Latest daily figure for England-only Covid hospital admissions is 832. Not great...
This is not good.
I shall be in Pitcairn by December
Population 47. Unless they are quite extraordinarily interesting, someone who often claims he can find no entertainment on PB is going to go stir crazy on Pitcairn within a week.
Prince Andrew should be asking to be appointed the first resident Governor of Pitcairn. As a "viceroy" he'd have sovereign immunity from investigation etc, communications to Pitcairn are pretty limited so he'd be drop off the radar, and he'd fit right in with the local culture.
On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.
Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
I think May is a tosser and only dipped in and out the debate. But… I don’t think that’s what she and others were suggesting is it? More that there may have been time to build a coalition but that the government didn’t bother asking until it was far too late. Too late even to avert the catastrofuck exit thats unfolding, with thousands of international citizens stranded outside of easy reach of western military assistance.
I don't think there was remotely time to build a coalition for two very good reasons.
After twenty years not a single nation was interested in being in such a coalition.
Biden made this decision unilaterally, without consulting with his partners, removing the option to make planning decisions before it was too late.
Any chance of averting a catastrophic exit would have required Biden to pick up a phone to his partners who had troops in the region before he made the decision, not after it, but even then it probably wasn't possible.
I think the problem was the Biden was scared that if he didn't withdraw from Afghanistan on time, he would face enormous criticism from Trump and American Right.
But...
This is a multi-layered fuck up.
The deal that Trump signed with the Taliban emboldened them, and it also made it clear to the Afghan Government that we weren't prepared to fight for them. Heck - the Afghan Government wasn't even party to the capitulation to the Taliban. Imagine if the US had signed a deal with North Vietnam, that didn't even involve the South?
And Biden (and his advisors) should have read the deal, and recognised the consequences of it. They were in a perfect position to say "sorry, new Government in the US, new rules". They didn't.
Sure, they could, but to what to end? The options facing Biden were stay for many more years or withdraw at some point, knowing it could end up like this. From a political point of view better to get it out of the way early in the electoral cycle, and to credibly share the blame with Trump.
If he had dismantled Trumps deal, signed a new one, and the same thing happened in 2023 instead of 2021 it would be terminal for the Democrats. If he wanted to stay forever against public opinion it was probably do-able but would have been done so half heartedly it would not have left Afghanistan in any better place.
This was undoubtedly a hospital pass from Trump. (I'm not saying it was a deliberate one - I'm sure TRump thought this the right thing to do for its own sake). Possibly the biggest disaster of the Trump presidency. But Biden could have dealt with it, and has utterly failed to do so. Our enemies have been emboldened.
The Taliban were prepared to wait it out 20 years. Would 30 or 50 years have been enough to change things? Did we know how to do so with extra time? If we did, was there the political will to do so in the West?
I think the answers to the above are mostly caveated No's.
Latest daily figure for England-only Covid hospital admissions is 832. Not great...
Given that it’s been acknowledged that a significant number (50%?) of “Covid” hospital admissions are not in fact due to Covid, isn’t rising hospital admissions at least in part clearly linked to rising positive tests? So it’s a link between cases and hospitalisation, but not in a negative way.
No. It's nothing like 50%, more like 10%, although it's not totally clear.
Yes, I made that point earlier. Increased immunity from vaccination and/or infection is acting in almost perfect counterbalance to increased social activity, holding R just above 1.
I find it hard to believe that the Euros could have THAT big an impact, but maybe they did.
If R was just above 1 and it was all Euro-related there'd have been no fall down post-Euros. The Euros would have done a step-change up and then from there cases would have continued to grow.
R dropped to below 1 initially post Euros to reverse the hump.
Yes. And one would expect that Delta is going to act as a Booster shot to lots of vaccinated Brits. So, if R is 1.1 now, then so long as the doubling time is sufficiently elevated, and so long as the vaccines continue to be highly effective at preventing serious infection, then it will be OK.
But it's looking rather less encouraging than it was.
Thank goodness we're not New Zealand or Australia, mind.
Yes, we're looking at around 7-9m people entering the immunity funnel in the next 6-8 weeks and from mid September booster shots for groups 1-6 and then 7-10 in November and early December. That means 49m people will be at little to no risk of getting severe symptoms. The hospital funnel at that point will have just 2.5m potential victims of which we know around 10% will end up going. That's an all time figure for vaccinated people with what feels like an evolutionary cul-de-sac for the virus given how transmissible Delta is.
What I do wonder is when we'll extend vaccines down to 8+ once Pfizer and Moderna get approval next month. It feels like that will be the true end of it.
What's also been interesting is that in advance of 16/17 year olds being made eligible there's still been an uptick in first doses. We've gone from barely more than 150k per week to almost 300k per week and now we're adding a new cohort from Monday. That's surprising and it is definitely coming from the younger cohorts who were at below 60% and are now above 70% with that slow trickle.
I get the feeling the this time they will get overruled by the politicians. We've bought the vaccines and having ~40m doses of Pfizer (and 50m AZ) sitting in fridges while case numbers shoot up will be a tactical and political error.
The JCVI's remit should be expanded to "how the fuck do we as a nation avoid a lockdown" in addition to everything else.
Latest daily figure for England-only Covid hospital admissions is 832. Not great...
Given that it’s been acknowledged that a significant number (50%?) of “Covid” hospital admissions are not in fact due to Covid, isn’t rising hospital admissions at least in part clearly linked to rising positive tests? So it’s a link between cases and hospitalisation, but not in a negative way.
No. It's nothing like 50%, more like 10%, although it's not totally clear.
I think it was 25% the DoH has the full report online somewhere.
‘At about 10am, I decide to go into Kabul after staying at home for three days. With my parent’s permission, I take a taxi. The driver tells me that since the Taliban took over Kabul, the number of their female customers has decreased. “Most of the women and girls who used our services are those who live alone. Since they don’t have a male guardian, now they can’t even leave the house,” he says.’
This does not sound like a revolutionary force with ‘massive support’. The provinces are rebelling, Kabul is sullenly resentful. I wonder how long the Taliban will actually remain in power. Hopefully someone tough will come along soon and slaughter them
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
A lot of things have been the equivalent of Woke for a very long time. For example, BBC TV and radio presentation/continuity have been at present day levels of Wokeness since about 1990. (Not making a partisan point, just an observation).
What about Dave Lee Travis, aka the Hairy Cornflake? He wasn't very woke.
The deal is a quite astonishing document really. The fact that the US signed it without involving the Afghan government is probably the most astonishing thing about it. It was at that point I suspect that a lot of Afghans decided that there was little point fighting since the US had effectively admitted the Taliban were the only players who counted. Entirely rational really on the Afghans' part.
