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If Gareth Southgate was a party leader his ratings would ensure his party won a landslide – politica

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 11 in General
If Gareth Southgate was a party leader his ratings would ensure his party won a landslide – politicalbetting.com

Gary Neville said that Gareth Southgate is "everything a leader should be" this week. Our net favourability ratings show the England boss is considerably more popular than both Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer Southgate: +61Johnson: -15Starmer: -29https://t.co/157f5K0oEl pic.twitter.com/GhTcKukgO8

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,031
    Well, let's see how he looks tomorrow morning.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 34,764
    edited July 11
    Second, like….Italy?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 34,764
    Being more popular than those two is a very low bar
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    I've a nasty feeling the game itself will be a dull spectacle. I really hope I'm wrong.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 11
    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 11
    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    If you beat dogs into submission for long enough they don't know any different. Small wonder that swathes of the country are now quivering jellies, fearing even to step beyond their thresholds without a mask.


    * 'Reek' rather than 'wreck' in acknowledgement of Theon Greyjoy. His sister launched a mission to rescue him from the dog kennels. But when she arrived and flung wide the doors for him to come home and taste freedom once more, he refused: preferring instead a life of cowering in the corner of his kennel.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,035

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,895
    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,668
    edited July 11
    Of course, if he were a party leader he might have to have things like policies and opinions on non-trivial matters. That would probably devastate his approval ratings.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,183
    hysterical, it's definition: "affected by or deriving from wildly uncontrolled emotion."

    It's a human condition and affects our behavior often.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,895

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    Morning all.

    If the beard was a goaty he wouldn't be so popular.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    edited July 11

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Yes but the reference was specifically to TdF racing gear. If you haven't seen it you won't understand quite how horrible the thought is.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,895
    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
    Have you actually read that Guardian article to which you refer?
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Fishing said:

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    The utilitarian argument for freedom isn't that people are necessarily perfectly competent, it's that no-one is sufficiently more so to make decisions on their behalf.

    The lack of competence that our scientists and government have generally shown in their modelling and decisions in the past eighteen months should give pause to anyone who thinks that education always, or even often, leads to good judgement in inexact sciences like public health policy.
    Almost back to the famous viral image of why science teachers should never be on playground duty. The point behind the joke is that they can also have an amazing insight in a very narrow field of vision. Which can be near useless, and even downright dangerous, in normal life.

    http://www.magicalmaths.org/why-science-teachers-should-never-do-playground-duty-funny/
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 11

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    The last case of smallpox in the world, Janet Parker, wasn't the fault of members of the public. It was the very laboratory scientists that you seem to think should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,668
    edited July 11

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    It's Starmerism. A man so convinced in the fundamental Goodness of Government, at least the government led by him, that his only solution to every problem is more taxes, more spending, more rules, more regulations, more nannying, less freedom ...

    And of course rather too many in today's Conservative Party aren't much better. But that's the main reason why Starmer has found it so difficult to oppose the bossiest, most bullying government in my lifetime.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,895

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    The last case of smallpox in the world, Janet Parker, wasn't the fault of members of the public. It was the very laboratory scientists that you seem to think should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
    I expect everyone wants to be free to go out and enjoy themselves, but without the risk of infection with a serious and possibly fatal disease from some reckless fool who probably does not even realise he is carrying the virus.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    The big deal should be about vaccination not whether people go about their normal lives again.

    13% of the adult population have still not received their 1st jab and over 30% their second. None of our children have received them.

    That should be the focus, not trying to prevent people who have taken up the offer of a vaccination to live life again.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    The last case of smallpox in the world, Janet Parker, wasn't the fault of members of the public. It was the very laboratory scientists that you seem to think should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
    I expect everyone wants to be free to go out and enjoy themselves, but without the risk of infection with a serious and possibly fatal disease from some reckless fool who probably does not even realise he is carrying the virus.
    I'm sorry but I'm not sure how to be polite and tell you f-off.

    I don't give a fuck any more I'm afraid. If I catch covid I shan't tell anyone, I shan't contact any track and trace and I shan't be self-isolating. If I know I'm infectious then I'll pop a mask on and that's that. I'm vaccinated and I expect everyone else to be.

    This is no longer a killer virus. Of 150 causes of death in the UK right now only 1 will be even vaguely related to covid (almost certainly pre-existing conditions too).

    So screw you. I will live my life.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Fishing said:

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    It's Starmerism. A man so convinced in the fundamental Goodness of Government, at least the government led by him, that his only solution to every problem is more taxes, more spending, more rules, more regulations, more nannying, less freedom ...

    And of course rather too many in today's Conservative Party aren't much better. But that's the main reason why Starmer has found it so difficult to oppose the bossiest, most bullying government in my lifetime.
    Totally agree
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    I mean, an average of around 750 people die from flu every week in the UK. I don't ever remember seeing anyone mention that they were killed by other selfish people.

    The whole thing is beyond stupid now.

    Live life. You only get one. Use it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    edited July 11

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
    Have you actually read that Guardian article to which you refer?
    1 - You refer to "rules", which did not exist. There were Regulations (law) and Guidance (er ... guidance, or 'advice' as it described itself).
    2 - Exercise was mainly under guidance, unless you have a citation of the Regulations at the time you insist Boris broke something.

    You were saying?

    Anyhoo, I 'm off on my bike to look at a blocked public footpath, and need to be back to pick some redcurrants and gooseberries before it warms up or rains.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    I stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops around three weeks ago. No one has ever said anything to me. I went to Wimbledon and despite everyone being told in the queue that we all had to wear masks until in our court seats, everyone ditched them once inside the grounds. It was brilliant. A collective moment of blissful freedom.

