FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
If such fear is irrational then how do we explain friends who have double-jabbed relatives now seriously ill? Saying "statistically you now have less chance of contracting Covid and less chance of dying" doesn't mean you can't catch it and get seriously ill. To say nothing of the risk of Long Covid.
A smaller percentage off much larger case numbers surely means you have as much chance of getting ill now as you did a few months back when case numbers were a trickle.
Lord Frost tells Lords Ctte that increased cross border trade in Ireland is ‘in many ways a problem’ & he doesn’t want to encourage more of it.
Pressed by the Ctte chair he says it’s a problem because it reflects the fact NI businesses are finding it more difficult to source goods from preferred GB suppliers.
It's almost like Boris didn't understand the consequences of
1) moving a border from the Northern Ireland / Ireland border to the Irish Sea... 2) that extra paperwork is a disincentive of selling to NI
TBF Boris understood the two big things: Brexit had to happen. There had to be a deal. The first was public, the second was obvious but could not be admitted.
Critics need to say how he could have solved the NI puzzle better. What I think he did was accept a deal - the only deal - available and privately plan to refix it once it obviously couldn't work. For an NI deal to work requires the EU to shift its own red lines, and not just us.
May's had the border issue being an EU issue between the Northern Ireland and Ireland itself. Boris removed the EUs biggest problem without even pausing to think of the consequences.
This is interesting. Sadiq Khan has said he wants non-TfL let train companies (i.e. your SWRs, Southerns, LNERs, etc.) to enforce mask wearing in Greater London in the same way that they'll have to in Wales or Scotland.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
Its possible - horrifying as it may be for you - that on some issues you can judge right and wrong without consulting an opinion poll.
Besides All Voters 55% is really the most relevant stat in that poll.
Taking the knee is the populist thing to do.
Not if your electorate is the relevant Tory party selectorate in, say, Westminster, or Epping. Nobody else counts. Edit: not getting at you - but genuinely wondering how much that is a factor - and how long the dissonance can be balanced.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
Do those Conservatives who do not support taking the knee also support BOOING those taking the knee? I very much doubt most do.
That's the big danger for Johnson. In pandering to the base (an activity of which I know you are a huge fan) he's allowed himself to be cast in a bad light even for those in his base. This issue could have been closed down pre-tournament, but Patel's comments weren't corrected, and headbanger Tory MPs weren't disciplined.
I'd also note that 38% is a heck of a lot of Tories. Not saying at all that this issue will do it on its own, but Major only needed to lose around a quarter of voters in his 1992 triumph to go down in flames in 1997. Indeed, it's that 38% that Conservatives need to pander to most of all as they are the ones most likely to shop elsewhere for their political leaders.
This is what Cameron understood with his "hug a hoody" and "hug a huskie" messaging, the 0.7% of GDP stuff etc. None of that was about the base - the Tory base varies from agnostic to hostile on such things. It's about the Blair voters and soggy centre.
Good post. The base aren't going anywhere else, now post-Brexit.
They need to worry about me. An ex-Cons voter now thoroughly disaffected by the make up of the Party and is looking around to see what's on offer. So far SKS ain't it but I thought he had a good PMQs today and there will be some for whom a sustained good run by him will do much to sway their vote.
Did you vote Tory in 2019? If not then no, we don't need to worry about you
Yes me old mucker, I voted Tory in 2019.
Now, how can you help me...
Well even if we lose a few like you to the LDs or Starmer it will not make much difference as long as we stay at 40%+ in the polls
Lord Frost tells Lords Ctte that increased cross border trade in Ireland is ‘in many ways a problem’ & he doesn’t want to encourage more of it.
Pressed by the Ctte chair he says it’s a problem because it reflects the fact NI businesses are finding it more difficult to source goods from preferred GB suppliers.
It's almost like Boris didn't understand the consequences of
1) moving a border from the Northern Ireland / Ireland border to the Irish Sea... 2) that extra paperwork is a disincentive of selling to NI
TBF Boris understood the two big things: Brexit had to happen. There had to be a deal. The first was public, the second was obvious but could not be admitted.
Critics need to say how he could have solved the NI puzzle better. What I think he did was accept a deal - the only deal - available and privately plan to refix it once it obviously couldn't work. For an NI deal to work requires the EU to shift its own red lines, and not just us.
There was another deal available. He even voted for it
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
If such fear is irrational then how do we explain friends who have double-jabbed relatives now seriously ill? Saying "statistically you now have less chance of contracting Covid and less chance of dying" doesn't mean you can't catch it and get seriously ill. To say nothing of the risk of Long Covid.
A smaller percentage off much larger case numbers surely means you have as much chance of getting ill now as you did a few months back when case numbers were a trickle.
Also if the wider background has changed. People are behaving differently and the new pox is more catching. Easily make up for a 1/10 chance of catching the pox compared to before, if things had not changed.
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Even I’m bored of the relentless discussion on “taking the knee”. Boring.
Ps the Government’s investment in industry in the North East is very impressive. I’m getting involved in quite a bit of it in my new job and there’s some very exciting stuff coming down the pipeline. It doesn’t undo decades of neglect but it’s a start. Credit where it’s due.
Is it all Teesside based or is any of it, apart from the two battery factories finding its was up to Tyne and Wear and the surrounding areas ?
This week's big Teesside story is Barclaycard shutting and consolidating to Sunderland. 1,000 jobs going.
Even I’m bored of the relentless discussion on “taking the knee”. Boring.
Ps the Government’s investment in industry in the North East is very impressive. I’m getting involved in quite a bit of it in my new job and there’s some very exciting stuff coming down the pipeline. It doesn’t undo decades of neglect but it’s a start. Credit where it’s due.
Is it all Teesside based or is any of it, apart from the two battery factories finding its was up to Tyne and Wear and the surrounding areas ?
This week's big Teesside story is Barclaycard shutting and consolidating to Sunderland. 1,000 jobs going.
"There are no compulsory redundancies for Barclays employees as a result of today’s announcement." as we hope the new commute will annoy them so much that they find another job (that bit of the A19 is awful at the best of times although most of the farm entrances have been removed over the past 8 years).
Apart from the lease running out (it's been 20 years) and the ability to get workers to resign rather than make them redundant, I don't see any justification for it. Beyond Barclays being the cheapskates that they are renowned as being.
Lord Frost tells Lords Ctte that increased cross border trade in Ireland is ‘in many ways a problem’ & he doesn’t want to encourage more of it.
Pressed by the Ctte chair he says it’s a problem because it reflects the fact NI businesses are finding it more difficult to source goods from preferred GB suppliers.
It's almost like Boris didn't understand the consequences of
1) moving a border from the Northern Ireland / Ireland border to the Irish Sea... 2) that extra paperwork is a disincentive of selling to NI
TBF Boris understood the two big things: Brexit had to happen. There had to be a deal. The first was public, the second was obvious but could not be admitted.
Critics need to say how he could have solved the NI puzzle better. What I think he did was accept a deal - the only deal - available and privately plan to refix it once it obviously couldn't work. For an NI deal to work requires the EU to shift its own red lines, and not just us.
There was another deal available. He even voted for it
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid. The last gasp of the Zero Covid squad.
If vaccinations of the vulnerable are done and the NHS is at no risk of collapse and you still don't want to lift lockdown and dump masks because of "Long Covid" then what is your exit route from this?
Do we remain with lockdowns forever until we have Zero Covid? And then have more lockdowns forever to prevent it resparking?
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
Fine evening here in downtown east London. Newham now has 56% first vaccination and 35.5% with both vaccinations so it progresses but slowly.
Talking to people in my cosy middle-class circle of work colleagues, it's clear there's a lot of caution still out here even among those doubly vaccinated. The assumption is almost you are as vulnerable to the virus now as before vaccination. The statistical evidence is being overridden by anecdotal and media reports of doubly vaccinated people getting ill.
I don't want the virus - no one does - and it's clear a lot of people, as is their right, are quite risk-averse when it comes to things like this.
Calling them "scared" or "frightened" isn't helpful - we now have the notion some statistics shouldn't be published. I didn't realise the antidote to fear is ignorance ad if that's where we now are, we are in a very dark place.
I posed the question - "should I wear a mask in a train carriage if I am the only passenger in that carriage?". Irrespective of the conditions of carriage, the majority view was I should - apparently I could be breathing virus droplets all over the carriage and even if someone got on at the other end of the carriage, I should wear a mask.
I struggled with that in truth - yes, in a crowded Underground train, I see the argument but to sit, alone, in a railway carriage and have to wear a mask having been doubly vaccinated.
