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The changed perceptions of government performance since GE2019 – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited August 2021

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    I'm not, of course :smile:

    It's just a bit of a running joke between us whenever he tries a new ball/other game.

    He'll be off to one of the three similarly distant local primary schools, then local comp (if we're still living here, which, as luck would have it - we moved at a time when not thinking of any of this - is currently quite good, although a lot might change in 8 years!). Neither of us care in the least what he does as long as he's happy. My wife and I both have PhDs and have worked in academia (I still do) but if he wants to be a plasterer, electrician, mechanic or hairdresser straight from school we'll be just as happy as if he's heading off to Oxbridge or playing for Arsenal (or, indeed, a good team). My brother is an accountant, my in-laws are teachers and builders and they (not the accountant, to be fair) contribute more tangible good to society in their jobs than I do.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    Nicola is the democratically elected leader of her country. Scots expect their choice to be respected.

    Incidentally, expecting Boris Johnson to be “delicate” has got to be a gold medal performance in wishful thinking.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,314
    Nigelb said:

    Xi has been reading @kinabalu 's little red book ?
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/08/05/business/china-business-crackdown-xi-speeches/
    ...As $1 trillion evaporated from Chinese stocks last week, some investors realized they hadn’t paid enough attention to the country’s most important man: President Xi Jinping.

    Traders began scouring databases and other collections of Xi’s speeches to find clues about which industries might be next after his administration abruptly smashed the country’s $100 billion for-profit education sector, according to several employees at Chinese financial firms who asked not to be identified. Screenshots of key passages made the rounds: Xi denouncing “obscene” online content, education inequality and housing-price speculation in school districts.

    The jitters continued this week, with Tencent Holdings Ltd. shares plunging after the Economic Information Daily — an offshoot of the official Xinhua News Agency — decried the “spiritual opium” of online gaming, sparking worries that the sector might be next on the chopping block...

    Reading the signals from Beijing has always been a crucial component of doing business in China. But the abrupt education overhaul has prompted even seasoned investors to reassess how they interpret statements from Xi and top officials in his government — a task made more difficult by the fact that many of his speeches are classified and only made available to the party elite....

    This story is an illustration of why China under Xi might well not achieve the global economic hegemony that everyone and their dog are predicting.
    If you trash whole sectors on the whim of the great leader, and visit unpleasant consequences on anyone who is too publicly successful (Jack Ma, Sun Dawu, etc), it will have deleterious effects over time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    Surely the best way for parents to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large fortune?
    Lewis Hamilton started with not a lot and has got a long way. Jenson Button, on the other hand had a father who could help him get on and didn't get as far.
    Hamilton was lucky in three ways: he had a vast amount of visible innate talent as a kid, he was willing to work hard, and that talent and effort was noticed by people with money (McLaren).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    King Cole, is that true?

    I remember hearing that Button was so good in wet-drying conditions because in his carting days the family could barely afford tyres so he had to try and make dry tyres work in the wet more often.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Texas probably would have gone blue absent the heroic voter suppression efforts.
    And no scientist has an agenda that isn't completely philanthropic and science based. No scientist whatever.

    That's the other one.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    On NZ and rugby its hard to understate just how big rugby is in NZ. Its little old ladies in the post office queue opining knowledgeably about the sport that get you. Its rugby mad. Plus the hefty islander heritage population, a race that are almost designed for rugby and this is a heavy mix. Add in now the history, and the cult of the All Blacks and you get the picture. In England we expect to be the best in the world at everything, and of course we are not.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    My Dad was pretty decent back in the 60s, Yorkshire Schoolboys, York City reserves, England Universities, and maintains that the risk has decreased massively since they stopped using leather balls that soak up water.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,247

    FF43 said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small possibility of a benefit to the children themselves may not outweigh the low but statistically significant risks.
    I think there's an issue here in the time horizon they're using for their calculations, which means they assign a significantly larger than zero probability that children won't catch Covid, downweighting the risk side of the calculation.

    But mostly scientists are saying that we will all eventually get it.

    I guess it depends on how long you think the vaccine will be effective for, and we don't know that.
    The issue is about the degree to which the vaccine prevents bad Covid effects and whether this outweighs potential bad side effects of taking the medecine. This risk is very dependent on case numbers and agree that if everyone not already vaccinated is going to get Covid eventually that may change the calculation.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    Surely the best way for parents to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large fortune?
    Lewis Hamilton started with not a lot and has got a long way. Jenson Button, on the other hand had a father who could help him get on and didn't get as far.
    Jenson Button did win the world championship.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_World_Drivers'_Champions
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Jessop, aye, I don't think Hamilton has had a single season without an F1 car capable of winning races, making him unique in the modern form of the sport.

    He's made the most of his opportunities, but those opportunities have been greater than for any other driver. In that regard, both in terms of fortune and wise decision-making, he's the anti-Alonso.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Texas probably would have gone blue absent the heroic voter suppression efforts.
    And no scientist has an agenda that isn't completely philanthropic and science based. No scientist whatever.

    That's the other one.
    Grow up.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    They are already introducing limits on heading the ball even for professionals in training. For todays 3yo growing up dementia will be extremely unlikely to be a factor for an elite footballer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,051
    edited August 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    Nicola is the democratically elected leader of her country. Scots expect their choice to be respected.

    Incidentally, expecting Boris Johnson to be “delicate” has got to be a gold medal performance in wishful thinking.
    She is the democratically elected First Minister of the Scottish government.

    The Supreme leader of her country is Queen Elizabeth IInd and the democratically elected PM of Her Majesty's government is Boris Johnson.

    In terms of precedence of power and government within Scotland Sturgeon is below the Queen and below Johnson
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    Surely the best way for parents to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large fortune?
    Lewis Hamilton started with not a lot and has got a long way. Jenson Button, on the other hand had a father who could help him get on and didn't get as far.
    I don't think there's much difference between Hamilton and Button in terms of their backgrounds. Ultimately you need a parent willing to cough up a lot of money (and time) to get you started. And they both had that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    I'm not, of course :smile:

    It's just a bit of a running joke between us whenever he tries a new ball/other game.