It is absolutely astonishing - basically an act of surrender by the United States, in a war they hadn't lost, in return for very little. The Taliban were however supposed to enter into negotiations with the Afghan government and other unspecified Afghan players, albeit in the vaguest terms:
The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future political roadmap of Afghanistan.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
The death of tourism across the world. I know it’s ‘just tourism’. But it makes me unbearably sad. So much suffering, so many spontaneous human contacts not being made. So many souls not meeting
-Taliban overrun Afghan cities -Probably best don’t go on holiday -I’m going -Taliban advancing on Kabul -I’m still going -Can you make phone call? -No, I’m on holiday -Kabul falls -I’m on way back -Kabul chaos -I didn’t see that coming -Will you resign? -No
Latest daily figure for England-only Covid hospital admissions is 832. Not great...
Given that it’s been acknowledged that a significant number (50%?) of “Covid” hospital admissions are not in fact due to Covid, isn’t rising hospital admissions at least in part clearly linked to rising positive tests? So it’s a link between cases and hospitalisation, but not in a negative way.
No. It's nothing like 50%, more like 10%, although it's not totally clear.
I think it was 25% the DoH has the full report online somewhere.
Yes, but that included admissions for things like stroke which were probably caused by Covid.
The last few days' Cornwall figures are eye-watering.
Yes, I do wonder what's going on there. Lack of natural immunity biting? Could be a preview to what NZ and Australia face but they will have it an order of magnitude worse.
On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.
Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
I think May is a tosser and only dipped in and out the debate. But… I don’t think that’s what she and others were suggesting is it? More that there may have been time to build a coalition but that the government didn’t bother asking until it was far too late. Too late even to avert the catastrofuck exit thats unfolding, with thousands of international citizens stranded outside of easy reach of western military assistance.
I don't think there was remotely time to build a coalition for two very good reasons.
After twenty years not a single nation was interested in being in such a coalition.
Biden made this decision unilaterally, without consulting with his partners, removing the option to make planning decisions before it was too late.
Any chance of averting a catastrophic exit would have required Biden to pick up a phone to his partners who had troops in the region before he made the decision, not after it, but even then it probably wasn't possible.
I think the problem was the Biden was scared that if he didn't withdraw from Afghanistan on time, he would face enormous criticism from Trump and American Right.
But...
This is a multi-layered fuck up.
The deal that Trump signed with the Taliban emboldened them, and it also made it clear to the Afghan Government that we weren't prepared to fight for them. Heck - the Afghan Government wasn't even party to the capitulation to the Taliban. Imagine if the US had signed a deal with North Vietnam, that didn't even involve the South?
And Biden (and his advisors) should have read the deal, and recognised the consequences of it. They were in a perfect position to say "sorry, new Government in the US, new rules". They didn't.
Sure, they could, but to what to end? The options facing Biden were stay for many more years or withdraw at some point, knowing it could end up like this. From a political point of view better to get it out of the way early in the electoral cycle, and to credibly share the blame with Trump.
If he had dismantled Trumps deal, signed a new one, and the same thing happened in 2023 instead of 2021 it would be terminal for the Democrats. If he wanted to stay forever against public opinion it was probably do-able but would have been done so half heartedly it would not have left Afghanistan in any better place.
This was undoubtedly a hospital pass from Trump. (I'm not saying it was a deliberate one - I'm sure TRump thought this the right thing to do for its own sake). Possibly the biggest disaster of the Trump presidency. But Biden could have dealt with it, and has utterly failed to do so. Our enemies have been emboldened.
The Taliban were prepared to wait it out 20 years. Would 30 or 50 years have been enough to change things? Did we know how to do so with extra time? If we did, was there the political will to do so in the West?
I think the answers to the above are mostly caveated No's.
The withdrawal process could have been handled a hell of a lot better.
‘At about 10am, I decide to go into Kabul after staying at home for three days. With my parent’s permission, I take a taxi. The driver tells me that since the Taliban took over Kabul, the number of their female customers has decreased. “Most of the women and girls who used our services are those who live alone. Since they don’t have a male guardian, now they can’t even leave the house,” he says.’
This does not sound like a revolutionary force with ‘massive support’. The provinces are rebelling, Kabul is sullenly resentful. I wonder how long the Taliban will actually remain in power. Hopefully someone tough will come along soon and slaughter them
According to the Chief of the Défense Staff they are just misunderstood country boys with a moral code. No need to worry, why is everybody panicking?
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
Please provide your definition.
I believe the correct definition is that someone is 'Woke' if they believe @Foxy's definition of 'Woke' is right.
On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.
Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
I think May is a tosser and only dipped in and out the debate. But… I don’t think that’s what she and others were suggesting is it? More that there may have been time to build a coalition but that the government didn’t bother asking until it was far too late. Too late even to avert the catastrofuck exit thats unfolding, with thousands of international citizens stranded outside of easy reach of western military assistance.
I don't think there was remotely time to build a coalition for two very good reasons.
After twenty years not a single nation was interested in being in such a coalition.
Biden made this decision unilaterally, without consulting with his partners, removing the option to make planning decisions before it was too late.
Any chance of averting a catastrophic exit would have required Biden to pick up a phone to his partners who had troops in the region before he made the decision, not after it, but even then it probably wasn't possible.
I think the problem was the Biden was scared that if he didn't withdraw from Afghanistan on time, he would face enormous criticism from Trump and American Right.
But...
This is a multi-layered fuck up.
The deal that Trump signed with the Taliban emboldened them, and it also made it clear to the Afghan Government that we weren't prepared to fight for them. Heck - the Afghan Government wasn't even party to the capitulation to the Taliban. Imagine if the US had signed a deal with North Vietnam, that didn't even involve the South?
And Biden (and his advisors) should have read the deal, and recognised the consequences of it. They were in a perfect position to say "sorry, new Government in the US, new rules". They didn't.
Sure, they could, but to what to end? The options facing Biden were stay for many more years or withdraw at some point, knowing it could end up like this. From a political point of view better to get it out of the way early in the electoral cycle, and to credibly share the blame with Trump.
If he had dismantled Trumps deal, signed a new one, and the same thing happened in 2023 instead of 2021 it would be terminal for the Democrats. If he wanted to stay forever against public opinion it was probably do-able but would have been done so half heartedly it would not have left Afghanistan in any better place.
This was undoubtedly a hospital pass from Trump. (I'm not saying it was a deliberate one - I'm sure TRump thought this the right thing to do for its own sake). Possibly the biggest disaster of the Trump presidency. But Biden could have dealt with it, and has utterly failed to do so. Our enemies have been emboldened.
The Taliban were prepared to wait it out 20 years. Would 30 or 50 years have been enough to change things? Did we know how to do so with extra time? If we did, was there the political will to do so in the West?
