With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
Didn't Boris also say he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea?
He had no choice to get a trade deal with the EU as the EU held the key hand on that.
On indyref2 Boris holds the key hand, not Sturgeon, under the Scotland Act 1998
The Tories told us that they “held all the cards”.
The Scottish nation hold the key hand, not any single politician. The Tories are playing with fire here.
They will hold us prisoner as long as possible, desperate to shout about freedom for any country in the world, wailing and gnashing of teeth over Afghanistan, but allow democracy in Scotland , NO way. Tories are an abomination, selfish greedy, jingoistic and desperate.
"Yet searing, anonymously sourced quotes kept appearing throughout the [presidential] race. One Democrat who spoke to Obama recalled the former president saying 'never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up'"
Like it or not, this is falling on Biden. And HYUFD is right, this will define the administration's foreign policy as a failure: end of. And if this causes terror attacks on the USA, it will mean the Republicans probably win in 2024
To all those saying this is as much Trump's fault as it is Biden's, a crucial factor in any sort of conflict or negotiating situation is working out how far the other side is prepared to go. This is why no one fucks with the Chinese or Russians, the fear from the other side is that they will take it to Defcom 1. And it was the same with Trump to a certain degree. No one knew exactly what he would do and how far he would take it. Cast aside your TDS goggles and look at what happened globally when Trump was President and compare with Obama and now Biden. The Russians were quiet in the Ukraine, the Chinese didn't push things in Taiwan, the Iranians didn't go nuts and so forth. They didn't because they were wary of Trump.
These people are not scared of Biden. His card is marked already. He is seen as weak and incapable. Nobody is thinking that a Biden-led America is going to come down hard on them. He has not got the guts nor strength of character to do so. He is a career politician, with 50 years of being part of the establishment.
It's doubtful what we are seeing now with Afghanistan would have happened with Trump. Yes he signed the agreement but there was also a realisation that he would never have left the Taliban just come in and take over the country. The moment that looked as though it would have happened, they would have broken the Doha accords and let rip.
Biden is weak. He deserves totally to take the blame for this.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
I think HYUFD and Dickson are an AI set up by Leon to argue with one another as an experiment. No two actual humans could possibly have the boredom threshold to argue with one another repeating the same points over and over and over again ad infinitum.
On topic, inconvenient facts for those who seek to criticise Florida policy. (not really a low vaxx state in any case).
High vaccination states Oregon and Hawaii are struggling with an explosion in covid cases.
Sure but we have loads of cases too. It is deaths, and to a lesser degree hospitalisations that are down, to about 10% of the winter wave.
Though still quite a pressure on hospitals. Mrs Foxy is press ganged back on ICU again this week. She couldn't sleep last night because of the stress of going back.
I am of the view now that the only option is a massive increase of funding for the NHS. This is very much a personal view but I’d be far happier to pay more in taxes to avoid putting people like Mr and Mrs Foxy back into this horrible situation than having to remain stuck at home to do so.
It is not just funding. We do not train anything like enough doctors and nurses. That needs to change, especially now given the shrinking pool of immigrants we rely on to fill the gaps. We also need to acknowledge that spare capacity is needed and not simply a waste of resources.
Yes, staffing is the issue. On top of Annual leave (much of it deferred from earlier in the year because of covid pressure) we have 57 WTE vacancies on ICU, a mix of unfillable posts, maternity leave and long term sick. We have 21 current ICU/ECMO patients, many from out of area, compared with 83 at the February peak.
I have never seen morale so low amongst our nurses and HCAs, not helped by patients giving them abuse because they have been told that things are back to normal. Routine and specialist stuff is repeatedly cancelled.
On more serious matters, how much difference is vaccination making to the actual patients who come in? I've lost track a bit but presumably there are so many cases that some vaccinated people are being hospitalised anyway.
Yes, the gif was on my clipboard, I didn't mean to post it on this thread.
The ICU cases are all unvaxxinated, some with good reason, the admissions are more 50/50.
Hopefully HYUFD is out there in his little tank, valiantly trying to hold back the Taliban hordes from entering Kabul!
If I was in charge I would never have withdrawn the troops in the first place
Are you going to resign from the Conservative Party in protest at the support given by the British Government to the American Government’s decision?
I stand with Tory MPs from Tobias Ellwood to Tom Tugenhadt who are appalled at this withdrawal, although to be fair to Boris once the US withdrew it was unrealistic for the UK to stay alone. The fault lies with Biden.
Kudos to the LDs too who have attacked Biden's withdrawal as condemning the Afghans to medieval barbarity and us to the return of terrorism
Davey is a proper liberal in the Gladstone and Ashdown mode, prepared to intervene abroad where needed.
The old wet, pacifist social democratic LDs of Charles Kennedy is now thankfully dead for now
Funny how you're solely firing your ire at Biden and have not a word to say about Trump who signed a Treaty committing the USA to withdrawing this year (which Biden has honoured).
Nor to Trump releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners.
Nor George W Bush for letting the Taliban retreat and get safe harbour in Pakistan from which they could regroup.
I wonder why solely Biden gets criticism? 🤔
It was George W Bush who toppled the Taliban in the first place and removed Al Qaeda from the country and forced Bin Laden to Pakistan where US special forces were able to kill him.
As for Trump, I have said Romney would be far better than him or Biden as President now and Romney has opposed the withdrawal.
However even Trump has a few sound words today 'Former President Trump slammed President Biden Saturday for not “following the plan” the former administration left for him regarding withdrawal from Afghanistan.
“He ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him—a plan that protected our people and our property, and ensured the Taliban would never dream of taking our Embassy or providing a base for new attacks against America. The withdrawal would be guided by facts on the ground,” Trump said in a statement.
“After I took out ISIS, I established a credible deterrent. That deterrent is now gone. The Taliban no longer has fear or respect for America, or America’s power,” he added.'
“This is complete failure through weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence,” Trump said. “What a disgrace it will be when the Taliban raises their flag over America’s Embassy in Kabul.”
If Kabul falls Trump will begin his campaign to return to the White House in 2024 the day after mark my words, presenting himself as Reagan after Carter and the humiliation of the Iran hostages
The people who really 'took out' ISIS were the Kurds and the Iraqi army though, surely.
That region seems to have a strong spine of anti-islamism that is sadly lacking in Afghanistan.
As usual, the Kurds were left holding the shitty end of the stick.