    He'll be off to one of the three similarly distant local primary schools, then local comp (if we're still living here, which, as luck would have it - we moved at a time when not thinking of any of this - is currently quite good, altohugh a lot might change in 8 years!). Neither of us care in the least what he does as long as he's happy. My wife and I both have PhDs and have worked in academia (I still do) but if he wants to be a plasterer, electrician, mechanic or hairdresser straight from school we'll be just as happy as if he's heading off to Oxbridge or playing for Arsenal (or, indeed, a good team). My brother is an accountant, my in-laws are teachers and builders and they (not the accountant, to be fair) contribute more tangible good to society in their jobs than I do.
    LOL!!!

    I've got a similar mix; no PhD's (yet), but a wide range of occupations among the next (two) generations. Eldest son left school at 16 and did a trade apprenticeship, then at 20+ decided to go to Uni and, not long after graduating got a job in a very high profile firm. Left not long ago as a director.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,314

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    I would think that depends a great deal on the player and their position in both sports. Bottom line is that any collision with sufficient force involving the head creates brain trauma, and that includes heading the ball - and the more regular the trauma, the more damage is done.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Mr. Jessop, aye, I don't think Hamilton has had a single season without an F1 car capable of winning races, making him unique in the modern form of the sport.

    He's made the most of his opportunities, but those opportunities have been greater than for any other driver. In that regard, both in terms of fortune and wise decision-making, he's the anti-Alonso.

    I was at Silverstone in 2006. Hamilton's performance in the GP2 sprint race showed just how good he was. I'd have sacked JPM and stuck Lewis in the McLaren on the spot.
  • Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    I don’t know much about football tbh, except that, despite it not being a sport that is offered at my school (main choice is hockey or rugby) most of the time if I see a boy in plaster or on crutches they have injured themselves playing football.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    IshmaelZ said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant
    Israel is on 60% double vaccinated against UK 70%, largely because of religious refuseniks.
    Their population pyramid is much more pyramidal than ours.
  • "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Speaking of anti-vaxxers, my friend - currently in hospital with a kidney failure - has caught covid.

    Half the ward has it, and the theory is that it was brought in by an anti-vax nurse.

    Hopefully my friend - young, double vaxxed and already a covid veteran - will be fine.

    Hope they make it through without any issues!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?
  • It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Texas probably would have gone blue absent the heroic voter suppression efforts.
    And no scientist has an agenda that isn't completely philanthropic and science based. No scientist whatever.

    That's the other one.
    And that is probably true, from their point of view (though others may disagree with them as to what the ideal goal is and/or how to get there). More so than politicians at any rate.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    DougSeal said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    My Dad was pretty decent back in the 60s, Yorkshire Schoolboys, York City reserves, England Universities, and maintains that the risk has decreased massively since they stopped using leather balls that soak up water.
    Wouldn't be at all surprised. Still dislike though the fact that our local non-league team had, under it's previous manager, almost a fetish for head-tennis.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,247

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small benefits to the children themselves may not outweigh the slight risks.

    The medical establishment seem scared to make the case about greater herd immunity, especially in the UK. Probably down to distrust of Cummings and Johnson, and the March 2020 UK plan for herd immunity. It is nothing new, there are other illnesses where we have accepted treatment to protect the wider community.
    I don't think that take is quite fair to the regulators that have to address this issue. Let's try a thought experiment. I go to you and ask if I can vaccinate your child. I tell you it will help protect you, your partner and grown up children. It helps reduce the epidemic in the population at large It probably won't do anything for your child, who has a very low risk of getting Covid. There are very low risks, but they exist, of your child suffering side effects that may be fatal, [and let's say because there is doubt about this] those risks are slightly higher than your child avoiding serious Covid through vaccination. Would you say, Yes?

    You might say, Yes, because you see the wider benefits. But as a regulator I am asking you to make that risk assessment. It isn't the place of the regulator to require consumers to make risk assessments on something as routine as vaccination. It is my responsibility to affirm to you that the vaccine is effective and safe.
    The issue as I see it is that the establishment have not explained that case, nor reminded people that it has been common practice for people including children to accept ultra low risk treatment primarily for the benefit of the wider community.

    They have focussed instead on comparing the benefits for the individual child vs the vaccination risks. That means comparing two different ultra low risks and requires massive samples and data to get any firm conclusion - hence they end up with mixed messages and awaiting further data.

    I am not saying the regulators should mandate vaccination for children at all, I am saying they should not be so shy about saying the country as a whole would be significantly better if vaccination take up in children is high.
    I agree totally with this, but I am not convinced regulators have any choice but to be guided by the risk/benefit for the individual, for the reasons I have already given.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
  • It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tomorrow’s announcement today:

    A number of key destinations as well as international travel hubs will be removed from the red list – India, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE. India’s placement on the red list was the subject of substantial controversy after MPs accused Boris Johnson of delaying its inclusion in the spring as cases rapidly rose and the new Delta variant emerged.

    Mexico, Georgia, Réunion and Mayotte are to be added to the red list. More countries will also be added to the green list where travellers can go regardless of vaccine status. New green list countries are Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, Romania and Norway. All changes come into effect at 4am on Sunday 8 August in England.

    That statement is inaccurate. The green list is a list of countries where travellers can return from without quarantine. New Zealand is on the green list, good luck going there.
    It’s also very asymmetric. People travelling from the Middle East countries back to the UK are only exempt from quarantine if they were vaccinated in the UK. Not if they were vaccinated abroad.

