"They brought in the explosives by truck," he says. "Then we carried them on our back or in our arms to the statues, or we tied big bombs to long sticks to carry them to the site."
"Working in the cold air of the early spring of 2001, he says the men were prepared for death at any moment, either in a blast or at the hands of the guards.
""Once I witnessed one of the men who had a bad leg and couldn't carry the explosives any more," he says. "The Taliban shot him on the spot and gave the body to another prisoner to dispose of.""
This is the force now taking Kabul. Nazis, basically.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
Why would they take 50.1% now when they think they will get 51% next year, 52% the following year, 53% the year after that etc ?
The trend seems to be towards the unionists, which is why you nats want a referendum asap.
Taliban spokesman on BBC news. Chilling, got to feel for the people of Afghanistan, especially women.
What did he/she/they say ?
Most of the questioning by the presenter is centered on women (and rightly so they will be the ones likely to suffer most under Taliban rule), whether they will be losing their freedoms like education, able to leave their houses alone, clothing they can wear etc.
The spokesman said women will have access to education, but reports on the ground are they have already stopped that. The Hijab will be enforced.
Islamic rules and law and courts will be imposed. Presenter tried to get answers on whether they are going back to stoning, public executions and amputations will be coming back, spokesman says the courts will decide and impose the law.
Question around if the Taliban will allow people to leave freely, spokesman said they don't want people to leave. The Islamic state will need them. Calling on people to stay.
Taliban spokesman on BBC news. Chilling, got to feel for the people of Afghanistan, especially women.
We were listening to some poor female film director in Kabul. She was absolutely distraught. Literally terrified. It was so distressing my mother asked me to switch the radio off. Just before I got to the switch the Kabul lady said she was facing a new holocaust.
You have to wonder whether this isn't going to end up being Cambodia all over again.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
I thought I was boring, but FUDHY really does take the biscuit.
Taliban spokesman on BBC news. Chilling, got to feel for the people of Afghanistan, especially women.
What did he/she/they say ?
Most of the questioning by the presenter is centered on women (and rightly so they will be the ones likely to suffer most under Taliban rule), whether they will be losing their freedoms like education, able to leave their houses alone, clothing they can wear etc.
The spokesman said women will have access to education, but reports on the ground are they have already stopped that. The Hijab will be enforced.
Islamic rules and law and courts will be imposed. Presenter tried to get answers on whether they are going back to stoning, public executions and amputations will be coming back, spokesman says the courts will decide and impose the law.
Question around if the Taliban will allow people to leave freely, spokesman said they don't want people to leave. The Islamic state will need them. Calling on people to stay.
Morning all, so on topic, someone it'd be nice to not have to talk about, but we're sadly not there yet, Donald Trump.
With few exceptions a rational adult acting rationally will get vaccinated against Covid if it's available to them. They'll do it for themselves and for the wider community. Both selfishly and altruistically it's a slam dunk of a decision not meriting more than a moment's hesitation. It's a (literal) no brainer.
One person who knows this is the aforesaid Donald Trump and he acted accordingly. He got the jab that a big chunk of his base, those many millions of 'not the brightest but not necessarily terrible' people who look up to him, are shunning. A chance here then, you'd have thought, for him to have an impact - a benign one for a change. It wouldn't take much effort. Just put a clear message out there in that trademark dumbed down and oddly effective syntax that the vaccine is safe, and everybody should do the right thing and get it. He could even, if he wanted, slip in some boasting about how this silver bullet with pandemic ending potential was created on his watch. Go Donald. Do something good. Just this once. It won't kill you. You won't even get a rash.
But no. In typical 'right wing populist pissing on the patio' style he sees benefit to himself in pushing the chips in precisely the opposite direction. He weighs it all up and decides to make the situation worse. He comes out with this:
"People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his (Biden's) Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth."
Let's help the virus kill more Americans, why the fuck not.
We're not short of things to illustrate why this ghastly human being mustn't get anywhere near the White House again, but here is one more.
'Take the vaccine and you can burn your mask' might be an effective policy.
The US focus on masks rather than vaccines seems strange here.
alex thomson @alextomo 3m Taiiban spokesman- calling for national unity No security threat to anyone in Kabul. Women will be educated and allowed to work so long as their heads are covered
Yes, I don't believe a word of this. The Taliban has not changed, the same ways Nazis could not change
For comparison, the Khmer Rouge made similar noises as they entered Phnom Penh - conciliatory, peaceful, calming - because of course they wanted as little resistance as possible. Some of the citizens even welcomed them.
I know a French photographer, Roland Neveu, who was one of very few journalists who stayed in the Cambodian capital throughout the Khmer Rouge takeover - he got a series of iconic shots of the chaos.
He told me he started the day as a communist, and ended it hating communism, as he saw the real intentions of the Khmer Rouge: driving the citizens into the countryside, blowing up the shops and banks, shooting all the artists and intellectuals (and then many many others)
I fear the Taliban reconquest will be a slow motion version of that. They will start off reasonably docile (by their standards) but they will soon revert to their standard horrific brutality
The UK must do its fair share and take a large number of Afghanistan's refugees. We must not let Patel's ridiculous rhetoric get in the way, who is going to oppose such an action?