That's where we are - the Prime Minister has abdicated leadership in favour of granting us all "personal responsibility" I'm not wholly against it - there will be a minority (5-10%) who are entirely self-centred and do whatever they want irrespective - but the notion we should, as responsible individuals, be able to be as risk-averse as we please isn't unattractive but it's not a risk-free option especially if sectors like hospitality aspire to the "good old days".
I'll be honest - I quite like reduced crowd sizes because it makes for a more attractive experience. 10,000 on a Saturday night at Lingfield is awful - 4,000 would be pleasant. The problem is it's all about money and the bottom line - capitalism crams people in to racecourses and tube trains.
Mrs Stodge is being forced (her word) back to the office two days a week from next week. I'm no fan of any form of compulsion in these matters - we should have mature organisational cultures which can function whether individuals are in an office environment or not. I've never and would never advocate compulsory home working - the hybrid approach seems to be gaining traction in many organisations and there needs to be some far more original thinking about the nature of work.
Lord Frost tells Lords Ctte that increased cross border trade in Ireland is ‘in many ways a problem’ & he doesn’t want to encourage more of it.
Pressed by the Ctte chair he says it’s a problem because it reflects the fact NI businesses are finding it more difficult to source goods from preferred GB suppliers.
It's almost like Boris didn't understand the consequences of
1) moving a border from the Northern Ireland / Ireland border to the Irish Sea... 2) that extra paperwork is a disincentive of selling to NI
TBF Boris understood the two big things: Brexit had to happen. There had to be a deal. The first was public, the second was obvious but could not be admitted.
Critics need to say how he could have solved the NI puzzle better. What I think he did was accept a deal - the only deal - available and privately plan to refix it once it obviously couldn't work. For an NI deal to work requires the EU to shift its own red lines, and not just us.
There was another deal available. He even voted for it
The other deal wouldn’t have been seen as Brexit.
Given he voted for it he might have been able to sell it.
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid.
Did you see Boris in today's PMQs? Compare him today to him back in 2019 and tell me that Covid doesn't have long term side effects.
The evidence among rhe unvaccinated is long covid isn't related to severity that you suffer covid. Are there actually been any studies that have looked at if long covid is a thing in fully vaccinated individuals and if so is it again is severity is reduced etc.
Independent SAGE love to band about long covid as the bogeyman, it isn't as prevelent as they claim according to Tim Spector, its low single digits. Independent SAGE play fast and loose, literally anything still not 100%, long COVID. It still definitely effects a good number of people.
And i read the ONS survey about reinfection, where people in the vast vast majority suffer very mild illness., But not seen anything about long covid in relation to vaccinated patients.
People are thoroughly pissed off about being messed around. Some blame the government, others the caprices of the pox. But scared? On the internet, perhaps. Out in the real world people are behaving as nor.ally as they can. The Euros showed this, but so does any trip to your local shops, your local park, anywhere people go. No one is particularly social distancing. The handshake is creeping back as a form of greeting. Almost no one is masking where they are not legally required to. Many are not masking even where they ARE legally required to. People are out pursuing wealth and happiness. Maybe there is a cohort of frightened Patricias cowering at home with only the apocalyptic tones of the BBC for company. But the real world doesn't seem any quieter without them.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
Do those Conservatives who do not support taking the knee also support BOOING those taking the knee? I very much doubt most do.
That's the big danger for Johnson. In pandering to the base (an activity of which I know you are a huge fan) he's allowed himself to be cast in a bad light even for those in his base. This issue could have been closed down pre-tournament, but Patel's comments weren't corrected, and headbanger Tory MPs weren't disciplined.
I'd also note that 38% is a heck of a lot of Tories. Not saying at all that this issue will do it on its own, but Major only needed to lose around a quarter of voters in his 1992 triumph to go down in flames in 1997. Indeed, it's that 38% that Conservatives need to pander to most of all as they are the ones most likely to shop elsewhere for their political leaders.
This is what Cameron understood with his "hug a hoody" and "hug a huskie" messaging, the 0.7% of GDP stuff etc. None of that was about the base - the Tory base varies from agnostic to hostile on such things. It's about the Blair voters and soggy centre.
Good post. The base aren't going anywhere else, now post-Brexit.
They need to worry about me. An ex-Cons voter now thoroughly disaffected by the make up of the Party and is looking around to see what's on offer. So far SKS ain't it but I thought he had a good PMQs today and there will be some for whom a sustained good run by him will do much to sway their vote.
Did you vote Tory in 2019? If not then no, we don't need to worry about you
Yes me old mucker, I voted Tory in 2019.
Now, how can you help me...
I think you're a little bit like JackW, actually.
You're a core and loyal Conservative - you always vote that way, and even campaign that way at times - but adopt a more critical persona on here because you like to test your own thinking and challenge others too.
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid.
Did you see Boris in today's PMQs? Compare him today to him back in 2019 and tell me that Covid doesn't have long term side effects.
Boris has always been a bit goofy.
But he was on a sticky wicket in today's PMQ's as so many of his MPs have taken the wrong side in a culture war and he knows it. Dickheads like HYUFD's MP counterpart Elphicke and others really gave Starmer an open goal today and Boris knew it.
Even I’m bored of the relentless discussion on “taking the knee”. Boring.
Ps the Government’s investment in industry in the North East is very impressive. I’m getting involved in quite a bit of it in my new job and there’s some very exciting stuff coming down the pipeline. It doesn’t undo decades of neglect but it’s a start. Credit where it’s due.
Is it all Teesside based or is any of it, apart from the two battery factories finding its was up to Tyne and Wear and the surrounding areas ?
This week's big Teesside story is Barclaycard shutting and consolidating to Sunderland. 1,000 jobs going.
"There are no compulsory redundancies for Barclays employees as a result of today’s announcement." as we hope the new commute will annoy them so much that they find another job (that bit of the A19 is awful at the best of times although most of the farm entrances have been removed over the past 8 years).
Apart from the lease running out (it's been 20 years) and the ability to get workers to resign rather than make them redundant, I don't see any justification for it. Beyond Barclays being the cheapskates that they are renowned as being.
Yep - and Northumbrian Water did an even bigger "we hope for no redundancies" leap a few years back when they also shut their Thornaby office to transfer north of Newcastle.
For all that Teesside is supposed to be super sexy excitement land now that it had Ben Houchen International Airport, it is still shedding lots of jobs.
Fine evening here in downtown east London. Newham now has 56% first vaccination and 35.5% with both vaccinations so it progresses but slowly.
Talking to people in my cosy middle-class circle of work colleagues, it's clear there's a lot of caution still out here even among those doubly vaccinated. The assumption is almost you are as vulnerable to the virus now as before vaccination. The statistical evidence is being overridden by anecdotal and media reports of doubly vaccinated people getting ill.
I don't want the virus - no one does - and it's clear a lot of people, as is their right, are quite risk-averse when it comes to things like this.
Calling them "scared" or "frightened" isn't helpful - we now have the notion some statistics shouldn't be published. I didn't realise the antidote to fear is ignorance ad if that's where we now are, we are in a very dark place.
I posed the question - "should I wear a mask in a train carriage if I am the only passenger in that carriage?". Irrespective of the conditions of carriage, the majority view was I should - apparently I could be breathing virus droplets all over the carriage and even if someone got on at the other end of the carriage, I should wear a mask.
I struggled with that in truth - yes, in a crowded Underground train, I see the argument but to sit, alone, in a railway carriage and have to wear a mask having been doubly vaccinated.
That's where we are - the Prime Minister has abdicated leadership in favour of granting us all "personal responsibility" I'm not wholly against it - there will be a minority (5-10%) who are entirely self-centred and do whatever they want irrespective - but the notion we should, as responsible individuals, be able to be as risk-averse as we please isn't unattractive but it's not a risk-free option especially if sectors like hospitality aspire to the "good old days".
I'll be honest - I quite like reduced crowd sizes because it makes for a more attractive experience. 10,000 on a Saturday night at Lingfield is awful - 4,000 would be pleasant. The problem is it's all about money and the bottom line - capitalism crams people in to racecourses and tube trains.
Mrs Stodge is being forced (her word) back to the office two days a week from next week. I'm no fan of any form of compulsion in these matters - we should have mature organisational cultures which can function whether individuals are in an office environment or not. I've never and would never advocate compulsory home working - the hybrid approach seems to be gaining traction in many organisations and there needs to be some far more original thinking about the nature of work.
Thanks for the post. I disagree with 95% of it but it's important to read contrary views.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
Lionel Messi has agreed to stay at Barcelona on a deal until 2026 that includes reducing his wages to half of his previous salary.