    If I'm on a packed train I might pop a mask on. That's all.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    ...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,895
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
    Have you actually read that Guardian article to which you refer?
    1 - You refer to "rules", which did not exist. There were Regulations (law) and Guidance (er ... guidance, or 'advice' as it described itself).
    2 - Exercise was mainly under guidance, unless you have a citation of the Regulations at the time you insist Boris broke something.

    You were saying?

    Driving seven miles to take exercise was the issue, not the exercise itself.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,668

    I stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops around three weeks ago. No one has ever said anything to me. I went to Wimbledon and despite everyone being told in the queue that we all had to wear masks until in our court seats, everyone ditched them once inside the grounds. It was brilliant. A collective moment of blissful freedom.

    If I'm on a packed train I might pop a mask on. That's all.

    I'm in Mexico at the moment and it is interesting to see the differences with mask wearing and restrictions generally. They have:

    - no real controls on travel

    but

    - mask-wearing even outdoors, apparently largely voluntary
    - frequent temperature checking
    - pointless hand-sanitiser everywhere.

    I'll also be interested to see how things are when I head up to California in a couple of weeks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885
    Fishing said:

    I stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops around three weeks ago. No one has ever said anything to me. I went to Wimbledon and despite everyone being told in the queue that we all had to wear masks until in our court seats, everyone ditched them once inside the grounds. It was brilliant. A collective moment of blissful freedom.

    If I'm on a packed train I might pop a mask on. That's all.

    I'm in Mexico at the moment and it is interesting to see the differences with mask wearing and restrictions generally. They have:

    - no real controls on travel

    but

    - mask-wearing even outdoors, apparently largely voluntary
    - frequent temperature checking
    - pointless hand-sanitiser everywhere.

    I'll also be interested to see how things are when I head up to California in a couple of weeks.
    I can tell you if you like: there are restrictions on public transport, in an Uber, and at airports. Staff in shops and restaurants wear masks. A few zealots still wear them on the streets, but it's pretty rare.

    Otherwise, all is normal.

    Karaoke bars are open.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.

    Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.

    A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prices-up-deliveries-down-in-driver-crisis-bwxlhldgm

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    edited July 11
    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    Cavendish has been extremely lucky. Most notably Sam Bennett’s injury. But also by several other factors, including:
    - the Ewen/Sagan crash
    - Roglič‘s early crash and exit, plus the decimation of his great team by that idiotic German woman
    - Van Aert trying (and failing) for the yellow jersey in the first week
    - Van der Poel dropping out in favour of the Olympics
    - Philipsen and Colbrelli being off-form and Merlier missing the time cut
    - A general lack of class sprinters and a total absence of teams built around sprinters

    In addition, Cavendish is not one fifth of the all-round cycling beast that was Merckx. He could climb, he could do cobbles, he could solo, he could do breakaways, he could do sleet, snow, gales and torrential rain, he could do baking hot days, he could act as commander in chief in a rowdy peloton, he could sprint, he could time trial.
    Cavendish can sprint. That’s it.

    But fortune favours the lucky as well as the brave.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885
    Just watched Black Widow.

    It's the Quantum of Solace of the MCU. I'm still not entirely clear what exactly happened.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 32,646
    So Labour spokesperson says that ‘cramming’ 65,000 fans into Wembley tonight will be’dangerous’ for supporters.

    A few hours later, Sir Keir blags himself two tickets to the match!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9776481/Sir-Keir-Starmer-slammed-bagging-two-free-tickets-Sundays-Euros.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 23,276
    Sandpit said:

    So Labour spokesperson says that ‘cramming’ 65,000 fans into Wembley tonight will be’dangerous’ for supporters.

    A few hours later, Sir Keir blags himself two tickets to the match!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9776481/Sir-Keir-Starmer-slammed-bagging-two-free-tickets-Sundays-Euros.html

    I wonder what the truth behind that story is!

    And Good Morning everyone. Pleasant summer morning here today. Lively week ahead, too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 25,169
    Sandpit said:

    So Labour spokesperson says that ‘cramming’ 65,000 fans into Wembley tonight will be’dangerous’ for supporters.

    A few hours later, Sir Keir blags himself two tickets to the match!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9776481/Sir-Keir-Starmer-slammed-bagging-two-free-tickets-Sundays-Euros.html

    I think both are true. A lot of the supporters will be unvaxed, or single vaxxed, while Starmer is double vaxxed. Who would turn down tickets if they could blag them? But very likely some there tonight will bring home the Delta.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    Fishing said:

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    It's Starmerism. A man so convinced in the fundamental Goodness of Government, at least the government led by him, that his only solution to every problem is more taxes, more spending, more rules, more regulations, more nannying, less freedom ...

    And of course rather too many in today's Conservative Party aren't much better. But that's the main reason why Starmer has found it so difficult to oppose the bossiest, most bullying government in my lifetime.
    The Conservative Party solution to every problem is more taxes, more spending, more rules, more regulations, more nannying and less freedom. It’s what the (English) people voted for.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/24330/uk-tax-burden-as-share-gdp-timeline/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885
    Sandpit said:

    So Labour spokesperson says that ‘cramming’ 65,000 fans into Wembley tonight will be’dangerous’ for supporters.