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
You know the conspiracy theory that Trump won?
I wonder if we that expect that view to emerge from places other than just the depths of the populist right, from here on in.
It is difficult to interpret that collection of words, but if you are suggesting that other than the really true nutters think Trump won the answer is no. What camp are you in?
Of course if you look at the polls, almost half of America thinks Trump won, with a chunk of the rest 'unsure'.
Hate to be picky but since you're making claims about polling which is what we do here, the actual number is a little over half of *Republicans*, ie a quarter of America:
About one-quarter of adults believe the Nov. 3 election was tainted by illegal voting, including 56% of Republicans, according to the poll. The figures were roughly the same in a poll that ran from Nov. 13-17 which found that 28% of all Americans and 59% of Republicans felt that way.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
Why would they take 50.1% now when they think they will get 51% next year, 52% the following year, 53% the year after that etc ?
The trend seems to be towards the unionists, which is why you nats want a referendum asap.
I love a true believer. You guys are solid gold.
You really think that all English people are unionists don't you.
Gotta love the first six words in this Tweet “Say what you like about the Taliban, at least the trains ran on time”
Roshan M Salih @RmSalih Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
Jesus Christ that guy's Twitter feed. And he's a British Muslim. Odious
It's annoying how people like this are only able to say what they like because of Western notions of free speech that are mostly non-existent in other parts of the world.
alex thomson @alextomo 3m Taiiban spokesman- calling for national unity No security threat to anyone in Kabul. Women will be educated and allowed to work so long as their heads are covered
Yes, I don't believe a word of this. The Taliban has not changed, the same ways Nazis could not change
For comparison, the Khmer Rouge made similar noises as they entered Phnom Penh - conciliatory, peaceful, calming - because of course they wanted as little resistance as possible. Some of the citizens even welcomed them.
I know a French photographer, Roland Neveu, who was one of very few journalists who stayed in the Cambodian capital throughout the Khmer Rouge takeover - he got a series of iconic shots of the chaos.
He told me he started the day as a communist, and ended it hating communism, as he saw the real intentions of the Khmer Rouge: driving the citizens into the countryside, blowing up the shops and banks, shooting all the artists and intellectuals (and then many many others)
I fear the Taliban reconquest will be a slow motion version of that. They will start off reasonably docile (by their standards) but they will soon revert to their standard horrific brutality
I went to Cambodia a few years ago; I wouldn't wish to hear the tales I was told, or see the sights, again. Horrific. Piles of bones and skulls.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Gotta love the first six words in this Tweet “Say what you like about the Taliban, at least the trains ran on time”
Roshan M Salih @RmSalih Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
Jesus Christ that guy's Twitter feed. And he's a British Muslim. Odious
It's annoying how people like this are only able to say what they like because of Western notions of free speech that are mostly non-existent in other parts of the world.
Why is it annoying? Shouldn't you and Tobes Young be applauding this marvellous example of free speech?
"They brought in the explosives by truck," he says. "Then we carried them on our back or in our arms to the statues, or we tied big bombs to long sticks to carry them to the site."
"Working in the cold air of the early spring of 2001, he says the men were prepared for death at any moment, either in a blast or at the hands of the guards.
""Once I witnessed one of the men who had a bad leg and couldn't carry the explosives any more," he says. "The Taliban shot him on the spot and gave the body to another prisoner to dispose of.""
This is the force now taking Kabul. Nazis, basically.
Not Nazis. Like IS - certainly in their approach to non-Islamic cultures (destroying them) and women (sexual slaves) and the imposition of sharia law.
That is what the US has let happen. Perhaps it could not have been otherwise. I don't know. But regardless of whether the Taliban allow terrorist training camps in the country, this Taliban victory will inspire and embolden Islamist terrorists everywhere.
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
Have a bit of a moan, say they are worried and do absolutely nothing.
Don't be ridiculous. There is lots to do, huge amounts of blame and responsibility to be avoided, narratives to set etc. They certainly would not want to look completely ineffectual and pointless, would they?
Gotta love the first six words in this Tweet “Say what you like about the Taliban, at least the trains ran on time”
Roshan M Salih @RmSalih Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
Jesus Christ that guy's Twitter feed. And he's a British Muslim. Odious
It's annoying how people like this are only able to say what they like because of Western notions of free speech that are mostly non-existent in other parts of the world.
Annoying - yes. But instructive also. It is not new his view. Seem to recall that there were people saying much the same when the Khomeinin government started attacking women's rights in Iran as soon as it got into power.
Worth remembering when the same people start going on about women's rights here. They don't really believe in them.
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
They'll either be discussing what to do about British citizens still in the country and effective hostages or why Britain cannot possibly provide asylum to Afghan refugees, not even those Afghans who worked for it. Or both. It will be a festival of impotent sound and fury.
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
Have a bit of a moan, say they are worried and do absolutely nothing.
Don't be ridiculous. There is lots to do, huge amounts of blame and responsibility to be avoided, narratives to set etc. They certainly would not want to look completely ineffectual and pointless, would they?
I'll bet you the non-mortgaged portion of my house that the phrase 'lessons will/should be learned' will rear its ugly head.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
They'll either be discussing what to do about British citizens still in the country and effective hostages or why Britain cannot possibly provide asylum to Afghan refugees, not even those Afghans who worked for it. Or both. It will be a festival of impotent sound and fury.