    It’s still a minimum of five days’ quarantine (with the expensive test-to-release scheme) if I travel from UAE to UK, even though I had two UK-approved Pfizer vaccines.
    Son-in-Thailand has had two vaccine shots, but with Sinovac. Doesn't think he'll be allowed into the UK without quarantine plus the scheme to which Mr S refers, if at all.
    Eventually he will, unless the UK doesn’t want any tourists from China anymore.
    No Chinese tourists ever again sounds like a dream.
    Sounds off to me, poor post.
  • Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    I would think that depends a great deal on the player and their position in both sports. Bottom line is that any collision with sufficient force involving the head creates brain trauma, and that includes heading the ball - and the more regular the trauma, the more damage is done.
    We'd never have invaded Iraq were it not for Blair's photo-op with Kevin Keegan that did for his grey matter.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/football/moment-tony-blair-played-headers-with-kevin-keegan-in-one-of-the-most-talked-about-photo-ops-of-the-1990s/
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
    I only list this stuff when things I have got wrong in the past are brought up to try to silence me.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant
    Israel is on 60% double vaccinated against UK 70%, largely because of religious refuseniks.
    And once Delta gets into those religious refuseniks it goes through them all. Quickly.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited August 2021

    DougSeal said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    My Dad was pretty decent back in the 60s, Yorkshire Schoolboys, York City reserves, England Universities, and maintains that the risk has decreased massively since they stopped using leather balls that soak up water.
    Wouldn't be at all surprised. Still dislike though the fact that our local non-league team had, under it's previous manager, almost a fetish for head-tennis.
    I remember the first time my dad took us to see Chelmsford (same local non-league team?) and up until that point, must have been early 90s I guess, I'd only seen top flight football on telly or (what is now) championship football in person at Ipswich or Southend. Chelmsford City FC versus whoever was a hell of a shock. Not sure the ball touched the ground for the first 20 minutes!

    Edit: Braintree, for you, maybe?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,962
    DougSeal said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    is this the same people who confidently predicted there would be 100,000 cases by now?

    Yep.

    "Lead author and Independent SAGE member Professor Christina Pagel"

    iSAGE can sure move quickly on to new terrain when one of their predictions or prescriptions implodes without pausing for breath.
    They have been an absolute disgrace throughout. Alarmist, misleading, useless. I would very much hope that their professional bodies, where they have them, have taken note and are considering charges of bringing the profession into disrepute.
    One thing I am curious about is whether all their respective universities have agreed to the secondment to iSAGE? For some of them at least this has got to be a full time job. I mean they are never off 24 hour news. So they have presumably sought and recvd permission to put down their day jobs doing research with measured outputs?
    Most universities will just love having their ‘stars’ in the media, and not worry too much what they say. And dont forget, pb is not representative of the nation. Remember 17% want a lockdown right now. For all that many of us on here think they are at best misguided, that is probably not the majority view amongst many of the still very scared.
    Indeed. Most unis would be v happy as their name always appears in the title of the person on TV. Those lumps of £9K don't just walk through the door. But when I worked in unis you would still need permission to be away from the day job like this.
    Generally academics don't need permission to do outside activities unless paid (surely not the case here, and in fact some academic contracts do permit up to x days paid outside work) or there is a conflict of interest with University business.

    I have little respect for the way certain academics have conducted themselves in this pandemic, and even less for the media who promote extreme views with no balance or challenge, but I believe the solution to academics talking nonsense is to ignore them, not to silence them.

    --AS
    I've been on radio a few times to give my ha'penny's worth about employment law topics, and indeed once on Sky News (funnily enough was never asked back - my face works best on radio) and every time I think they were disappointed I was not more strident. That was particularly true when I was inverviewed by Julia Hartely-Brewer on LBC 7 years ago about a topic I can't remember. But as an ambassador for my firm I didn't really want to put off potential clients who may not have shared my political view on whatever judgment or legislation was being discussed so tried to be as balanced and accurate as I could. Academics, on the other hand, only face criticism from other academics.
    There is a need to distinguish between Academics and Quackademics, I think.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
    I only list this stuff when things I have got wrong in the past are brought up to try to silence me.
    It is the mark of a massive snowflake when criticism is labelled as an attempt to "silence" them.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    IshmaelZ said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant
    Israel is on 60% double vaccinated against UK 70%, largely because of religious refuseniks.
    And once Delta gets into those religious refuseniks it goes through them all. Quickly.
    Everyone on the planet is going to get it eventually. It's just a question of how badly.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,716
    edited August 2021

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    I would think that depends a great deal on the player and their position in both sports. Bottom line is that any collision with sufficient force involving the head creates brain trauma, and that includes heading the ball - and the more regular the trauma, the more damage is done.
    We'd never have invaded Iraq were it not for Blair's photo-op with Kevin Keegan that did for his grey matter.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/football/moment-tony-blair-played-headers-with-kevin-keegan-in-one-of-the-most-talked-about-photo-ops-of-the-1990s/
    Looking back that seems to have a veritable Boris-esque silliness about it; at the time we were conditioned into believing it was the very height of cool.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    tlg86 said:

    Mr. Jessop, aye, I don't think Hamilton has had a single season without an F1 car capable of winning races, making him unique in the modern form of the sport.

    He's made the most of his opportunities, but those opportunities have been greater than for any other driver. In that regard, both in terms of fortune and wise decision-making, he's the anti-Alonso.

    I was at Silverstone in 2006. Hamilton's performance in the GP2 sprint race showed just how good he was. I'd have sacked JPM and stuck Lewis in the McLaren on the spot.
    I was at that one too. Everyone was saying this young black British guy had “Future World Champion” tattooed across his forehead!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,787

    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?

    He does have a lot of very cool race cars; Elva 100, Aston Martin DB2/4 and a few 70s rally cars.


  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950
    edited August 2021

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
    I only list this stuff when things I have got wrong in the past are brought up to try to silence me.
    So when people point out things you got wrong you list things that others generally didn't say? Interesting.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,962

    OT some great pictures.

