Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
Cue frantic ideological whiplash from the PB Tories.
Are there any left? Maybe HYUFD.
I'm more than content to stick with my principles and say the Government are doing the wrong thing, if they do the wrong thing. I agree with the Government because they're doing the right thing, not because I'm loyal.
If the Government change and do the wrong thing, then its still the wrong thing, just like the jobs tax.
I see @Casino_Royale has trouble with the word “econometricians”.
Perhaps he discovered an undercover “woke” cell at HM Treasury or something.
1½ hours to think about it and (still) no answers, just more ad hominem.
I rest my case, ladies and gentlemen.
It must be difficult watching a two decade argument get smashed up in just a few months. The issue here is that the evidence has changed but people are dogmatically sticking to their views.
Tbh, the evidence from Switzerland has always been pretty clear. Have large barriers at the bottom of the market and very few at that top. Everyone wins that way.
Jake Brown, a 27-year-old former non-league footballer, founded Avro Energy in 2014 while studying law at Birmingham University
The collapse of Avro’s consumer division on Wednesday was the biggest failure yet seen of a household supplier
Jake's father Andrew joined the business in 2017. The pair do not appear to have invested any of their own money in the company, which has been financed by the advance fees paid by customers. Each owns half the shares in Avro Group, the holding company for a string of businesses
Sounds rather ponzi-scheme light....we have no money, no investment, we rely on new money coming in. No wonder they weren't hedging.
The big question is: what the hell was the regulator (OFGEM) doing? Did they not even do two minutes due diligence before granting Avro's Electricity Supply Licence?
Another useless regulator. Probably staffed by some of the same chumps who were at the FSA.
Update on petrol and empty shelves in suburban east London- in my local Sainsbury's this morning, the usual spotty gaps as per recently on the shelves, generally not as full as say 6 months ago but most things available. The most obvious gap was on the pasta aisle. I was able to get everything I wanted but I did take the last bottle of Bishop's Finger (other beers remain available).
Outside, quite a few cars queueing for fuel, presumably on the basis that if the government says there is no need to panic buy, then one should buy.
That Shapps was doing the morning rounds suggests they are not yet for turning. When we get Sharma or Dowden defending the policy that is the indicator for the inevitable u-turn.
(At which point those cheering the government for holding firm today, will praise them for being pragmatic and flexible. It is a bit like umpires call in the cricket, whatever their decision, they will see the govt as correct.)
Ultimately if they are perceived to address the problem then the public will move on
They should by any definition be in the polling doldrums but the constant mystery is just why labour are not seen as the alternative government, or has Corbyn trashed the brand so comprehensively
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
It’s a civic duty really isn’t. Keep calm, carry on as normal, if anyone breaks habit and takes more the usual that’s what will cause the problem - depriving it from someone else.
Thankfully, people can't hoard petrol/diesel like they can do with toilet rolls (at least, most people can't/won't).
Darwin Award incoming.
Perhaps even a D notice should be slapped on media when there are teething issues with with this, to save a bigger problem. Certainly the riots of 2012 were exacerbated by the Tv coverage, which they won’t be allowed to do next time, editorial restraint could help in situations like this.
More than half of U.K. adults say they have faced more difficulties than usual shopping for food over the past two weeks, according to an official survey https://trib.al/uXYRWyB
Apparently it’s a fiction, apart from that one time it happened to him.
Does depend on what you mean by difficulties though. For instance, in my shop this week I couldn't buy my normal size tin of kidney beans. So I bought two of the smaller ones instead.
Q Have you been unable to buy any of your normal items? A Yes
Q Did it affect your dinner? A No.
I am not suggesting that there are no problems - there clearly are, just that it is being spun by some into something much bigger than the reality, and above story is an example of how that can happen.
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
It’s a civic duty really isn’t. Keep calm, carry on as normal, if anyone breaks habit and takes more the usual that’s what will cause the problem - depriving it from someone else.
The whole of game theory is about prisoner's dilemma, and the whole point of prisoner's dilemma is: if you are certain the other party is going to defect, you defect.
So do I go mano a mano with a whole academic discipline, or do i fill my tank?
Should thoroughly test the theory that Brits wont do this back breaking hard labour at any price.
Followed swiftly by how willing we are to pay 20 quid for a head of broccoli...
More likely, the broccoli just isn’t harvested and doesn’t make it to the shops. Nobody can buy that broccoli.
Result:
Less broccoli choice More expensive broccoli Fewer broccoli jobs More broccoli imports Fewer broccoli exports
Now repeat across the entire economy.
You forget: happier (if possibly less healthy) kids
(although my two actually eat broccoli very happily - pretty much at the top of their veg preference list, maybe after sweetcorn - it's supposed to be something they hate, isn't it?)
I once introduced a teenager to purple sprouting broccoli, which I prefer to calabrese and, indeed, regard as a seasonal delicacy. She was unimpressed, expecting "little trees".
As a kid, we only ever had purple sprouting broccoli (from my dad's garden) and I prefer it, too. I was in my teens before I had calabrese, at a friend's house. Never had any luck growing either, myself - tried a couple of times and it bolts before there's a decent head. Everything else we've tried we've managed to grow well enough, so just shrugged and given up. Purple sprouting is rarely available to buy here and expensive, I do miss it.
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
It’s a civic duty really isn’t. Keep calm, carry on as normal, if anyone breaks habit and takes more the usual that’s what will cause the problem - depriving it from someone else.
Thankfully, people can't hoard petrol/diesel like they can do with toilet rolls (at least, most people can't/won't).
Darwin Award incoming.
Perhaps even a D notice should be slapped on media when there are teething issues with with this, to save a bigger problem. Certainly the riots of 2012 were exacerbated by the Tv coverage, which they won’t be allowed to do next time, editorial restraint could help in situations like this.
The government made a mistake in advising people to store petrol in jerrycans at home to prepare for a possible strike by fuel tanker drivers, a transport minister has said.
Mike Penning said Cabinet Minister Francis Maude had misunderstood the size of a jerrycan, which is 20 litres.
Tesco offering drivers a £1,000 sign on to come to work for them
Small print applies ie half after 3 months half after 6 months
My step son says his mate drives for Tesco, £21.40 an hour, the problem he says is not the drivers, they can’t get the cheap Labour on minimum wage to work night shifts loading the lorries.
"What self respecting person would work nights for minimum wage"
Peerhaps its because places like Aldi and LIDL pay the Living Wage, which is about 7-8% higher than minimum wage I think at present.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
The thing to do is get in before the panic buyers….
I am still in the EU (where there is abundant fuel), heading for Belgium in the hope of turning my dog into a Belgian pet. I guess it makes sense to fill up before I set off for home tomorrow?
Do I need to fill the car with emergency relief supplies?
Should thoroughly test the theory that Brits wont do this back breaking hard labour at any price.
Followed swiftly by how willing we are to pay 20 quid for a head of broccoli...
More likely, the broccoli just isn’t harvested and doesn’t make it to the shops. Nobody can buy that broccoli.
