Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Given that employers havent trained enough people or paid those they have sufficient to retain them, why on earth do we think employers know best ? Employers bet the farm on a system that moved core skills outside the UK and have now been caught out horribly when a major crisis rolled over the horizon.
Not as if the DfT were doing their best to keep testing the necessary skills, though.
I haven't seen a single spokesperson for a firm come on the media and say that they've got recruits but they can't get tests for them.
What I have seen is people whine that pay rises are happening so we need immigration.
If we'd had six months of people saying "we need more tests" instead of "we need more low wage immigration" this would have been a very different conversation.
The employing firms generally don't do (much) training. They previously employed people who could drive already or contracted with them.
Training îs a dirty word in many companies in the UK. Like crevice.
Élysée readout: “Boris Johnson expressed his intention to reestablish cooperation between France & the UK, in line with our values & our shared interests (climate, IndoPacific, CT). The President responded that he was waiting for his proposals"
Here's the Downing St readout, rather different in tone
I am almost tempted to speculate that Boris insisted in conducting the entire conversation in his Franglais, just for the LOLs.
“prenez un grip” and “donnez-moi un break” . Genius.
The best bit is that Boris speaks perfect fluent French and could easily go there and live without anyone realising he's not French were he not Boris. He's said it specifically to annoy Macron.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Given that employers havent trained enough people or paid those they have sufficient to retain them, why on earth do we think employers know best ? Employers bet the farm on a system that moved core skills outside the UK and have now been caught out horribly when a major crisis rolled over the horizon.
Not as if the DfT were doing their best to keep testing the necessary skills, though.
I haven't seen a single spokesperson for a firm come on the media and say that they've got recruits but they can't get tests for them.
What I have seen is people whine that pay rises are happening so we need immigration.
If we'd had six months of people saying "we need more tests" instead of "we need more low wage immigration" this would have been a very different conversation.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Given that employers havent trained enough people or paid those they have sufficient to retain them, why on earth do we think employers know best ? Employers bet the farm on a system that moved core skills outside the UK and have now been caught out horribly when a major crisis rolled over the horizon.
Looking forward to hearing your 5 year plan, Chairman Al.
My 2 year plan for HGV drivers
Now 1 permit for every 4 UK drivers you employ March 2022 1 permit per 5 UK drivers - to qualify that 5th driver most be newly trained October 2022 1 permit per 6 UK drivers - to qualify 2 drivers most be newly trained June 2023 1 permit per 8 drivers - to qualify 3 drivers must be newly trained January 2024 all work permits removed.
Odds on Taiwan being invaded before the year ends?
Reasons this could happen: 1) domestic trouble in China's economy provokes a military adventure response to restore some goodwill 2) waving your guns around can help remind anyone thinking of protesting how that might go 3) AUKUS is nascent and wider allies (Japan, India, etc) are not collectively held together in a formal alliance so attacking now rather than waiting for an anti-China (or counter-China) alliance to really get going may be wise 4) Xi has been building up Chinese military strength for quite some time now (this is a general rather than time-specific point, of course)
The odds are 0%.
China has a strategy for Taiwan (dissent from within, constriction from without) that's working and will deliver Taiwan within a decade or two. They patiently waited 20+ years for Hong Kong.
That's at least what they hope. HK isn't remotely comparable, since it was certain they were going to get it back. Taiwan has an unfortunate and unpredictable thing called democracy, and not the 'misunderstood' version that apparently exists on the mainland.
The odds of something kicking off in the next decade are slightly higher than zero.
Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Agreed.
If you're going to have free movement then a sensible way to do it was posited earlier "free movement for anyone PAYE over £50k". Or something along those lines.
But I wouldn't restrict it to Europe, I'd have it global.
Let the high-skilled, high-wage jobs come here not deflate our economy with minimum wage jobs.
Why £50k?
I didn't say it, someone else did, I was quoting them.
While I believe in flat taxes, under our current system it kind of makes sense to be offering immigration to those on higher rate tax incomes.
So we suffer these shortages. Doesn't seem an optimal way to run a country.
Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Given that employers havent trained enough people or paid those they have sufficient to retain them, why on earth do we think employers know best ? Employers bet the farm on a system that moved core skills outside the UK and have now been caught out horribly when a major crisis rolled over the horizon.
Looking forward to hearing your 5 year plan, Chairman Al.
My 2 year plan for HGV drivers
Now 1 permit for every 4 UK drivers you employ March 2022 1 permit per 5 UK drivers - to qualify that 5th driver most be newly trained October 2022 1 permit per 6 UK drivers - to qualify 2 drivers most be newly trained June 2023 1 permit per 8 drivers - to qualify 3 drivers must be newly trained January 2024 all work permits removed.