I don't think Iraq/Syria are anti-Islam by any manner of means; they're 'just not fundamentalist Moslems. The situation is akin to having the Puritans of 17th C New England or the Holy Inquisition of Spain in control.
Which of the Puritans and the Inquisition play the role of not fundamentalist in your analogy?
From the safety of the 21st C, I would say they were both as bad as each other. I would not like to have lived under Puritan rule in New England, nor would I have felt safe as a Spaniard when the Inquisition were about. Since I tend not to have particularly 'on message' opinions. In all sorts of ways.
I think HYUFD and Dickson are an AI set up by Leon to argue with one another as an experiment. No two actual humans could possibly have the boredom threshold to argue with one another repeating the same points over and over and over again ad infinitum.
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Yes, a dreadful day.
Humiliation for the White House and the US and indeed the entire West.
Likely return of Afghanistan to being a failed state full of jihadi terrorist camps.
Glee in Moscow and Beijing as the US is at its weakest internationally for over 100 years, indeed even weaker than at the fall of Saigon as North Vietnam did not pose the threat to the West jihadi terrorism did and the USSR then was not as powerful as China is now
Whilst everyone has the same old Indy debates on here, surely the focus should be on the utter humiliation of the USA and the UK in relation to Afghanistan.
What a failure of leadership from both countries - but the Chinese must be looking on in glee at the moment.
More coming their way when Scotland departs the UK
The Taliban could really fuck things up for Johnson and Biden by parking a few HiLuxes on the runway at KBL.
Surely the UK ambassador and the important people are out already? According to google, the plan is for the SAS to evacuate him tomorrow evening. Oops if that really is the case.
The scale of the humiliation is truly astounding, they clearly have to submit to the taliban, just to get their people out.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
Didn't Boris also say he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea?
He had no choice to get a trade deal with the EU as the EU held the key hand on that.
On indyref2 Boris holds the key hand, not Sturgeon, under the Scotland Act 1998
The Tories told us that they “held all the cards”.
The Scottish nation hold the key hand, not any single politician. The Tories are playing with fire here.
They will hold us prisoner as long as possible, desperate to shout about freedom for any country in the world, wailing and gnashing of teeth over Afghanistan, but allow democracy in Scotland , NO way. Tories are an abomination, selfish greedy, jingoistic and desperate.
Agreed.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
Mind you, the greediness and jingoism is a constant.
Different cartridge. 7.62x39 vs 5.65x45. Probably not worth the effort unless they come across millions of rounds somewhere.
And AK's probably still take a hellauva bigger battering from Panjshir Valley dust and snow than M16s. The disparity is I guess smaller now but didn’t grunts in Vietnam initially pick up AK47s when they could cos their M16s had given up the ghost after a drop of rain?
I could believe the story of the SA80... I threw mine into the Shatt al-Arab.
The M16 (and the M4 it begat) is very reliable in all conditions in my experience. The issue with AKs of all types is that their quality is widely variable because they are made in so many places. The Hungarian ones were supposed to be amazing and the Chinese ones get hot and stovepipe after about 10 rounds. The Taliban mainly use Pakistani ones - a mixture of legit license built ones and hand built 'Khyber Pass Copies'.
Sam Freedman @Samfr · 5m What the hell is the point of recalling Parliament so they can bemoan something they can't and won't do anything about? Pointless theatre.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
Didn't Boris also say he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea?
He had no choice to get a trade deal with the EU as the EU held the key hand on that.
On indyref2 Boris holds the key hand, not Sturgeon, under the Scotland Act 1998
The Tories told us that they “held all the cards”.
The Scottish nation hold the key hand, not any single politician. The Tories are playing with fire here.
They will hold us prisoner as long as possible, desperate to shout about freedom for any country in the world, wailing and gnashing of teeth over Afghanistan, but allow democracy in Scotland , NO way. Tories are an abomination, selfish greedy, jingoistic and desperate.
Agreed.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
Mind you, the greediness and jingoism is a constant.
If your point is that the modern tory party has abandoned all principle in the last 18 months then we agree.
The Western media/governments have never understood this. The Afghans were never going to fight their own brothers.
The Taliban don’t seem to have a problem with doing that.
Fundamentalist religious fanatics are frightening. Who was it said 'Kill them all; God will know his own"?
A Christian cleric I believe. I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
Sam Freedman @Samfr · 5m What the hell is the point of recalling Parliament so they can bemoan something they can't and won't do anything about? Pointless theatre.
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Yes, a dreadful day.
Humiliation for the White House and the US and indeed the entire West.
Likely return of Afghanistan to being a failed state full of jihadi terrorist camps.
Glee in Moscow and Beijing as the US is at its weakest internationally for over 100 years, indeed even weaker than at the fall of Saigon as North Vietnam did not pose the threat to the West jihadi terrorism did and the USSR then was not as powerful as China is now
Trumpists contend that the neo-cons, the US military and the CIA are all pro-Biden because he represented a return to the expansionism they love so dearly.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
Didn't Boris also say he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea?
He had no choice to get a trade deal with the EU as the EU held the key hand on that.
On indyref2 Boris holds the key hand, not Sturgeon, under the Scotland Act 1998
The Tories told us that they “held all the cards”.
The Scottish nation hold the key hand, not any single politician. The Tories are playing with fire here.
They will hold us prisoner as long as possible, desperate to shout about freedom for any country in the world, wailing and gnashing of teeth over Afghanistan, but allow democracy in Scotland , NO way. Tories are an abomination, selfish greedy, jingoistic and desperate.
Agreed.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
Mind you, the greediness and jingoism is a constant.
If your point is that the modern tory party has abandoned all principle in the last 18 months then we agree.
Glad you got the gist! Sorry for being a poor communicator. I promise to pull my socks up.
The Western media/governments have never understood this. The Afghans were never going to fight their own brothers.
The Taliban don’t seem to have a problem with doing that.
Fundamentalist religious fanatics are frightening. Who was it said 'Kill them all; God will know his own"?
A Christian cleric I believe. I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
Yes, anent fellow Christians (not that he would agree).
The Western media/governments have never understood this. The Afghans were never going to fight their own brothers.
The Taliban don’t seem to have a problem with doing that.
Fundamentalist religious fanatics are frightening. Who was it said 'Kill them all; God will know his own"?
