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Two new VI voting polls out today adding to the confusion – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,271
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Interestingly Bidens whole argument to pull out of Afghanistan was because there hadn’t been a terrorist threat for 20 years.

    And here we have ISIS-K (supposedly), looking to move in and fill a vacuum.

    He's been making the argument for a long time that the US invade + occupy project was a mistake and recent events don't on the face of it threaten this assessment. But we'll have to see how things pan out over the longer term.
    That sounds like “let’s find an excuse just to ignore his whole performance so far”
    Not at all. My point is that if you think the whole project - death toll 250k - was a mistake, and therefore it was a good decision to end it, you won't be changing your view on account of the chaos around the point of exit. You won't see these terrible events as a reason to change your mind on the big picture. Unless you're a Trumper of course. Then you might attempt such a challenging contortion.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,334
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    If we're talking about him, he's won.

    In that, he's a bit like Trump. And one of the joys of the last six months has been not having to hear whatever 'thoughts' passed through the orange imbecile's brain.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    DougSeal said:

    @tincanfield
    Cornwall residents have had more Covid cases since the start of July 2021 than they had in total before then.

    Seems to also be true if the Highlands and Islands. Keep away folks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,737
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the California recall:

    Well, the Democrats seem to be getting their arses into gear. Finally Los Angeles is full of "stop the Recall" posters. It may all be a little too late, but the Democrats finally seem to be getting organised. The way the election is organised probably favours the Dems somewhat: it's all postal, with every California voter having received two ballot papers: one on recall, and one on who gets the job if Newsom is recalled.

    My gut is that Newsom will survive the recall by around 53-47. While his opponents are well organised, the anger at Newsom has receded somewhat over the last six months, and California is doing distinctly better on Covid than many other states. The booming economy probably doesn't harm him either.

    But it sure is interesting *if* he does get recalled. There are 24 Republicans on the ballot paper to replace him, and top of the list is Caitlyn Janner. When I say top of the list, I mean the first Republican on the list of fifty-odd names. Poll leader Larry Elder is buried in the middle. And, of course, poll leader is relative.

    Larry Elder has the support of 20% of people who expressed a preference in the polling. *BUT* the number of people who expressed a preference was only about 45% of respondents. Most Democrats shrugged their shoulders. But we aren't going to see more than half of recall voters leave the second question blank, so Mr Elder's true share is probably closer to 10%. This means that the next Governor race could be very interesting.

    Who's underrated in this race? Kevin Paffrath. He's the "YouTube influencer" who seems to be getting the most traction with Democrats. And because of the craziness of this election, he may only need to get the votes of one-in-three or one-in-four Democrats to win the Governorship.

    Edit to add: Paffrath has another advantage - there are only nine Democrats on the ballot, against 24 Republicans.

    I've now confirmed the Newson team strategy is to tell people to leave the second question blank.

    Yes.

    And he's getting absolutely crucified in the (liberal) press in California for it.

    If the Dems lose the recall election 51-49, and a quarter of Democrats leave the second question blank, then Larry Elder (or possibly Caitlyn Janner) is the next Governor of California.

    Eric Garcetti should have put his name forward, saying "Vote No to the recall, but remember to vote for me on the second paper, just in case." And Newsom should have backed that.

    Instead Newsom has created a situation where someone with a fifth of the level of support he has ends up as Governor.

    (Of course, if Larry Elder becomes Governor, he will face a recall election himself.)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,400
    DougSeal said:

    @tincanfield
    Cornwall residents have had more Covid cases since the start of July 2021 than they had in total before then.

    I doubt deaths though. Vaccinations mean coivd can be lived with
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,400

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    That wound be fun….

    Présidentielle 2022: Michel Barnier va annoncer sa candidature à la primaire de la droite

    https://twitter.com/bfmtv/status/1430885855053312002?s=21

    I quite like M. Barnier - he was by far the pick of the EU negotiators and AIUI, was usually sober.
    So the French may have a choice between Macron and Barnier. Two serious, intelligent politicians (yes, I know there's Le Pen as well).

    We had a choice between Johnson and Corbyn. The USA had a choice between Trump and Biden. Methinks the quality of the field is somewhat higher in France.
    Francois Hollande commented on Macron today, saying that he is a political void without any convictions.
    I've never understood why that's a negative. My first rule of hiring is to find people who say:

    "I don't know the right answer. But I know how we can run a test to find out what will work best."

    I wish we had more politicians like that.
    There's probably a middleground to be reached between someone who cleaves too rigidly to their principles/convictions, or has shitty ones, and someone who is entirely without them. I think in political leaders whilst there are dangers to ideologues, a coherent vision grounded in at least a few convictions is probably not a bad thing.