How will he manage on just £60 million a year...have to shop at Lidl now. I believe his previous wages accounted for nearly half the total Barcelona first team wage bill.
Still a billion in the hole, economics of the mad house.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I'm really bored by The Knee, and view it is an irritating American import like Black Friday the genesis of which most of those doing it don't understand, but I think to some extent it's a self-correcting problem.
If it's associated with critical race theory (all too easy given that kneeling is a sign of submission) such that doing the gesture is implicitly a concession to concepts like "white privilege" within a intersectionality power dynamic, whilst at the same time statues are pulled down, and Marxists rattle on about "decolonisation", then it will be divisive and it's popularity will diminish.
However, if it becomes so widespread such that it simply means, "I don't like and stand against racism", then it will become trendy and non-contentious because it will become so mainstream it will cease to be "owned" by the Marxist Left, therefore no longer be controversial.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
Even I’m bored of the relentless discussion on “taking the knee”. Boring.
Ps the Government’s investment in industry in the North East is very impressive. I’m getting involved in quite a bit of it in my new job and there’s some very exciting stuff coming down the pipeline. It doesn’t undo decades of neglect but it’s a start. Credit where it’s due.
Is it all Teesside based or is any of it, apart from the two battery factories finding its was up to Tyne and Wear and the surrounding areas ?
This week's big Teesside story is Barclaycard shutting and consolidating to Sunderland. 1,000 jobs going.
"There are no compulsory redundancies for Barclays employees as a result of today’s announcement." as we hope the new commute will annoy them so much that they find another job (that bit of the A19 is awful at the best of times although most of the farm entrances have been removed over the past 8 years).
Apart from the lease running out (it's been 20 years) and the ability to get workers to resign rather than make them redundant, I don't see any justification for it. Beyond Barclays being the cheapskates that they are renowned as being.
Yep - and Northumbrian Water did an even bigger "we hope for no redundancies" leap a few years back when they also shut their Thornaby office to transfer north of Newcastle.
For all that Teesside is supposed to be super sexy excitement land now that it had Ben Houchen International Airport, it is still shedding lots of jobs.
Now it's 9 years since I worked at Doxford Park and I do remember that Barclaycard had a mare with parking. And the Teesside Live article highlights the issues
The Sunderland office has a 5 year waiting list for a car parking space and we essentially have to park near by and get a shuttle bus to work. 40% of your time needs to be in the office (which explains why a full office in Sunderland suddenly has space for 1000 extra workers.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I agree with this in most part.
Priti Patel was right to say that people had the right to boo the gesture. She was wrong not to condemn that booing as both oafish and potentially racist in effect. I have increasing reservations about supporting a government that thinks she is a suitable person to be Home Secretary. This and the points made by @Cyclefree in her header this morning, even although I thought they were overstated, drive me to the conclusion that she does not engender British attitudes of tolerance, mutual respect and kindness. We need a better Home Secretary.
My views on the gesture itself have developed from some degree of skepticism and incredulity that this gesture reflecting American racial tensions and then police murder was thought to be relevant to our experience in the UK to an increasing degree of acceptance that a significant number of our ethnic minorities feel oppressed in this way and that their concerns are worthy of respect and proper consideration.
To be clear I would never have been so obnoxious as to boo this but I am now a lot more supportive of the gesture than I was 6 months ago.
That's probably where I am too with this - not often I agree with David L.
Wholesale Americanisation of our race relations seems a mistake but in many ways I do think the players have taken ownership of the knee gesture for themselves and if it reflects the abuse directed on social media then I can understand it. I wouldn't assume booing equals racism but a healthly scepticism towards the protagonists seems wise.
I am highly woke sceptical but the only time that I got really bothered about taking the knee was when the police did it. It just looked pathetic and that they were afraid of the mob.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
Let's hope so. Rishi Sunak would be almost impossible to beat at the next election if he's Tory leader.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
And the very best of British luck to you there, sir....
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
It kinda isn't, the double jabbed have friends/family who haven't been double jabbed yet, so worry about them.
They should go and moan at their MP and force the government to ignore the JCVI on the arbitrary 8 week gap. It's solving tomorrow's problem by ignoring today's. We can solve tomorrow's problem tomorrow by extending booster jabs down to all adults. Get them to bitch about no decision on vaccines for 12-17 year olds as well while you're at it. Completely idiotic that we're not getting on with it asap for all teenagers who want it or parents who want their kids to have it.
We are now seeing Pfizer vaccine doses pile up as our 60m order has commenced.
There is defintely not a shortage of supply of vaccines in the UK whatsoever.
Indeed, loads is currently sitting in fridges unused because the JCVI are flunking the decision on kids and forcing under 40s to wait for 8 weeks completely unnecessarily. We could bring that gap down to 3/4 weeks tomorrow and start doing 300-400k second doses per day and get the whole programme complete by the second week of August.
Protection is better if you wait until 8 weeks -> so not unnecessarily.
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid. The last gasp of the Zero Covid squad.
If vaccinations of the vulnerable are done and the NHS is at no risk of collapse and you still don't want to lift lockdown and dump masks because of "Long Covid" then what is your exit route from this?
Do we remain with lockdowns forever until we have Zero Covid? And then have more lockdowns forever to prevent it resparking?
I'm on record saying that I crave a return to normality so I'm certainly not one of the Zero Covid squad. There are two schools of thought - those who think lifting almost all restrictions in the middle of a big spike is Fucking Stupid, and those who insist that it is madness to have any concerns at all as pandemic over.
One side has the rest of the world. The other side is you, max and the government. Nor can we hide behind the claim that Britain uniquely is more vaccinated by anyone else. No longer true.
So no, we don't stay with "lockdowns forever". I don't anyone who is advocating that on here. What we needed to drop was the "no masks, no risk" bullshit. Which they have done.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
The trick for the Tories will be to replace Johnson with Sunak at the right moment so that Labour don't have time to replace Starmer in time for the next election. If they do it too soon Labour will realise they need to change their leader in order to stand a chance, (although there's no guarantee a Starmer replacement will be any better at the job).
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
Let's hope so. Rishi Sunak would be almost impossible to beat at the next election if he's Tory leader.
The perfect play for the Tories if to get through COVID crisis, then shuffle off Boris. The public inquiry will mostly dump on Boris and Hancock handling and Sunak, other than eat out to help out (and actually i don't think that actually harmed him), has been seen to have a good pandemic.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
And the very best of British luck to you there, sir....
This year it's so out of sync with reality that it's a very easy argument. The 2021 figure for average annual wage growth is due to Covid's impact on 2020 wages so another method (insert ideas here) will be used.
Lionel Messi has agreed to stay at Barcelona on a deal until 2026 that includes reducing his wages to half of his previous salary.
How will he manage on just £60 million a year...have to shop at Lidl now. I believe his previous wages accounted for nearly half the total Barcelona first team wage bill.
Still a billion in the hole, economics of the mad house.
Are they, Real Madrid and Juventus still in the super league and in danger of being kicked out of the Champions League by UEFA?
Lionel Messi has agreed to stay at Barcelona on a deal until 2026 that includes reducing his wages to half of his previous salary.
How will he manage on just £60 million a year...have to shop at Lidl now. I believe his previous wages accounted for nearly half the total Barcelona first team wage bill.
Still a billion in the hole, economics of the mad house.
Are they, Real Madrid and Juventus still in the super league and in danger of being kicked out of the Champions League by UEFA?
According to the Athletic yes and they need to sell £200m worth of players to afford Messi and keep the wolf from the door.
Apparently the head of La Liga has said to Barcelona and Real Madrid enough is enough, you need to get your house in order.
There was talk of some funny business of paying Messi in the future in order to get his wages off the books for the forthcoming years.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
Let's hope so. Rishi Sunak would be almost impossible to beat at the next election if he's Tory leader.
The perfect play for the Tories if to get through COVID crisis, then shuffle off Boris. The public inquiry will mostly dump on Boris and Hancock handling and Sunak, other than eat out to help out (and actually i don't think that actually harmed him), has been seen to have a good pandemic.
They thought when Blair went Iraq etc would go with him. It didn't and I doubt it will leave 'Eat out to help out' Richi either. He was a Brexiteer supporter of Johnson. Hopefully that will be enough to see him off.
Boris is smart enough to know when it’s time to go, if he thought he wouldn’t win the next election he’d step aside. As a student of history his legacy is more important than his duty to serve as it was with May who had to be dragged out number 10.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
Let's hope so. Rishi Sunak would be almost impossible to beat at the next election if he's Tory leader.