Result:
Less broccoli choice More expensive broccoli Fewer broccoli jobs More broccoli imports Fewer broccoli exports
Now repeat across the entire economy.
You forget: happier (if possibly less healthy) kids
(although my two actually eat broccoli very happily - pretty much at the top of their veg preference list, maybe after sweetcorn - it's supposed to be something they hate, isn't it?)
I once introduced a teenager to purple sprouting broccoli, which I prefer to calabrese and, indeed, regard as a seasonal delicacy. She was unimpressed, expecting "little trees".
As a kid, we only ever had purple sprouting broccoli (from my dad's garden) and I prefer it, too. I was in my teens before I had calabrese, at a friend's house. Never had any luck growing either, myself - tried a couple of times and it bolts before there's a decent head. Everything else we've tried we've managed to grow well enough, so just shrugged and given up. Purple sprouting is rarely available to buy here and expensive, I do miss it.
It's really easy to grow, delicious, first thing available in spring, and only bolts when you are fed up with it and have stopped harvesting. If you garden at all you should grow it
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
It’s a civic duty really isn’t. Keep calm, carry on as normal, if anyone breaks habit and takes more the usual that’s what will cause the problem - depriving it from someone else.
Thankfully, people can't hoard petrol/diesel like they can do with toilet rolls (at least, most people can't/won't).
Darwin Award incoming.
Perhaps even a D notice should be slapped on media when there are teething issues with with this, to save a bigger problem. Certainly the riots of 2012 were exacerbated by the Tv coverage, which they won’t be allowed to do next time, editorial restraint could help in situations like this.
Tesco offering drivers a £1,000 sign on to come to work for them
Small print applies ie half after 3 months half after 6 months
My step son says his mate drives for Tesco, £21.40 an hour, the problem he says is not the drivers, they can’t get the cheap Labour on minimum wage to work night shifts loading the lorries.
"What self respecting person would work nights for minimum wage"
Peerhaps its because places like Aldi and LIDL pay the Living Wage, which is about 7-8% higher than minimum wage I think at present.
20 years ago I worked warehouse job for a well known upmarket supermarket, doing nights I got ~£10 / hr even then. That was before you could import cheap labour from Eastern Europe mind you.
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
It’s a civic duty really isn’t. Keep calm, carry on as normal, if anyone breaks habit and takes more the usual that’s what will cause the problem - depriving it from someone else.
I admit I did fill up this morning, which I don't normally do as I have only been using £20-£30 of petrol a month. But I am now going into the office 3-4 days a week and I do want to get to Luton Airport for my Andalucia jaunt, so I thought it prudent to fill up now. No queues, no shortages though at a local filling station that is normally one of the cheapest around.
The thing to do is get in before the panic buyers….
I am still in the EU (where there is abundant fuel), heading for Belgium in the hope of turning my dog into a Belgian pet. I guess it makes sense to fill up before I set off for home tomorrow?
Do I need to fill the car with emergency relief supplies?
I see @Casino_Royale has trouble with the word “econometricians”.
Perhaps he discovered an undercover “woke” cell at HM Treasury or something.
Why pray tell? Econometrics was a course at my Uni in the mid 80's. Have several friends who graduated as econometricians. They're in their mid 50's now.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
Its not as if all unions are Labour Party affiliates nowadays.
In fact it's almost like the plan is a desperate attempt to stop the Trade Unions separating away from the Labour party (which is a problem as the Labour Party needs their fundraising).
Brexit is working, its the only gamebin town. Driver shortages, container shortages etc are everywhere.
Driver shortages and container shortages aren't the same as food and petrol shortages, however. I haven't seen any reports of these in northern continental Europe up to now, which is what the Daily Mail constituency are beginning to notice also.
Disruptions in supply may well vary but a shortage of drivers makes such disruptions inevitable and that seems pretty universal in Europe at the moment.
There was a professional driver on R5 when I was driving home a couple of days ago who described how drivers had been treated as third class citizens, made to wait hours for both loads to be put on or taken off with no provision for them in terms of places to go and a pretty basic wage for a lonely, boring job. He admitted that he had just had a wage increase and that the supermarkets were now much keener to get them in and out. I am sure the likes of Tesco will want all its drivers on the road again as fast as possible at the moment.
There are certainly multiple well-known problems with the industry that have been widely reported, but until or unless people see plain evidence that the problems are as bad in neighbouring countries - which they haven't, and neither have I, frankly - Brexit will feature heavily.
I agree and made a similar point yesterday.
In America people are facing the same issues but they just pay whatever escalated prices are needed and get on with it. Inflation is running higher there, but the invisible hand is doing its job.
In the UK rather than 'Keep Calm And Carry On' we have 'whinge incessantly about Brexit'.
If you want to moan and moan then that's fine, you have free speech. But it won't get much done, not like gritting your teeth and actually paying your drivers or for timber or whatever the price the market demands.
I suggest that the issue is not necessarily Brexit itself, bit the apparent assumption in Government and Leavers generally, that 'we'll just Leave and all will be well'.
Very little thought was given to anything other than the obvious, and in many cases that was bodged.
All is well.
Its not the Government's job to fix companies supply chains, that's their own job. If something needs to change, they need to change it, and the market will ensure they do.
Thought boss of Tesco had said they had done everything in their power and shortages were still inevitable.
Time to grant visas for lorry drivers methinks. The Government won't survive long if most petrol stations are shut.
The boss of Tesco has a vested interest in not paying more.
He should stop moaning and pay what is required. But leftwingers would rather blame Brexit than see people get a pay rise.
The problem is that a pay rise doesn't stop the shortage, it just redistributes it. Same goes for social care, hospitality, health service, agriculture. The same people cannot be doing all these things.
It is time to look at how consumerist society works, and consider what is unnecessary in terms of employment.
If we could get human resources departments redeployed as HGV drivers the world would indeed be a happier place.
I see @Casino_Royale has trouble with the word “econometricians”.
Perhaps he discovered an undercover “woke” cell at HM Treasury or something.
Why pray tell? Econometrics was a course at my Uni in the mid 80's. Have several friends who graduated as econometricians. They're in their mid 50's now.
I believe he either doesn’t know what one is, or believes it is all hoodoo.
Tesco offering drivers a £1,000 sign on to come to work for them
Small print applies ie half after 3 months half after 6 months
My step son says his mate drives for Tesco, £21.40 an hour, the problem he says is not the drivers, they can’t get the cheap Labour on minimum wage to work night shifts loading the lorries.
"What self respecting person would work nights for minimum wage"
Peerhaps its because places like Aldi and LIDL pay the Living Wage, which is about 7-8% higher than minimum wage I think at present.
20 years ago I worked warehouse job for a well known upmarket supermarket, doing nights I got ~£10 / hr even then.
Indeed, and 20 years later the same people are on the same or lower rates. But it's got nothing to do with the unlimited low wage labour pool. Definitely not. Warehouses just wouldn't be a thing without low wage workers, we'd store everything out in the open.
Brexit is working, its the only gamebin town. Driver shortages, container shortages etc are everywhere.