    Scuba-diver photographs Scotland's colourful marine life
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-58071314

    Aha.

    The menu.
  • DougSeal said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
    The EU 27 only has about 5 more golds than QE2's realms, I got bored of counting all their one gold countries
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    The dementia and football story is an interesting and confusing one.

    The biggest study found that ex footballers lived on average longer than their control group, but that they are several times more likely to suffer from dementia.

    The interpretation and publicity of that study has almost universally been that playing elite football is dangerous because of increased chances of dementia. Parents are now worried about kids playing football. All the other benefits of fitness, social bonds from team sport and diet have been forgotten.

    The interpretation should primarily have been to emphasise how important sport can be, with thought on how we can reduce dementia a secondary factor.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    edited August 2021
    Selebian said:

    DougSeal said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    My Dad was pretty decent back in the 60s, Yorkshire Schoolboys, York City reserves, England Universities, and maintains that the risk has decreased massively since they stopped using leather balls that soak up water.
    Wouldn't be at all surprised. Still dislike though the fact that our local non-league team had, under it's previous manager, almost a fetish for head-tennis.
    I remember the first time my dad took us to see Chelmsford (same local non-league team?) and up until that point, must have been early 90s I guess, I'd only seen top flight football on telly or (what is now) championship football in person at Ipswich or Southend. Chelmsford City FC versus whoever was a hell of a shock. Not sure the ball touched the ground for the first 20 minutes!
    No, but not far away!
    Used to watch Southend when Younger Son wanted to go, but was too young to go by himself. Certainly a lot more FOOT ball than the team I'll probably watch this autumn.

    Edit; Just seen your addendum, and not them either. Close, though.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Dura_Ace said:

    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?

    He does have a lot of very cool race cars; Elva 100, Aston Martin DB2/4 and a few 70s rally cars.


    I think, personally, he's a decent enough bloke. I just think for the Remain/Rejoin side that I support he's completely counterproductive.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
    Just a thought; what are the chances of dementia in later life as a result of playing football, and heading the ball, as against playing rugby?
    I would think that depends a great deal on the player and their position in both sports. Bottom line is that any collision with sufficient force involving the head creates brain trauma, and that includes heading the ball - and the more regular the trauma, the more damage is done.
    We'd never have invaded Iraq were it not for Blair's photo-op with Kevin Keegan that did for his grey matter.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/football/moment-tony-blair-played-headers-with-kevin-keegan-in-one-of-the-most-talked-about-photo-ops-of-the-1990s/
    Looking back that seems to have a veritable Boris-esque silliness about it; at the time we were conditioned into believing it was the very height of cool.
    I dunno. Struck me that was part of Blair's charm - a normal(ish) family man who looked like he actually played with his kids and was willing and able to have a bit of fun with Keegan. He could do it, it was natural. Contrast with Johnson (or indeed, Brown or May - not sure about Cameron, he'd maybe have pulled it off) playing any sport (the reverse basketball thing excepted, which was also legitimately impressive).
  • Conservative donors have no influence on policy, insists Grant Shapps

    Conservative donors are not "immoral" and have no influence on government policy, minister Grant Shapps has insisted, amid cash-for-access claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58098887
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572
    As some of you have been interested in the animal welfare debate, I'll just mention that I've got a letter in the Times on it today (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-encouraging-employees-back-into-the-office-t86rr6s2x - paywall). There was a piece a few days ago about encouraging farmers to keep cows in sheds ("zero grazing") so as to maximise milk production, to which this a reply.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320

    DougSeal said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
    The EU 27 only has about 5 more golds than QE2's realms, I got bored of counting all their one gold countries
    Are you sure?

    U.K., Australia, NZ, Canada, Jamaica all have golds.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
    Well I can remember you sometime ago selectively picking out death numbers in the States from the weekends to prove numbers were dropping when they were rocketing and continued doing so. You were spectacularly wrong on that point and you were called out for it by numerous posters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Conservative donors have no influence on policy, insists Grant Shapps

    Conservative donors are not "immoral" and have no influence on government policy, minister Grant Shapps has insisted, amid cash-for-access claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58098887

    Donors to the ruling party have no influence on policy?

    I’m pretty sure that’s not what they think - irrespective of party.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    Conservative donors have no influence on policy, insists Grant Shapps

    Conservative donors are not "immoral" and have no influence on government policy, minister Grant Shapps has insisted, amid cash-for-access claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58098887

    Err, what does he think they are paying for?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,051

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    In which case, given the EU already has its own currency, Parliament, President, representation at the G7 and G20 and will soon have its own army, if it has its own Olympics team too to replace the teams of the individual EU nations it would become a superstate in all but name.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
    I only list this stuff when things I have got wrong in the past are brought up to try to silence me.
    So when people point out things you got wrong you list things that others generally didn't say? Interesting.
    Isn;t it time for your booster yet? your third jab? and your flu jab?

    Your freedom depends on it....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,728
    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?

    He does have a lot of very cool race cars; Elva 100, Aston Martin DB2/4 and a few 70s rally cars.


    I think, personally, he's a decent enough bloke. I just think for the Remain/Rejoin side that I support he's completely counterproductive.
    I've always thought he's quite a laugh, and would be good for a pint down the pub, *provided* you don't ever get him onto the subject of Europe.

    As soon as you do he becomes a swivel-eyed, foam-flecked, arm-flaying raving nutter.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743

    Conservative donors have no influence on policy, insists Grant Shapps

    Conservative donors are not "immoral" and have no influence on government policy, minister Grant Shapps has insisted, amid cash-for-access claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58098887

    I'm bothered if I'd give loadsamoney to a party if I didn't think there was going to be something in it for me.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,787
    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?

    He does have a lot of very cool race cars; Elva 100, Aston Martin DB2/4 and a few 70s rally cars.


