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The changed perceptions of government performance since GE2019 – politicalbetting.com

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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Simon Gleave, head of sports analysis, Nielsen Gracenote says: "Great Britain have closed the gap with the Rio and London Olympics and now have 48 medals after 12 days of competition compared to 49 in 2016 and 48 in 2012.

    "However, at both of those Olympics, sailing, taekwondo and triathlon were still going on in the last four days of the Games so expect 2021 to fall behind again on total medals won."

    Again, I would draw attention to the high ratio of gold to silver medals for Japan and Australia.

    Rank Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
    1 China 32 22 16 70
    2 USA 25 31 23 79
    3 Japan 21 7 12 40
    4 Great Britain 15 18 15 48
    5 Australia 15 4 17 36
    6 ROC 14 21 18 53
    7 Germany 8 8 16 32
    8 France 6 10 9 25
    9 Italy 6 9 15 30
    10 Netherlands 6 8 9 23
    If this means they have less strength in depth than other countries, then so be it. But if it instead means that Japan and Australia are better at turning their contenders into champions, then if we could emulate that then we'd be in the top three countries for gold medals, and possibly the top two. Take Australia's gold and silver medals: they have 19, of which 15, or 80 per cent, are gold. Britain has 33, and 80 per cent would mean 26 gold medals (and 7 silver).

    Obviously life is not like that but it does suggest there might be more to play for.
    My bet on China topping the table for Golds looking good.

    Clearly we narrowly missed out on more so with a bit more could get more.

    On a Medals per capita basis* I think Australia would be top, then the Netherlands, then us.

    *not sure how this works further down the table. I think the Mongolians do well at wrestling.
    Norway in the winter olympics must be a big per-capita over-achievement.

    Take out those nations that have hosted the summer Games since Atlanta and of the rest you have in order the remnant Russians followed by Germany, New Zealand, Italy and France.
    On Australia, the key reason they have moved up from 2016 is in swimming - 9 of their Golds are swimming vs 3 in 2016, as are 3 of their 4 Silvers. In fact, virtually Australia's whole Gold medal base bar two is water base as they have also gained in Rowing and Sailing. There is an argument for saying Australia's performance has benefitted from other nations going backwards - the US in swimming and (lesser) GB in rowing and one or two other water based areas.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    I've read the book and report by the outside investigators on the Iowa B turret explosion. It certainly gives a different picture from the original USN explanations of suicide by 16" rifle, perhaps arising from a spurned love affair between two matelots (IIRC).

    I see the BHR matelot is being accused in part that he "showed disdain towards authority and the US Navy". I don't know what the USN is like these days, but at least in my dad's time, if abunch of RN sailor WEREN'T vocally expressing suchb opinions about the RN (and the USN too of course), that was the time for their officers to worry.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    There's a real sense amongst that lot that the mere act of vaccination is inherently both wicked and dangerous. And because children aren't at risk from Covid the all powerful NAZI NUREMBERG CODE BREAKING STATE WILL KILL THEIR KIDS.
    AND THEY SHOUT AND WAIL AND SCREAM
    The Gloop crowd are especially... special on this one. I will have to find you the message from the one who discovered that her 18 year old had got the vaccination. So she held half a lemon to the vaccination injection site, to suck out the Bad Stuff.

    I am trying to imagine the thought process in the 18 years head, while he submitted to this.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    Flippant answer: they are Brexiters, so the nutjobbery is baked in.

    Actual answer: something about the overweening power of the state to control the bodies of our children. I feel it myself, even though my rational head knows we vaccinate children for lots of things.
    But vaccinations against infectious diseases are already commonplace for children at all sorts of ages and although non-compulsory have a very wide take-up.

    The parent can make a choice but I think most would encourage their teenagers to get it.

    I have no time for the anti MMR mob, and I don't think this is any different.
    It's not, although the cost benefit for under 18s is, I think, significantly greater for the MMR vaccine ?
  • Options

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    Wouldn't a reasonable right-wing libertarian position be that vaccination is made available to children but there is no pressure on them or their parents to accept it? Cases where worried 17-year-olds with equally worried parents are actually forbidden to have a vaccination which has been cleared as safe for the young doesn't seem very libertarian to me - more like the State telling families what they must not do.
    That is the reasonable right wing libertarian position.

    But being reasonable and supporting individual choice does not get you attention on twatter - you have to be either 100% for something or 100% against something.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    The PM & the Chancellor have put out a hugely important statement on the future of investment in the UK.

    They've put down the challenge to UK investment funds to invest in the UK & committed to long-awaited policy reforms... a Thread on why this matters.


    https://twitter.com/jpwiseuk/status/1423044683366866946?s=20
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,232

    Sandpit said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    I can't speak for them, but I feel there's a widely-held belief that kids don't suffer from Covid, and therefore any risk from vaccines is greater than the risk from Covid.

    Most (?all?) of us on here know it's more complex than that:; kids can suffer, and even die, from Covid, and they can spread it through the rest of the population.
    They’re a similar group to those who styled themselves as ‘anti-lockdown’, where of course the definition of ‘lockdown’ was a constantly moving feast.

    There are reasonable arguments to be made in favour of what they wish, but they are making the most silly and disengenuous arguments instead.

    Same as the ‘Independent SAGE’ mob on the other side.
    I actually have far more sympathy with an anti-lockdown or even anti-mask case being made - in many cases outwith confined poorly ventilated spaces masks are now just a social convention and act as a bit of a placebo - because we faced an unprecedented loss of civil liberties and I like the fact a challenge was put up to that; once controls are in place the State is generally reluctant to lift them, and gets an appetite for more.

    I have no sympathy with an anti-vaccine case, which I think is barmy, and struggle to respect those who conflate and confuse the two.
    I would have much preferred if the government had stuck to guidance and advice, than passing laws to control who is allowed into my private residence.

    A government of a democracy should be able to lead its people to follow such guidance by appealing to self-interest and community solidarity.

    But I have no respect for those who were anti-lockdown who used the argument that the virus wasn't dangerous. The implication is that, if the virus was dangerous then it would be fine for the government to use the law in the heavy-handed way it did.

    I'm sure that's not what they think, and so it was a dishonest argument.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    It would be great if Sunil or someone could calculate Team ERII or Team Commonwealth’s medal haul just so Stuart Dickson would fuck off.
    This is mean to Stuart Dickson, and I repent.
    But I found his seemingly drunken comments last night very irksome.

    Sorry Stuart. But you are a bit irksome.
    I’m going to use that word more myself.“Irksome”. Like it.
    vexatious is good.
    pestiferous is splendid
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    The NHS has lost its prestigious ranking as the best health system in a study of 11 rich countries by an influential US thinktank.

    The UK has fallen from first to fourth in the Commonwealth Fund’s latest analysis of the performance of the healthcare systems in the nations it studied.

    Norway, the Netherlands and Australia now provide better care than the UK, it found. The findings are a blow to the NHS, which had been the top-rated system in the thinktank’s two previous reports in 2017 and 2014. The US had by far the worst-rated system, despite spending the most on care.

    I think that it will take the NHS much longer to recover than other nations systems. The reason is that the NHS is designed to ration care by limiting capacity, so there is no slack in the system available for catch up. This is the flipside of the redundancy and duplication of other systems.

    There is the absence of financial incentives to take on more work too as we are all salaried rather than on piece rates like many countries.
    That's a very good summary of the strengths and weaknesses of the NHS.
    No it isn't because the NHS is not designed to ration by limiting capacity. The point is to maximise utilisation of expensive capital equipment: just think of @rcs1000's beloved productivity figures! Of course, the corollary of high use is low spare capacity, which in normal times means a patient might sometimes need to be sent further away. It breaks down when everyone gets ill at the same time, such as the annual winter flu crisis, but that can be dismissed as lefties crying wolf about 24 hours to save the NHS, again! and is self-correcting. This pandemic is testing that model almost to destruction.

    The effect is as @Foxy says, to ration by limited capacity, but that was not the intention, just its inevitable by-product.
    I think that amounts to the same thing: the capacity of the NHS is finite and limited by its budget, but it has potentially unlimited demand given its services are "free-at-the-point-of-use".

    Therefore, it has to make priority decisions and ration the rest.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tomorrow’s announcement today:

    A number of key destinations as well as international travel hubs will be removed from the red list – India, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE. India’s placement on the red list was the subject of substantial controversy after MPs accused Boris Johnson of delaying its inclusion in the spring as cases rapidly rose and the new Delta variant emerged.