Driver shortages and container shortages aren't the same as food and petrol shortages, however. I haven't seen any reports of these in northern continental Europe up to now, which is what the Daily Mail constituency are beginning to notice also.
Disruptions in supply may well vary but a shortage of drivers makes such disruptions inevitable and that seems pretty universal in Europe at the moment.
There was a professional driver on R5 when I was driving home a couple of days ago who described how drivers had been treated as third class citizens, made to wait hours for both loads to be put on or taken off with no provision for them in terms of places to go and a pretty basic wage for a lonely, boring job. He admitted that he had just had a wage increase and that the supermarkets were now much keener to get them in and out. I am sure the likes of Tesco will want all its drivers on the road again as fast as possible at the moment.
There are certainly multiple well-known problems with the industry that have been widely reported, but until or unless people see plain evidence that the problems are as bad in neighbouring countries - which they haven't, and neither have I, frankly - Brexit will feature heavily.
I agree and made a similar point yesterday.
In America people are facing the same issues but they just pay whatever escalated prices are needed and get on with it. Inflation is running higher there, but the invisible hand is doing its job.
In the UK rather than 'Keep Calm And Carry On' we have 'whinge incessantly about Brexit'.
If you want to moan and moan then that's fine, you have free speech. But it won't get much done, not like gritting your teeth and actually paying your drivers or for timber or whatever the price the market demands.
I suggest that the issue is not necessarily Brexit itself, bit the apparent assumption in Government and Leavers generally, that 'we'll just Leave and all will be well'.
Very little thought was given to anything other than the obvious, and in many cases that was bodged.
All is well.
Its not the Government's job to fix companies supply chains, that's their own job. If something needs to change, they need to change it, and the market will ensure they do.
Thought boss of Tesco had said they had done everything in their power and shortages were still inevitable.
Time to grant visas for lorry drivers methinks. The Government won't survive long if most petrol stations are shut.
The boss of Tesco has a vested interest in not paying more.
He should stop moaning and pay what is required. But leftwingers would rather blame Brexit than see people get a pay rise.
The problem is that a pay rise doesn't stop the shortage, it just redistributes it. Same goes for social care, hospitality, health service, agriculture. The same people cannot be doing all these things.
It is time to look at how consumerist society works, and consider what is unnecessary in terms of employment.
If we could get human resources departments redeployed as HGV drivers the world would indeed be a happier place.
If HR was forced to work as HGV drivers they would discover how bad life on the road actually is and might work on improving things.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
Its not as if all unions are Labour Party affiliates nowadays.
In fact it's almost like the plan is a desperate attempt to stop the Trade Unions separating away from the Labour party (which is a problem as the Labour Party needs their fundraising).
The Tory Party system is a sensible compromise. MPs act as gatekeepers narrowing the choice down to 2, then then members decide.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Brexit is working, its the only gamebin town. Driver shortages, container shortages etc are everywhere.
Driver shortages and container shortages aren't the same as food and petrol shortages, however. I haven't seen any reports of these in northern continental Europe up to now, which is what the Daily Mail constituency are beginning to notice also.
Disruptions in supply may well vary but a shortage of drivers makes such disruptions inevitable and that seems pretty universal in Europe at the moment.
There was a professional driver on R5 when I was driving home a couple of days ago who described how drivers had been treated as third class citizens, made to wait hours for both loads to be put on or taken off with no provision for them in terms of places to go and a pretty basic wage for a lonely, boring job. He admitted that he had just had a wage increase and that the supermarkets were now much keener to get them in and out. I am sure the likes of Tesco will want all its drivers on the road again as fast as possible at the moment.
There are certainly multiple well-known problems with the industry that have been widely reported, but until or unless people see plain evidence that the problems are as bad in neighbouring countries - which they haven't, and neither have I, frankly - Brexit will feature heavily.
I agree and made a similar point yesterday.
In America people are facing the same issues but they just pay whatever escalated prices are needed and get on with it. Inflation is running higher there, but the invisible hand is doing its job.
In the UK rather than 'Keep Calm And Carry On' we have 'whinge incessantly about Brexit'.
If you want to moan and moan then that's fine, you have free speech. But it won't get much done, not like gritting your teeth and actually paying your drivers or for timber or whatever the price the market demands.
I suggest that the issue is not necessarily Brexit itself, bit the apparent assumption in Government and Leavers generally, that 'we'll just Leave and all will be well'.
Very little thought was given to anything other than the obvious, and in many cases that was bodged.
All is well.
Its not the Government's job to fix companies supply chains, that's their own job. If something needs to change, they need to change it, and the market will ensure they do.
Thought boss of Tesco had said they had done everything in their power and shortages were still inevitable.
Time to grant visas for lorry drivers methinks. The Government won't survive long if most petrol stations are shut.
The boss of Tesco has a vested interest in not paying more.
He should stop moaning and pay what is required. But leftwingers would rather blame Brexit than see people get a pay rise.
The problem is that a pay rise doesn't stop the shortage, it just redistributes it. Same goes for social care, hospitality, health service, agriculture. The same people cannot be doing all these things.
It is time to look at how consumerist society works, and consider what is unnecessary in terms of employment.
If we could get human resources departments redeployed as HGV drivers the world would indeed be a happier place.
Much more dangerous though. I'd not trust most HR departments I've encountered to be in charge of a few tonnes of fast-moving metal. They don't normally display good reaction times!
Fantastic. Hard work should get a good pay rate, don't you agree?
Yes. But it's scarcity that pays, not hard work.
Yes that's how market economics works.
If we have scarce few people willing to work hard picking vegetables then that will be a valuable job that pays well.
Some people are petrified of seeing other people get a good day's wage though.
You do realise that broccoli can be bought from outside the UK, I suppose? Try thinking a bit harder.
Yes I do know that. I have no issue with that, do you?
If farmers can compete with the global economy, paying farm workers a decent salary, then that is fantastic. If they can't, then the land can be repurposed to something more productive instead.
AA President Edmund King says there is no shortage of fuel and thousands of petrol stations are operating normally with just a few suffering temporary supply chain problems
It’s a civic duty really isn’t. Keep calm, carry on as normal, if anyone breaks habit and takes more the usual that’s what will cause the problem - depriving it from someone else.
Thankfully, people can't hoard petrol/diesel like they can do with toilet rolls (at least, most people can't/won't).
Darwin Award incoming.
Perhaps even a D notice should be slapped on media when there are teething issues with with this, to save a bigger problem. Certainly the riots of 2012 were exacerbated by the Tv coverage, which they won’t be allowed to do next time, editorial restraint could help in situations like this.
This is a joke, right? Tell me it's a joke.
No. I was serious.
The riots spread around the country 2012 because of the overkill TV coverage. The lesson learned was when cars start burning in Paris the media are no longer allowed to show it. And the government here passed this message to the TV companies. We won’t get wall to wall on the spot in the air coverage of rioting ever again on UK TV.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
The evidence that members choose good leaders is pretty damning, both here and abroad. Why should a process that does not achieve its goals be continued?