    I think, personally, he's a decent enough bloke. I just think for the Remain/Rejoin side that I support he's completely counterproductive.
    He was known as "Baby Thatcher" during his early years in Belgian politics and was held to be the porte-étendard of the worst type of Anglophone mercantilism.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
    Well I can remember you sometime ago selectively picking out death numbers in the States from the weekends to prove numbers were dropping when they were rocketing and continued doing so. You were spectacularly wrong on that point and you were called out for it by numerous posters.
    Almost everybody here was spectacularly wrong on the whole policy of lockdown.

    It was the best thing since sliced bread.

    And anyway, it must be time for your third jab soon. And your fourth.

    Your freedom depends on it!
  • kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
    I only list this stuff when things I have got wrong in the past are brought up to try to silence me.
    So when people point out things you got wrong you list things that others generally didn't say? Interesting.
    Isn;t it time for your booster yet? your third jab? and your flu jab?

    Your freedom depends on it....
    What point do you think you are making here?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
    Shapps actually said that "I think double vaccination or full vaccination is going to be a feature for evermore, and probably all countries will require full vaccination for you to enter.” So it's not just the government that is wrong where you are right, it's the whole world. The whole business is about 1% as onerous as the requirement to have an mot test for one's car. And if you don't want to get vaccinated and go abroad, guess what? It's a free country, and nobody is making you, so be happy.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    HYUFD said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    In which case, given the EU already has its own currency, Parliament, President, representation at the G7 and G20 and will soon have its own army, if it has its own Olympics team too to replace the teams of the individual EU nations it would become a superstate in all but name.
    Given that a lot of events are restricted to 2 people per country, who would treating the EU as a single country work in that scenario?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,127
    MaxPB said:

    Speaking of anti-vaxxers, my friend - currently in hospital with a kidney failure - has caught covid.

    Half the ward has it, and the theory is that it was brought in by an anti-vax nurse.

    Hopefully my friend - young, double vaxxed and already a covid veteran - will be fine.

    Hope they make it through without any issues!
    and the anti vax nurse should lose their job.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950

    kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Most on here did not think infections would rocket to 100,000 plus. A few on here did. I certainly didn't.
    Lockdowns have uses when there are no other tools. We should not need them again in England (UK) unless an external factor changes.
    I only list this stuff when things I have got wrong in the past are brought up to try to silence me.
    So when people point out things you got wrong you list things that others generally didn't say? Interesting.
    Isn;t it time for your booster yet? your third jab? and your flu jab?

    Your freedom depends on it....
    Getting to you eh?

    Yep I will get my 3rd jab when offered and yes I have had flu jabs since I became eligible because unlike you I am not a pillock.

    But no I am not tucked up, as you imagine we all are, in fear.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    Given your general frankness that '...erm...' pause intrigues me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Funny how many of the ‘respect the office, not the man/woman’ lads who persisted with this piety almost all the way through the Trumpageddon, can always find an exception.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
    Well I can remember you sometime ago selectively picking out death numbers in the States from the weekends to prove numbers were dropping when they were rocketing and continued doing so. You were spectacularly wrong on that point and you were called out for it by numerous posters.
    Almost everybody here was spectacularly wrong on the whole policy of lockdown.

    It was the best thing since sliced bread.

    And anyway, it must be time for your third jab soon. And your fourth.

    Your freedom depends on it!
    Satire: harder than it looks.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    Feck, Prince Philip moment for non-gammon auld cnuts (eg me) on the horizon?

    https://twitter.com/rollingstone/status/1423079055662985217?s=21
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Actually, the flu jab is one I probably will get because not forcibly being able to mix (a measure cheered to the rafters on here), has apparently made our immune systems less robust.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    In which case, given the EU already has its own currency, Parliament, President, representation at the G7 and G20 and will soon have its own army, if it has its own Olympics team too to replace the teams of the individual EU nations it would become a superstate in all but name.
    Given that a lot of events are restricted to 2 people per country, who would treating the EU as a single country work in that scenario?
    Not to mention the team sports. It's quite possible that in some, football or rowing for example, the EU could theoretically clean up all three medals while an actual country would, obviously, be restricted to a maximum of one. So collating medal totals for the EU or any collection of nations is ridiculous.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
    Well I can remember you sometime ago selectively picking out death numbers in the States from the weekends to prove numbers were dropping when they were rocketing and continued doing so. You were spectacularly wrong on that point and you were called out for it by numerous posters.
    Almost everybody here was spectacularly wrong on the whole policy of lockdown.

    It was the best thing since sliced bread.

    And anyway, it must be time for your third jab soon. And your fourth.

    Your freedom depends on it!
    Satire: harder than it looks.
    You not doing your pin cushion impression in the autumn then Ish....? You realise that will require backbone and independent thought though.....
  • DougSeal said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
    The EU 27 only has about 5 more golds than QE2's realms, I got bored of counting all their one gold countries
    Are you sure?

    U.K., Australia, NZ, Canada, Jamaica all have golds.
    16+17+7+4+3 = 47

    DE 9 IT 7 NE 7 FR 6 HU 5 CZ 4 PO 3 CR 3 SW 2 NO 2 GR 2 SL 2 gets us to 53

    and that's without any one gold countries, so they actually probably have about 10-15 more golds than Queenie's 5 countries
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Actually, the flu jab is one I probably will get because not forcibly being able to mix (a measure cheered to the rafters on here), has apparently made our immune systems less robust.
    So you'll get the flu jab but not the covid one, despite the latter being far more beneficial for you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,443
    Dura_Ace said:

    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?

    He does have a lot of very cool race cars; Elva 100, Aston Martin DB2/4 and a few 70s rally cars.


