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If Gareth Southgate was a party leader his ratings would ensure his party won a landslide – politica

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else slightly nervous for Richard Branson?

    Stream goes live in 5 minutes.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=RTpWYWIfP7Y

    Half a million viewers waiting.

    He’s either going to make history as the first man to privately send himself into space...
    He isn't going into space. However he markets his decade late white elephant it isn't going high enough to be in space.
    Ok Victor.

    No need to be miserable. The US has long defined 80km as the boundary for astronaut wings.
    No, AIUI the USAF defined it as 80km so their X15 pilots could get astronaut wings. NASA used 100km unto about 2005, when they changed it to 80km.

    So this whole argument is because the USAF wanted to get 'astronauts' in the 1960s. A blooming good reason to stick to 100km IMO.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited July 2021
    England fans at Wembley dancing on fireworks looks like a war scene ….. https://t.co/9WJVIkSS2m

    I have a feeling these people won't be enacting their personal responsibility to continue to be sensible and use caution in a week's time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    edited July 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Wow, the Captain of Branson’s rocket ship has 140 different aircraft types in his logbook!

    Is it the Scotsman today?

    140's good, but it's not Eric 'Winkle' Brown good. ;)

    edit: Yep, it's David MacKay. I don't know if it's been mentioned downthread yet, but the pilot of the rocketplane is a Scotsman.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mackay_(pilot)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Whatever the result, it is going to explode tonight

    ‘Midday at Wembley Stadium...fans on top of busses, clearly pacing themselves eight hours before kickoff #ENGITA #England’

    https://twitter.com/ewither/status/1414216397371084803?s=21

    Violence if we lose, good natured violence if we win

    And plenty of COVID to go around....
    I really do hope not - but not much hope. That lot looks as if it will make the Rangers fans in Glasgow and the Scots Euro fans look like a kindergarten crocodile in Morningside. And look what happened in Glasgow and Edinburgh pox wise.
    BBC seem to have stopped their ‘Scotland is Europe’s Covid Hotspot’ catastrophising, though haven’t informed us which country is now Europe’s Covid hotspot. An oversight soon to be sorted out I’m sure.
    Newcastle and Middlesborough?
    South Shields 1203 cases per 100,000/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Did Branson design their uniforms? Fabulous... :o

    Bering escorted by long-haired ladies in jumpsuits - impossible not to recall 007's baddies.
    PS Of course he would be - they're going in to a rocket/plane, sorry. But there's something about the whole Gestalt.
    Lots of footage of Mr B gazing into space, with mum, etc.

    AJ not biting.

    Memories of Virgin Rail launches ...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    Anybody would think the global pandemic had ended?

    It has in this country. We're not in a pandemic.

    Taking a hell of a time for people to wake up to the fact.
    Oh, zero infections? I missed that.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    Funny thing is that so many migrants (legal and illegal) head for racist England rather than its neighbours.
    TBF, it’s not easy to get to Ireland illegally and bloody difficult to get to Scotland legally or illegally without going through England.

    Meanwhile, Kent is literally within swimming distance of France.

    This is of course one reason why the Little Scotlander vision of splitting themselves off from England and putting a massive border apparatus in place would be problematic.
    I think NOS is just not very bright, he obviously never majored in geography and seems to know as much about coastline/ports as Raab.
    Or indeed, those people who say Scotland would find trade with the EU easy as an independent nation.
    As an independent country we could have our own ports and trade routes rather than being forced to use or despotic tyrant masters ports.
    Scotland's ports have been underfunded and neglected to the point that their total container traffic in teu is only equal to that of Rekyavik
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else slightly nervous for Richard Branson?

    Live stream goes live in 5 minutes.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=RTpWYWIfP7Y

    He’s either going to make history as the first man to privately send himself into space...
    Thanks!!

    This seems to work better?
    #
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KI2_cpR9Ek
    It is on Aljazeera as well, only news programme that is not talking about England.
    Even at the women's 20 20 they are talking about it..or should I say were...
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    I wonder how many on P B will actually watch it....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    31,772....26..... admissions don't seem to have been updated (might be my computer caching).

