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If Johnson wants a sacrificial lamb Raab looks the best choice – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    I am staring directly at the ruins of the Parthenon, as I contemplate the collapse of western civilisation, and I am about to order a fine Pikri beer

    Life, huh

    We’re at a weird moment in history. Because in roughly the next decade we’re also highly likely going to see the West land on Mars and build a lunar base, pretty likely going to invent an HIV vaccine and probably another for many more cancers, with a bigger than outside shot of first commercialisation of fusion power.

    There will still be plenty of drink to be drunk and new songs to be sung for Western civilisation in our lifetime. It’s what we’re leaving behind to the next generation that unsettles me. But perhaps it has always been thus.

    I am trying to remember which eminent scientist suggested that we would cure just about everything else first on the road to an HIV cure.
    When I was doing cancer research in the late 70s, the wisdom was that we would never find 'a' cure (as it is not 'a' disease) and that no progress would be made in the next 50 years. Well, 50 years on, my wife is 6 years out and clear from what would previously been an untreatable form of breast cancer, my brother-in-law has survived stage 4 colon cancer with lung mets, and a friend has survived stage 4 brain cancer. So only the first part of the wisdom turned out to be true.

    The energy and scale of research in every field of science in the West is extraordinary. It will continue to achieve unimaginable things so long as our society holds together (and we are not successfully invaded by religious zealots). Our failures, to me, lie in our measurements of success - materialism, and the consequences that has had in destroying much of our social fabric. But I don't think this is a new problem in the West.
    Yes - the scientist in question, IIRC, was saying that HIV was such a hard problem that the spinoffs from developing the technology to even really work on a cure would solve many other diseases.

    I think you could argue he was right. And now we have a couple of serious attempts at an HIV vaccine in the works...
    Yep. As I see it, HIV presents 3 challenges to vaccination, each huge mountains to climb, and two of which would have very general applications to other diseases:

    1. it both multiplies and mutates at such a rate that its immunogenicity is constantly changing, and each infected person has multiple strains in their body at any one time
    2. it hides its antigenic surface proteins (which vaccines would target) with sugars which the host recognizes as self
    3. it inserts its genetic material into the genome of T-cells to form latent infections, thereby becoming invisible to the immune system until it starts replicating again.

    With regards to 3, gene drives might present a route of attack. They work by inserting a CRISPR-Cas9 complex into the cell. CRISPR's origin is as the immune system, or more correctly, genome repair system of archaea in defence against viral infections. Gene drives work by scanning for faults in the genome (against a template) and repairing those faults. Thus you can, in theory, set up a CRISPR-Cas9 system to recognize a viral insertion in a genome as a fault which it repairs (i.e. excises the viral genome).
    I look at all the progress.

    Then I re-read New Rose Hotel.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    AlistairM said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    3,367 cases in Scotland !!!!

    No doubt this is linked to back to school.
    School has only been back for 3 days maximum. The majority of schools kids would have only started back yesterday.

    Not enough time for symptoms to develop and gets tested.

    On the by specimen date chart the leap starts on the 16th.
    It is quite possible the schools all asked the kids to test before they go back (i.e on 16th/17th). It is therefore picking up on a load of asymptomatic cases that wouldn't have otherwise been detected. Just expect in 3 weeks' time when the rest of the UK's schoolkids go back for there to be an even bigger spike.

    It does raise the question as to why the 12 to 15 year old children are not being jabbed. The jabs have been deemed safe for them so what is holding them back? My suspicion is that they want to stockpile Pfizer/Moderna as booster jabs for all the oldies who had AZ the first time around.
    I don't think 'positives among schoolkids' necessarily implies 'schoolkids should be jabbed'. If it's true that getting jabbed doesn't stop you spreading it, and if it's also true that schoolkids are not at risk of serious illness from covid, and if its also true that there are potential dangers with the vaccine, then jabbing schoolkids may be either a) pointless and/or b) more risky than not doing so.
    I don't know the extent to which the above questions are true.
    i. Massively lowers spread
    ii. The risk of myocarditis is less than catching Covid, the CDC have looked into this one in the states.
    Well fair enough. As I said, I didn't know the extent to which any of those questions were true. Just pointing out that an increase in positives on its own is no reason to take the proposed course of action (or indeed any other course of action).
    Personally, gut feeling is that I'd vaccinate my children, given the opportunity. But I'm no expert and in no position to contradict the advice of those who supposedly know better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    I went shopping this morning and for the first time in a month every single person was wearing a mask inside. Obviously anecdotal, but I'm not alone in being concerned at the emerging data.

    The ZOE analysis is well worth looking into.

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/uk-cases-hold-steady

    Anyway, I apologise that this isn't the mood music that some wish to read about. But what is great leadership but warning people about the true dangers ahead? In this regard Churchill and Johnson are at opposite ends of the life spectrum. The former was frequently accused of being a doom-mongerer. The latter is full of gloss.

    I think we have at least two more years of this pandemic and there will be some bleak times.

    Cases flat after all legal restrictions lifted? Doesn't seem that bleak to me.
    A month of normal life will already have made a big difference to the mental (and physical) health of tens of millions even if somehow we do need a winter lockdown of some sort. And even in the winter lockdown scenario it is extremely likely we get at least another couple of months of normality from here.
    Are you kidding? No way I could hack ANOTHER five months of wintry lockdown. I will go mad, or, way more likely, I will flee the country
    Which one ?
    I've just been having a version of this debate with my family.

