Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

If Gareth Southgate was a party leader his ratings would ensure his party won a landslide – politica

14567810»

Comments

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    We should do as Australia does. Rescue and deport them instantly.

    Only that will stop the drownings.

    We should bring in our fair share of asylum seekers from safe and legal routes, not via a Darwinian "if you don't die getting here first" process.
    Problem is you can’t deport them immediately if they have no papers and they have the right to claim asylum.

    But you could rent space in a Danish processing facility and send them offshore until their case is heard.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    So why do you support the bill?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Often overlooked by his opponents & critics:

    Politics is a visual business, and Boris Johnson understands the power of images

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1414123502790225925?s=20

    Roger, as an advertising chap should understand. A constant refrain of my career in marketing was PUT IT IN THE PICTURES not the words......
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Prediction - there will be violence tonight, that’s obvious

    The combo of an England final, Wembley, plus a year of plague and lockdown, makes it inevitable. I can hear chants and singing in Camden already. People want to partayyy

    However, if England win the violence will be glossed over. Expect terms like ‘boyish horseplay’, ‘a few arrests’, ‘high spirits’, and so forth. If England lose, there might be a couple of stabbings, there will definitely be an orgy of Guardian think-pieces about ‘the ugly side of Englishness’.

    You have a very peculiar interest in football violence. It really is not big and it is not clever, and it really doesn't need to be glorified. Call it what it is, unacceptable criminality.

    As a teenager in the dangerous world of 1970s stadium attendeeship, I only twice found myself enveloped by football hooliganism. At a West Brom v Birmingham City First Division game at St. Andrews in 1976 we were challenged by a Bluenose to show our scarves which were hidden in our coat pockets. One friend, an Evertonian showed his scarf and we were allowed on our way. Later that same season at the Hereford United v Blackpool Division 2 game at Edgar Street I found myself chased through the cattle market by hundred of tangerine wearing yobbos, hurling bricks and bottles. As I turned into the safety of Commercial Street, I understood that this was all too dangerous, and although I didn't realise it at the time, my long history of wokery began.
    lol. I'm just stating a fact. This is not a "peculiar interest in football violence"

    Weirdly, I may have been in the exact same stramash as you! Hereford V Blackpool

    Do you remember the day Wolves came to town, and smashed it up?
    I kept well clear of the Wolves match that same season. Legend has it that High Town was brutalised.
    It was, I saw it. Mayhem

    Actually quite scary
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    MattW said:

    2 - Any recommendations for a decent film as a alternative to this effing football game? Debate (here and elsewhere) seems to be contempt/confrontation-driven. No longer interested.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_to_Victory

    :lol::lol:

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    2 - Any recommendations for a decent film as a alternative to this effing football game? Debate (here and elsewhere) seems to be contempt/confrontation-driven. No longer interested.

    Bill & Ted 3
    That was pretty awful
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Leon said:

    Camden update.

    Vintage cars driving around with horns and vuvuzelas and England flags

    I was on Mersea earlier - people were claiming the best tables in one place from 11 am!!!!!!!

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Prediction - there will be violence tonight, that’s obvious

    The combo of an England final, Wembley, plus a year of plague and lockdown, makes it inevitable. I can hear chants and singing in Camden already. People want to partayyy

    However, if England win the violence will be glossed over. Expect terms like ‘boyish horseplay’, ‘a few arrests’, ‘high spirits’, and so forth. If England lose, there might be a couple of stabbings, there will definitely be an orgy of Guardian think-pieces about ‘the ugly side of Englishness’.

    You have a very peculiar interest in football violence. It really is not big and it is not clever, and it really doesn't need to be glorified. Call it what it is, unacceptable criminality.