If we abandon these refugees the Government deserves to be unpopular and never be elected again. Despicable behaviour but I bet it is already on Priti Useless Patel's mind
Afghanistan is looking to be an absolute catastrophe.
I am aghast. And yet, outside of us political geeks and enthusiasts, it is largely passing with a decadent shrug of the shoulders.
You what?
It's the lead news on BBC, Sky, CNN, Fox, NYT, and very prominent on CBS, MSNBC, etc
Well, of course it is. But this is the old world. Because most people get their news elsewhere, to the extent that they watch the news at all; it just passes them by and they switch off from it. Thats the problem with the plurality of media arising from the Internet: the situation is not a suez or a saigon or even a 9/11 because it isn't in peoples faces and they can choose to switch off from it.
I doubt there will be any candlelit vigils or protests about what is going on in Afghanistan.
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
They'll either be discussing what to do about British citizens still in the country and effective hostages or why Britain cannot possibly provide asylum to Afghan refugees, not even those Afghans who worked for it. Or both. It will be a festival of impotent sound and fury.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
It does seem the US government had absolutely no idea about Afghanistan beyond the poshos and troughers of central Kabul.
As a military fiasco this is way, way beyond South Vietnam.
South Vietnam lasted over two years from the withdrawal of US forces and only fell to a proper invasion by an outside army.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
Have a bit of a moan, say they are worried and do absolutely nothing.
Don't be ridiculous. There is lots to do, huge amounts of blame and responsibility to be avoided, narratives to set etc. They certainly would not want to look completely ineffectual and pointless, would they?
I'll bet you the non-mortgaged portion of my house that the phrase 'lessons will/should be learned' will rear its ugly head.
Possible lessons:
(1) Attempting to impose western values on countries that have a culture that is deeply inimical to them is doomed to failure. (2) The money and resources spent on being embedded and building up domestic forces who have no interest in fighting for said values is completely wasted and the activity is delusional. (3) Pakistan is not our friend. Not even close to being a friend. (4) Modern softy democracies are not capable of sustaining a war effort that produces material numbers of body bags over an extended period (which may or may not be a good thing).
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
They'll either be discussing what to do about British citizens still in the country and effective hostages or why Britain cannot possibly provide asylum to Afghan refugees, not even those Afghans who worked for it. Or both. It will be a festival of impotent sound and fury.
If we abandon these refugees the Government deserves to be unpopular and never be elected again. Despicable behaviour but I bet it is already on Priti Useless Patel's mind
The reality is that they have just abandoned the state that they have built up in Afghanistan; why wouldn't they do the same to the refugees?
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
They'll either be discussing what to do about British citizens still in the country and effective hostages or why Britain cannot possibly provide asylum to Afghan refugees, not even those Afghans who worked for it. Or both. It will be a festival of impotent sound and fury.
If we abandon these refugees the Government deserves to be unpopular and never be elected again. Despicable behaviour but I bet it is already on Priti Useless Patel's mind
The reality is that they have just abandoned the state that they have built up in Afghanistan; why wouldn't they do the same to the refugees?
Isn’t the point that there was not and never was a state?
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
Have a bit of a moan, say they are worried and do absolutely nothing.
Don't be ridiculous. There is lots to do, huge amounts of blame and responsibility to be avoided, narratives to set etc. They certainly would not want to look completely ineffectual and pointless, would they?
I'll bet you the non-mortgaged portion of my house that the phrase 'lessons will/should be learned' will rear its ugly head.
Possible lessons:
(1) Attempting to impose western values on countries that have a culture that is deeply inimical to them is doomed to failure. (2) The money and resources spent on being embedded and building up domestic forces who have no interest in fighting for said values is completely wasted and the activity is delusional. (3) Pakistan is not our friend. Not even close to being a friend. (4) Modern softy democracies are not capable of sustaining a war effort that produces material numbers of body bags over an extended period (which may or may not be a good thing).
(5) The people you meet in the city centres may not be typical of a country as a whole.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
I've been watching the airport in Kabul on Flightradar. About an hour ago an emirates plane from dubai failed to land, presumably sent back on the instructions of the americans. A flight just took off to Islamabad. I'm wondering if thats going to be the last one out.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
When the next poll out shows American support for withdrawing from Afghanistan has increased I will dub the PB reaction as BDS.
Politics by opinion polls? I thought that’s what people on here criticised Boris Johnson for?
It's a horrible approach and Biden has clearly fucked it with Afghanistan but the point is to highlight the rank hypocrisy of people supporting the latest Boris move with "but he's popular".
And America should take its fair share too, not just the UK, want to make that absolutely clear
I don't think there will be many refugees. Afghanistan will seal itself off - like Cambodia in 1975. Only those lucky few who flee now will get out, and maybe some people who can smuggle themselves over the border
There won't be a mass exodus, the Taliban won't allow it. There are already shots of the Taliban taking control of border crossings
"LATEST: Officials say Taliban now hold all of Afghanistan's border crossings, leaving Kabul airport as only route out, @AP"
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, sorry to disappoint you: the CH-46 and CH-47 look similar with a rotor at each end, but are quite different types. Look at the wheels in the Saigon photo in the threadf you posted - 3 undercarriage legs; a Chinook or Wokka has four, one at each corner (and is generally longer and more shoeboxy).