    Nevertheless, it's what they do which is more important than why they do it, and an unprincipled sod could be just the right thing. Though you are, perhaps, a bit more likely to know what to expect from someone with some genuine principles.
    Have beliefs but hold them lightly. Robert, it was you who put me onto Superforecasting.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,120
    Sandpit said:

    Yes, it was always going to be about how the days and weeks of the withdrawal played out. Today’s events were not particularly unexpected, obviously a negative for the politicians, as well as a tragedy for those directly involved and their families.

    Yes, my recollection of the fall of Saigon was, appalling and tragic as it was for the South Vietnamese, the only American casualties were two killed in a North Vietnamese rocket attack on Tan Son Nhut on April 29th.

    At least, for the most part, it could be argued, the "boys" had got out and made it home.

    Part of the public support for the withdrawal from Afghanistan was, as it had been in Vietnam, the constant drip-drip of casualties from a war which after 20 years seemed far away and further away from resolution.

    Will we now see, as GIs are still being killed, a renewed call to "get out" from Kabul? We have five more days (in theory) - there will be those in America who ask how many American lives are worth what is patently a lost cause?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,400

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.

    Morgan, Lineker, Fox, they all do it.
    tbf so do we (on here)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 13,904

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.

    Morgan, Lineker, Fox, they all do it.
    tbf so do we (on here)
    Yes but we only get paid 25p per post and £2 per like. Fox et al make hundreds of thousands from theirs.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.

    Morgan, Lineker, Fox, they all do it.
    tbf so do we (on here)
    Some do....
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,400

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.

    Morgan, Lineker, Fox, they all do it.
    tbf so do we (on here)
    Yes but we only get paid 25p per post and £2 per like. Fox et al make hundreds of thousands from theirs.
    oh I must be on a higher tariff then getting a fiver for my likes and 50p a post
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,273

    rcs1000 said:

    That wound be fun….

    Présidentielle 2022: Michel Barnier va annoncer sa candidature à la primaire de la droite

    https://twitter.com/bfmtv/status/1430885855053312002?s=21

    I quite like M. Barnier - he was by far the pick of the EU negotiators and AIUI, was usually sober.
    So the French may have a choice between Macron and Barnier. Two serious, intelligent politicians (yes, I know there's Le Pen as well).

    We had a choice between Johnson and Corbyn. The USA had a choice between Trump and Biden. Methinks the quality of the field is somewhat higher in France.
    Francois Hollande commented on Macron today, saying that he is a political void without any convictions.
    Well, Hollande is a numpty then. Whatever you think of Macron (and I'm not overly keen), his regular 'state of the nation' speeches contain real meat, are thoughtful and wide-ranging, and reflect on the future of France, both internally and externally, drawing on a range of ideas and intellectual thought. He's not easy to pigeon-hole, which is why I suspect people say he lacks conviction. But at least he tries to paint the big picture. Which other leader does that these days? Maybe Xi Jinping, for good or evil. By comparison, Johnson is an embarrassment.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 13,904

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.

    Morgan, Lineker, Fox, they all do it.
    tbf so do we (on here)
    Yes but we only get paid 25p per post and £2 per like. Fox et al make hundreds of thousands from theirs.
    oh I must be on a higher tariff then getting a fiver for my likes and 50p a post
    That is the rate offered to those who don't get quite so many likes......
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,115

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.

    Morgan, Lineker, Fox, they all do it.
    tbf so do we (on here)
    Yes but we only get paid 25p per post and £2 per like. Fox et al make hundreds of thousands from theirs.
    oh I must be on a higher tariff then getting a fiver for my likes and 50p a post
    Peanuts. The real money gets made on the PB discord server.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new middle aged mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.
    Viz did a fantastic fake advert a few months ago, aimed at wives and girlfriends trying to stop their midlife crisis partners from starting social media careers. Sometimes they catch the zeitgeist. (Ahem PBers.)
    Podcast-B-Gone!!!

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,271

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    I'm not even going to open that. Don't need to. I know for a certain fact it will be yet more evidence of a man embarrassing himself on social media.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,334

    DougSeal said:

    @tincanfield
    Cornwall residents have had more Covid cases since the start of July 2021 than they had in total before then.

    Seems to also be true if the Highlands and Islands. Keep away folks.
    It's not quite as bad as west Scotland, but it's been ripping through my hometown for a few weeks now. Currently 422 per 100,000. For some reason, we've got rather low vaccination figures for the local area: 83.2 first, 72.9 second - although nowhere near as low as Cambridge.
  • IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    To be fair, the UK and US authorities in Kabul have been warning people for two days to not go to the airport, because of the threat of an imminent terrorist attack.

    One quite fierce irony (if it is true, there is so much misleading news) is this: apparently the intel that warned the US and UK about the imminent ISIS attack came from..... The Taliban

    Which kinda makes sense. They would know
    yeah just like Sinn Fein could tell you when an IRA attack was to happen
    ISIS-K hates the Taliban.
    Ah, so more INLA v. IRA then?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,153
    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?
  • Awful news from Afghanistan today. Condolences to all families involved.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,236

    DougSeal said:

    @tincanfield
    Cornwall residents have had more Covid cases since the start of July 2021 than they had in total before then.