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Élysée readout: “Boris Johnson expressed his intention to reestablish cooperation between France & the UK, in line with our values & our shared interests (climate, IndoPacific, CT). The President responded that he was waiting for his proposals"
Here's the Downing St readout, rather different in tone
I am almost tempted to speculate that Boris insisted in conducting the entire conversation in his Franglais, just for the LOLs.
“prenez un grip” and “donnez-moi un break” . Genius.
The best bit is that Boris speaks perfect fluent French and could easily go there and live without anyone realising he's not French were he not Boris. He's said it specifically to annoy Macron.
It increases the supply of labour to the detriment of the indigenous supply.
Confirming it was caused by Brexit.
Not the answer to the question I asked, but OK
The ending of freedom of movement through Brexit has seen wage increases, especially for the lower paid by the ending of cheap labour and has allowed us to tailor our immigration to attract higher paid workers into our economy where we have need
It is the success story of Brexit and I find it hard to believe that deep down you cannot just accept this
It can be said that Junckers should have conceded to Cameron on freedom of movement and to be honest the referendum would not have happened and we would still be in the EU if a compromise had been reached
There was absolutely nothing to stop anyone being paid more before we left the EU, of course. It's just that we decided to gut the trade union movement and remove just about every piece of leverage workers had to negotiate themselves better pay and conditions. It would be nice to think at least a few people now accept that was a mistake. But I doubt it. Next time we see any strikes that are about getting more pay for the low paid, the strikers will be routinely condemned, just as they always are.
If the Government considers that relaxing immigration rules is part of the solution isn't that also an admission that tightening immigration rules was part of the problem? https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1441386473794588679
This is the unenviable political and ideological pickle they've now got themselves into.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
If the Government considers that relaxing immigration rules is part of the solution isn't that also an admission that tightening immigration rules was part of the problem? https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1441386473794588679
You just do not get it
Leaving the EU allows us to control our immigration to meet our demand with higher paying wages and stopping the undercutting of the UK workforce with cheap overseas labour
It was why the recent immigration act was passed to allow visa quotas
Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Agreed.
If you're going to have free movement then a sensible way to do it was posited earlier "free movement for anyone PAYE over £50k". Or something along those lines.
But I wouldn't restrict it to Europe, I'd have it global.
Let the high-skilled, high-wage jobs come here not deflate our economy with minimum wage jobs.
Why £50k?
I didn't say it, someone else did, I was quoting them.
While I believe in flat taxes, under our current system it kind of makes sense to be offering immigration to those on higher rate tax incomes.
So we suffer these shortages. Doesn't seem an optimal way to run a country.
Yes if people aren't prepared to pay market rates they don't get their goods moved. No problem with that. Those who are prepared to do so will pay more which will fund the drivers getting a decent salary.
I am glad the emergency cabinet meeting convened to resolve that was not a problem at all has managed to find a solution that is completely unnecessary to avoid any further bad headlines for BoZo and chums...
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Pay them enough and people will do the job.
For self-entitled bosses like @RochdalePioneers no an 11% pay rise if you're struggling with a competitive sector and want to get people to return from other sectors is not a massive or shocking pay rise.
So you do not understand the words "inelasticity of labour supply". Since you do not understand this you continue to spout abject drivel. You are making a fool of yourself.
I understand it. I disagree with it.
There are plenty of people who are fully qualified but have retired or quit the profession because the pay and conditions are shit. A single 10% pay rise, or a 34% pay rise (which IR35 could claim all of apparently) is pathetic in the circumstances.
As I said repeatedly, in America 'teamsters' can be on over $100k and they cope fine doing that. Its a difficult job that's away from home a lot - pay whatever it takes to get people doing it. Don't just take the easy way out.
again - are you 100% sure those people can come back and start work immediately - as I suspect 90%+ of them can't
Yes, aren't licence renewal tests also massively backlogged as well? Also the absolute payrise for them may only be £5-7k take home vs delivering for Sainsbury's or Amazon which allows them to go home every evening to spend time with the family.
There's no easy solution to this issue, truck driving is a shit job. It's like working on an oil platform. No one really wants to do it so paying high wages is the only way to get anyone interested.
The government should legislate to say that insurance companies cannot use age or experience when setting HGV insurance rates. Then long distance trucking would become a young man's game, with drivers able to move to local routes when they want a family life
You do realise that the army has got tanker drivers, right?
Yes.
And my question was are they already driving ambulances in Scotland, or in Northern Ireland?
How stupid are you?
The army has 357 close support tankers, less all those overseas/on active duty. I'd be surprised if their pool of available tanker drivers would make that much difference.
Boris Johnson has given the go-ahead to ministers to relax UK immigration rules to allow more foreign truck drivers into the country to ease shortages at petrol stations and wider economic disruption.
Refer to my earlier post today. Would they tough out the rebalancing of the UK haulage industry or cave. They caved.
How long until restaurant owners want the same deal, or hoteliers, or pub chains? Boris bottled it.
