An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid.
Did you see Boris in today's PMQs? Compare him today to him back in 2019 and tell me that Covid doesn't have long term side effects.
Boris has always been a bit goofy.
But he was on a sticky wicket in today's PMQ's as so many of his MPs have taken the wrong side in a culture war and he knows it. Dickheads like HYUFD's MP counterpart Elphicke and others really gave Starmer an open goal today and Boris knew it.
It is more than that, surely. Boris at PMQs delivered his last question rant to SKS a question early, and appeared to completely misunderstand a later question on vaccinating schoolchildren. And these things happen regularly at PMQs and when answering questions at Covid pressers.
Where I differ from other Boris-sceptic PBers is I do not think he will be ousted but rather will step down before the next general election, Harold Wilson-like.
I expect Boris to go by December 2022 but don't know exactly when. He needs to earn the serious money a former PM can make on the American circuit.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Simply, I wouldn't want a racist working for me. He outed himself as a racist. I don't know what he'd need to do to rehabilitate himself and I'm a firm believer in second chances.
Yes, but people can learn and change can they not?
I don't think we should shun and push such people into the fringes of society; we should give them a way out and help convert them.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Carry out several acts of penance.
Perhaps working on the Marcus Rashford project to feed poor children would be a good starting point.
Yes, that could help.
If he can teach Rashford how to take a penalty in time for Qatar the public might forgive him
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Don't need it for every role tbf, anyone who doesn't have access to client money or data for example. Even so, that's not the issue. Firstly, I'm not white so why would I hire someone who thinks black people are scum? Secondly the team and wider company has got black, Asian, Jewish and many other non-WASP people working here, hiring him would cause a lot of unnecessary hassle for any hiring manager trying to justify hiring a known racist.
That kind of discussion is going to be replicated across workplaces in the country. The risk/reward ratio for hiring him is extremely poor.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Having thought about it, I would put Blair at #1. He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Don't need it for every role tbf, anyone who doesn't have access to client money or data for example. Even so, that's not the issue. Firstly, I'm not white so why would I hire someone who thinks black people are scum? Secondly the team and wider company has got black, Asian, Jewish and many other non-WASP people working here, hiring him would cause a lot of unnecessary hassle for any hiring manager trying to justify hiring a known racist.
That kind of discussion is going to be replicated across workplaces in the country. The risk/reward ratio for hiring him is extremely poor.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
But you weren't bothered when it was said Russian bots were pushing for Brexit.
Also the head of MI5 says most of the abusive social media posts came from inside the UK.
Did he actually say that? I thought he brushed aside the question and then advised we clean our own house first. But I don’t think he actually denied those reports of Russian bots.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
On enhanced DBS checks arrests will show, and he has been arrested today on on suspicion of an offence under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
Having thought about it, I would put Blair at #1. He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
John Howard should be near the top, but he's in Australia's list.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Having thought about it, I would put Blair at #1. He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
John Howard should be near the top, but he's in Australia's list.
Hard to score this, it’s from some academic survey. Howard is too low; Miliband too high!
Lol, imagine not having Mrs Thatcher in first place. Shows everything that's wrong with the lefty liberals that have infested universities.
As LotO? I have literally zero opinion on Thatcher-as-LotO, except that she ultimately “won” of course.
First female leader, working class and she won in a male dominated society specifically in a party that was living in the dark ages on both class and sex. Whatever glass ceilings existed, she shattered them. Neither Blair nor Wilson had the same barriers.
Fair point but wasn't Wilson the first state school educated PM?
Wasn't Lloyd George educated at the local Anglican school? And Ramsey Macdonald certainly wasn't educated privately?
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Did he actually say that? I thought he brushed aside the question and then advised we clean our own house first. But I don’t think he actually denied those reports of Russian bots.
That's more accurate. I've no doubt though that the flames are fanned by the Russians and others, that's how it works in the US for a whole load of issues and from all sides, there is no reason to think it doesn't happen here as well.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
But you weren't bothered when it was said Russian bots were pushing for Brexit.
Also the head of MI5 says most of the abusive social media posts came from inside the UK.