    Mexico, Georgia, Réunion and Mayotte are to be added to the red list. More countries will also be added to the green list where travellers can go regardless of vaccine status. New green list countries are Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, Romania and Norway. All changes come into effect at 4am on Sunday 8 August in England.

    That statement is inaccurate. The green list is a list of countries where travellers can return from without quarantine. New Zealand is on the green list, good luck going there.
    It’s also very asymmetric. People travelling from the Middle East countries back to the UK are only exempt from quarantine if they were vaccinated in the UK. Not if they were vaccinated abroad.

    It’s still a minimum of five days’ quarantine (with the expensive test-to-release scheme) if I travel from UAE to UK, even though I had two UK-approved Pfizer vaccines.
    Son-in-Thailand has had two vaccine shots, but with Sinovac. Doesn't think he'll be allowed into the UK without quarantine plus the scheme to which Mr S refers, if at all.
    Eventually he will, unless the UK doesn’t want any tourists from China anymore.
    It’s getting there slowly, but international agreements are stilll taking time.

    If everyone trusted the WHO-approved vaccines, life would be easier, but Western governments don’t trust them with respect to the Chinese vaccines.

    At least my parents can now visit me in November, with no quarantine in either direction. Will be nearly three years since I last saw them.
    July 2019 when we last saw Son-in-Thailand and his family. Youngest Granddaughter (age 7) assured us the other day that they're coming for Christmas but I'm by no means convinced.
    Would be good if they could. Or we could go there, but the idea of an 11 hour flight, possibly masked isn't at all attractive.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    The PM & the Chancellor have put out a hugely important statement on the future of investment in the UK.

    They've put down the challenge to UK investment funds to invest in the UK & committed to long-awaited policy reforms... a Thread on why this matters.


    https://twitter.com/jpwiseuk/status/1423044683366866946?s=20

    FDI has fallen by 1/3 since Brexit.
    So we’re definitely going to need to do something because it’s a primary source of productivity improvement where our performance since 2010 has been appalling.
  • Options

    The PM & the Chancellor have put out a hugely important statement on the future of investment in the UK.

    They've put down the challenge to UK investment funds to invest in the UK & committed to long-awaited policy reforms... a Thread on why this matters.


    https://twitter.com/jpwiseuk/status/1423044683366866946?s=20

    Does this mean they've binned Dominic Cummings' plan for more state investment in the tech sector? It looks slightly risky for pension funds. Is that how it works in America or do we want specialist venture capital funds?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    The NHS has lost its prestigious ranking as the best health system in a study of 11 rich countries by an influential US thinktank.

    The UK has fallen from first to fourth in the Commonwealth Fund’s latest analysis of the performance of the healthcare systems in the nations it studied.

    Norway, the Netherlands and Australia now provide better care than the UK, it found. The findings are a blow to the NHS, which had been the top-rated system in the thinktank’s two previous reports in 2017 and 2014. The US had by far the worst-rated system, despite spending the most on care.

    I think that it will take the NHS much longer to recover than other nations systems. The reason is that the NHS is designed to ration care by limiting capacity, so there is no slack in the system available for catch up. This is the flipside of the redundancy and duplication of other systems.

    There is the absence of financial incentives to take on more work too as we are all salaried rather than on piece rates like many countries.
    That's a very good summary of the strengths and weaknesses of the NHS.
    No it isn't because the NHS is not designed to ration by limiting capacity. The point is to maximise utilisation of expensive capital equipment: just think of @rcs1000's beloved productivity figures! Of course, the corollary of high use is low spare capacity, which in normal times means a patient might sometimes need to be sent further away. It breaks down when everyone gets ill at the same time, such as the annual winter flu crisis, but that can be dismissed as lefties crying wolf about 24 hours to save the NHS, again! and is self-correcting. This pandemic is testing that model almost to destruction.

    The effect is as @Foxy says, to ration by limited capacity, but that was not the intention, just its inevitable by-product.
    I think that amounts to the same thing: the capacity of the NHS is finite and limited by its budget, but it has potentially unlimited demand given its services are "free-at-the-point-of-use".

    Therefore, it has to make priority decisions and ration the rest.
    OTOH, there is much less incentive to call for tests and procedures because they make a profit for the decision maker and his/her corporation, which is another way of expressing Foxy's point. That makes it more efficient.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Xi has been reading @kinabalu 's little red book ?
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/08/05/business/china-business-crackdown-xi-speeches/
    ...As $1 trillion evaporated from Chinese stocks last week, some investors realized they hadn’t paid enough attention to the country’s most important man: President Xi Jinping.

    Traders began scouring databases and other collections of Xi’s speeches to find clues about which industries might be next after his administration abruptly smashed the country’s $100 billion for-profit education sector, according to several employees at Chinese financial firms who asked not to be identified. Screenshots of key passages made the rounds: Xi denouncing “obscene” online content, education inequality and housing-price speculation in school districts.

    The jitters continued this week, with Tencent Holdings Ltd. shares plunging after the Economic Information Daily — an offshoot of the official Xinhua News Agency — decried the “spiritual opium” of online gaming, sparking worries that the sector might be next on the chopping block...

    Reading the signals from Beijing has always been a crucial component of doing business in China. But the abrupt education overhaul has prompted even seasoned investors to reassess how they interpret statements from Xi and top officials in his government — a task made more difficult by the fact that many of his speeches are classified and only made available to the party elite....
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    I've read the book and report by the outside investigators on the Iowa B turret explosion. It certainly gives a different picture from the original USN explanations of suicide by 16" rifle, perhaps arising from a spurned love affair between two matelots (IIRC).

    I see the BHR matelot is being accused in part that he "showed disdain towards authority and the US Navy". I don't know what the USN is like these days, but at least in my dad's time, if abunch of RN sailor WEREN'T vocally expressing suchb opinions about the RN (and the USN too of course), that was the time for their officers to worry.
    5 minutes reading on what happened on the Iowa, makes me wonder why every single reactivated battleship didn't explode.

    - 40+ year old propellant charges
    - propellant charges known to have been stored in inappropriate, varying conditions
    - propellant charges that had an original life of a year or 2
    - So, the untrained, hobbyist in charge of gunnery starts mixing propellant between bags. At this point Gunner Grant is turning in his grave at 12,000 rpm
    - The turret ramming system was known to over ram - crushing the propellant.....
    - Maintenance was all over the place.
    - Few people knew how this ancient stuff worked. Alot of it had undocumented quirks...
    - Then the hobbyist chap wanted to fire super charges. Extra large amounts of propellant....

  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    Wouldn't a reasonable right-wing libertarian position be that vaccination is made available to children but there is no pressure on them or their parents to accept it? Cases where worried 17-year-olds with equally worried parents are actually forbidden to have a vaccination which has been cleared as safe for the young doesn't seem very libertarian to me - more like the State telling families what they must not do.
    That is the reasonable right wing libertarian position.

    But being reasonable and supporting individual choice does not get you attention on twatter - you have to be either 100% for something or 100% against something.
    Absolutely, and it is not just attention, it also drives hard cold cash, the twitterati make a good living out of being passionately and loudly extreme and controversial.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Can anyone explain how the world record for the women's 4x100 metres relay can be 40.82 secs when the world record for the women's 100 metres is 10.49 secs?

    The quickest first 10 metres of MEN's sprinting ever recorded is 1.67 seconds. The women's 60 metre WR is 6.92. Accelerating to ~ 23 mph isn't instantaneous.
    If you divide a 400 metre sprint into 4 x 100 blocs the fastest 100 metres a 400 metre sprinter runs is the second of the 4, or metres 101-200, because he has a running start but hasn't started to tire yet.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938
    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?

    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tomorrow’s announcement today:

    A number of key destinations as well as international travel hubs will be removed from the red list – India, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE. India’s placement on the red list was the subject of substantial controversy after MPs accused Boris Johnson of delaying its inclusion in the spring as cases rapidly rose and the new Delta variant emerged.

    Mexico, Georgia, Réunion and Mayotte are to be added to the red list. More countries will also be added to the green list where travellers can go regardless of vaccine status. New green list countries are Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, Romania and Norway. All changes come into effect at 4am on Sunday 8 August in England.

