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Polling update for first half of August – politicalbetting.com

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  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,250
    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,179
    edited August 17
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some alt history speculation from one of the Bush insiders.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bin-laden-2001-end-war-afghanistan/619767/
    Had the United States caught and killed Osama bin Laden in December 2001, the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would have faded away almost immediately afterward. I cannot prove that. It’s only an opinion from my vantage point as one of President George W. Bush’s speechwriters in 2001 and 2002.

    Yet I strongly believe it. The U.S. stayed for 20 years in Afghanistan because first Bush and then his successors got trapped in a pattern of responding to past failures by redoubling future efforts…

    It's interesting because I distinctly remember a shift c.2004-6 towards nation building in Afghanistan and I remember thinking "oh dear". Has anyone asked Biden if he encouraged Obama to withdraw 12 years ago?
    He was opposed to the surge in 2009-10 (post Iraq withdrawal). Not sure if that counts.

    Edit - this article suggests he's always been opposed to the US occupation and a longstanding proponent of withdrawal, although it's guarded in what it says. However, many remarks seem prescient.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/us/politics/biden-afghanistan-troop-withdrawal-taliban.html
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,280
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    What utter rubbish, indeed the polling evidence is most Tory voters agreed with me that Rashford should focus more on politics and less on football as did the vast majority of my fellow Tory members I discussed it with. Indeed an actual Tory MP made a less tactful remark on Rashford and is still very much a Tory MP.

    All this shows is how little you understand the Tory Party now.

    However while Labour are my opponents you and your fellow Scottish Nationalists are my enemy so the more I wind you up the better
    That spiel shows that I understand you and your English Nationalist Party all too well.

    I used to think SLab were a dirty bunch, but (George Galloway excluded) they aren’t a patch on you. You are not my enemy. I pity you.

    By the way, you never explained, why did you call Philip “a complete moron”?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    edited August 17

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    What utter rubbish, indeed the polling evidence is most Tory voters agreed with me that Rashford should focus more on politics and less on football as did the vast majority of my fellow Tory members I discussed it with. Indeed an actual Tory MP made a less tactful remark on Rashford and is still very much a Tory MP.

    All this shows is how little you understand the Tory Party now.

    However while Labour are my opponents you and your fellow Scottish Nationalists are my enemy so the more I wind you up the better
    That spiel shows that I understand you and your English Nationalist Party all too well.

    I used to think SLab were a dirty bunch, but (George Galloway excluded) they aren’t a patch on you. You are not my enemy. I pity you.

    By the way, you never explained, why did you call Philip “a complete moron”?
    Only because he made the idiotic statement Al Qaeda and ISIS were better than the House of Saud.

    The House of Saud may have many faults but replacing it with IS or AQ would be far worse
  • glwglw Posts: 7,759

    You must be about the tenth member of The Herd calling for me to be banned recently. You’d be better spending your time coming up with valid counter-arguments and with ways to make the Union more attractive to Scots. But feel free to carry on up shitcreek.

    Your comment had nothing to do with Scottish independence. You don't get to abuse other people and troll, and then when you get called out on it to switch subjects.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,488

    Carnyx said:

    Off-topic:

    I was listening to R5L during my drive to this morning's run (A beautiful dawn saunter around Sandy Heath, in and around the transmitter), and Dotun Adebayo interviewed an academic who clamed that the cost of 'levelling up' the north of the UK would be about the same as German reunification; that we would have to spend about the same amount Germany has.

    It seems a little off to me: is the disparity between the north and south (say Bolton and Crawley) the same as between (say) Dresden and Bremen in 1989, per capita ?

    (I don't know enough about Germany to pick equivalent cities.)

    Morning, JJ.

    Maybe following on from these reports? This gives a price of 2 x 10e12 for both (I think this is what they mean by 2 trillion)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/15/the-cost-of-boris-johnsons-levelling-up-2tn-says-uk-thinktank

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/levelling-up-britain-will-cost-as-much-as-reuniting-germany-mpjbm23kf
    Thanks for those links. Yes, it was a chap from 'Centre for Cities'. It was an interesting interview, but did not quite pass the sniff test to me.
    I can only imagine there is more in the report itself. But the BRD was much smaller in territory and population than the FRG. Eyeballing this suggests about 21% of total German population at unification. Not sure of equivalent for UK but that in itself could be a factor.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1054199/population-of-east-and-west-germany/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,488
    edited August 17
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,795

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Morning all! Watched the clips from the Biden speech, read comment from my friends on Twitter attacking it and have concluded Biden is largely in the right.