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, one's a Sea Knight (been in one, noisy as fuck) and one's a Chinook (been in one, noisy as fuck but Blair was in it so at least we couldn't hear him). The famous Saigon photo is a UH-1H (flown one, handles beautifully but not exactly a torque monster).
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, sorry to disappoint you: the CH-46 and CH-47 look similar with a rotor at each end, but are quite different types. Look at the wheels in the Saigon photo in the threadf you posted - 3 undercarriage legs; a Chinook or Wokka has four, one at each corner (and is generally longer and more shoeboxy).
"The Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight is a medium-lift tandem-rotor transport helicopter powered by twin turboshaft engines. It was designed by Vertol and .... Developed into: Boeing CH-47 CHINOOK"
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, sorry to disappoint you: the CH-46 and CH-47 look similar with a rotor at each end, but are quite different types. Look at the wheels in the Saigon photo in the threadf you posted - 3 undercarriage legs; a Chinook or Wokka has four, one at each corner (and is generally longer and more shoeboxy).
"The Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight is a medium-lift tandem-rotor transport helicopter powered by twin turboshaft engines. It was designed by Vertol and .... Developed into: Boeing CH-47 CHINOOK"
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, sorry to disappoint you: the CH-46 and CH-47 look similar with a rotor at each end, but are quite different types. Look at the wheels in the Saigon photo in the threadf you posted - 3 undercarriage legs; a Chinook or Wokka has four, one at each corner (and is generally longer and more shoeboxy).
"The Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight is a medium-lift tandem-rotor transport helicopter powered by twin turboshaft engines. It was designed by Vertol and .... Developed into: Boeing CH-47 CHINOOK"
Parliament to be recalled...to do what exactly? Invade?
If parliament was nt recalled you'd be screaming for it to be done.. like yesterday.
Having problems with your keyboard felix? Maybe try not mashing your head into it
Hit the nerve though didn't it? What will Keir say? Safe haven for the entire Afghan people in Hartlepool? Send the SAS to Kabul while Britain stands alone? Let me guess - neither! Maybe 'lessons need to be learned - there must be a full judge-led inquiry'...... or maybe he won't turn up as there is no point..according to you.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
The Saigon building was later taken over by Petrovietnam. American oil men used to love going up on that roof. Was never quite sure why....
Good morning's work from England. Pant is still to come of course but you don't see many of the other Indian batsmen rattling up the scoreboard with Virat gone.
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, sorry to disappoint you: the CH-46 and CH-47 look similar with a rotor at each end, but are quite different types. Look at the wheels in the Saigon photo in the threadf you posted - 3 undercarriage legs; a Chinook or Wokka has four, one at each corner (and is generally longer and more shoeboxy).
"The Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight is a medium-lift tandem-rotor transport helicopter powered by twin turboshaft engines. It was designed by Vertol and .... Developed into: Boeing CH-47 CHINOOK"
That's like saying that the Hawker Fury was developed into the Hawker Hurricane. The relationship is obvious, but for sure they're not the same.
It's close enough for me to claim victory over Dura Ace in the great PB US Embassy Roof Iconic Fleeing Chinook Helicopter Photo War. I just hope he doesn't now get on his Kawasaki 30CC scooter and drive off a Scottish cliff in his impotent rage
The American security services are pretty rubbish aren't they. They thought it would take 18 months for this to happen, if it happened at all, according to BBC News.
When the next poll out shows American support for withdrawing from Afghanistan has increased I will dub the PB reaction as BDS.
Politics by opinion polls? I thought that’s what people on here criticised Boris Johnson for?
It's a horrible approach and Biden has clearly fucked it with Afghanistan but the point is to highlight the rank hypocrisy of people supporting the latest Boris move with "but he's popular".
It's probably right to throw shit at politicians for completely misreading this since it's their actual job to read this, but since most on here (including me) have barely expressed an opinion on Afghanistan for years, a bit of self-aware restraint might be in order. In this case I'd say we have exactly the politicians we deserve. I do have to wonder what intel the geniuses at the CIA and the Pentagon were feeding Biden.
"KABUL, Afghanistan — As the Taliban stood at the gates of Kabul, completing the near total takeover of Afghanistan two decades after the American military drove them from power, a chaotic and frenzied evacuation of U.S. diplomats and civilians kicked into high gear on Sunday.
Helicopter after helicopter — including massive Chinooks with their twin engines and speedy Black Hawks that had been the workhorse of the grinding war — touched down and then took off loaded with passengers. Some dispensed flares overhead, a new addition to Kabul’s skyline."
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
Incredibly, they seem to be using the exact same model of Chinook helicopter, to do the whole US embassy roof cutting-and-running thing
Saigon was a UH-1H. Kabul was a CH-47D. Stick to reviewing salads.
lol. I will bow to your superior knowledge on helicopters, so fair enough.