    Good news because it continues the trend of no major increase in numbers.

    6th July: 31,998
    7th July: 32,193
    8th July: 35,518
    9th July: 32,367

    And now:
    10th July: 31,772
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    I wonder how many on P B will actually watch it....

    The rocket?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    Andy_JS said:

    31,772....26..... admissions don't seem to have been updated (might be my computer caching).

    Good news because it continues the trend of no major increase in numbers.

    6th July: 31,998
    7th July: 32,193
    8th July: 35,518
    9th July: 32,367

    And now:
    10th July: 31,772
    In a week's time however.......hides eyes.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    Seriously? Such a law?
    He is being even thicker than usual. The law is to make it illegal to assist migrants through trafficking - of course he knows that really - the midgies have obviously got to him today.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    RNLI vows to continue sea rescues despite prison fears for picking up migrants https://on.ft.com/3r0HUQF

    Shame on the Home Secretary for trying to make it illegal
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    felix said:

    The law is to make it illegal to assist migrants through trafficking

    That's the existing law.

    The new law makes it illegal to assist, at all.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    Andy_JS said:

    31,772....26..... admissions don't seem to have been updated (might be my computer caching).

    Good news because it continues the trend of no major increase in numbers.

    6th July: 31,998
    7th July: 32,193
    8th July: 35,518
    9th July: 32,367

    And now:
    10th July: 31,772
    My local quadratic curve fitting, using today's data shows cases peaking around now at around 32,500.

    Daily admissions and deaths peak at end July at around 1,460 and 70 respectively.

    Red shows predicted peaks, yellows shows latest actual data.


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    felix said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    Seriously? Such a law?
    He is being even thicker than usual. The law is to make it illegal to assist migrants through trafficking - of course he knows that really - the midgies have obviously got to him today.
    RNLI seem to be worried though IU can't read this.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,605
    Andy_JS said:

    They have really cocked up the masks. How does this keep happening

    The policy hasn't changed. It's still up to people to make their own decisions, based on guidance. Government ministers are saying it's probably sensible to wear them on crowded trains, but if you're the only person in a carriage you probably don't need to wear one.
    People being able to make their own decisions is too difficult a concept for some PBers.

    What they want is for government to make all the decisions of their behalf.

    The same PBers also never stop criticising the government for its decisions.

    'The government is crap but I want it to tell me what to do' mentality.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    I wonder how many on P B will actually watch it....

    Branson into Space? Its on!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Here goes - 2 mins away!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,323

    Sandpit said:

    Wow, the Captain of Branson’s rocket ship has 140 different aircraft types in his logbook!

    Is it the Scotsman today?

    140's good, but it's not Eric 'Winkle' Brown good. ;)

    edit: Yep, it's David MacKay. I don't know if it's been mentioned downthread yet, but the pilot of the rocketplane is a Scotsman.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mackay_(pilot)
    Don't you will drive the frothers crazy
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    Netherlands COVID update: New cases up 659% from last week

    - New cases: 9,398
    - Average: 5,670 (+1,166)
    - In hospital: 205 (-1)
    - In ICU: 82 (-4)
    - New deaths: 0
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    Bottles thrown as Leicester Square, London, becomes unofficial ‘fan zone’ for thousands of England fans. #ENGITA #EnglandvsItaly #England #ENG #EURO2020 https://t.co/NdvaX6IxIF

    It will get ugly if England lose.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    He's off!
  • Bottles thrown as Leicester Square, London, becomes unofficial ‘fan zone’ for thousands of England fans. #ENGITA #EnglandvsItaly #England #ENG #EURO2020 https://t.co/NdvaX6IxIF

    It will get ugly if England lose.