I wouldnt be giving the unions a say, but nor do I support one member one vote for election of party leaders. They should be chosen by those who work with them and know them closely, not just the image they want to portray during a campaign.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
I see @Casino_Royale has trouble with the word “econometricians”.
Perhaps he discovered an undercover “woke” cell at HM Treasury or something.
Why pray tell? Econometrics was a course at my Uni in the mid 80's. Have several friends who graduated as econometricians. They're in their mid 50's now.
But do you find that
All the people we used to know They're an illusion to me now Some are mathematicians Some are carpenter's wives Don't know how it all got started I don't what they do with their lives But me, I'm still on the road Heading for another joint...?
Fantastic. Hard work should get a good pay rate, don't you agree?
Yes. But it's scarcity that pays, not hard work.
Yes that's how market economics works.
If we have scarce few people willing to work hard picking vegetables then that will be a valuable job that pays well.
Some people are petrified of seeing other people get a good day's wage though.
You do realise that broccoli can be bought from outside the UK, I suppose? Try thinking a bit harder.
Yes I do know that. I have no issue with that, do you?
If farmers can compete with the global economy, paying farm workers a decent salary, then that is fantastic. If they can't, then the land can be repurposed to something more productive instead.
So the farmer goes bust, the temporarily well-paid job which the worker got temporarily disappears, and our balance of payments worsens. This must be the tangible Brexit benefit everyone has been searching for.
The government seems to be escaping criticism for halting HGV driver tests during lockdown amidst all the other forms of criticism. Does anyone know what other countries did?
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
What's wrong with the existing visa system?
You can get a visa so long as the pay is the higher of the typical pay in the sector or £30,000.
Long queues at this BP garage in Twyford. Staff having to manage the influx of cars… closing every so often when it gets too busy. Drivers coming here after another #petrol station nearby ran dry. Staff tell me they DO have enough supply until the weekend - hopefully. https://twitter.com/LomasChar/status/1441370915527282691/video/1
Fantastic. Hard work should get a good pay rate, don't you agree?
Yes. But it's scarcity that pays, not hard work.
Yes that's how market economics works.
If we have scarce few people willing to work hard picking vegetables then that will be a valuable job that pays well.
Some people are petrified of seeing other people get a good day's wage though.
You do realise that broccoli can be bought from outside the UK, I suppose? Try thinking a bit harder.
Yes I do know that. I have no issue with that, do you?
If farmers can compete with the global economy, paying farm workers a decent salary, then that is fantastic. If they can't, then the land can be repurposed to something more productive instead.
So the farmer goes bust, the temporarily well-paid job which the worker got temporarily disappears, and our balance of payments worsens. This must be the tangible Brexit benefit everyone has been searching for.
Yes, free trade.
If the farmer is uncompetitive they should go bust and the land can be more useful even as wild natural land, or go to a farmer that's more competitive, or some other tangible use.
Should thoroughly test the theory that Brits wont do this back breaking hard labour at any price.
Followed swiftly by how willing we are to pay 20 quid for a head of broccoli...
More likely, the broccoli just isn’t harvested and doesn’t make it to the shops. Nobody can buy that broccoli.
Result:
Less broccoli choice More expensive broccoli Fewer broccoli jobs More broccoli imports Fewer broccoli exports
Now repeat across the entire economy.
You forget: happier (if possibly less healthy) kids
(although my two actually eat broccoli very happily - pretty much at the top of their veg preference list, maybe after sweetcorn - it's supposed to be something they hate, isn't it?)
I once introduced a teenager to purple sprouting broccoli, which I prefer to calabrese and, indeed, regard as a seasonal delicacy. She was unimpressed, expecting "little trees".
As a kid, we only ever had purple sprouting broccoli (from my dad's garden) and I prefer it, too. I was in my teens before I had calabrese, at a friend's house. Never had any luck growing either, myself - tried a couple of times and it bolts before there's a decent head. Everything else we've tried we've managed to grow well enough, so just shrugged and given up. Purple sprouting is rarely available to buy here and expensive, I do miss it.
It's really easy to grow, delicious, first thing available in spring, and only bolts when you are fed up with it and have stopped harvesting. If you garden at all you should grow it
Well, maybe we should try again then, perhaps out earlier, protected if necessary. Might be we've put the seedlings out too late (they were passed on from family as spares rather than grown by us) so they're not growing enough before going to seed...
We do plenty else: carrots, peas, beans, pumpkins, peppers and tomatoes this year (plus fruit).
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
What's wrong with the existing visa system?
You can get a visa so long as the pay is the higher of the typical pay in the sector or £30,000.
You've just capped HGV driver wages at £30K
and removed the incentive for companies to pay to train new drivers up (why spend £5k training him, I can bring someone in from Bulgaria).
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
The evidence that members choose good leaders is pretty damning, both here and abroad. Why should a process that does not achieve its goals be continued?
I wouldnt be giving the unions a say, but nor do I support one member one vote for election of party leaders. They should be chosen by those who work with them and know them closely, not just the image they want to portray during a campaign.
The problem is, it's a solution looking for a problem. Mandelson seems to be under the impression Starmer needs some sort of "Clause 4" moment, when in fact there isn't much of a constituency for this sort of politicking, and the kind of voters he may be seeking to attract with it are probably indifferent at best, or at worst, hostile, judging from today's polls.
Even to the right-of-centre, it looks essentially like fairly unsubtle machine politicking, which it is. In Mandelson's day, the symbolism of taking on the left might have been more important and overriding.
Brexit is working, its the only gamebin town. Driver shortages, container shortages etc are everywhere.
Driver shortages and container shortages aren't the same as food and petrol shortages, however. I haven't seen any reports of these in northern continental Europe up to now, which is what the Daily Mail constituency are beginning to notice also.
Disruptions in supply may well vary but a shortage of drivers makes such disruptions inevitable and that seems pretty universal in Europe at the moment.
There was a professional driver on R5 when I was driving home a couple of days ago who described how drivers had been treated as third class citizens, made to wait hours for both loads to be put on or taken off with no provision for them in terms of places to go and a pretty basic wage for a lonely, boring job. He admitted that he had just had a wage increase and that the supermarkets were now much keener to get them in and out. I am sure the likes of Tesco will want all its drivers on the road again as fast as possible at the moment.
There are certainly multiple well-known problems with the industry that have been widely reported, but until or unless people see plain evidence that the problems are as bad in neighbouring countries - which they haven't, and neither have I, frankly - Brexit will feature heavily.
I agree and made a similar point yesterday.
In America people are facing the same issues but they just pay whatever escalated prices are needed and get on with it. Inflation is running higher there, but the invisible hand is doing its job.
In the UK rather than 'Keep Calm And Carry On' we have 'whinge incessantly about Brexit'.
If you want to moan and moan then that's fine, you have free speech. But it won't get much done, not like gritting your teeth and actually paying your drivers or for timber or whatever the price the market demands.
I suggest that the issue is not necessarily Brexit itself, bit the apparent assumption in Government and Leavers generally, that 'we'll just Leave and all will be well'.