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
I think the confusion may be that the last helicopter was the one with the Marines guards, leaving from the grounds - it is a CH-46 Sea Knight by the way, not the similarly configured CH-47 - once the last had left from the roof (which was the famous photo, and [edit] a Huey UH-1, of course).The CH-46 still survives, apparently:
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
No, sorry to disappoint you: the CH-46 and CH-47 look similar with a rotor at each end, but are quite different types. Look at the wheels in the Saigon photo in the threadf you posted - 3 undercarriage legs; a Chinook or Wokka has four, one at each corner (and is generally longer and more shoeboxy).
"The Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight is a medium-lift tandem-rotor transport helicopter powered by twin turboshaft engines. It was designed by Vertol and .... Developed into: Boeing CH-47 CHINOOK"
That's like saying that the Hawker Fury was developed into the Hawker Hurricane. The relationship is obvious, but for sure they're not the same.
It's close enough for me to claim victory over Dura Ace in the great PB US Embassy Roof Iconic Fleeing Chinook Helicopter Photo War. I just hope he doesn't now get on his Kawasaki 30CC scooter and drive off a Scottish cliff in his impotent rage
Except the CH-46 has only THREE sets of landing gear to the CH-47's FOUR sets!
Stick to the effete, namby-pamby restaurant reviews!
Taliban advance 'will not change US plans' A US official has said there will be "no change" to US plans to complete its troop pull-out by mid-September, despite recent developments which have seen the Taliban breach the capital Kabul in just 10 days.
The unnamed official told the Reuters news agency that the US would only react if the Taliban interfered with their plans to evacuate embassy staff; the administration has previously warned of "a swift and strong US military response" if US personnel are put at risk by Taliban actions."
Rory Stewart hit the nail squarely on the head this morning.
The withdrawal of air support was the nail in the coffin for the Afghan National Army and Government. It would have been much harder for the Taliban to advance if they faced the kind of air assault the US, UK and others can muster.
Yet the Afghan Air Force has supposedly 180 aircraft which is I suspect is 180 more than the Taliban though the latter have (I presume) anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal.
The fact remains a well-equipped modern army has disintegrated in just five weeks and whatever vitriol you want to hurl at Biden, the questions remains why no one has tried to fight for Ghani and the anti-Taliban forces.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
Just think of it as a post covid normalisation. We are back to our old feuds.
Rory Stewart hit the nail squarely on the head this morning.
The withdrawal of air support was the nail in the coffin for the Afghan National Army and Government. It would have been much harder for the Taliban to advance if they faced the kind of air assault the US, UK and others can muster.
Yet the Afghan Air Force has supposedly 180 aircraft which is I suspect is 180 more than the Taliban though the latter have (I presume) anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal.
The fact remains a well-equipped modern army has disintegrated in just five weeks and whatever vitriol you want to hurl at Biden, the questions remains why no one has tried to fight for Ghani and the anti-Taliban forces.
I'm guessing the "Taliban advance" is down to many districts merely swapping sides?
Rory Stewart hit the nail squarely on the head this morning.
The withdrawal of air support was the nail in the coffin for the Afghan National Army and Government. It would have been much harder for the Taliban to advance if they faced the kind of air assault the US, UK and others can muster.
Yet the Afghan Air Force has supposedly 180 aircraft which is I suspect is 180 more than the Taliban though the latter have (I presume) anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal.
The fact remains a well-equipped modern army has disintegrated in just five weeks and whatever vitriol you want to hurl at Biden, the questions remains why no one has tried to fight for Ghani and the anti-Taliban forces.
Indeed. Why should Americans or Brits risk their lives against Stinger missiles if Afghans are not minded to?
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
Just think of it as a post covid normalisation. We are back to our old feuds.
The afternoon thread is about Scotland.
You can all thank me now or on that when it is published.
I also have at least 4 Scotland threads in the pipeline for when Mike is on holiday.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
Just think of it as a post covid normalisation. We are back to our old feuds.
The afternoon thread is about Scotland.
You can all thank me now or on that when it is published.
I also have at least 4 Scotland threads in the pipeline for when Mike is on holiday.
I don't know if this was picked up yesterday but a fascinating INSA poll from Germany:
Changes on 2017 Bundestag election
Union CDU/CSU: 25% (-8) Social Democrats: 20% (-1) Greens: 18% (+9) Free Democrats: 12% (+1) Alternative for Germany: 11% (-2) Left: 7% (-2) Others 4% Free Voters 3%
The recovery of the SPD has been remarkable and we could yet see Olaf Scholz, the current Finance Minister, get the top job. I suspect the FDP would be quite happy to support Scholz who advocates no new debt and limited public spending. The question is whether Scholz could hold together an SPD-FDP-Green Coalition which would theoretically be at or close to a majority.
"Defence Committee chairman Tobias Ellwood said it was a humiliation for the West."
Really? What a perceptive chap. But yeah, we're talking about p*ssing squillions of quid up the wall fighting a war that it was impossible to win, on a foreign country's say-so, and then at the moment of final defeat not even being able to withdraw in orderly fashion. The responsibility for that last failure must surely lie with Boris Johnson who has been PM for two years, easily long enough to withdraw calmly and without panic. But given that he couldn't be bothered, quite possibly by this time tomorrow there will be a POW issue: "release prisoners you're holding in Guantanamo and Diego Garcia and we'll release the prisoners we took in Kabul who couldn't grab on to the helicopter skids in time." (Clue: do the f***ing deal. Much better to do the deal than have videos circulate of British embassy staff getting their heads cut off because you didn't.)