    Just totally puts me off I have to say. I don't have any interest in joining in with this
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
    Yes, here it is -

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/07/priti-patel-making-it-illegal-uk-rescue-asylum-seekers

    The new law 'does not apply to “anything done by a person acting on behalf of an organisation which a) aims to assist asylum seekers, and b) does not charge for its services”, which means that general search and rescue services that don't have an explicit mandate to assist asylum seekers could face prosecution.'
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    First bit done, now to come back down again!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Carnyx said:

    I wonder how many on P B will actually watch it....

    The rocket?
    No, the football... rocket is interesting... football ugh.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    This broadcast is a bit GB News in quality....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    1. It is going to be illegal to rescue migrants unless certain conditions x.
    2. That certain x does not apply to the RNLI etc.
    3. That puts RNLI volunteers and staff at risk.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
    No - you are twisting a story to play into your narrative and to add to it you highlight children

    You disgust me
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    PS I am a RNLI supporter too!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    Neither of us have said that. We've pointed to the law which makes your son a criminal if he rescues a drowning child who then claims asylum.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else

    A number of extremely clever lawyers have been puzzling over why the new immigration bill seems to criminalise organisations like the RNLI who might rescue asylum seekers at sea, when the Home Office claims it doesn't want to do that. There's a simple but awful explanation. 🧵 https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413848628247027715
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208



    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?

    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    There was a comment on these pages a few days ago describing the RNLI rescuing migrants as "suboptimal" for their reputation.

    Not massively keen on the pile-on on @RochdalePioneers, who is a good sort, if slightly tending to the glass-empty persuasion.

    It looks as if rescue at sea was an oversight in a bill that is in any case nasty and a disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888241145720838
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
    No - you are twisting a story to play into your narrative and to add to it you highlight children

    You disgust me
    You could just relax a little, and perhaps even apologise.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    No - you are twisting a story to play into your narrative and to add to it you highlight children

    You disgust me

    The *RNLI* are "twisting" the story as their volunteers like your brave son face arrest prosecution and jail for doing their jobs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    FF43 said:



    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?

    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    There was a comment on these pages a few days ago describing the RNLI rescuing migrants as "suboptimal" for their reputation.

    Not massively keen on the pile-on on @RochdalePioneers, who is a good sort, if slightly tending to the glass-empty persuasion.

    It looks as if rescue at sea was an oversight in a bill that is in any case nasty and a disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888241145720838
    I see 'Flashman's Ghost' is vigorously defending HMG on thatr thread.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    She a much better glider than the old Shuttle!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
    Come now, we ARE ON YOUR SON'S SIDE!!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
  • Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
    No - you are twisting a story to play into your narrative and to add to it you highlight children

    You disgust me
    You could just relax a little, and perhaps even apologise.
    He won't, he tells other people what to do and what to think because he's above any form of criticism
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    FF43 said:



    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?

    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    There was a comment on these pages a few days ago describing the RNLI rescuing migrants as "suboptimal" for their reputation.

    Not massively keen on the pile-on on @RochdalePioneers, who is a good sort, if slightly tending to the glass-empty persuasion.

    It looks as if rescue at sea was an oversight in a bill that is in any case nasty and a disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888241145720838
    Naah, the pile-on is brilliant! Big G is disgusted in me attacking his brave son by pointing to how absurd the bill which he supports is in criminalising him.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    FF43 said:



    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?

    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    There was a comment on these pages a few days ago describing the RNLI rescuing migrants as "suboptimal" for their reputation.

    Not massively keen on the pile-on on @RochdalePioneers, who is a good sort, if slightly tending to the glass-empty persuasion.

    It looks as if rescue at sea was an oversight in a bill that is in any case nasty and a disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888241145720838
    Worth posting this comment as well https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888242596913155

    But, like a Freudian slip, the oversight is revealing. It reveals a tendency to reach for the criminal law while failing properly to think through what the proposed offence (here, of helping asylum seekers reach the UK) should actually catch.


    So not so much an oversight, more planned without thought.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Sandpit said:

    She a much better glider than the old Shuttle!

    A lot smaller - scaling must be part of it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,323
    FF43 said:



    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?