Did he actually say that? I thought he brushed aside the question and then advised we clean our own house first. But I don’t think he actually denied those reports of Russian bots.
Going by this.
The head of MI5 has dismissed claims that Russian bots are responsible for online racist abuse against England footballers and said that this country should shoulder the blame for the problem.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
Having thought about it, I would put Blair at #1. He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
I think Kinnock should be above Blair. Blair couldn't have done what he did without Kinnock's hard work.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
But you weren't bothered when it was said Russian bots were pushing for Brexit.
Also the head of MI5 says most of the abusive social media posts came from inside the UK.
Kick it out said 2/3rds were from overseas. Southgate said the analysis he'd seen said the same which he found "interesting".
Who is right?
The Head of MI5 comments were actually more nuanced too - he said it was uncommon and it had happened in the past, but he didn't currently see it as a problem with most far-right groups being domestic:
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
He probably has a point about the Guardian though. It’s gone downhill since Rusbridger left.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
On enhanced DBS checks arrests will show, and he has been arrested today on on suspicion of an offence under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I wasn't aware of the arrest but yep that would appear on an enhanced check - my next question would be under what criteria would you justify an enhanced check as that is about caring for children and vulnerable adults.
Do you mean Standard (which includes cautions, warnings, reprimands)..
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
His current status of being under arrest will show up in an enhanced DBS check. If he's released with no charge it goes away. Chances are he'll end up getting a police caution at the end of this which means he won't ever get any client facing role regulated by any financial body, probably including being a lettings agent.
Having thought about it, I would put Blair at #1. He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Having thought about it, I would put Blair at #1. He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
On enhanced DBS checks arrests will show, and he has been arrested today on on suspicion of an offence under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I wasn't aware of the arrest but yep that would appear on an enhanced check - my next question would be under what criteria would you justify an enhanced check....
Depends on the role.
I'm also guessing his credit file is about to go south, which is also another block on careers in certain sectors.
There's a general rise in hatred at the moment. The Conservatives have fanned the flames of racism and are doing the same in other areas such as trans right.
Actions have consequences. Their anti-woke agenda which is (of course) all about pandering to the kind of nasty right wing English nationalism that got them elected is a self-fulfilling spiral of hate.
I've never known my country to be so toxic, so nasty, such a thoroughly unpleasant place in which to be living. The blame lies largely at the doors of Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
If I were Boris, I'd have he head of MI5 in for chat without tea and biscuits. He should be keeping his gob shut, but now he's entered the fray, I think GCHQ should actually investigate this.
Ultimately it was the main part of PMQs today. If foreign actors are doing this, they are influencing our politics. That needs to be called out as much as Brexit or Trump.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
On enhanced DBS checks arrests will show, and he has been arrested today on on suspicion of an offence under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I wasn't aware of the arrest but yep that would appear on an enhanced check - my next question would be under what criteria would you justify an enhanced check....
Depends on the role.
I'm also guessing his credit file is about to go south, which is also another block on careers in certain sectors.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
Leon seems to obsess with race more than anyone else on this site.
Hard to score this, it’s from some academic survey. Howard is too low; Miliband too high!
Corbyn too high.
Corbyn too low, surely. He ended Theresa May's majority and gave Boris most of his platform for 2019.
Margaret Thatcher looks far too high. I do not remember her being a great LotO. She inherited the election win on the back of the Winter of Discontent and other Labour travails. The barracking which until recently was a feature of PMQs started out as a Conservative tactic to boost Thatcher because she was not very good in the Commons.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
He probably has a point about the Guardian though. It’s gone downhill since Rusbridger left.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
On enhanced DBS checks arrests will show, and he has been arrested today on on suspicion of an offence under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I wasn't aware of the arrest but yep that would appear on an enhanced check - my next question would be under what criteria would you justify an enhanced check as that is about caring for children and vulnerable adults.
Do you mean Standard (which includes cautions, warnings, reprimands)..
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
Again, he didn't choose that path of apologising. He could have and now it would probably have all gone away under the guise of "drunk idiots say idiotic stuff" taken an unpaid suspension from his job for a bit and when the heat was off come back to work and just kept quiet until the world forgot.