    A few hours later, Sir Keir blags himself two tickets to the match!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9776481/Sir-Keir-Starmer-slammed-bagging-two-free-tickets-Sundays-Euros.html

    He obviously won't be using them. This is all part of his plan to reduce the number of people in the stadium, and therefore do more than Boris ever did to stamp out COVID-19.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I mean, an average of around 750 people die from flu every week in the UK. I don't ever remember seeing anyone mention that they were killed by other selfish people.

    When flu takes off later in the Autumn, so will the guilt-tripping: gag yourself whenever you leave the house or you want the NHS to collapse and thousands of people to die. Watch.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 25,169
    edited July 11
    I note that Argentina beat the Brazil, the favourite, last night 1 nil to win the Copa America.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 23,276
    edited July 11
    Foxy said:

    Personally, despite being double vaxxed, I am being cautious. I will be going to the theatre in London next week to see Foxjr2 in his new play (seems to be going extremely well) but wearing an FFP3 on the tube. At pubs I am sitting outside, using the App, and going only to dine where I asses as low risk. Work is PPE as usual. I will watch the football at home tonight.

    I have seen enough nasty covid to not want it, and it will be safer in September, when the wave has subsided and the youngsters vaccinated. I don't feel my freedom is compromised at all, except by irresponsible fellow citizens behaving recklessly.

    Agree about caution; we've got a family party later this week; Mrs C's birthday so we're going to a restaurant where they've offered us a marquee. Not as many there as they ought to be; Thailand family can't come of course. No unvaccinated either, although I suspect one grandchild has only had his first shot. Otherwise u3a activities are still Zoom, large rooms or outside., and, of course, since everyone's over 55 (at least!) we've all been vaccinated.

    Any pub trip will be outside.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 6,739

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    The last case of smallpox in the world, Janet Parker, wasn't the fault of members of the public. It was the very laboratory scientists that you seem to think should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
    You offer plenty to be sneering and supercilious about. You sound a. Still drunk from last night and b. Like a not overly bright teenager really pleased with himself cos he's eventually understood the thunderingly obvious message of his o level set text. Restricting individual freedom for the common good is precisely what Governments are there to do. It pretty much defines them. You may not like or understand the fact, but there it is.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,640
    Foxy said:

    I note that Argentina beat the Brazil, the favourite, last night 1 nil to win the Copa America.

    They'll be more goals tonight! I predict an open end to end game.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 20,868
    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    I wonder how many people saying this actually wear a FFP2 or FFP3 mask.

    Rather than one of those flimsy blue things which have a minimal effect.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    edited July 11

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
    Have you actually read that Guardian article to which you refer?
    1 - You refer to "rules", which did not exist. There were Regulations (law) and Guidance (er ... guidance, or 'advice' as it described itself).
    2 - Exercise was mainly under guidance, unless you have a citation of the Regulations at the time you insist Boris broke something.

    You were saying?

    Driving seven miles to take exercise was the issue, not the exercise itself.

    One day later the G switched to a description of "Johnson’s cycle ride to the Olympic Park on Sunday", so they couldn't make even that stick by the look of it by day two.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/12/boris-johnsons-bike-ride-a-storm-in-a-teacup-or-eroding-public-confidence

    7 miles on a bicycle is about 30-35 minues, especially somewhere as flat as London. That is local.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 42,262
    edited July 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    The last case of smallpox in the world, Janet Parker, wasn't the fault of members of the public. It was the very laboratory scientists that you seem to think should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
    You offer plenty to be sneering and supercilious about. You sound a. Still drunk from last night and b. Like a not overly bright teenager really pleased with himself cos he's eventually understood the thunderingly obvious message of his o level set text. Restricting individual freedom for the common good is precisely what Governments are there to do. It pretty much defines them. You may not like or understand the fact, but there it is.
    The only point I would make is that we are at now at the time where continuing restrictions may well be worse for the health of the nation and certainly the uptick in normality most people seek

    To me it is individual responsibility and I will act accordingly and no matter how much you try to restrict people many will ignore it and the law enforcement on those doing so is virtually non existent

    And why is Starmer and the left marooned in the opinion polls, is nobody listening to them
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 33,070

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    It’s a shame you can’t enjoy your friends and partners in England doing well
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    Scott_xP said:

    Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.

    Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.

    A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prices-up-deliveries-down-in-driver-crisis-bwxlhldgm

    Of course thy are prioritising larger customers. When demand outstrips capacity a smart planner optimises the plan to get the maximum amount of product out the door. That means pulling out the smaller ones which add complexity and downtime to maximise what is made.

    Fowlers and all of them don't have enough drivers. Are they better to have those fully employed shifting as much tonnage as possible? Or to cut yet further what can be hauled by prioritising the small drops where the truck is stopped far more?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 33,070
    rcs1000 said:

    Just watched Black Widow.

    It's the Quantum of Solace of the MCU. I'm still not entirely clear what exactly happened.

    Scarlet Johansson wore a cat suit and demonstrated her moves?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 4,151
    Charles said:

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    The last case of smallpox in the world, Janet Parker, wasn't the fault of members of the public. It was the very laboratory scientists that you seem to think should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
    I expect everyone wants to be free to go out and enjoy themselves, but without the risk of infection with a serious and possibly fatal disease from some reckless fool who probably does not even realise he is carrying the virus.
    I'm sorry but I'm not sure how to be polite and tell you f-off.

    I don't give a fuck any more I'm afraid. If I catch covid I shan't tell anyone, I shan't contact any track and trace and I shan't be self-isolating. If I know I'm infectious then I'll pop a mask on and that's that. I'm vaccinated and I expect everyone else to be.