The problem is in the government thinking that they know better than employers which workers are in demand.
Given that employers havent trained enough people or paid those they have sufficient to retain them, why on earth do we think employers know best ? Employers bet the farm on a system that moved core skills outside the UK and have now been caught out horribly when a major crisis rolled over the horizon.
Looking forward to hearing your 5 year plan, Chairman Al.
My 2 year plan for HGV drivers
Now 1 permit for every 4 UK drivers you employ March 2022 1 permit per 5 UK drivers - to qualify that 5th driver most be newly trained October 2022 1 permit per 6 UK drivers - to qualify 2 drivers most be newly trained June 2023 1 permit per 8 drivers - to qualify 3 drivers must be newly trained January 2024 all work permits removed.
That's actually a good plan.
This stuff really isn't difficult - you just need to know the carrot and the stick.
But I lay odds that the plan announced today will solve none of the problems when (as shown above) you can easily solve the lot.
Élysée readout: “Boris Johnson expressed his intention to reestablish cooperation between France & the UK, in line with our values & our shared interests (climate, IndoPacific, CT). The President responded that he was waiting for his proposals"
Here's the Downing St readout, rather different in tone
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
But Tories don't. It's the definition of being a Tory through the centuries. Which means something has to give at some point.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
I think it's fantastic. I'd love to see an expansion of Trade Unionism for similar reasons.
Leaving the EU allows us to control our immigration to meet our demand with higher paying wages and stopping the undercutting of the UK workforce with cheap overseas labour
BoZo just agreed we need "the undercutting of the UK workforce with cheap overseas labour" to stop people running out of food.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Not like the democrat-revolutionary, Che Guevara-like donors of the Brexit campaign, ofcourse, such as James Dyson and Sir Jim Ratcliffe ;.)
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Oh yes it is!
Oh no it isn't!
Why haven't you tried a major pay rise if there's such a serious shortage? Did you really expect a piddly 11% pay rise to bring people back into the sector?
I thought the market paid what it needed to pay. No serious issues in April so pay inflation. Then its gets competitive so repeatedly add double digit increments on top and its still competitive. Perhaps they should just stay in this pay war until pay is +100% or maybe +200% higher.
You keep saying "it will bring in new drivers". Except it hasn't. And no matter how many times you quote rhetoric it still doesn't make it true.
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Oh yes it is!
Oh no it isn't!
Why haven't you tried a major pay rise if there's such a serious shortage? Did you really expect a piddly 11% pay rise to bring people back into the sector?
Something had to give way in the end. It turned out to be artificial labour suppression. You simply misread where the market forces were putting most pressure.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Not like the democrat-revolutionary donors of the Brexit campaign, ofcourse, such as James Dyson and Sir Jim Ratcliffe ;.)
rich men on both sides thats the irony, somehow remainy billionaires are meant to be more virtuous
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
Élysée readout: “Boris Johnson expressed his intention to reestablish cooperation between France & the UK, in line with our values & our shared interests (climate, IndoPacific, CT). The President responded that he was waiting for his proposals"
Here's the Downing St readout, rather different in tone
I am almost tempted to speculate that Boris insisted in conducting the entire conversation in his Franglais, just for the LOLs.
“prenez un grip” and “donnez-moi un break” . Genius.
OTOH, he's not writing for the DT in Miles Kington mode. He's supposed to be a responsible first minister of state running the country.
But he is so much better at making us laugh. His Kermit joke in the United Nations was a classic.
Oh no, he didn't?! when I read a comment on PB about the Kermit joke (not, I really hope, the one about him and Miss P. that used to be in rag mags in my student years) I thought the poster was just being ironic - I did not believe that anyone remotely responsible would do such a thing at the UN (unless it was, of course, a specialist speecn on e.g. the arts and movies).
If the Government considers that relaxing immigration rules is part of the solution isn't that also an admission that tightening immigration rules was part of the problem? https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1441386473794588679
You just do not get it
Leaving the EU allows us to control our immigration to meet our demand with higher paying wages and stopping the undercutting of the UK workforce with cheap overseas labour
It was why the recent immigration act was passed to allow visa quotas
We've lost the reciprocality of the single market though. We will be relaxing our rules to let people in, but who will be relaxing their rules to let us in? And if the government relaxes the rules every time they get lobbied/blackmailed by big business then who exactly has taken back control here? This seems to be all about the needs of business, not the rights of citizens.
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Never give up! Never surrender!!!
Well would you believe it
You have finally described your 24/7 anti Brexit tweeting
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Oh yes it is!
Oh no it isn't!
Why haven't you tried a major pay rise if there's such a serious shortage? Did you really expect a piddly 11% pay rise to bring people back into the sector?