The perfect play for the Tories if to get through COVID crisis, then shuffle off Boris. The public inquiry will mostly dump on Boris and Hancock handling and Sunak, other than eat out to help out (and actually i don't think that actually harmed him), has been seen to have a good pandemic.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
Let's hope so. Rishi Sunak would be almost impossible to beat at the next election if he's Tory leader.
The perfect play for the Tories if to get through COVID crisis, then shuffle off Boris. The public inquiry will mostly dump on Boris and Hancock handling and Sunak, other than eat out to help out (and actually i don't think that actually harmed him), has been seen to have a good pandemic.
They thought when Blair went Iraq etc would go with him. It didn't and I doubt it will leave 'Eat out to help out' Richi either. He was a Brexiteer supporter of Johnson. Hopefully that will be enough to see him off.
He’s also by far the most popular politician in Parliament. The great thing about Sunak is unlike Boris and Starmer he’s not tarnished by the Brexit debate as the average voter has no idea which side he was on.
Boris is smart enough to know when it’s time to go, if he thought he wouldn’t win the next election he’d step aside. As a student of history his legacy is more important than his duty to serve as it was with May who had to be dragged out number 10.
On the other hand, his hero is Churchill WS. Who was not in a good state in his last term. Not Wilson H.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I agree with this in most part.
Priti Patel was right to say that people had the right to boo the gesture. She was wrong not to condemn that booing as both oafish and potentially racist in effect. I have increasing reservations about supporting a government that thinks she is a suitable person to be Home Secretary. This and the points made by @Cyclefree in her header this morning, even although I thought they were overstated, drive me to the conclusion that she does not engender British attitudes of tolerance, mutual respect and kindness. We need a better Home Secretary.
My views on the gesture itself have developed from some degree of skepticism and incredulity that this gesture reflecting American racial tensions and then police murder was thought to be relevant to our experience in the UK to an increasing degree of acceptance that a significant number of our ethnic minorities feel oppressed in this way and that their concerns are worthy of respect and proper consideration.
To be clear I would never have been so obnoxious as to boo this but I am now a lot more supportive of the gesture than I was 6 months ago.
That's probably where I am too with this - not often I agree with David L.
Wholesale Americanisation of our race relations seems a mistake but in many ways I do think the players have taken ownership of the knee gesture for themselves and if it reflects the abuse directed on social media then I can understand it. I wouldn't assume booing equals racism but a healthly scepticism towards the protagonists seems wise.
I am highly woke sceptical but the only time that I got really bothered about taking the knee was when the police did it. It just looked pathetic and that they were afraid of the mob.
It can also incite them.
Ever heard that advice that if you ever get stuck in a fight *never* go down? They might rearrange your face but you'll get out in one piece.
People think that if you're on the floor your attacker will sense your passivity and leave you alone; in fact, they kick you harder and repeatedly as they have a sort of contempt for you. Sometimes they kill you.
When the police do it a similar effect can result as the crowd absorb the euphoria of figures of authority submitting to them, and so it risks them then escalating and going on a rampage as they freely vent their passions.
The police (in uniform and whilst on duty) should never take the knee.
Boris is smart enough to know when it’s time to go, if he thought he wouldn’t win the next election he’d step aside. As a student of history his legacy is more important than his duty to serve as it was with May who had to be dragged out number 10.
Once Boris knows and is sure that all the blame for major Covid issues sits at Hancock's desk he will be off.
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
MaxPB likes to be very certain and confident about things - I don't agree with his outlook: I think there will probably be another wave, another variant and another lockdown, but at present the virus is under control by way of vaccination so the restrictions should be completely lifted. If not, we will have sleepwalked in to a biosurveillance state- a prospect which people seem too relaxed about. We shouldn't adopt a zero covid policy for fear of long covid, the social and psychological harm is too great. Even the need to self isolate for 10 or 14 days is very harmful, particularly in relation to children's education. All these restrictions need to go. If they go, then people are more likely to follow them if and when there is the need for another lockdown. Otherwise you end up with a situation where people just get fed up and say to hell with it all, a position which, on the basis of observation, many are currently at.
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
TBF, those who throw endless money around are usually quite popular while doing it.
'In the Lords committee, Sir Peter Hennessey, a former journalist said that if his editor has asked him to write a profile of Mr Drakeford he would refer to him as a "care worker of the union". [...] "It seems to me that like the probation officer you once were, you tried very hard to deal with the difficult teenager in Number 10 who won't return calls or respond to messages, you try to help where you can with the family north of the border and engaged in this endless row."'
Starmer is going to do just fine, especially with the Lib Dems making a come back he is going to be excellent for that situation
I admire your blind optimism but you were also adamant Labour were winning the past election. All the usual metrics to judge a future PM are terrible for Starmer. Let’s be honest if Labour had someone better he probably would have already faced a leadership challenge. When voters make their minds up it becomes very difficult. Hung Parliament is the best he can hope for.
Has there been enough discussion about the chaos at Wembley on Sunday? Or in deed some of the chaos that was present outside Wembley for the Denmark game.
Quite chilling. Interesting that he says England with the 'worst infection rate in the world'. I believe it was an Irish interviewer and an Italian interviewee but when you lose the comfort blanket of your 27 staunchest allies you can end up sounding pretty shrill and on your own
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
Let's hope so. Rishi Sunak would be almost impossible to beat at the next election if he's Tory leader.
The perfect play for the Tories if to get through COVID crisis, then shuffle off Boris. The public inquiry will mostly dump on Boris and Hancock handling and Sunak, other than eat out to help out (and actually i don't think that actually harmed him), has been seen to have a good pandemic.
They thought when Blair went Iraq etc would go with him. It didn't and I doubt it will leave 'Eat out to help out' Richi either. He was a Brexiteer supporter of Johnson. Hopefully that will be enough to see him off.
Brown would have easily won a GE if he had called it when he had chance...but then he bottled it, financial crash etc etc etc.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
Do those Conservatives who do not support taking the knee also support BOOING those taking the knee? I very much doubt most do.
That's the big danger for Johnson. In pandering to the base (an activity of which I know you are a huge fan) he's allowed himself to be cast in a bad light even for those in his base. This issue could have been closed down pre-tournament, but Patel's comments weren't corrected, and headbanger Tory MPs weren't disciplined.
I'd also note that 38% is a heck of a lot of Tories. Not saying at all that this issue will do it on its own, but Major only needed to lose around a quarter of voters in his 1992 triumph to go down in flames in 1997. Indeed, it's that 38% that Conservatives need to pander to most of all as they are the ones most likely to shop elsewhere for their political leaders.
This is what Cameron understood with his "hug a hoody" and "hug a huskie" messaging, the 0.7% of GDP stuff etc. None of that was about the base - the Tory base varies from agnostic to hostile on such things. It's about the Blair voters and soggy centre.
Good post. The base aren't going anywhere else, now post-Brexit.
They need to worry about me. An ex-Cons voter now thoroughly disaffected by the make up of the Party and is looking around to see what's on offer. So far SKS ain't it but I thought he had a good PMQs today and there will be some for whom a sustained good run by him will do much to sway their vote.
Did you vote Tory in 2019? If not then no, we don't need to worry about you
Yes me old mucker, I voted Tory in 2019.
Now, how can you help me...
I think you're a little bit like JackW, actually.
You're a core and loyal Conservative - you always vote that way, and even campaign that way at times - but adopt a more critical persona on here because you like to test your own thinking and challenge others too.
I understand that.
Prior to this (last) year I campaigned for nearly 20 years for the Cons. I resigned pre-Covid.
I appreciate your assessment and when I have a bit more energy (knacked after a long day) I will share some of my thinking further. There is much in what you say but it's not the whole picture.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I agree with this in most part.
Priti Patel was right to say that people had the right to boo the gesture. She was wrong not to condemn that booing as both oafish and potentially racist in effect. I have increasing reservations about supporting a government that thinks she is a suitable person to be Home Secretary. This and the points made by @Cyclefree in her header this morning, even although I thought they were overstated, drive me to the conclusion that she does not engender British attitudes of tolerance, mutual respect and kindness. We need a better Home Secretary.
My views on the gesture itself have developed from some degree of skepticism and incredulity that this gesture reflecting American racial tensions and then police murder was thought to be relevant to our experience in the UK to an increasing degree of acceptance that a significant number of our ethnic minorities feel oppressed in this way and that their concerns are worthy of respect and proper consideration.
To be clear I would never have been so obnoxious as to boo this but I am now a lot more supportive of the gesture than I was 6 months ago.
That's probably where I am too with this - not often I agree with David L.
