
I remembering Boris tripping up as he walked to the mike stand when he won the London mayoralty and saying, 'Ah... Ken's final booby trap!' (or something alike that). I thought it was quite a good ad-lib at the time, but it was probably all completely planned.
Yes, again, it is little images and vignettes
Boris throwing the basketball and somehow scoring from miles away
Boris stuck on the zipline with the flags
Boris doing that hand up Feel the Force thing and the cameraman falling over
Boris in absurd shorts and shirt combo on holiday
Cartoon images. But in an instagram age, this visual memorability may be a key asset
True, and I suspect that in previous eras, BoJo wouldn't have got anywhere near as far up the greasy pole as he has.
But his great successes have come where he's had a good editor. HIGYFY famously records loads of material to pick out the goodies for a half hour show. (It's not cheating, it's the only way to make a topical comedy show any good. I've been to recordings of The News Quiz and The Now Show, and the stuff on the cutting room floor mostly deserves to be there.) The same goes for those iconic images- the zipline, the Love Actually parody, the driving a small forklift through a Styrofoam wall. They're bloody good images.
But they depend on the suspension of disbelief in a moment in time. You have to ignore the "hey, that Love Actually guy was actually a bit creepy hitting on someone who has just got married". You have to switch off the before and after for the zipline. You have to not question "what if it's not as simple as driving through Styrofoam?"
And Boris's problem as PM is he doesn't get a good editor. We all see the before and the after. And at some point between 0 and 10 years time, that will destroy him. I don't know when, but I'm fairly confident about how.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
I like the Democracy the Torys have forced on the trade unions. Have to win a vote to go off and talk and come back with a deal, but members get a vote on if it is indeed better and acceptable when knowing more about what they are getting.
By coming up with that, could the Tory’s have defined democracy any fairer and stronger?
It's interesting about policing, unfortunately it really is a few bad apples, to use that awful phrase. The MET are universally disliked by pretty much every other force, their institutional arrogance (a feature of larger metropolitan forces seemingly) causes many of these problems. Strip them of many national focussed roles and either move them to the NCA or regional hubs, possibly. How do we change, is a particularly challenging issue, I'd probably give the IOPC greater powers, funding and increase their scrutiny around corruption, I'd wager it would only take 1 or 2 cases to massively move things towards a better place, but keep the pressure on. Politicians need to stop being either for or against and work for positive change, listen to the rank and file (not the Federation, a union which fights for its members, as it should, but by definition a very conservative organisation) they have good ideas and recognise where they need to change and how best to achieve it. Force forces to adopt best practice, if they don't hold them to account. Promote less conservative leaders. Fund the criminal justice system at all levels properly. That's how I'd start anyway.
It is not a few rotten apples. See the article I posted upthread.
The IOPC are worse than useless.
The Greater Manchester Police has had similar problems and a report has just come out which shows it to be as bad as the Met. Incidentally, if anyone paid any attention to it, it would cast a poor light on Andy Burnham who seems to have been utterly feeble. Worth reading the reports by Jennifer Williams in the Manchester press. She's a very good journalist.
The senior cadre needs kicking out and we need some good leaders like Sir Robert Mark in charge. Where the hell we'd find them God only knows.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
Or take credit for the problem being resolved - which it would have been either way.
If the media/panic buyers get the blame for this crisis, and he can be the leader who got it resolved, then win/win.
Who cares if it would have been resolved without his or the militaries involvement anyway?
Goes back to the conversation earlier today here about Boris being sly and cunning.
Whatever the reason, having your population queuing for petrol is not a good look. From reading foreign media reports, you'd get the impression that the UK isn't far off becoming a failed state!
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
No because there never needed to be a panic in the first place. This has been entirely concocted by people acting with malicious intent, wilfully aided by the stupid media.
So how are you going to restrain the media in future?
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
No because there never needed to be a panic in the first place. This has been entirely concocted by people acting with malicious intent, wilfully aided by the stupid media.
The media argument that "we know it's not serious but it is news so we have to report it" is annoying me. That's cobblers, there must be 100 more serious problems every week that they could report on if they wanted to. In particular some of the newspapers deliberately went completely overboard in their reporting. There was no need to do that, it was not in the public interest, and I'm sure the people doing so were quite aware they were overstating the severity of the problem.