Instead he's said he got hacked. Which is simply ridiculous and a waste of police time.
If I were Boris, I'd have he head of MI5 in for chat without tea and biscuits. He should be keeping his gob shut, but now he's entered the fray, I think GCHQ should actually investigate this.
Ultimately it was the main part of PMQs today. If foreign actors are doing this, they are influencing our politics. That needs to be called out as much as Brexit or Trump.
Foreign actors are doing it now. Last year's Russia Report from the Intelligence and Security Committee said so. Primary responsibility for countering it lies with the DCMS, which is rather like putting countering the Luftwaffe in the hands of the Salvation Army.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yes 100% sure. No one is going to hack a random and then post stuff like that. It's completely without credibility. He's not some massive public figure, he's an internet random and hackers don't give a fuck about logging into the accounts if internet randoms. They want to hack Elon Musk and announce Tesla's next car so they can make billions in market manipulation.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
These "checks" showing stuff up if you've been arrested or whatnot. What happens if you're wrongly arrested ? Seems a bit off that a police error could put a black mark against your name - isn't that why we have courts and so forth ?
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
In our industry he's going to struggle to pass a DBS.
Why? I don't think anything he has done yet would appear on it.
On enhanced DBS checks arrests will show, and he has been arrested today on on suspicion of an offence under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I wasn't aware of the arrest but yep that would appear on an enhanced check - my next question would be under what criteria would you justify an enhanced check as that is about caring for children and vulnerable adults.
Do you mean Standard (which includes cautions, warnings, reprimands)..
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
If I were Boris, I'd have he head of MI5 in for chat without tea and biscuits. He should be keeping his gob shut, but now he's entered the fray, I think GCHQ should actually investigate this.
Ultimately it was the main part of PMQs today. If foreign actors are doing this, they are influencing our politics. That needs to be called out as much as Brexit or Trump.
That's a good point actually. It would be GCHQ who'd analyse the communications.
These "checks" showing stuff up if you've been arrested or whatnot. What happens if you're wrongly arrested ? Seems a bit off that a police error could put a black mark against your name - isn't that why we have courts and so forth ?
There's a general rise in hatred at the moment. The Conservatives have fanned the flames of racism and are doing the same in other areas such as trans right.
Actions have consequences. Their anti-woke agenda which is (of course) all about pandering to the kind of nasty right wing English nationalism that got them elected is a self-fulfilling spiral of hate.
I've never known my country to be so toxic, so nasty, such a thoroughly unpleasant place in which to be living. The blame lies largely at the doors of Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson.
I think it's more that all identity politics is stupid middle class claptrap devised to keep the classes divided against themselves. Old-school feminists will inevitably disagree with some muslims, and some trans-rights people will inevitable have disagreements with some old-school feminists, and muslims won't get on with jews, and so on and so on. Marx knew it, if only the people that pretended to read him knew it too.
These "checks" showing stuff up if you've been arrested or whatnot. What happens if you're wrongly arrested ? Seems a bit off that a police error could put a black mark against your name - isn't that why we have courts and so forth ?
Welcome to the world of education post Ian Huntley.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yes 100% sure. No one is going to hack a random and then post stuff like that. It's completely without credibility. He's not some massive public figure, he's an internet random and hackers don't give a fuck about logging into the accounts if internet randoms. They want to hack Elon Musk and announce Tesla's next car so they can make billions in market manipulation.
I've had friends say they've been hacked (Facebook) but that seemed believable because basically their account spammed all their friends with adverts and links.
They didn't simply get random racist posts over a series of months.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
I think most of it is outside football now, even if there is some crossover between racist organisations like the EDL and football fans. Very little racism happens within grounds in England, it is when some pissed up bloke is sulking in his underpants alone that these things get posted.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
If someone posts something abhorrent when drunk and emotional it's a good bet it won't have been the first time.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
He probably has a point about the Guardian though. It’s gone downhill since Rusbridger left.
Yes it's a terrible paper. All over the place.
I'm a susbcriber - I think it's fine. If you don't like it don't read it.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
These "checks" showing stuff up if you've been arrested or whatnot. What happens if you're wrongly arrested ? Seems a bit off that a police error could put a black mark against your name - isn't that why we have courts and so forth ?