    If we have to flee the UK to avoid another winter lockdown (and some members of my fam are equally mutinous at the prospect) where the hell would you go?

    My immediate instinct would be Thailand, for the winter, But not this winter. Likewise Australia, my other go to place. Which leaves, where?

    America, no. Europe will be locked down, if we are

    Africa eek

    Half the Caribbean is under curfew

    Pitcairn?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    I went shopping this morning and for the first time in a month every single person was wearing a mask inside. Obviously anecdotal, but I'm not alone in being concerned at the emerging data.

    The ZOE analysis is well worth looking into.

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/uk-cases-hold-steady

    Anyway, I apologise that this isn't the mood music that some wish to read about. But what is great leadership but warning people about the true dangers ahead? In this regard Churchill and Johnson are at opposite ends of the life spectrum. The former was frequently accused of being a doom-mongerer. The latter is full of gloss.

    I think we have at least two more years of this pandemic and there will be some bleak times.

    Cases flat after all legal restrictions lifted? Doesn't seem that bleak to me.
    A month of normal life will already have made a big difference to the mental (and physical) health of tens of millions even if somehow we do need a winter lockdown of some sort. And even in the winter lockdown scenario it is extremely likely we get at least another couple of months of normality from here.
    Are you kidding? No way I could hack ANOTHER five months of wintry lockdown. I will go mad, or, way more likely, I will flee the country
    Which one ?
    I've just been having a version of this debate with my family.

    If we have to flee the UK to avoid another winter lockdown (and some members of my fam are equally mutinous at the prospect) where the hell would you go?

    My immediate instinct would be Thailand, for the winter, But not this winter. Likewise Australia, my other go to place. Which leaves, where?

    America, no. Europe will be locked down, if we are

    Africa eek

    Half the Caribbean is under curfew

    Pitcairn?
    Latin America?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    I am staring directly at the ruins of the Parthenon, as I contemplate the collapse of western civilisation, and I am about to order a fine Pikri beer

    Life, huh

    We’re at a weird moment in history. Because in roughly the next decade we’re also highly likely going to see the West land on Mars and build a lunar base, pretty likely going to invent an HIV vaccine and probably another for many more cancers, with a bigger than outside shot of first commercialisation of fusion power.

    There will still be plenty of drink to be drunk and new songs to be sung for Western civilisation in our lifetime. It’s what we’re leaving behind to the next generation that unsettles me. But perhaps it has always been thus.

    Also, Pikri beer is really good. Greece now has excellent artisanal IPAs
    Ionian Pale Ale?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Leon said:

    Africa eek

    Egypt?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    3,367 cases in Scotland !!!!

    No doubt this is linked to back to school.
    School has only been back for 3 days maximum. The majority of schools kids would have only started back yesterday.

    Not enough time for symptoms to develop and gets tested.

    On the by specimen date chart the leap starts on the 16th.
    There were 3,367 new cases reported throughout Scotland today, which is more than double last Thursdays figure of 1,525.

    The positivity rate is also up from 5.2% last Thursday to 9.0% today.


    https://twitter.com/TravellingTabby/status/1428363859543293959
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    I went shopping this morning and for the first time in a month every single person was wearing a mask inside. Obviously anecdotal, but I'm not alone in being concerned at the emerging data.

    The ZOE analysis is well worth looking into.

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/uk-cases-hold-steady

    Anyway, I apologise that this isn't the mood music that some wish to read about. But what is great leadership but warning people about the true dangers ahead? In this regard Churchill and Johnson are at opposite ends of the life spectrum. The former was frequently accused of being a doom-mongerer. The latter is full of gloss.

    I think we have at least two more years of this pandemic and there will be some bleak times.

    Cases flat after all legal restrictions lifted? Doesn't seem that bleak to me.
    A month of normal life will already have made a big difference to the mental (and physical) health of tens of millions even if somehow we do need a winter lockdown of some sort. And even in the winter lockdown scenario it is extremely likely we get at least another couple of months of normality from here.
    Are you kidding? No way I could hack ANOTHER five months of wintry lockdown. I will go mad, or, way more likely, I will flee the country
    Which one ?
    I've just been having a version of this debate with my family.

    If we have to flee the UK to avoid another winter lockdown (and some members of my fam are equally mutinous at the prospect) where the hell would you go?

    My immediate instinct would be Thailand, for the winter, But not this winter. Likewise Australia, my other go to place. Which leaves, where?

    America, no. Europe will be locked down, if we are

    Africa eek

    Half the Caribbean is under curfew

    Pitcairn?
    Some great deals available at the Kandahar Travelodge.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    I went shopping this morning and for the first time in a month every single person was wearing a mask inside. Obviously anecdotal, but I'm not alone in being concerned at the emerging data.

    The ZOE analysis is well worth looking into.

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/uk-cases-hold-steady

    Anyway, I apologise that this isn't the mood music that some wish to read about. But what is great leadership but warning people about the true dangers ahead? In this regard Churchill and Johnson are at opposite ends of the life spectrum. The former was frequently accused of being a doom-mongerer. The latter is full of gloss.

    I think we have at least two more years of this pandemic and there will be some bleak times.

    Cases flat after all legal restrictions lifted? Doesn't seem that bleak to me.
    A month of normal life will already have made a big difference to the mental (and physical) health of tens of millions even if somehow we do need a winter lockdown of some sort. And even in the winter lockdown scenario it is extremely likely we get at least another couple of months of normality from here.
    Are you kidding? No way I could hack ANOTHER five months of wintry lockdown. I will go mad, or, way more likely, I will flee the country
    Which one ?
    I've just been having a version of this debate with my family.