    This is no longer a killer virus. Of 150 causes of death in the UK right now only 1 will be even vaguely related to covid (almost certainly pre-existing conditions too).

    So screw you. I will live my life.
    I agree with you on every point except one.

    If you know you are infectious then it is an unreasonable imposition on other people to expose them to that risk (even with mitigating features such as a mask).

    If you know you are infectious you should voluntarily self-isolate. Otherwise live your life
    Yes. Even before the pandemic we knew that people should stay home if they are infectious, even with something like a cold, because everyone would always complain about the presenteeism of people struggling into work with a cold and spreading it to everyone.

    Hopefully people will stay home more generally when they have an infectious disease, whether that is Covid, or a cold.

    The bit that needs to change to go back to normal is self-isolating if a contact - i.e. due to the chance of being infectious
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 3,936
    Charles said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    It’s a shame you can’t enjoy your friends and partners in England doing well
    Don't we all enjoy it when especially Wales and Scotland lose? I know I do.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 33,070

    Sandpit said:

    So Labour spokesperson says that ‘cramming’ 65,000 fans into Wembley tonight will be’dangerous’ for supporters.

    A few hours later, Sir Keir blags himself two tickets to the match!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9776481/Sir-Keir-Starmer-slammed-bagging-two-free-tickets-Sundays-Euros.html

    I wonder what the truth behind that story is!

    And Good Morning everyone. Pleasant summer morning here today. Lively week ahead, too.
    The truth is that the LoTO was given two tickets as a guest of the Premier League

    They also played politics by trying to bag all the downside - getting as close as they can to the government position while calling them reckless

    I suppose, at a stretch, it’s marginally “do as I say not as I do” but no one apart from the Mail will give a shit
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,149
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Root, it was the last but one rugby world cup, I think, when Scotland were subjected to appalling refereeing. They should've beaten Australia but a trio of terrible decisions robbed them of that. Shocking display, and I was quite aggravated by it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 42,918

    Fishing said:

    I'll cheekily repost this as it was lost in injury time of the last thread. With regard to half the population still wanting to be restricted:

    Have we become so risk-averse that we want to reduce life to cowering reeks?* All of life contains risk. When you step out of the shower or walk down the stairs or when you cross the road or eat a peanut. Unless we want to void the meaning of life in a dystopian vacuum pack then we have to embrace some risks.

    Is either group competent to assess the risks to which they expose themselves and, crucially, others? This is not bungee jumping. It might be Typhoid Mary.
    I'm sure this isn't you but the sneering, supercilious, attitude that someone knows better than me about how I should be free, or even if I should be, is the kind of thing that sends a shudder down my spine.

    It's the worst kind of dystopian brave new world. Something straight out of A Handmaiden's Tale.

    It's Starmerism. A man so convinced in the fundamental Goodness of Government, at least the government led by him, that his only solution to every problem is more taxes, more spending, more rules, more regulations, more nannying, less freedom ...

    And of course rather too many in today's Conservative Party aren't much better. But that's the main reason why Starmer has found it so difficult to oppose the bossiest, most bullying government in my lifetime.
    The Conservative Party solution to every problem is more taxes, more spending, more rules, more regulations, more nannying and less freedom. It’s what the (English) people voted for.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/24330/uk-tax-burden-as-share-gdp-timeline/
    From looking at that the Thatcher/Major government's look pretty dry to me?

    It's c.2000 when the tax burden went into reverse.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,538
    edited July 11
    Zeitgeist is a wonderful thing in that it's so unpredictable. Fashion's the clearest example. Yesterday's mullet becomes ugly overnight as does the wearer. The authoritarian early sixties with the Oz trials turned into the hippy drug fuelled 70's.

    When the socially illiberal Thatherism lead to the electric day in 1997 when the clouds lifted. The whipping hanging Tory Home Secretaries and their elderly clique of yelping blue rinses felt dated overnight.

    It could be that we are on the verge of another one. It's never easy to see the spark but it's often when the pendulum is at it's widest. BLM meet the booing Priti Patels. Hartlepool meets Chesham and Amersham......

    It could be just wild optimism but the isolationist place we've been at for the last few years with the Faragists calling the shots does feel a very old fashioned and foreign country.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    Regarding Southgate, as he is that popular perhaps the clown could try and rope him in to promote FREEDOM DAY and the dropping of all restrictions and get back to work and buying a £4 cup of twatty coffee you plebs.

    The polls still show that people aren't as stupid as the PM, so a nice celeb endorsing the policy would really help. Southgate would be up for that wouldn't he...?
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090

    Scott_xP said:

    Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.

    Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.

    A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prices-up-deliveries-down-in-driver-crisis-bwxlhldgm

    Of course thy are prioritising larger customers. When demand outstrips capacity a smart planner optimises the plan to get the maximum amount of product out the door. That means pulling out the smaller ones which add complexity and downtime to maximise what is made.

    Fowlers and all of them don't have enough drivers. Are they better to have those fully employed shifting as much tonnage as possible? Or to cut yet further what can be hauled by prioritising the small drops where the truck is stopped far more?
    A similar thing has been happening with shipping on containers from the Far East all year.

    As for lorry drivers Could IR35 changes be behind as said by this contractor/disguised employee lobbying group

    https://www.contractoruk.com/news/0015112ir35_reform_fuelling_100000_hgv_driver_shortage.html?utm_source=NL&utm_medium=News&utm_campaign=IR35
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 42,918
    Gnud said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    "Why do you want Scotland to be independent?"
    "Because I didn't like watching English people on the television celebrating the English football team's victory over Italy."