A Christian cleric I believe. I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
Recall it was played after cinema performances. There was a song about an usherette 'who was killed in the rush for the exit/as the orchestra played The Queen'! And very few people did stand to attention.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Rory Stewart:- Deeply disappointing to hear – on top of everything – that Afghans who received Scholarships from the UK government to study in the UK this year have now been told they will not be granted visas due to "administration issues". Surely someone can sort this out? https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1426558342709891078
Hardly any point now though. There are only about 10 flights out of Afghanistan per day, and of course, they are full (you can only board if you have a negative coronavirus test).
You've got to admire the insanity. Woke governments (of which the US and to a lesser extent the UK are included) are in a performative panic about racism and womens rights; whilst they actively abandon a whole generation of young women to a life of rape and slavery, if they survive at all; in an actual patriarchial hell.
Whilst this is sadly true what is your solution: that we keep fighting?
There is no solution; obviously the problem was in trying to achieve liberal democracy and womens rights by way of regime change, too late now to go back in time and change that. It was more a comment on the obsession with identity politics: as an obsessive and possibly disproportionate amount of effort is spent achieving 'progress' in a small number of western countries, the rest of the world takes giant leaps backwards, and it all largely passes without significant comment or interest outside the old school legacy media.
I agree with you but successive UK governments did pour hundreds of millions into the education of female Afghans in the hope that this would create a more equal society. It's not as if we did nothing. We just failed. But it is undeniable that it puts the obsession with our supposed patriarchy here into perspective.
Perhaps Afghan men should also have been given some education. Because if men do not support women's rights then, no matter what you do for the women, those rights have little chance of lasting.
Isn't the mens' education largely provided by madrassas instilling knowledge of the Koran by incantation?
No, not in areas that have been under government control. The situation has been messy and underfunded, especially for girls, but not dominated by madrassas.
First indications are that it has changed overnight in some areas taken by the Taliban. A return to islamic schooling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58191440 Along with the compete segregation of women.
Back to the medieval state, by the look of it.
Worse than medieval. The medieval world was full of learning and culture. This lot despise both.
Tying together two topics of the week, we are seeing an incel takeover of an entire country today.
Hardly celibate.They'll enslave and rape women to get all the sex they want.
Indeed, but that is the Incel plan too. The combination of polygamy and marriage to older men means a lot of Incels in traditional Islamic societies only now they are in control.
I take your point on Western societies not taking faith seriously as a motivation, though perhaps the USA and Israel should have better insight.
There are a lot of people in the world who feel marginalised, unappreciated, and unserved by their governments and capitalist systems. In the past they inclined to Communism and anti-colonialism as an alternative, but now the only people who seem to provide any support or alternative are the religions. If you want your children fed and educated, the Madrassa is the only place where they are made welcome, cost free and without having to pay bribes.
"Lets do a battlefield assessment of the battle for Kabul. It is an extremely deadly situation for the Americans particularly & their embassy staff. They know the war has been lost & now they only need a day to evacuate their staff & troops....but do they have that ONE day? "
The Western media/governments have never understood this. The Afghans were never going to fight their own brothers.
The Taliban don’t seem to have a problem with doing that.
Fundamentalist religious fanatics are frightening. Who was it said 'Kill them all; God will know his own"?
A Christian cleric I believe. I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
Yes, anent fellow Christians (not that he would agree).
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Please check all the pictures containing traffic lights before posting further.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
Independence should have happened in 2014. It could have easily and workably been achieved whilst the UK was part of the EU - all it really required was some sort of mutually workable agreement over defence and a fudged agreement about money.The border would have been a non issue, because freedom of movement, capital etc was enshrined in the EU - a way could be found for an Independent Scotland to join the EU.
I cannot see it happening now, because Independence means a hard border and the end of freedom of movement. The nationalists will not be able to provide any denials/assurances about this; and they have seen what happened with the UK and EU under Brexit and all the pain that it has caused in Northern Ireland.
Having spent some time in Scotland I just can't believe that Scots will vote for this type of disruption.
How do we know that such things won't happen anyway? The UK government unilaterally abolished the UK customs zone and imposed a customs border between GB and NI. There is nothing stopping them doing the same to Scotland and if they say "we won't do that" its the exact same thing they said to NI.
This is why I keep coming back to just how massive the NI issue is. South of the wall most people don't care. North of the wall its a direct warning for how much you can trust the word of the UK government.
Why would the UK government be inclined to impose a customs border with Scotland, if Scotland votes to stay in the union? Surely it only becomes an issue if Scotland becomes independent.
Why would any UK government propose and then sign a deal which breaks up its own customs zone and excludes a member nation from being able to freely trade inside the UK?
Two posts both saying "unique circumstances" - bullshit. there should have bee *no* circumstances where such a thing would have been agreed. None. A Brexit "win" where we lose the integrity of the United Kingdom is not a win for the UK.
And this is the thing. The integrity of the United Kingdom didn't matter - only the political perspective of England and the Tories mattered. It is a lesson for Scotland.
Different cartridge. 7.62x39 vs 5.65x45. Probably not worth the effort unless they come across millions of rounds somewhere.
And AK's probably still take a hellauva bigger battering from Panjshir Valley dust and snow than M16s. The disparity is I guess smaller now but didn’t grunts in Vietnam initially pick up AK47s when they could cos their M16s had given up the ghost after a drop of rain?
I could believe the story of the SA80... I threw mine into the Shatt al-Arab.
The M16 (and the M4 it begat) is very reliable in all conditions in my experience. The issue with AKs of all types is that their quality is widely variable because they are made in so many places. The Hungarian ones were supposed to be amazing and the Chinese ones get hot and stovepipe after about 10 rounds. The Taliban mainly use Pakistani ones - a mixture of legit license built ones and hand built 'Khyber Pass Copies'.
Yeah, I think sorting out the M16 was one lesson that the US military learned early on from Vietnam. I yield to expert knowledge but I assume that there's still a small advantage when spraying around 7.62 rounds indiscriminately rather than smaller?
Whilst everyone has the same old Indy debates on here, surely the focus should be on the utter humiliation of the USA and the UK in relation to Afghanistan.
What a failure of leadership from both countries - but the Chinese must be looking on in glee at the moment.
More coming their way when Scotland departs the UK
I’d have hoped the situation wouldn’t quite resemble Afghanistan. Mind you, with the SNPs domestic record..
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
"Lets do a battlefield assessment of the battle for Kabul. It is an extremely deadly situation for the Americans particularly & their embassy staff. They know the war has been lost & now they only need a day to evacuate their staff & troops....but do they have that ONE day? "
The Western media/governments have never understood this. The Afghans were never going to fight their own brothers.
The Taliban don’t seem to have a problem with doing that.