    Certain people have banged away on this forum about Biden's shame in leaving people behind. And yet when it comes to the international community taking Afghan refugees we know what the response will be - NO.

    As we - the UK as much as the US - are responsible for the Talibanisation of Afghanistan, we have a moral obligation to take people fleeing their theocratic bearded Gilead. America has already said it will take 30,000. Canada 20,000. How many will Britain take?

    If England doesn't want them cos bigots send them north of the wall. Scotland will welcome them.

    Fine but how do we check none of them are jihadi militants who as soon as they arrive will fade into the background and set up a terror cell?
    The new leader of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was interrogated for years at Guantanamo and still talked his way out claiming he wanted to work in his father’s shop. What do you reckon can be done in this urgent situation? There might well be some wronguns who slip through the net but that’s the price the West will have to pay for doing what it’s done.
    You do know that the outgoing government styled themselves the "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan"?
    What’s the relevance of that to accepting refugees or not?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,687
    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
    No because I never made it, so an apology then please if you repeat it again
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,673
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
    After a few minutes you can’t delete anything on PB.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,473

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    What utter rubbish, indeed the polling evidence is most Tory voters agreed with me that Rashford should focus more on politics and less on football as did the vast majority of my fellow Tory members I discussed it with. Indeed an actual Tory MP made a less tactful remark on Rashford and is still very much a Tory MP.

    All this shows is how little you understand the Tory Party now.

    However while Labour are my opponents you and your fellow Scottish Nationalists are my enemy so the more I wind you up the better
    That spiel shows that I understand you and your English Nationalist Party all too well.

    I used to think SLab were a dirty bunch, but (George Galloway excluded) they aren’t a patch on you. You are not my enemy. I pity you.

    By the way, you never explained, why did you call Philip “a complete moron”?
    Do you ever explain why you are rude to people ?

    Or make crass offensive comments. ‘Jolly imperial jape’ indeed.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,858

    Anecdata, though quite a bit of it: I posted locally on two Facebook forums that we should be willing to welcome Afghan refugees in return for the support they'd given us. Several anti-immigrant posters weighed in (put our people first, we're full up, etc.), and there are now hundreds of replies. They support what I said by over 7-1, with numerous people asking if there are ways they can help. Is there a charity I can refer them too that's doing specifically relevant work?

    @NickPalmer: this article lists some of the charities which are trying to help in Afghanistan.

    https://thetab.com/uk/2021/08/16/this-is-how-to-show-support-and-help-for-those-in-afghanistan-219107
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,488
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
    After a few minutes you can’t delete anything on PB.
    Butd you can ask for postings to be deleted, or a moderator does it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,194
    Cyclefree said:

    Anecdata, though quite a bit of it: I posted locally on two Facebook forums that we should be willing to welcome Afghan refugees in return for the support they'd given us. Several anti-immigrant posters weighed in (put our people first, we're full up, etc.), and there are now hundreds of replies. They support what I said by over 7-1, with numerous people asking if there are ways they can help. Is there a charity I can refer them too that's doing specifically relevant work?

    @NickPalmer: this article lists some of the charities which are trying to help in Afghanistan.

    https://thetab.com/uk/2021/08/16/this-is-how-to-show-support-and-help-for-those-in-afghanistan-219107
    Thanks.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,858
    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,612
    edited August 17
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some alt history speculation from one of the Bush insiders.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bin-laden-2001-end-war-afghanistan/619767/
    Had the United States caught and killed Osama bin Laden in December 2001, the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would have faded away almost immediately afterward. I cannot prove that. It’s only an opinion from my vantage point as one of President George W. Bush’s speechwriters in 2001 and 2002.

    Yet I strongly believe it. The U.S. stayed for 20 years in Afghanistan because first Bush and then his successors got trapped in a pattern of responding to past failures by redoubling future efforts…

    It's interesting because I distinctly remember a shift c.2004-6 towards nation building in Afghanistan and I remember thinking "oh dear". Has anyone asked Biden if he encouraged Obama to withdraw 12 years ago?
    I don't know if he went as far as withdrawal but he opposed the surge and argued for a narrower mission targeted on Al Qaeda. Other notable stances were opposing the intervention in Libya (right in hindsight), and the Bin Laden raid (wrong in hindsight) and advocating partitioning Iraq (WTF).