I think the answers to the above are mostly caveated No's.
The withdrawal process could have been handled a hell of a lot better.
Definitely it could have been handled better, probably significantly impacted tens of thousands of lives better. But the end result impacting on tens of millions of lives would have been broadly the same, the Afghan govt we had created would fall without US military backing on the ground.
‘At about 10am, I decide to go into Kabul after staying at home for three days. With my parent’s permission, I take a taxi. The driver tells me that since the Taliban took over Kabul, the number of their female customers has decreased. “Most of the women and girls who used our services are those who live alone. Since they don’t have a male guardian, now they can’t even leave the house,” he says.’
This does not sound like a revolutionary force with ‘massive support’. The provinces are rebelling, Kabul is sullenly resentful. I wonder how long the Taliban will actually remain in power. Hopefully someone tough will come along soon and slaughter them
According to the Chief of the Défense Staff they are just misunderstood country boys with a moral code. No need to worry, why is everybody panicking?
I saw that. One of the most astonishingly stupid, naive remarks I have ever heard from a senior British official. My explanation is that he is so ashamed of the failure he’s convinced himself of this nonsense to save himself the mental pain of abject defeat
The same might apply to Biden. Hence his surreal assertions that the withdrawal ‘could not have been done any other way’, and the men falling off planes is irrelevant because it was ‘four days ago! No, five!’
I think the problem was the Biden was scared that if he didn't withdraw from Afghanistan on time, he would face enormous criticism from Trump and American Right.
But...
This is a multi-layered fuck up.
The deal that Trump signed with the Taliban emboldened them, and it also made it clear to the Afghan Government that we weren't prepared to fight for them. Heck - the Afghan Government wasn't even party to the capitulation to the Taliban. Imagine if the US had signed a deal with North Vietnam, that didn't even involve the South?
And Biden (and his advisors) should have read the deal, and recognised the consequences of it. They were in a perfect position to say "sorry, new Government in the US, new rules". They didn't.
Or they could have just pointed out that the Taliban hadn't met their obligations, and that any case the agreement was total nonsense because it required the Afghan government (not a signatory!) to do things it quite reasonably wasn't going to do.
Ummm: I thought pretty much the only obligation on the Taliban was that they wouldn't use Afghanistan to host groups that would attack America.
The deal is a quite astonishing document really. The fact that the US signed it without involving the Afghan government is probably the most astonishing thing about it. It was at that point I suspect that a lot of Afghans decided that there was little point fighting since the US had effectively admitted the Taliban were the only players who counted. Entirely rational really on the Afghans' part.
Joe Biden wasn't astonished though Cyclefree.
he told the press a month ago the Afghan government could hold out for a year or more under the terms of the deal. Trump's deal.
Which is what the US intelligence agencies believed.
Did they ?
There seems to have been a persistent pattern, similar to Vietnam, of those on the ground reporting problems being ignored by their senior commanders. I suspect the official intelligence assessments were similarly Panglossian.
Several of those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case.
“Every data point was altered to present the best picture possible,” Bob Crowley, an Army colonel who served as a senior counterinsurgency adviser to U.S. military commanders in 2013 and 2014, told government interviewers. “Surveys, for instance, were totally unreliable but reinforced that everything we were doing was right and we became a self-licking ice cream cone.”
John Sopko, the head of the federal agency that conducted the interviews, acknowledged to The Post that the documents show “the American people have constantly been lied to.”...
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
Hm. I think one of the reasons I am so averse to woke is that I have so, so rarely come across situations in which woke might be called for. In my whole adult life, I can count on the fingers of one hand people like the above who have treated women and/or minorities like that. It's not that I'm blind to it - on the few occasions in which I've seen it it's grated horribly. But I just don't see this ocean of racism and sexism which woke is supposed to solve. Perhaps it is because I only hang around with nice people.
Well you probably do gravitate to nice people, given you seem nice. Woke has 2 aspects, though, rather in the same way that Financial Regulation does. There's the Behavioural aspect (the FCA) and the Structural one (the PRA). FCA woke is about stamping out overt racist and sexist behaviour by individuals. PRA woke is about improving the overall integrity and quality of the system, ie addressing and seeking to correct the inherent biases and assumptions in favour of whiteness and maleness which shape our society.
-Taliban overrun Afghan cities -Probably best don’t go on holiday -I’m going -Taliban advancing on Kabul -I’m still going -Can you make phone call? -No, I’m on holiday -Kabul falls -I’m on way back -Kabul chaos -I didn’t see that coming -Will you resign? -No
I think the problem was the Biden was scared that if he didn't withdraw from Afghanistan on time, he would face enormous criticism from Trump and American Right.
But...
This is a multi-layered fuck up.
The deal that Trump signed with the Taliban emboldened them, and it also made it clear to the Afghan Government that we weren't prepared to fight for them. Heck - the Afghan Government wasn't even party to the capitulation to the Taliban. Imagine if the US had signed a deal with North Vietnam, that didn't even involve the South?
And Biden (and his advisors) should have read the deal, and recognised the consequences of it. They were in a perfect position to say "sorry, new Government in the US, new rules". They didn't.
Or they could have just pointed out that the Taliban hadn't met their obligations, and that any case the agreement was total nonsense because it required the Afghan government (not a signatory!) to do things it quite reasonably wasn't going to do.
Ummm: I thought pretty much the only obligation on the Taliban was that they wouldn't use Afghanistan to host groups that would attack America.
I think they were also meant to negotiate with the Afghan government. But, you're right, it's a quite extraordinary agreement,
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
Please provide your definition.
I believe the correct definition is that someone is 'Woke' if they believe @Foxy's definition of 'Woke' is right.
Yes, there is something to that.
People who see some imaginary liberal conspiracy to destroy western culture do use the term "Woke" quite widely and pejoratively, in order to suppress and marginalise views that they do not want to hear.
The graph is looking increasingly like a steady rise from mid-June, overlaid by a big football-related spike. Increasing freedom and activity being countered almost exactly by increasing numbers vaccinated and/or infected. R therefore holding steady at just over 1.
Which I'm struggling to believe, frankly. The Euros maybe had an impact, but surely not THAT big an impact. Still, that's what it looks like.
The first rule of analysising covid numbers is that Alistair is always right.
Unusually, in this case you are wrong, for the reasons @Philip_Thompson explains.
The second rule is that if it appears the first rule has been violated then reality is wrong.
Specifically in this case the "football wave" is its own seperate population, it is not extra R on top of the "natural" wave.
It was created by a specific set of people people ramming pubs in a way they were not otherwise doing. Once the Euros stopped the population stopped mixing as it had so the football R plummeted.