    Impressive!
    It's axiomatic that whatever happens in England whenever and by whomever it's always "just another reason for Scottish independence."
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    edited July 11
    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    Even a crappy cloth mask will protect you a little bit because it stops you touching your nose and mouth which most of us do more than we know. That said, this is one of many areas in which there should have been better public education. You would have thought the political class could organise it so that they themselves wore proper masks rather than rubbishy bits of cloth. They all seem to be able to wear poppies for Remembrance Sunday. Can't be too hard for them all to wear FFP2 or FFP3 masks surely.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,018
    Whether we win or not tonight, Southgate has managed to get England counted amongst the top tier of world football again. We no longer have to stand in the shadow of teams such as Belgium or Portugal.

    Well done that man. The knighthood is in the post.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,147
    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    Those others have turned down the chance of a free and highly safe/efficacious vaccine that several billion others on this planet are crying out for.

    If you must leave the house while harbouring a viral infection, then wearing a mask and not snotting on everyone is polite.

    Expecting people to wear a mask when they are not ill is at this point an unreasonable imposition.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849
    Gnud said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    "Why do you want Scotland to be independent?"
    "Because I didn't like watching English people on the television celebrating the English football team's victory over Italy."

    Impressive!
    “It is rarely difficult to distinguish between a ray of sunshine and a Scotsman bearing a grudge.”
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 11
    There's a very good piece about Keir Starmer in today's Telegraph. It's sad but I think true. And it makes me realise who Keir Starmer now reminds me of:

    Ted Heath

    The same rather stiff, dour, manner which voters find hard to warm to.

    He comes across as stuffy and awkward.

    'Successful politicians are often phony, yet manage to make voters think they’re genuine. Sir Keir is genuine, yet manages to make voters think he’s phony.'

    Ouch.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    'England’s exploits at the Euros are helping to recruit legions of new football fans – not least in Westminster. Politicians who have never previously expressed the least interest in the game are suddenly football-mad. Boris Johnson’s sung from the stands at Wembley. Priti Patel’s published photos of her cheering at the TV. Even Jacob Rees-Mogg, of all people, has stepped daintily aboard the bandwagon.

    A week ago he likened Sajid Javid to Jack Grealish, hailing the new Health Secretary as a “super sub” who has joined the field of play “with great effect and panache”. Then on Thursday, at the despatch box of the Commons, the right honourable member for North East Somerset performed John Barnes’s rap from World in Motion, the 1990 England World Cup single.

    “Can I assure you, Mr Speaker,” he declared, “that we ain’t no hooligans, this ain’t no football song/ Three lions on my chest, I know we can’t go wrong!”

    God bless the adviser who had to prep him for all this. “Mr Grealish is a player of association football, sir, as formerly was Mr Barnes.”

    “And ‘rap’?”

    “A form of spoken-word poetry, sir, popularised by African-American musicians, but also widely enjoyed outside the Thirteen Colonies.”

    Of all the politicians proclaiming their passion for football, however, the one who seems least convincing is Sir Keir Starmer. Which is odd. Because unlike the rest of them, the Labour leader genuinely does love it.

    In fact, he’s a lifelong football obsessive. He’s a season ticket holder at Arsenal, and plays five-a-side every week. Yet somehow, whenever he talks about it, he comes across like someone who barely knows what shape the ball is, and is having to read off a cue card held up by an aide. Even his tweets about football are wooden. “Very encouraging start! Lots to build on from that performance… We take the point and move on… Huge credit to Gareth Southgate and the team…”

    It may seem a trivial point. But actually I think it highlights Sir Keir’s biggest problem. He’s struggling to get voters to warm to him. And in large part, it’s because he’s so stiff, so stilted, that he seems inauthentic – even when he’s being utterly sincere.

    It isn’t exactly helping his party’s efforts to persuade the country that they’re no longer “out of touch” with “ordinary people”. Participants in focus groups have taken Sir Keir to be “a bit of a toff” – when in reality he’s working-class. His father worked in a factory, his mother was a nurse. Yet because he seems so stuffy and awkward and buttoned-up, people view him like Ralph, the emotionally constipated aristocrat played by Charlie Higson in The Fast Show.

    It’s a nightmare for Labour. Successful politicians are often phony, yet manage to make voters think they’re genuine. Sir Keir is genuine, yet manages to make voters think he’s phony.'

    Michael Deacon

    You can get 3 months for £1 trial subscription with the Telegraph.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 3,936
    edited July 11

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Root, it was the last but one rugby world cup, I think, when Scotland were subjected to appalling refereeing. They should've beaten Australia but a trio of terrible decisions robbed them of that. Shocking display, and I was quite aggravated by it.

    The thing that aggravates me is women commentators on men 's rugby who can't commentate. There was a woman adding comment to the England game yesterday on C 4 who should have been.muted from the start.. all she could say was how wonderful it was to see the skills on show.. She is probably an England women's rugby player but great players don't always make great commentators.... The woman commentator from the BBC is awful and you have to suffer her for the full 80.mins... yikes.


    .
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,147

    Whether we win or not tonight, Southgate has managed to get England counted amongst the top tier of world football again. We no longer have to stand in the shadow of teams such as Belgium or Portugal.

    Well done that man. The knighthood is in the post.

    Winning something could be a strangely cathartic thing. I’m struck by Spanish and German friends who are easily able to treat getting knocked out in cheerful good spirit. Because they’ve all had success in the footie it isn’t this monkey on their back they’ve had since they were 6 years old. So when they lose, they don’t act like 6 years olds with a pet monkey. Like I do.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 11
    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    No it isn't.