    See this piece, written from the point of view of the military-industrial blob. There's a paywall but you can get the text of it if you do a sprightly ctrl-a ctrl-c before the page finishes loading.
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/12/biden-military-support-afghanistan-generals/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    What utter rubbish, indeed the polling evidence is most Tory voters agreed with me that Rashford should focus more on politics and less on football as did the vast majority of my fellow Tory members I discussed it with. Indeed an actual Tory MP made a less tactful remark on Rashford and is still very much a Tory MP.

    All this shows is how little you understand the Tory Party now. TSE 'the acting mod' of course not only is no longer a Tory member he even votes LD now so doesn't really get Boris' Tory Party either.

    However while Labour are my opponents you and your fellow Scottish Nationalists are my enemy so the more I wind you up the better
    You are just such a ridiculous advert for the conservative party with your attitude to Marcus Rashford, who by any comparison is the very antithesis to you, and by the way has not made any of his interventions political, unlike Lineker and Gary Neville, and while Labour and the SNP are parties I do not agree with calling them the enemy is just sad

    Indeed my membership of the conservative party provides me with an opportunity in a small way to vote for the next leader, but to be honest your attitudes and posts are as good a commentary for me to consider letting my membership lapse, if I thought you were more than just a part of the right wing element of the party

    And for fairness I do think @StuartDickson went to far in his personal comments to you this morning and I agree with @OldKingCole that you do not give the impression that you 'hate' anyone.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,194
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
    After a few minutes you can’t delete anything on PB.
    Butd you can ask for postings to be deleted, or a moderator does it.
    It might be an idea if a moderator had a look at the temperature of some of the current discussion.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,673
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
    After a few minutes you can’t delete anything on PB.
    Butd you can ask for postings to be deleted, or a moderator does it.
    Do you seriously think that happened here, that there’s a conspiracy to cover up one of his comments?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,500
    My god, this site has really descended into a depressing Scottish Nat echo chamber

    Seriously, the tone of debate coming from the usual suspects really does demean the overall quality of this page.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,506
    malcolmg said:

    Joyous & Civic:

    Just watched Auschwitz on TV. Only place ever affected me the way Culloden does. Both represent the attempt to exterminate a people & their culture. Names at Culloden my family names. Nameless at Auchwitz belong to all of us. Unfortunately world has learned little

    https://twitter.com/JimFairlie/status/1427374156128063490?s=20

    Was't Culloden mainly Scots on Scots?
    Another Scotch expert appears, perhaps in your mind 3 out of 17 battalions was mainly Scots right enough and led by that famous Scot Butcher Cumberland son of the English King.
    Didn't claim to be an expert and asked a question. Seems a fair few on the government side were scots (The Highland Battalion), but clearly not the majority.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,250
    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    It seems to be the way off refugee's mostly young and male.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.

    Ironically I was just 11 in 1955 when I built 11 canoes (for the newly formed canoe club) and 2 GP14 sailing dinghies, with my father assisting, using evo stick glue and marine ply.

    The smell of evo stick has remained with me all my life
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 258

    Good morning, everyone.

    Finally got around to reading The Machine Stops, a novella by EM Forster. Can't recommend it enough, despite being released in 1909 the dystopian story of a society degraded by dependence on technology feels incredibly relevant and, unlike some comparable books, it's very easy to read and not a slog *cough*1984/BraveNewWorld*cough* at any point.

    This book was the last book my book group read pre the 1st Covid lockdown. Little did we realise how our lives would soon mirror the life shown in the novella.

    (Not sure I agree about 1984 and Brave New World being a hard slog. I read them both when I was in my mid teens).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,719
    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    Probably not many women amongst the forces fighting the Taliban up till last week, against whom reprisals might be taken. But yes, for some, women don't count.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,350
    Ms. Mc, I will say they're not hard slogs throughout but I do remember portions of them dragging badly (unlike Animal Farm, or The Machine Stops).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,961
    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.

    A cold war and space race also works wonders for the state of innovation, but with many fewer casualties.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,350
    Mr. Z, congratulations.

    Are you planning to seek refuge in France?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,858

    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    Probably not many women amongst the forces fighting the Taliban up till last week, against whom reprisals might be taken. But yes, for some, women don't count.
    Woman journalists and politicians have gone into hiding. There are reports of Taliban gangs searching through homes looking for any unmarried girl over the age of 12 and also reports of "rape gangs". Of course, there should have been more women on those planes.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,719
    OT there's a typo in the Amazon job advert I've just been shown. You'd think that with his money, Jeff Bezos could hire a proofreader or two rather than trust all to automation.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.