    If we have to flee the UK to avoid another winter lockdown (and some members of my fam are equally mutinous at the prospect) where the hell would you go?

    My immediate instinct would be Thailand, for the winter, But not this winter. Likewise Australia, my other go to place. Which leaves, where?

    America, no. Europe will be locked down, if we are

    Africa eek

    Half the Caribbean is under curfew

    Pitcairn?
    Latin America?
    I hear there might be some vacated apartments in Kabul.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    I went shopping this morning and for the first time in a month every single person was wearing a mask inside. Obviously anecdotal, but I'm not alone in being concerned at the emerging data.

    The ZOE analysis is well worth looking into.

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/uk-cases-hold-steady

    Anyway, I apologise that this isn't the mood music that some wish to read about. But what is great leadership but warning people about the true dangers ahead? In this regard Churchill and Johnson are at opposite ends of the life spectrum. The former was frequently accused of being a doom-mongerer. The latter is full of gloss.

    I think we have at least two more years of this pandemic and there will be some bleak times.

    Cases flat after all legal restrictions lifted? Doesn't seem that bleak to me.
    A month of normal life will already have made a big difference to the mental (and physical) health of tens of millions even if somehow we do need a winter lockdown of some sort. And even in the winter lockdown scenario it is extremely likely we get at least another couple of months of normality from here.
    Are you kidding? No way I could hack ANOTHER five months of wintry lockdown. I will go mad, or, way more likely, I will flee the country
    Which one ?
    I've just been having a version of this debate with my family.

    If we have to flee the UK to avoid another winter lockdown (and some members of my fam are equally mutinous at the prospect) where the hell would you go?

    My immediate instinct would be Thailand, for the winter, But not this winter. Likewise Australia, my other go to place. Which leaves, where?

    America, no. Europe will be locked down, if we are

    Africa eek

    Half the Caribbean is under curfew

    Pitcairn?
    Latin America?
    I hear Peru is doing just great. Not
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450
    edited August 2021
    CNN slaughtering Biden on Kabul

    "If this isn't failure, what does failure look like?"

    Biden is getting brutal critiques from all sides, that's what sets this debacle apart, I think


    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1428364465888587780?s=20
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.
  • US Capitol Police

    This is an active bomb threat investigation

    The staging area for journalists covering this situation is at Constitution and First Street
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    edited August 2021
    Library of Congress being evacuated over possible bomb.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    I went shopping this morning and for the first time in a month every single person was wearing a mask inside. Obviously anecdotal, but I'm not alone in being concerned at the emerging data.

    The ZOE analysis is well worth looking into.

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/uk-cases-hold-steady

    Anyway, I apologise that this isn't the mood music that some wish to read about. But what is great leadership but warning people about the true dangers ahead? In this regard Churchill and Johnson are at opposite ends of the life spectrum. The former was frequently accused of being a doom-mongerer. The latter is full of gloss.

    I think we have at least two more years of this pandemic and there will be some bleak times.

    Cases flat after all legal restrictions lifted? Doesn't seem that bleak to me.
    A month of normal life will already have made a big difference to the mental (and physical) health of tens of millions even if somehow we do need a winter lockdown of some sort. And even in the winter lockdown scenario it is extremely likely we get at least another couple of months of normality from here.
    Are you kidding? No way I could hack ANOTHER five months of wintry lockdown. I will go mad, or, way more likely, I will flee the country
    Which one ?
    I've just been having a version of this debate with my family.

    If we have to flee the UK to avoid another winter lockdown (and some members of my fam are equally mutinous at the prospect) where the hell would you go?

    My immediate instinct would be Thailand, for the winter, But not this winter. Likewise Australia, my other go to place. Which leaves, where?

    America, no. Europe will be locked down, if we are

    Africa eek

    Half the Caribbean is under curfew

    Pitcairn?
    Afternoon all!

    My Thai family are hoping to come here!

  • On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    True, but that isn't what Raab is being criticised over.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450
    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I would, literally, rather live in London during the Blitz than go through five months of lockdown on my own in a one bed flat in wintry Camden, again

    And, FWIW, I have now not seen my older daughter in Australia for nearly 2 fucking years
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited August 2021
    The vaccine rollout has directly averted between 91,700 to 98,000 deaths
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited August 2021
    Bring back Peter Carrington.

    Now there was a Foreign Secretary with honour.

    Although the thought of Dominic Raab as NATO SecGen in the new future fills me with dread.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ella Wheelan:

    "Afghanistan is not about you
    Tom Tugendhat and Johnny Mercer remind us of the narcissism of Western intervention."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/08/19/afghanistan-is-not-about-you/

    Where was Tugendhat when Trump signed his deal at the beginning of 2020 ?
    Where was PB when that happened?

    Not a dig, it's just I can't recall much on it and I'm wondering if it's a memory fail or whether there really wasn't and it kind of just slipped on by for some reason.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I keep thinking of my great ^ 750 grandmother, hadn’t seen her husband for months since he went hunting and that snow storm started. She was running low on supplies but learnt to do all sorts of wonderful things with elk spam.

    Pretty facile to compare the travails of those in the past with today innit.
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
    And, for all we moan about woke, for all some mutter about the need for Real Men, for all the not-totally-ironic nostalgia for the world of Life on Mars, and for all that those feels are one of the factors in our current politics, we wouldn't really want to go back to that society...