Covid has already shown why there was censorship during the war, and again the press demonstrate that sometimes you have to gag the idiots, as left to their own devices they can be downright dangerous.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
The other fact that came out today at the Old Bailey was that Couzens wiped his phone only minutes before he was arrested. How very coincidental and convenient.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
No because there never needed to be a panic in the first place. This has been entirely concocted by people acting with malicious intent, wilfully aided by the stupid media.
So how are you going to restrain the media in future?
No idea. I can diagnose the problem but I have no idea how to fix it. I listened all day to 5live constantly pushing the story, and saying ‘there is no need to panic buy’. I doubt Darren Brown could have pushed ‘panic buy’ better into the public consciousness.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
The status quo before was about eight petrol stations being low. For 99.9% of people there were no shortages.
That wasn't the status quo. That was a new development. Even without any media coverage it's likely that a steadily increasing number of service stations would have begun to run low. That's what happens if supplies are falling behind sales as seems likely given the lack of drivers and an expanding petrol consumption.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I'm actually ashamed of myself for forgetting this. Starmer wanted to do a Trump on Brexit, he wanted to reverse democracy, and make Britain some kind of banana republic. And I was falling for his "nice guy" shtick
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
He was also in charge of the CPS when the Rotherham grooming gangs were being investigated. But I doubt if his record there will be of interest to many.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
And how long will the troops be helping out? Indefinitely? Or will we be seeing another panic when they are withdrawn?
The status quo before was about eight petrol stations being low. For 99.9% of people there were no shortages.
That wasn't the status quo. That was a new development. Even without any media coverage it's likely that a steadily increasing number of service stations would have begun to run low. That's what happens if supplies are falling behind sales as seems likely given the lack of drivers and an expanding petrol consumption.
I thought it was, since the meeting was several weeks prior to it all kicking off. I don't think the situation had deteriorated in the interim.
The other fact that came out today at the Old Bailey was that Couzens wiped his phone only minutes before he was arrested. How very coincidental and convenient.
There should be a formal enquiry into how Couzens was still in the police and how the case was handled.
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
Or take credit for the problem being resolved - which it would have been either way.
If the media/panic buyers get the blame for this crisis, and he can be the leader who got it resolved, then win/win.
Who cares if it would have been resolved without his or the militaries involvement anyway?
Goes back to the conversation earlier today here about Boris being sly and cunning.
Whatever the reason, having your population queuing for petrol is not a good look. From reading foreign media reports, you'd get the impression that the UK isn't far off becoming a failed state!
Failed state? Oh give over!
This isn't the first time that panic buyers have caused a clear out and it won't be the last. The irony is perhaps that its happened so often recently, with the toilet paper etc, that people are rather immune to the surprise of it and know full well that dingbats are to blame.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
Was there ever talk of having another referendum without a GE first? It’s all so bonkers and long ago I can barely believe it was even tried on
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
Hate to shit on your fake news/smear but Operation Midland began in 2014 and Starmer stopped being DPP in 2013.
What they did is show highlights to a sample of 1330, and compared it with previous similar experiments with first-time leader speeches - he did better (5.9/10) than Corbyn 2015 (5.1), who in turn did better than Johnson 2019 (4.1).
Which shows the limitations, since Johnson actually won. But although most people won't have seen this speech, it does suggest that he comes across well when people listen to him - and there will be plenty more opportunities for that as we emerge from lockdown. The key finding is probably that 63% agreed with what he had to say, vs. 29% who didn't.
Worth remembering that, for all his real talents, BoJo is a surprisingly poor live public speaker. He's not done the mythical 10 000 hours of slogging away trying to convince a hostile (and sober) audience.
Overall, it works for him, but it's noticeable.