Fundamentalist religious fanatics are frightening. Who was it said 'Kill them all; God will know his own"?
A Christian cleric I believe. I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
Yes, anent fellow Christians (not that he would agree).
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
Didn't Boris also say he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea?
He had no choice to get a trade deal with the EU as the EU held the key hand on that.
On indyref2 Boris holds the key hand, not Sturgeon, under the Scotland Act 1998
The Tories told us that they “held all the cards”.
The Scottish nation hold the key hand, not any single politician. The Tories are playing with fire here.
They will hold us prisoner as long as possible, desperate to shout about freedom for any country in the world, wailing and gnashing of teeth over Afghanistan, but allow democracy in Scotland , NO way. Tories are an abomination, selfish greedy, jingoistic and desperate.
Agreed.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
Mind you, the greediness and jingoism is a constant.
If your point is that the modern tory party has abandoned all principle in the last 18 months then we agree.
Glad you got the gist! Sorry for being a poor communicator. I promise to pull my socks up.
Fair enough I undervalued your contribution here, but its strange to see such a good critique coming from a poster with a very different outlook in general.
Gotta love the first six words in this Tweet “Say what you like about the Taliban, at least the trains ran on time”
Roshan M Salih @RmSalih Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
The polling I posted earlier indicated bipartisan support for withdrawal from Afghanistan so it’s probably too early to draw that sort of conclusion.
BiPartisan?
It has united the GOP against Biden for the first time if anything.
From Senator Mitt Romney, the only Republican Senator to vote to impeach Trump 'I understand but disagree with those who felt we should leave Afghanistan; I cannot understand why it has been done with such tragic human cost; without an effective strategy to defend our partners; and with inestimable shock to our nation’s credibility, reliability, and honor' https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1426658988091973633?s=20
To Trump himself 'Former President Trump slammed President Biden Saturday for not “following the plan” the former administration left for him regarding withdrawal from Afghanistan.
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Enjoy it. I am. Hope lies in the ashes of empires.
Your cynicism is unamusing here. The Taliban are pure evil. Life is about to get immeasurably worse for millions of Afghanis, especially women and girls; life is about to end for thousands of them, I suspect
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
The polling I posted earlier indicated bipartisan support for withdrawal from Afghanistan so it’s probably too early to draw that sort of conclusion.
Might be overly cynical, but I suspect the support for withdrawal is conditional on not being shown the consequences. I can think of popular decisions taken by the UK government where that might apply.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
The polling I posted earlier indicated bipartisan support for withdrawal from Afghanistan so it’s probably too early to draw that sort of conclusion.
BiPartisan?
It has united the GOP against Biden for the first time if anything.
From Senator Mitt Romney, the only Republican Senator to vote to impeach Trump 'I understand but disagree with those who felt we should leave Afghanistan; I cannot understand why it has been done with such tragic human cost; without an effective strategy to defend our partners; and with inestimable shock to our nation’s credibility, reliability, and honor' https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1426658988091973633?s=20
To Trump himself 'Former President Trump slammed President Biden Saturday for not “following the plan” the former administration left for him regarding withdrawal from Afghanistan.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
Independence should have happened in 2014. It could have easily and workably been achieved whilst the UK was part of the EU - all it really required was some sort of mutually workable agreement over defence and a fudged agreement about money.The border would have been a non issue, because freedom of movement, capital etc was enshrined in the EU - a way could be found for an Independent Scotland to join the EU.
I cannot see it happening now, because Independence means a hard border and the end of freedom of movement. The nationalists will not be able to provide any denials/assurances about this; and they have seen what happened with the UK and EU under Brexit and all the pain that it has caused in Northern Ireland.
Having spent some time in Scotland I just can't believe that Scots will vote for this type of disruption.
How do we know that such things won't happen anyway? The UK government unilaterally abolished the UK customs zone and imposed a customs border between GB and NI. There is nothing stopping them doing the same to Scotland and if they say "we won't do that" its the exact same thing they said to NI.
This is why I keep coming back to just how massive the NI issue is. South of the wall most people don't care. North of the wall its a direct warning for how much you can trust the word of the UK government.
I hesitate to add whisky to the fire, but the NI situation (stay in the EU) is also a solution many Scots would have liked.
The Western media/governments have never understood this. The Afghans were never going to fight their own brothers.
The Taliban don’t seem to have a problem with doing that.
Fundamentalist religious fanatics are frightening. Who was it said 'Kill them all; God will know his own"?
A Christian cleric I believe. I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
Yes, anent fellow Christians (not that he would agree).
Wouldn't the true modern successor be the Vatican City?
The ultimate beneficiary was the Kingdom of France. I was talking a lot about Vanished Kingdoms yesterday, the Langudoc and the County of Toulouse is a state that could have been, but the Parisian Kings used this “Crusade” to ensure the area is what we now know as Southern France, rather than Occitania, or even Northern Catalonia.
Gotta love the first six words in this Tweet “Say what you like about the Taliban, at least the trains ran on time”
Roshan M Salih @RmSalih Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
Jesus Christ that guy's Twitter feed. And he's a British Muslim. Odious
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
He doesn’t know anything of the sort. It is certainly winnable for remain. Recent polling has shown a small majority favouring remain.
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Yes, a dreadful day.
Humiliation for the White House and the US and indeed the entire West.
Likely return of Afghanistan to being a failed state full of jihadi terrorist camps.
Glee in Moscow and Beijing as the US is at its weakest internationally for over 100 years, indeed even weaker than at the fall of Saigon as North Vietnam did not pose the threat to the West jihadi terrorism did and the USSR then was not as powerful as China is now
Trumpists contend that the neo-cons, the US military and the CIA are all pro-Biden because he represented a return to the expansionism they love so dearly.
I guess we can wave that theory goodbye.
Yes forget that, today Biden is a cross between George McGovern and Bernie Sanders but without the conviction
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
"Q Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable? THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not. Q Why? THE PRESIDENT: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable."
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
All that's needed now is some US or British citizens left behind as effective hostages. That way we can relive not just the fall of Saigon but the Iran hostage crisis as well.
Gotta love the first six words in this Tweet “Say what you like about the Taliban, at least the trains ran on time”
Roshan M Salih @RmSalih Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
Jesus Christ that guy's Twitter feed. And he's a British Muslim. Odious
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Yes, a dreadful day.
Humiliation for the White House and the US and indeed the entire West.
Likely return of Afghanistan to being a failed state full of jihadi terrorist camps.