    ... would we?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Quiz question: where in Europe is the hotel Kandahar?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Leon said:

    CNN slaughtering Biden on Kabul

    "If this isn't failure, what does failure look like?"

    Biden is getting brutal critiques from all sides, that's what sets this debacle apart, I think


    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1428364465888587780?s=20

    The liberal media showing they are nothing like as crazy biased as the other mob.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Quiz question: where in Europe is the hotel Kandahar?

    Val-d'Isère.

    I'm guessing you're on the same email list I am.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    The thing is that even if specific loved ones were away for many years, people still had masses of social contact and camaraderie to help them through those difficult times. I do think there is something uniquely difficult about asking people to isolate themselves from each other - however necessary that became because we were otherwise unable to control the virus.

    I also think that, as a democracy, we should have been encouraged to take that difficult action voluntarily, and not had the law used to regulate entry to private residences.
  • kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ella Wheelan:

    "Afghanistan is not about you
    Tom Tugendhat and Johnny Mercer remind us of the narcissism of Western intervention."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/08/19/afghanistan-is-not-about-you/

    Where was Tugendhat when Trump signed his deal at the beginning of 2020 ?
    Where was PB when that happened?

    Not a dig, it's just I can't recall much on it and I'm wondering if it's a memory fail or whether there really wasn't and it kind of just slipped on by for some reason.
    Its a good point.

    I made a similar point when this kicked off - the world had forgotten about Afghanistan and didn't care about it anymore. That's why this is completely different to eg the fall of Saigon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Scott_xP said:

    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1

    I'd say only 59% labour saying yes is a pretty good result for him. I'd assume youd get that asking about any cabinet minister in normal times.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Quiz question: where in Europe is the hotel Kandahar?

    Val d'Isere
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
    New Prime Minister Tony Blair was showing some Commonwealth leaders around the Liffe floor and someone sauntered out of the Gilt pit and asked him who ordered the taxis.
  • On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    That's not the argument, Philip, and I think you know it.

    The argument is whether the UK Government was alive to the speed of events and behaved with the necessary degree of urgency and seriousness in assisting those Afghans who worked with us over the years in particular. The fairly strong suggestion is that they weren't, and were more focussed on their own personal holiday arrangements.

    I don't think Raab will go over this. Primarily Johnson can't, in all seriousness, sack other people for being ill-disciplined, lazy, and lacking focus.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    There are lots of very cruel experiments that have been done on monkeys that look at the effects of social isolation. They're harrowing.

    There's a reason solitary confinement is used as a punishment in many penal systems.

    I think we should acknowledge that it was a difficult thing to go through.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    I think May is a tosser and only dipped in and out the debate. But… I don’t think that’s what she and others were suggesting is it? More that there may have been time to build a coalition but that the government didn’t bother asking until it was far too late. Too late even to avert the catastrofuck exit thats unfolding, with thousands of international citizens stranded outside of easy reach of western military assistance.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    All security staff on duty in parliament today have apparently been instructed to take a test and to wear a mask at all times.

    Trade unions want to know when the parliamentary authorities became aware of the uptick in cases and whether MPs were briefed

    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1428370141377609728
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
    And, for all we moan about woke, for all some mutter about the need for Real Men, for all the not-totally-ironic nostalgia for the world of Life on Mars, and for all that those feels are one of the factors in our current politics, we wouldn't really want to go back to that society...

    ... would we?
    The problem, as I see it anyway, is that the sexism @kinabalu describes, and the racism the Chelsea coaches are accused of, barely exist now, yet the woke world acts as if things have never been worse. The fact they have had to invent ‘micro aggressions’ to be upset about shows how things have changed for the better
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited August 2021
    Gavin Williamson is still there in cabinet after being so incompetent that he paid full price for a DFS sofa threatened to sue local authorities who wanted to close schools because of Covid-19 last December then Williamson opened schools for one day in January before closing them.

    Priti Patel is still there despite being a bully.

    Robert Jenrick is still there despite some eyebrow raising behaviour.

    Boris Johnson is still there despite well you know..

    Ergo Raab should be safe as Boris Johnson and his cabinet have set the so low bar that not even Borrower Sunak can crawl under it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I would, literally, rather live in London during the Blitz than go through five months of lockdown on my own in a one bed flat in wintry Camden, again

    And, FWIW, I have now not seen my older daughter in Australia for nearly 2 fucking years
    Was this the end game of your vodka splurge in St P.?

    https://twitter.com/Wild_SPb/status/1428310548882640898?s=20
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821



    And, for all we moan about woke, for all some mutter about the need for Real Men, for all the not-totally-ironic nostalgia for the world of Life on Mars, and for all that those feels are one of the factors in our current politics, we wouldn't really want to go back to that society...

    ... would we?

    Hmm, not sure. I understand from young student relatives that things have got so bad at universities that a young man cannot express any interest in a young woman for fear of being accused of sexual harassment or worse. The only way to hook up without risk is via an app (no doubt an app which is commercially exploiting this new market).
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    edited August 2021

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    The thing is that even if specific loved ones were away for many years, people still had masses of social contact and camaraderie to help them through those difficult times. I do think there is something uniquely difficult about asking people to isolate themselves from each other - however necessary that became because we were otherwise unable to control the virus.

    I also think that, as a democracy, we should have been encouraged to take that difficult action voluntarily, and not had the law used to regulate entry to private residences.
    I'm not shrugging off the struggles. Clearly it has been hard for all of us. But it's not like we are utterly isolated with modern technology. We now have phone calls and even video conferencing at virtually no financial cost. My parents were reading stories to my kids while we left the WhatsApp chat on for hours. My Nan got the odd letter.