    Ironically I was just 11 in 1955 when I built 11 canoes (for the newly formed canoe club) and 2 GP14 sailing dinghies, with my father assisting, using evo stick glue and marine ply.

    The smell of evo stick has remained with me all my life
    I have just had my 60th birthday. My present to myself was a wooden dinghy which is 4 or 5 years older than I am.
    Is it clinker built but no matter enjoy your sailing
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,687

    Mr. Z, congratulations.

    Are you planning to seek refuge in France?

    I did read about someone who regularly crossed the channel in a similar dinghy (11 ft long!) to save the ferry fare.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,440
    Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

    Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

    The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,687
    The good news: new thread
    The bad news: unpostableto
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,473
    SandraMc said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Finally got around to reading The Machine Stops, a novella by EM Forster. Can't recommend it enough, despite being released in 1909 the dystopian story of a society degraded by dependence on technology feels incredibly relevant and, unlike some comparable books, it's very easy to read and not a slog *cough*1984/BraveNewWorld*cough* at any point.

    This book was the last book my book group read pre the 1st Covid lockdown. Little did we realise how our lives would soon mirror the life shown in the novella.

    (Not sure I agree about 1984 and Brave New World being a hard slog. I read them both when I was in my mid teens).
    It was also made as an episode of the sixties and seventies anthology series, out of the unknown. It’s a really good piece of TV
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,403

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some alt history speculation from one of the Bush insiders.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bin-laden-2001-end-war-afghanistan/619767/
    Had the United States caught and killed Osama bin Laden in December 2001, the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would have faded away almost immediately afterward. I cannot prove that. It’s only an opinion from my vantage point as one of President George W. Bush’s speechwriters in 2001 and 2002.

    Yet I strongly believe it. The U.S. stayed for 20 years in Afghanistan because first Bush and then his successors got trapped in a pattern of responding to past failures by redoubling future efforts…

    It's interesting because I distinctly remember a shift c.2004-6 towards nation building in Afghanistan and I remember thinking "oh dear". Has anyone asked Biden if he encouraged Obama to withdraw 12 years ago?
    I don't know if he went as far as withdrawal but he opposed the surge and argued for a narrower mission targeted on Al Qaeda. Other notable stances were opposing the intervention in Libya (right in hindsight), and the Bin Laden raid (wrong in hindsight) and advocating partitioning Iraq (WTF).

    See this piece, written from the point of view of the military-industrial blob. There's a paywall but you can get the text of it if you do a sprightly ctrl-a ctrl-c before the page finishes loading.
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/12/biden-military-support-afghanistan-generals/
    Yes, he's not just tagging along with the prevailing "no more middle eastern entanglements" sentiment, he has form in taking that position.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    Probably not many women amongst the forces fighting the Taliban up till last week, against whom reprisals might be taken. But yes, for some, women don't count.
    Woman journalists and politicians have gone into hiding. There are reports of Taliban gangs searching through homes looking for any unmarried girl over the age of 12 and also reports of "rape gangs". Of course, there should have been more women on those planes.
    It is just dreadful and we owe it to those women and children to provide safe passage out of Afghanistan
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,687

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.

    Ironically I was just 11 in 1955 when I built 11 canoes (for the newly formed canoe club) and 2 GP14 sailing dinghies, with my father assisting, using evo stick glue and marine ply.

    The smell of evo stick has remained with me all my life
    I have just had my 60th birthday. My present to myself was a wooden dinghy which is 4 or 5 years older than I am.
    Is it clinker built but no matter enjoy your sailing
    marine ply and glue!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,969
    New thread
    HOW STARMER WOULD LIKELY BECOME PM IF BRITAIN VOTED IN LINE WITH THE LATEST REDFIELD POLL
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,488
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    I am reminded of his assertion tout court a week or so back that, to my clear recollection*, "Scots don't count" [obviously in the context of the UK polity, else it'd be 'can't']. I queried that at the time as it denied any Scot any role in the democracy of the UK, even such upstanding Tories as David L [edit: invoked her eonly as an example: he was not part of the discussion].