Glee in Moscow and Beijing as the US is at its weakest internationally for over 100 years, indeed even weaker than at the fall of Saigon as North Vietnam did not pose the threat to the West jihadi terrorism did and the USSR then was not as powerful as China is now
Trumpists contend that the neo-cons, the US military and the CIA are all pro-Biden because he represented a return to the expansionism they love so dearly.
I guess we can wave that theory goodbye.
Yes forget that, today Biden is a cross between George McGovern and Bernie Sanders but without the conviction
If your point about this uniting the republicans holds....blimey. Big implications there....
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
You know the conspiracy theory that Trump won?
I wonder if we that expect that view to emerge from places other than just the depths of the populist right, from here on in.
It is difficult to interpret that collection of words, but if you are suggesting that other than the really true nutters think Trump won the answer is no. What camp are you in?
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
The polling I posted earlier indicated bipartisan support for withdrawal from Afghanistan so it’s probably too early to draw that sort of conclusion.
Might be overly cynical, but I suspect the support for withdrawal is conditional on not being shown the consequences. I can think of popular decisions taken by the UK government where that might apply.
Not overly cynical at all. Fickle voters will quite happily exist in a continuum which encompasses approval of ar lads being brought home and rage & despair at the Taliban marching into Kabul. Many of them may even be untroubled by making a connection between the two events. As you imply, 'why are those bastard EUers whose shackles we have thrown off not making things easy for us' might fall into this category.
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
All that's needed now is some US or British citizens left behind as effective hostages. That way we can relive not just the fall of Saigon but the Iran hostage crisis as well.
Unquestionably there will be. The Viet Cong were close to, or in, the suburbs of Saigon for several days, IIRC. Although their big base wasn't far away. Fascinating place to visit. When you see it, you know how they won.
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Yes, a dreadful day.
Humiliation for the White House and the US and indeed the entire West.
Likely return of Afghanistan to being a failed state full of jihadi terrorist camps.
Glee in Moscow and Beijing as the US is at its weakest internationally for over 100 years, indeed even weaker than at the fall of Saigon as North Vietnam did not pose the threat to the West jihadi terrorism did and the USSR then was not as powerful as China is now
Trumpists contend that the neo-cons, the US military and the CIA are all pro-Biden because he represented a return to the expansionism they love so dearly.
I guess we can wave that theory goodbye.
Yes forget that, today Biden is a cross between George McGovern and Bernie Sanders but without the conviction
The Boris regime are also withdrawing their troops from Afghanistan.
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
Enjoy it. I am. Hope lies in the ashes of empires.
Your cynicism is unamusing here. The Taliban are pure evil. Life is about to get immeasurably worse for millions of Afghanis, especially women and girls; life is about to end for thousands of them, I suspect
It is really the beginning of the end for all of us, as the pressure doesn't stop with the evacuation of Kabul. It has always been the case that the West is devoid of values or a civilisational mission but has for many years felt safe due essentially to its ability to project power. This is alarming evidence of this decline. What after that? The whole edifice can fall apart very quickly, and my fear is that it probably will.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
Didn't Boris also say he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea?
He had no choice to get a trade deal with the EU as the EU held the key hand on that.
On indyref2 Boris holds the key hand, not Sturgeon, under the Scotland Act 1998
The Tories told us that they “held all the cards”.
The Scottish nation hold the key hand, not any single politician. The Tories are playing with fire here.
They will hold us prisoner as long as possible, desperate to shout about freedom for any country in the world, wailing and gnashing of teeth over Afghanistan, but allow democracy in Scotland , NO way. Tories are an abomination, selfish greedy, jingoistic and desperate.
Agreed.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
Mind you, the greediness and jingoism is a constant.
If your point is that the modern tory party has abandoned all principle in the last 18 months then we agree.
Glad you got the gist! Sorry for being a poor communicator. I promise to pull my socks up.
Fair enough I undervalued your contribution here, but its strange to see such a good critique coming from a poster with a very different outlook in general.
Thank you.
I understand Conservatives and Conservatism. I’ve been an involuntary student my entire life. I understand their self-image and I also understand how that differs from reality.
And I don’t have “a very different outlook in general”. I am generally centrist or centre-right on most issues. Although an active trade unionist*, I was also a member of the Moderates (Fredrik Reinfeldt’s party) for many years, serving as a co-opted local councillor.
(*Swedish trade unions organise into three different national congresses - LO, TCO and Saco - and I belong to the one furthest away from the Social Democrats: Saco.)
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
You know the conspiracy theory that Trump won?
I wonder if we that expect that view to emerge from places other than just the depths of the populist right, from here on in.
It is difficult to interpret that collection of words, but if you are suggesting that other than the really true nutters think Trump won the answer is no. What camp are you in?
Of course if you look at the polls, almost half of America thinks Trump won, with a chunk of the rest 'unsure'.
Whether Trump won or not is irrelevant at this point, if you wanted to undermine Biden, that's how you would go about it...
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
I thought I was boring, but FUDHY really does take the biscuit.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
Support for independence peaked about a year ago when Sturgeon's mother of the nation schtick still had some credibility and has been declining since across all pollsters. Still closer than it ought to be but the trend is positive.
"Q Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable? THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not. Q Why? THE PRESIDENT: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable."
I suspect that the US government's idea of Afghanistan came from talking to upper middle class types in Kabul.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
While on that, did you see my earlier post this morning on the Mechanism?
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
You know the conspiracy theory that Trump won?
I wonder if we that expect that view to emerge from places other than just the depths of the populist right, from here on in.
It is difficult to interpret that collection of words, but if you are suggesting that other than the really true nutters think Trump won the answer is no. What camp are you in?
Of course if you look at the polls, almost half of America thinks Trump won, with a chunk of the rest 'unsure'.
Whether Trump won or not is irrelevant at this point, if you wanted to undermine Biden, that's how you would go about it...
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
You putting a stopper on your novelettish views on the subject would take a handy chunk out of the quota. You could even extend the principle to other areas.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
While on that, did you see my earlier post this morning on the Mechanism?
Morning all, so on topic, someone it'd be nice to not have to talk about, but we're sadly not there yet, Donald Trump.
With few exceptions a rational adult acting rationally will get vaccinated against Covid if it's available to them. They'll do it for themselves and for the wider community. Both selfishly and altruistically it's a slam dunk of a decision not meriting more than a moment's hesitation. It's a (literal) no brainer.