    Given the vast numbers of human lives at risk, particularly the way you are exposing other people to risk, I don't think it is any more reasonable to leave lockdown choices to an individual decision (at least pre-vaccination) than it is to decide to leave on lights during the Blitz to individual decision.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Walton on Thames.
  • On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    That's not the argument, Philip, and I think you know it.

    The argument is whether the UK Government was alive to the speed of events and behaved with the necessary degree of urgency and seriousness in assisting those Afghans who worked with us over the years in particular. The fairly strong suggestion is that they weren't, and were more focussed on their own personal holiday arrangements.

    I don't think Raab will go over this. Primarily Johnson can't, in all seriousness, sack other people for being ill-disciplined, lazy, and lacking focus.
    For fairness Biden was on holiday longer than Raab

    And the accusation is over him not making a phone call which was taken by another member of the FO
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    Quiz question: where in Europe is the hotel Kandahar?

    Val-d'Isère.

    I'm guessing you're on the same email list I am.
    I'm not, I just used to ski in Val d'Isere.

    Miss that place. Great skiing. Great night life. The only problem with it was that it was another 90 minutes past all the other French ski resorts, and was therefore a complete pain to get to.
  • rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Windhoek.
  • moonshine said:

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    I think May is a tosser and only dipped in and out the debate. But… I don’t think that’s what she and others were suggesting is it? More that there may have been time to build a coalition but that the government didn’t bother asking until it was far too late. Too late even to avert the catastrofuck exit thats unfolding, with thousands of international citizens stranded outside of easy reach of western military assistance.
    I don't think there was remotely time to build a coalition for two very good reasons.
    1. After twenty years not a single nation was interested in being in such a coalition.
    2. Biden made this decision unilaterally, without consulting with his partners, removing the option to make planning decisions before it was too late.
    Any chance of averting a catastrophic exit would have required Biden to pick up a phone to his partners who had troops in the region before he made the decision, not after it, but even then it probably wasn't possible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
    And, for all we moan about woke, for all some mutter about the need for Real Men, for all the not-totally-ironic nostalgia for the world of Life on Mars, and for all that those feels are one of the factors in our current politics, we wouldn't really want to go back to that society...

    ... would we?
    No. There are elements, but not the whole. Going back doesnt really mean going back, most of the time, as people forget the bad stuff.

    Take LGBTQ rights - theres some fierce debates now around the T in particular, suggestion that some policies have gone too far, but even when I grew up in the 90s even something as small as a gay couple in a mainstream show could still be novel and lots of people still in politics now didn't even seem to consider gay marriage, which would be a basic test for those people now of something any decent person would back.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    That's not the argument, Philip, and I think you know it.

    The argument is whether the UK Government was alive to the speed of events and behaved with the necessary degree of urgency and seriousness in assisting those Afghans who worked with us over the years in particular. The fairly strong suggestion is that they weren't, and were more focussed on their own personal holiday arrangements.

    I don't think Raab will go over this. Primarily Johnson can't, in all seriousness, sack other people for being ill-disciplined, lazy, and lacking focus.
    For fairness Biden was on holiday longer than Raab

    And the accusation is over him not making a phone call which was taken by another member of the FO
    Is Camp David really on holiday? We all know there is the equivalent of a second oval office there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited August 2021
    36,572 new cases....113 deaths.
  • Aslan said:

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    That's not the argument, Philip, and I think you know it.

    The argument is whether the UK Government was alive to the speed of events and behaved with the necessary degree of urgency and seriousness in assisting those Afghans who worked with us over the years in particular. The fairly strong suggestion is that they weren't, and were more focussed on their own personal holiday arrangements.

    I don't think Raab will go over this. Primarily Johnson can't, in all seriousness, sack other people for being ill-disciplined, lazy, and lacking focus.
    For fairness Biden was on holiday longer than Raab

    And the accusation is over him not making a phone call which was taken by another member of the FO
    Is Camp David really on holiday? We all know there is the equivalent of a second oval office there.
    He did not surface before the Tuesday conference at 8.45pm UK time
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Somewhere in Namibia? The name Windhoek pops into mind, is that there?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Windhoek.
    Named for his WW1 fighter fame rather than WW2 antics presumably!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Windhoek.
    Named for his WW1 fighter fame rather than WW2 antics presumably!
    I thought it was for his rather genocidal dad?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    moonshine said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I keep thinking of my great ^ 750 grandmother, hadn’t seen her husband for months since he went hunting and that snow storm started. She was running low on supplies but learnt to do all sorts of wonderful things with elk spam.

    Pretty facile to compare the travails of those in the past with today innit.
    Not really. We should appreciate what we have and put difficulties in context. Especially when we are using these difficulties to justify policies that will cause more people to die.
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Windhoek.
    Named for his WW1 fighter fame rather than WW2 antics presumably!
    IIRC his father was the German Ambassador to South West Africa/Namibia which had something do do with it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Windhoek.
    Named for his WW1 fighter fame rather than WW2 antics presumably!
    I thought it was for his rather genocidal dad?
    Quite possibly.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    edited August 2021

    36,572 new cases....113 deaths.

    The graph is looking increasingly like a steady rise from mid-June, overlaid by a big football-related spike. Increasing freedom and activity being countered almost exactly by increasing numbers vaccinated and/or infected. R therefore holding steady at just over 1.