    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    There was a comment on these pages a few days ago describing the RNLI rescuing migrants as "suboptimal" for their reputation.

    Not massively keen on the pile-on on @RochdalePioneers, who is a good sort, if slightly tending to the glass-empty persuasion.

    It looks as if rescue at sea was an oversight in a bill that is in any case nasty and a disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888241145720838
    Agree Rochdale is perfectly right and Big G has lost the plot.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
    Lol. I am quoting from the bill as published. Its a shit bill. Published in malice. To make bigots happy. By hoping that RNLI volunteers like your son stop pulling drowning migrants out of the channel.

    You support it of course. No wonder you are do angry.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    eek said:

    FF43 said:



    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?

    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    There was a comment on these pages a few days ago describing the RNLI rescuing migrants as "suboptimal" for their reputation.

    Not massively keen on the pile-on on @RochdalePioneers, who is a good sort, if slightly tending to the glass-empty persuasion.

    It looks as if rescue at sea was an oversight in a bill that is in any case nasty and a disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888241145720838
    Worth posting this comment as well https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1413888242596913155

    But, like a Freudian slip, the oversight is revealing. It reveals a tendency to reach for the criminal law while failing properly to think through what the proposed offence (here, of helping asylum seekers reach the UK) should actually catch.


    So not so much an oversight, more planned without thought.
    Priti Patel did something thoughtless and counterproductive?

    I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
    I'm sure if he can "twist words" then it should be a likely test case in the high court. If our Judges have any backbone they will throw this out for the callous and malicious act it obviously is.
  • Big G being pathetic, leave Rochdale alone you prat
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    1. It is going to be illegal to rescue migrants unless certain conditions x.
    2. That certain x does not apply to the RNLI etc.
    3. That puts RNLI volunteers and staff at risk.
    I simply do not accept thus narrative

    This law apparently brings us in line with the EU and are you saying the EU allow migrants to drown as that is the inference
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited July 2021
    Drink and cheap coke.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Not going to be hosting much international football in the future are we?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    1. It is going to be illegal to rescue migrants unless certain conditions x.
    2. That certain x does not apply to the RNLI etc.
    3. That puts RNLI volunteers and staff at risk.
    I simply do not accept thus narrative

    This law apparently brings us in line with the EU and are you saying the EU allow migrants to drown as that is the inference
    We're not talking about the EU. We're talking about the RNLI facing prosecutiion. And that will tear their insuranced cover to shreds, too.

    Cue complete collapse.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    This is England.

    If we lose to Italy, there will be a clamour for Southgate's head tomorrow....

    Even if we win, it'll be because England "have won boring". We want to win by "Attack!! Attack!! Attack attack attack!!!!"

    ...and Italy score on the counter attack.

    Win or lose, Gareth has done well. Some of his team selections wouldn't have been mine and like the rest of the nation I would have used Grealish more, despite him playing for Villa. But then I haven't got England to a major tournament final and he has. So I will go with his better judgement.

    And of course being lost in my own wokery I like the cultural Marxist virtue signalling too.

    Arise Sir Gareth.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    PS I am a RNLI supporter too!
    In view of our connections with the sea going back generations we have always been supporters of the RNLI and my son joining the service has given us great pride
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan.
    @TimesRadio

    Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.

    It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
    Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ?
    I don't remember it
    Yep:

    We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-5-july-2021
    That’s not quite the same thing is it?

    There is a difference between “everyone should continue to wear masks” and “people may decide they wish to continue to wear masks”.
    They’re changing “You MUST wear a mask” with “You SHOULD wear a mask”.