    BTW did you ever come across Jay Leno's equivalent?

    https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/jay-lenos-airplane-engine-collection-180977799/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    In which case, given the EU already has its own currency, Parliament, President, representation at the G7 and G20 and will soon have its own army, if it has its own Olympics team too to replace the teams of the individual EU nations it would become a superstate in all but name.
    Given that a lot of events are restricted to 2 people per country, who would treating the EU as a single country work in that scenario?
    No, it's just trolling by him and others.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,962

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pret, McColls and Welcome Break in minimum wage fail

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58083889

    Some of the example companies "named and shamed" are on the face of it extremely unfair. John Lewis, one case, 4 years ago. That is clearly a mistake, and probably some weird edge case, where their accounting software bugged out. A huge organisation making a single balls up 4 years ago isn't exactly trying to pull a fast one on workers.

    The report covers 2011 to 2018 which makes it hardly timely but cock-ups don't help when you are at the supermarket till and it is employers' responsibility to get it right. From your link:-

    The government acknowledged that many of the breaches were not intentional, but said the minimum wage laws were meant to ensure that a fair day's work received a fair day's pay.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58083889
    Nitpicking and a megaphone have been the technique since they started.

    No idea why.
    Since who started? It's the government.
    Since the performative enforcement farrago started around 2014. Overwhelmingly marginal offences followed by ludicrous high-profile name and shame, followed by the Guardian wetting its pants, and TU leaders launching another broadside smearing today's convenient target. Various think tanks and commissions get to try and justify their own existence by sanctimonious press statements.

    Much of it has been to do with weirdly complex regulations, and it is nearly always marginal or technical breaches. And sometimes because what employees and employers do by agreement does not match the dot and tittle.

    This time the sh*t has hit John Lewis John Lewis when they actually pay way over minimum wage. Here's the explanation:

    John Lewis Partnership spokesman said: “This was a technical breach that happened four years ago, has been fixed and which we ourselves made public at the time.

    “The issue arose because the Partnership smooths pay so that Partners with variable pay get the same amount each month, helping them to budget."


    The name and shame as implemented is ill-considered, disproportionate, and entirely pathetic.

    One for Great Jumping Jolyon, but he won't because he normally does political campaigns whilst hiding under a wig.
    Aiui the name-and-shame is by the government, not by any news organisations or campaigning groups.

    As for any particular instance, I've already said it is old news because the report covers pre-2018 cases. However, it is surely any large employer's responsibility to get the details right and not hide behind misunderstood technicalities – it is their job to get the details, the technicalities, right. The victims are the minimum wage employees who were short-changed, and not the firms who underpaid them.
    I think the absurd name-and-shame policy is probably Dave Cameron trying to be warm and cuddly back in 2014, and we are sstuck with the legacy.

    On the "good business comply" thing - yes, in principle, but it requires decent regulations and reasonable enforcement. If the technicalities prevent employees being treated as they wish, then it is bad regulation.

    It is the oldest trick in the book to turn X into a public-enemy by creating over-complex or impractical regulation, then blaming them for not meeting it.

    Current rental regulation is a good example. Nottingham City Council have an office block full of pen pushers, some of whom spend their time on pettifogging enforcement which drives LLs out of the rent-to-housing-benefit tenants market, while people in the next room are desparately phoning around Lettings Agents wanting properties to rent. I wonder why it doesn't work?
  • OT Britain's Matt Walls is leading the Omnium on the telly now. He carries my £5. I have no idea what is going on in this event.

    Reinvested a tenner in Holly's pole vault (on next).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Guy Verhofstadt is certain poster on pb shock?

    He does have a lot of very cool race cars; Elva 100, Aston Martin DB2/4 and a few 70s rally cars.


    I think, personally, he's a decent enough bloke. I just think for the Remain/Rejoin side that I support he's completely counterproductive.
    I've always thought he's quite a laugh, and would be good for a pint down the pub, *provided* you don't ever get him onto the subject of Europe.

    As soon as you do he becomes a swivel-eyed, foam-flecked, arm-flaying raving nutter.
    Obviously I’m a Remainer, but I do like Verhofstadt. Also Donald Tusk was class.
    Even Juncker was a gas.

    Prefer all of them to the conspicuous incompetence and petty insecurity of Van der Leyen.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
    The EU 27 only has about 5 more golds than QE2's realms, I got bored of counting all their one gold countries
    Are you sure?

    U.K., Australia, NZ, Canada, Jamaica all have golds.
    16+17+7+4+3 = 47

    DE 9 IT 7 NE 7 FR 6 HU 5 CZ 4 PO 3 CR 3 SW 2 NO 2 GR 2 SL 2 gets us to 53

    and that's without any one gold countries, so they actually probably have about 10-15 more golds than Queenie's 5 countries
    NO? Norway's not in the EU.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Actually, the flu jab is one I probably will get because not forcibly being able to mix (a measure cheered to the rafters on here), has apparently made our immune systems less robust.
    So you'll get the flu jab but not the covid one, despite the latter being far more beneficial for you.
    My judgement is that a year without mixing means flu has a much greater chance of f8cking me than covid.

    Absolutely.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,787
    edited August 2021
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    Given your general frankness that '...erm...' pause intrigues me.
    They only got rid of me because they were shit scared that I was going to top myself on MoD premises not because of the many infractions that adorned my glittering career.

    The captain of a Trident boat recently got relieved of command when he got caught fucking a JEngO at sea. His next job was head of HR at a major shore establishment!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320

    DougSeal said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
    The EU 27 only has about 5 more golds than QE2's realms, I got bored of counting all their one gold countries
    Are you sure?

    U.K., Australia, NZ, Canada, Jamaica all have golds.
    16+17+7+4+3 = 47

    DE 9 IT 7 NE 7 FR 6 HU 5 CZ 4 PO 3 CR 3 SW 2 NO 2 GR 2 SL 2 gets us to 53

    and that's without any one gold countries, so they actually probably have about 10-15 more golds than Queenie's 5 countries
    Yeah, you’re right. :(
    We do have Bermuda. 1 Gold.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    So you agree that all your predictions turned out to be wrong.