    That statement is inaccurate. The green list is a list of countries where travellers can return from without quarantine. New Zealand is on the green list, good luck going there.
    It’s also very asymmetric. People travelling from the Middle East countries back to the UK are only exempt from quarantine if they were vaccinated in the UK. Not if they were vaccinated abroad.

    It’s still a minimum of five days’ quarantine (with the expensive test-to-release scheme) if I travel from UAE to UK, even though I had two UK-approved Pfizer vaccines.
    Son-in-Thailand has had two vaccine shots, but with Sinovac. Doesn't think he'll be allowed into the UK without quarantine plus the scheme to which Mr S refers, if at all.
    Eventually he will, unless the UK doesn’t want any tourists from China anymore.
    It’s getting there slowly, but international agreements are stilll taking time.

    If everyone trusted the WHO-approved vaccines, life would be easier, but Western governments don’t trust them with respect to the Chinese vaccines.

    At least my parents can now visit me in November, with no quarantine in either direction. Will be nearly three years since I last saw them.
    July 2019 when we last saw Son-in-Thailand and his family. Youngest Granddaughter (age 7) assured us the other day that they're coming for Christmas but I'm by no means convinced.
    Would be good if they could. Or we could go there, but the idea of an 11 hour flight, possibly masked isn't at all attractive.
    Good luck!

    I think I’ve said it before on here, but the attitude of the media that travel restrictions are all about getting a week on the beach, is really annoying to those who haven’t seen family for years, or who have business that needs to be done in other countries.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719
    edited August 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    I've read the book and report by the outside investigators on the Iowa B turret explosion. It certainly gives a different picture from the original USN explanations of suicide by 16" rifle, perhaps arising from a spurned love affair between two matelots (IIRC).

    I see the BHR matelot is being accused in part that he "showed disdain towards authority and the US Navy". I don't know what the USN is like these days, but at least in my dad's time, if abunch of RN sailor WEREN'T vocally expressing suchb opinions about the RN (and the USN too of course), that was the time for their officers to worry.
    5 minutes reading on what happened on the Iowa, makes me wonder why every single reactivated battleship didn't explode.

    - 40+ year old propellant charges
    - propellant charges known to have been stored in inappropriate, varying conditions
    - propellant charges that had an original life of a year or 2
    - So, the untrained, hobbyist in charge of gunnery starts mixing propellant between bags. At this point Gunner Grant is turning in his grave at 12,000 rpm
    - The turret ramming system was known to over ram - crushing the propellant.....
    - Maintenance was all over the place.
    - Few people knew how this ancient stuff worked. Alot of it had undocumented quirks...
    - Then the hobbyist chap wanted to fire super charges. Extra large amounts of propellant....

    PLus two known explosions albeit before WW2.

    Oh yes, and THEN there was the investigation ... just a little bit of the Wikipedia entry on the sabotage-suicide theory:

    "Sandia's chemical and materials analysis group, headed by James Borders, investigated further the theory about a chemical igniter. Navy technicians stated that the discovery under the center gun's projectile's rotating band of minute steel-wool fibers that were encrusted with calcium and chlorine, a fragment of polyethylene terephthalate (commonly used in plastic bags), and different glycols, including brake fluid, hypochlorite, antifreeze, and Brylcreem together indicated the use of a chemical igniter. The Navy was unable to locate the steel-wool fiber evidence for Borders to examine. No untouched portions of the rotating band remained and Sandia was provided with a section to examine that had already been examined by the FBI. Borders' team examined the rotating band and did not find any traces of polyethylene terephthalate. The team found that the glycols present actually came from the Break-Free cleaning solution which had been dumped into the center gun's barrel to help free the projectile after the explosion. The team also found that calcium and chlorine were present in Iowa's other gun turrets and in the gun turrets of the other Iowa-class battleships, and that this was indicative of routine exposure to a maritime environment. Borders concluded that ordinary sources accounted for all of the "foreign materials" found by the Navy on the center gun projectile, and that the theory that a chemical igniter had been used to cause the explosion was extremely doubtful."

    I like the deadpan comment that one might find sea salt in a battleship gun turret at sea ...

    As for the BHR, it woiuldn't be the first time some ****wit sailor (whoever that might be, and I'm not suggesting the USN have the right person) had left bottles of turps open when heading off to the canteen ...

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    I've read the book and report by the outside investigators on the Iowa B turret explosion. It certainly gives a different picture from the original USN explanations of suicide by 16" rifle, perhaps arising from a spurned love affair between two matelots (IIRC).

    I see the BHR matelot is being accused in part that he "showed disdain towards authority and the US Navy". I don't know what the USN is like these days, but at least in my dad's time, if abunch of RN sailor WEREN'T vocally expressing suchb opinions about the RN (and the USN too of course), that was the time for their officers to worry.
    5 minutes reading on what happened on the Iowa, makes me wonder why every single reactivated battleship didn't explode.

    - 40+ year old propellant charges
    - propellant charges known to have been stored in inappropriate, varying conditions
    - propellant charges that had an original life of a year or 2
    - So, the untrained, hobbyist in charge of gunnery starts mixing propellant between bags. At this point Gunner Grant is turning in his grave at 12,000 rpm
    - The turret ramming system was known to over ram - crushing the propellant.....
    - Maintenance was all over the place.
    - Few people knew how this ancient stuff worked. Alot of it had undocumented quirks...
    - Then the hobbyist chap wanted to fire super charges. Extra large amounts of propellant....

    That's exactly what I mean. Instead of admitting all the failures that aligned in the swiss cheese to allow the explosion to occur, it was easier to blame a person who died in the blast. Then they address some of the failures behind the scenes.

    It was hideous. The Bonhomme Richard was under heavy maintenance at the time of the fire, and it is easier to blame someone for maliciously starting the fire than it is to admit that maintenance procedures have been dangerous for years. The Iwo Jima had a fire whilst under maintenance the year before, and there were a couple more in recent years before that.

    https://news.usni.org/2020/07/13/warships-in-maintenance-always-face-increased-risk-for-fire-damage

    It doesn't mean the accused didn't start the fire; but I'd require some top-class proof.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tomorrow’s announcement today:

    A number of key destinations as well as international travel hubs will be removed from the red list – India, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE. India’s placement on the red list was the subject of substantial controversy after MPs accused Boris Johnson of delaying its inclusion in the spring as cases rapidly rose and the new Delta variant emerged.

    Mexico, Georgia, Réunion and Mayotte are to be added to the red list. More countries will also be added to the green list where travellers can go regardless of vaccine status. New green list countries are Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, Romania and Norway. All changes come into effect at 4am on Sunday 8 August in England.

    That statement is inaccurate. The green list is a list of countries where travellers can return from without quarantine. New Zealand is on the green list, good luck going there.
    It’s also very asymmetric. People travelling from the Middle East countries back to the UK are only exempt from quarantine if they were vaccinated in the UK. Not if they were vaccinated abroad.

    It’s still a minimum of five days’ quarantine (with the expensive test-to-release scheme) if I travel from UAE to UK, even though I had two UK-approved Pfizer vaccines.
    Son-in-Thailand has had two vaccine shots, but with Sinovac. Doesn't think he'll be allowed into the UK without quarantine plus the scheme to which Mr S refers, if at all.
    Eventually he will, unless the UK doesn’t want any tourists from China anymore.
    It’s getting there slowly, but international agreements are stilll taking time.

    If everyone trusted the WHO-approved vaccines, life would be easier, but Western governments don’t trust them with respect to the Chinese vaccines.

    At least my parents can now visit me in November, with no quarantine in either direction. Will be nearly three years since I last saw them.
    July 2019 when we last saw Son-in-Thailand and his family. Youngest Granddaughter (age 7) assured us the other day that they're coming for Christmas but I'm by no means convinced.
    Would be good if they could. Or we could go there, but the idea of an 11 hour flight, possibly masked isn't at all attractive.
    Good luck!

    I think I’ve said it before on here, but the attitude of the media that travel restrictions are all about getting a week on the beach, is really annoying to those who haven’t seen family for years, or who have business that needs to be done in other countries.
    Thanks. Agree.

    Son-in-Thailand earns his living in the electronics and communications industry, selling high-grade tech kit to firms/organisations anywhere between Lahore and Wellington.
    He can do a lot on Zoom etc but there are times when there's no alternative to face-to-face.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Billion dollar arsonist in the US navy…

    USS Bonhomme Richard fire: Suspect identified as 20-year-old Navy sailor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58091854

    Given the US Navy's long and far from illustrious history of getting to the bottom of incidents, I'm going to treat such claims with caution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    The stellar competence of TV's NCIS is very much a work of fiction.
    They run an absolutely ruthless blame culture in my experience and aren't shy about binning flag ranks.