    The right thing to do is get vaccinated.

    Lots of people cannot wear masks or do not wish to. That's fine. It's personal freedom and the chances of a vaccinated person spreading this thing to others and them then dying from this (when they are already themselves presumably wearing a mask in their concern) is beyond miniscule.

    Vaccinated people should now do what they want and everyone telling them otherwise can fuck off.

    The precise words I will use to anyone who tells me otherwise.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Italians living in England battle with divided loyalties over who to support in the Euro final

    While some fans remain undecided, for many Britons whose heritage is in Italy it's less 'football's coming home' and more 'Forza Azzurri!'" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/10/italians-living-england-battle-divided-loyalties-support-euro/

    People really don't have much to worry about if they care about people they've never met kicking a ball around.

    It's not a war, it's just a silly and mostly rather boring game.
    Ah, we're at the 'pretend its surprising that people get excited at sporting contests despite humans doing so for thousands of years' stage.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,149
    Mr. Root, sounds like tokenism, although, to be fair, a huge number of commentators are bloody tedious.

    The solitary season when we had Brundle and Coulthard for F1 was very good.

    But most of the time there's been at least one ropey F1 commentator.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,147
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Italians living in England battle with divided loyalties over who to support in the Euro final

    While some fans remain undecided, for many Britons whose heritage is in Italy it's less 'football's coming home' and more 'Forza Azzurri!'" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/10/italians-living-england-battle-divided-loyalties-support-euro/

    People really don't have much to worry about if they care about people they've never met kicking a ball around.

    It's not a war, it's just a silly and mostly rather boring game.
    Ah, we're at the 'pretend its surprising that people get excited at sporting contests despite humans doing so for thousands of years' stage.
    Mr Fishing could do worse than watch Russel Brand’s latest missive about all this. Yes it’s daft and silly to care about something that doesn’t matter. But it unleashes powerful emotions and hormones and a sense of collective self.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    moonshine said:

    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    Those others have turned down the chance of a free and highly safe/efficacious vaccine that several billion others on this planet are crying out for.

    If you must leave the house while harbouring a viral infection, then wearing a mask and not snotting on everyone is polite.

    Expecting people to wear a mask when they are not ill is at this point an unreasonable imposition.
    Exactly.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    Charles said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    It’s a shame you can’t enjoy your friends and partners in England doing well
    I’m enjoying every minute Charles.

    N'interrompez jamais un ennemi qui est en train de faire une erreur.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 25,169

    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    Vaccinated people should now do what they want and everyone telling them otherwise can fuck off.

    The precise words I will use to anyone who tells me otherwise.
    English manners, Cockney style.


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,895
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
    Have you actually read that Guardian article to which you refer?
    1 - You refer to "rules", which did not exist. There were Regulations (law) and Guidance (er ... guidance, or 'advice' as it described itself).
    2 - Exercise was mainly under guidance, unless you have a citation of the Regulations at the time you insist Boris broke something.

    You were saying?

    Driving seven miles to take exercise was the issue, not the exercise itself.

    One day later the G switched to a description of "Johnson’s cycle ride to the Olympic Park on Sunday", so they couldn't make even that stick by the look of it by day two.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/12/boris-johnsons-bike-ride-a-storm-in-a-teacup-or-eroding-public-confidence

    7 miles on a bicycle is about 30-35 minues, especially somewhere as flat as London. That is local.
    Seven miles was local once they'd rescinded the fines dished out to the women who drove a mere five miles to exercise, lower down in the piece.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 23,276
    edited July 11
    I just hope that we don't get the stories about abuse of opposition supporters that we had after the Denmark game. Must be difficult being in a 10-1 minority.
    Also that any booing is confined to when Boris Johnson stands up. Not when the Italian anthem is played.

    England is after all, the host for this game.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 999
    Roger said:

    Zeitgeist is a wonderful thing in that it's so unpredictable. Fashion's the clearest example. Yesterday's mullet becomes ugly overnight as does the wearer. The authoritarian early sixties with the Oz trials turned into the hippy drug fuelled 70's.

    When the socially illiberal Thatherism lead to the electric day in 1997 when the clouds lifted. The whipping hanging Tory Home Secretaries and their elderly clique of yelping blue rinses felt dated overnight.

    It could be that we are on the verge of another one. It's never easy to see the spark but it's often when the pendulum is at it's widest. BLM meet the booing Priti Patels. Hartlepool meets Chesham and Amersham......

    It could be just wild optimism but the isolationist place we've been at for the last few years with the Faragists calling the shots does feel a very old fashioned and foreign country.

    It has been said that if you can remember the 1960s you weren't really there, and you have just proved the point! There was only one Oz trial - in 1971. The defendants were jailed, and then released after 4 days on remand pending appeal. A good-natured ramble, masquerading as a demo, sauntered round the West End one August afternoon and ended up stoned on the median divider in Park Lane. John and Yoko were there. Felix Dennis was there. And so was I.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,149
    Mr. Dickson, ironic that Napoleon said that, given his encounter with the Russian winter.

    King Cole, abuse of supporters is bloody wretched.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 94,885
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Italians living in England battle with divided loyalties over who to support in the Euro final

    While some fans remain undecided, for many Britons whose heritage is in Italy it's less 'football's coming home' and more 'Forza Azzurri!'" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/10/italians-living-england-battle-divided-loyalties-support-euro/

    People really don't have much to worry about if they care about people they've never met kicking a ball around.