Yes, indeed
When I was compiling my "conference speeches I remember" list (see below for more excitement!) it struck me that I can't remember a single line of a Boris conference speech, not even a joke, I don't think - and he tells pretty good jokes
What I do remember is the PR and the stunts and the TV shows
The TV Love Actually rip off advert - superb, one of the best electoral ads I've ever seen
The interview where he speaks Ancient Greek from the Iliad for five minutes
HIGNFYou
Driving through a wall
Donnez moi un break
He's often good at the "impromptu" stuff and he can be absolutely brilliant at staged TV, but in general he's a poor speaker, especially at conferences
I remembering Boris tripping up as he walked to the mike stand when he won the London mayoralty and saying, 'Ah... Ken's final booby trap!' (or something alike that). I thought it was quite a good ad-lib at the time, but it was probably all completely planned.
Yes, again, it is little images and vignettes
Boris throwing the basketball and somehow scoring from miles away
Boris stuck on the zipline with the flags
Boris doing that hand up Feel the Force thing and the cameraman falling over
Boris in absurd shorts and shirt combo on holiday
Cartoon images. But in an instagram age, this visual memorability may be a key asset
True, and I suspect that in previous eras, BoJo wouldn't have got anywhere near as far up the greasy pole as he has.
But his great successes have come where he's had a good editor. HIGYFY famously records loads of material to pick out the goodies for a half hour show. (It's not cheating, it's the only way to make a topical comedy show any good. I've been to recordings of The News Quiz and The Now Show, and the stuff on the cutting room floor mostly deserves to be there.) The same goes for those iconic images- the zipline, the Love Actually parody, the driving a small forklift through a Styrofoam wall. They're bloody good images.
But they depend on the suspension of disbelief in a moment in time. You have to ignore the "hey, that Love Actually guy was actually a bit creepy hitting on someone who has just got married". You have to switch off the before and after for the zipline. You have to not question "what if it's not as simple as driving through Styrofoam?"
And Boris's problem as PM is he doesn't get a good editor. We all see the before and the after. And at some point between 0 and 10 years time, that will destroy him. I don't know when, but I'm fairly confident about how.
This is hardly a revelation. All political careers end in failure
My guess is Boris will go around 2025-26 after scraping one more victory
However it should be noted that about a year ago I was predicting he would retire early in 2021
Boris has a tendency to surprise, and, generally, he tends to surprise on the upside. He wins at mayoralties when he should lose. He gets 80 seat majorities no one expected. Even as you scoff, do not underestimate him
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
So Remoaners wanted to cancel democracy by having a vote, but they were thwarted by Brexshitters holding a vote.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
Starmer had left by the time of the Carl Beech allegations, if that is what you mean.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
Was there ever talk of having another referendum without a GE first? It’s all so bonkers and long ago I can barely believe it was even tried on
What they did is show highlights to a sample of 1330, and compared it with previous similar experiments with first-time leader speeches - he did better (5.9/10) than Corbyn 2015 (5.1), who in turn did better than Johnson 2019 (4.1).
Which shows the limitations, since Johnson actually won. But although most people won't have seen this speech, it does suggest that he comes across well when people listen to him - and there will be plenty more opportunities for that as we emerge from lockdown. The key finding is probably that 63% agreed with what he had to say, vs. 29% who didn't.
Worth remembering that, for all his real talents, BoJo is a surprisingly poor live public speaker. He's not done the mythical 10 000 hours of slogging away trying to convince a hostile (and sober) audience.
Overall, it works for him, but it's noticeable.
Yes, indeed
When I was compiling my "conference speeches I remember" list (see below for more excitement!) it struck me that I can't remember a single line of a Boris conference speech, not even a joke, I don't think - and he tells pretty good jokes
What I do remember is the PR and the stunts and the TV shows
The TV Love Actually rip off advert - superb, one of the best electoral ads I've ever seen
The interview where he speaks Ancient Greek from the Iliad for five minutes
HIGNFYou
Driving through a wall
Donnez moi un break
He's often good at the "impromptu" stuff and he can be absolutely brilliant at staged TV, but in general he's a poor speaker, especially at conferences
I remembering Boris tripping up as he walked to the mike stand when he won the London mayoralty and saying, 'Ah... Ken's final booby trap!' (or something alike that). I thought it was quite a good ad-lib at the time, but it was probably all completely planned.