    The RN are a lot more... erm... nuanced when it comes to disciplinary matters.
    I've read the book and report by the outside investigators on the Iowa B turret explosion. It certainly gives a different picture from the original USN explanations of suicide by 16" rifle, perhaps arising from a spurned love affair between two matelots (IIRC).

    I see the BHR matelot is being accused in part that he "showed disdain towards authority and the US Navy". I don't know what the USN is like these days, but at least in my dad's time, if abunch of RN sailor WEREN'T vocally expressing suchb opinions about the RN (and the USN too of course), that was the time for their officers to worry.
    5 minutes reading on what happened on the Iowa, makes me wonder why every single reactivated battleship didn't explode.

    - 40+ year old propellant charges
    - propellant charges known to have been stored in inappropriate, varying conditions
    - propellant charges that had an original life of a year or 2
    - So, the untrained, hobbyist in charge of gunnery starts mixing propellant between bags. At this point Gunner Grant is turning in his grave at 12,000 rpm
    - The turret ramming system was known to over ram - crushing the propellant.....
    - Maintenance was all over the place.
    - Few people knew how this ancient stuff worked. Alot of it had undocumented quirks...
    - Then the hobbyist chap wanted to fire super charges. Extra large amounts of propellant....

    PLus two known explosions albeit before WW2.

    Oh yes, and THEN there was the investigation ... just a little bit of the Wikipedia entry on the sabotage-suicide theory:

    "Sandia's chemical and materials analysis group, headed by James Borders, investigated further the theory about a chemical igniter. Navy technicians stated that the discovery under the center gun's projectile's rotating band of minute steel-wool fibers that were encrusted with calcium and chlorine, a fragment of polyethylene terephthalate (commonly used in plastic bags), and different glycols, including brake fluid, hypochlorite, antifreeze, and Brylcreem together indicated the use of a chemical igniter. The Navy was unable to locate the steel-wool fiber evidence for Borders to examine. No untouched portions of the rotating band remained and Sandia was provided with a section to examine that had already been examined by the FBI. Borders' team examined the rotating band and did not find any traces of polyethylene terephthalate. The team found that the glycols present actually came from the Break-Free cleaning solution which had been dumped into the center gun's barrel to help free the projectile after the explosion. The team also found that calcium and chlorine were present in Iowa's other gun turrets and in the gun turrets of the other Iowa-class battleships, and that this was indicative of routine exposure to a maritime environment. Borders concluded that ordinary sources accounted for all of the "foreign materials" found by the Navy on the center gun projectile, and that the theory that a chemical igniter had been used to cause the explosion was extremely doubtful."

    I like the deadpan comment that one might find sea salt in a battleship gun turret at sea ...

    As for the BHR, it woiuldn't be the first time some ****wit sailor (whoever that might be, and I'm not suggesting the USN have the right person) had left bottles of turps open when heading off to the canteen ...

    Not to mention the shells were historic artefacts as well, and would have been subject to all kinds of things over the decades...

    Brylcreem......
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Can anyone explain how the world record for the women's 4x100 metres relay can be 40.82 secs when the world record for the women's 100 metres is 10.49 secs?

    The quickest first 10 metres of MEN's sprinting ever recorded is 1.67 seconds. The women's 60 metre WR is 6.92. Accelerating to ~ 23 mph isn't instantaneous.
    If you divide a 400 metre sprint into 4 x 100 blocs the fastest 100 metres a 400 metre sprinter runs is the second of the 4, or metres 101-200, because he has a running start but hasn't started to tire yet.
    The average athlete’s peak running speed occurs at close to 100m. For years Johnson’s 200m record was faster than double to 100m record, and with both now held by Bolt, they’re back to being almost identical again, with the 100m being slightly faster (9.58 and 19.19).

    There have been 150m races run, but not at major championships, which are the fastest for any given athlete.

    The 4x100m race, is of course the fastest event of them all, with three of the athletes getting a flying start. The Jamaican team in London 11 years ago, will likely hold the WR for a while to come.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=uwLDpcye-VM
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    I seem to remember that Jamaica has/had a bob-sleigh team.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    It would be great if Sunil or someone could calculate Team ERII or Team Commonwealth’s medal haul just so Stuart Dickson would fuck off.
    This is mean to Stuart Dickson, and I repent.
    But I found his seemingly drunken comments last night very irksome.

    Sorry Stuart. But you are a bit irksome.
    I’m going to use that word more myself.“Irksome”. Like it.
    vexatious is good.
    pestiferous is splendid
    I overuse vexatious in a legal context. Conducting Employment Tribunal proceedings vexatiously is one of the reasons why you can get hit by a costs award in a forum where normally each party bears their own so it routinely goes in letters to worry the oppo a bit.

    I'm going to have to look up pestiferous.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    Speaking of anti-vaxxers, my friend - currently in hospital with a kidney failure - has caught covid.

    Half the ward has it, and the theory is that it was brought in by an anti-vax nurse.

    Hopefully my friend - young, double vaxxed and already a covid veteran - will be fine.

    Fingers crossed for your friend. Not at all nice.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938

    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.

    She and BoZo are made for each other
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?

    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    Thanks for that Scott. Hopefully it will be included as an extra in your Heroes of Comedy Netflix special.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Scott_xP said:

    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.

    She and BoZo are made for each other
    Don't tell Carrie!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Walker, hope your friend is ok.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    There's a real sense amongst that lot that the mere act of vaccination is inherently both wicked and dangerous. And because children aren't at risk from Covid the all powerful NAZI NUREMBERG CODE BREAKING STATE WILL KILL THEIR KIDS.
    AND THEY SHOUT AND WAIL AND SCREAM
    The Gloop crowd are especially... special on this one. I will have to find you the message from the one who discovered that her 18 year old had got the vaccination. So she held half a lemon to the vaccination injection site, to suck out the Bad Stuff.

    I am trying to imagine the thought process in the 18 years head, while he submitted to this.
    "The Goop crowd are especially... special" was probably enough, I think :wink:

    (Given the track record, the 18 year old was lucky that it was only a lemon, not a swarm of bees or something shoved up an available orifice)
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited August 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
    Well we probably agree that Whitehall’s approach to Scotland has been disastrous.

    But I’m fed up with Nicola.
    She is largely given a free ride by the media, too, even though she wants to BREAK UP MY COUNTRY.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    There's a real sense amongst that lot that the mere act of vaccination is inherently both wicked and dangerous. And because children aren't at risk from Covid the all powerful NAZI NUREMBERG CODE BREAKING STATE WILL KILL THEIR KIDS.
    AND THEY SHOUT AND WAIL AND SCREAM
    The Gloop crowd are especially... special on this one. I will have to find you the message from the one who discovered that her 18 year old had got the vaccination. So she held half a lemon to the vaccination injection site, to suck out the Bad Stuff.

    I am trying to imagine the thought process in the 18 years head, while he submitted to this.
    "The Goop crowd are especially... special" was probably enough, I think :wink:

    (Given the track record, the 18 year old was lucky that it was only a lemon, not a swarm of bees or something shoved up an available orifice)
    {1950's voice over voice}

    There Are Some Things Man Was Not Meant To Know
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
    Well we probably agree that Whitehall’s approach to Scotland has been disastrous.

    But I’m fed up with Nicola.
    She is largely given a free ride by the media, too, even though she wants to BREAK UP MY COUNTRY.
    Please be precise: your state. Noit your country.

    And, for the nth time, the media in Scotland are overwhelmingly Unionist. Even the National is only there because the Herald lost so many readers by going full Britnat and needed to do something to regain the lost profits. It has often beem much more Green/Trots than SNP in content.

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525
    edited August 2021

    MattW said:

    Pret, McColls and Welcome Break in minimum wage fail

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58083889

    Some of the example companies "named and shamed" are on the face of it extremely unfair. John Lewis, one case, 4 years ago. That is clearly a mistake, and probably some weird edge case, where their accounting software bugged out. A huge organisation making a single balls up 4 years ago isn't exactly trying to pull a fast one on workers.