I am not sure that there is much evidence to support the contention that losing Cabinet ministers makes you stronger. Was May stronger after Boris quit? I would say quite the opposite.
The problem with sacrificial lambs is that people acquire a taste for them and all too soon want to move on to mutton. I think Boris will resist because he does not like to be bullied and this feels a bit like bullying. It is obvious that Raab and Boris himself have been dumped on here by the senile fool that currently inhabits the Whitehouse. Yes, they could have been cuter and being in Crete wasn't smart but is the FS really supposed to be on duty 52 weeks a year just in case?
No wonder only buffoons and idiots want to go into politics these days.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
Please provide your definition.
After 2 minutes googling: Wikipedia: Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is a term, originating in the United States, that originally referred to awareness about racial prejudice and discrimination. It subsequently came to encompass an awareness of other issues of social inequality, for instance, regarding gender and sexual orientation. Since the late 2010s, it has also been used as a general term for left-wing political movements and perspectives emphasising the identity politics of people of colour, LGBT people, and women.
One Urban Dictionary contributor defines woke as “being aware of the truth behind things 'the man' doesn't want you to know”. Meanwhile, a concurrent definition signals a shift in meaning to “the act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue”.8 Sept 2019
Lots of takes out there, it is a word whose meaning is shifting. A meaningful discussion on associated issues would probably best avoid it and be precise and specific.
‘At about 10am, I decide to go into Kabul after staying at home for three days. With my parent’s permission, I take a taxi. The driver tells me that since the Taliban took over Kabul, the number of their female customers has decreased. “Most of the women and girls who used our services are those who live alone. Since they don’t have a male guardian, now they can’t even leave the house,” he says.’
This does not sound like a revolutionary force with ‘massive support’. The provinces are rebelling, Kabul is sullenly resentful. I wonder how long the Taliban will actually remain in power. Hopefully someone tough will come along soon and slaughter them
According to the Chief of the Défense Staff they are just misunderstood country boys with a moral code. No need to worry, why is everybody panicking?
I'm pretty sure I heard him in an interview this week claiming that there was no way that the collapse could have been predicted - and later in the same interview that it was utterly predictable.
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
Hm. I think one of the reasons I am so averse to woke is that I have so, so rarely come across situations in which woke might be called for. In my whole adult life, I can count on the fingers of one hand people like the above who have treated women and/or minorities like that. It's not that I'm blind to it - on the few occasions in which I've seen it it's grated horribly. But I just don't see this ocean of racism and sexism which woke is supposed to solve. Perhaps it is because I only hang around with nice people.
I started my career in the 00's and came across pretty bad sexism in a medium sized extremely successful private sector firm. It was just continuous derogatory comments by men about women, typically about their appearance, and not taking them seriously. The women they generally hired were young (ie after university, pre marriage and childbirth) and very attractive, and there was a degree of expectation that they would use this to their advantage in the organisation and their dealings with external clients. The women they hired never seriously tackled the men on this outrageous and blatant sexism, they seemed happy to effectively play the game, obtaining large pay rises and massive pay offs to avoid going to an employment tribunal. In one particularly memorable case a girl was told to use her massive bonus to get a boob job. She did not get a boob job but used the money for a deposit on a flat and still works for the company.
The other thing which is stunning about the Doha Agreement is that it purports to commit the allies and coalition partners of the US to abandoning the Afghans, but they weren't signatories and don't even seem to have been properly consulted.
Yes, I made that point earlier. Increased immunity from vaccination and/or infection is acting in almost perfect counterbalance to increased social activity, holding R just above 1.
I find it hard to believe that the Euros could have THAT big an impact, but maybe they did.
If R was just above 1 and it was all Euro-related there'd have been no fall down post-Euros. The Euros would have done a step-change up and then from there cases would have continued to grow.
R dropped to below 1 initially post Euros to reverse the hump.
Yes. And one would expect that Delta is going to act as a Booster shot to lots of vaccinated Brits. So, if R is 1.1 now, then so long as the doubling time is sufficiently elevated, and so long as the vaccines continue to be highly effective at preventing serious infection, then it will be OK.
But it's looking rather less encouraging than it was.
Thank goodness we're not New Zealand or Australia, mind.
I know quite a few people who have had Delta boosters. Really random how it impacts though. I know of several families who got it.
Family 1 Mother (double-jabbed) and 2 kids got it. All of them were knocked for 6 and in bed with bad tiredness but were fine after a few days. The Dad (double jabbed) and other child didn't even get it.
Family 2 2 children got it (out of 3) both with fairly mild symptoms. Both double-jabbed parents avoided getting it along with the youngest child.
Family 3 Teenager daughter got Covid in last week of school. Did not give to either parent (double-jabbed with Moderna) or their 12yo brother.
Also my 3 kids came into close contact with the kids of Family 2 on the day they were diagnosed with Covid. None of mine (ages 3 to 12) got anything and we tested daily for the week after the contact.
I'd really like to understand why some close contacts of Delta get it and some don't. It seems to be quite random but it can't be.
To add anecdata, my b-i-l in Las Vegas currently has a breakthrough infection and he got his vax very early on, in January, as he's front-line health care staff (ER doc), so if Pfizer does wane after about eight months, he's right on that timescale. The good news is that he's only been mildly symptomatic; bad cold level of ill effects, and is recovering well, and no-one else in the family has been infected.
The graph is looking increasingly like a steady rise from mid-June, overlaid by a big football-related spike. Increasing freedom and activity being countered almost exactly by increasing numbers vaccinated and/or infected. R therefore holding steady at just over 1.
Which I'm struggling to believe, frankly. The Euros maybe had an impact, but surely not THAT big an impact. Still, that's what it looks like.
The first rule of analysising covid numbers is that Alistair is always right.
Unusually, in this case you are wrong, for the reasons @Philip_Thompson explains.
The second rule is that if it appears the first rule has been violated then reality is wrong.
Specifically in this case the "football wave" is its own seperate population, it is not extra R on top of the "natural" wave.
It was created by a specific set of people people ramming pubs in a way they were not otherwise doing. Once the Euros stopped the population stopped mixing as it had so the football R plummeted.
Yes, I think it's just a distortion because cases only show you a snapshot in time, whereas to know the true R value, you need to be able to model the complete infection chains. The "football wave" just accelerated the process for a subset of the population.
Roll out a third jab - of a different type to the first jab for people (Novavax would be a good candidate) to give at the same time as the flu jab.
Send AZ and Pfizer and Moderna (after our first dose capacity is reached) out through covax to help vaccinate the world.
Offer jabs to all over-12s if wanted.
Ramp up hospital capacity and number of staff. It will take time (literally years), so we're doing it for the next pandemic.