    Seems to also be true if the Highlands and Islands. Keep away folks.
    But that's surely because these areas were very lightly hit until now.

    The vulnerable have been vaccinated. Live.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,153

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    I don't have a particular political affiliation, perhaps because my opinions don't neatly fit in with any party. Heck, they probably wouldn't fit in with the JosiasJessopIsBrilliant Party (membership: 0).
    Is there a membership fee? Happy to consider but I’m notoriously tight.
  • BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821

    How can you tell if Priti Patel is lying? She's either breathing and/or her mouth is moving.

    Priti Patel used incorrect data about illegal raves provided by the Met Police to justify emergency powers for police forces during the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, Mixmag can reveal.

    Introducing new powers for the police in an article for The Telegraph on August 28, 2020, the Home Secretary said: “In London alone, the Metropolitan Police has responded to more than 1,000 unlicensed events – such as big raves and parties – since the end of June, receiving information on more than 200 events across the city in a single weekend.

    “We will not allow this breathtakingly selfish behaviour from a senseless minority to jeopardise the progress we have made together.

    “That is why we are cracking down on the most serious breaches of social distancing restrictions.”

    An investigation by Mixmag has found that during this time The Met was using a flawed methodology to calculate the number of raves that it was responding to, which had the potential to dramatically inflate its statistics.

    Information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act has revealed that the figures published were actually the number of “messages” about illegal raves recorded on its “Computer Aided Dispatch” system rather than the number of confirmed unlicensed events.

    This means the Met could have counted individual events dozens or even hundreds of times in the numbers it published as well as including incidents that were not actually illegal raves.

    A separate CAD message is created every time the police are contacted and informed of a crime, so if more than 50 people report the same illegal rave the system creates more than 50 CAD messages for a single event.

    On 18 August 2021, in an emailed statement to Mixmag, the Met issued an apology for “confusion” over the statistics used by the Home Secretary.


    https://mixmag.net/feature/exclusive-priti-patel-incorrect-illegal-raves-data-emergency-powers-met-police

    Did she know the figures were bogus? I'm not a fan but if she thought they were true that doesnt constitute lying. She should apologise too tho.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,400
    edited August 2021
    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Its a great question and one that should be asked more of politicians and campaigners as well. Always suspicious of anyone who sees no pitfalls or wrong in their side so to speak.

    Personally for me , although I generally vote tory I hate inheritance and think it should be taxed more (as should general wealth)- to be fair I am more of a Liberal but they only stand in Liverpool it seems and I dont live there
  • DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    I have serious doubts as to the merits of Trident - though still think the UK should maintain nuclear weapons.

    I support drugs legalisation - though no mainstream politicians seem to support that.

    Though I do not identify with a political party.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Materialism and GDP as measures of success. They are, fundamentally, inimical to conservatism.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In unsurprising news, Laurence Fox shows he's a complete bellend.

    https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1430921927586103306

    It takes a special kind of mind to link kneeling before games with a player being charge with rape, and to do so in a ridiculous way even for that sentiment.
    Aside from the obvious bellendry, he is actually deeply unintelligent.
    I feel like he enjoyed the initial attention he farnered for some blunt, but not very controversial comments, and let it get to his head in a big way. He could have carved out a niche and had a level of respect, but chasing that high from shocking people and being anti anything mainstream you can find was the path.
    Its the new middle aged mid life crisis.....forget the penis extension sports car or the younger girlfriend, its the must get loads of attention on social media.
    Viz did a fantastic fake advert a few months ago, aimed at wives and girlfriends trying to stop their midlife crisis partners from starting social media careers. Sometimes they catch the zeitgeist. (Ahem PBers.)
    Podcast-B-Gone!!!

    Yeah! That’s the one. I nearly cut it out and stuck it on the fridge to remind myself to never podcast. (The thought had actually been going through my wrinkling, receding, whitening head.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,486

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,737
    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,400
    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    didnt they say if he got to the airport with his animals they would be evacuated?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,737
    edited August 2021

    How can you tell if Priti Patel is lying? She's either breathing and/or her mouth is moving.

    Priti Patel used incorrect data about illegal raves provided by the Met Police to justify emergency powers for police forces during the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, Mixmag can reveal.

    Introducing new powers for the police in an article for The Telegraph on August 28, 2020, the Home Secretary said: “In London alone, the Metropolitan Police has responded to more than 1,000 unlicensed events – such as big raves and parties – since the end of June, receiving information on more than 200 events across the city in a single weekend.

    “We will not allow this breathtakingly selfish behaviour from a senseless minority to jeopardise the progress we have made together.

    “That is why we are cracking down on the most serious breaches of social distancing restrictions.”

    An investigation by Mixmag has found that during this time The Met was using a flawed methodology to calculate the number of raves that it was responding to, which had the potential to dramatically inflate its statistics.