I thought the market paid what it needed to pay. No serious issues in April so pay inflation. Then its gets competitive so repeatedly add double digit increments on top and its still competitive. Perhaps they should just stay in this pay war until pay is +100% or maybe +200% higher.
You keep saying "it will bring in new drivers". Except it hasn't. And no matter how many times you quote rhetoric it still doesn't make it true.
If it hasn't you haven't increased pay by enough.
Absolutely continueuntil it is +100% or +200% or whatever it takes to get to equilibrium.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
If the Government considers that relaxing immigration rules is part of the solution isn't that also an admission that tightening immigration rules was part of the problem? https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1441386473794588679
You just do not get it
Leaving the EU allows us to control our immigration to meet our demand with higher paying wages and stopping the undercutting of the UK workforce with cheap overseas labour
It was why the recent immigration act was passed to allow visa quotas
At least it does now that they have woken up to "we have a need we cannot fill". Until 10 minutes ago it was "we are choosing to control migration by not letting people in even though we need them".
As others have pointed out, we have needs in other areas as well. We have a choice of rolling shortages, acute labour shortages in key industries, a fuel crisis all on top of winter UC cuts and sky high energy bills. Or allowing targeted migration.
The "ride it out" option may be best long term. A wholesale remap of the economy. But it will be painful, and the "I would rather eat grass" brigade have decided they don't want to eat grass for Christmas Dinner.
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Oh yes it is!
Oh no it isn't!
Why haven't you tried a major pay rise if there's such a serious shortage? Did you really expect a piddly 11% pay rise to bring people back into the sector?
I thought the market paid what it needed to pay. No serious issues in April so pay inflation. Then its gets competitive so repeatedly add double digit increments on top and its still competitive. Perhaps they should just stay in this pay war until pay is +100% or maybe +200% higher.
You keep saying "it will bring in new drivers". Except it hasn't. And no matter how many times you quote rhetoric it still doesn't make it true.
actually it will and it will also force productivity and innovation which will re address the cost issues.
The bigger issue is when all this was known for some considerable time why did the current batch of executives do nothing about it ?
It increases the supply of labour to the detriment of the indigenous supply.
Confirming it was caused by Brexit.
Not the answer to the question I asked, but OK
The ending of freedom of movement through Brexit has seen wage increases, especially for the lower paid by the ending of cheap labour and has allowed us to tailor our immigration to attract higher paid workers into our economy where we have need
It is the success story of Brexit and I find it hard to believe that deep down you cannot just accept this
It can be said that Junckers should have conceded to Cameron on freedom of movement and to be honest the referendum would not have happened and we would still be in the EU if a compromise had been reached
There was absolutely nothing to stop anyone being paid more before we left the EU, of course. It's just that we decided to gut the trade union movement and remove just about every piece of leverage workers had to negotiate themselves better pay and conditions. It would be nice to think at least a few people now accept that was a mistake. But I doubt it. Next time we see any strikes that are about getting more pay for the low paid, the strikers will be routinely condemned, just as they always are.
To be honest with the wage increases now happening post Brexit the low paid should be seeing a considerable increase as well as those higher up the scale
Impressive data out of Malaysia. 14.5M participants. RECoVAM study shows full vaccination reduces the risk of infection by 88% and symptomatic disease by 86%.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
Oh no, he didn't?! when I read a comment on PB about the Kermit joke (not, I really hope, the one about him and Miss P. that used to be in rag mags in my student years) I thought the poster was just being ironic - I did not believe that anyone remotely responsible would do such a thing at the UN (unless it was, of course, a specialist speecn on e.g. the arts and movies).
The Guinness Book of Records currently lists the anechoic chamber at Orfield Laboratories in Minneapolis as being the quietest place in the world, with a noise reading of minus 9.4 decibels. Beaten last night by the UN's reaction to Boris Johnson's Kermit joke. https://twitter.com/simonblackwell/status/1440933010342305792
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
In which case the fuel companies need to pay an even bigger salary. People will pay whatever it takes for fuel and the cost of fuel is almost all tax anyway so its really not inflationary that one.
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Oh yes it is!
Oh no it isn't!
Why haven't you tried a major pay rise if there's such a serious shortage? Did you really expect a piddly 11% pay rise to bring people back into the sector?
I thought the market paid what it needed to pay. No serious issues in April so pay inflation. Then its gets competitive so repeatedly add double digit increments on top and its still competitive. Perhaps they should just stay in this pay war until pay is +100% or maybe +200% higher.
You keep saying "it will bring in new drivers". Except it hasn't. And no matter how many times you quote rhetoric it still doesn't make it true.
actually it will and it will also force productivity and innovation which will re address the cost issues.
The bigger issue is when all this was known for some considerable time why did the current batch of executives do nothing about it ?
because the only fix was to pay for training new drivers and that eats into their profits.
Once again, go back and look at my plan to fix the issue, where work permits today (carrot) are attached to training new drivers (the stick).