We don't want to be caught on the hop again. And with climate change and biodiversity decrease and us as a species pushing further into other species territories and reducing their living space, we're going to see an increased rate of zoonotic transfer of viruses (if I understand correctly).
So we've got to bite the bullet and increase capacity.
The capacity of various vaccine production centres around the world in in the billions of doses per year and increasing.
60 million doses is a fart in a thunderstorm to what the Serum Institute in India will be churning out this year, for example.
The VMIC at Harwell will have a capacity of around 150-200 million doses a year, coming on stream this year / 2022. That is on top of all the others.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
Please provide your definition.
I believe the correct definition is that someone is 'Woke' if they believe @Foxy's definition of 'Woke' is right.
Yes, there is something to that.
People who see some imaginary liberal conspiracy to destroy western culture do use the term "Woke" quite widely and pejoratively, in order to suppress and marginalise views that they do not want to hear.
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their fingers and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
The other thing which is stunning about the Doha Agreement is that it purports to commit the allies and coalition partners of the US to abandoning the Afghans, but they weren't signatories and don't even seem to have been properly consulted.
It is a truly astonishing document. Given its terms Ghani's plans to be on the first plane out were no more than common sense.
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their finger and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Paraphrasing Theresa May: "What does it say about us if Boris Johnson is Prime Minister and not me?"
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
Former MP Jared O’Mara has been charged with seven counts of fraud by false representation, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has said.
In a statement, Rosemary Ainslie, head of special crime at the CPS, said: “The charges relates to an allegation he made fraudulent invoices to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in 2019 jointly with Gareth Arnold, who is also charged with six counts of the same offence.
“Jared O’Mara is charged jointly with John Woodliff with a Proceeds of Crime Act offence. The CPS made the decision that the three men should be charged after reviewing a file of evidence from South Yorkshire police.”
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their fingers and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Yeah, the reality is that the UK didn't have any room to do anything much. This is a Biden disaster, following on from the Trump surrender.
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their fingers and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Yeah, the reality is that the UK didn't have any room to do anything much. This is a Biden disaster, following on from the Trump surrender.
There seems to be an unwillingness for MPs to admit that we were never going to go it alone.
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their fingers and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Yeah, the reality is that the UK didn't have any room to do anything much. This is a Biden disaster, following on from the Trump surrender.
There seems to be an unwillingness for MPs to admit that we were never going to go it alone.
Well, there was a bit of fantasy alternative coalition-building, but I can't see that as being at all realistic.
On the other hand, I think it is fair to blame the government for being lazy and unprepared for the mechanics of withdrawal - we should, for example, have got UK citizens and our Afghan interpreters out in a more measured way.
Former MP Jared O’Mara has been charged with seven counts of fraud by false representation, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has said.
In a statement, Rosemary Ainslie, head of special crime at the CPS, said: “The charges relates to an allegation he made fraudulent invoices to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in 2019 jointly with Gareth Arnold, who is also charged with six counts of the same offence.
“Jared O’Mara is charged jointly with John Woodliff with a Proceeds of Crime Act offence. The CPS made the decision that the three men should be charged after reviewing a file of evidence from South Yorkshire police.”
I remember watching his rambling victory speech on election night in 2017 - the contrast with Nick Clegg's statesman like departure. It seemed to reveal an old world that was passing, and a nightmare of a future; which quickly came to fruition.
The other thing which is stunning about the Doha Agreement is that it purports to commit the allies and coalition partners of the US to abandoning the Afghans, but they weren't signatories and don't even seem to have been properly consulted.
It is a truly astonishing document. Given its terms Ghani's plans to be on the first plane out were no more than common sense.
What's astonishing is that it was signed and published over a year ago, and we're only just getting round to being astonished by it.
-Taliban overrun Afghan cities -Probably best don’t go on holiday -I’m going -Taliban advancing on Kabul -I’m still going -Can you make phone call? -No, I’m on holiday -Kabul falls -I’m on way back -Kabul chaos -I didn’t see that coming -Will you resign? -No
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
America has not pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
-Taliban overrun Afghan cities -Probably best don’t go on holiday -I’m going -Taliban advancing on Kabul -I’m still going -Can you make phone call? -No, I’m on holiday -Kabul falls -I’m on way back -Kabul chaos -I didn’t see that coming -Will you resign? -No
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
The use of the word (nearly always in a hostile way) is too fluid to make it useful - it's become something of a straw man like "capitalist", "red", "imperialist" and others to cover a multitude of perceived sins. since almost nobody agrees that they're woke it's a bit of a waste of time.
I do think that attitudes to what's acceptable behaviour towards other groups has become much more careful, on the whole in a helpful way. There have always been people who will cheerfully shrug off any amount of snarkiness/patronising/exploitation and come out successfully, but there must have been an awful lot of people who suffered quietly in silence. I cringe to think of some of the things I did and said myself 40 years ago - nobody reprimanded me, but I do recall noticing that the people I was joking about looked less amused than I expected. It wasn't ill-intended, but I like to think I've learned to be more considerate, and so have most of us.
Regarding the “disentangling” of covid hospitalisations that Foxy questions.
If a covid-positive bloke is in hospital with whiplash, he shouldn’t be down as a covid hospitalisation! Full stop.
Arguing that his having covid might have caused him to drive his Audi TT into a bollard at high speed is ridiculous.
What about if he caught covid from the rescuers or ambulance staff, or in the waiting area in ED?
If he's not ill enough to be hospitalised with Covid under normal circumstances, then IMV it doesn't really count. He might just have a sniffle, or not even that if he was randomly tested by hospital or family.
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
America has not pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
Where did I say they were less interested? I said they were obsessed with invented trivia (nonsense about pronouns etc), and profoundly uninterested in real oppression. You're not seriously going to disagree with this, are you?
Nor did I say that America pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home. You're inventing straw men.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
Please provide your definition.
I believe the correct definition is that someone is 'Woke' if they believe @Foxy's definition of 'Woke' is right.
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
America has not pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
People often have different takes on the meaning of words so it is often a good idea to agree the meaning of a shared vocabulary when discussing contentious topics. It is clear to me that as the word Woke is actually widely used that definition is inaccurate.
Please provide your definition.
After 2 minutes googling: Wikipedia: Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is a term, originating in the United States, that originally referred to awareness about racial prejudice and discrimination. It subsequently came to encompass an awareness of other issues of social inequality, for instance, regarding gender and sexual orientation. Since the late 2010s, it has also been used as a general term for left-wing political movements and perspectives emphasising the identity politics of people of colour, LGBT people, and women.