Yes, again, it is little images and vignettes
Boris throwing the basketball and somehow scoring from miles away
Boris stuck on the zipline with the flags
Boris doing that hand up Feel the Force thing and the cameraman falling over
Boris in absurd shorts and shirt combo on holiday
Cartoon images. But in an instagram age, this visual memorability may be a key asset
Boris with a broom after the London Riots of 2011.
Two outstanding women have just been given Special Recognition Awards for communication and public engagement at #TheBMJAwards: Profs @chrischirp & @devisridhar
There’s so much disinformation & it can be hard to find trusted sources; if you don’t already - please follow them!
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
So Remoaners wanted to cancel democracy by having a vote, but they were thwarted by Brexshitters holding a vote.
It's all so simple really.
But we’d already had a vote. And the only reason they wanted to have another one was because they lost
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
He was also in charge of the CPS when the Rotherham grooming gangs were being investigated. But I doubt if his record there will be of interest to many.
Really? I reckon that will be the basis of a smear campaign at the next election.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
A second vote at any time would have been wrong, without enacting the first.
But Starmer went further, he wanted a 2nd vote whatever, before an election, no problem
"PoliticsHome has learned that Mr Lavery accused Sir Keir, the Shadow Brexit Secretary, of trying to "ram down my throat" his support for a referendum before a general election."
The other fact that came out today at the Old Bailey was that Couzens wiped his phone only minutes before he was arrested. How very coincidental and convenient.
From my header earlier this year -
"Despite his planning and attempts to cover his tracks, he gave his police mobile number to the firm from which he hired the car he used for the kidnap. That mistake (or arrogance) was what caught him."
Arrogance? Or did he have a mate who could be relied on to wipe that from the record? Or who tipped him off?
Those are the sorts of questions an investigator should be asking now.
Instead we're getting the full spin campaign about how disgusted the police are.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
Was there ever talk of having another referendum without a GE first? It’s all so bonkers and long ago I can barely believe it was even tried on
Boris's brother Jo? He wanted a 'people's vote', knew the Tories wouldn't offer one and didn't campaign for Labour, so presumably he wanted a second referendum to appear out of thin air. (But he and Boris are still speaking I believe.)
"Despite reassurances things were improving"? Things are improving. Most stations are already back to normal which is precisely why there was never any reason to panic buy.
Then why send the Troops in now? 🤔
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
Or take credit for the problem being resolved - which it would have been either way.
If the media/panic buyers get the blame for this crisis, and he can be the leader who got it resolved, then win/win.
Who cares if it would have been resolved without his or the militaries involvement anyway?
Goes back to the conversation earlier today here about Boris being sly and cunning.
Whatever the reason, having your population queuing for petrol is not a good look. From reading foreign media reports, you'd get the impression that the UK isn't far off becoming a failed state!
Failed state? Oh give over!
This isn't the first time that panic buyers have caused a clear out and it won't be the last. The irony is perhaps that its happened so often recently, with the toilet paper etc, that people are rather immune to the surprise of it and know full well that dingbats are to blame.
Yes, the foreign press, like ours, are prone to exaggeration. None of them have managed to incide a run on petrol though.
You only need a one spark to start a forest fire, but it'll only happen if the ground is tinder dry.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
So Remoaners wanted to cancel democracy by having a vote, but they were thwarted by Brexshitters holding a vote.
It's all so simple really.
It’s easy to mock that, but the problem was it was done in bad faith. Retainers tried to use the idea of a new referendum as a backdrop way to overturning the vote. I’m sure they believed that was the right thing for the country. But it enraged many, even among those who had voted remain, but thought Brexit needed to be done. The fiction of having the ‘best’ leave deal vs remain was a joke, as we have seen in the last 5 years. What is the best deal? No one know, and it will take many years to find out.
Two outstanding women have just been given Special Recognition Awards for communication and public engagement at #TheBMJAwards: Profs @chrischirp & @devisridhar
There’s so much disinformation & it can be hard to find trusted sources; if you don’t already - please follow them!