Very little thought was given to anything other than the obvious, and in many cases that was bodged.
All is well.
Its not the Government's job to fix companies supply chains, that's their own job. If something needs to change, they need to change it, and the market will ensure they do.
Thought boss of Tesco had said they had done everything in their power and shortages were still inevitable.
Time to grant visas for lorry drivers methinks. The Government won't survive long if most petrol stations are shut.
The boss of Tesco has a vested interest in not paying more.
He should stop moaning and pay what is required. But leftwingers would rather blame Brexit than see people get a pay rise.
The problem is that a pay rise doesn't stop the shortage, it just redistributes it. Same goes for social care, hospitality, health service, agriculture. The same people cannot be doing all these things.
It is time to look at how consumerist society works, and consider what is unnecessary in terms of employment.
If we could get human resources departments redeployed as HGV drivers the world would indeed be a happier place.
Much more dangerous though. I'd not trust most HR departments I've encountered to be in charge of a few tonnes of fast-moving metal. They don't normally display good reaction times!
I would have thought that HR would have been suited for other tasks.
For example, the methodology of emptying the liquid oxygen tanks of the Long Lance torpedo for maintenance, in the Imperial Japanese Nay consisted of
1) Place the torpedo on a remote sandbank or beach. 2) Equip the most junior torpedoman with a spanner. 3) Watch from a distance.
Apparently quite a few torpedos were successfully drained like this.
The government seems to be escaping criticism for halting HGV driver tests during lockdown amidst all the other forms of criticism. Does anyone know what other countries did?
I do know that we allowed uber and other taxis to operate freely throughout. Why was that safer and/or more important than doing an HGV test? It makes no sense at all to me, but perhaps I am missing something.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
What's wrong with the existing visa system?
You can get a visa so long as the pay is the higher of the typical pay in the sector or £30,000.
You've just capped HGV driver wages at £30K
and removed the incentive for companies to pay to train new drivers up (why spend £5k training him, I can bring someone in from Bulgaria).
That's the existing system today, so why aren't people applying for visas already?
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
The evidence that members choose good leaders is pretty damning, both here and abroad. Why should a process that does not achieve its goals be continued?
I wouldnt be giving the unions a say, but nor do I support one member one vote for election of party leaders. They should be chosen by those who work with them and know them closely, not just the image they want to portray during a campaign.
The problem is, it's a solution looking for a problem. Mandelson seems to be under the impression Starmer needs some sort of "Clause 4" moment, when in fact there isn't much of a constituency for this sort of politicking. Even to the right-of-centre it looks essentially like machine politicking, which really is what it is. In Mandelson's time the symbolism of taking on the left might have been more important.
The problem is the existing structure regularly throws up the likes of Trump, Johnson and Corbyn, the likes of whom very rarely got anywhere near power when it was mostly down to active politicians who worked with prospective candidates, rather than memberships. It does need changing, even if it is not urgent.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
What's wrong with the existing visa system?
You can get a visa so long as the pay is the higher of the typical pay in the sector or £30,000.
You've just capped HGV driver wages at £30K
and removed the incentive for companies to pay to train new drivers up (why spend £5k training him, I can bring someone in from Bulgaria).
That's the existing system today, so why aren't people applying for visas already?
Do some research and find out why yourself - it's obvious...
Should thoroughly test the theory that Brits wont do this back breaking hard labour at any price.
Followed swiftly by how willing we are to pay 20 quid for a head of broccoli...
More likely, the broccoli just isn’t harvested and doesn’t make it to the shops. Nobody can buy that broccoli.
Result:
Less broccoli choice More expensive broccoli Fewer broccoli jobs More broccoli imports Fewer broccoli exports
Now repeat across the entire economy.
You forget: happier (if possibly less healthy) kids
(although my two actually eat broccoli very happily - pretty much at the top of their veg preference list, maybe after sweetcorn - it's supposed to be something they hate, isn't it?)
I once introduced a teenager to purple sprouting broccoli, which I prefer to calabrese and, indeed, regard as a seasonal delicacy. She was unimpressed, expecting "little trees".
As a kid, we only ever had purple sprouting broccoli (from my dad's garden) and I prefer it, too. I was in my teens before I had calabrese, at a friend's house. Never had any luck growing either, myself - tried a couple of times and it bolts before there's a decent head. Everything else we've tried we've managed to grow well enough, so just shrugged and given up. Purple sprouting is rarely available to buy here and expensive, I do miss it.
It's really easy to grow, delicious, first thing available in spring, and only bolts when you are fed up with it and have stopped harvesting. If you garden at all you should grow it
Well, maybe we should try again then, perhaps out earlier, protected if necessary. Might be we've put the seedlings out too late (they were passed on from family as spares rather than grown by us) so they're not growing enough before going to seed...
We do plenty else: carrots, peas, beans, pumpkins, peppers and tomatoes this year (plus fruit).
I'm talking specifically about PSB - you said it was calabrese that was bolting? Difference being PSB overwinters and ripens in spring so bolting much less likely. ... Sorry now see I misread, you have had problems with both. But keep trying.
The government seems to be escaping criticism for halting HGV driver tests during lockdown amidst all the other forms of criticism. Does anyone know what other countries did?
I do know that we allowed uber and other taxis to operate freely throughout. Why was that safer and/or more important than doing an HGV test? It makes no sense at all to me, but perhaps I am missing something.
You aren't. It was a completely idiotic decision from Grant Shapps to halt all driving tests (including HGV licence renewals).
Long queues at this BP garage in Twyford. Staff having to manage the influx of cars… closing every so often when it gets too busy. Drivers coming here after another #petrol station nearby ran dry. Staff tell me they DO have enough supply until the weekend - hopefully. https://twitter.com/LomasChar/status/1441370915527282691/video/1
People need to calm down. The government will bring in army drivers if need be - a shortage of fuel would not be good for them. So it will be sorted. My PHEV is on 70 miles of fuel range but I managed to restrain myself from filling the tank earlier because I'm not going anywhere other than locally for the next week.
I can think of one potential local effect in Soham: they've a new train station opening soon (December?). I would not be surprised if the investment had had an effect on voting.
A few years back, we went to Soham village fete. Whilst there, someone told us that the village was famous for two things: a massive ammunition train explosion in 1944, and the Soham murders. He wished it could be famous for something more positive ...
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Like it has improved conditions and wages over the last 20 years? They have finally got a negotiation position but that is apparently not acceptable and must now be undermined. I am sure that they should just be grateful, or something.
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
+1
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
What's wrong with the existing visa system?
You can get a visa so long as the pay is the higher of the typical pay in the sector or £30,000.
You've just capped HGV driver wages at £30K
and removed the incentive for companies to pay to train new drivers up (why spend £5k training him, I can bring someone in from Bulgaria).
That's the existing system today, so why aren't people applying for visas already?