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
In which case the fuel companies need to pay an even bigger salary. People will pay whatever it takes for fuel and the cost of fuel is almost all tax anyway so its really not inflationary that one.
And yet there are still unemployed people in the UK. Go figure.
Who generally live in urban areas and not next to a turkey farm.
True, but I believe people who can work for a living, should. Near me there are loads of jobs going, including my favourite pub not being open as it needs staff. No one who can work should not be doing so right now.
As always its a balancing act. Many of the people needing work have kids and the work (like your pub) are shifts. Iain Duncan Smith made similar comments back in the day up in Merthyr Tydfil - loads of jobs in Cardiff. Great! But how does that work if you're in the valleys and you have kids and theres no childcare or public transport to cover shifts.
And farms? Out in the sticks not where the unemployed are. How do we get people from the towns out into the sticks and back every day?
Yep - I totally accept this, and my very short post was a vast oversimplification. I'm lucky enough to have never been unemployed, and optimistically think I would do almost any job to keep some money coming in. I probably won't have to, unless the University decides to shut my department down (not on the cards currently) or something goes very wrong. Of course its not as easy as I implied, but I believe working for your money is better than state hand-outs, and wherever possible, thats what you should do.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
Rough breathing at the start, so it's hoi. And it needs to be written properly, with the diacritical marks: ὁἱ πολλοί
It increases the supply of labour to the detriment of the indigenous supply.
Confirming it was caused by Brexit.
Not the answer to the question I asked, but OK
The ending of freedom of movement through Brexit has seen wage increases, especially for the lower paid by the ending of cheap labour and has allowed us to tailor our immigration to attract higher paid workers into our economy where we have need
It is the success story of Brexit and I find it hard to believe that deep down you cannot just accept this
It can be said that Junckers should have conceded to Cameron on freedom of movement and to be honest the referendum would not have happened and we would still be in the EU if a compromise had been reached
There was absolutely nothing to stop anyone being paid more before we left the EU, of course. It's just that we decided to gut the trade union movement and remove just about every piece of leverage workers had to negotiate themselves better pay and conditions. It would be nice to think at least a few people now accept that was a mistake. But I doubt it. Next time we see any strikes that are about getting more pay for the low paid, the strikers will be routinely condemned, just as they always are.
To be honest with the wage increases now happening post Brexit the low paid should be seeing a considerable increase as well as those higher up the scale
Tell that to those working in the public sector and in nursing homes!
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
You can get any present you want from Amazon delivered next day delivery already. I've already got half my Christmas presents chosen and delivered and in the cupboard for this year. What a joke.
So, we are letting EU workers back into the country because we need them, while ensuring that UK citizens still have no freedom of movement benefits; and we are letting EU goods into the country unchecked, while UK exports are subject to third country customs checks before they can enter the single market. It's almost as if the government is entirely clueless.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
I suspect (and know) you also just lose some drivers, the extra hassle may not be worth the extra £1 now you earn enough.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
How can a problem (shortage of HGV drivers) that was absolutely, definitely not caused by Brexit, be eased by abandoning part of Brexit?
Take your time...
Because a "shortage of drivers" is not a problem.
Oh yes it is!
Oh no it isn't!
Why haven't you tried a major pay rise if there's such a serious shortage? Did you really expect a piddly 11% pay rise to bring people back into the sector?
I thought the market paid what it needed to pay. No serious issues in April so pay inflation. Then its gets competitive so repeatedly add double digit increments on top and its still competitive. Perhaps they should just stay in this pay war until pay is +100% or maybe +200% higher.
You keep saying "it will bring in new drivers". Except it hasn't. And no matter how many times you quote rhetoric it still doesn't make it true.
actually it will and it will also force productivity and innovation which will re address the cost issues.
The bigger issue is when all this was known for some considerable time why did the current batch of executives do nothing about it ?
because the only fix was to pay for training new drivers and that eats into their profits.
Once again, go back and look at my plan to fix the issue, where work permits today (carrot) are attached to training new drivers (the stick).
thats simply a way of saying companies decided to avoid cost now and take the risk that the system would hold
now that it hasnt the cost equation has changed totally and it will cost companies more money to find a new equilibrium
It increases the supply of labour to the detriment of the indigenous supply.
Confirming it was caused by Brexit.
Not the answer to the question I asked, but OK
The ending of freedom of movement through Brexit has seen wage increases, especially for the lower paid by the ending of cheap labour and has allowed us to tailor our immigration to attract higher paid workers into our economy where we have need
It is the success story of Brexit and I find it hard to believe that deep down you cannot just accept this
It can be said that Junckers should have conceded to Cameron on freedom of movement and to be honest the referendum would not have happened and we would still be in the EU if a compromise had been reached
There was absolutely nothing to stop anyone being paid more before we left the EU, of course. It's just that we decided to gut the trade union movement and remove just about every piece of leverage workers had to negotiate themselves better pay and conditions. It would be nice to think at least a few people now accept that was a mistake. But I doubt it. Next time we see any strikes that are about getting more pay for the low paid, the strikers will be routinely condemned, just as they always are.