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I'm actually ashamed of myself for forgetting this. Starmer wanted to do a Trump on Brexit, he wanted to reverse democracy, and make Britain some kind of banana republic. And I was falling for his "nice guy" shtick
UGH, what a fraud. NEVER STARMER
Oh please, "Reverse democracy"? At least Starmer was proposing a second vote. Johnson has just reversed freedom of movement, or should I say partially reversed? Johnny Foreigner can come over here to work, whilst we can't reciprocate, and without another referendum.
A floating voter friend of mine - soft Remain, but hates Remoaners - has texted me
"Watched a bit of Keir. I like him. He's honest. I'm bored of Boris. I will vote for Keir next time"
He's in a quasi-marginal and voted Tory in 2019.....
Philip Thompson is right! The electorate are going to be an ungrateful bunch towards everything Boris has done for them.
Why do you keep [mis]quoting me? Especially for things I haven't said the way you say it?
It's weird and a little creepy.
You said it in an answer to my post after the new tax was introduced. That they could be ungrateful and not stick with him.
What do you (mistakenly) claim you said?
Saying people "could be ungrateful" is different from saying people "are going to be an ungrateful bunch". You don't see the difference?
People don't generally do gratitude in politics but I would never call people "an ungrateful bunch" that's just unnecessarily rude. That isn't how I speak.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
A good try at muck raking, but I think there is 12 months between his time as DPP and the operation midland.
"Starmer shifts Labour towards second EU referendum
"The frontbencher stresses the party's commitment to consider a further Brexit vote if it could not force a general election."
"The frontbencher argued the point had been reached where Labour had agreed that if a general election could not be secured then the party "must" consider all options on the table, including a further public vote.
Stressing the importance of the previously made commitment, he insisted it was "one we must keep"."
He literally claimed that ignoring the first vote and then having a 2nd to try and reverse it was about "keeping promises"
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
Hate to shit on your fake news/smear but Operation Midland began in 2014 and Starmer stopped being DPP in 2013.
A decent Tory election machine should be able to use this 2nd referendum Trumpite Starmer bollocks to utterly trash Starmer. It is all there, online. He can't erase it, he can't lie and say it didn't happen
Two outstanding women have just been given Special Recognition Awards for communication and public engagement at #TheBMJAwards: Profs @chrischirp & @devisridhar
There’s so much disinformation & it can be hard to find trusted sources; if you don’t already - please follow them!
Siri, define irony.
Well, they've certainly engaged the media, if not the public. Never off the TV rolling news.
Whether that has helped spread trusted sources I leave as an exercise.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
Hate to shit on your fake news/smear but Operation Midland began in 2014 and Starmer stopped being DPP in 2013.
What is the best deal? No one know, and it will take many years to find out.
We do know.
The best deal was the one we tore up.
It may take years for Brexiteers to admit it, but it is already known.
So certain are you... Give it time. The current lack of hgv drivers would eventually lead to higher pay and better conditions for Hgv drivers. That’s what the market does. I’ve seen it in pharmacy over the years. Train more pharmacists, eventually pay goes down, and conditions get worse. The issue is how do you handle the short term adjustment. In the transport industry the bosses want to keep costs low and keep using foreign labour. We voted not to do that, but we need to stand firm and sort our own house. But you wont care, because you already know the answer.
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
Where was Starmer in his DPP role in the matter of the false VIP child abuse scandal which ruined several prominent peoples' lives? That should not be forgotten.
Hate to shit on your fake news/smear but Operation Midland began in 2014 and Starmer stopped being DPP in 2013.
The link is that it was Starmers ‘believe the claimant’ policy that caused Proctor so much unnecessary harm. In that case some fairly obvious basic background checks would have shown it all to be a pack of lies, such as talking to Beeches ex wife.
Sky News in Bassetlaw - “the kind of place Starmer must win back”
I don’t think that’s right.
It's not. Labour target 159, the mining link is long gone here.
So who lives there now? I suspect it is classic swing territory as young families, commuters and Amazon warehouse workers for nearby Ashfield and Mansfield outnumber the ex miners.
Sounds like exactly where Labour should be trying to turn the tide.
"Starmer shifts Labour towards second EU referendum
"The frontbencher stresses the party's commitment to consider a further Brexit vote if it could not force a general election."
"The frontbencher argued the point had been reached where Labour had agreed that if a general election could not be secured then the party "must" consider all options on the table, including a further public vote.