    It's not a war, it's just a silly and mostly rather boring game.
    Ah, we're at the 'pretend its surprising that people get excited at sporting contests despite humans doing so for thousands of years' stage.
    He's going to love the next thread even more then.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,149
    Mr. Eagles, does it reference the Nika revolt?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 94,885
    Scotland voted to remain part of the UK after England won the Rugby Union World Cup.

    Although that's slightly different to winning the Euros and the fact that my fellow England rugby fans, like me, are known for their humility and modesty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    Not everything is about the Union. Euro championships and world cups come along regularly so are remembered by the winners but otherwise aren't that special for others - I can't recall who won the last Euros but it was no doubt a big deal for them.

    They really dont have other significance, we dont need to hunt down and crowbar in our other obsessions, it just looks weird.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    The true nature of the Cult of Boris is revealed by the FREEDOM DAY nonsense. "We'e doing this to get things back to normal" they say, which means that you should go on the tube into the office and buy £4 coffees and eat out and pack 64 of you into the steam railway coach that was posted on here yesterday as an example of an organisation desperate for normal because £.

    As now multiple polls show, the public aren't as stupid as the PM or as gung-ho as some on here. They aren't going into the office crushed in on the tube now because they and their businesses have realised the pointlessness of it. They aren't buying £4 twatty coffees because they're shit value for money. They aren't packing into steam railways seats because they'e now risk aware.

    Lifting pretty much all restrictions won't change this. Nor will the government's increasingly shouty pronouncements to get back to work you plebs. Yes, some people will deploy their natural baseline anger and arrogance to not care but half of them never stopped.

    So when the bums don't appear onto steam railway seats, the financial support won't be there to keep them going - the reverse in fact as loans start getting called back in. The government will say "we have freed the public, if they aren't coming it must be your fault". The NHS being swamped again by not just Covid but the sheer number of staff absent and the 13m case backlog in non-covid is, we will be told, nothing to worry about.

    This is the best case scenario. Lack of business, lack of staff, lack of support, blame the people. The worst case is all that then reimposition of "never again" restrictions because Omega is tearing through the vaccine. And all the time the Tories sneering, arrogant and increasingly angry that the plebs aren't doing what their betters have told them to, applying "common sense" in a way that best maximises revenues for their patrons and donors.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 94,885

    Mr. Eagles, does it reference the Nika revolt?

    No, but it does contain a different classic history reference.

    Actually it had two, but I've had to cull one as the Daily Star have nicked mine.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1413964748287266819
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,700

    Charles said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    It’s a shame you can’t enjoy your friends and partners in England doing well
    I’m enjoying every minute Charles.

    N'interrompez jamais un ennemi qui est en train de faire une erreur.
    You must have been really annoyed at the Scottish team doing its best to not follow this advice.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    The true nature of the Cult of Boris is revealed by the FREEDOM DAY nonsense. "We'e doing this to get things back to normal" they say, which means that you should go on the tube into the office and buy £4 coffees and eat out and pack 64 of you into the steam railway coach that was posted on here yesterday as an example of an organisation desperate for normal because £.

    As now multiple polls show, the public aren't as stupid as the PM or as gung-ho as some on here. They aren't going into the office crushed in on the tube now because they and their businesses have realised the pointlessness of it. They aren't buying £4 twatty coffees because they're shit value for money. They aren't packing into steam railways seats because they'e now risk aware.

    Lifting pretty much all restrictions won't change this. Nor will the government's increasingly shouty pronouncements to get back to work you plebs. Yes, some people will deploy their natural baseline anger and arrogance to not care but half of them never stopped.

    So when the bums don't appear onto steam railway seats, the financial support won't be there to keep them going - the reverse in fact as loans start getting called back in. The government will say "we have freed the public, if they aren't coming it must be your fault". The NHS being swamped again by not just Covid but the sheer number of staff absent and the 13m case backlog in non-covid is, we will be told, nothing to worry about.

    This is the best case scenario. Lack of business, lack of staff, lack of support, blame the people. The worst case is all that then reimposition of "never again" restrictions because Omega is tearing through the vaccine. And all the time the Tories sneering, arrogant and increasingly angry that the plebs aren't doing what their betters have told them to, applying "common sense" in a way that best maximises revenues for their patrons and donors.

    You are Victor Meldrew.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,538

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    Why do you think England winning will help on the road to the dissolution of the Union? I should say that nothing would please me more than a dissolution of the Union if you could rejoin the EU. I'd become Scottish in a heartbeat. I loathe the ugly isolationist country we've become. They're even talking about Liz Truss for PM!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744

    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    No it isn't.

    The right thing to do is get vaccinated.

    Lots of people cannot wear masks or do not wish to. That's fine. It's personal freedom and the chances of a vaccinated person spreading this thing to others and them then dying from this (when they are already themselves presumably wearing a mask in their concern) is beyond miniscule.

    Vaccinated people should now do what they want and everyone telling them otherwise can fuck off.

    The precise words I will use to anyone who tells me otherwise.
    What is increasingly funny is the way that the forrin have the gall to start telling upstanding considerate people like your good self where to go. We're about to lift restrictions on travel, and yet we have forrin countries not listening and applying their own restrictions. Who do they think they are? Telling you that you aren't welcome to come to their low-infection country from Boris's plague island?

    "Its a disaster for the travel industry!" screams the travel industry as the shutters start to come down in reaction to our let-her-rip petri dish experiment with our sub-standard lack of digital vaccine passport. Yes, I know it is. And its entirely self-inflicted.