To be honest with the wage increases now happening post Brexit the low paid should be seeing a considerable increase as well as those higher up the scale
What wage increases? Data, please.
Could be smoke and mirrors. The average went up because the low paid were laid off during Covid.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
Then maybe don't lose them. Maybe pay them more in the first place and when they hand in their notice, maybe stop and think "oh I'll need to pay even more than this".
If you keep having pathetically small pay rises under the circumstances then yes that will be a problem. Its a problem you need to fix though not have the state fix it for you.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
Rough breathing at the start, so it's hoi. And it needs to be written properly, with the diacritical marks: ὁἱ πολλοί
Well, obviously. I didn't want to be too much of a Remoaner elitist.
So, we are letting EU workers back into the country because we need them, while ensuring that UK citizens still have no freedom of movement benefits; and we are letting EU goods into the country unchecked, while UK exports are subject to third country customs checks before they can enter the single market. It's almost as if the government is entirely clueless.
As far as I understand it the visa quotas are available to workers worldwide
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
There's deffnitly two ls in polloi and a rough breathing on hoi...
So, we are letting EU workers back into the country because we need them, while ensuring that UK citizens still have no freedom of movement benefits; and we are letting EU goods into the country unchecked, while UK exports are subject to third country customs checks before they can enter the single market. It's almost as if the government is entirely clueless.
Course. If we really wanted to go back to our pre-Europe traditions. Now would be a great time for a transport strike. How Leavers would cheer, as the pay of the workers soared. After a few week''s disruption.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
Rough breathing at the start, so it's hoi. And it needs to be written properly, with the diacritical marks: ὁἱ πολλοί
Well, obviously. I didn't want to be too much of a Remoaner elitist.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
Rough breathing at the start, so it's hoi. And it needs to be written properly, with the diacritical marks: ὁἱ πολλοί
Tut, tut, tut. The nominative of the definite article does not have an accent.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
There's deffnitly two ls in polloi and a rough breathing on hoi...
Tory lead with YouGov up to seven points on eve of Labour conference
CON 39 (n/c) LAB 32 (-3) LD 10 (+3) GREEN 9 (+2) REF UK 3 (n/c)
Number of Con-Lab switchers halved since Labour lead a fortnight ago, fewer 2019 Tories don't know
One in five Lab voters backing other parties
In this crisis labour's polling must be of great concern to their supporters
The question is why
And on the fuel shortages, as has been commented on here, a few filling stations closed will not impact on the public
It would have to be widespread across the country and causing huge queues
The people at war with Sir Keir's Labour, the Corbynites, have gone Green. Is it too simplistic to assume they just come back? They hate him more than they do Tories
Also interesting that policy advisers for government is an eligible occupation, whilst the people who deliver are our food is not. Perhaps given the governments performance we actually do need to import some talent there.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
There's deffnitly two ls in polloi and a rough breathing on hoi...
Sorry, I was so enraged by the use of "the" there that I allowed my own standards to slip. Unforgiveable.
Far be it from me to jump on any bandwagon, but I have to say that We have just done a Tesco shop and I am pleased to say that the shelves were looking quite well stocked. I didn't go for diesel though...luckily, there was an enormouse queue!! (West Wales)
Far be it from me to jump on any bandwagon, but I have to say that We have just done a Tesco shop and I am pleased to say that the shelves were looking quite well stocked. I didn't go for diesel though...luckily, there was an enormouse queue!! (West Wales)
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
Then maybe don't lose them. Maybe pay them more in the first place and when they hand in their notice, maybe stop and think "oh I'll need to pay even more than this".
If you keep having pathetically small pay rises under the circumstances then yes that will be a problem. Its a problem you need to fix though not have the state fix it for you.
38% is "pathetically small"?
How much should a pay rise be to (a) keep existing drivers and (b) cover any and all possible pay rises by competitors? I've managed a lot of salary budgets and recruited talent where you have to pay to keep them. Never managed a speculative +80% or +180% just in case the rival down the road increases their offer.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
Then maybe don't lose them. Maybe pay them more in the first place and when they hand in their notice, maybe stop and think "oh I'll need to pay even more than this".
If you keep having pathetically small pay rises under the circumstances then yes that will be a problem. Its a problem you need to fix though not have the state fix it for you.
38% is "pathetically small"?
How much should a pay rise be to (a) keep existing drivers and (b) cover any and all possible pay rises by competitors? I've managed a lot of salary budgets and recruited talent where you have to pay to keep them. Never managed a speculative +80% or +180% just in case the rival down the road increases their offer.