Wholesale Americanisation of our race relations seems a mistake but in many ways I do think the players have taken ownership of the knee gesture for themselves and if it reflects the abuse directed on social media then I can understand it. I wouldn't assume booing equals racism but a healthly scepticism towards the protagonists seems wise.
I am highly woke sceptical but the only time that I got really bothered about taking the knee was when the police did it. It just looked pathetic and that they were afraid of the mob.
It can also incite them.
Ever heard that advice that if you ever get stuck in a fight *never* go down? They might rearrange your face but you'll get out in one piece.
People think that if you're on the floor your attacker will sense your passivity and leave you alone; in fact, they kick you harder and repeatedly as they have a sort of contempt for you. Sometimes they kill you.
When the police do it a similar effect can result as the crowd absorb the euphoria of figures of authority submitting to them, and so it risks them then escalating and going on a rampage as they freely vent their passions.
The police (in uniform and whilst on duty) should never take the knee.
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
TBF, those who throw endless money around are usually quite popular while doing it.
Until they have to stop, of course.
Exhibit A - Phillip Snowden
Exhibit B - Rab Butler
Exhibit C - Gordon Brown.
That's what I don't get. Unless he takes over as PM in the next few months, he'll be taking stuff away. And cutting spending or raising taxes, most likely both. I don't see how that makes him a good bet to be next leader. Let alone unbeatable as next PM.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
Do those Conservatives who do not support taking the knee also support BOOING those taking the knee? I very much doubt most do.
That's the big danger for Johnson. In pandering to the base (an activity of which I know you are a huge fan) he's allowed himself to be cast in a bad light even for those in his base. This issue could have been closed down pre-tournament, but Patel's comments weren't corrected, and headbanger Tory MPs weren't disciplined.
I'd also note that 38% is a heck of a lot of Tories. Not saying at all that this issue will do it on its own, but Major only needed to lose around a quarter of voters in his 1992 triumph to go down in flames in 1997. Indeed, it's that 38% that Conservatives need to pander to most of all as they are the ones most likely to shop elsewhere for their political leaders.
This is what Cameron understood with his "hug a hoody" and "hug a huskie" messaging, the 0.7% of GDP stuff etc. None of that was about the base - the Tory base varies from agnostic to hostile on such things. It's about the Blair voters and soggy centre.
Good post. The base aren't going anywhere else, now post-Brexit.
They need to worry about me. An ex-Cons voter now thoroughly disaffected by the make up of the Party and is looking around to see what's on offer. So far SKS ain't it but I thought he had a good PMQs today and there will be some for whom a sustained good run by him will do much to sway their vote.
Did you vote Tory in 2019? If not then no, we don't need to worry about you
Yes me old mucker, I voted Tory in 2019.
Now, how can you help me...
I think you're a little bit like JackW, actually.
You're a core and loyal Conservative - you always vote that way, and even campaign that way at times - but adopt a more critical persona on here because you like to test your own thinking and challenge others too.
I understand that.
Prior to this (last) year I campaigned for nearly 20 years for the Cons. I resigned pre-Covid.
I appreciate your assessment and when I have a bit more energy (knacked after a long day) I will share some of my thinking further. There is much in what you say but it's not the whole picture.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I'm really bored by The Knee, and view it is an irritating American import like Black Friday the genesis of which most of those doing it don't understand, but I think to some extent it's a self-correcting problem.
If it's associated with critical race theory (all too easy given that kneeling is a sign of submission) such that doing the gesture is implicitly a concession to concepts like "white privilege" within a intersectionality power dynamic, whilst at the same time statues are pulled down, and Marxists rattle on about "decolonisation", then it will be divisive and it's popularity will diminish.
However, if it becomes so widespread such that it simply means, "I don't like and stand against racism", then it will become trendy and non-contentious because it will become so mainstream it will cease to be "owned" by the Marxist Left, therefore no longer be controversial.
How the fuck does taking the knee make you a Marxist??
Did Marx himself take the knee? Did Lenin? Did Stalin?
I see we have had the usual Wednesday spike in cases to dash hopes of them peaking. I look forward to the usual suspects claiming next Monday that cases have levelled off in the mid 40k cases...
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
TBF, those who throw endless money around are usually quite popular while doing it.
Until they have to stop, of course.
Exhibit A - Phillip Snowden
Exhibit B - Rab Butler
Exhibit C - Gordon Brown.
That's what I don't get. Unless he takes over as PM in the next few months, he'll be taking stuff away. And cutting spending or raising taxes, most likely both. I don't see how that makes him a good bet to be next leader. Let alone unbeatable as next PM.
He might just take the American stated approach...it was a war, we are going to continue to borrow massively and worry about it in 10-15 years.
Not very conservative, but lots about this government that isn't very conservative.
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
I'm not afraid of long covid. We know f'all about it, and it seems like an odd fear to stop life over.
As I've said passim, I had long meningitis - not that many in the medical profession seem to recognise it. It was sh*t, but I mostly recovered. We cannot be afraid of our own shadows, and it does sound like it's being used as an excuse to bash the government.
Also, it needs to be weighed up against the sheer human cost of the lockdowns. Are the government getting it right? Time will tell, but possibly not. But shouting 'long covid!' and calling it a 'horror' does not strike me as a sensible approach.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I agree with this in most part.
Priti Patel was right to say that people had the right to boo the gesture. She was wrong not to condemn that booing as both oafish and potentially racist in effect. I have increasing reservations about supporting a government that thinks she is a suitable person to be Home Secretary. This and the points made by @Cyclefree in her header this morning, even although I thought they were overstated, drive me to the conclusion that she does not engender British attitudes of tolerance, mutual respect and kindness. We need a better Home Secretary.
My views on the gesture itself have developed from some degree of skepticism and incredulity that this gesture reflecting American racial tensions and then police murder was thought to be relevant to our experience in the UK to an increasing degree of acceptance that a significant number of our ethnic minorities feel oppressed in this way and that their concerns are worthy of respect and proper consideration.
To be clear I would never have been so obnoxious as to boo this but I am now a lot more supportive of the gesture than I was 6 months ago.
That's probably where I am too with this - not often I agree with David L.
Wholesale Americanisation of our race relations seems a mistake but in many ways I do think the players have taken ownership of the knee gesture for themselves and if it reflects the abuse directed on social media then I can understand it. I wouldn't assume booing equals racism but a healthly scepticism towards the protagonists seems wise.
I am highly woke sceptical but the only time that I got really bothered about taking the knee was when the police did it. It just looked pathetic and that they were afraid of the mob.
It can also incite them.
Ever heard that advice that if you ever get stuck in a fight *never* go down? They might rearrange your face but you'll get out in one piece.
People think that if you're on the floor your attacker will sense your passivity and leave you alone; in fact, they kick you harder and repeatedly as they have a sort of contempt for you. Sometimes they kill you.
When the police do it a similar effect can result as the crowd absorb the euphoria of figures of authority submitting to them, and so it risks them then escalating and going on a rampage as they freely vent their passions.
The police (in uniform and whilst on duty) should never take the knee.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
I struggle to see why any sensible politician wants to get involved in the debate.
I'm happy for England players to take the knee before matches. I'm happy if they don't. I'd like them to be able to make their minds up, individually or as a team, without politicians getting hysterical about it and anyone booing them.
Politicians can't always CHOOSE which debates to get involved in. You're going to get "do you condemn?" and "do you condone?" questions - and can't sidestep as it's "X refuses to condemn Y". If you're a leader, you're going to get MPs and Home Secretaries wading in, and need to decide how to respond.
There has been a debate over whether taking the knee should be replaced with a more "unifying" symbol (presumably a badge stitched on a sleeve with a nice slogan dreamt up in a clever ad agency). But that misses the point. Symbols aren't always meant to unify. Some of them are intended to prevent the politicians you mention (and others in society) from dodging the debate - they confront, force people to take sides, and require public debate. In that respect, taking a knee (whatever you think of it) has been enormously powerful.
I condone choosing to take the knee. I condone choosing not to take the knee. I condemn booing people for taking the knee.
Simple. (Maybe I'd be a terrible politician, but that's the position which would make me most likely to vote for someone, all else being equal).
I agree about the power of the gesture. All the deabte about it has certainly raised the profile of the issues.
I'm really bored by The Knee, and view it is an irritating American import like Black Friday the genesis of which most of those doing it don't understand, but I think to some extent it's a self-correcting problem.
If it's associated with critical race theory (all too easy given that kneeling is a sign of submission) such that doing the gesture is implicitly a concession to concepts like "white privilege" within a intersectionality power dynamic, whilst at the same time statues are pulled down, and Marxists rattle on about "decolonisation", then it will be divisive and it's popularity will diminish.