    Obviously the LEAST unfortunate explanation is that HYUFD really meant "MPs for Scottish constituencies can be ignored in the current Tory majority situation as far as I am concerned". But that is nonsense as we have several SCUP MPs. If he is being so sloppy with wording and logic ... and he did not, so far as I know, take the opportunity I offered him for a reverse ferret.

    *I have just checked back and that conversation appears to have been deleted. The PB search engine is picking up words I know I used, but not that conversation itself.
    Scots only count as part of the UK, not alone, as confirmed by their 55% vote to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    You didn't say that.

    You said they don't count at all.
    Prove it?
    Because you've (presumably: edit) deleted the [edit] postings.
    After a few minutes you can’t delete anything on PB.
    Butd you can ask for postings to be deleted, or a moderator does it.
    Do you seriously think that happened here, that there’s a conspiracy to cover up one of his comments?
    It's happened before, though more on the mod's initiative than anything else. But I'd have screenshotted it if I thought that was at all likely.

    But in any case I cannot substantiate that quotation - brain failure on my part. I owe HYUFD an unreserved apology for misquoting him.

    What he did say, however, was "Scots' opinion of Boris is irrelevant." Whcih has the same burden and which I queried twice at the time, without fruit.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3518947#Comment_3518947
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3519180#Comment_3519180
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.

    Ironically I was just 11 in 1955 when I built 11 canoes (for the newly formed canoe club) and 2 GP14 sailing dinghies, with my father assisting, using evo stick glue and marine ply.

    The smell of evo stick has remained with me all my life
    I have just had my 60th birthday. My present to myself was a wooden dinghy which is 4 or 5 years older than I am.
    Is it clinker built but no matter enjoy your sailing
    marine ply and glue!
    As were my GP14s
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,868
    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    Not notable, entirely predictable.

    The fundamental sexism of Afghanistan's men is always there.

    Which leads to this question:

    How do you integrate Afghan male 'refugees' into western societies ?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,440

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’.

    So there's a beneficial side effect of total war.

    Ironically I was just 11 in 1955 when I built 11 canoes (for the newly formed canoe club) and 2 GP14 sailing dinghies, with my father assisting, using evo stick glue and marine ply.

    The smell of evo stick has remained with me all my life
    I have just had my 60th birthday. My present to myself was a wooden dinghy which is 4 or 5 years older than I am.
    Is it clinker built but no matter enjoy your sailing
    Maybe it is because I was a rubbish sailor so I couldn't enjoy the finer detail, but anything that doesn't scare the willies out of you I didn't think was worth doing. Catamarans for me (safe but scary). As far as yachts are concerned it is 99% boring and 1% of you might well die. Done the round the island race once as crew and enjoyed it though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,950
    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’....

    Really more the early 60s for the masses ?
    I sailed one of these when I was a kid;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_(dinghy)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,961
    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    On the plane pictures, it’s noticable that the women are at the front of the plane.

    What likely happened, is that they let the women on first, then filled the plane up with those already milling around the airport - who were indeed overwhelmingly men.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,790

    New thread
    HOW STARMER WOULD LIKELY BECOME PM IF BRITAIN VOTED IN LINE WITH THE LATEST REDFIELD POLL

    Not working though for posts.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 938
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    hmmm a quick thought on afghanistan and future places like it

    What if the uk were to make sure we had troops left to secure the airport and said "We will take all female refugees that want to come". Leaving afghanistan with hopefully a large female deficit. The lysistrata move of foreign relations so to speak

    Notable that in the films of Kabul or pictures of those on the planes how few women there are.
    On the plane pictures, it’s noticable that the women are at the front of the plane.

    What likely happened, is that they let the women on first, then filled the plane up with those already milling around the airport - who were indeed overwhelmingly men.
    My understanding was that the people on the planes had already been cleared for evacuation by the US?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,361
    Morning all :)

    When looking at the Canadian Election, we mustn't forget the huge importance of Ontario. Of the 338 ridings (constituencies), 121 are in that province.

    Half the Liberal MPs are in Ontario - last time Trudeau's party won 41.5% of the vote, the Conservatives 33% and the NDP 17% and the seats split Liberals 79, Conservatives 36, NDP 6.

    The Forum poll (which puts the Conservatives three points up nationally) has Conservative 34, Liberal 31 and NDP 18 so that's a 5.5% swing to the Conservatives. The seat projection from the Forum poll has the Conservatives nationally on 140 (+19) with the Liberals on 126 (-31).