If it's no further action it disappears.
Yep an arrest doesn't appear but an arrest where you accept a caution, warnings and reprimands would. It's one reason why the teen mentioned by TSE below should be very careful over accepting a caution for it will follow him round forever.
These "checks" showing stuff up if you've been arrested or whatnot. What happens if you're wrongly arrested ? Seems a bit off that a police error could put a black mark against your name - isn't that why we have courts and so forth ?
The Ian Huntley precedent.
He was arrested a few times but never charged/convicted.
Now if someone had looked to see his arrest record it would have been a great big red flag not to hire him at a school.
I think he was arrested five times for rape/sexual assault, including one on a ten year old girl, whom he threatened to kill if she told anyone.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
Spot on. Anyone posting such stuff on here is quite rightly banned by the mods, as we saw earlier in the week.
If I were Boris, I'd have he head of MI5 in for chat without tea and biscuits. He should be keeping his gob shut, but now he's entered the fray, I think GCHQ should actually investigate this.
Ultimately it was the main part of PMQs today. If foreign actors are doing this, they are influencing our politics. That needs to be called out as much as Brexit or Trump.
Foreign actors are doing it now. Last year's Russia Report from the Intelligence and Security Committee said so. Primary responsibiltiy for countering it lies with the DCMS, which is rather like putting countering the Luftwaffe in the hands of the Salvation Army.
That mad Scottish Nat - Calista Hebburn - was a fascinating example of how just one person with fake but incendiary opinions can inflame thousands.
Social media has been weaponised by the Russians and Chinese, and turned against us. And it is getting worse
I read today that the Chinese now have their own version of GPT-3- the quasi intelligent NLP robot. Except this is 10 times bigger than GPT-3, and has been fed on English AND Chinese. It is called Wu Dao.
Google and Microsoft are trying to make GPT-3 stay Woke and they are restricting access partly for that reason. The Chinese will have no such scruples. Wu Dao could invent a hundred Calista Hebburns every day, roiling our politics. Perhaps Wu Dao WAS responsible for Calista Hebburn. Her syntax had the odd, umami flavour of AI thought
"GPT-3 Scared You? Meet Wu Dao 2.0: A Monster of 1.75 Trillion Parameters"
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
Hack a famous account and it probably gets clocked as a hack early on as the famous person releases a statement to that effect. This is some random but easily identifiable guy. By the time it comes out as hack, everyone has moved a long.
But I think the most likely explanation is that it was him and he can’t bring himself to own up.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
That's easier to handle than regretting the stuff we've posted while sober! At least there's an excuse when three sheets to the wind.
Never touch the stuff myself, my body is a poorly maintained temple, so no such luck.
I see we have had the usual Wednesday spike in cases to dash hopes of them peaking. I look forward to the usual suspects claiming next Monday that cases have levelled off in the mid 40k cases...
(1) The schools break up next Friday. See Scotland case numbers for what happens when schools break up. (2) The rate of increase in new cases has absolutely collapsed already. Even without schools breaking up, we would likely see cases top out pretty soon.
I forecast a peak in infections of 50k. I don't think that looks very far from the truth.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Ah. Fair enough. If there is a history of offensive and racist tweets then that is different. That's a pattern of behaviour and clearly suggests he is a proper racist, if you are correct (and I have no reason to doubt you)
There's not been much international travel these past 18 months for a rather specific reason in case you didn't notice it. Air Force One recently just made its first international flight in order to come to Britain for the G7
The chap I feel sorry for is the one who accosted Chris Whitty, assuming it was just drunken over-familiarity. He used to be an estate agent, too. If you look at videos of happy, drunk England fans, that is what they do. And yes, it is a pita if you happen to get in the way but if there was no malice intended, then basically he's lost his job for being a tiresome drunk prat.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
I know where you are coming from, but I have already forgotten his name. He’ll be fine.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
He probably has a point about the Guardian though. It’s gone downhill since Rusbridger left.
Yes it's a terrible paper. All over the place.
I'm a susbcriber - I think it's fine. If you don't like it don't read it.