However, if it becomes so widespread such that it simply means, "I don't like and stand against racism", then it will become trendy and non-contentious because it will become so mainstream it will cease to be "owned" by the Marxist Left, therefore no longer be controversial.
How the fuck does taking the knee make you a Marxist??
Did Marx himself take the knee? Did Lenin? Did Stalin?
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
TBF, those who throw endless money around are usually quite popular while doing it.
Until they have to stop, of course.
Exhibit A - Phillip Snowden
Exhibit B - Rab Butler
Exhibit C - Gordon Brown.
That's what I don't get. Unless he takes over as PM in the next few months, he'll be taking stuff away. And cutting spending or raising taxes, most likely both. I don't see how that makes him a good bet to be next leader. Let alone unbeatable as next PM.
He might just take the American stated approach...it was a war, we are going to continue to borrow massively and worry about it in 10-15 years.
Not very conservative, but lots about this government that isn't very conservative.
Well maybe. However, we also have an inflation spike, and very disappointing growth figures last month. Labour and supply shortages. Whichever way he turns it ain't a pretty sight. Unimpeded largesse will be tough to navigate. And then there are the backbenchers. Most of whom came into politics for free markets and balanced budgets...
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid. The last gasp of the Zero Covid squad.
If vaccinations of the vulnerable are done and the NHS is at no risk of collapse and you still don't want to lift lockdown and dump masks because of "Long Covid" then what is your exit route from this?
Do we remain with lockdowns forever until we have Zero Covid? And then have more lockdowns forever to prevent it resparking?
I'm on record saying that I crave a return to normality so I'm certainly not one of the Zero Covid squad. There are two schools of thought - those who think lifting almost all restrictions in the middle of a big spike is Fucking Stupid, and those who insist that it is madness to have any concerns at all as pandemic over.
One side has the rest of the world. The other side is you, max and the government. Nor can we hide behind the claim that Britain uniquely is more vaccinated by anyone else. No longer true.
So no, we don't stay with "lockdowns forever". I don't anyone who is advocating that on here. What we needed to drop was the "no masks, no risk" bullshit. Which they have done.
Perfectly reasonable. But the PM (or Rishi) is on to something. If not now, when?
There will always be one more thing to consider. Look at the vulnerable. Very tricky question. But when will they be deemed to be safe out and about? When we have z*r* Covid?
Then children. Both under and over 12, which has become the demarcation point. Where a decision has yet to be made.
The risk overall is now far lower than it was. Covid is not the flu but for millions of people out is now just like the flu. For the vulnerable actually it is also like the flu in that they don't want to get it.
Starmer may be right that taking the knee is fully supported on his side of the political divide, 78% of Labour voters back it. Personally I believe it is a matter of personal choice.
Do those Conservatives who do not support taking the knee also support BOOING those taking the knee? I very much doubt most do.
That's the big danger for Johnson. In pandering to the base (an activity of which I know you are a huge fan) he's allowed himself to be cast in a bad light even for those in his base. This issue could have been closed down pre-tournament, but Patel's comments weren't corrected, and headbanger Tory MPs weren't disciplined.
I'd also note that 38% is a heck of a lot of Tories. Not saying at all that this issue will do it on its own, but Major only needed to lose around a quarter of voters in his 1992 triumph to go down in flames in 1997. Indeed, it's that 38% that Conservatives need to pander to most of all as they are the ones most likely to shop elsewhere for their political leaders.
This is what Cameron understood with his "hug a hoody" and "hug a huskie" messaging, the 0.7% of GDP stuff etc. None of that was about the base - the Tory base varies from agnostic to hostile on such things. It's about the Blair voters and soggy centre.
Good post. The base aren't going anywhere else, now post-Brexit.
They need to worry about me. An ex-Cons voter now thoroughly disaffected by the make up of the Party and is looking around to see what's on offer. So far SKS ain't it but I thought he had a good PMQs today and there will be some for whom a sustained good run by him will do much to sway their vote.
Did you vote Tory in 2019? If not then no, we don't need to worry about you
Yes me old mucker, I voted Tory in 2019.
Now, how can you help me...
I think you're a little bit like JackW, actually.
You're a core and loyal Conservative - you always vote that way, and even campaign that way at times - but adopt a more critical persona on here because you like to test your own thinking and challenge others too.
I understand that.
Prior to this (last) year I campaigned for nearly 20 years for the Cons. I resigned pre-Covid.
I appreciate your assessment and when I have a bit more energy (knacked after a long day) I will share some of my thinking further. There is much in what you say but it's not the whole picture.
Not sure what Sunak has done to earn the invincible tag? AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM. Can anyone enlighten me further?
TBF, those who throw endless money around are usually quite popular while doing it.
Until they have to stop, of course.
Exhibit A - Phillip Snowden
Exhibit B - Rab Butler
Exhibit C - Gordon Brown.
That's what I don't get. Unless he takes over as PM in the next few months, he'll be taking stuff away. And cutting spending or raising taxes, most likely both. I don't see how that makes him a good bet to be next leader. Let alone unbeatable as next PM.
And there are two other challenges. First, the next phase of austerity will have to hit Conservative supporters- there's no financial slack anywhere else. And whilst our North Wales Correspondent might OK with that, I'm happy to wager a shiny sixpence that a lot of retired people won't be. Second, for all his talents, a hedge fund squillionaire is not the right man to front an austerity campaign. Osborne barely got away with it, and he didn't look he was on work experience before going back to start his A Levels.
9 out of Top Ten for NE now. Will be spending my day travelling into and about the Toon by public transport. Will be interesting to see whether this has had an impact on folk out and about and mask prevalence. Will report back tomorrow.
The tory tactics up to and through freedom day have been quite interesting. Lifting the mask mandate in particular. Unexpectedly bold.
Who primarily is being hampered by covid restrictions now after labour's reaction on masks? and who will be hit by them if passports for nightclubs and crowded indoor venues come in for the autumn in response to case rises?
Is it
A. Metropolitan labour voters. or
B. Metropolitan labour voters.
It really is rather beautiful. And labour have taken the bait superbly.
Now. I ask you, did Boris Johnson think that up all by himself?
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
Long Covid. The last gasp of the Zero Covid squad.
If vaccinations of the vulnerable are done and the NHS is at no risk of collapse and you still don't want to lift lockdown and dump masks because of "Long Covid" then what is your exit route from this?
Do we remain with lockdowns forever until we have Zero Covid? And then have more lockdowns forever to prevent it resparking?
I'm on record saying that I crave a return to normality so I'm certainly not one of the Zero Covid squad. There are two schools of thought - those who think lifting almost all restrictions in the middle of a big spike is Fucking Stupid, and those who insist that it is madness to have any concerns at all as pandemic over.
One side has the rest of the world. The other side is you, max and the government. Nor can we hide behind the claim that Britain uniquely is more vaccinated by anyone else. No longer true.
So no, we don't stay with "lockdowns forever". I don't anyone who is advocating that on here. What we needed to drop was the "no masks, no risk" bullshit. Which they have done.
Its easy to claim you want a return to normality, while refusing a return to normality.
So if you want to maintain mask mandates by force of law, then how do you plan that to be removed or is that going to stay forever? What do you want to actually be normalised now that wasn't normalised a week ago?
As for Britain not being uniquely more vaccinated - where are you getting your data from? Besides Israel who have always been ahead and we're catching up with fast, who is more vaccinated than Britain? 🤔 Canada is catching up fast, but they're not here yet.
The tory tactics up to and through freedom day have been quite interesting. Lifting the mask mandate in particular. Unexpectedly bold.
Who primarily is being hampered by covid restrictions now after labour's reaction on masks? and who will be hit by them if passports for nightclubs and crowded indoor venues come in for the autumn in response to case rises?
Is it
A. Metropolitan labour voters. or
B. Metropolitan labour voters.
It really is rather beautiful. And labour have taken the bait superbly.
Now. I ask you, did Boris Johnson think that up all by himself?
You are assuming masks are unpopular. They aren't.
I see we have had the usual Wednesday spike in cases to dash hopes of them peaking. I look forward to the usual suspects claiming next Monday that cases have levelled off in the mid 40k cases...
I've already done the passive aggressive micky taking at the start of the thread, you are wayyyyyy too late.
9 out of Top Ten for NE now. Will be spending my day travelling into and about the Toon by public transport. Will be interesting to see whether this has had an impact on folk out and about and mask prevalence. Will report back tomorrow.