    Mainstreet, which has a three point Liberal lead, has the Liberals on 40% in Ontario with the Conservatives on 24.5% and the NDP on 23%.

    The other key area is Quebec which brings 78 ridings to the table so that's 200 of the 338 from just two provinces. Last time the Liberals won 34.3% and 35 seats with BQ on 32.4% and 32 seats.

    The first two polls are wildly divergent in the main battleground so clearly there's a lot going on to be resolved.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    edited August 17

    New thread
    HOW STARMER WOULD LIKELY BECOME PM IF BRITAIN VOTED IN LINE WITH THE LATEST REDFIELD POLL

    Trying to post gets

    Data too long for column 'Name' at row 1|Gdn_Database|Query|insert `GDN_Discussion` (`InsertUserID`, `DateInserted`, `DateUpdated`, `CategoryID`, `ForeignID`, `Type`, `Name`, `Body`, `Format`, `Attributes`) values (:InsertUserID, :DateInserted, :DateUpdated, :CategoryID, :ForeignID, :Type, :Name, :Body, :Format, :Attributes)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,087
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Test

    Mr. Z, aye, I forgot the copyright stuff probably meant there'd be a free version somewhere. Still, 72p isn't the end of the world.

    King Cole, it's one of the things I find fascinating, just how basic items being made easily has utterly transformed the world. Videos on rope-making and books like Jeffrey L. Singman's The Middle Ages (Everyday Life) highlight an unspoken but enormous gulf between modern times and the distant past. Things just cost a fortune. The average person in the 13th century, say, only had two full sets of clothes. But labour was incredibly cheap.

    It does make me smile, remembering of the Milibandit youth tweeting from his iPad about his poverty.

    I read somewhere that up until about 1935 or so your average 14thC British peasant could have been fast forwarded to the 20thC and been able to work on a farm, since many, if not most of the implements used to have been familiar. Threshing machines would have been the only exceptions.

    Interestingly it was about then that my farmer grandfather was, apparently, persuaded to buy his first tractor.
    Even in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up on a farm there were a lot of jobs that would have been the same, except the pitchforks had metal tines rather than wood. I’m not sure that there was a huge difference between the educational standards of a 14th century peasant and those of some of the people in the town I grew up in either…
    The differences, I take it, would have been especially in animal breeds and plant cultivars, and the use of imported fertiliser rather than home grown middens?
    The plough shapes would have been a revelation to the medievals.....
    And steel rather than wood (and a bit of iron) for the business end, I presume, and Clydesdales or shires rather than oxen. But the basic point is there - the work would have been essentially the same.
    The shapes were much more efficient - the medieval plough were massively limited by the load they put on the animals pulling them. The more modern designs gave deeper *and* easier ploughing.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,790
    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic:

    I was listening to R5L during my drive to this morning's run (A beautiful dawn saunter around Sandy Heath, in and around the transmitter), and Dotun Adebayo interviewed an academic who clamed that the cost of 'levelling up' the north of the UK would be about the same as German reunification; that we would have to spend about the same amount Germany has.

    It seems a little off to me: is the disparity between the north and south (say Bolton and Crawley) the same as between (say) Dresden and Bremen in 1989, per capita ?

    (I don't know enough about Germany to pick equivalent cities.)

    The gap between

    New thread
    HOW STARMER WOULD LIKELY BECOME PM IF BRITAIN VOTED IN LINE WITH THE LATEST REDFIELD POLL

    Trying to post gets

    Data too long for column 'Name' at row 1|Gdn_Database|Query|insert `GDN_Discussion` (`InsertUserID`, `DateInserted`, `DateUpdated`, `CategoryID`, `ForeignID`, `Type`, `Name`, `Body`, `Format`, `Attributes`) values (:InsertUserID, :DateInserted, :DateUpdated, :CategoryID, :ForeignID, :Type, :Name, :Body, :Format, :Attributes)
    fixed now

    so

    New Thread

  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,673
    Pulpstar said:

    New thread
    HOW STARMER WOULD LIKELY BECOME PM IF BRITAIN VOTED IN LINE WITH THE LATEST REDFIELD POLL

    Trying to post gets

    Data too long for column 'Name' at row 1|Gdn_Database|Query|insert `GDN_Discussion` (`InsertUserID`, `DateInserted`, `DateUpdated`, `CategoryID`, `ForeignID`, `Type`, `Name`, `Body`, `Format`, `Attributes`) values (:InsertUserID, :DateInserted, :DateUpdated, :CategoryID, :ForeignID, :Type, :Name, :Body, :Format, :Attributes)
    Perhaps try not posting gobbledygook? ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    When looking at the Canadian Election, we mustn't forget the huge importance of Ontario. Of the 338 ridings (constituencies), 121 are in that province.