One person who knows this is the aforesaid Donald Trump and he acted accordingly. He got the jab that a big chunk of his base, those many millions of 'not the brightest but not necessarily terrible' people who look up to him, are shunning. A chance here then, you'd have thought, for him to have an impact - a benign one for a change. It wouldn't take much effort. Just put a clear message out there in that trademark dumbed down and oddly effective syntax that the vaccine is safe, and everybody should do the right thing and get it. He could even, if he wanted, slip in some boasting about how this silver bullet with pandemic ending potential was created on his watch. Go Donald. Do something good. Just this once. It won't kill you. You won't even get a rash.
But no. In typical 'right wing populist pissing on the patio' style he sees benefit to himself in pushing the chips in precisely the opposite direction. He weighs it all up and decides to make the situation worse. He comes out with this:
"People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his (Biden's) Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth."
Let's help the virus kill more Americans, why the fuck not.
We're not short of things to illustrate why this ghastly human being mustn't get anywhere near the White House again, but here is one more.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
Tell you what Sean, you desist from your thousand sockpuppets and you’ve got a deal. I won’t mention Scottish independence until 25 December (we Swedes celebrate Christmas on the 24th - by watching Donald Duck - don’t ask.)
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
While on that, did you see my earlier post this morning on the Mechanism?
I did not. Reprise?
As much to say ta as anything else:
O/T but FPT for @Leon - that Nature article you found on the Antikythera Mechanism is absolutely fascinating. Many thanks for flagging it up.
If I understand it right, this is (to us) counterintuitive genius - to reduce the cosmic cycles to the most accurate possible sequence of rational numbers (made up of integers for both numerator and divisor, such as 234/567, 61/1, etc.) which can therefore be accurate converted to a sequence of prime integers - and, very easily, the integral numbers of teeth on strings of gears, going one way to multiply and the other to divide. Total solution to the cosmos. And all done with rational numbers. Remembnering that some Greek mathematicians really, really hated irrational numbers.
But cramming it all in, with such ideas as using the same primes where they occur in different sequences to save on gears ... And that mechanism of a pin on w wheel sliding in a slotted bar I've seen elsewhere, in dreadnought gun-aiming computers, in use until very recently in the odd WW2 hangover such as the Belgrano and Iowa:
Of course those 20th century things had messy continuous data full of irrational numbers, without the elegance of the Greek computer, but they do seem in some ways to be its unwitting heirs.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
You putting a stopper on your novelettish views on the subject would take a handy chunk out of the quota. You could even extend the principle to other areas.
I am willing to do my bit for the cause, and refrain from any remarks relating to Scottish independence until Christmas Day 2021
I expect you to do the same, though unfortunately this will reduce your already weary output to one or two sad little comments about your past life as a milliner, but we must all make sacrifices
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
I thought I was boring, but FUDHY really does take the biscuit.
Scoop Neill is on the case. I imagine him sitting in front of a bank of tv screens in the south of France fashioning whatever dribbles of news he's getting into some grand and invariably wrong narrative.
Andrew Neil @afneil 6m Taliban have now occupied the districts of Kalakan, Qarabagh and Paghman in Kabul. From there they pledged not to take Kabul "by force". Sporadic gunfire could be heard as they spoke.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
What do you suggest we discuss? Brexit maybe?
The similarities between Margaret Thatcher and Greta Thunberg.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
I thought I was boring, but FUDHY really does take the biscuit.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
Perhaps you guys could also shut the fuck up about Scottish indy as well, then? Just for a few months?
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
While on that, did you see my earlier post this morning on the Mechanism?
I did not. Reprise?
As much to say ta as anything else:
O/T but FPT for @Leon - that Nature article you found on the Antikythera Mechanism is absolutely fascinating. Many thanks for flagging it up.
If I understand it right, this is (to us) counterintuitive genius - to reduce the cosmic cycles to the most accurate possible sequence of rational numbers (made up of integers for both numerator and divisor, such as 234/567, 61/1, etc.) which can therefore be accurate converted to a sequence of prime integers - and, very easily, the integral numbers of teeth on strings of gears, going one way to multiply and the other to divide. Total solution to the cosmos. And all done with rational numbers. Remembnering that some Greek mathematicians really, really hated irrational numbers.
But cramming it all in, with such ideas as using the same primes where they occur in different sequences to save on gears ... And that mechanism of a pin on w wheel sliding in a slotted bar I've seen elsewhere, in dreadnought gun-aiming computers, in use until very recently in the odd WW2 hangover such as the Belgrano and Iowa:
Of course those 20th century things had messy continuous data full of irrational numbers, without the elegance of the Greek computer, but they do seem in some ways to be its unwitting heirs.
Thanks in return. I confess some of the maths in the Nature article was expressed in a way that was beyond me, so this summary is rather helpful
It really is a truly astonishing thing, on the frontiers of credibility, one of the sacred objects of human history. It is worth visiting Athens to see, all by itself
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
Why would they take 50.1% now when they think they will get 51% next year, 52% the following year, 53% the year after that etc ?
The trend seems to be towards the unionists, which is why you nats want a referendum asap.
Does this mean Biden's honeymoon period is definitively over? (This being the Taliban taking Kabul).
You know the conspiracy theory that Trump won?
I wonder if we that expect that view to emerge from places other than just the depths of the populist right, from here on in.
It is difficult to interpret that collection of words, but if you are suggesting that other than the really true nutters think Trump won the answer is no. What camp are you in?
Of course if you look at the polls, almost half of America thinks Trump won, with a chunk of the rest 'unsure'.
Whether Trump won or not is irrelevant at this point, if you wanted to undermine Biden, that's how you would go about it...
Valid point. Do you think he won?
No. I think there was some voter fraud (there always is) but not enough to sway the result.
I always underestimate quite how viscerally many people hate Donald Trump.
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
I thought I was boring, but FUDHY really does take the biscuit.
Don't underrate yourself Stuart.
Lawyers are of course always scintillating.
You think? Not my experience but maybe I have just been unlucky 😉
With regard to the tories on the previous thread getting drippy dicks about the informal transmanche regatta which has so adorned out summer...
They are correct in their analysis: this government lacks the fortitude to do any on water operation that would make any difference.
However, what they are missing is that this cannot be fixed by a tory government. This is a Europe wide problem that needs a European solution. However the tories have spent the last five years gleefully shitting on European cooperation in general and the French and particular. They withdrew from the Dublin Convention which would have allowed the legal return of some of the arrivals to other European countries.
It's going to take a government of a different political complexion that can upgrade the UK's relationship with the EU to fix it.