HGV drivers are not on the list iirc and the more open scheme has yet to be implemented so it's a mix of tier 2 skilled worker visas plus the lower salary limit.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
The evidence that members choose good leaders is pretty damning, both here and abroad. Why should a process that does not achieve its goals be continued?
I wouldnt be giving the unions a say, but nor do I support one member one vote for election of party leaders. They should be chosen by those who work with them and know them closely, not just the image they want to portray during a campaign.
The problem is, it's a solution looking for a problem. Mandelson seems to be under the impression Starmer needs some sort of "Clause 4" moment, when in fact there isn't much of a constituency for this sort of politicking. Even to the right-of-centre it looks essentially like machine politicking, which really is what it is. In Mandelson's time the symbolism of taking on the left might have been more important.
The problem is the existing structure regularly throws up the likes of Trump, Johnson and Corbyn, the likes of whom very rarely got anywhere near power when it was mostly down to active politicians who worked with prospective candidates, rather than memberships. It does need changing, even if it is not urgent.
I'm not sure you can compare those processes, because that might be to blur the criteria of current popularity with the process of election. I don't think one can really compare Miliband's intentions in setting up the Labour system with the process that elected Trump, for instance.
Long queues at this BP garage in Twyford. Staff having to manage the influx of cars… closing every so often when it gets too busy. Drivers coming here after another #petrol station nearby ran dry. Staff tell me they DO have enough supply until the weekend - hopefully. https://twitter.com/LomasChar/status/1441370915527282691/video/1
People need to calm down. The government will bring in army drivers if need be - a shortage of fuel would not be good for them. So it will be sorted. My PHEV is on 70 miles of fuel range but I managed to restrain myself from filling the tank earlier because I'm not going anywhere other than locally for the next week.
I live there. I have not seen any such queues nor have I seen any garages without fuel this week. Asda had some pumps closed because of a lack of fuel last week for a day or two. This does seem to be a panic brought on by irresponsible journalism.
The government seems to be escaping criticism for halting HGV driver tests during lockdown amidst all the other forms of criticism. Does anyone know what other countries did?
I do know that we allowed uber and other taxis to operate freely throughout. Why was that safer and/or more important than doing an HGV test? It makes no sense at all to me, but perhaps I am missing something.
You aren't. It was a completely idiotic decision from Grant Shapps to halt all driving tests (including HGV licence renewals).
I think the issue went
Uber driver - can make their own decision (as they are self employed, so in reality had zero choice but to continue working) Driver tester - can't be forced to work in an unsafe environment....
Update on petrol and empty shelves in suburban east London- in my local Sainsbury's this morning, the usual spotty gaps as per recently on the shelves, generally not as full as say 6 months ago but most things available. The most obvious gap was on the pasta aisle. I was able to get everything I wanted but I did take the last bottle of Bishop's Finger (other beers remain available).
Outside, quite a few cars queueing for fuel, presumably on the basis that if the government says there is no need to panic buy, then one should buy.
I like a Bishop's Finger but it is an almost guaranteed hangover.
Any SKS fans explain why Lab are on 32 in latest YG
Thanks in advance
30 mins and counting
Come on SKS fans
Surely RP could at least say but Corbyn Trot Trot Trot
More seriously, WTF do they think they are doing reinstating Benn's electoral college? I find myself on the same side as Laura Pillock on this one - you have to let party members elect the leader as the other parties do. OK so you have a selectorate stage first, but the vote needs to go to members.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
The evidence that members choose good leaders is pretty damning, both here and abroad. Why should a process that does not achieve its goals be continued?
I wouldnt be giving the unions a say, but nor do I support one member one vote for election of party leaders. They should be chosen by those who work with them and know them closely, not just the image they want to portray during a campaign.
The problem is, it's a solution looking for a problem. Mandelson seems to be under the impression Starmer needs some sort of "Clause 4" moment, when in fact there isn't much of a constituency for this sort of politicking. Even to the right-of-centre it looks essentially like machine politicking, which really is what it is. In Mandelson's time the symbolism of taking on the left might have been more important.
The problem is the existing structure regularly throws up the likes of Trump, Johnson and Corbyn, the likes of whom very rarely got anywhere near power when it was mostly down to active politicians who worked with prospective candidates, rather than memberships. It does need changing, even if it is not urgent.
I'm not sure you can compare those processes, because that might be to blur the criteria of current popularity with the process of election. I don't think one can really compare Miliband's intentions in setting up the Labour system with the process that elected Trump, for instance.
I am sure the intentions were good. But the outcomes are bad. Re-design the process.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Like it has improved conditions and wages over the last 20 years? They have finally got a negotiation position but that is apparently not acceptable and must now be undermined. I am sure that they should just be grateful, or something.
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
What about -
- unlimited visas - for PAYE employment at £50K a year
Long queues at this BP garage in Twyford. Staff having to manage the influx of cars… closing every so often when it gets too busy. Drivers coming here after another #petrol station nearby ran dry. Staff tell me they DO have enough supply until the weekend - hopefully. https://twitter.com/LomasChar/status/1441370915527282691/video/1
People need to calm down. The government will bring in army drivers if need be - a shortage of fuel would not be good for them. So it will be sorted. My PHEV is on 70 miles of fuel range but I managed to restrain myself from filling the tank earlier because I'm not going anywhere other than locally for the next week.
There are no fuel shortages and as you say the army can step in if necessary...
Long queues at this BP garage in Twyford. Staff having to manage the influx of cars… closing every so often when it gets too busy. Drivers coming here after another #petrol station nearby ran dry. Staff tell me they DO have enough supply until the weekend - hopefully. https://twitter.com/LomasChar/status/1441370915527282691/video/1
People need to calm down. The government will bring in army drivers if need be - a shortage of fuel would not be good for them. So it will be sorted. My PHEV is on 70 miles of fuel range but I managed to restrain myself from filling the tank earlier because I'm not going anywhere other than locally for the next week.
Scott lives for disaster news - who can forget the fake Covid figures he posted because it made the UK look bad. Sadly there is no known cure or vaccine for BDS.
Is it possible for the government to be any more incompetent? We are now pleading for an emergency agreement to provide "some kind of food that is lacking in England". What next - Care Packages?
But I don't see the problem, they just need to pay more until people are willing to do the work required. And if they can't, we can always import from the EU...
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Like it has improved conditions and wages over the last 20 years? They have finally got a negotiation position but that is apparently not acceptable and must now be undermined. I am sure that they should just be grateful, or something.
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
What about -
- unlimited visas - for PAYE employment at £50K a year
I don't have any problems with immigration at that level because they are clearly meeting a need that cannot be met more cheaply by the indigenous population.
I have much more of a problem with the many casualties of our truly crap education system (for those other than the elite) finding themselves out competed for minimum wage jobs by people who are willing to undercut those entitlements because it is still way more than they can hope to get at home just so we can have cheap deliveries, care providers, crop pickers and cappuccinos. To me this is not only very poor economics, it is morally wrong with the better off professional classes exploiting those least able to provide for themselves with what amounts to unfair competition.
The red wallers (and this is obviously a simplistic generalisation) voted with their wallets against the professional classes. They were absolutely right to do so. And the professionals now need to stop squealing and pay up.