    I'll tell you what I predicted.

    And that was Delta wouldn't reach the level of cases we had in the winter and that hospitalisations would max out at 15% of the winter peak.

    A simple enough prediction based on what happened in Bolton and Blackburn in May and June.
    Not at all.

    I have always maintained, since June last year. that the UK's lockdown strategy was the biggest policy mistake by any British government in peacetime, ever, and I completely stick to that point.

    I have always argued that some scientists have an agenda away from angelic philanthropy and I completely adhere to that view.

    I also still adhere to the view that when we gave up our freedoms we would never get them back in the way we knew them before March 2020.

    and right on cue, Grant Shapps confirmed that today when he stated vaccine passports for travel will be eternal.

    I completely adhere to the main thrust of every argument I have made on here, unlike almost everybody else.
    Well I can remember you sometime ago selectively picking out death numbers in the States from the weekends to prove numbers were dropping when they were rocketing and continued doing so. You were spectacularly wrong on that point and you were called out for it by numerous posters.
    Almost everybody here was spectacularly wrong on the whole policy of lockdown.

    It was the best thing since sliced bread.

    And anyway, it must be time for your third jab soon. And your fourth.

    Your freedom depends on it!
    Satire: harder than it looks.
    You not doing your pin cushion impression in the autumn then Ish....? You realise that will require backbone and independent thought though.....
    To not do it also requires stupidity.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Tbh I'd sign up for a vaccine to the common cold now if they were available even though I barely get them, and when I do they're light. The likes of @contrarian have moved me very much even further in favour of vaccination for all viruses.
    And quite frankly I wouldn't say no to see a two tier society with the likes of @Rural_Voter (Who is considerably madder than contrarian) locked in his home.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    In which case, given the EU already has its own currency, Parliament, President, representation at the G7 and G20 and will soon have its own army, if it has its own Olympics team too to replace the teams of the individual EU nations it would become a superstate in all but name.
    Given that a lot of events are restricted to 2 people per country, who would treating the EU as a single country work in that scenario?
    No, it's just trolling by him and others.
    In that case plenty wriggling in the catch net it would appear..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Conservative donors have no influence on policy, insists Grant Shapps

    Conservative donors are not "immoral" and have no influence on government policy, minister Grant Shapps has insisted, amid cash-for-access claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58098887

    I'm bothered if I'd give loadsamoney to a party if I didn't think there was going to be something in it for me.
    Pretty much everyone who has ever talked to a politician, whether in their MP surgery, or at the annual black tie £25k a table party dinner, is looking for something for themselves or their business.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,443

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    is this the same people who confidently predicted there would be 100,000 cases by now?

    Yep.

    "Lead author and Independent SAGE member Professor Christina Pagel"

    iSAGE can sure move quickly on to new terrain when one of their predictions or prescriptions implodes without pausing for breath.
    They have been an absolute disgrace throughout. Alarmist, misleading, useless. I would very much hope that their professional bodies, where they have them, have taken note and are considering charges of bringing the profession into disrepute.
    One thing I am curious about is whether all their respective universities have agreed to the secondment to iSAGE? For some of them at least this has got to be a full time job. I mean they are never off 24 hour news. So they have presumably sought and recvd permission to put down their day jobs doing research with measured outputs?
    Most universities will just love having their ‘stars’ in the media, and not worry too much what they say. And dont forget, pb is not representative of the nation. Remember 17% want a lockdown right now. For all that many of us on here think they are at best misguided, that is probably not the majority view amongst many of the still very scared.
    Indeed. Most unis would be v happy as their name always appears in the title of the person on TV. Those lumps of £9K don't just walk through the door. But when I worked in unis you would still need permission to be away from the day job like this.
    Generally academics don't need permission to do outside activities unless paid (surely not the case here, and in fact some academic contracts do permit up to x days paid outside work) or there is a conflict of interest with University business.

    I have little respect for the way certain academics have conducted themselves in this pandemic, and even less for the media who promote extreme views with no balance or challenge, but I believe the solution to academics talking nonsense is to ignore them, not to silence them.

    --AS
    Isn't there a positive requirement to do public understanding and interpretation anyway? Such that media contacts are seen as a positive credit for the person and the uni.
    It's a sort of encouragement rather than a requirement. One of those things where the University wants it to happen but doesn't in any way reward it or give credit for doing public engagement at the cost of something else (a few special roles excepted).

    And to be honest you'd want to keep at least half of my colleagues well away from the press at all times...

    --AS

    PS: True story. Royal Holloway was having a crisis of recruitment to its computer security group, until a certain Dan Brown wrote a novel in which a (cool and attractive) female French cryptographer had studied there. Applications to their crypto programme went through the roof. Public engagement with fictional science may be the best kind.
    Thanks for the comments.

    Jurassic Park was great for palaeontology, I believe, and CSI for forensics/anthropology ...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Are we at 100,000 cases yet Alistair? Must be soon. You told us we would be.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Actually, the flu jab is one I probably will get because not forcibly being able to mix (a measure cheered to the rafters on here), has apparently made our immune systems less robust.
    So you'll get the flu jab but not the covid one, despite the latter being far more beneficial for you.
    My judgement is that a year without mixing means flu has a much greater chance of f8cking me than covid.

    Absolutely.
    Any scientific evidence to back that up? Covid is far more serious than the flu, especially as you get older.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    is this the same people who confidently predicted there would be 100,000 cases by now?

    Yep.