    Half the Liberal MPs are in Ontario - last time Trudeau's party won 41.5% of the vote, the Conservatives 33% and the NDP 17% and the seats split Liberals 79, Conservatives 36, NDP 6.

    The Forum poll (which puts the Conservatives three points up nationally) has Conservative 34, Liberal 31 and NDP 18 so that's a 5.5% swing to the Conservatives. The seat projection from the Forum poll has the Conservatives nationally on 140 (+19) with the Liberals on 126 (-31).

    Mainstreet, which has a three point Liberal lead, has the Liberals on 40% in Ontario with the Conservatives on 24.5% and the NDP on 23%.

    The other key area is Quebec which brings 78 ridings to the table so that's 200 of the 338 from just two provinces. Last time the Liberals won 34.3% and 35 seats with BQ on 32.4% and 32 seats.

    The first two polls are wildly divergent in the main battleground so clearly there's a lot going on to be resolved.

    There is a chance if it is almost neck and neck in Ontario, the Liberals will only remain largest party thanks to a big lead still over the Tories in Quebec, in the rest of Canada the Conservatives would clearly have more seats than the Liberals
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 5,584
    Carnyx said:

    Test

    Mr. Z, aye, I forgot the copyright stuff probably meant there'd be a free version somewhere. Still, 72p isn't the end of the world.

    King Cole, it's one of the things I find fascinating, just how basic items being made easily has utterly transformed the world. Videos on rope-making and books like Jeffrey L. Singman's The Middle Ages (Everyday Life) highlight an unspoken but enormous gulf between modern times and the distant past. Things just cost a fortune. The average person in the 13th century, say, only had two full sets of clothes. But labour was incredibly cheap.

    It does make me smile, remembering of the Milibandit youth tweeting from his iPad about his poverty.

    I read somewhere that up until about 1935 or so your average 14thC British peasant could have been fast forwarded to the 20thC and been able to work on a farm, since many, if not most of the implements used to have been familiar. Threshing machines would have been the only exceptions.

    Interestingly it was about then that my farmer grandfather was, apparently, persuaded to buy his first tractor.
    Even in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up on a farm there were a lot of jobs that would have been the same, except the pitchforks had metal tines rather than wood. I’m not sure that there was a huge difference between the educational standards of a 14th century peasant and those of some of the people in the town I grew up in either…
    The differences, I take it, would have been especially in animal breeds and plant cultivars, and the use of imported fertiliser rather than home grown middens?
    The actual farming was very different, but there were (and probably still are) jobs to do on a farm that a 14th C peasant could have easily got on with.

    Ploughing and spreading fertiliser would not have been amongst them though.
  • sealo0sealo0 Posts: 48
    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    All getting a bit heated here.

    Here's a genuinely interesting snippet I read this morning in an interview with Robin Knox Johnson

    "Boatbuilding

    The great era of home-boat-building was the 1950s, when the use of glues developed in the war for wooden aircraft, like the Mosquito, suddenly spread out and we had this great ‘do it yourself’ thing.

    That’s really when sailing went from being a wealthy person’s sport to an ‘any person sport’....

    Really more the early 60s for the masses ?
    I sailed one of these when I was a kid;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_(dinghy)
    Hi

    My father build Enterprise #13 in 1957 or 1958 in our lounge at home. Mother was not best pleased until we got a new carpet. Only problem was that it was too big to go out of the french door on it's beam, so we had to have new patio doors as well!!
    Sealo0
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,482

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Germany has been far too welcoming to refugees lads have pivoted.

    At least Germany have been consistent.

    They disagreed with Cameron's plan to airlift the most vulnerable refugees out of the refugee camps preferring a policy that led directly to thousands dying trying to reach Europe and now they are refusing to help out with airlifting refugees out of Kabul, preferring to let them die at the hands of the Taliban.
    Merkel and Reinfeldt had inner principles and morality. Cameron didn’t.

    Yes, Germany and Sweden made mistakes, but - to be old-fashioned about it - they were acting as good Christians. To err is human.