    Information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act has revealed that the figures published were actually the number of “messages” about illegal raves recorded on its “Computer Aided Dispatch” system rather than the number of confirmed unlicensed events.

    This means the Met could have counted individual events dozens or even hundreds of times in the numbers it published as well as including incidents that were not actually illegal raves.

    A separate CAD message is created every time the police are contacted and informed of a crime, so if more than 50 people report the same illegal rave the system creates more than 50 CAD messages for a single event.

    On 18 August 2021, in an emailed statement to Mixmag, the Met issued an apology for “confusion” over the statistics used by the Home Secretary.


    https://mixmag.net/feature/exclusive-priti-patel-incorrect-illegal-raves-data-emergency-powers-met-police

    Did she know the figures were bogus? I'm not a fan but if she thought they were true that doesnt constitute lying. She should apologise too tho.
    Ah, the 'incompetence' defence!

    Mixmag is not an organisation which engages in investigative journalism. What has happened here is that they saw the announcement and though "WTF? If there were 200 raves in London in a weekend, we'd surely know about most of them."

    And they sent a few emails, and found the truth. And good for them.

    Ms Patel should have asked the same questions. "200 illegal raves in a single weekend in London? That sounds like an awful lot. How many arrests were there? How many people went to them? I'd love to see how you got to that number."

    So, sure, she probably didn't lie. But she also should have taken one look at the number given to her and said "hmm.... that doesn't sound right."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,737

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Yes. Generally speaking the SNP mainstream are totally sold on the idiotic concept of legalising drugs. Not me. I can’t stand even softer drugs. Marijuana is a curse on the human race.

    I would love to see dealers endlessly hounded, convicted and thrown to rot in jail. And anybody caught buying drugs would be treated extremely harshly. At least 3 months imprisonment, with slopping out. That’ll teach the bastards.

    Mind you, by clearly stating my viewpoint here, I’m obviously not very embarrassed about it. Quite the opposite, I’m proud to be anti-c***.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,166
    edited August 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,554
    edited August 2021

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Yes. Generally speaking the SNP mainstream are totally sold on the idiotic concept of legalising drugs. Not me. I can’t stand even softer drugs. Marijuana is a curse on the human race.

    I would love to see dealers endlessly hounded, convicted and thrown to rot in jail. And anybody caught buying drugs would be treated extremely harshly. At least 3 months imprisonment, with slopping out. That’ll teach the bastards.

    Mind you, by clearly stating my viewpoint here, I’m obviously not very embarrassed about it. Quite the opposite, I’m proud to be anti-c***.
    I suppose for 'embarrass you' read ' cause the mainstream of that party to be embarrassed' and it works just as well.
  • Alistair said:
    He's Head & Shoulders above the rest of the Celtic squad.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,166
    edited August 2021
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,493
    rcs1000 said:

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
    I had a chat with a pharmacist colleague who reported on a letter a gp received demanding ivermectin, and if it was refused, demanding to know why. We decided that ‘because you are not a horse with worms’ was probably the best answer. Quite why this patient believes some twunk on the internet over the mhra, I have no idea. However, the way the jcvi is going, I’m starting to wonder...
  • rcs1000 said:

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
    I had a chat with a pharmacist colleague who reported on a letter a gp received demanding ivermectin, and if it was refused, demanding to know why. We decided that ‘because you are not a horse with worms’ was probably the best answer. Quite why this patient believes some twunk on the internet over the mhra, I have no idea. However, the way the jcvi is going, I’m starting to wonder...
    'Tired of experts' is thing these days.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    rcs1000 said:

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
    It does concern me that ivermectin is the active ingredient of my topical rosacea treatment, but is also what we use by the bucketload for the horses
  • MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    didnt they say if he got to the airport with his animals they would be evacuated?
    No they didn't. They said that they couldn't and wouldn't prioritise dogs and cats before people and were using their planes for people but if he organised his own charter plane for the cats and dogs to be evacuated with to the airport then he could use his own charter plane to do so.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,334

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Yes. Generally speaking the SNP mainstream are totally sold on the idiotic concept of legalising drugs. Not me. I can’t stand even softer drugs. Marijuana is a curse on the human race.

    I would love to see dealers endlessly hounded, convicted and thrown to rot in jail. And anybody caught buying drugs would be treated extremely harshly. At least 3 months imprisonment, with slopping out. That’ll teach the bastards.

    Mind you, by clearly stating my viewpoint here, I’m obviously not very embarrassed about it. Quite the opposite, I’m proud to be anti-c***.
    I have vacillated over drug legalisation all my adult life. I've never been a user (alcohol excepted), but knew lots of people who were.

    I think it's important to define which drugs. Some people talking about drug legalisation talk about *all* drugs, others just marijuana. The latter is more supportable than the former.