"Despite the decision of the Biden administration to withdraw the remaining US troops which triggered the collapse, Mr Ellwood said it was still not too late to turn the situation around.
He called for the despatch of the Royal Navy carrier strike group to the region and urged the Prime Minister to convene an emergency conference of "like-minded nations" to see what could be done."
What a maniac. Carpet-bombing on the way out of the door, huh? Remind me how that worked in Vietnam and Kampuchea. The only military issue now for Britain is the evacuation.
Rory Stewart hit the nail squarely on the head this morning.
The withdrawal of air support was the nail in the coffin for the Afghan National Army and Government. It would have been much harder for the Taliban to advance if they faced the kind of air assault the US, UK and others can muster.
Yet the Afghan Air Force has supposedly 180 aircraft which is I suspect is 180 more than the Taliban though the latter have (I presume) anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal.
The fact remains a well-equipped modern army has disintegrated in just five weeks and whatever vitriol you want to hurl at Biden, the questions remains why no one has tried to fight for Ghani and the anti-Taliban forces.
The unpalatable truth for many in the west is that the issues with which hands are wrung here clearly are not of much potency in the country itself. It is ironic to me that many are wailing about the plight of Afghan women without the west to protect their freedom. Is that not just a modern update to 'civilising the heathens' of an earlier age. I sympathise with HYUFD today, of all people, but at least he's consistent.
Rory Stewart hit the nail squarely on the head this morning.
The withdrawal of air support was the nail in the coffin for the Afghan National Army and Government. It would have been much harder for the Taliban to advance if they faced the kind of air assault the US, UK and others can muster.
Yet the Afghan Air Force has supposedly 180 aircraft which is I suspect is 180 more than the Taliban though the latter have (I presume) anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal.
The fact remains a well-equipped modern army has disintegrated in just five weeks and whatever vitriol you want to hurl at Biden, the questions remains why no one has tried to fight for Ghani and the anti-Taliban forces.
Indeed. Why should Americans or Brits risk their lives against Stinger missiles if Afghans are not minded to?
To defend ourselves from a jihadi nation exporting terror. As happened before
I predict that within 5 years we will be bombing Afghanistan again. Not invading, but bombing, yes
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
Just think of it as a post covid normalisation. We are back to our old feuds.
The afternoon thread is about Scotland.
You can all thank me now or on that when it is published.
I also have at least 4 Scotland threads in the pipeline for when Mike is on holiday.
Poor Leon, broiling in the east Med sun, biting his fingers and dying to have his tuppence worth.
When the next poll out shows American support for withdrawing from Afghanistan has increased I will dub the PB reaction as BDS.
Politics by opinion polls? I thought that’s what people on here criticised Boris Johnson for?
It's a horrible approach and Biden has clearly fucked it with Afghanistan but the point is to highlight the rank hypocrisy of people supporting the latest Boris move with "but he's popular".
It's probably right to throw shit at politicians for completely misreading this since it's their actual job to read this, but since most on here (including me) have barely expressed an opinion on Afghanistan for years, a bit of self-aware restraint might be in order. In this case I'd say we have exactly the politicians we deserve. I do have to wonder what intel the geniuses at the CIA and the Pentagon were feeding Biden.
Indeed, and where is Johnson for comment at the moment? Is he on holiday too?
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
Just think of it as a post covid normalisation. We are back to our old feuds.
The afternoon thread is about Scotland.
You can all thank me now or on that when it is published.
I also have at least 4 Scotland threads in the pipeline for when Mike is on holiday.
Mike being on holiday inevitably means political events will spiral out of control and you never get to use them....
The MP for Leeds NW’s response to footage of Leeds fans singing “Sancho & Rashford let the country down” at Old Trafford yesterday. A bit much to call for supporters to be banned for that I think, this is tame stuff
‘An absolute disgrace I hope @LUFC bans these people as they are no supporters of the club’
Deary me.. people are getting sensitive. You should have listened to what went on in the 70s and 80s. This really is tame by comparison... ir might not be nice but you will never stop it.
I find this an interesting argument given that, as you say, we have stopped what went on in the 70s and 80s. Leaving aside whether it is right, football clubs clearly are capable of policing their fans' behaviour to a reasonably significant extent.
Yes, clubs do police their fans behaviour and, currently, it seems they do so in a reasonable way.
But do you really think banning these people for this song is justified in any way, shape or form ?
Over a harmless chant. If they were making monkey noises or racist chanting then they should be banned. The fans caught on film fighting in Manchester yesterday, largely posted on Twitter, should be banned. A ban for This song. No way.
So is there a difference from what the Leeds fans did and singing ‘you’re sh*t and you know you are’? Seems an odd one. Perhaps we should be singing ‘you’re still very good but not quite as good as my team, please don’t take offence’...
Perhaps the FA can approve all Chants before fans are allowed to sing them ?
The referees a wanker being replaced with the referee practises acts of self love. As an example.
I see @NikitaBassi123, who works directly for Nicola Sturgeon, has quickly deleted her tweet suggesting Scotland is colonised and subject to ‘British rule’ just like India was.