    Maybe I’m used to aviation legislation, where there’s whole chapters on the difference between the words MUST, SHALL, SHOULD, MAY and MIGHT.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/authority/
    That's the problem with English: it is far more nuanced than most other languages, although some may express similar distinctions with pitch and tone. I'm hoping tomorrow that Johnson will clarify whether wearing a mask when sitting alone in a car is eccentric, idiotic or barmy.
    Is English really far more nuanced than most other languages? I'd find that very surprising. Do you have a source for this?
    English is the language most foreigners find easiest to learn, so I'd guess not.
    My grandmother (who spent some time teaching English as a forign language) said that English is one of the easiest languages to learn if all you want is to be understood when you speak as it has very simple grammatical rules (no different genders for nouns that don't need it for example). On the other hand it is one of the hardest to master because there are so many exceptions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    And landed. Awesome achievement!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Meanwhile good news for fans of ageing billionaire hipsters. Branson and his crew are safe on the ground. Have to give him some credit in persisting - he has sunk an ocean of money into this.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Is that a nose skid? How too, too, retro.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    1. It is going to be illegal to rescue migrants unless certain conditions x.
    2. That certain x does not apply to the RNLI etc.
    3. That puts RNLI volunteers and staff at risk.
    I simply do not accept thus narrative

    This law apparently brings us in line with the EU and are you saying the EU allow migrants to drown as that is the inference
    Can you point to the exemption in the law for the RNLI or similar organisations?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Carnyx said:

    Is that a nose skid? How too, too, retro.

    Yep. SS1 was the same.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    Neither of us have said that. We've pointed to the law which makes your son a criminal if he rescues a drowning child who then claims asylum.
    The new law replicates the EU law and in neither case will anyone have a criminal record for saving life at sea
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    Meanwhile good news for fans of ageing billionaire hipsters. Branson and his crew are safe on the ground. Have to give him some credit in persisting - he has sunk an ocean of money into this.

    Not wanting to be a party pooper (actually, I do): has Branson sunk an ocean of money into this? I thought he mostly got others to sink money into his projects? ;)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else slightly nervous for Richard Branson?

    Stream goes live in 5 minutes.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=RTpWYWIfP7Y

    Half a million viewers waiting.

    He’s either going to make history as the first man to privately send himself into space...
    He isn't going into space. However he markets his decade late white elephant it isn't going high enough to be in space.
    nothing seems to be happening. Has the streaming broke?
    Stream hasn’t started yet. CNN appear to be covering though, the plane’s taxiing at the moment.
    Taken oiff now on this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KI2_cpR9Ek
    COunting down on VG feed now
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTpWYWIfP7Y
    .. and commercial break!
    Totally Live on Al Jazeera , no breaks so far , made a great job of reporting it. BBC should have people watching how NEWS is done.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/live
    Haven't tried them before - pretty smooth, no adverts. Agreeable American commentators too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    The new law replicates the EU law

    Nope
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    Neither of us have said that. We've pointed to the law which makes your son a criminal if he rescues a drowning child who then claims asylum.
    The new law replicates the EU law and in neither case will anyone have a criminal record for saving life at sea
    ...and you know that how?....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Tribute to Branson and his ego trip?

    Bottles thrown as Leicester Square, London, becomes unofficial ‘fan zone’ for thousands of England fans. #ENGITA #EnglandvsItaly #England #ENG #EURO2020 https://t.co/NdvaX6IxIF

    It will get ugly if England lose.

    It's not very purdy before a ball has been kicked..
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
    I'm sure if he can "twist words" then it should be a likely test case in the high court. If our Judges have any backbone they will throw this out for the callous and malicious act it obviously is.
    If not wearing masks in crowded places is 'irresponsible', then what is leaving the safety of France to cross the treacherous waters of the English channel in boats that are not in any sense of the word seaworthy?

    Just don't f*cking do it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Right, time for a couple of hours’ kip before the football!

    It’s coming home.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    Neither of us have said that. We've pointed to the law which makes your son a criminal if he rescues a drowning child who then claims asylum.
    The new law replicates the EU law and in neither case will anyone have a criminal record for saving life at sea
    I don't think EU law has anything to say about countries policies about migrants at sea, as I don't think that's part of their competence.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan.
    @TimesRadio

    Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.

    It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
    Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ?
    I don't remember it
    Yep:

    We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-5-july-2021
    That’s not quite the same thing is it?