One Urban Dictionary contributor defines woke as “being aware of the truth behind things 'the man' doesn't want you to know”. Meanwhile, a concurrent definition signals a shift in meaning to “the act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue”.8 Sept 2019
Lots of takes out there, it is a word whose meaning is shifting. A meaningful discussion on associated issues would probably best avoid it and be precise and specific.
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
Hm. I think one of the reasons I am so averse to woke is that I have so, so rarely come across situations in which woke might be called for. In my whole adult life, I can count on the fingers of one hand people like the above who have treated women and/or minorities like that. It's not that I'm blind to it - on the few occasions in which I've seen it it's grated horribly. But I just don't see this ocean of racism and sexism which woke is supposed to solve. Perhaps it is because I only hang around with nice people.
I started my career in the 00's and came across pretty bad sexism in a medium sized extremely successful private sector firm. It was just continuous derogatory comments by men about women, typically about their appearance, and not taking them seriously. The women they generally hired were young (ie after university, pre marriage and childbirth) and very attractive, and there was a degree of expectation that they would use this to their advantage in the organisation and their dealings with external clients. The women they hired never seriously tackled the men on this outrageous and blatant sexism, they seemed happy to effectively play the game, obtaining large pay rises and massive pay offs to avoid going to an employment tribunal. In one particularly memorable case a girl was told to use her massive bonus to get a boob job. She did not get a boob job but used the money for a deposit on a flat and still works for the company.
That's a good example of the patriarchy in action. Female power derived from and beholden unto men - ie essentially illusory.
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
America has not pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
Where did I say they were less interested? I said they were obsessed with invented trivia (nonsense about pronouns etc), and profoundly uninterested in real oppression. You're not seriously going to disagree with this, are you?
Nor did I say that America pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home. You're inventing straw men.
He can’t disagree with you, because what you say is painfully and obviously true, but he can’t admit you’re right, because it’s a religion with him, so he invents not just a straw man, but a total Worzel fucking Gummage of gibberish
@kinabalu is intrinsically risible. I’d miss his lunacies if he ever actually opened his mind and raised his IQ over 100.04
Regarding the “disentangling” of covid hospitalisations that Foxy questions.
If a covid-positive bloke is in hospital with whiplash, he shouldn’t be down as a covid hospitalisation! Full stop.
Arguing that his having covid might have caused him to drive his Audi TT into a bollard at high speed is ridiculous.
What about if he caught covid from the rescuers or ambulance staff, or in the waiting area in ED?
That would be even more ludicrous that his hospitalisation be counted on the covid tally! (Is it? Surely not?)
Yes, it would be a case of hospital acquired covid, but not a covid hospitalisation (unless they subsequently need treatment for covid).
In many cases diagnosed after admission it is unclear what the source was. Did they have it already or did they catch it in hospital? is not the straightforward question some might imagine it is.
Pretty disgraceful that the BBC are politicising the death of the boy in Sheffield. I’d have thought it would be a case for the local HSE irrespective of who died.
The BBC made it sound like it wouldn’t have been a problem if it had been a British child that had died.
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
America has not pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
Where did I say they were less interested? I said they were obsessed with invented trivia (nonsense about pronouns etc), and profoundly uninterested in real oppression. You're not seriously going to disagree with this, are you?
Nor did I say that America pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home. You're inventing straw men.
Liberals are more interested than trad or MAGA conservatives in both 1st world discrimination against people and 3rd world oppression of people.
Conservatives only interest in any of this is to whinge about the so-called 'hypocrisy' of liberals. This is their passion.
Ah. My last evening in Athens. I shall miss these Kolonaki nights. I’ve moved on from the bar with Unbelievably Hot Bargirl to the “Italian gastropub” full of 30-something posh Greek women with a bit too much make-up and eye-poppingly large breasts
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
The use of the word (nearly always in a hostile way) is too fluid to make it useful - it's become something of a straw man like "capitalist", "red", "imperialist" and others to cover a multitude of perceived sins. since almost nobody agrees that they're woke it's a bit of a waste of time.
I do think that attitudes to what's acceptable behaviour towards other groups has become much more careful, on the whole in a helpful way. There have always been people who will cheerfully shrug off any amount of snarkiness/patronising/exploitation and come out successfully, but there must have been an awful lot of people who suffered quietly in silence. I cringe to think of some of the things I did and said myself 40 years ago - nobody reprimanded me, but I do recall noticing that the people I was joking about looked less amused than I expected. It wasn't ill-intended, but I like to think I've learned to be more considerate, and so have most of us.
Clearly wrong. Being called “Woke” genuinely annoys quite a lot of “Woke” people so it is at least useful as an insult. I’ve seen them get angry. Which also means there must be some *truth* in it as a pejorative
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their fingers and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Yeah, the reality is that the UK didn't have any room to do anything much. This is a Biden disaster, following on from the Trump surrender.
What the UK should/could have done is influence the US. Remember George Bush Snr and Margaret Thatcher over Gulf War one? The big problem is Biden thinks our PM is a first rate cretin and on that subject he is completely right. Biden has been completely wrong headed on Afghanistan on the other hand. It is an absolute outrage, and a great sadness that we have an clown of a PM who was unable to make him see sense.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
In your opinion. To many of us it doesn't mean the same thing.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
The use of the word (nearly always in a hostile way) is too fluid to make it useful - it's become something of a straw man like "capitalist", "red", "imperialist" and others to cover a multitude of perceived sins. since almost nobody agrees that they're woke it's a bit of a waste of time.
I do think that attitudes to what's acceptable behaviour towards other groups has become much more careful, on the whole in a helpful way. There have always been people who will cheerfully shrug off any amount of snarkiness/patronising/exploitation and come out successfully, but there must have been an awful lot of people who suffered quietly in silence. I cringe to think of some of the things I did and said myself 40 years ago - nobody reprimanded me, but I do recall noticing that the people I was joking about looked less amused than I expected. It wasn't ill-intended, but I like to think I've learned to be more considerate, and so have most of us.
Clearly wrong. Being called “Woke” genuinely annoys quite a lot of “Woke” people so it is at least useful as an insult. I’ve seen them get angry. Which also means there must be some *truth* in it as a pejorative
Is it similar to how you feel when you are called a gammon?
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
Hm. I think one of the reasons I am so averse to woke is that I have so, so rarely come across situations in which woke might be called for. In my whole adult life, I can count on the fingers of one hand people like the above who have treated women and/or minorities like that. It's not that I'm blind to it - on the few occasions in which I've seen it it's grated horribly. But I just don't see this ocean of racism and sexism which woke is supposed to solve. Perhaps it is because I only hang around with nice people.