Is it possible for the government to be any more incompetent? We are now pleading for an emergency agreement to provide "some kind of food that is lacking in England". What next - Care Packages?
But I don't see the problem, they just need to pay more until people are willing to do the work required. And if they can't, we can always import from the EU...
"Boss mad because they have to pay staff more" doesn't really make for a compelling headline, does it?
But I don't see the problem, they just need to pay more until people are willing to do the work required. And if they can't, we can always import from the EU...
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Like it has improved conditions and wages over the last 20 years? They have finally got a negotiation position but that is apparently not acceptable and must now be undermined. I am sure that they should just be grateful, or something.
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
What about -
- unlimited visas - for PAYE employment at £50K a year
I don't have any problems with immigration at that level because they are clearly meeting a need that cannot be met more cheaply by the indigenous population.
I have much more of a problem with the many casualties of our truly crap education system (for those other than the elite) finding themselves out competed for minimum wage jobs by people who are willing to undercut those entitlements because it is still way more than they can hope to get at home just so we can have cheap deliveries, care providers, crop pickers and cappuccinos. To me this is not only very poor economics, it is morally wrong with the better off professional classes exploiting those least able to provide for themselves with what amounts to unfair competition.
The red wallers (and this is obviously a simplistic generalisation) voted with their wallets against the professional classes. They were absolutely right to do so. And the professionals now need to stop squealing and pay up.
There was a large affluent, and older, block who voted for Brexit, and many poorer and younger urban voters in places like London and Manchester who voted for remain.
So visa loosenings for hauliers it is. Boris as usual folding and taking the path of least resistance for his client vote, one more stab in the front to the working class brexit vote that delivered him his majority.
No doubt Sunak is nodding along at how this is a sensible compromise.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Like it has improved conditions and wages over the last 20 years? They have finally got a negotiation position but that is apparently not acceptable and must now be undermined. I am sure that they should just be grateful, or something.
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
What about -
- unlimited visas - for PAYE employment at £50K a year
I don't have any problems with immigration at that level because they are clearly meeting a need that cannot be met more cheaply by the indigenous population.
I have much more of a problem with the many casualties of our truly crap education system (for those other than the elite) finding themselves out competed for minimum wage jobs by people who are willing to undercut those entitlements because it is still way more than they can hope to get at home just so we can have cheap deliveries, care providers, crop pickers and cappuccinos. To me this is not only very poor economics, it is morally wrong with the better off professional classes exploiting those least able to provide for themselves with what amounts to unfair competition.
The red wallers (and this is obviously a simplistic generalisation) voted with their wallets against the professional classes. They were absolutely right to do so. And the professionals now need to stop squealing and pay up.
There was a large affluent block that voted for Brexit, and many poorer voters in places like London and Manchester who voted remain.
Sure, I am reasonably affluent and I voted for Brexit. But the patronising rubbish that those on low wages only voted for Brexit because they were too stupid or did not see the benefits and disbenefits for themselves is based upon narrow self interest and a lack of comprehension about how too many in this country live.
The number of people on Universal Credit was 6.0 million on 14 January 2021, up 2% from 10 December 2020. There has been a 98% (3.0 million) increase in the number of people on Universal Credit from 3 million on 12 March 2020, the last count date before the coronavirus pandemic.
I wonder if Covid means there are a whole set of families who have now discovered how much easier life is on Universal credit where you can often end up with the similar money for far less work and have discovered a better work / life balance due to the reduced hours they worked over the past year or so.
It could explain why we have so many seemingly impossible to fill job adverts, a lot of people are happy with what they are currently getting on 14-20 hours of work a week.
No wonder the Treasury is so desperate to get rid of the £20 uplift - they may see it as a trigger to encourage people working a few more hours. At the same time rumour has it that the point at which the taper kicks in may be raised slightly to encourage people to do another hour or 2 more.
Key cabinet ministers meeting this afternoon to address driver shortages and visa scheme
If I was a lorry driver who had just got my first decent wage increase for a long time I would be seriously pissed.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
Why would they be pissed? This won't force down their wages, and it will improve conditions as the sector won't be under such massive pressure.
Like it has improved conditions and wages over the last 20 years? They have finally got a negotiation position but that is apparently not acceptable and must now be undermined. I am sure that they should just be grateful, or something.
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
We aren't talking about flooding the market, just a limited time visa. Which will fill roles that can't otherwise be filled. It can't drive down the wages of non-existent drivers.
Again, paying the drivers more and improving working conditions is a Good Thing. But doing so will not fill the immediate term shortage of drivers because there are not enough drivers.
Comments
I'm more than content to stick with my principles and say the Government are doing the wrong thing, if they do the wrong thing. I agree with the Government because they're doing the right thing, not because I'm loyal.
If the Government change and do the wrong thing, then its still the wrong thing, just like the jobs tax.
Tbh, the evidence from Switzerland has always been pretty clear. Have large barriers at the bottom of the market and very few at that top. Everyone wins that way.
Outside, quite a few cars queueing for fuel, presumably on the basis that if the government says there is no need to panic buy, then one should buy.
They should by any definition be in the polling doldrums but the constant mystery is just why labour are not seen as the alternative government, or has Corbyn trashed the brand so comprehensively
Perhaps even a D notice should be slapped on media when there are teething issues with with this, to save a bigger problem. Certainly the riots of 2012 were exacerbated by the Tv coverage, which they won’t be allowed to do next time, editorial restraint could help in situations like this.
Q Have you been unable to buy any of your normal items?
A Yes
Q Did it affect your dinner?
A No.
I am not suggesting that there are no problems - there clearly are, just that it is being spun by some into something much bigger than the reality, and above story is an example of how that can happen.
That you don’t know what an econometrician is?
There are free dictionaries online, these days.
So do I go mano a mano with a whole academic discipline, or do i fill my tank?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17545258
The government made a mistake in advising people to store petrol in jerrycans at home to prepare for a possible strike by fuel tanker drivers, a transport minister has said.
Mike Penning said Cabinet Minister Francis Maude had misunderstood the size of a jerrycan, which is 20 litres.
At this stage, handing more power to the unions is the opposite of the image they want to give out. Union bosses still suffer from foaming-dog fever.
In fact it's almost like the plan is a desperate attempt to stop the Trade Unions separating away from the Labour party (which is a problem as the Labour Party needs their fundraising).
If we have scarce few people willing to work hard picking vegetables then that will be a valuable job that pays well.
Some people are petrified of seeing other people get a good day's wage though.
One mustn’t cite them, apparently.
I bet they are glad they’ve Brexited.
There are 6m EU citizens who already have rights to be here. I would be astonished if this did not include tens of thousands of drivers. But if they are being offered better wages elsewhere that is where they will go.
So much so, I'm considering switching my allegiances to Leave and Stay out.
If farmers can compete with the global economy, paying farm workers a decent salary, then that is fantastic. If they can't, then the land can be repurposed to something more productive instead.