    "Lead author and Independent SAGE member Professor Christina Pagel"

    iSAGE can sure move quickly on to new terrain when one of their predictions or prescriptions implodes without pausing for breath.
    They have been an absolute disgrace throughout. Alarmist, misleading, useless. I would very much hope that their professional bodies, where they have them, have taken note and are considering charges of bringing the profession into disrepute.
    One thing I am curious about is whether all their respective universities have agreed to the secondment to iSAGE? For some of them at least this has got to be a full time job. I mean they are never off 24 hour news. So they have presumably sought and recvd permission to put down their day jobs doing research with measured outputs?
    Most universities will just love having their ‘stars’ in the media, and not worry too much what they say. And dont forget, pb is not representative of the nation. Remember 17% want a lockdown right now. For all that many of us on here think they are at best misguided, that is probably not the majority view amongst many of the still very scared.
    Indeed. Most unis would be v happy as their name always appears in the title of the person on TV. Those lumps of £9K don't just walk through the door. But when I worked in unis you would still need permission to be away from the day job like this.
    Generally academics don't need permission to do outside activities unless paid (surely not the case here, and in fact some academic contracts do permit up to x days paid outside work) or there is a conflict of interest with University business.

    I have little respect for the way certain academics have conducted themselves in this pandemic, and even less for the media who promote extreme views with no balance or challenge, but I believe the solution to academics talking nonsense is to ignore them, not to silence them.

    --AS
    Isn't there a positive requirement to do public understanding and interpretation anyway? Such that media contacts are seen as a positive credit for the person and the uni.
    It's a sort of encouragement rather than a requirement. One of those things where the University wants it to happen but doesn't in any way reward it or give credit for doing public engagement at the cost of something else (a few special roles excepted).

    And to be honest you'd want to keep at least half of my colleagues well away from the press at all times...

    --AS

    PS: True story. Royal Holloway was having a crisis of recruitment to its computer security group, until a certain Dan Brown wrote a novel in which a (cool and attractive) female French cryptographer had studied there. Applications to their crypto programme went through the roof. Public engagement with fictional science may be the best kind.
    Thanks for the comments.

    Jurassic Park was great for palaeontology, I believe, and CSI for forensics/anthropology ...
    CSI was terrible for the criminal law though. Juries, especially in the States, tended to treat prosecution forensic evidence as infallable as a result of watching it.
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    "Fun fact: EU combined has more gold medals than US or China #TokyoOlympics

    I’d love to see the EU flag next to the national on athletes’ clothes.

    Our identity is layered - we’re proud Italians, Latvians, Germans, Slovenians... and Europeans. Our sports should reflect that"

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1423216531282989056

    Now an official line?

    Again, as has been pointed out to a certain poster, it's the fact that the EU is 27 countries that allows them the number of athletes required to obtain so many medals.
    The EU 27 only has about 5 more golds than QE2's realms, I got bored of counting all their one gold countries
    Are you sure?

    U.K., Australia, NZ, Canada, Jamaica all have golds.
    16+17+7+4+3 = 47

    DE 9 IT 7 NE 7 FR 6 HU 5 CZ 4 PO 3 CR 3 SW 2 NO 2 GR 2 SL 2 gets us to 53

    and that's without any one gold countries, so they actually probably have about 10-15 more golds than Queenie's 5 countries
    NO? Norway's not in the EU.
    True. I meant to remove them, not Denmark (also on 2G)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,443

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Funny how many of the ‘respect the office, not the man/woman’ lads who persisted with this piety almost all the way through the Trumpageddon, can always find an exception.
    Quite so. Makes one wonder why they even bother with the concept of the United Kingdom at all.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Actually, the flu jab is one I probably will get because not forcibly being able to mix (a measure cheered to the rafters on here), has apparently made our immune systems less robust.
    So you'll get the flu jab but not the covid one, despite the latter being far more beneficial for you.
    My judgement is that a year without mixing means flu has a much greater chance of f8cking me than covid.

    Absolutely.
    Any scientific evidence to back that up? Covid is far more serious than the flu, especially as you get older.
    Sans lockdown, you would probably be correct. A year without mixing, without giving our immune systems the workouts they usually get? Dunno.


  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Some discussion about comparing the Olympic performance of different countries. Whether to use the number of golds or total medals etc.
    The medal table implies a partial order since we can only say that gold > silver > bronze. A Hasse diagram depicts the partial order here, for countries with three or more golds, based on the BBC's medal table this morning.
    Strict comparison is only possible for countries connected in a sequence as shown on the diagram.


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,443
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
    Well we probably agree that Whitehall’s approach to Scotland has been disastrous.

    But I’m fed up with Nicola.
    She is largely given a free ride by the media, too, even though she wants to BREAK UP MY COUNTRY.
    Please be precise: your state. Noit your country.

    Not this crap again.

    Nationalists rightly dont like being told their view of nationality is invalid. Unionists rightly dont like it either.

    Country status is inherently arbitrary as all matters of borders and identity are. They are real if people consider them real, and if they can persuade others internationally they can get recognised.

    Insulting people by saying their country is not a country is just being impolite for no reason, since theres no objective reality to it.

    The UK is my country. England is too, in this country of countries. It is perfectly ok for people to not feel the same and to want to break up either of those entities or indeed both. But they don't get to determine what others feel anymore than I could determine they feel.
    Already discussed to some extent: his different perspective noted and acknowledged.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    There's an easy test for complete idiots because complete idiots mock the flu jab.

    Because they are idiots and don't understand what the flu is.

    I had it and it was fucking awful. I get the flu jab now every year because I never, ever want to get the flu again.

    Actually, the flu jab is one I probably will get because not forcibly being able to mix (a measure cheered to the rafters on here), has apparently made our immune systems less robust.
    So you'll get the flu jab but not the covid one, despite the latter being far more beneficial for you.
    My judgement is that a year without mixing means flu has a much greater chance of f8cking me than covid.

    Absolutely.
    Any scientific evidence to back that up? Covid is far more serious than the flu, especially as you get older.
    Sans lockdown, you would probably be correct. A year without mixing, without giving our immune systems the workouts they usually get? Dunno.


    I’ll take that as a no.
This discussion has been closed.