I started my career in the 00's and came across pretty bad sexism in a medium sized extremely successful private sector firm. It was just continuous derogatory comments by men about women, typically about their appearance, and not taking them seriously. The women they generally hired were young (ie after university, pre marriage and childbirth) and very attractive, and there was a degree of expectation that they would use this to their advantage in the organisation and their dealings with external clients. The women they hired never seriously tackled the men on this outrageous and blatant sexism, they seemed happy to effectively play the game, obtaining large pay rises and massive pay offs to avoid going to an employment tribunal. In one particularly memorable case a girl was told to use her massive bonus to get a boob job. She did not get a boob job but used the money for a deposit on a flat and still works for the company.
That's a good example of the patriarchy in action. Female power derived from and beholden unto men - ie essentially illusory.
BUT - the women could just leave and go and work for another firm - there were other firms in the industry that were run by women and employed almost entirely women. I am convinced that the whole thing was a voluntary arrangement. (I got out of it myself pretty quickly)
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their fingers and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Yeah, the reality is that the UK didn't have any room to do anything much. This is a Biden disaster, following on from the Trump surrender.
What the UK should/could have done is influence the US. Remember George Bush Snr and Margaret Thatcher over Gulf War one? The big problem is Biden thinks our PM is a first rate cretin and on that subject he is completely right. Biden has been completely wrong headed on Afghanistan on the other hand. It is an absolute outrage, and a great sadness that we have an clown of a PM who was unable to make him see sense.
A genuine question
Do you really think that any UK PM could have done anything to stop Biden's action who was enacting Trump's policy
It’s stretching logic to breaking point to argue that someone with a fracture/whiplash is a COVID hospitalisation. It might not be completely straightforward, but it’s rather more straightforward than our resident doctor is presenting it!
They sure do. And it leads to some bizarre takes. Eg that America is pulling out of Afghanistan because woke liberals are obsessed with personal pronouns and don't give a shit about women being oppressed under Islam.
There's nothing bizarre about pointing out the howling disconnect between the 'woke' liberals' obsession with invented trivia and their profound uninterest in the reality of what oppression of women really comprises.
America has not pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
Where did I say they were less interested? I said they were obsessed with invented trivia (nonsense about pronouns etc), and profoundly uninterested in real oppression. You're not seriously going to disagree with this, are you?
Nor did I say that America pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home. You're inventing straw men.
He can’t disagree with you, because what you say is painfully and obviously true, but he can’t admit you’re right, because it’s a religion with him, so he invents not just a straw man, but a total Worzel fucking Gummage of gibberish
@kinabalu is intrinsically risible. I’d miss his lunacies if he ever actually opened his mind and raised his IQ over 100.04
Or does the laugh-a-minute lunacy come more from the unHerd drivel pipe that thinks the moral fibre of the West is being sapped by "wokeness" such that it can no longer stand up and fight the enemy like a MAN?
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
A lot of things have been the equivalent of Woke for a very long time. For example, BBC TV and radio presentation/continuity have been at present day levels of Wokeness since about 1990. (Not making a partisan point, just an observation).
What about Dave Lee Travis, aka the Hairy Cornflake? He wasn't very woke.
DLT resigned from Radio 1 in 1993 when Matthew Bannister was purging old people.
Pretty disgraceful that the BBC are politicising the death of the boy in Sheffield. I’d have thought it would be a case for the local HSE irrespective of who died.
The BBC made it sound like it wouldn’t have been a problem if it had been a British child that had died.
Former MP Jared O’Mara has been charged with seven counts of fraud by false representation, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has said.
In a statement, Rosemary Ainslie, head of special crime at the CPS, said: “The charges relates to an allegation he made fraudulent invoices to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in 2019 jointly with Gareth Arnold, who is also charged with six counts of the same offence.
“Jared O’Mara is charged jointly with John Woodliff with a Proceeds of Crime Act offence. The CPS made the decision that the three men should be charged after reviewing a file of evidence from South Yorkshire police.”
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
Woke means awake to racism in society. The terms are interchangeable.
In your opinion. To many of us it doesn't mean the same thing.
I think the definition has broadened to include recognition of other injustices in society besides racism.
What other definition do you use?
I note that so called "anti-Woke" posters are very reluctant to provide the definition that they use.
It may well be that it means some dark and brooding bogeyman to them, but it really is hard to understand what they mean.
With respect to Woke and anti-Woke terminology matters. It isn't helpful to use Woke interchangeably with anti-racism. For most people Woke (pro and anti) describes a distinct set of political and philosophical attitudes.
The use of the word (nearly always in a hostile way) is too fluid to make it useful - it's become something of a straw man like "capitalist", "red", "imperialist" and others to cover a multitude of perceived sins. since almost nobody agrees that they're woke it's a bit of a waste of time.
I do think that attitudes to what's acceptable behaviour towards other groups has become much more careful, on the whole in a helpful way. There have always been people who will cheerfully shrug off any amount of snarkiness/patronising/exploitation and come out successfully, but there must have been an awful lot of people who suffered quietly in silence. I cringe to think of some of the things I did and said myself 40 years ago - nobody reprimanded me, but I do recall noticing that the people I was joking about looked less amused than I expected. It wasn't ill-intended, but I like to think I've learned to be more considerate, and so have most of us.
Clearly wrong. Being called “Woke” genuinely annoys quite a lot of “Woke” people so it is at least useful as an insult. I’ve seen them get angry. Which also means there must be some *truth* in it as a pejorative
Is it similar to how you feel when you are called a gammon?
I actually considered making the same comparison. I’m not remotely offended by being called gammon, because I don’t give a fuck about anything, apart from drink and sex and offensively singing Futurist slogans in Corsican forests, but I DO know people who are offended by the word “gammon”, and truth be told, they are “gammon” - middle aged men with quite ruddy faces who have UKIPpy views
Just as people called Woke are, very often, genuinely Woke, boring, annoying and wanky. Eg Kinabalu
Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.
"Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."
Fiona picks up. "Yep."
"Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."
"I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."
She hangs up and calls HR.
I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
Yep, about that period. So either you dropped into a bubble of woke - ahead of its time - or something about your presence deterred any nonsense. Either way being terrific news.
A lot of things have been the equivalent of Woke for a very long time. For example, BBC TV and radio presentation/continuity have been at present day levels of Wokeness since about 1990. (Not making a partisan point, just an observation).
What about Dave Lee Travis, aka the Hairy Cornflake? He wasn't very woke.
The Hairy Cornflake last presented Top of the Pops in 1984.
What I'm still not clear on about the supposed (and real) lack of UK government strategy on Afghanistan - what exactly were the critics such as Theresa May expecting? That Dominic Raab and Boris would snap their finger and miraculously transport 50k troops to Kabul to keep hold of the country while we resettled millions of people to other parts of the world? These MPs have been overseeing a huge drop in military spending so we can spunk the cash on buying votes from old people and now they're bitching about it.