    Also: if marijuana is to be legalised, I want driving under its influence to be treated at least as strongly as drink-driving. This means there needs to be an accurate test, able to be done at the roadside. I'd also want it to be a criminal offence to smoke in front of, and around, children, especially in enclosed spaces. IMV it's akin to child abuse. (I also think smoking cigarettes or pipes in front of children is a nasty thing to do, but at least it doesn't have quite the same mind-altering effects on secondary smokers.)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 18,666

    Alistair said:
    He's Head & Shoulders above the rest of the Celtic squad.
    1.96m
  • Alistair said:
    He's Head & Shoulders above the rest of the Celtic squad.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INQQ7GgxRYc
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,231
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    @tincanfield
    Cornwall residents have had more Covid cases since the start of July 2021 than they had in total before then.

    Seems to also be true if the Highlands and Islands. Keep away folks.
    But that's surely because these areas were very lightly hit until now.

    The vulnerable have been vaccinated. Live.
    It does make a difference to one's views if one lives several score miles and perhaps a ferry or two from a major hospital.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,224
    Sturgeon's moon (no, really!)

    The Sturgeon Moon in its different stages as it rises above the Wallace Monument  Credit: Alasdair MacLeod
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2021/08/22/august-sturgeon-full-moon-2021-when-uk-where-visible-time/
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,120
    Just seen the latest Norstat poll - another poor poll for Centre who have not had a good campaign so far.

    A decent poll for Labour however and the centre-left bloc maintains a solid 51-39 lead over the centre-right bloc of parties.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,199

    Alistair said:
    He's Head & Shoulders above the rest of the Celtic squad.
    The other goal Celtic score against themselves is worse.
  • rcs1000 said:
    The mindset of the American outback - an attempt to gain meaning from emptiness.

    Does the USA have an equivalent word to the Australian outback ?

    There's heartland but that suggests more of a centre of activity than the sparsity of much of rural USA.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
    Fair enough on Wallace. But I'd still like to see proof that this was actually a decision made and orders given to implement, rather than claims from activists eliciting a cri de coeur from the Defence Secretary.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,153
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    I'm not a big fan of the NHS.
    That would be mine too.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,771

    rcs1000 said:
    The mindset of the American outback - an attempt to gain meaning from emptiness.

    Does the USA have an equivalent word to the Australian outback ?

    There's heartland but that suggests more of a centre of activity than the sparsity of much of rural USA.
    The Canadian equivalent is "the Boonies".
    I believe NZ is "the wop wops".
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204

    Alistair said:
    He's Head & Shoulders above the rest of the Celtic squad.
    1.96m
    So a small forward in the NBA.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    edited August 2021
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:
    The mindset of the American outback - an attempt to gain meaning from emptiness.

    Does the USA have an equivalent word to the Australian outback ?

    There's heartland but that suggests more of a centre of activity than the sparsity of much of rural USA.
    The Canadian equivalent is "the Boonies".
    I believe NZ is "the wop wops".
    In the US I think it is called Texas

    Actually, the closest term is probably 'flyover country'
  • kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    I'm not a big fan of the NHS.
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    I'm not a big fan of the NHS.
    That would be mine too.
    I'm curious.

    Bad experiences ? Prefer the system used in a different country ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,583
    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Plenty!

    1. Wishing to see the extinction of humankind
    2. Supporting Brexit
    3. Thinking that someone with a cock and balls is a man
    4. Being anti-abortion

    That's enough for now.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    Has this been covered on PB yet? Capitol police officers suing Trump and others over the insurrection.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/politics/capitol-police-officers-sue-donald-trump-rally-organizers/index.html
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,583

    Alistair said:
    He's Head & Shoulders above the rest of the Celtic squad.
    He'll have to switch to Tim-otei
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,913
    edited August 2021

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Plenty!

    1. Wishing to see the extinction of humankind
    2. Supporting Brexit
    3. Thinking that someone with a cock and balls is a man
    4. Being anti-abortion

    That's enough for now.
    I imagine in some left wing circles the reaction goes...

    1....bit odd...
    2....well Corbyn did....
    3......YOUR CANCELLLED
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,990
    An interesting article, but flawed. The Marie Celeste beat them to it.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/25/world/yara-birkeland-norway-crewless-container-ship-spc-intl/index.html
  • Cracking game of The Hundred T20 at the moment.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 893
    Afghanistan

    With reports of multiple explosions tonight (some of which appear to be either sonic booms and controlled detonations, others unclear) it is sadly evidence that the US had very good intelligence on the IS threat, so good that it wasnt really a threat, they knew it was definitely coming.

    How muchj knoweldge did they have? According to US offcials ISIS was in the vicinity in strength..the estimated figure was 'hundreds'.

    This leads to a question. The Taliban know plenty of the ISIS crew yet appear to have done nothing to have intercepted ANY of them in Kabul. Their cordon around the airport is looking at peoples paperwork but remarkably not checking for weapons or strangely bulky belts. All a bit strange but its really straightforward. Despite the talk, the Taliban have no particular concern about ISIS having a go. Yes they might have some of their people caught up but its not as if a) as if they put a premium on their footsoldiers lives and b) it only reminds the Americans to clear out and clear out quick. Its no accident the Taliban statement on the bombing was pointed about saying the incidents happens in area meant to be controlled by the US.