In fairness, Commander(?) Ace, the situation cannot be fixed by THIS Tory government; up until 2015 one could reasonably say that Tory governments were, generally speaking, pro-Europe.
It's only under Johnson and his acolytes that the party has become rabid English Nationalists.
So, what is more likely?
1. the Conservative Party abandoning English Nationalism and becoming pro-Europe again, or 2. a government of a different political complexion taking power
Because one of those two things has to happen to solve the informal transmanche regatta.
Path 2 seems far more likely than path 1.
Consider also that, at least since party leaders were chosen by members, the standard response to defeat is to double down on what the members want and moderation can go to hell.
Suppose the Conservatives lose in 2024. Is the next LotO more likely to be a "Brexit with a human face" type (Hunt, say) or a "Boris's problem was he was just too soft on Europe, bless him" character (Patel or JRM, for example)?
It will always be the more extreme of the two members presented to them by the filtering committee of Tory MPs
In one year, Conservative Party membership increased by 50 per cent. That's ordinary Conservatives enthused by Boris, you understand, and not entryists as you'd suspect with Labour. 2018, 120,000 members; 2019, 180,000. So be slightly careful in guessing which way members will vote in any leadership election. Past performance may be no guide.
Whereas i read on here that Labour was almost broke and could barely pay its head office staff. The Unions don't seem keen to cough up much at the moment.
Talking of trade unions, I’ve just spotted this new market:
Best prices - Unite General Secretary election
Steve Turner 10/11 Gerard Coyne 2/1 Sharon Graham 11/4
I can’t think of a more depressing betting market
How about the Boris Johnson exit date market?
2024 or later 4/6
At least the Scots have an exit route.
They don't, as long as Boris remains PM he has made clear he will refuse indyref2
The Scots will decide the future constitutional status of our country, not Boris Johnson.
And they will vote to remain in the union
Maybe. Maybe not. There is only one way to find out.
they are too scared for that
It really is the only logical conclusion to draw.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
No it wouldn't, you Nationalists would be arguing for indyref3 the next day.
Once in a generation means precisely that
Given that you didn't answer the actual point, which is that Boris knows he will lose a referendum I assume you agree thag Scotland woulc currently vote for independence so you don't want to ffer them the chance.
Not necessarily, the latest poll is 52% No but once in a generation is once in a generation
That's a really original and interesting hypothesis. Do you think you could repeat it, like, maybe 246 times in 77 threads? I can then design a new Antikythera Mechanism to replace you on this site.
I thought I was boring, but FUDHY really does take the biscuit.
Don't underrate yourself Stuart.
Lawyers are of course always scintillating.
You think? Not my experience but maybe I have just been unlucky 😉
alex thomson @alextomo 3m Taiiban spokesman- calling for national unity No security threat to anyone in Kabul. Women will be educated and allowed to work so long as their heads are covered
Taliban spokesman on BBC news. Chilling, got to feel for the people of Afghanistan, especially women.
We were listening to some poor female film director in Kabul. She was absolutely distraught. Literally terrified. It was so distressing my mother asked me to switch the radio off. Just before I got to the switch the Kabul lady said she was facing a new holocaust.
Comments
These people are not scared of Biden. His card is marked already. He is seen as weak and incapable. Nobody is thinking that a Biden-led America is going to come down hard on them. He has not got the guts nor strength of character to do so. He is a career politician, with 50 years of being part of the establishment.
It's doubtful what we are seeing now with Afghanistan would have happened with Trump. Yes he signed the agreement but there was also a realisation that he would never have left the Taliban just come in and take over the country. The moment that looked as though it would have happened, they would have broken the Doha accords and let rip.
Biden is weak. He deserves totally to take the blame for this.
Another No win, even by 50.1% to 49.9%, would put the issue to bed for half a century. We’d be in a Quebec scenario.
If the Unionists thought they could get that 50.1% they’d take it in a flash. Cummings and Gove think they could, and they might be right, but very few other Unionists do. The big giveaway is that the Unionists with a true, deep understanding of the lie of the land in the villages and towns of Scotland - the Lib Dem and Labour activists - are also strongly against holding a fresh independence referendum. They can see clearly how it would go.
"US miilitary helicopters evacuate the US Embassy in Kabul as the Taliban enter the city"
https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1426832837710426113?s=20
I refuse to believe Biden and Harris and Co sat down and thought "Yes this will happen, the whole Saigon thing, and it will be worth it"
They have fucked up catastrophically, it is a total humiliation for the USA and a moment of real danger for the West
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/asia/2021/08/afghanistan-reviled-president-being-exposed-powerless
Since I tend not to have particularly 'on message' opinions. In all sorts of ways.
ie it hasn't been a fighting withdrawal....Western power has simply folded instantly like a deck chair in a gale?
Humiliation for the White House and the US and indeed the entire West.
Likely return of Afghanistan to being a failed state full of jihadi terrorist camps.
Glee in Moscow and Beijing as the US is at its weakest internationally for over 100 years, indeed even weaker than at the fall of Saigon as North Vietnam did not pose the threat to the West jihadi terrorism did and the USSR then was not as powerful as China is now
The scale of the humiliation is truly astounding, they clearly have to submit to the taliban, just to get their people out.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics
Mind you, the greediness and jingoism is a constant.
The M16 (and the M4 it begat) is very reliable in all conditions in my experience. The issue with AKs of all types is that their quality is widely variable because they are made in so many places. The Hungarian ones were supposed to be amazing and the Chinese ones get hot and stovepipe after about 10 rounds. The Taliban mainly use Pakistani ones - a mixture of legit license built ones and hand built 'Khyber Pass Copies'.
@Samfr
·
5m
What the hell is the point of recalling Parliament so they can bemoan something they can't and won't do anything about? Pointless theatre.
I suppose we've progressed if all we have to worry about is fucking fools advising the singing of God Save the Queen before football matches.
I guess we can wave that theory goodbye.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Béziers
And very few people did stand to attention.
Once in a generation means precisely that
I take your point on Western societies not taking faith seriously as a motivation, though perhaps the USA and Israel should have better insight.
There are a lot of people in the world who feel marginalised, unappreciated, and unserved by their governments and capitalist systems. In the past they inclined to Communism and anti-colonialism as an alternative, but now the only people who seem to provide any support or alternative are the religions. If you want your children fed and educated, the Madrassa is the only place where they are made welcome, cost free and without having to pay bribes.