I can remember when Tories (in general) such as PT would have denounced such pay rises as inflationary, holding the country to ransom, etc. etc.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
Then maybe don't lose them. Maybe pay them more in the first place and when they hand in their notice, maybe stop and think "oh I'll need to pay even more than this".
If you keep having pathetically small pay rises under the circumstances then yes that will be a problem. Its a problem you need to fix though not have the state fix it for you.
38% is "pathetically small"?
How much should a pay rise be to (a) keep existing drivers and (b) cover any and all possible pay rises by competitors? I've managed a lot of salary budgets and recruited talent where you have to pay to keep them. Never managed a speculative +80% or +180% just in case the rival down the road increases their offer.
Have a look at the Premier League wage inflation and copy that. Sure it won't cause any problems with knock on cost of living increases for the other 99% who are not lorry drivers.
Tory lead with YouGov up to seven points on eve of Labour conference
CON 39 (n/c) LAB 32 (-3) LD 10 (+3) GREEN 9 (+2) REF UK 3 (n/c)
Number of Con-Lab switchers halved since Labour lead a fortnight ago, fewer 2019 Tories don't know
One in five Lab voters backing other parties
In this crisis labour's polling must be of great concern to their supporters
The question is why
And on the fuel shortages, as has been commented on here, a few filling stations closed will not impact on the public
It would have to be widespread across the country and causing huge queues
The people at war with Sir Keir's Labour, the Corbynites, have gone Green. Is it too simplistic to assume they just come back? They hate him more than they do Tories
What interests me is that a few may be moving to the LD's, too. As discussed earlier, I think some may be perceiving him as both anti-EU and vaguely illiberal, especially with what will look to a number of people like machine politics on this new voting system issue.
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
Remainers dont like the idea of the oi polloi getting more money
Please, it's either oi poloi or the poloi, not the oi poloi. Standards at PB are really slipping.
Rough breathing at the start, so it's hoi. And it needs to be written properly, with the diacritical marks: ὁἱ πολλοί
Also interesting that policy advisers for government is an eligible occupation, whilst the people who deliver are our food is not. Perhaps given the governments performance we actually do need to import some talent there.
Would be good to have a flood of cheap Romanian policy advisers, living eight to a caravan in a dirty field round the back of Whitehall. Whatever those guys are getting paid right now, it's too much.
Far be it from me to jump on any bandwagon, but I have to say that We have just done a Tesco shop and I am pleased to say that the shelves were looking quite well stocked. I didn't go for diesel though...luckily, there was an enormouse queue!! (West Wales)
So the problem which apparently according to Leavers wasn’t made worse by Brexit will be alleviated by removing some of the restrictions placed on EU drivers by Brexit .
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
Remainers need to stop embarrassing themselves. Leavers are saying its a good thing not a problem.
I’m happy to see wages going up for drivers , equally the pragmatic solution until more U.K. drivers can be hired is to temporarily relax the visa rules . This seems like common sense whereas sticking to your stance re this issue seems to be hoping the problem will magically go away overnight . How can supply shortages and problems with supply chains be a good thing .
So-called "problems" force people to pay the real market rate. Drivers get to go to whichever "predatory pay rise" (TM Rochdale) gets offered to them, the firms get to move whichever goods companies are prepared to pay enough to get moved - and the freeloaders at the bottom of the pyramid fall out.
The problem with your argument is that it's not the freeloaders who are falling out.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
The biggie was when the pay fiesta hit the tanker drivers. I assume that Hoyer et al have responded with their own pay rises so they will recruit drivers back which will fill the gaps. Until the next round of poaching when we go back to shortages again and again.
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
Then maybe don't lose them. Maybe pay them more in the first place and when they hand in their notice, maybe stop and think "oh I'll need to pay even more than this".
If you keep having pathetically small pay rises under the circumstances then yes that will be a problem. Its a problem you need to fix though not have the state fix it for you.
38% is "pathetically small"?
How much should a pay rise be to (a) keep existing drivers and (b) cover any and all possible pay rises by competitors? I've managed a lot of salary budgets and recruited talent where you have to pay to keep them. Never managed a speculative +80% or +180% just in case the rival down the road increases their offer.
If you haven't filled your vacancies then yes it is.
The benchmark I'm using is I know truckers in the States can be on over $100k per annum. What did your piddly 38% (34% if we exclude the 2.5% inflation only rise) pay rise in the circumstances increase pay upto out of curiosity?
Comments
Training îs a dirty word in many companies in the UK. Like crevice.
All as part of a wider package of measures
First reported by the FT
https://www.ft.com/content/8335166f-9019-471b-9cbf-d7554c3b40b2
The central tenet of Brexit abandoned at the first whiff of gunsmoke.
The BoZo fanbois must be so proud...