    Which I'm struggling to believe, frankly. The Euros maybe had an impact, but surely not THAT big an impact. Still, that's what it looks like.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Aslan said:

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    That's not the argument, Philip, and I think you know it.

    The argument is whether the UK Government was alive to the speed of events and behaved with the necessary degree of urgency and seriousness in assisting those Afghans who worked with us over the years in particular. The fairly strong suggestion is that they weren't, and were more focussed on their own personal holiday arrangements.

    I don't think Raab will go over this. Primarily Johnson can't, in all seriousness, sack other people for being ill-disciplined, lazy, and lacking focus.
    For fairness Biden was on holiday longer than Raab

    And the accusation is over him not making a phone call which was taken by another member of the FO
    Is Camp David really on holiday? We all know there is the equivalent of a second oval office there.
    He did not surface before the Tuesday conference at 8.45pm UK time
    Which was the politically smart decision. Events were changing quickly and an earlier press conference would have just been a lot of don't knows.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    36,572 new cases....113 deaths.

    Seems clear to me now that the big drop in cases we saw was driven by schools finishing for the Summer. We are seeing increases now but nothing like we were but this is with the Scottish schools now back.

    The problem seems to be that with so many people double jabbed we are still seeing large numbers of cases and far more admissions than we would have hoped for. Some of the oldies were jabbed over 8 months ago with Pfizer that data suggests will lose its effectiveness over time. Given this I think that they should start giving booster jabs to the oldest cohorts ASAP. Mix and match them up for the best protection. Those who had Pfizer to get AZ, those who got AZ to get Pfizer.

    If they don't there is going to be a danger when people see real time Winter stats (something people never used to see with Flu) that there will be calls for more lockdowns.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
    And, for all we moan about woke, for all some mutter about the need for Real Men, for all the not-totally-ironic nostalgia for the world of Life on Mars, and for all that those feels are one of the factors in our current politics, we wouldn't really want to go back to that society...

    ... would we?
    The problem, as I see it anyway, is that the sexism @kinabalu describes, and the racism the Chelsea coaches are accused of, barely exist now, yet the woke world acts as if things have never been worse. The fact they have had to invent ‘micro aggressions’ to be upset about shows how things have changed for the better
    Thetes something in this. I do think woke watchers need to not overreact, but on the other hand some truly stupid complaints do get treated on par with really horrendous views (or seem to take us backwards). Not all sins are equal, and wanting to improve further is noble, inequalities and discrimination still exist and one should not be grateful things are better and stop striving for more, but neither is every outraged person reasonable in their outrage.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390
    Scott_xP said:

    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1

    Don't know = never heard of him. I strongly suspect a lot of the great British public don't have a clue who Raab is, though they may have found out over the last couple of days. He's been a pretty anonymous Foreign Secretary.
  • Aslan said:

    On topic: One point which may have been missed is that sacking Raab would be a clear admission that the government was asleep on the job and that Starmer was right to lay into Boris on the issue. So it ain't gonna happen, not for some while anyway.

    Its Silly Season and it doesn't get much Sillier than to be suggesting the UK could or should have unilaterally continued the two-decades old war past the point that Biden pulled the plug, without any NATO partners interested in doing so.
    That's not the argument, Philip, and I think you know it.

    The argument is whether the UK Government was alive to the speed of events and behaved with the necessary degree of urgency and seriousness in assisting those Afghans who worked with us over the years in particular. The fairly strong suggestion is that they weren't, and were more focussed on their own personal holiday arrangements.

    I don't think Raab will go over this. Primarily Johnson can't, in all seriousness, sack other people for being ill-disciplined, lazy, and lacking focus.
    For fairness Biden was on holiday longer than Raab

    And the accusation is over him not making a phone call which was taken by another member of the FO
    Is Camp David really on holiday? We all know there is the equivalent of a second oval office there.
    He did not surface before the Tuesday conference at 8.45pm UK time
    Naval Support Facility Thurmont is not a holiday resort.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1

    Don't know = never heard of him. I strongly suspect a lot of the great British public don't have a clue who Raab is, though they may have found out over the last couple of days. He's been a pretty anonymous Foreign Secretary.
    I think that is true of most of our politicians
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This is jaw dropping. The goings on at Chelsea FC youth team in the 90s.

    “ This is a tough read (be warned).

    The court documents, obtained by @TheAthleticUK, about culture of ‘racist bullying’ at Chelsea in the 1990s.

    One coach, Graham Rix, accused of throwing scalding coffee over the head of a black youth-team player.”

    https://twitter.com/dtathletic/status/1428250498465927168?s=21

    Graham Rix, the man who got done for under aged sex. Blow me down with a feather.
    I just can’t get my head round how uncouth and nasty they were. What the coaches are accused of saying is what I am guessing people anonymously post on social media nowadays when black players miss penalties or make mistakes etc - amazing to think they thought they could get away with it, if true of course.
    It might be amazing nowadays but in the 80s or early 90s (and probably before but I wouldnt know) a lot of the areas dominated by young men were like that. Bullying, violence or racism wouldnt have been at all unusual in the army, police, football or rugby. Not necessarily expected, but not surprising at the time either.
    My first job was as a runner at the LIFFE floor in the mid 90s. 3000 people there and probably 2975 were white. But almost all the cleaners were black and I was never comfortable with it. I remember seeing one bloke throw some food in the floor in the canteen just so the cleaner would pick it up. Coming from Essex and working there/Romford market, playing Sunday football, I heard millions of racist comments and jokes, but never really brutal, face to face, what I’d call Deep South style hatred, like that.
    The City was bad in my day too. The sexism was what I noticed most. I would hope that the sort of stuff that was routine then wouldn't be tolerated now.