These views are abhorrent and I hope the ignorance on display in that tweet is reflected on.
Scots came into India as writers, traders, engineers, missionaries, tea and indigo planters, jute traders and teachers. By 1771 almost half of the East India Company's writers were Scots.
The Scottish presence was also strongly evident in India. The first three Governor-Generals of India were Scots. When Henry Dundas became President of the Board of Control in 1784 he ‘Scoticised’ India and through his agencies Scots came to dominate the activities of the East India Company (EIC). By 1792, Scots made up one in nine EIC civil servants, six in eleven common soldiers and one in three officers.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
Just think of it as a post covid normalisation. We are back to our old feuds.
The afternoon thread is about Scotland.
You can all thank me now or on that when it is published.
I also have at least 4 Scotland threads in the pipeline for when Mike is on holiday.
The future of Scotland, a comparison to the pineapple pizza divide?
"Defence Committee chairman Tobias Ellwood said it was a humiliation for the West."
Really? What a perceptive chap. But yeah, we're talking about p*ssing squillions of quid up the wall fighting a war that it was impossible to win, on a foreign country's say-so, and then at the moment of final defeat not even being able to withdraw in orderly fashion. The responsibility for that last failure must surely lie with Boris Johnson who has been PM for two years, easily long enough to withdraw calmly and without panic. But given that he couldn't be bothered, quite possibly by this time tomorrow there will be a POW issue: "release prisoners you're holding in Guantanamo and Diego Garcia and we'll release the prisoners we took in Kabul who couldn't grab on to the helicopter skids in time." (Clue: do the f***ing deal. Much better to do the deal than have videos circulate of British embassy staff getting their heads cut off because you didn't.)
"Despite the decision of the Biden administration to withdraw the remaining US troops which triggered the collapse, Mr Ellwood said it was still not too late to turn the situation around.
He called for the despatch of the Royal Navy carrier strike group to the region and urged the Prime Minister to convene an emergency conference of "like-minded nations" to see what could be done."
What a maniac. Carpet-bombing on the way out of the door, huh? Remind me how that worked in Vietnam and Kampuchea. The only military issue now for Britain is the evacuation.
I don't demur with much of your analysis., but that's an interestingly fierce critique of a US military/presidential decision, from a senior Tory
He's basically saying Biden has humiliated the West. Which is true, but from an unexpected source
Comments
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31813681
"They brought in the explosives by truck," he says. "Then we carried them on our back or in our arms to the statues, or we tied big bombs to long sticks to carry them to the site."
"Working in the cold air of the early spring of 2001, he says the men were prepared for death at any moment, either in a blast or at the hands of the guards.
""Once I witnessed one of the men who had a bad leg and couldn't carry the explosives any more," he says. "The Taliban shot him on the spot and gave the body to another prisoner to dispose of.""
This is the force now taking Kabul. Nazis, basically.
The spokesman said women will have access to education, but reports on the ground are they have already stopped that. The Hijab will be enforced.
Islamic rules and law and courts will be imposed. Presenter tried to get answers on whether they are going back to stoning, public executions and amputations will be coming back, spokesman says the courts will decide and impose the law.
Question around if the Taliban will allow people to leave freely, spokesman said they don't want people to leave. The Islamic state will need them. Calling on people to stay.
The US focus on masks rather than vaccines seems strange here.
For comparison, the Khmer Rouge made similar noises as they entered Phnom Penh - conciliatory, peaceful, calming - because of course they wanted as little resistance as possible. Some of the citizens even welcomed them.
I know a French photographer, Roland Neveu, who was one of very few journalists who stayed in the Cambodian capital throughout the Khmer Rouge takeover - he got a series of iconic shots of the chaos.
He told me he started the day as a communist, and ended it hating communism, as he saw the real intentions of the Khmer Rouge: driving the citizens into the countryside, blowing up the shops and banks, shooting all the artists and intellectuals (and then many many others)
I fear the Taliban reconquest will be a slow motion version of that. They will start off reasonably docile (by their standards) but they will soon revert to their standard horrific brutality
Your ignorance is solid gold.
It's the lead news on BBC, Sky, CNN, Fox, NYT, and very prominent on CBS, MSNBC, etc
Biden: "There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States from Afghanistan."
That is what the US has let happen. Perhaps it could not have been otherwise. I don't know. But regardless of whether the Taliban allow terrorist training camps in the country, this Taliban victory will inspire and embolden Islamist terrorists everywhere.
Worth remembering when the same people start going on about women's rights here. They don't really believe in them.
I doubt there will be any candlelit vigils or protests about what is going on in Afghanistan.
As a military fiasco this is way, way beyond South Vietnam.
South Vietnam lasted over two years from the withdrawal of US forces and only fell to a proper invasion by an outside army.
Anyone want to try and justify this?
(1) Attempting to impose western values on countries that have a culture that is deeply inimical to them is doomed to failure.
(2) The money and resources spent on being embedded and building up domestic forces who have no interest in fighting for said values is completely wasted and the activity is delusional.
(3) Pakistan is not our friend. Not even close to being a friend.
(4) Modern softy democracies are not capable of sustaining a war effort that produces material numbers of body bags over an extended period (which may or may not be a good thing).