Stressing the importance of the previously made commitment, he insisted it was "one we must keep"."
He literally claimed that ignoring the first vote and then having a 2nd to try and reverse it was about "keeping promises"
While people are mildly praising Starmer today, remember that, as Shadow Brexit Minister, he wanted to cancel British democracy and call a 2nd referendum , before we'd even enacted the first
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
May not play so well when Captain Foresight is thought to be correct by such a high percentage of the population.
It really doesn't matter. He wanted to cancel democracy. UGH
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
No, he wanted to let the public choose whether to back the Deal or not.
No, it really really fucking isn't. You could not put REMAIN on the ballot sheet. It was an attempt to reverse the vote, to destroy democracy, without ever acknowledging or enacting the first vote. It was evil
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
The public did get a say. When Sir Keir’s stop Brexit ruse was put to them at the GE, they left labour in their droves
I think you've just killed off Leon's argument: the public could have democratically chosen to give themselves another vote; they democratically chose not to.
So Remoaners wanted to cancel democracy by having a vote, but they were thwarted by Brexshitters holding a vote.
It's all so simple really.
It’s easy to mock that, but the problem was it was done in bad faith. Retainers tried to use the idea of a new referendum as a backdrop way to overturning the vote. I’m sure they believed that was the right thing for the country. But it enraged many, even among those who had voted remain, but thought Brexit needed to be done. The fiction of having the ‘best’ leave deal vs remain was a joke, as we have seen in the last 5 years. What is the best deal? No one know, and it will take many years to find out.
The greatest irony, of course, is that by acting in such bad faith and trying to overturn Brexit, and ignore democracy, Remoaners like Starmer ensured the hardest Brexit possible
If they had accepted Brexit from the get go, and pursued a supersoft Brexit: staying in the SM and keeping FoM, that is what would have happened. Leavers like Hannan would have compromised, a lot of angst would have been avoided, and we could have spent a decade in EEA/EFTA deciding what we want long term
That would also have given Remoaners a pretty easy way back in to the EU, one day
Instead they played into the hands of the Hardest of Hard Brexiteers, and fucked it all up for themselves
A decent Tory election machine should be able to use this 2nd referendum Trumpite Starmer bollocks to utterly trash Starmer. It is all there, online. He can't erase it, he can't lie and say it didn't happen
Wanker
There's a problem, though, if Brexit turns out not to be that popular by the time the next election comes about. I hear your heartfelt cry that you think it was wrong to seek a 2nd referendum, but it's possibly not the easiest sell in the world, telling people that seeking a referendum is undemocratic. Again, not seeking to argue the point with you, just pointing out the presentational difficulties.
Additionally, Labour lost a lot of voters in 2019. 11% of them went to the Conservatives, but 9% of them went to the Lib Dems. That's a baseline indication for 2017 Labour voters breaking pro- or anti-Brexit. If Brexit becomes a less salient issue or a less popular outcome, focusing heavily on it might not work out well. It's entirely possible it could even pave the way for Starmer to become PM.
Comments
That shows astonishing lack of judgement, and political morals. He was happy, indeed eager to ignore the votes of 17.4m people - the largest vote in British history - just because he didn't like what they said. Because he knew better
"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on."
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/keir-starmer-labour-is-committed-to-a-second-referendum-a4243906.html
Starmer is an absolute fucking fraud. Posing as the decent honest common sense guy. He wanted to destroy democracy
Fuck him. I hope the Tories use this "minor detail" properly and ruthlessly, and destroy him. It must not ever be forgotten: what Remoaners like Starmer proposed to do. It is no better than what Trumpites wanted to do at the Capitol
Next Dr Who - 73%
The MET are universally disliked by pretty much every other force, their institutional arrogance (a feature of larger metropolitan forces seemingly) causes many of these problems. Strip them of many national focussed roles and either move them to the NCA or regional hubs, possibly.
How do we change, is a particularly challenging issue, I'd probably give the IOPC greater powers, funding and increase their scrutiny around corruption, I'd wager it would only take 1 or 2 cases to massively move things towards a better place, but keep the pressure on.