    "Oh fuck, that's wrong, gonna call Seddlements."

    Fiona picks up. "Yep."

    "Hey juicytits, can you be an angel and cancel a trade for me."

    "I can cancel something, Darren, yes. Be delighted to."

    She hangs up and calls HR.
    I had a job in the City in the mid-90s. There were 6 men and two women on a trading/analysis desk at a large investment bank. I don't remember a single sexist comment all the time I was there, either by the standards of the time or by today's incredibly sensitive standards. But maybe I was just using the bathroom or doing the photocopying every time they were made.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I keep thinking of my great ^ 750 grandmother, hadn’t seen her husband for months since he went hunting and that snow storm started. She was running low on supplies but learnt to do all sorts of wonderful things with elk spam.

    Pretty facile to compare the travails of those in the past with today innit.
    Not really. We should appreciate what we have and put difficulties in context. Especially when we are using these difficulties to justify policies that will cause more people to die.
    My mum has experienced both and days she would infinitely rather live through the war again than another bout of lockdown. Extraordinary how unhelpful banal familial anecdotes can be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I would, literally, rather live in London during the Blitz than go through five months of lockdown on my own in a one bed flat in wintry Camden, again

    And, FWIW, I have now not seen my older daughter in Australia for nearly 2 fucking years
    Was this the end game of your vodka splurge in St P.?

    https://twitter.com/Wild_SPb/status/1428310548882640898?s=20
    That is exactly what you see during the White Nights, but more glamorous, somehow

    A barechested drunk man galloped three horses down a boulevard at one in the morning. My wife stripped completely naked on Nevsky Prospekt as she sang Jewish folk songs

    No one batted an eyelid at any of it. White Nights are great
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390

    Scott_xP said:

    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1

    Don't know = never heard of him. I strongly suspect a lot of the great British public don't have a clue who Raab is, though they may have found out over the last couple of days. He's been a pretty anonymous Foreign Secretary.
    I think that is true of most of our politicians
    Yes, but I was thinking of the holders of the great offices of state. I think Sunak and Patel are pretty well known; Raab, not so much.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264

    Bring back Peter Carrington.

    Now there was a Foreign Secretary with honour.

    Although the thought of Dominic Raab as NATO SecGen in the new future fills me with dread.

    It was an odd quirk, designed solely to keep editors on their toes, that he was known either as Peter Carington (one 'r') or Lord Carrington (two 'r's) or, subsequently, Baron Carington (1 'r').
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Anyone commenting on Scotland's positive case numbers? Do they presage numbers in England doubling in a couple of week's time?

  • Forget Leon's holiday in Greece.

    I'm currently on a break in the city where Constantine the Great became emperor.

    That's a proper holiday in a place replete with history.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    Bring back Peter Carrington.

    Now there was a Foreign Secretary with honour.

    Although the thought of Dominic Raab as NATO SecGen in the new future fills me with dread.

    It was an odd quirk, designed solely to keep editors on their toes, that he was known either as Peter Carington (one 'r') or Lord Carrington (two 'r's) or, subsequently, Baron Carington (1 'r').
    Why?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited August 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1

    Don't know = never heard of him. I strongly suspect a lot of the great British public don't have a clue who Raab is, though they may have found out over the last couple of days. He's been a pretty anonymous Foreign Secretary.
    I think that is true of most of our politicians
    Yes, but I was thinking of the holders of the great offices of state. I think Sunak and Patel are pretty well known; Raab, not so much.
    Outside of a few positions like chancellor, that's not necessary a bad sign that the public have no idea who they are.....it normally means the world hasn't gone to hell in a hand cart and the department is ticking along ok (or at least the media haven't discovered some terrible scandal about whatever department a minister is in charge of).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    edited August 2021

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And in which city is Hermann Goering Strasse?

    Windhoek.
    Named for his WW1 fighter fame rather than WW2 antics presumably!
    I thought it was for his rather genocidal dad?
    Looked him (the father) up in Wikipedia; sounds a delightful character. The notes about his children say, inter alia that his son, Hermann died 15 October 1946 in Nuremberg. Omits the mention of suicide.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Has the % UK addults with at least one jab dropped again? I thought it was 89.n% yesterday but could be mistaken. It's showing as 87.3% today.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450

    Forget Leon's holiday in Greece.

    I'm currently on a break in the city where Constantine the Great became emperor.

    That's a proper holiday in a place replete with history.

    York
  • Bring back Peter Carrington.

    Now there was a Foreign Secretary with honour.

    Although the thought of Dominic Raab as NATO SecGen in the new future fills me with dread.

    It was an odd quirk, designed solely to keep editors on their toes, that he was known either as Peter Carington (one 'r') or Lord Carrington (two 'r's) or, subsequently, Baron Carington (1 'r').
    The one that gets me is Dumbarton being in Dunbartonshire
  • Has the % UK addults with at least one jab dropped again? I thought it was 89.n% yesterday but could be mistaken. It's showing as 87.3% today.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

    Big blue box at the top...

    Update to denominator used in headline vaccination uptake

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/whats-new/record/eaf55398-fb73-41af-a075-31e645ce3a65
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    alex_ said:

    Anyone commenting on Scotland's positive case numbers? Do they presage numbers in England doubling in a couple of week's time?