"Lets do a battlefield assessment of the battle for Kabul.
It is an extremely deadly situation for the Americans particularly & their embassy staff. They know the war has been lost & now they only need a day to evacuate their staff & troops....but do they have that ONE day? "
https://twitter.com/threadreaderapp/status/1426853276805369858?s=20
Two posts both saying "unique circumstances" - bullshit. there should have bee *no* circumstances where such a thing would have been agreed. None. A Brexit "win" where we lose the integrity of the United Kingdom is not a win for the UK.
And this is the thing. The integrity of the United Kingdom didn't matter - only the political perspective of England and the Tories mattered. It is a lesson for Scotland.
Incredibly, he is now on holiday. Which makes it all look even worse
Roshan M Salih
@RmSalih
Whatever you think of the Taliban their seemingly imminent victory is a historic defeat of colonialism and imperialism. This should be the main narrative of media around the world, rather than the red herrings about women's rights etc that we are being sold.
It has united the GOP against Biden for the first time if anything.
From Senator Mitt Romney, the only Republican Senator to vote to impeach Trump 'I understand but disagree with those who felt we should leave Afghanistan; I cannot understand why it has been done with such tragic human cost; without an effective strategy to defend our partners; and with inestimable shock to our nation’s credibility, reliability, and honor'
https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1426658988091973633?s=20
To Trump himself 'Former President Trump slammed President Biden Saturday for not “following the plan” the former administration left for him regarding withdrawal from Afghanistan.
“He ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him. The Taliban no longer has fear or respect for America, or America’s power”
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/567907-trump-slams-biden-for-not-following-the-plan-he-left-on
I wonder if we that expect that view to emerge from places other than just the depths of the populist right, from here on in.
I can think of popular decisions taken by the UK government where that might apply.
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1424074941381713921?s=20
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/08/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-drawdown-of-u-s-forces-in-afghanistan/
"Q Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable?
THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not.
Q Why?
THE PRESIDENT: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable."
As you imply, 'why are those bastard EUers whose shackles we have thrown off not making things easy for us' might fall into this category.
Fascinating place to visit. When you see it, you know how they won.
I understand Conservatives and Conservatism. I’ve been an involuntary student my entire life. I understand their self-image and I also understand how that differs from reality.
And I don’t have “a very different outlook in general”. I am generally centrist or centre-right on most issues. Although an active trade unionist*, I was also a member of the Moderates (Fredrik Reinfeldt’s party) for many years, serving as a co-opted local councillor.
(*Swedish trade unions organise into three different national congresses - LO, TCO and Saco - and I belong to the one furthest away from the Social Democrats: Saco.)
Liverpool FC
@LFC
The chant is offensive and inappropriate - a message we have repeatedly communicated alongside Kop Outs.
We urge supporters to remember the inclusive values of the club and to refrain from using it in the future.
Ban Liverpool fans from going to away games. That would stop it.
Whether Trump won or not is irrelevant at this point, if you wanted to undermine Biden, that's how you would go about it...
We know where you stand, we know where HYUFD stands, we know where Stuart "blood and soil" Dickson stands, maybe if you ALL just put a lid on it til, say, Christmas, the site would benefit
There ain't gonna be a referendum any time soon, there are no new arguments to be had from Nats or Yoons, you are dancing around the same fucking handbag day after day. Desist. Ta
With few exceptions a rational adult acting rationally will get vaccinated against Covid if it's available to them. They'll do it for themselves and for the wider community. Both selfishly and altruistically it's a slam dunk of a decision not meriting more than a moment's hesitation. It's a (literal) no brainer.
One person who knows this is the aforesaid Donald Trump and he acted accordingly. He got the jab that a big chunk of his base, those many millions of 'not the brightest but not necessarily terrible' people who look up to him, are shunning. A chance here then, you'd have thought, for him to have an impact - a benign one for a change. It wouldn't take much effort. Just put a clear message out there in that trademark dumbed down and oddly effective syntax that the vaccine is safe, and everybody should do the right thing and get it. He could even, if he wanted, slip in some boasting about how this silver bullet with pandemic ending potential was created on his watch. Go Donald. Do something good. Just this once. It won't kill you. You won't even get a rash.
But no. In typical 'right wing populist pissing on the patio' style he sees benefit to himself in pushing the chips in precisely the opposite direction. He weighs it all up and decides to make the situation worse. He comes out with this:
"People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his (Biden's) Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth."
Let's help the virus kill more Americans, why the fuck not.
We're not short of things to illustrate why this ghastly human being mustn't get anywhere near the White House again, but here is one more.
O/T but FPT for @Leon - that Nature article you found on the Antikythera Mechanism is absolutely fascinating. Many thanks for flagging it up.
If I understand it right, this is (to us) counterintuitive genius - to reduce the cosmic cycles to the most accurate possible sequence of rational numbers (made up of integers for both numerator and divisor, such as 234/567, 61/1, etc.) which can therefore be accurate converted to a sequence of prime integers - and, very easily, the integral numbers of teeth on strings of gears, going one way to multiply and the other to divide. Total solution to the cosmos. And all done with rational numbers. Remembnering that some Greek mathematicians really, really hated irrational numbers.
But cramming it all in, with such ideas as using the same primes where they occur in different sequences to save on gears ... And that mechanism of a pin on w wheel sliding in a slotted bar I've seen elsewhere, in dreadnought gun-aiming computers, in use until very recently in the odd WW2 hangover such as the Belgrano and Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr1uK24SND8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GZa63x3k60 (especially 8:14 for a slotted bar and pin engaging in disc)
Of course those 20th century things had messy continuous data full of irrational numbers, without the elegance of the Greek computer, but they do seem in some ways to be its unwitting heirs.
I expect you to do the same, though unfortunately this will reduce your already weary output to one or two sad little comments about your past life as a milliner, but we must all make sacrifices
Andrew Neil
@afneil
6m
Taliban have now occupied the districts of Kalakan, Qarabagh and Paghman in Kabul. From there they pledged not to take Kabul "by force". Sporadic gunfire could be heard as they spoke.
It really is a truly astonishing thing, on the frontiers of credibility, one of the sacred objects of human history. It is worth visiting Athens to see, all by itself
The trend seems to be towards the unionists, which is why you nats want a referendum asap.
I always underestimate quite how viscerally many people hate Donald Trump.
alex thomson
@alextomo
3m
Taiiban spokesman- calling for national unity No security threat to anyone in Kabul. Women will be educated and allowed to work so long as their heads are covered