    There is a difference between “everyone should continue to wear masks” and “people may decide they wish to continue to wear masks”.
    They’re changing “You MUST wear a mask” with “You SHOULD wear a mask”.

    Maybe I’m used to aviation legislation, where there’s whole chapters on the difference between the words MUST, SHALL, SHOULD, MAY and MIGHT.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/authority/
    That's the problem with English: it is far more nuanced than most other languages, although some may express similar distinctions with pitch and tone. I'm hoping tomorrow that Johnson will clarify whether wearing a mask when sitting alone in a car is eccentric, idiotic or barmy.
    Is English really far more nuanced than most other languages? I'd find that very surprising. Do you have a source for this?
    English is the language most foreigners find easiest to learn, so I'd guess not.
    Only "easy" because of exposure and motivation.

    The pronunciation is objectively far more difficult than say Italian. And the spelling is more difficult than any language I know of.
    Have you never tried to write anything in French then?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Sandpit said:

    Right, time for a couple of hours’ kip before the football!

    It’s coming home.

    So you don’t go to sleep watching it if it’s even more boring than usual?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else slightly nervous for Richard Branson?

    Stream goes live in 5 minutes.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=RTpWYWIfP7Y

    Half a million viewers waiting.

    He’s either going to make history as the first man to privately send himself into space...
    He isn't going into space. However he markets his decade late white elephant it isn't going high enough to be in space.
    Ok Victor.

    No need to be miserable. The US has long defined 80km as the boundary for astronaut wings.
    No, AIUI the USAF defined it as 80km so their X15 pilots could get astronaut wings. NASA used 100km unto about 2005, when they changed it to 80km.

    So this whole argument is because the USAF wanted to get 'astronauts' in the 1960s. A blooming good reason to stick to 100km IMO.
    It's an impressive achievement, but the nature of space is that there isn't a clear definition, the atmosphere simply peters out gradually.

    Worth comparing to:
    Yuri Gagarin reached 187 miles high
    Alan Shepard reached 116 miles high
    The International Space Station is in orbit 250 miles high

    Typical of the private sector to seek to deliver the minimum necessary to reach a technical definition...
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
    Lol. I am quoting from the bill as published. Its a shit bill. Published in malice. To make bigots happy. By hoping that RNLI volunteers like your son stop pulling drowning migrants out of the channel.

    You support it of course. No wonder you are do angry.
    I support my son at sea saving others and I support the government preventing those taking the perilous journey and putting the lifesavers lives at risk

    This bill will be clarified wherever doubt exists and international rescue will be unaffected
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    PS I am a RNLI supporter too!
    In view of our connections with the sea going back generations we have always been supporters of the RNLI and my son joining the service has given us great pride
    As it should! He and all the volunteers are bigger and better than most of us. All the more reason why you should be outraged by this bill.

    Why not calm down, breathe, and read it. Then read what the RNLI say about it. Read what immigration lawyers are saying about it. The bill is clear and unambiguous in its explicit lack of protections for your son and his colleagues.

    Right now you are ranting hysterically insisting that it isn't true because it can't be true because Boris is wonderful.

    Read.
    The.
    Bill.
    You buffoon.
    Alternatively, the people leaving the safety of France could simply decide not to do it.

    Ever sailed across the channel? for someone who doesn't know what they are doing, its lunacy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?
    How many have valid Visas?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Anyone watching it in the pub tonight?? Good luck!

    I am staying in.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Poor Matt Fitzpatrick won't be getting to Wembley tonight given the rain at the Scottish Open.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,323

    Meanwhile good news for fans of ageing billionaire hipsters. Branson and his crew are safe on the ground. Have to give him some credit in persisting - he has sunk an ocean of money into this.