    The other point of note relates to a post of mine the other night about the US & UK initial processing points now operating outside the airport gates, a recent change, and no doubt agreed with the Taliban, and the possible security implications of that. As yet it isnt clear where the killed & injured US troops were when this happened as yet but it will be significant that within a day or two of this new arrangement that they got hit.

    There is also the claim that an Italian aircraft was shot at on its takeoff run. By who?

    Yet the biggest loss of life may actually not be caused by an explosion but perhaps the most unbelievably stupid action by the US. US officials passsed details of eligible Afghans, US citizens & green card holders to the Taliban in order that they would allow them through their airport cordon. Everyone knows a lot of Afghans are not getting through, so clearly that worked really well.






  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,804
    TimT said:

    Has this been covered on PB yet? Capitol police officers suing Trump and others over the insurrection.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/politics/capitol-police-officers-sue-donald-trump-rally-organizers/index.html

    Let's hope it ends with Trump not running again.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,916
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
    It does concern me that ivermectin is the active ingredient of my topical rosacea treatment, but is also what we use by the bucketload for the horses
    Horses shouldn't need ... that much...

    Do you have massive worm counts in Maryland ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,663

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Plenty!

    1. Wishing to see the extinction of humankind
    2. Supporting Brexit
    3. Thinking that someone with a cock and balls is a man
    4. Being anti-abortion

    That's enough for now.
    On 3, are you sure you’re out of step with most in the Labour Party? The only place I’ve ever discussed this issue to that level of detail is on here. I wonder to what extent people even think about this?

    On 4, what would the law be if you were dictator? I’m anti-abortion, but only in a prevention is better than the cure kind of way. I wouldn’t want to see it banned. Also, isn’t 4 in contradiction to 1?!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,804

    rcs1000 said:
    The mindset of the American outback - an attempt to gain meaning from emptiness.

    Does the USA have an equivalent word to the Australian outback ?

    There's heartland but that suggests more of a centre of activity than the sparsity of much of rural USA.
    "The belief that God controls everything that happens in the world is a core tenet of evangelicalism"

    Seems this may the key. It is God's Will that I die on ventilation at the ICU.

    How can you argue against that?
  • @DougSeal I think Tony Blair was a great PM.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
    It does concern me that ivermectin is the active ingredient of my topical rosacea treatment, but is also what we use by the bucketload for the horses
    Horses shouldn't need ... that much...

    Do you have massive worm counts in Maryland ?
    No, we have lots of horses...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 43,927
    Is America going to lay responsibility for todays dead servicemen at the door of the Biden White House, do we think?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,156

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Plenty!

    1. Wishing to see the extinction of humankind
    2. Supporting Brexit
    3. Thinking that someone with a cock and balls is a man
    4. Being anti-abortion

    That's enough for now.
    Number 1 is somewhat brave, but I’ll agree with you on the other three!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,115
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
    Fair enough on Wallace. But I'd still like to see proof that this was actually a decision made and orders given to implement, rather than claims from activists eliciting a cri de coeur from the Defence Secretary.
    I don't think he would've reacted just to random twats.

    I am sincerely hoping that if his ark flight takes off it gets taken out by a SAM. Not in a spirit of malice, but because it uses up a SAM which might otherwise have hit a plane full of decent human beings.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,224
    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Plenty!

    1. Wishing to see the extinction of humankind
    2. Supporting Brexit
    3. Thinking that someone with a cock and balls is a man
    4. Being anti-abortion

    That's enough for now.
    Number 1 is somewhat brave, but I’ll agree with you on the other three!
    Actually it's very optimistic - he'd way outlive Methuselah to see that eventuality.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 40,143
    Republican Senator Hawley calls for Biden to resign.

    https://twitter.com/hawleymo/status/1430991129638539269

    image
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,583
    tlg86 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    Plenty!

    1. Wishing to see the extinction of humankind
    2. Supporting Brexit
    3. Thinking that someone with a cock and balls is a man
    4. Being anti-abortion

    That's enough for now.
    On 3, are you sure you’re out of step with most in the Labour Party? The only place I’ve ever discussed this issue to that level of detail is on here. I wonder to what extent people even think about this?

    On 4, what would the law be if you were dictator? I’m anti-abortion, but only in a prevention is better than the cure kind of way. I wouldn’t want to see it banned. Also, isn’t 4 in contradiction to 1?!
    No, I would not ban abortion. But I would not allow it to be used as a proxy for contraception.

    I would seek to achieve extinction by the sterilisation of the entire human population so that we all die out in 100 years or so. I am not advocating mass killings or anything like that.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,058
    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
    Fair enough on Wallace. But I'd still like to see proof that this was actually a decision made and orders given to implement, rather than claims from activists eliciting a cri de coeur from the Defence Secretary.
    I don't think he would've reacted just to random twats.