    The report covers 2011 to 2018 which makes it hardly timely but cock-ups don't help when you are at the supermarket till and it is employers' responsibility to get it right. From your link:-

    The government acknowledged that many of the breaches were not intentional, but said the minimum wage laws were meant to ensure that a fair day's work received a fair day's pay.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58083889
    Nitpicking and a megaphone have been the technique since they started.

    No idea why.
    Since who started? It's the government.
    Since the performative enforcement farrago started around 2014. Overwhelmingly marginal offences followed by ludicrous high-profile name and shame, followed by the Guardian wetting its pants, and TU leaders launching another broadside smearing today's convenient target. Various think tanks and commissions get to try and justify their own existence by sanctimonious press statements.

    Much of it has been to do with weirdly complex regulations, and it is nearly always marginal or technical breaches. And sometimes because what employees and employers do by agreement does not match the dot and tittle.

    This time the sh*t has hit John Lewis John Lewis when they actually pay way over minimum wage. Here's the explanation:

    John Lewis Partnership spokesman said: “This was a technical breach that happened four years ago, has been fixed and which we ourselves made public at the time.

    “The issue arose because the Partnership smooths pay so that Partners with variable pay get the same amount each month, helping them to budget."


    The name and shame as implemented is ill-considered, disproportionate, and entirely pathetic.

    One for Great Jumping Jolyon, but he won't because he normally does political campaigns whilst hiding under a wig.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    edited August 2021

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small possibility of a benefit to the children themselves may not outweigh the low but statistically significant risks.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    Yes, I think I have got the drift. They like to loudly complain and about anything and everything, and get disproportionately angry? Was that the drift?
  • Options

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    Surely the whole point of being a libertarian is that you have no faith in government or institutions: how has the current situation changed it?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Which OTHER party could current Labour voters see themselves voting for?

    None: 39%
    Liberal Democrats: 21%
    Greens: 20%
    Conservatives: 7%


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1423207307559718915?s=20
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    edited August 2021
    FF43 said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small benefits to the children themselves may not outweigh the slight risks.
    The medical establishment seem scared to make the case about greater herd immunity, especially in the UK. Probably down to distrust of Cummings and Johnson, and the March 2020 UK plan for herd immunity. It is nothing new, there are other illnesses where we have accepted treatment to protect the wider community.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
    Well we probably agree that Whitehall’s approach to Scotland has been disastrous.

    But I’m fed up with Nicola.
    She is largely given a free ride by the media, too, even though she wants to BREAK UP MY COUNTRY.
    Please be precise: your state. Noit your country.

    And, for the nth time, the media in Scotland are overwhelmingly Unionist. Even the National is only there because the Herald lost so many readers by going full Britnat and needed to do something to regain the lost profits. It has often beem much more Green/Trots than SNP in content.

    No, my country.

    I have two - Britain & NZ.

    I am not English, never will be. I am British. Britain is my country, including (and perhaps especially given the NZ-Scottish connection) the northern reaches.

    I don’t consume the Scottish media, I’m really talking about mainstream British media (BBC, Sky, Guardian etc).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    Which OTHER party could current Labour voters see themselves voting for?

    None: 39%
    Liberal Democrats: 21%
    Greens: 20%
    Conservatives: 7%


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1423207307559718915?s=20

    You left out SNP 5% and PC 3% - a hell of a lot considering the relative populations of the nations. 50% split to SNP sounds about right - actually a little higher than I had expected given some of the shift has happened.
  • Options
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Poker?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525
    edited August 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Can anyone explain how the world record for the women's 4x100 metres relay can be 40.82 secs when the world record for the women's 100 metres is 10.49 secs?

    The quickest first 10 metres of MEN's sprinting ever recorded is 1.67 seconds. The women's 60 metre WR is 6.92. Accelerating to ~ 23 mph isn't instantaneous.
    It is worth about 4-5 %.

    Back when 10s was the barrier for 100m the male 4x100m times were around 38s at best.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.

    That some of your colleagues are not very bright?
  • Options

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Poker?
    Indeed, but that's pushing the limits of 'sport' more than snooker and darts, I think. Those two do at least involve moving a physical object with some skill. The skill in poker is choosing which physical objects to move and when.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    Surely the whole point of being a libertarian is that you have no faith in government or institutions: how has the current situation changed it?
    You are confusing libertarians with anarchists mate.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    I seem to remember that Jamaica has/had a bob-sleigh team.
    I think that is an excellent example to look at, although they weren't any good, contrary to the excellent feel good film Cool Running. But the possibility is there under the right circumstances even with the lack of an obvious key ingredient in Jamaica. The teams tend to be made up of sprinters, no shortage there. There are very few participants and runs to practice on so if you have the equipment and skills you stand a good chance of getting to the top. Having mountains covered in snow also tends to be a big help unfortunately.

    Much tougher to be a top swimmer.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    This is meant as a fishing expedition, right?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
    Well we probably agree that Whitehall’s approach to Scotland has been disastrous.

    But I’m fed up with Nicola.
    She is largely given a free ride by the media, too, even though she wants to BREAK UP MY COUNTRY.
    Please be precise: your state. Noit your country.

    And, for the nth time, the media in Scotland are overwhelmingly Unionist. Even the National is only there because the Herald lost so many readers by going full Britnat and needed to do something to regain the lost profits. It has often beem much more Green/Trots than SNP in content.

    No, my country.

    I have two - Britain & NZ.

    I am not English, never will be. I am British. Britain is my country, including (and perhaps especially given the NZ-Scottish connection) the northern reaches.

    I don’t consume the Scottish media, I’m really talking about mainstream British media (BBC, Sky, Guardian etc).
    That's a fair enough perspective on the first, even if the Britain from which the colonists and emigrants left is no longer the same country (I have family in NZ).

    On the second point, I'm slightly surprised at your view of the London media - the London newspapers and mags tend to depend too much on individual 'Scottish correspondents' with often set views. Evenm the Guardian in particular is notable for its frequent hostility to the SNP to the extent that I can always tell who is writing a certain piece even if I begin in the middle. But there is not that much coverage anyway.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pret, McColls and Welcome Break in minimum wage fail

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58083889

    Some of the example companies "named and shamed" are on the face of it extremely unfair. John Lewis, one case, 4 years ago. That is clearly a mistake, and probably some weird edge case, where their accounting software bugged out. A huge organisation making a single balls up 4 years ago isn't exactly trying to pull a fast one on workers.

    The report covers 2011 to 2018 which makes it hardly timely but cock-ups don't help when you are at the supermarket till and it is employers' responsibility to get it right. From your link:-

    The government acknowledged that many of the breaches were not intentional, but said the minimum wage laws were meant to ensure that a fair day's work received a fair day's pay.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58083889
    Nitpicking and a megaphone have been the technique since they started.

    No idea why.
    Since who started? It's the government.
    Since the performative enforcement farrago started around 2014. Overwhelmingly marginal offences followed by ludicrous high-profile name and shame, followed by the Guardian wetting its pants, and TU leaders launching another broadside smearing today's convenient target. Various think tanks and commissions get to try and justify their own existence by sanctimonious press statements.

    Much of it has been to do with weirdly complex regulations, and it is nearly always marginal or technical breaches. And sometimes because what employees and employers do by agreement does not match the dot and tittle.

    This time the sh*t has hit John Lewis John Lewis when they actually pay way over minimum wage. Here's the explanation:

    John Lewis Partnership spokesman said: “This was a technical breach that happened four years ago, has been fixed and which we ourselves made public at the time.

    “The issue arose because the Partnership smooths pay so that Partners with variable pay get the same amount each month, helping them to budget."


    The name and shame as implemented is ill-considered, disproportionate, and entirely pathetic.

    One for Great Jumping Jolyon, but he won't because he normally does political campaigns whilst hiding under a wig.
    Aiui the name-and-shame is by the government, not by any news organisations or campaigning groups.

    As for any particular instance, I've already said it is old news because the report covers pre-2018 cases. However, it is surely any large employer's responsibility to get the details right and not hide behind misunderstood technicalities – it is their job to get the details, the technicalities, right. The victims are the minimum wage employees who were short-changed, and not the firms who underpaid them.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    The PM & the Chancellor have put out a hugely important statement on the future of investment in the UK.