Politicians need to stop being either for or against and work for positive change, listen to the rank and file (not the Federation, a union which fights for its members, as it should, but by definition a very conservative organisation) they have good ideas and recognise where they need to change and how best to achieve it.
Force forces to adopt best practice, if they don't hold them to account.
Promote less conservative leaders.
Fund the criminal justice system at all levels properly.
That's how I'd start anyway.
Stravaigan is superb
There are a too many people filling up at the same time who don't normally.
It's loo roll all over again.
Some sort of assessment rolling news in places of closed stations will just prolong it even further? That the original problem that sparked it hasn’t gone away?
He needs to apologise for this, at the very least
I take back every nice thing I said about Starmer, earlier today. I'd quite forgotten that this was his Brexit stance. Repulsive. And be bangs on about morals and decency? Pass the sick-bag, VOM
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/12/if-not-now-when/
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/06/16/the-rise-and-fall-of-cressida-dick/
If the media/panic buyers get the blame for this crisis, and he can be the leader who got it resolved, then win/win.
Who cares if it would have been resolved without his or the militaries involvement anyway?
Goes back to the conversation earlier today here about Boris being sly and cunning.
It's weird and a little creepy.
For millions this is basically their only news of the day.
But his great successes have come where he's had a good editor. HIGYFY famously records loads of material to pick out the goodies for a half hour show. (It's not cheating, it's the only way to make a topical comedy show any good. I've been to recordings of The News Quiz and The Now Show, and the stuff on the cutting room floor mostly deserves to be there.) The same goes for those iconic images- the zipline, the Love Actually parody, the driving a small forklift through a Styrofoam wall. They're bloody good images.
But they depend on the suspension of disbelief in a moment in time. You have to ignore the "hey, that Love Actually guy was actually a bit creepy hitting on someone who has just got married". You have to switch off the before and after for the zipline. You have to not question "what if it's not as simple as driving through Styrofoam?"
And Boris's problem as PM is he doesn't get a good editor. We all see the before and the after. And at some point between 0 and 10 years time, that will destroy him. I don't know when, but I'm fairly confident about how.
By coming up with that, could the Tory’s have defined democracy any fairer and stronger?
The IOPC are worse than useless.
The Greater Manchester Police has had similar problems and a report has just come out which shows it to be as bad as the Met. Incidentally, if anyone paid any attention to it, it would cast a poor light on Andy Burnham who seems to have been utterly feeble. Worth reading the reports by Jennifer Williams in the Manchester press. She's a very good journalist.
The senior cadre needs kicking out and we need some good leaders like Sir Robert Mark in charge. Where the hell we'd find them God only knows.
Here's a mindgame for the hard of thinking Remoaners like you
Imagine if Scotland had voted YES by 52-48 in 2014. Voted for independence
Would anyone - anyone - in their right minds, have proposed "ignoring" this vote because it was wrong, because independence was impossible, or difficult, or because the voters were stupid, racist or misinformed? Would ANY British or Scottish government have proposed ANOTHER Scottish indy referendum, with NO on the ballot, without even bothering to enact the first one, making Scotland independent?
Of course not. No way. It would have been the fast track to civil war and blood on the streets of Scotland. It would have been an act of insane immorality.
Why is Scotland any different to Britain? It is not. We voted. That vote had to be enacted. Brexit had to be done, even if you hated it, Because anything else would have destroyed British democracy for a century (who bother voting for anything if they can just ignore it??) and it might easily have led to major violence on the streets
THAT is what Remoaners wanted to do. That is what Starmer wanted to do. We must never ever forget.
It was Trump's march on the Capitol, except it was ever so polite and British and middle class and genteel
Covid has already shown why there was censorship during the war, and again the press demonstrate that sometimes you have to gag the idiots, as left to their own devices they can be downright dangerous.
What do you (mistakenly) claim you said?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58740507
UGH, what a fraud. NEVER STARMER
This isn't the first time that panic buyers have caused a clear out and it won't be the last. The irony is perhaps that its happened so often recently, with the toilet paper etc, that people are rather immune to the surprise of it and know full well that dingbats are to blame.
I don’t think that’s right.