    These people making decisions where they think that your actions are profoundly stupid and selfish. They all should fuck off, but at the same time not fuck off and let you in their country and into their shop and even into their hospital unmasked and resplendent.

    Actually, "fuck off" would make a great strapline for the next Tory party Conference set.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    moonshine said:

    murali_s said:

    A simple point about masks. They may not protect you but they protect others.

    Wearing a mask in a crowded indoor environment such as public transport is the right thing to do.

    Those others have turned down the chance of a free and highly safe/efficacious vaccine that several billion others on this planet are crying out for.

    If you must leave the house while harbouring a viral infection, then wearing a mask and not snotting on everyone is polite.

    Expecting people to wear a mask when they are not ill is at this point an unreasonable imposition.
    I think this is the key - legally required measures are an extreme imposition of state power and has to be proportionate to the risk. Is it now proportionate to require people to wear a mask?

    Some will say yes, and that's a valid view. Others say no, and that's valid too. If people want to encourage it now, or even forever, well, they can argue that too, but at some point mandated measures are an unreasonable imposition and personal choice prevails. Sooner or later choice has to return.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 25,169
    Interesting piece on how ineffective isolation of contacts has been. Only 10% get it and average being told 4 days later, which is probably too late.

    In today's Weekly Stats Uncovered, @d_spiegel and I look at the statistics behind case contacts going into quarantine.
    https://t.co/JIIRw51AD5

    Though as a shared household, I thought it reasonable to self isolate when Mrs Foxy had it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 29,568

    The true nature of the Cult of Boris is revealed by the FREEDOM DAY nonsense. "We'e doing this to get things back to normal" they say, which means that you should go on the tube into the office and buy £4 coffees and eat out and pack 64 of you into the steam railway coach that was posted on here yesterday as an example of an organisation desperate for normal because £.

    As now multiple polls show, the public aren't as stupid as the PM or as gung-ho as some on here. They aren't going into the office crushed in on the tube now because they and their businesses have realised the pointlessness of it. They aren't buying £4 twatty coffees because they're shit value for money. They aren't packing into steam railways seats because they'e now risk aware.

    Lifting pretty much all restrictions won't change this. Nor will the government's increasingly shouty pronouncements to get back to work you plebs. Yes, some people will deploy their natural baseline anger and arrogance to not care but half of them never stopped.

    So when the bums don't appear onto steam railway seats, the financial support won't be there to keep them going - the reverse in fact as loans start getting called back in. The government will say "we have freed the public, if they aren't coming it must be your fault". The NHS being swamped again by not just Covid but the sheer number of staff absent and the 13m case backlog in non-covid is, we will be told, nothing to worry about.

    This is the best case scenario. Lack of business, lack of staff, lack of support, blame the people. The worst case is all that then reimposition of "never again" restrictions because Omega is tearing through the vaccine. And all the time the Tories sneering, arrogant and increasingly angry that the plebs aren't doing what their betters have told them to, applying "common sense" in a way that best maximises revenues for their patrons and donors.

    A lot of words to say "I hate Boris". 😴
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    Cav won't be doping. Objectively he is helped by the fact he has little historic class competition for sprints this year, and a great lead out setup relative to his competition. It's a bit like Djokovic in the tennis wrt sprinting in a grand tour
    And Boris has been filmed loads of times on a bike, once even after breaking the Covid rules to ride in Stratford.
    Except that he probably did not do so. Even the Guardian did not convince itself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/pm-under-pressure-over-bike-ride-seven-miles-from-no-10-boris-johnson-covid

    That's another repeat-in-the-mirror-until-you-believe-it one.

    What's all this "cycling gear" that is being chuntered about. If you're not in the TDF or similar, you get on a bike and ride it.

    Go for BJ all you like; however he has had a huge role in promoting ordinary non-stick-insect people to use bikes.
    Have you actually read that Guardian article to which you refer?
    1 - You refer to "rules", which did not exist. There were Regulations (law) and Guidance (er ... guidance, or 'advice' as it described itself).
    2 - Exercise was mainly under guidance, unless you have a citation of the Regulations at the time you insist Boris broke something.

    You were saying?

    Driving seven miles to take exercise was the issue, not the exercise itself.

    One day later the G switched to a description of "Johnson’s cycle ride to the Olympic Park on Sunday", so they couldn't make even that stick by the look of it by day two.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/12/boris-johnsons-bike-ride-a-storm-in-a-teacup-or-eroding-public-confidence

    7 miles on a bicycle is about 30-35 minues, especially somewhere as flat as London. That is local.
    Seven miles was local once they'd rescinded the fines dished out to the women who drove a mere five miles to exercise, lower down in the piece.
    Sounds like a correct decision, should never have been given.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,700
    edited July 11

    I just hope that we don't get the stories about abuse of opposition supporters that we had after the Denmark game. Must be difficult being in a 10-1 minority.
    Also that any booing is confined to when Boris Johnson stands up. Not when the Italian anthem is played.

    England is after all, the host for this game.

    Of course we will get the stories. There will be boo-ing. By the usual minority. And the press will write about it. And UEFA will issue a larger fine than they are already going to do.

    The thing is there's no good way to drown out boo-ing during a national anthem*. Short of doing so by singing the national anthem louder. Which isn't really an option given that you can't expect England fans to sing the Italian anthem, or at least not since they don't know the words.

    *Normally it can be drowned out (or at least the disapproval of the majority can be expressed) by applause or something - but drowning out during an anthem with applause isn't really a solution. Because it still drowns out the anthem. Which is the point of the boo-ing.

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