    I am sincerely hoping that if his ark flight takes off it gets taken out by a SAM. Not in a spirit of malice, but because it uses up a SAM which might otherwise have hit a plane full of decent human beings.
    LOL. “Not in a spirit of malice.” As convincing as “I’m not racist but…” and “some of my best friends are black”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,913
    edited August 2021
    England test match team might be struggling for batters, but ODI / T20, so many talented players....Banton, Lammonby and Smeed for Somerset are all excellent prospects.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,518
    stodge said:

    Meanwhile, in Germany, plenty of interest in the national numbers but more useful data may come from the Regional polling. Here's Mecklenburg/Upper Pomerania:

    Changes from 2017 election:

    Social Democrats: 36% (+18.5)
    Alternative for Germany: 17% (-1)
    Christian Democrats: 15% (-19)
    Left: 11% (-7.5)
    Free Democrats: 8% (+3)
    Greens: 6% (+2.5)

    That's an extraordinary swing against the CDU and perhaps suggests the SPD will gain ground in the more industrial areas while the Greens will be the beneficiaries in the more rural areas.

    Not sure that follows. Meck Pomm (a part of the country I know a bit, having lived there for a year) is not very industrial. The only city of any size is Rostock (200k), and it's the least densely populated part of Germany.

    The SPD led state government is popular, as is the SPD state premier Manuela Schwesig. Both also seen as having led well during Covid. It has one of the lowest Covid death rates (74 deaths per 100k), unlike the other new Bundesländer which have the highest in Germany (led by Saxony 250 deaths per 100k). The CDU may be suffering as junior coalition partners, but Merkel started her political career in Meck Pomm and I believe is still the MP for Rügen Greifswald, so the local CDU may also be losing its "Merkel bonus"

    Being part of the former East Germany, the politics are fairly different to the West. It's also very small population wise (1.6 million).

    It's a popular tourist destination for Germans (obviously not as popular as Mallorca) but hardly known internationally. The Hanseatic League cities are well worth visiting. Wismar is a Gothic Brick equivalent to Siena centro storico but without the tourists.
  • DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    I think like JJ my problem with that question would be that I don't identify with any mainstream (or even lunatic fringe) political affiliation.

    But I take PB in all its glorious diversity as my political family so yes there are a number of positions I have stated in the past which, whilst not exactly embarrassing, I generally avoid discussing as they get me into trouble with people on here I like.

    They include:

    - Abolition of whipping in Parliament. Reducing the power of parties to almost zero.
    - Complete freedom of movement and settlement in and out of the country for anyone who wants except for reasons of security/health/crime. By which I mean if you are a non terrorist, non criminal, non infectious person then the state should not be allowed to stop you coming to the UK to live work or anything else within the law.
    - In complete contradiction to what I have just said, a radical reduction in the UK population and stopping all new house building. (I fully recognise these two items - freedom of movement and stopping house building are mutually exclusive)
    - Scepticism of catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming. The reason I don't bang on about this one these days is because I actually like the solutions without agreeing with the problem so it seems petty to argue about it. I do however fear that if I turn out to be right then the damage done to people's faith in science will be truly catastrophic)
    - A desire for the human race to be reduced to perhaps 10% of its current number. But at the same time an abhorrence and rejection of any of the possible ways in which this might happen. Another of those absolute contradictions.
    - A belief that the 'Growth' model of Western economies is fundamentally flawed and should be replaced but without any idea of what could or should replace it.

    Also and finally, the belief that Bing Crosby was perhaps the greatest singer of all time. But I realise some things truly are beyond the pale and can never be discussed in polite society.


  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,002
    I’m presuming that when Biden is asked on Monday about the deaths today of US servicemen and fleeing Afghans he will answer “but that was four, five days ago”......
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,074
    rcs1000 said:

    BREAKING: CDC warns against the off-label use of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 amid reports of severe illnesses

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1430969610845753348?s=20

    You believe the CDC? They're in the pocket of Big Mask for Gods sake.
    For use by only fools and horses.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,115
    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
    Fair enough on Wallace. But I'd still like to see proof that this was actually a decision made and orders given to implement, rather than claims from activists eliciting a cri de coeur from the Defence Secretary.
    I don't think he would've reacted just to random twats.

    I am sincerely hoping that if his ark flight takes off it gets taken out by a SAM. Not in a spirit of malice, but because it uses up a SAM which might otherwise have hit a plane full of decent human beings.
    LOL. “Not in a spirit of malice.” As convincing as “I’m not racist but…” and “some of my best friends are black”
    OK I was lying about that. Nothing gets past you, does it?

    Why the obsession with racism, btw? Something bothering you?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,916
    DougSeal said:

    Question for PBers. Do you have an opinion that would embarrass you in front of the mainstream of the political affiliation you identify with?