Leavers need to stop embarrassing themselves . They seem to be running down a rabbit hole and flailing as to how they can continue to polish the Brexit turd!
OK, 6 months minus a day, but ...
Now 1 permit for every 4 UK drivers you employ
March 2022 1 permit per 5 UK drivers - to qualify that 5th driver most be newly trained
October 2022 1 permit per 6 UK drivers - to qualify 2 drivers most be newly trained
June 2023 1 permit per 8 drivers - to qualify 3 drivers must be newly trained
January 2024 all work permits removed.
HK isn't remotely comparable, since it was certain they were going to get it back. Taiwan has an unfortunate and unpredictable thing called democracy, and not the 'misunderstood' version that apparently exists on the mainland.
The odds of something kicking off in the next decade are slightly higher than zero.
Leaving the EU allows us to control our immigration to meet our demand with higher paying wages and stopping the undercutting of the UK workforce with cheap overseas labour
It was why the recent immigration act was passed to allow visa quotas
But I lay odds that the plan announced today will solve none of the problems when (as shown above) you can easily solve the lot.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-going-rates-for-eligible-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-going-rates-for-eligible-occupation-codes
Maybe one day you will see it, but I will not hold my breath
Huzzah!
You keep saying "it will bring in new drivers". Except it hasn't. And no matter how many times you quote rhetoric it still doesn't make it true.
You have finally described your 24/7 anti Brexit tweeting
Well done
Absolutely continueuntil it is +100% or +200% or whatever it takes to get to equilibrium.
Its the greater hassle fuel and coolchain hauliers who have immediate problems because the extra money they pay is now not worth the extra hassle.
As others have pointed out, we have needs in other areas as well. We have a choice of rolling shortages, acute labour shortages in key industries, a fuel crisis all on top of winter UC cuts and sky high energy bills. Or allowing targeted migration.
The "ride it out" option may be best long term. A wholesale remap of the economy. But it will be painful, and the "I would rather eat grass" brigade have decided they don't want to eat grass for Christmas Dinner.
The bigger issue is when all this was known for some considerable time why did the current batch of executives do nothing about it ?
Publicans and managers of licensed premises Landlady (public house)
Licensee
Manager (wine bar)
Publican £20,700(£10.21 per hour)
So in theory I could get a visa for someone to work in a pub at £10.22 an hour.
EDIT: and carpet fitters for £10.76 an hour.....
Impressive data out of Malaysia. 14.5M participants. RECoVAM study shows full vaccination reduces the risk of infection by 88% and symptomatic disease by 86%.
AstraZeneca
•Against ICU Admission: 96%
•Against Death: 96%
Pfizer
•Against ICU Admission: 92%
•Against Death: 93%
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1441398550349303809?s=20
There is an age-mix effect in there too, older>Pfizer, younger>AZ
https://twitter.com/simonblackwell/status/1440933010342305792
Once again, go back and look at my plan to fix the issue, where work permits today (carrot) are attached to training new drivers (the stick).
Of course its not as easy as I implied, but I believe working for your money is better than state hand-outs, and wherever possible, thats what you should do.
https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/1441399896683290624
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hoi polloi
Thing is, if you are an ADR driver the country really needs you driving fuel and toxic chemicals, not sofas. "Just pay more" is fine and they will and are. But as you lose and then poach back drivers you have gaps and that means fuel shortages.
You can get any present you want from Amazon delivered next day delivery already. I've already got half my Christmas presents chosen and delivered and in the cupboard for this year. What a joke.
poloi maps more on to the Plebians - who were more like the top of the working class and above.
now that it hasnt the cost equation has changed totally and it will cost companies more money to find a new equilibrium
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/23/the-puzzle-of-rising-uk-wages-reveals-an-unprecedented-and-tragic-truth
If you keep having pathetically small pay rises under the circumstances then yes that will be a problem. Its a problem you need to fix though not have the state fix it for you.
But I have had to cross the road in India and the HGV drivers take no prisoners...
1161 Managers and directors in transport and distribution Fleet manager
Transport manager £30,900(£15.24 per hour)
"I have a job for a Transport Manger. Because it is hands on, it needs an HGV license, current for the UK."
Why does it seem to be the Home Counties. See also supermarkets March 2020.
How Leavers would cheer, as the pay of the workers soared.
After a few week''s disruption.
https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1441404316636508162
How much should a pay rise be to (a) keep existing drivers and (b) cover any and all possible pay rises by competitors? I've managed a lot of salary budgets and recruited talent where you have to pay to keep them. Never managed a speculative +80% or +180% just in case the rival down the road increases their offer.
Need someone with balls to take over. Preferably Truss.
The benchmark I'm using is I know truckers in the States can be on over $100k per annum. What did your piddly 38% (34% if we exclude the 2.5% inflation only rise) pay rise in the circumstances increase pay upto out of curiosity?