    As a teenager in the dangerous world of 1970s stadium attendeeship, I only twice found myself enveloped by football hooliganism. At a West Brom v Birmingham City First Division game at St. Andrews in 1976 we were challenged by a Bluenose to show our scarves which were hidden in our coat pockets. One friend, an Evertonian showed his scarf and we were allowed on our way. Later that same season at the Hereford United v Blackpool Division 2 game at Edgar Street I found myself chased through the cattle market by hundred of tangerine wearing yobbos, hurling bricks and bottles. As I turned into the safety of Commercial Street, I understood that this was all too dangerous, and although I didn't realise it at the time, my long history of wokery began.
    I'm not particularly interested in football but football violence is an interesting subject.
    From a sociologist's point of view it is fascinating but it is not to be glorified.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
    It doesn’t. The government has said that isn’t the intention. The wording will get cleaned up.
    By the opposition. Once the government have virtue signalled to their base that they are sympathetic to the endless "let them drown" comments that always get posted when the Nigel goes out on his dinghy.

    You and I both know how bills gets drafted. This isn't a whoopsie.
    Usually sloppily because they rely on committee to clean them up.

    A general rule that I have found very useful in life is “never ascribe to malice what can satisfactorily be explained by incompetence”
    ...like the withdrawal bill?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    2 - Any recommendations for a decent film as a alternative to this effing football game? Debate (here and elsewhere) seems to be contempt/confrontation-driven. No longer interested.

    Bill & Ted 3
    That was pretty awful
    Totally bogus.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Charles said:

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    We should do as Australia does. Rescue and deport them instantly.

    Only that will stop the drownings.

    We should bring in our fair share of asylum seekers from safe and legal routes, not via a Darwinian "if you don't die getting here first" process.
    Problem is you can’t deport them immediately if they have no papers and they have the right to claim asylum.

    But you could rent space in a Danish processing facility and send them offshore until their case is heard.
    Yes that's the first thing we should do. Have an offshore location in Mauritius or somewhere like that where they'll be processed and immediately send them there. Don't let them spend any time in the UK.

    That will save lives.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    These guys were people smugglers? Please tell me more.
    I believe I saw an article to that effect yes
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust (obscure).

    1 - Why is this export of apples to India suddenly a big issue wrt to Trade Deals. Can anyone explain why they were banned before? Poland and others have been exporting 10s of thousands of tons a year.

    Presentational pratfall?

    2 - Any recommendations for a decent film as a alternative to this effing football game? Debate (here and elsewhere) seems to be contempt/confrontation-driven. No longer interested.

    You can't go wrong with Columbo.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    I applaud both you and your relative, thank God some boris fanboys have a conscience.
    You've not shown any without.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Does anyone actually think that asylum seekers is such a big issue that must further criminalise people attempting to help them?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Totally bogus.

    NO WAY !!!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    No - you are twisting a story to play into your narrative and to add to it you highlight children

    You disgust me

    The *RNLI* are "twisting" the story as their volunteers like your brave son face arrest prosecution and jail for doing their jobs.
    No they are not.

    Lots of anti-government campaigners have said that the government is nasty.

    The government has said that the accusations are not true because that’s not their intention.

    The RNLI has said “whatever, we are going to rescue anyone who needs help”. They haven’t got involved in the politics
    The last bit doesn't mean much as it is illegal now for charities to be involved in politics.
    @RochdalePioneers was claiming the RNLI was in alignment with his views.

    He was factually incorrect.
    He didn't say the RNLI were agreeing with him. He said that the RNLI were not happy at the threat of prosecution.
    No he argued that @Big_G_NorthWales was implying the RNLI was “twisting” the story. Which they weren’t.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    So why do you support the bill?
    Do you think people smuggling should be a crime? Even if profit can't be proven?

    Not rescuing people, smuggling them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Does anyone actually think that asylum seekers is such a big issue that must further criminalise people attempting to help them?

    What I don't like is having laws that aren't observed. Either change the law, or enforce it.
  • I hate football precisely because of the kinds of people it attracts.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    So why do you support the bill?
    I support stopping migrants taking perilous journeys across the Channel putting at risk their lives and the crews of the RNLI

    The RNLI issue will be resolved as has already been commented on by others
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    This is weird. NHS doc tweeted that she had tired eyes, as she confronted another full Covid ICU ward, all over again

    Then someone went and checked, and it was revealed as a lie

    She has deleted the tweet and now protected her account

    https://twitter.com/amygriff36
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gary Imlach was amusing last night on the TdF highlights. Commenting on the phenomenal story of Mark Cavendish* who has equalled the great Eddie Merckx's record of 34 stage wins in the Tour de France, Imlach said it had gone under the radar in the UK, relative to the football coverage. He wasn't complaining about that, or surprised about it, but added that:

    At least we haven't had to witness the Prime Minister dressed up in cycling gear.