The riots spread around the country 2012 because of the overkill TV coverage. The lesson learned was when cars start burning in Paris the media are no longer allowed to show it. And the government here passed this message to the TV companies. We won’t get wall to wall on the spot in the air coverage of rioting ever again on UK TV.
I wouldnt be giving the unions a say, but nor do I support one member one vote for election of party leaders. They should be chosen by those who work with them and know them closely, not just the image they want to portray during a campaign.
The government probably needs to introduce a good quota system here - you can have 1 work permit for every 4/6/8 employed UK drivers.
With the quota reduced in stages over the next 18 months
Interesting and mostly off script local election results with, notably, LDs losing in Cambridgeshire.
All the people we used to know
They're an illusion to me now
Some are mathematicians
Some are carpenter's wives
Don't know how it all got started
I don't what they do with their lives
But me, I'm still on the road
Heading for another joint...?
... and how much did it cost?
You can get a visa so long as the pay is the higher of the typical pay in the sector or £30,000.
If the farmer is uncompetitive they should go bust and the land can be more useful even as wild natural land, or go to a farmer that's more competitive, or some other tangible use.
We do plenty else: carrots, peas, beans, pumpkins, peppers and tomatoes this year (plus fruit).
and removed the incentive for companies to pay to train new drivers up (why spend £5k training him, I can bring someone in from Bulgaria).
Even to the right-of-centre, it looks essentially like fairly unsubtle machine politicking, which it is. In Mandelson's day, the symbolism of taking on the left might have been more important and overriding.
Britain Elects
@BritainElects
Soham North (East Cambridgeshire) by-election result:
CON: 50.8% (+8.6)
LDEM: 38.8% (-9.1)
LAB: 7.5% (-2.5)
GRN: 2.9% (+2.9)
Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.
For example, the methodology of emptying the liquid oxygen tanks of the Long Lance torpedo for maintenance, in the Imperial Japanese Nay consisted of
1) Place the torpedo on a remote sandbank or beach.
2) Equip the most junior torpedoman with a spanner.
3) Watch from a distance.
Apparently quite a few torpedos were successfully drained like this.
Do we have anything like that going?
Listening to a naval history prog in the background.
"HMS Warrior's armour needed 33 foot tons of energy per inch of shot circumference to penetrate".
(Yes, the French armour was poorer in quality.)
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/2601877/queues-outside-tayside-and-fife-petrol-stations-as-drivers-urged-dont-panic-buy/
Britain Elects
Wormholt & White City (Hammersmith & Fulham) by-election result:
LAB: 70.0% (-5.6)
CON: 20.6% (+6.3)
GRN: 5.3% (+5.3)
LDEM: 4.1% (-3.2)
Labour HOLD.
Britain Elects
Cuddington (Epsom & Ewell) by-election result:
RES: 56.0% (-9.1)
LAB: 19.8% (+9.2)
CON: 12.9% (+1.3)
LDEM: 11.2% (-1.5)
Residents' Association HOLD.
Britain Elects
Shepshed West (Charnwood) by-election result:
CON: 43.6% (+2.2)
LAB: 26.9% (+0.9)
GRN: 25.7% (+14.4)
LDEM: 3.8% (-3.9)
Conservative HOLD.
No UKIP (-13.5) as prev.
Britain Elects
Kendal North (South Lakeland) by-election result:
LDEM: 46.9% (+8.7)
GRN: 39.8% (+13.0)
CON: 9.2% (-12.1)
LAB: 4.1% (-9.6)
Liberal Democrat HOLD.
Kendal North (South Lakeland) by-election result:
LDEM: 46.9% (+8.7)
GRN: 39.8% (+13.0)
CON: 9.2% (-12.1)
LAB: 4.1% (-9.6)
(They'll trend LD or Lab once they're no longer nouveau riche and truly part of the non-metropolitan liberal elite)
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/anglia/improving-the-railway-in-anglia/reconnecting-soham/
A few years back, we went to Soham village fete. Whilst there, someone told us that the village was famous for two things: a massive ammunition train explosion in 1944, and the Soham murders. He wished it could be famous for something more positive ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soham_rail_disaster
If they are lucky the shortfall of drivers in the EU will mean that the competition is limited.
There are no fuel shortages and as you say the army can step in if necessary
It will be interesting to hear what comes out of the cabinet this pm
Uber driver - can make their own decision (as they are self employed, so in reality had zero choice but to continue working)
Driver tester - can't be forced to work in an unsafe environment....
- unlimited visas
- for PAYE employment at £50K a year
Or the same ones being sent to Northern Ireland?
His industry has been crippled by lack of EU workers
So he, like others, is having to reduce turkey supply
Which means there will be a UK shortage of turkeys
Which means…
Supermarkets will fill the shortage by buying…
TURKEYS FROM THE EU
https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1441356626720555014
If the turkey farmer can't compete then what are they doing farming turkey?
If they can, good luck to them.
https://www.politico.eu/article/british-pm-johnson-wanted-emergency-food-deal-says-brazils-bolsonaro-embassy-disagrees/
But I don't see the problem, they just need to pay more until people are willing to do the work required. And if they can't, we can always import from the EU...
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/world/2021/09/683_315988.html
I have much more of a problem with the many casualties of our truly crap education system (for those other than the elite) finding themselves out competed for minimum wage jobs by people who are willing to undercut those entitlements because it is still way more than they can hope to get at home just so we can have cheap deliveries, care providers, crop pickers and cappuccinos. To me this is not only very poor economics, it is morally wrong with the better off professional classes exploiting those least able to provide for themselves with what amounts to unfair competition.
The red wallers (and this is obviously a simplistic generalisation) voted with their wallets against the professional classes. They were absolutely right to do so. And the professionals now need to stop squealing and pay up.
Interesting to see what depths Scott is prepared to scrape each day.
And my question was are they already driving ambulances in Scotland, or in Northern Ireland?
How stupid are you?
No doubt Sunak is nodding along at how this is a sensible compromise.
What does Wes Streeting have to say?
There is no shame in admitting you don't know, lads.
The number of people on Universal Credit was 6.0 million on 14 January 2021, up 2% from 10 December 2020. There has been a 98% (3.0 million) increase in the number of people on Universal Credit from 3 million on 12 March 2020, the last count date before the coronavirus pandemic.
It's on https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-14-january-2021/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-14-january-2021
I wonder if Covid means there are a whole set of families who have now discovered how much easier life is on Universal credit where you can often end up with the similar money for far less work and have discovered a better work / life balance due to the reduced hours they worked over the past year or so.
It could explain why we have so many seemingly impossible to fill job adverts, a lot of people are happy with what they are currently getting on 14-20 hours of work a week.
No wonder the Treasury is so desperate to get rid of the £20 uplift - they may see it as a trigger to encourage people working a few more hours.
At the same time rumour has it that the point at which the taper kicks in may be raised slightly to encourage people to do another hour or 2 more.
Again, paying the drivers more and improving working conditions is a Good Thing. But doing so will not fill the immediate term shortage of drivers because there are not enough drivers.