    They've put down the challenge to UK investment funds to invest in the UK & committed to long-awaited policy reforms... a Thread on why this matters.


    https://twitter.com/jpwiseuk/status/1423044683366866946?s=20

    Cynically, I think the real reason for the initiative is so that the government can get the "Investment big bang" slogan out there to cover up the fall in investment due to Covid and mainly Brexit. There are some edge adjustments you can make to regulation that matter to practitioners, which will have negative effects to go alongside the positive ones, so you end up essentially with a wash.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,232
    FF43 said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small possibility of a benefit to the children themselves may not outweigh the low but statistically significant risks.
    I think there's an issue here in the time horizon they're using for their calculations, which means they assign a significantly larger than zero probability that children won't catch Covid, downweighting the risk side of the calculation.

    But mostly scientists are saying that we will all eventually get it.

    I guess it depends on how long you think the vaccine will be effective for, and we don't know that.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995
    edited August 2021
    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    is this the same people who confidently predicted there would be 100,000 cases by now?

    Yep.

    "Lead author and Independent SAGE member Professor Christina Pagel"

    iSAGE can sure move quickly on to new terrain when one of their predictions or prescriptions implodes without pausing for breath.
    They have been an absolute disgrace throughout. Alarmist, misleading, useless. I would very much hope that their professional bodies, where they have them, have taken note and are considering charges of bringing the profession into disrepute.
    One thing I am curious about is whether all their respective universities have agreed to the secondment to iSAGE? For some of them at least this has got to be a full time job. I mean they are never off 24 hour news. So they have presumably sought and recvd permission to put down their day jobs doing research with measured outputs?
    Most universities will just love having their ‘stars’ in the media, and not worry too much what they say. And dont forget, pb is not representative of the nation. Remember 17% want a lockdown right now. For all that many of us on here think they are at best misguided, that is probably not the majority view amongst many of the still very scared.
    Indeed. Most unis would be v happy as their name always appears in the title of the person on TV. Those lumps of £9K don't just walk through the door. But when I worked in unis you would still need permission to be away from the day job like this.
    Generally academics don't need permission to do outside activities unless paid (surely not the case here, and in fact some academic contracts do permit up to x days paid outside work) or there is a conflict of interest with University business.

    I have little respect for the way certain academics have conducted themselves in this pandemic, and even less for the media who promote extreme views with no balance or challenge, but I believe the solution to academics talking nonsense is to ignore them, not to silence them.

    --AS
    Isn't there a positive requirement to do public understanding and interpretation anyway? Such that media contacts are seen as a positive credit for the person and the uni.
  • Options
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Poker?
    Indeed, but that's pushing the limits of 'sport' more than snooker and darts, I think. Those two do at least involve moving a physical object with some skill. The skill in poker is choosing which physical objects to move and when.
    If you are doing something to keep fit then poker is probably not the best choice, but you did ask for something where “with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor”. If you also want to be able to make lots of money then poker might be your best bet. Obviously, most players lose money otherwise the top ones wouldn’t have any to make, but the same is true of most hobbies.

    I’m not talking here from my own experience as I have never played poker for significant sums, but I did know a former Rugby League pro who claimed he made more money from playing poker with the rest of the team on the coach to and from the games than he did from his actual pay...
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628
    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    But the whole point was to make @Selebian rich, not to empty his pockets.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    Surely the best way for parents to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large fortune?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992

    Harry and Meghan considered moving to NZ.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/05/meghan-and-prince-harry-discussed-moving-to-new-zealand-in-2018-governor-general-says

    What a missed opportunity.
    Meghan could have been such a great addition to the Royals, instead she has become a third rate Gwyneth Paltrow with a grudge.

    Harry looks great in a korowai (traditional Maori feathered cloak)

    Nobody seriously thinks Meghan was going to move to New Zealand, even London wasn't enough for her, it was always going to be California or NYC in her quest for A list status
  • Options

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    edited August 2021

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    is this the same people who confidently predicted there would be 100,000 cases by now?

    Yep.

    "Lead author and Independent SAGE member Professor Christina Pagel"

    iSAGE can sure move quickly on to new terrain when one of their predictions or prescriptions implodes without pausing for breath.
    They have been an absolute disgrace throughout. Alarmist, misleading, useless. I would very much hope that their professional bodies, where they have them, have taken note and are considering charges of bringing the profession into disrepute.
    One thing I am curious about is whether all their respective universities have agreed to the secondment to iSAGE? For some of them at least this has got to be a full time job. I mean they are never off 24 hour news. So they have presumably sought and recvd permission to put down their day jobs doing research with measured outputs?
    Most universities will just love having their ‘stars’ in the media, and not worry too much what they say. And dont forget, pb is not representative of the nation. Remember 17% want a lockdown right now. For all that many of us on here think they are at best misguided, that is probably not the majority view amongst many of the still very scared.
    Indeed. Most unis would be v happy as their name always appears in the title of the person on TV. Those lumps of £9K don't just walk through the door. But when I worked in unis you would still need permission to be away from the day job like this.
    Generally academics don't need permission to do outside activities unless paid (surely not the case here, and in fact some academic contracts do permit up to x days paid outside work) or there is a conflict of interest with University business.

    I have little respect for the way certain academics have conducted themselves in this pandemic, and even less for the media who promote extreme views with no balance or challenge, but I believe the solution to academics talking nonsense is to ignore them, not to silence them.

    --AS
    I've been on radio a few times to give my ha'penny's worth about employment law topics, and indeed once on Sky News (funnily enough was never asked back - my face works best on radio) and every time I think they were disappointed I was not more strident. That was particularly true when I was inverviewed by Julia Hartely-Brewer on LBC 7 years ago about a topic I can't remember. But as an ambassador for my firm I didn't really want to put off potential clients who may not have shared my political view on whatever judgment or legislation was being discussed so tried to be as balanced and accurate as I could. Academics, on the other hand, only face criticism from other academics.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    FF43 said:

    The PM & the Chancellor have put out a hugely important statement on the future of investment in the UK.

    They've put down the challenge to UK investment funds to invest in the UK & committed to long-awaited policy reforms... a Thread on why this matters.


    https://twitter.com/jpwiseuk/status/1423044683366866946?s=20

    Cynically, I think the real reason for the initiative is so that the government can get the "Investment big bang" slogan out there to cover up the fall in investment due to Covid and mainly Brexit. There are some edge adjustments you can make to regulation that matter to practitioners, which will have negative effects to go alongside the positive ones, so you end up essentially with a wash.
    No, the government is wondering why there isn't much faith in their bullsh8t green agenda and why nobody with any sense wants to invest in it.

    COP26 will show us why graphically. The countries that matter are not on board and will never be on board and so everything that Johnson and co are doing is a giant, vastly expensive and standard of living destroying virtue signalling exercise.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432
    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    "If you had the money"

    Not that kind of money, unfortunately. Anyway, the idea is to freeload off the offspring, not to invest in them. I'll run to a football if that's the best way. Set of darts and board. Even a snooker table, possibly... Not much more :wink:
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    There’s a couple of hundred people making serious money from motorsport, and it’s cost most of them millions to get where they are…
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Poker?
    Indeed, but that's pushing the limits of 'sport' more than snooker and darts, I think. Those two do at least involve moving a physical object with some skill. The skill in poker is choosing which physical objects to move and when.
    If you are doing something to keep fit then poker is probably not the best choice, but you did ask for something where “with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor”. If you also want to be able to make lots of money then poker might be your best bet. Obviously, most players lose money otherwise the top ones wouldn’t have any to make, but the same is true of most hobbies.

    I’m not talking here from my own experience as I have never played poker for significant sums, but I did know a former Rugby League pro who claimed he made more money from playing poker with the rest of the team on the coach to and from the games than he did from his actual pay...
    The critical issue with poker is finding a sufficient number of relatively (to yourself) indifferent payers who have money and are happy to lose it.
  • Options

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Football in the UK by a distance. There will be dozens more millionaires from UK football than all our other sports combined. Of the sports you mention darts has the best prize money. Other lottery funded minor sports might be easier to make a normal living from than football but not to get filthy rich.
    If Mr S is being serious, and I rather hope he isn't, it rather depends on the school the little chap goes to/is sent to. Football, or darts, are unlikely to be an option for an alumnus of Eton, Harrow or Winchester. The days of Old Carthusians or Wanderers winning the FA Cup are long gone.
    On the other hand, while getting to the top in cricket doesn't quite bring in the same money, it's much easier from the likes of, to take a local example, Bedford.
    Eton is a soccer school: they do now play Rugby, but it is very much a second choice.