    Not wanting to be a party pooper (actually, I do): has Branson sunk an ocean of money into this? I thought he mostly got others to sink money into his projects? ;)
    You can bet on it , he will have made money out of it.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?
    How many have valid Visas?
    how many are asylum seekers?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Prediction - there will be violence tonight, that’s obvious

    The combo of an England final, Wembley, plus a year of plague and lockdown, makes it inevitable. I can hear chants and singing in Camden already. People want to partayyy

    However, if England win the violence will be glossed over. Expect terms like ‘boyish horseplay’, ‘a few arrests’, ‘high spirits’, and so forth. If England lose, there might be a couple of stabbings, there will definitely be an orgy of Guardian think-pieces about ‘the ugly side of Englishness’.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Have a look at this if you have access - the RNLI are not happy.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c1ac60f-b4c9-4c9f-b0a0-1e9201aebca2
    The idea the RNLI will not rescue those in peril on the sea is a narrative so absurd it is nonsense

    Please show me where the Home Secretary has said the RNLI will not save lives in the Channel or anywhere else
    PS I am a RNLI supporter too!
    In view of our connections with the sea going back generations we have always been supporters of the RNLI and my son joining the service has given us great pride
    As it should! He and all the volunteers are bigger and better than most of us. All the more reason why you should be outraged by this bill.

    Why not calm down, breathe, and read it. Then read what the RNLI say about it. Read what immigration lawyers are saying about it. The bill is clear and unambiguous in its explicit lack of protections for your son and his colleagues.

    Right now you are ranting hysterically insisting that it isn't true because it can't be true because Boris is wonderful.

    Read.
    The.
    Bill.
    You buffoon.
    You lost me with buffoon

    And nothing to do with Boris but someone has to stop these perilous journeys

    I am certain nobody on here believes HMG will outlaw sea rescue and if the bill needs rewording then that will happen
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    You are twisting words and to play this narrative for your hatred of HMG just adds another side to your Victor Meldrew persona
    Lol. I am quoting from the bill as published. Its a shit bill. Published in malice. To make bigots happy. By hoping that RNLI volunteers like your son stop pulling drowning migrants out of the channel.

    You support it of course. No wonder you are do angry.
    I support my son at sea saving others and I support the government preventing those taking the perilous journey and putting the lifesavers lives at risk

    This bill will be clarified wherever doubt exists and international rescue will be unaffected
    The people who think we should pull out every stop to rescue lunatics in unseaworthy boats must also think every block of flats in Britain should be provided with crash mats, in case somebody wants to jump from 100 feet.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Tribute to Branson and his ego trip?

    Bottles thrown as Leicester Square, London, becomes unofficial ‘fan zone’ for thousands of England fans. #ENGITA #EnglandvsItaly #England #ENG #EURO2020 https://t.co/NdvaX6IxIF

    It will get ugly if England lose.

    It's not very purdy before a ball has been kicked..
    Spare a thought for those working on A&E tonight.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?
    How many have valid Visas?
    how many are asylum seekers?
    Why? Is France an unsafe country?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    That sounds awful. Surely it is International Law that ships have to search for survivors etc?
    The new law makes it an offence to "knowingly facilitate the arrival or attempted arrival in, or the attempted entry into, the United Kingdom" if you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is an asylum seeker.

    Suspect that international law does mandate such a rescue. Basic human decency certainly does. And they getting your collar felt back on shore for "facilitating" their "arrival" by refusing to let them drown.

    Ah well. Whither the country that rescued Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.
    ...also the Ugandan Asians....pull the ladder up Priti!
    Did they enter illegally?
    ...who says boat migrants are illegal?
    How many have valid Visas?
    how many are asylum seekers?
    Why? Is France an unsafe country?
    It’s led by Emmanuel Macron and is full of French people.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    Leon said:

    Prediction - there will be violence tonight, that’s obvious

    The combo of an England final, Wembley, plus a year of plague and lockdown, makes it inevitable. I can hear chants and singing in Camden already. People want to partayyy

    However, if England win the violence will be glossed over. Expect terms like ‘boyish horseplay’, ‘a few arrests’, ‘high spirits’, and so forth. If England lose, there might be a couple of stabbings, there will definitely be an orgy of Guardian think-pieces about ‘the ugly side of Englishness’.

    There will be those Guardian pieces win or lose.
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