By all accounts it is not a happy office, at the moment
"Guardian Media Group chief Annette Thomas quits after clash with editor Publishing boss disagreed with Katharine Viner over direction and governance of group"
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
But none of that is racist. You don't look at a black or Asian person, see the colour of their skin and think they're scum.
Again, I'll speak from my perspective. If this had happened in my company and an employee was caught being racist in this manner I'd want them out. If the company didn't do it I'd start to consider my own options and whether it was worth staying somewhere that was okay with employing known racists.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
Hack a famous account and it probably gets clocked as a hack early on as the famous person releases a statement to that effect. This is some random but easily identifiable guy. By the time it comes out as hack, everyone has moved a long.
But I think the most likely explanation is that it was him and he can’t bring himself to own up.
Either that or he was so pissed he doesn't remember doing it. And doesn't consider himself the kind of person who would do such a thing when sober. This is quite common. And often the most dangerous type.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
It's worth noting that old holborn has something that deletes all tweets after a week. I suspect something that deleted all social media posts after a month or so would be rather popular and a sane step for a lot of people.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
Hack a famous account and it probably gets clocked as a hack early on as the famous person releases a statement to that effect. This is some random but easily identifiable guy. By the time it comes out as hack, everyone has moved a long.
But I think the most likely explanation is that it was him and he can’t bring himself to own up.
Either that or he was so pissed he doesn't remember doing it. And doesn't consider himself the kind of person who would do such a thing when sober. This is quite common. And often the most dangerous type.
If someone's racist when they're drunk, they're hiding it when they're sober.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
But none of that is racist. You don't look at a black or Asian person, see the colour of their skin and think they're scum.
Again, I'll speak from my perspective. If this had happened in my company and an employee was caught being racist in this manner I'd want them out. If the company didn't do it I'd start to consider my own options and whether it was worth staying somewhere that was okay with employing known racists.
Is racism inherently *worse* than homophobia, transphobia or Islamophobia, then?
Many would disagree with you, indeed some militant identitarians would like to see YOU cancelled for holding that same opinion. This is thin ice for us all
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
The obsession with race is a disease.
You obviously spend too much time quoffing Massolino Vigna Rionda Riserva rather than mixing with toxic masculine football fans. Racism is a real issue, not something outsiders are obsessing over.
And it's not just football either.
He probably has a point about the Guardian though. It’s gone downhill since Rusbridger left.
Yes it's a terrible paper. All over the place.
I'm a susbcriber - I think it's fine. If you don't like it don't read it.
By all accounts it is not a happy office, at the moment
"Guardian Media Group chief Annette Thomas quits after clash with editor Publishing boss disagreed with Katharine Viner over direction and governance of group"
That mad Scottish Nat - Calista Hebburn - was a fascinating example of how just one person with fake but incendiary opinions can inflame thousands.
Social media has been weaponised by the Russians and Chinese, and turned against us. And it is getting worse
I read today that the Chinese now have their own version of GPT-3- the quasi intelligent NLP robot. Except this is 10 times bigger than GPT-3, and has been fed on English AND Chinese. It is called Wu Dao.
Google and Microsoft are trying to make GPT-3 stay Woke and they are restricting access partly for that reason. The Chinese will have no such scruples. Wu Dao could invent a hundred Calista Hebburns every day, roiling our politics. Perhaps Wu Dao WAS responsible for Calista Hebburn. Her syntax had the odd, umami flavour of AI thought
"GPT-3 Scared You? Meet Wu Dao 2.0: A Monster of 1.75 Trillion Parameters"
A couple of years ago FrancisUrquhart posted a link to a podcast about disinformation — it may have been the Sam Harris podcast — where the researcher explained the scope of the issue. Now the interview was regarding social media disinformation related to the 2016 election, but the researcher explained that foreign actors, mainly Russia, were pushing every button on every controversial issue you could think of. Guns, race, gender, taxes, the environment, it went on and on.
Ever since then whenever I read some particularly vexing comment I think "is this person real or am I being manipulated?" Sometimes I'll look at their post history, and though I can't prove it I do quite often find a level of either obsession or I suspect a clear intent to sow discord.