Interestingly, my Trust has been handing out FFP3 masks for staff to wear. I think the added cost will be repaid by far fewer staff absences, and better protection from mask refusing patients and relatives. Seems a good pragmatic response for staff. Patients are going to be the canaries in the coalmine, I suppose.
The tory tactics up to and through freedom day have been quite interesting. Lifting the mask mandate in particular. Unexpectedly bold.
Who primarily is being hampered by covid restrictions now after labour's reaction on masks? and who will be hit by them if passports for nightclubs and crowded indoor venues come in for the autumn in response to case rises?
Is it
A. Metropolitan labour voters. or
B. Metropolitan labour voters.
It really is rather beautiful. And labour have taken the bait superbly.
Now. I ask you, did Boris Johnson think that up all by himself?
You are assuming masks are unpopular. They aren't.
Yes well masks may or may not be popular, but the atmosphere on transport as people and staff struggle with refuseniks, drunks late at night, dodgy lanyard wearers, attention seekers and assorted others will be about as popular as a f*rt in a space suit.
I don;t rule out industrial action.
And it will all be Khan's fault. And Burnham's. In their own electoral back yards.
It will be fascinating to see how Sadiq Khan's edict on continued mask wearing on the Underground is followed and enforced from next week.
In my part of town, I'd say non-compliance is about 15% - I expect that to rise.
TFL have 400 enforcement officers whose task will be to enforce this ruling which has been implemented as part of the "conditions of carriage". In truth, expecting everyone to wear a mask is up there with expecting everyone to pay a fare - fare evasion is endemic and non-compliance with mask wearing will be.
It’s no wonder why Labour are miles behind in the polls given their views on trans rights, the knee and all the stuff that doesn’t interest the rump of voters. Boris Johnson shouldnt be the only adult in the room but in the past year he clearly is.
I get the feeling the only adult in the room isn't Boris Johnson, it is Rishi Sunak. After his victory over aid spending, he is clearly a man with a plan.
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
Next step: Deal with the triple lock.
And the very best of British luck to you there, sir....
Two steps to deal with it, without abolishing the triple lock:
Step 1: We need to deal with the way that earnings etc are measured to take into account the artificial rise this year. Everyone knows that wages haven't risen 8% this year so a fair measure should be achievable.
Step 2: We need inflation. If inflation is on the floor then 2.5% minimum means there's real pensions growth. If there's 3% inflation then the 2.5% minimum is rendered moot and there's no real pensions growth, unless wages are growing in which case it ought to be affordable.
FWIW I did speak to someone conducting polls and focus groups, they said the public have started getting scared again.
They haven't been this scared since February, when the vaccine rollout was going full pelt.
Over the last year or so you could match Boris Johnson's and government popularity to how scared the public felt.
It's time to get rid of daily reporting of statistics. Roll it up into a weekly ONS release. It no longer serves any purpose other than to make people fearful for no reason. At the same point in the last wave we had 20k already in hospital and an average of around 550 deaths per day compared to about 25.
The fear is now irrational for anyone who's had both jabs which is 35m people and rising.
I don't think the fear is irrational. Its probably innumerate but we are used to that. The number of people in hospital shows that if you have a very small percentage that are not fully protected by the vaccines and then multiply by it very large number like 35m you get a significant number of hospital patients. The risk in the individual case is small but not non existent.
It's closest to a fear of flying which is actually a fear of not being in control. Virtually no one dies in plane crashes and virtually no one dies of COVID after being double jabbed. The fear is that we're not in control of the plane just as we're not in control of the virus. Travelling by road is significantly riskier than flying, but very few people are scared of driving because there's some level of control over the car.
That's where we're currently at and by marking COVID out as something special despite it now being just like any other virtual disease for the double jabbed is a driver of the fear.
Your chances of dying of, as opposed to with, Covid are vanishingly small once double vaxxed but much more material numbers are needing hospital treatment and a lot of them will have long covid symptons for some time to come.
We are paying the price of slow vaccination rates in May, June and now July as well. Not enough of us are double vaxxed.
Exactly. I'm now double jabbed. I am not very likely to die of Covid now. TBH i wasn't that likely to die of it before I was jabbed. Its Long Covid that is the true horror - an indeterminate condition that can be utterly crippling with no way out that we know of.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
I'm not afraid of long covid. We know f'all about it, and it seems like an odd fear to stop life over.
As I've said passim, I had long meningitis - not that many in the medical profession seem to recognise it. It was sh*t, but I mostly recovered. We cannot be afraid of our own shadows, and it does sound like it's being used as an excuse to bash the government.
Also, it needs to be weighed up against the sheer human cost of the lockdowns. Are the government getting it right? Time will tell, but possibly not. But shouting 'long covid!' and calling it a 'horror' does not strike me as a sensible approach.
You may not be afraid. Our household harbours a certain amount of concern (one of us is a shielder) but we're not going to let the Plague rule our lives insofar as that's possible, either. But I'll wager that an enormous number of people are absolutely bricking it. You hear it and you see it and you read about it every day now. The epidemic of children with eating disorders, anxiety-depression, extreme germ phobia - and the consequent reported collapse of child and adolescent mental health services, under the weight of demand - is a disaster on its own, without even considering the state of mind of the adult population.
One of my major concerns about Covid is that a substantial fraction of the population has been so scarred by the disease and all the experiences that have surrounded it that, regardless of the level of vaccination or the direction of the statistics, they'll keep on being afraid and may, consequently, never feel safe ever again. What on Earth do we do about that?
It will be fascinating to see how Sadiq Khan's edict on continued mask wearing on the Underground is followed and enforced from next week.
In my part of town, I'd say non-compliance is about 15% - I expect that to rise.
TFL have 400 enforcement officers whose task will be to enforce this ruling which has been implemented as part of the "conditions of carriage". In truth, expecting everyone to wear a mask is up there with expecting everyone to pay a fare - fare evasion is endemic and non-compliance with mask wearing will be.
How do they propose to enforce it, given you can download an exemption certificate from the government’s own website?
Some people are just dumb.
Sadiq Khan trying to extend his authority over London commuter lines will surely end badly as well.
Comments
A smaller percentage off much larger case numbers surely means you have as much chance of getting ill now as you did a few months back when case numbers were a trickle.
Posting "The fear is now irrational" is what is irrational.
No. Have you?
Apart from the lease running out (it's been 20 years) and the ability to get workers to resign rather than make them redundant, I don't see any justification for it. Beyond Barclays being the cheapskates that they are renowned as being.
If vaccinations of the vulnerable are done and the NHS is at no risk of collapse and you still don't want to lift lockdown and dump masks because of "Long Covid" then what is your exit route from this?
Do we remain with lockdowns forever until we have Zero Covid? And then have more lockdowns forever to prevent it resparking?
(And 'good enough for now' as Biden was remarked upon)
Fine evening here in downtown east London. Newham now has 56% first vaccination and 35.5% with both vaccinations so it progresses but slowly.
Talking to people in my cosy middle-class circle of work colleagues, it's clear there's a lot of caution still out here even among those doubly vaccinated. The assumption is almost you are as vulnerable to the virus now as before vaccination. The statistical evidence is being overridden by anecdotal and media reports of doubly vaccinated people getting ill.
I don't want the virus - no one does - and it's clear a lot of people, as is their right, are quite risk-averse when it comes to things like this.
Calling them "scared" or "frightened" isn't helpful - we now have the notion some statistics shouldn't be published. I didn't realise the antidote to fear is ignorance ad if that's where we now are, we are in a very dark place.
I posed the question - "should I wear a mask in a train carriage if I am the only passenger in that carriage?". Irrespective of the conditions of carriage, the majority view was I should - apparently I could be breathing virus droplets all over the carriage and even if someone got on at the other end of the carriage, I should wear a mask.
I struggled with that in truth - yes, in a crowded Underground train, I see the argument but to sit, alone, in a railway carriage and have to wear a mask having been doubly vaccinated.
That's where we are - the Prime Minister has abdicated leadership in favour of granting us all "personal responsibility" I'm not wholly against it - there will be a minority (5-10%) who are entirely self-centred and do whatever they want irrespective - but the notion we should, as responsible individuals, be able to be as risk-averse as we please isn't unattractive but it's not a risk-free option especially if sectors like hospitality aspire to the "good old days".
I'll be honest - I quite like reduced crowd sizes because it makes for a more attractive experience. 10,000 on a Saturday night at Lingfield is awful - 4,000 would be pleasant. The problem is it's all about money and the bottom line - capitalism crams people in to racecourses and tube trains.