My guess is Boris will go around 2025-26 after scraping one more victory
However it should be noted that about a year ago I was predicting he would retire early in 2021
Boris has a tendency to surprise, and, generally, he tends to surprise on the upside. He wins at mayoralties when he should lose. He gets 80 seat majorities no one expected. Even as you scoff, do not underestimate him
It's all so simple really.
@theAliceRoberts
Two outstanding women have just been given Special Recognition Awards for communication and public engagement at #TheBMJAwards: Profs @chrischirp & @devisridhar
There’s so much disinformation & it can be hard to find trusted sources; if you don’t already - please follow them!
But Starmer went further, he wanted a 2nd vote whatever, before an election, no problem
"PoliticsHome has learned that Mr Lavery accused Sir Keir, the Shadow Brexit Secretary, of trying to "ram down my throat" his support for a referendum before a general election."
BEFORE
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/ian-lavery-rounds-on-keir-starmer-over-second-referendum-as-labour-splits-on-brexit-erupt
"Despite his planning and attempts to cover his tracks, he gave his police mobile number to the firm from which he hired the car he used for the kidnap. That mistake (or arrogance) was what caught him."
Arrogance? Or did he have a mate who could be relied on to wipe that from the record? Or who tipped him off?
Those are the sorts of questions an investigator should be asking now.
Instead we're getting the full spin campaign about how disgusted the police are.
You only need a one spark to start a forest fire, but it'll only happen if the ground is tinder dry.
People don't generally do gratitude in politics but I would never call people "an ungrateful bunch" that's just unnecessarily rude. That isn't how I speak.
The best deal was the one we tore up.
It may take years for Brexiteers to admit it, but it is already known.
"Starmer shifts Labour towards second EU referendum
"The frontbencher stresses the party's commitment to consider a further Brexit vote if it could not force a general election."
"The frontbencher argued the point had been reached where Labour had agreed that if a general election could not be secured then the party "must" consider all options on the table, including a further public vote.
Stressing the importance of the previously made commitment, he insisted it was "one we must keep"."
He literally claimed that ignoring the first vote and then having a 2nd to try and reverse it was about "keeping promises"
https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-shifts-labour-towards-second-eu-referendum-11611558
There's tons of this. From 2016-2019 Starmer was furiously trying to cancel Brexit, and do a little coup, just because he didn't like Brexit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9628883/sir-keir-starmer-vip-carl-beech-paedo-ring/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9391475/Keir-Starmer-accused-sitting-fence-calls-public-inquiry-paedophile-probe.html
bollocks to utterly trash Starmer. It is all there, online. He can't erase it, he can't lie and say it didn't happen
Wanker
Of course they should target it regardless, maybe because it's a seat they need to win a majority, not sure
Whether that has helped spread trusted sources I leave as an exercise.
Operation Midland began in November 2014.
Starmer stood down as DPP in November 2013.
Perhaps you can show me evidence otherwise?
But you wont care, because you already know the answer.
OTOH it was Labour until 2019 so some swingback to Labour could be possible considering it was always theirs before then.
Sounds like exactly where Labour should be trying to turn the tide.
If they had accepted Brexit from the get go, and pursued a supersoft Brexit: staying in the SM and keeping FoM, that is what would have happened. Leavers like Hannan would have compromised, a lot of angst would have been avoided, and we could have spent a decade in EEA/EFTA deciding what we want long term
That would also have given Remoaners a pretty easy way back in to the EU, one day
Instead they played into the hands of the Hardest of Hard Brexiteers, and fucked it all up for themselves
I hear your heartfelt cry that you think it was wrong to seek a 2nd referendum, but it's possibly not the easiest sell in the world, telling people that seeking a referendum is undemocratic.
Again, not seeking to argue the point with you, just pointing out the presentational difficulties.
Additionally, Labour lost a lot of voters in 2019. 11% of them went to the Conservatives, but 9% of them went to the Lib Dems. That's a baseline indication for 2017 Labour voters breaking pro- or anti-Brexit. If Brexit becomes a less salient issue or a less popular outcome, focusing heavily on it might not work out well. It's entirely possible it could even pave the way for Starmer to become PM.
Just a thought.