    Sooner if it's a football effect. Perhaps not at all if it's tourist-driven.
  • What's a holiday?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Allensbach (Institut für Demoskopie)

    Union: 27.5 % (-2.5%)
    SPD: 19.5 % (+2.5%)
    Grn: 17,5 % (-2%)

    Changes from 28th July.

    By far the best poll for the Union in a while but still a slide compared to the SPD (8% lead compared to 13%.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Has the % UK addults with at least one jab dropped again? I thought it was 89.n% yesterday but could be mistaken. It's showing as 87.3% today.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

    They've added 16 & 17 year olds to the denominator
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Has the % UK addults with at least one jab dropped again? I thought it was 89.n% yesterday but could be mistaken. It's showing as 87.3% today.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

    Big blue box at the top...

    Update to denominator used in headline vaccination uptake

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/whats-new/record/eaf55398-fb73-41af-a075-31e645ce3a65
    Doh! 🤭 Thanks!
  • Dreadful news

    The 5 year old boy who fell to his death from a Sheffield Hotel was an Afghan refugee whose family had recently arrived in the City a few days after having fled from the Taliban
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited August 2021
    alex_ said:

    Anyone commenting on Scotland's positive case numbers? Do they presage numbers in England doubling in a couple of week's time?

    That's my fear.

    This may well be a grim autumn/winter for the Darwin Award contenders antivaxxers.
  • What's a holiday?

    Something us hard working people get to enjoy occasionally.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I would, literally, rather live in London during the Blitz than go through five months of lockdown on my own in a one bed flat in wintry Camden, again

    And, FWIW, I have now not seen my older daughter in Australia for nearly 2 fucking years
    Was this the end game of your vodka splurge in St P.?

    https://twitter.com/Wild_SPb/status/1428310548882640898?s=20
    That looks rather like Galloway.
  • Has the % UK addults with at least one jab dropped again? I thought it was 89.n% yesterday but could be mistaken. It's showing as 87.3% today.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

    I understand they are changing the figures to include 16 plus group but not sure if that is the reason in this case
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I would, literally, rather live in London during the Blitz than go through five months of lockdown on my own in a one bed flat in wintry Camden, again

    And, FWIW, I have now not seen my older daughter in Australia for nearly 2 fucking years
    Was this the end game of your vodka splurge in St P.?

    https://twitter.com/Wild_SPb/status/1428310548882640898?s=20
    Initially, I read that as 'St. Pancras'.
    I love the calmness with which the young man coming from the direction of the camera evades the sword and carries on on his way. As if this sort of thing happens all the time in St. Petersburg.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited August 2021

    What's a holiday?

    Something us hard working people get to enjoy occasionally.
    I have memories of such things vaguely....along with England being a good test team.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Has the % UK addults with at least one jab dropped again? I thought it was 89.n% yesterday but could be mistaken. It's showing as 87.3% today.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

    I understand they are changing the figures to include 16 plus group but not sure if that is the reason in this case
    Yep, the denominator now includes 16 & 17 year-olds, hence the drop in the uptake %
  • US fighter jets are flying over Kabul to ensure security
  • What's a holiday?

    Something us hard working people get to enjoy occasionally.
    I have memories of it vaguely....along with England being a good test team.
    I've actually booked a foreign holiday for next April.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Strange, he claims to know where the £600,000 is......

    SNP president claims he has 'no idea' of membership figures

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1428376805304586242?s=20
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    US fighter jets are flying over Kabul to ensure security

    Horse....... stable door....... comes to mind!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    I keep thinking of my old Nan, who dealt with six years of World War, while not seeing her husband for years as he fought the Japanese in Burma, and had entire chunks of her neighbourhood laid low by the Blitz. I keep thinking what she would say about modern generations being unable to have five months of lockdown.

    I would, literally, rather live in London during the Blitz than go through five months of lockdown on my own in a one bed flat in wintry Camden, again

    And, FWIW, I have now not seen my older daughter in Australia for nearly 2 fucking years
    Was this the end game of your vodka splurge in St P.?

    https://twitter.com/Wild_SPb/status/1428310548882640898?s=20
    That looks rather like Galloway.
    GG claims to be a teetotaller, though it's perfectly possible he could get that drunk on ego and self regard alone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited August 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Should Dominic Raab resign as Foreign Secretary?

    All Britons
    Yes 33% / No 25% /Don't know 42%

    CON
    Yes 16% / No 47% /Don't know 37%

    LAB
    Yes 59% / No 11% / Don't know 31%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/08/19/576a6/1?utm_source=twitter+&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1428368494777622532/photo/1

    Don't know = never heard of him. I strongly suspect a lot of the great British public don't have a clue who Raab is, though they may have found out over the last couple of days. He's been a pretty anonymous Foreign Secretary.
    I think that is true of most of our politicians
    Yes, but I was thinking of the holders of the great offices of state. I think Sunak and Patel are pretty well known; Raab, not so much.
    Sunak gives out cash (and at some point will take it), Patel gives out red meat to Tory supporters and rile up opponents. Raab gets to speak to foreign diplomats. Not much contest.

    Seems like a role for an unambitious an respected elder statesman, not worrying about future prospects or popularity, just managing the grimy world of international politics.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    One theory:

    Meanwhile, in Scotland, today's figure is over double that of a week ago, with 3,367 cases v 1,525, with the case ratio 221%.

    I'm hoping this is mainly a distortion as children tested prior to return to school, rather than indicative of growth in community prevalence.


    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1428375522296336389?s=20
This discussion has been closed.