    Back when I used to take a rugby team at my (state) school, we had a few years were we played Eton: when we went there the boys couldn’t use the main changing rooms because they were reserved for the football teams.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Speaking of anti-vaxxers, my friend - currently in hospital with a kidney failure - has caught covid.

    Half the ward has it, and the theory is that it was brought in by an anti-vax nurse.

    Hopefully my friend - young, double vaxxed and already a covid veteran - will be fine.

    Should not be a choice for those who work in healthcare, and want to stay working in healthcare.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    FF43 said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small benefits to the children themselves may not outweigh the slight risks.
    The medical establishment seem scared to make the case about greater herd immunity, especially in the UK. Probably down to distrust of Cummings and Johnson, and the March 2020 UK plan for herd immunity. It is nothing new, there are other illnesses where we have accepted treatment to protect the wider community.
    I don't think that take is quite fair to the regulators that have to address this issue. Let's try a thought experiment. I go to you and ask if I can vaccinate your child. I tell you it will help protect you, your partner and grown up children. It helps reduce the epidemic in the population at large It probably won't do anything for your child, who has a very low risk of getting Covid. There are very low risks, but they exist, of your child suffering side effects that may be fatal, [and let's say because there is doubt about this] those risks are slightly higher than your child avoiding serious Covid through vaccination. Would you say, Yes?

    You might say, Yes, because you see the wider benefits. But as a regulator I am asking you to make that risk assessment. It isn't the place of the regulator to require consumers to make risk assessments on something as routine as vaccination. It is my responsibility to affirm to you that the vaccine is effective and safe.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    Should get gold from here in the omnium.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    is this the same people who confidently predicted there would be 100,000 cases by now?

    Yep.

    "Lead author and Independent SAGE member Professor Christina Pagel"

    iSAGE can sure move quickly on to new terrain when one of their predictions or prescriptions implodes without pausing for breath.
    They have been an absolute disgrace throughout. Alarmist, misleading, useless. I would very much hope that their professional bodies, where they have them, have taken note and are considering charges of bringing the profession into disrepute.
    One thing I am curious about is whether all their respective universities have agreed to the secondment to iSAGE? For some of them at least this has got to be a full time job. I mean they are never off 24 hour news. So they have presumably sought and recvd permission to put down their day jobs doing research with measured outputs?
    Most universities will just love having their ‘stars’ in the media, and not worry too much what they say. And dont forget, pb is not representative of the nation. Remember 17% want a lockdown right now. For all that many of us on here think they are at best misguided, that is probably not the majority view amongst many of the still very scared.
    Indeed. Most unis would be v happy as their name always appears in the title of the person on TV. Those lumps of £9K don't just walk through the door. But when I worked in unis you would still need permission to be away from the day job like this.
    Generally academics don't need permission to do outside activities unless paid (surely not the case here, and in fact some academic contracts do permit up to x days paid outside work) or there is a conflict of interest with University business.

    I have little respect for the way certain academics have conducted themselves in this pandemic, and even less for the media who promote extreme views with no balance or challenge, but I believe the solution to academics talking nonsense is to ignore them, not to silence them.

    --AS
    Isn't there a positive requirement to do public understanding and interpretation anyway? Such that media contacts are seen as a positive credit for the person and the uni.
    It's a sort of encouragement rather than a requirement. One of those things where the University wants it to happen but doesn't in any way reward it or give credit for doing public engagement at the cost of something else (a few special roles excepted).

    And to be honest you'd want to keep at least half of my colleagues well away from the press at all times...

    --AS

    PS: True story. Royal Holloway was having a crisis of recruitment to its computer security group, until a certain Dan Brown wrote a novel in which a (cool and attractive) female French cryptographer had studied there. Applications to their crypto programme went through the roof. Public engagement with fictional science may be the best kind.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Poker?
    Indeed, but that's pushing the limits of 'sport' more than snooker and darts, I think. Those two do at least involve moving a physical object with some skill. The skill in poker is choosing which physical objects to move and when.
    If you are doing something to keep fit then poker is probably not the best choice, but you did ask for something where “with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor”. If you also want to be able to make lots of money then poker might be your best bet. Obviously, most players lose money otherwise the top ones wouldn’t have any to make, but the same is true of most hobbies.

    I’m not talking here from my own experience as I have never played poker for significant sums, but I did know a former Rugby League pro who claimed he made more money from playing poker with the rest of the team on the coach to and from the games than he did from his actual pay...
    Yeah, you're right - not sure why I was fixating on 'sports'... Poker looks to be the way to go. But should I just cut out the middle man and put the time in myself, instead?

    I had a housemate once who got fairly good at poker, used to consistently come out ahead in the local competitions. I played him and his friends once, didn't take me too long to work out who the mug was!
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant
    Israel is on 60% double vaccinated against UK 70%, largely because of religious refuseniks.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    HYUFD said:

    Harry and Meghan considered moving to NZ.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/05/meghan-and-prince-harry-discussed-moving-to-new-zealand-in-2018-governor-general-says

    What a missed opportunity.
    Meghan could have been such a great addition to the Royals, instead she has become a third rate Gwyneth Paltrow with a grudge.

    Harry looks great in a korowai (traditional Maori feathered cloak)

    Nobody seriously thinks Meghan was going to move to New Zealand, even London wasn't enough for her, it was always going to be California or NYC in her quest for A list status
    Probably in the context of a number of the ultra-wealthy who started "maintaining a residence" in NZ on the basis of luxury Preperism. Not actually living there, but having a house, servants and a wine cellar waiting for when the End of The World came....

    IIRC the NZ government got a bit annoyed with this.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    She is the First Minister. And this is not an isolated incident but a sustained pattern of refusal to engage. Which is not good for government at any level.
    Nicola is given an inch and takes a yard.
    She pretty much weaponises all her engagements with U.K. level people and institutions.

    Perhaps a period of isolation is indeed called for.
    "Is called for": it's been inflicted by the government in Whitehall for years now, was my point.
    Well we probably agree that Whitehall’s approach to Scotland has been disastrous.

    But I’m fed up with Nicola.
    She is largely given a free ride by the media, too, even though she wants to BREAK UP MY COUNTRY.
    Please be precise: your state. Noit your country.

    And, for the nth time, the media in Scotland are overwhelmingly Unionist. Even the National is only there because the Herald lost so many readers by going full Britnat and needed to do something to regain the lost profits. It has often beem much more Green/Trots than SNP in content.

    Yepp. There is not a single pro-SNP paper. The National has gone all Alba, Green, far-left. They have a constant stream of anti-FM and anti-SNP articles.

    Not necessarily bad in itself, as those people deserve a voice too, but in a country where the SNP is overwhelmingly the most popular, it is surreal that 99% of the media is Unionist. Where do normal Scots then look to for intelligent news and comment? They have only one choice: social media.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    There’s a couple of hundred people making serious money from motorsport, and it’s cost most of them millions to get where they are…
    Hamilton, as ever, is one of the outliers in that respect.
    (As incidentally, is the most recent GP winner, Ocon.)
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983

    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    Surely the best way for parents to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large fortune?
    Lewis Hamilton started with not a lot and has got a long way. Jenson Button, on the other hand had a father who could help him get on and didn't get as far.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Which OTHER party could current Labour voters see themselves voting for?

    None: 39%
    Liberal Democrats: 21%
    Greens: 20%
    Conservatives: 7%


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1423207307559718915?s=20

    You left out SNP 5% and PC 3% - a hell of a lot considering the relative populations of the nations. 50% split to SNP sounds about right - actually a little higher than I had expected given some of the shift has happened.
    Carlottas job is to ignore the elephant in the room.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628

    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Re the first item on your list you are confusing 'might' with 'will'. This is a gambling site. Don't think anyone actually thought 'will' unlike your statements.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Can someone explain to me why almost the entire Brexiteer right is anti-vac for minors aged 16+, and even more so for 12+?

    My Twitter feed is full of posts saying it's tantamount to child abuse, and saying they'll mount a resistance campaign.

    I don't get it.

    A lot of the Brexiteer Right, particularly that bit well represented on twitter, has minimised the risk from the virus as part of the argument against restrictions on liberty, and even more so minimised the risk to the young.