    England has caused countless tragedies throughout the world, and left it to other, better nations to clear up their mess.
    Hmmm. I might remind you of Germany's fairly recent past wrt 'countless tragedies', and I doubt the Sami people would say Sweden has been prefect.

    And Scotland was very complicit in some of the crime you probably place upon the 'English'. A lot of Glasgow's wealth came from the slave trade, for instance.
    The jingo bells always get round to blaming it on the Scots, never fails.
    Because ultimately everything is blamed on the English.

    Where’s the evidence that Scotland has “attoned for its sins”?
    What sins, they were mere tools of the English overlords and had little option, or else they were the lickspittle arse licking helpers of the same running the colony for them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,482
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The House of Saud aren't AQ or IS.

    They're worse.

    You are a complete moron then
    Nope. In the moron stakes you easily out-class Philip.

    I disagree with Philip on lots of things, but I reluctantly agree that he is bloody good. He has the knowledge and he has the arguments.

    You on the other hand are a classic moron. You misunderstand, you misrepresent, you often fail to answer straight questions, you sometimes talk gibberish and you unwittingly let things slip. Your only use is as an example of all that is foul about the Conservative Party. And the cherry on the cake is that you are a thug, always sticking up for the biggest bullies in any given scenario. Trump, PP, DUP, the Saudis, the Catalonian solution to the Scottish problem of hitting old ladies at polling stations, the list is endless.

    The reason you hate Philip is that he is a better man than you.

    I used to read an awful lot of Dilbert. In my mind’s eye, you are the Pointy-haired Boss. I bet your work colleagues can’t stand you.
    Good morning everyone. Where has the summer gone? Down to 12.4 degC this am, and thick, unbroken, cloud.

    Mr D you have, I'm afraid, gone far too far over the top. Yes, my fellow Essex resident can be a PIA, and yes, he can pick on the wrong, or unimportant, part of a discussion but I don't get the impression that he 'hates' anyone.

    So I know it's a bad morning, a dreadful morning, for a lot of people today, but surely we can try to be at least moderately pleasant to each other.
    I’m sorry. I did rather go too far there.

    Unfortunately, there is good evidence that HYUFD does indeed “hate” Philip and other posters. He also displayed raw hatred on the night when England won the silver medal in the European Championship, which has been screenshot and the acting mod considered would hinder him from ever being a prospective parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party. These are serious matters.

    Where I went too far is in calling him the Pointy-haired Boss. That was unforgivable. Nobody in real life can be *that* big a moron. I’m sure FUDHY’s colleagues think he’s adorable. And his mum loves him. And the gerbil.
    What utter rubbish, indeed the polling evidence is most Tory voters agreed with me that Rashford should focus more on politics and less on football as did the vast majority of my fellow Tory members I discussed it with. Indeed an actual Tory MP made a less tactful remark on Rashford and is still very much a Tory MP.

    All this shows is how little you understand the Tory Party now.

    However while Labour are my opponents you and your fellow Scottish Nationalists are my enemy so the more I wind you up the better
    That spiel shows that I understand you and your English Nationalist Party all too well.

    I used to think SLab were a dirty bunch, but (George Galloway excluded) they aren’t a patch on you. You are not my enemy. I pity you.

    By the way, you never explained, why did you call Philip “a complete moron”?
    Do you ever explain why you are rude to people ?

    Or make crass offensive comments. ‘Jolly imperial jape’ indeed.
    Lot of cry babies on here, good at giving it out but turn into blubbering wrecks when they get some of their own medicine. Get a backbone cry babies.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,482

    malcolmg said:

    Joyous & Civic:

    Just watched Auschwitz on TV. Only place ever affected me the way Culloden does. Both represent the attempt to exterminate a people & their culture. Names at Culloden my family names. Nameless at Auchwitz belong to all of us. Unfortunately world has learned little

    https://twitter.com/JimFairlie/status/1427374156128063490?s=20

    Was't Culloden mainly Scots on Scots?
    Another Scotch expert appears, perhaps in your mind 3 out of 17 battalions was mainly Scots right enough and led by that famous Scot Butcher Cumberland son of the English King.
    Didn't claim to be an expert and asked a question. Seems a fair few on the government side were scots (The Highland Battalion), but clearly not the majority.
    No problem , it was just patently wrong , but now we know it was only a small part of 2 lowland and one highland battalions out of at least 17.
This discussion has been closed.