    The behaviour of centrists once they depart office (Cameron, Creggan, Osborne, various Blairites) has had enough embarrassment for any self identifying centrist.
    And the worship of the EU as an institution amongst, again, mainly centrist s was embarrassing too both during and after the referendum.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,058
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
    Fair enough on Wallace. But I'd still like to see proof that this was actually a decision made and orders given to implement, rather than claims from activists eliciting a cri de coeur from the Defence Secretary.
    I don't think he would've reacted just to random twats.

    I am sincerely hoping that if his ark flight takes off it gets taken out by a SAM. Not in a spirit of malice, but because it uses up a SAM which might otherwise have hit a plane full of decent human beings.
    LOL. “Not in a spirit of malice.” As convincing as “I’m not racist but…” and “some of my best friends are black”
    OK I was lying about that. Nothing gets past you, does it?

    Why the obsession with racism, btw? Something bothering you?
    Yeah, racism.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,058
    boulay said:

    I’m presuming that when Biden is asked on Monday about the deaths today of US servicemen and fleeing Afghans he will answer “but that was four, five days ago”......

    “Compassion, decency, America’s back etc etc”
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,355
    edited August 2021

    Is America going to lay responsibility for todays dead servicemen at the door of the Biden White House, do we think?

    That question occurred to me. Biden (age 78, mind) seems to be getting flack for just about everything, and deserving none of it.

    Incidentally, if Blair thinks it's imbecilic to follow the agreed deadline, does he not realize that the launch of a single rocket from the shoulder of one battle-hardened Taliban can bring down a plane with 500 people aboard?

    Then too there are the lunatic suicide bombers.
  • boulay said:

    I’m presuming that when Biden is asked on Monday about the deaths today of US servicemen and fleeing Afghans he will answer “but that was four, five days ago”......

    Sadly I am expecting him to claim it is a perfect example of why they had to leave - completely ignoring the fact they have lost more American soldiers in a coupe of weeks of withdrawal than they did in the last 20 months of occupation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,804
    MrEd said:

    boulay said:

    I’m presuming that when Biden is asked on Monday about the deaths today of US servicemen and fleeing Afghans he will answer “but that was four, five days ago”......

    “Compassion, decency, America’s back etc etc”
    If Biden had not withdrawn then US service people would also have been killed.

    Horrible.

    But that is the reality.

    The old irish joke, I wouldn't start from here comes to mind.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,486
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    The claim I questioned was that "johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people".

    Ben Wallace promised 'get to the airport and we will find a slot for your plane', which is entirely different and as far as he could sensibly go - but not a promise as claimed.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,115
    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Though I have always thought Boris Johnson's optimism was a good trait and a votewinner , i am not sure he is wise to say UK evacuations will continue (a lot of other countries have said they will now stop) . Sometimes you can not get everything your way and dont see a need to risk UK servicemen and diplomats in a highly dangerous situation anymore. If Boris insists maybe he needs to go over there

    Have all the rescue dogs got out yet?
    it really is ridiculous how johnson promised to get dogs and cats out before people. All because some Brit in Afgahnistan got some emotion going on Radio 4
    Evidence that such a promise was made?
    There is no evidence.
    Actually there is.

    The defence secretary has complained that British military efforts to evacuate people from Kabul have been "diverted" because of the attempts to rescue animals being cared for by a former British Royal Marine, Sky News has learned.

    Ben Wallace has said he found it "upsetting" that the military had been "diverted from saving .. people" because of "inaccurate stories" about what was happening to the 200 dogs and cats and workers under the care of ex-Marine Paul "Pen" Farthing.


    https://news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-says-british-evacuation-efforts-in-kabul-have-been-diverted-by-bid-to-rescue-animals-cared-for-by-ex-royal-marine-pen-farthing-12390679?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Ben Wallace's twitter thread is quite the cri de cœur.

    https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1430865167471022080

    Then there's this

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz
    'Campaigners claimed that ...' 'Animal rights activist have credited ...' Is this what is counted as evidence in the courts where you practice law? Sounds very much like hearsay, not evidence.
    I think I'd trust the word of the Defence Secretary. His words and inference tell you everything.

    Balance of probabilities and all that jazz.
    Fair enough on Wallace. But I'd still like to see proof that this was actually a decision made and orders given to implement, rather than claims from activists eliciting a cri de coeur from the Defence Secretary.
    I don't think he would've reacted just to random twats.

    I am sincerely hoping that if his ark flight takes off it gets taken out by a SAM. Not in a spirit of malice, but because it uses up a SAM which might otherwise have hit a plane full of decent human beings.
    LOL. “Not in a spirit of malice.” As convincing as “I’m not racist but…” and “some of my best friends are black”
    OK I was lying about that. Nothing gets past you, does it?

    Why the obsession with racism, btw? Something bothering you?
    Yeah, racism.
    I can imagine.

    Try saying "I support Donald Trump, but I am not a racist." Go on, try.
This discussion has been closed.