But they do look awfully similar here:
https://twitter.com/bswagspeare/status/1426872670851792901?s=20
However they look so similar I wonder if that Saigon photo is faked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LMH0f2CpL8
Game on.
There won't be a mass exodus, the Taliban won't allow it. There are already shots of the Taliban taking control of border crossings
"LATEST: Officials say Taliban now hold all of Afghanistan's border crossings, leaving Kabul airport as only route out,
@AP"
https://twitter.com/business/status/1426803252524367872?s=20
AHA. In your face, Dura Ace, you stupid creepy suicidal antivaxxing motorpervert weirdo
Developed into: Boeing CH-47 CHINOOK"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Vertol_CH-46_Sea_Knight
2001: 22 million
2021: 40 million
Or Austin?
I do have to wonder what intel the geniuses at the CIA and the Pentagon were feeding Biden.
Helicopter after helicopter — including massive Chinooks with their twin engines and speedy Black Hawks that had been the workhorse of the grinding war — touched down and then took off loaded with passengers. Some dispensed flares overhead, a new addition to Kabul’s skyline."
NYTimes blog
Stick to the effete, namby-pamby restaurant reviews!
I wonder how many kids that generation will have.
Similar demographics in much of the third world.
Not going to end well.
Or likely start well or go well in the middle either.
Taliban advance 'will not change US plans'
A US official has said there will be "no change" to US plans to complete its troop pull-out by mid-September, despite recent developments which have seen the Taliban breach the capital Kabul in just 10 days.
The unnamed official told the Reuters news agency that the US would only react if the Taliban interfered with their plans to evacuate embassy staff; the administration has previously warned of "a swift and strong US military response" if US personnel are put at risk by Taliban actions."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-58219963
Rory Stewart hit the nail squarely on the head this morning.
The withdrawal of air support was the nail in the coffin for the Afghan National Army and Government. It would have been much harder for the Taliban to advance if they faced the kind of air assault the US, UK and others can muster.
Yet the Afghan Air Force has supposedly 180 aircraft which is I suspect is 180 more than the Taliban though the latter have (I presume) anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal.
The fact remains a well-equipped modern army has disintegrated in just five weeks and whatever vitriol you want to hurl at Biden, the questions remains why no one has tried to fight for Ghani and the anti-Taliban forces.
You can all thank me now or on that when it is published.
I also have at least 4 Scotland threads in the pipeline for when Mike is on holiday.
Changes on 2017 Bundestag election
Union CDU/CSU: 25% (-8)
Social Democrats: 20% (-1)
Greens: 18% (+9)
Free Democrats: 12% (+1)
Alternative for Germany: 11% (-2)
Left: 7% (-2)
Others 4%
Free Voters 3%
The recovery of the SPD has been remarkable and we could yet see Olaf Scholz, the current Finance Minister, get the top job. I suspect the FDP would be quite happy to support Scholz who advocates no new debt and limited public spending. The question is whether Scholz could hold together an SPD-FDP-Green Coalition which would theoretically be at or close to a majority.
"Defence Committee chairman Tobias Ellwood said it was a humiliation for the West."
Really? What a perceptive chap. But yeah, we're talking about p*ssing squillions of quid up the wall fighting a war that it was impossible to win, on a foreign country's say-so, and then at the moment of final defeat not even being able to withdraw in orderly fashion. The responsibility for that last failure must surely lie with Boris Johnson who has been PM for two years, easily long enough to withdraw calmly and without panic. But given that he couldn't be bothered, quite possibly by this time tomorrow there will be a POW issue: "release prisoners you're holding in Guantanamo and Diego Garcia and we'll release the prisoners we took in Kabul who couldn't grab on to the helicopter skids in time." (Clue: do the f***ing deal. Much better to do the deal than have videos circulate of British embassy staff getting their heads cut off because you didn't.)
"Despite the decision of the Biden administration to withdraw the remaining US troops which triggered the collapse, Mr Ellwood said it was still not too late to turn the situation around.
He called for the despatch of the Royal Navy carrier strike group to the region and urged the Prime Minister to convene an emergency conference of "like-minded nations" to see what could be done."
What a maniac. Carpet-bombing on the way out of the door, huh? Remind me how that worked in Vietnam and Kampuchea. The only military issue now for Britain is the evacuation.
I predict that within 5 years we will be bombing Afghanistan again. Not invading, but bombing, yes
It will be informative and profitable for those who listen.
These views are abhorrent and I hope the ignorance on display in that tweet is reflected on.
https://twitter.com/JohnFerry18/status/1426859853226684416?s=20
Scots came into India as writers, traders, engineers, missionaries, tea and indigo planters, jute traders and teachers. By 1771 almost half of the East India Company's writers were Scots.
The Scottish presence was also strongly evident in India. The first three Governor-Generals of India were Scots. When Henry Dundas became President of the Board of Control in 1784 he ‘Scoticised’ India and through his agencies Scots came to dominate the activities of the East India Company (EIC). By 1792, Scots made up one in nine EIC civil servants, six in eleven common soldiers and one in three officers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish-Indian
Russia invading the rest of Ukraine seems inevitable from the 28th of August onwards.
He's basically saying Biden has humiliated the West. Which is true, but from an unexpected source