    Being pro a vaccine for children would mean accepting that their previous position of the virus being zero risk for children was nonsense.
    I think there is a genuine dilemma here. The motivation for vaccinating children is to get a greater herd immunity and to protect older people in their surrounds. The small benefits to the children themselves may not outweigh the slight risks.
    The medical establishment seem scared to make the case about greater herd immunity, especially in the UK. Probably down to distrust of Cummings and Johnson, and the March 2020 UK plan for herd immunity. It is nothing new, there are other illnesses where we have accepted treatment to protect the wider community.
    I don't think that take is quite fair to the regulators that have to address this issue. Let's try a thought experiment. I go to you and ask if I can vaccinate your child. I tell you it will help protect you, your partner and grown up children. It helps reduce the epidemic in the population at large It probably won't do anything for your child, who has a very low risk of getting Covid. There are very low risks, but they exist, of your child suffering side effects that may be fatal, [and let's say because there is doubt about this] those risks are slightly higher than your child avoiding serious Covid through vaccination. Would you say, Yes?

    You might say, Yes, because you see the wider benefits. But as a regulator I am asking you to make that risk assessment. It isn't the place of the regulator to require consumers to make risk assessments on something as routine as vaccination. It is my responsibility to affirm to you that the vaccine is effective and safe.
    The issue as I see it is that the establishment have not explained that case, nor reminded people that it has been common practice for people including children to accept ultra low risk treatment primarily for the benefit of the wider community.

    They have focussed instead on comparing the benefits for the individual child vs the vaccination risks. That means comparing two different ultra low risks and requires massive samples and data to get any firm conclusion - hence they end up with mixed messages and awaiting further data.

    I am not saying the regulators should mandate vaccination for children at all, I am saying they should not be so shy about saying the country as a whole would be significantly better if vaccination take up in children is high.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,184

    Scott_xP said:

    Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
    A: To avoid meeting Nicola Sturgeon...

    I approve of Boris putting Nicola in her place.
    It’s a delicate balance, and he needs to avoid insulting the Scots, but Nicola pretends to a status she simply does not have.
    That will be Prime Minister of UK Boris Johnson visiting part of the UK. She is not head of state of an independent country (yet/ever).
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995

    Dura_Ace said:

    Selebian said:



    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)

    If you had the money you could buy yourself a very long way toward the front in motorsport because so much depends on the equipment, the team and the car set up.

    It also applies to a lesser extent in motorcycle racing where the same applies but you're a lot more likely to wreck yourself if you haven't got the talent.
    Surely the best way for parents to make a small fortune in motor racing is to start with a large fortune?
    I recently won a Time Attack event. I reckon the AliExpress trophy I got cost 0.01% of the car I used so maybe you're on to something.
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    OT Britain's Matt Walls is leading the Omnium on the telly now. He carries my £5. I have no idea what is going on in this event.
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    It helps to understand that the relationship between the libertarian right and those in power has pretty much completely broken down.

    There is no longer any faith whatever in government or institutions. It follows I guess that anything those institutions say or do will be opposed

    All that goalpost moving has consequences.

    For some, nothing but a completely new relationship with state with new faces in power will do now.

    The numbers are small but every move the government makes infuriates and alienates more people.

    For example a young person I work with who had a terrible time during lockdown had booked a two-week holiday to Mexico with her mates, starting next week.

    Maybe you guys get the drift now.


    We get the drift.

    You make it up as you go along and go quiet as all the things you claimed would happen didn't.

    Perhaps you'd like to give us an update on how well Florida is doing.
    Florida is not one of the low vaccination states and De Santis is pro-vaccination.

    Florida was a no lockdown state. Are you still pro-lockdown?

    Meanwhile, perhaps you would like to give me an update on how Israel is doing?

    Poster boy for total vaccination, now mulling a fresh lockdown.
    Israel did not achieve total vaccination and I'm not pro lockdown.

    Now lets remember your predictions:

    1) The pubs would not be opened
    2) The government would not lift restrictions
    3) The mask mandate would not end
    4) The government would discover a new variant

    So? Most people on here thought

    Texas, Ohio, Iowa and Florida would go blue
    Lockdowns were vital and anybody opposing them insane.
    Infections after July 19 would rocket to 100,000 plus.


    Texas probably would have gone blue absent the heroic voter suppression efforts.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    Poker?
    Indeed, but that's pushing the limits of 'sport' more than snooker and darts, I think. Those two do at least involve moving a physical object with some skill. The skill in poker is choosing which physical objects to move and when.
    If you are doing something to keep fit then poker is probably not the best choice, but you did ask for something where “with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor”. If you also want to be able to make lots of money then poker might be your best bet. Obviously, most players lose money otherwise the top ones wouldn’t have any to make, but the same is true of most hobbies.

    I’m not talking here from my own experience as I have never played poker for significant sums, but I did know a former Rugby League pro who claimed he made more money from playing poker with the rest of the team on the coach to and from the games than he did from his actual pay...
    The critical issue with poker is finding a sufficient number of relatively (to yourself) indifferent payers who have money and are happy to lose it.
    Starting at Eton probably ideal to build such connections!
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    felix said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UK recorded 29,312 coronavirus cases in last 24 hours.
    Here’s how we compare to other countries:

    🇬🇧 UK - 29,312

    🇫🇷 FRANCE - 1,996
    🇩🇪 GERMANY - 1,776
    🇪🇸 SPAIN - 4,954
    🇮🇹 ITALY - 3,185

    🇺🇸 USA - 15,081
    🇧🇷 BRAZIL - 20,503
    🇮🇳 INDIA - 30,549
    🇮🇩 INDONESIA - 33,900
    (Data: @who)
    https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1422939172902514688

    Leaving aside different points in cycle etc, on a 7 day basis, Spain and France are very comparable to UK according to OWID. OWID also suggests Spain and France reporting is massively variable on a single day basis.

    It's a nonsense stat anyway, to make any kind of point about how well countries are doing. But taking a single day (with likely different reporting lags between countries) speaks of dubious motivation.
    Scott'n paste orgasms whenever he senses gloom and doom for the UK v EU. Notice how he's avoiding the Olympic Medal table.
    Didn't someone post on this before and note that the EU are way ahead of us on medals? :wink:
    It was the idiot Dickson who pretended it was one country with no limits on the number of competitor entries. BDS is a serious illness and apparently there is no vaccine or cure.
    Swings and roundabouts. Yes, the EU gets more competitors per event (which in most cases makes zero difference to podium places), but on the other hand the EU misses out on loads of relay and team podium placing.

    It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the English are getting utterly thrashed by the EU at this Olympics.
    It is Team GB competing not England.

    The Commonwealth has also won more golds than the EU
    Let's be done with all the jingoistic petty nationalism and just call it TeamBoris.
    I think we are getting a bit carried away with this population nonsense re Olympic medals. Obviously it is important, but once you are over a certain critical mass other factors kick in.

    Based on population NZ should be rubbish at rugby, W Indies rubbish at cricket and so on and an obvious one is skiing. I don't think it surprising to anyone that Austria and Switzerland are pretty handy at it. I wonder why?!

    A critical mass in a less popular sport can work wonders. From personal experience of my 2 children getting to the top of judo is much easier than swimming and requires a lot less effort as it is a lot less competitive. If you want to get to the top of a sport and you are physically and spatially suited, obviously you should pick the ones that fits your natural traits, but more importantly pick one that is less popular.

    Or of course (as is and should be the case) pick ones you enjoy.
    Enjoyment is one thing, of course...

    The other question, pressing for my wife and I as our eldest is now three and needs to start the journey to elite sport if he's going to make it, is which sport offers the best financial return for parents, on average? Obviously football is big bucks, but lots and lots of competitors. What's the sport that gives us the greatest chance of retiring to our own tropical island when he's in his early 20s, say?

    (Obviously - I hope! - I'm not serious about this, but the question is kind of interesting - many sports require innate talent/physical prowess - but there are probably others - snooker? darts? curling? where with sufficient application perhaps almost anyone could become an elite competitor? Snooker, of those, has the highest earnings, I guess?)
    If I were to talk to my son about making money in sport, I'd suggest doing something in a sport he enjoys to a moderate level. But whilst he was doing it, cultivate contacts. Then go into the business / management / agent side, which is where the money really swishes about in sport. If you manage a player, you take a percentage of the star's salary, but you can manage several at the same time. And whilst a player of any sport might have a few years at the top in most sports (things like golf excepted), you can be a manager or agent for all of yours.

    Most of all, even if his sports career looks promising at an early age I'd implore him not to drop his studies.
This discussion has been closed.