If disinformation becomes automated, if it's not already, we will drown in it, and it will do enormous harm to democratic societies.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
But none of that is racist. You don't look at a black or Asian person, see the colour of their skin and think they're scum.
Again, I'll speak from my perspective. If this had happened in my company and an employee was caught being racist in this manner I'd want them out. If the company didn't do it I'd start to consider my own options and whether it was worth staying somewhere that was okay with employing known racists.
Oh, I think he definitely had to go. I don't disagree with the dismissal.
It's the long-term route back and rehabilitation I was pondering.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
It's worth noting that old holborn has something that deletes all tweets after a week. I suspect something that deleted all social media posts after a month or so would be rather popular and a sane step for a lot of people.
If Twitter simply installed a gizmo that automatically barred tweets that contained the N word (and others?) that would save a lot of grief all round. It already queries tweets that seem offensively aggressive
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
It's worth noting that old holborn has something that deletes all tweets after a week. I suspect something that deleted all social media posts after a month or so would be rather popular and a sane step for a lot of people.
Been watching the India v England Women's T20. The bowling is pretty poor but the ball striking is pretty good. To hit a 6 at Chelmsford is easy for the men but some women can do it. Good by England.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
Hack a famous account and it probably gets clocked as a hack early on as the famous person releases a statement to that effect. This is some random but easily identifiable guy. By the time it comes out as hack, everyone has moved a long.
But I think the most likely explanation is that it was him and he can’t bring himself to own up.
Either that or he was so pissed he doesn't remember doing it. And doesn't consider himself the kind of person who would do such a thing when sober. This is quite common. And often the most dangerous type.
If someone's racist when they're drunk, they're hiding it when they're sober.
Well indeed. But the ones who haven't integrated it are the ones to watch.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
It's worth noting that old holborn has something that deletes all tweets after a week. I suspect something that deleted all social media posts after a month or so would be rather popular and a sane step for a lot of people.
If Twitter simply installed a gizmo that automatically barred tweets that contained the N word (and others?) that would save a lot of grief all round. It already queries tweets that seem offensively aggressive
The internet tried that in the early days which resulted in Scunthorpe not existing in a lot of places.
After years of studying it, I believe that cryptocurrency is an inherently right-wing, hyper-capitalistic technology built primarily to amplify the wealth of its proponents through a combination of tax avoidance, diminished regulatory oversight and artificially enforced scarcity.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Look at it from the perspective of his colleagues many of whom there are surely black and Asian. Is it fair on them to be working with someone who thinks they're scum? Would you risk them walking out to other companies to hold on to a known racist?
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
Far too judgemental. We all say mad things from time to time, especially in moments of great emotion (like England losing a final on penalties)
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
I've been drunk and posted stuff on here in the past I've subsequently regretted.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
You've never been racist, though and you've never openly called any black person a n****r. As I said earlier, you need to look at it from the perspective of his non-white colleagues and potential managers. Why should they work alongside someone who thinks they're scum?
I haven't, although I have told a couple of stereotype jokes in the past that (by today's standards) would probably land me in trouble. I also used the word "gay" to mean "crap" like virtually everyone else in the late 1990s. I laughed at "women drivers" jokes. Probably did at "blokes in dresses" too. A bit laddish. A bit Inbetweeners.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
It's worth noting that old holborn has something that deletes all tweets after a week. I suspect something that deleted all social media posts after a month or so would be rather popular and a sane step for a lot of people.
If Twitter simply installed a gizmo that automatically barred tweets that contained the N word (and others?) that would save a lot of grief all round. It already queries tweets that seem offensively aggressive
The internet tried that in the early days which resulted in Scunthorpe not existing in a lot of places.
An example is the Saville's Manager who is currently suspended and under police investigation.
He's claiming his account was hacked. Not sure how likely that is, but I did wonder just how dumb someone would have to be to have an identifiable Twitter account and a Linkedin account and to say what he said. But then people do stupid things, especially if they've had a bit to drink.
His remarks were disgusting and indefensible but at some level I feel sorry for him.
Given his public notoriety will he ever be able to find work again now? How does he rehabilitate?