Paraphrasing Theresa May: "What does it say about us if Boris Johnson is Prime Minister and not me?"
Comments
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ex-labour-mp-jared-omara-charged-with-fraud-lff00s0q3
I think the answers to the above are mostly caveated No's.
The JCVI's remit should be expanded to "how the fuck do we as a nation avoid a lockdown" in addition to everything else.
‘At about 10am, I decide to go into Kabul after staying at home for three days. With my parent’s permission, I take a taxi. The driver tells me that since the Taliban took over Kabul, the number of their female customers has decreased. “Most of the women and girls who used our services are those who live alone. Since they don’t have a male guardian, now they can’t even leave the house,” he says.’
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/19/as-i-walk-around-kabul-the-streets-are-empty-of-women?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
This does not sound like a revolutionary force with ‘massive support’. The provinces are rebelling, Kabul is sullenly resentful. I wonder how long the Taliban will actually remain in power. Hopefully someone tough will come along soon and slaughter them
The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future political roadmap of Afghanistan.
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf
How on earth could the US government possibly have signed this nonsense?
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/19/no-one-comes-here-any-more-the-human-cost-as-covid-wipes-out-tourism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
-Taliban overrun Afghan cities
-Probably best don’t go on holiday
-I’m going
-Taliban advancing on Kabul
-I’m still going
-Can you make phone call?
-No, I’m on holiday
-Kabul falls
-I’m on way back
-Kabul chaos
-I didn’t see that coming
-Will you resign?
-No
https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1428392369532112899
His gravestone shall read 'He wasn't very good at pulling out.'
The same might apply to Biden. Hence his surreal assertions that the withdrawal ‘could not have been done any other way’, and the men falling off planes is irrelevant because it was ‘four days ago! No, five!’
There seems to have been a persistent pattern, similar to Vietnam, of those on the ground reporting problems being ignored by their senior commanders. I suspect the official intelligence assessments were similarly Panglossian.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/
...The documents also contradict a long chorus of public statements from U.S. presidents, military commanders and diplomats who assured Americans year after year that they were making progress in Afghanistan and the war was worth fighting.
Several of those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case.
“Every data point was altered to present the best picture possible,” Bob Crowley, an Army colonel who served as a senior counterinsurgency adviser to U.S. military commanders in 2013 and 2014, told government interviewers. “Surveys, for instance, were totally unreliable but reinforced that everything we were doing was right and we became a self-licking ice cream cone.”
John Sopko, the head of the federal agency that conducted the interviews, acknowledged to The Post that the documents show “the American people have constantly been lied to.”...
And that is headlining in the news not his alleged missed telephone call
People who see some imaginary liberal conspiracy to destroy western culture do use the term "Woke" quite widely and pejoratively, in order to suppress and marginalise views that they do not want to hear.
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/theresa-may-boris-johnson-afghanistan-taliban-defence-kitten-heels-b951423.html
It was created by a specific set of people people ramming pubs in a way they were not otherwise doing. Once the Euros stopped the population stopped mixing as it had so the football R plummeted.
The problem with sacrificial lambs is that people acquire a taste for them and all too soon want to move on to mutton. I think Boris will resist because he does not like to be bullied and this feels a bit like bullying. It is obvious that Raab and Boris himself have been dumped on here by the senile fool that currently inhabits the Whitehouse. Yes, they could have been cuter and being in Crete wasn't smart but is the FS really supposed to be on duty 52 weeks a year just in case?
No wonder only buffoons and idiots want to go into politics these days.
Wikipedia: Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is a term, originating in the United States, that originally referred to awareness about racial prejudice and discrimination. It subsequently came to encompass an awareness of other issues of social inequality, for instance, regarding gender and sexual orientation. Since the late 2010s, it has also been used as a general term for left-wing political movements and perspectives emphasising the identity politics of people of colour, LGBT people, and women.
One Urban Dictionary contributor defines woke as “being aware of the truth behind things 'the man' doesn't want you to know”. Meanwhile, a concurrent definition signals a shift in meaning to “the act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue”.8 Sept 2019
Lots of takes out there, it is a word whose meaning is shifting. A meaningful discussion on associated issues would probably best avoid it and be precise and specific.
https://www.vmicuk.com/pressrelease/2020-review
https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1428358306356109317
(One of the authors of a new paper out in Cell.)
On the other hand, I think it is fair to blame the government for being lazy and unprepared for the mechanics of withdrawal - we should, for example, have got UK citizens and our Afghan interpreters out in a more measured way.
If a covid-positive bloke is in hospital with whiplash, he shouldn’t be down as a covid hospitalisation! Full stop.
Arguing that his having covid might have caused him to drive his Audi TT into a bollard at high speed is ridiculous.
And where's the evidence that liberals in the US are less interested than Conservatives (trad or MAGA) in female emancipation in other countries?
It's a crass argument. There's probably always *something* on the FS's calendar that, if it went wrong, (s)he could be accused of missing.
I do think that attitudes to what's acceptable behaviour towards other groups has become much more careful, on the whole in a helpful way. There have always been people who will cheerfully shrug off any amount of snarkiness/patronising/exploitation and come out successfully, but there must have been an awful lot of people who suffered quietly in silence. I cringe to think of some of the things I did and said myself 40 years ago - nobody reprimanded me, but I do recall noticing that the people I was joking about looked less amused than I expected. It wasn't ill-intended, but I like to think I've learned to be more considerate, and so have most of us.
Nor did I say that America pulled out of Afghanistan in order to pursue a radical liberal agenda at home. You're inventing straw men.
@kinabalu is intrinsically risible. I’d miss his lunacies if he ever actually opened his mind and raised his IQ over 100.04
The BBC made it sound like it wouldn’t have been a problem if it had been a British child that had died.
https://order-order.com/2021/08/19/rory-stewart-and-mehdi-hassans-question-time-afghanistan-bust-up/?fbclid=IwAR1L7kTCk2ka1aMD0WWdLBin9C-UthOsAXSEA1Hk5eHdGIMCtLjRXFYBq-o
Conservatives only interest in any of this is to whinge about the so-called 'hypocrisy' of liberals. This is their passion.
Just keeping everyone posted
Do you really think that any UK PM could have done anything to stop Biden's action who was enacting Trump's policy
What, the BBC, surely not.
https://tenor.com/biWPk.gif
What other definition do you use?
I note that so called "anti-Woke" posters are very reluctant to provide the definition that they use.
It may well be that it means some dark and brooding bogeyman to them, but it really is hard to understand what they mean.
Just as people called Woke are, very often, genuinely Woke, boring, annoying and wanky. Eg Kinabalu
http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/trivia/presenters/list5.shtml