Mrs Stodge is being forced (her word) back to the office two days a week from next week. I'm no fan of any form of compulsion in these matters - we should have mature organisational cultures which can function whether individuals are in an office environment or not. I've never and would never advocate compulsory home working - the hybrid approach seems to be gaining traction in many organisations and there needs to be some far more original thinking about the nature of work.
The evidence among rhe unvaccinated is long covid isn't related to severity that you suffer covid. Are there actually been any studies that have looked at if long covid is a thing in fully vaccinated individuals and if so is it again is severity is reduced etc.
Independent SAGE love to band about long covid as the bogeyman, it isn't as prevelent as they claim according to Tim Spector, its low single digits. Independent SAGE play fast and loose, literally anything still not 100%, long COVID. It still definitely effects a good number of people.
And i read the ONS survey about reinfection, where people in the vast vast majority suffer very mild illness., But not seen anything about long covid in relation to vaccinated patients.
Maybe there is a cohort of frightened Patricias cowering at home with only the apocalyptic tones of the BBC for company. But the real world doesn't seem any quieter without them.
You're a core and loyal Conservative - you always vote that way, and even campaign that way at times - but adopt a more critical persona on here because you like to test your own thinking and challenge others too.
I understand that.
But he was on a sticky wicket in today's PMQ's as so many of his MPs have taken the wrong side in a culture war and he knows it. Dickheads like HYUFD's MP counterpart Elphicke and others really gave Starmer an open goal today and Boris knew it.
For all that Teesside is supposed to be super sexy excitement land now that it had Ben Houchen International Airport, it is still shedding lots of jobs.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/texas-abortion-law-10000-bounty-1193591/amp/
I reckon it is a pretty good plan at that.
How will he manage on just £60 million a year...have to shop at Lidl now. I believe his previous wages accounted for nearly half the total Barcelona first team wage bill.
Still a billion in the hole, economics of the mad house.
If it's associated with critical race theory (all too easy given that kneeling is a sign of submission) such that doing the gesture is implicitly a concession to concepts like "white privilege" within a intersectionality power dynamic, whilst at the same time statues are pulled down,
and Marxists rattle on about "decolonisation", then it will be divisive and it's popularity will diminish.
However, if it becomes so widespread such that it simply means, "I don't like and stand against racism", then it will become trendy and non-contentious because it will become so mainstream it will cease to be "owned" by the Marxist Left, therefore no longer be controversial.
The Sunderland office has a 5 year waiting list for a car parking space and we essentially have to park near by and get a shuttle bus to work.
40% of your time needs to be in the office (which explains why a full office in Sunderland suddenly has space for 1000 extra workers.
- New cases: 26,390
- Average: 20,497 (+1,287)
- In hospital: 4,467 (+284)
- In ICU: 798 (+49)
- New deaths: 10
One side has the rest of the world. The other side is you, max and the government. Nor can we hide behind the claim that Britain uniquely is more vaccinated by anyone else. No longer true.
So no, we don't stay with "lockdowns forever". I don't anyone who is advocating that on here. What we needed to drop was the "no masks, no risk" bullshit. Which they have done.
Apparently the head of La Liga has said to Barcelona and Real Madrid enough is enough, you need to get your house in order.
There was talk of some funny business of paying Messi in the future in order to get his wages off the books for the forthcoming years.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/30/treasury-rejects-theory-eat-out-to-help-out-caused-rise-in-covid
But who knows?
Ever heard that advice that if you ever get stuck in a fight *never* go down? They might rearrange your face but you'll get out in one piece.
People think that if you're on the floor your attacker will sense your passivity and leave you alone; in fact, they kick you harder and repeatedly as they have a sort of contempt for you. Sometimes they kill you.
When the police do it a similar effect can result as the crowd absorb the euphoria of figures of authority submitting to them, and so it risks them then escalating and going on a rampage as they freely vent their passions.
The police (in uniform and whilst on duty) should never take the knee.
AIUI he's hosed a lot of cash around while tipping the wink that he's more anti-lockdown than the PM.
Can anyone enlighten me further?
Until they have to stop, of course.
Exhibit A - Phillip Snowden
Exhibit B - Rab Butler
Exhibit C - Gordon Brown.
Mr Drakeford of the superhero-underpants outside his suit trousers has been commenting on the State of the Union.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-mark-drakeford-confrontational-21051473
'In the Lords committee, Sir Peter Hennessey, a former journalist said that if his editor has asked him to write a profile of Mr Drakeford he would refer to him as a "care worker of the union". [...] "It seems to me that like the probation officer you once were, you tried very hard to deal with the difficult teenager in Number 10 who won't return calls or respond to messages, you try to help where you can with the family north of the border and engaged in this endless row."'
I appreciate your assessment and when I have a bit more energy (knacked after a long day) I will share some of my thinking further. There is much in what you say but it's not the whole picture.
I don't see how that makes him a good bet to be next leader. Let alone unbeatable as next PM.
Did Marx himself take the knee? Did Lenin? Did Stalin?
FFS!
Not very conservative, but lots about this government that isn't very conservative.
As I've said passim, I had long meningitis - not that many in the medical profession seem to recognise it. It was sh*t, but I mostly recovered. We cannot be afraid of our own shadows, and it does sound like it's being used as an excuse to bash the government.
Also, it needs to be weighed up against the sheer human cost of the lockdowns. Are the government getting it right? Time will tell, but possibly not. But shouting 'long covid!' and calling it a 'horror' does not strike me as a sensible approach.
Lots of evidence to support it too.
Whichever way he turns it ain't a pretty sight.
Unimpeded largesse will be tough to navigate. And then there are the backbenchers. Most of whom came into politics for free markets and balanced budgets...
There will always be one more thing to consider. Look at the vulnerable. Very tricky question. But when will they be deemed to be safe out and about? When we have z*r* Covid?
Then children. Both under and over 12, which has become the demarcation point. Where a decision has yet to be made.
The risk overall is now far lower than it was. Covid is not the flu but for millions of people out is now just like the flu. For the vulnerable actually it is also like the flu in that they don't want to get it.
So if not now, when?
First, the next phase of austerity will have to hit Conservative supporters- there's no financial slack anywhere else. And whilst our North Wales Correspondent might OK with that, I'm happy to wager a shiny sixpence that a lot of retired people won't be.
Second, for all his talents, a hedge fund squillionaire is not the right man to front an austerity campaign. Osborne barely got away with it, and he didn't look he was on work experience before going back to start his A Levels.
Will be interesting to see whether this has had an impact on folk out and about and mask prevalence.
Will report back tomorrow.
The tory tactics up to and through freedom day have been quite interesting. Lifting the mask mandate in particular. Unexpectedly bold.
Who primarily is being hampered by covid restrictions now after labour's reaction on masks? and who will be hit by them if passports for nightclubs and crowded indoor venues come in for the autumn in response to case rises?
Is it
A. Metropolitan labour voters. or
B. Metropolitan labour voters.
It really is rather beautiful. And labour have taken the bait superbly.
Now. I ask you, did Boris Johnson think that up all by himself?
So if you want to maintain mask mandates by force of law, then how do you plan that to be removed or is that going to stay forever? What do you want to actually be normalised now that wasn't normalised a week ago?
As for Britain not being uniquely more vaccinated - where are you getting your data from? Besides Israel who have always been ahead and we're catching up with fast, who is more vaccinated than Britain? 🤔 Canada is catching up fast, but they're not here yet.
They aren't.
I don;t rule out industrial action.
And it will all be Khan's fault. And Burnham's. In their own electoral back yards.
It really is very good.
In my part of town, I'd say non-compliance is about 15% - I expect that to rise.
TFL have 400 enforcement officers whose task will be to enforce this ruling which has been implemented as part of the "conditions of carriage". In truth, expecting everyone to wear a mask is up there with expecting everyone to pay a fare - fare evasion is endemic and non-compliance with mask wearing will be.
Step 1: We need to deal with the way that earnings etc are measured to take into account the artificial rise this year. Everyone knows that wages haven't risen 8% this year so a fair measure should be achievable.
Step 2: We need inflation. If inflation is on the floor then 2.5% minimum means there's real pensions growth. If there's 3% inflation then the 2.5% minimum is rendered moot and there's no real pensions growth, unless wages are growing in which case it ought to be affordable.
One of my major concerns about Covid is that a substantial fraction of the population has been so scarred by the disease and all the experiences that have surrounded it that, regardless of the level of vaccination or the direction of the statistics, they'll keep on being afraid and may, consequently, never feel safe ever again. What on Earth do we do about that?
Some people are just dumb.
Sadiq Khan trying to extend his authority over London commuter lines will surely end badly as well.