Yes, while these things deserve condemnation and even public recasting, lifelong loss of income is an excessively harsh punishment.
No one should have their life destroyed for saying "a word"
Utterly ridiculous. We have gone mad
I used to compare our neurotic obsession with race to the weirdness of Victorian attitudes to sex (covering up naughty chair legs, etc)
I now think we are crazier than the Victorians
Why would anyone hire him? He's effectively taken himself out of the running for the vast majority of jobs by being a racist knobhead. I'm a hiring manager, it would be very difficult to convince me to hire this idiot even to a trivial admin role.
I'm sure you're right. This guy will face severe problems for a long time
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
Stop being a racist prick and it will stop being an issue. 🤷♂️
Isn't that Leon's point though?
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
The issue is that instead of making a public apology for it and saying he'd atone etc... he's blaming it on being hacked which is laughable. He had a slim opportunity to apologise and maybe keep enough of his reputation intact to find work elsewhere. The problem is he's not sorry, he's a racist.
Do we know for sure he is lying about the hacking?
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Yep - because it just isn't plausible - who would hack an existing twitter account to post a few racists posts over months in a way that the poster wouldn't notice.
Oh, there's more than just the one post?
I seem to recall there were others when people went through his account.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
Hack a famous account and it probably gets clocked as a hack early on as the famous person releases a statement to that effect. This is some random but easily identifiable guy. By the time it comes out as hack, everyone has moved a long.
But I think the most likely explanation is that it was him and he can’t bring himself to own up.
Either that or he was so pissed he doesn't remember doing it. And doesn't consider himself the kind of person who would do such a thing when sober. This is quite common. And often the most dangerous type.
If someone's racist when they're drunk, they're hiding it when they're sober.
Comments
My point is that it is way over the top. The public shame is, by itself, enough of a deterrent, does he have to lose his livelihood?
The obsession with race is a disease. Look at the Guardian's online front page. At least 14 headlines are directly about race and racism (and other stories are variously connected). It is monomaniacal, and it is unhealthy. And I have no doubt that a lot of it is being cleverly stoked by Russian and Chinese bots and trolls
https://www.theguardian.com/uk
I don't think we should shun and push such people into the fringes of society; we should give them a way out and help convert them.
That kind of discussion is going to be replicated across workplaces in the country. The risk/reward ratio for hiring him is extremely poor.
Also the head of MI5 says most of the abusive social media posts came from inside the UK.
He consciously set out to transform Labour for government, placed massive pressure on the Tories, and of course won a landslide.
Harold Wilson probably second yes.
Hugh Gaitskell is underrated maybe. So is John Howard who cleaned up a lot of Hague/IDS garbage.
Miliband should be near bottom. He sowed the seeds of Corbynism.
I thought he brushed aside the question and then advised we clean our own house first. But I don’t think he actually denied those reports of Russian bots.
I know he said they weren't from foreign governments.
Actions have consequence. This is a case of a racist knobhead chatting shit and getting banged.
The head of MI5 has dismissed claims that Russian bots are responsible for online racist abuse against England footballers and said that this country should shoulder the blame for the problem.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/racism-online-against-england-penalty-takers-is-britains-problem-not-from-russia-kgt0g5c9h
And it's not just football either.
Who is right?
The Head of MI5 comments were actually more nuanced too - he said it was uncommon and it had happened in the past, but he didn't currently see it as a problem with most far-right groups being domestic:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57829261
Do you mean Standard (which includes cautions, warnings, reprimands)..
This guy could stop being a racist prick tomorrow but this will always be an issue because it will follow him around for the rest of his life.
I'm also guessing his credit file is about to go south, which is also another block on careers in certain sectors.
Actions have consequences. Their anti-woke agenda which is (of course) all about pandering to the kind of nasty right wing English nationalism that got them elected is a self-fulfilling spiral of hate.
I've never known my country to be so toxic, so nasty, such a thoroughly unpleasant place in which to be living. The blame lies largely at the doors of Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson.
If this dude has a history of racism, then fair enough, but just one word said in anger or sadness or whatever? No. Why can't he be allowed to apologise profusely, and continue with his life? A bit of Christian forgiveness wouldn't go amiss
Also, this case shows just how easy it is to ruin lives by hacking social media, should you be so inclined. Just get into a Twitter account and make them say the N word. Bingo, they are cancelled, career finished. Bonkers
Ultimately it was the main part of PMQs today. If foreign actors are doing this, they are influencing our politics. That needs to be called out as much as Brexit or Trump.
Margaret Thatcher looks far too high. I do not remember her being a great LotO. She inherited the election win on the back of the Winter of Discontent and other Labour travails. The barracking which until recently was a feature of PMQs started out as a Conservative tactic to boost Thatcher because she was not very good in the Commons.
Genuine question. I have not read the deets of this case
Instead he's said he got hacked. Which is simply ridiculous and a waste of police time.
Thankfully, we have forgiving editors and mods on here who largely know the posters and can assess if, fundamentally, they're a good or bad egg or not.
Sometimes it's complicated.
Bit even if there wasn't way would you hack an account with 1000 or so followers and post a racist tweet - if you can hack into twitter there will be way bigger accounts you could access and use.
MI5 would focus on meeting the domestic threats.
They didn't simply get random racist posts over a series of months.
He was arrested a few times but never charged/convicted.
Now if someone had looked to see his arrest record it would have been a great big red flag not to hire him at a school.
I think he was arrested five times for rape/sexual assault, including one on a ten year old girl, whom he threatened to kill if she told anyone.
Social media has been weaponised by the Russians and Chinese, and turned against us. And it is getting worse
I read today that the Chinese now have their own version of GPT-3- the quasi intelligent NLP robot. Except this is 10 times bigger than GPT-3, and has been fed on English AND Chinese. It is called Wu Dao.
Google and Microsoft are trying to make GPT-3 stay Woke and they are restricting access partly for that reason. The Chinese will have no such scruples. Wu Dao could invent a hundred Calista Hebburns every day, roiling our politics. Perhaps Wu Dao WAS responsible for Calista Hebburn. Her syntax had the odd, umami flavour of AI thought
"GPT-3 Scared You? Meet Wu Dao 2.0: A Monster of 1.75 Trillion Parameters"
https://towardsdatascience.com/gpt-3-scared-you-meet-wu-dao-2-0-a-monster-of-1-75-trillion-parameters-832cd83db484
More money spaffed up the wall...
But I think the most likely explanation is that it was him and he can’t bring himself to own up.
Never touch the stuff myself, my body is a poorly maintained temple, so no such luck.
All of those could finish me in certain circles (most?) today if I'd made them on social media under my own name and they were discoverable.
I really think some of this is there but for the grace of God go I.
We should all read it.
I as a broad centre type person am almost scared to post here in case someone is nasty to me!
😊
"Guardian Media Group chief Annette Thomas quits after clash with editor
Publishing boss disagreed with Katharine Viner over direction and governance of group"
https://www.ft.com/content/e43573b6-bc94-4d22-beb6-f41c05d9ddf6
The New York Times is a huge threat to them, in the medium term
Again, I'll speak from my perspective. If this had happened in my company and an employee was caught being racist in this manner I'd want them out. If the company didn't do it I'd start to consider my own options and whether it was worth staying somewhere that was okay with employing known racists.
This is quite common. And often the most dangerous type.
Many would disagree with you, indeed some militant identitarians would like to see YOU cancelled for holding that same opinion. This is thin ice for us all
Ever since then whenever I read some particularly vexing comment I think "is this person real or am I being manipulated?" Sometimes I'll look at their post history, and though I can't prove it I do quite often find a level of either obsession or I suspect a clear intent to sow discord.
If disinformation becomes automated, if it's not already, we will drown in it, and it will do enormous harm to democratic societies.
I repeat, I don't like Boris but every thread is somehow anti Boris or anti Govt. A bit of balance would not go amiss.
It's the long-term route back and rehabilitation I was pondering.
https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/1415353984617914370 is the thread - this is the interesting bit
After years of studying it, I believe that cryptocurrency is an inherently right-wing, hyper-capitalistic technology built primarily to amplify the wealth of its proponents through a combination of tax avoidance, diminished regulatory oversight and artificially enforced scarcity.