    Indeed.

    * Always assuming and hoping of course that Cavendish isn't fuelled by naughty sauce.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Cavendish will be remembered worldwide by the cycling community for at least a century to come, probably much longer. Even if England win tomorrow, only the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish will remember it, because of the constant media drone we’ll all be subjected to, à la 1966.

    Assuming he’s not on the sauce, Cavendish will be remembered as a great sportsman.
    Assuming the English win tonight, their achievement will not be remembered primarily as a sporting achievement, but as another step on the road to the dissolution of the Union.
    What rubbish, the fact England got all the way to the final while Scotland and Wales got knocked out in the early stages might boost English nationalism a bit, especially if England win, as it would show England would be a strong nation even on its own but I doubt it would make any difference to Scottish independence. If you are a Scottish Nationalist you hated England and its sporting teams before the tournament and still do and if you are a Scottish Unionist you happily supported Scotland and will wish England well tonight too.

    However I am looking forward to the British Lions tour and Olympics later this month when as Scots or English we can once again support the same team
    The problem with you FUDHY is that you understand neo-Unionism (and are an invaluable source of information on that movement), but you are utterly clueless about all other important blocs:

    1. traditional Unionism of the sort that has kept the Union clinging on this last half century, ie the SLab/SLD/civic-Scotland axis

    2. the Scottish independence movement

    3. and most importantly, ordinary Scots
    The 55% of Scots who voted No in 2014 are not that bothered either way whether England win or lose tonight but will politely wish them well.

    It is only the 45% of Scots who voted Yes like you who absolutely despise the England team and are praying for an Italy win, as demonstrated by the headline in the National
    Ahem...

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7347681/scotland-fans-england-euro-2020-poll/

    My own guess would be that the Scottish population falls roughly into thirds.

    -One third still thinks of itself as either primarily or secondarily British, is broadly friendly and will wish us (the English) well
    -One third thinks of itself as only Scottish and, whilst not actively hostile, regards England as its main rival and will support anyone but England in anything
    -The final third hates us
    My father belonged to that first third you name: proudly British, pro-monarchy (one of his proudest possessions was a press photo of him showing HMQ round his workplace), did his bit during the war. He couldn’t stand any English sports team or individual sportsperson. The air was blue when an England football or rugby team took the field. He also detested what Margaret Thatcher did to the civil service and NHS (despite voting for Malcolm Rifkind as his MP).
    Folk are funny.

    A lot of die-hard Unionists will be supporting Italy tonight.
    A lot of Scottish sovereignty supporters will want to see an English victory.
    Typical of the pathetic attitude that they actually believe a third of Scottish people hate the English.
    So blinkered and ignorant of reality in their little jingistic bubbles.
    I've lived here in my little Buchan village for 5 months now. I haven't exactly hidden myself under a stone and have heard literally one single anti-English comment, and even that as much anti-woman as English.

    There are nobbers wherever you go. But whatever visceral hatred of me there is for not being born here, I haven't seen or heard it. Unlike the abuse that was so ingrained into the "parochial bigotry" of my former small North Yorkshire town against anyone who wasn't born and raised there.

    Without wanting to reopen this morning's quite funny "attacks" on me (bless), there is a definite compare and contrast between my new country who has a pro-migration policy and my old country now making it illegal to rescue a drowning migrant child.
    You seem to be a big fan of extrapolating individual experience into a diatribe against an entire national culture - that's what gets peoples' back up, as you treat your conclusion as proven fact not opinion.

    I've never seen or heard any such abuse in my town in 30+ yearts, but I did see one incident when I was in Leicester for 4 years - should I decide Leicester is a more bigoted place from that? Certainly not.

    No, I treat my anecdotes as anecdotes, as I'm sure yours are.

    My point stands. England is passing a law to make it illegal to assist migrants. To stop the lifeboats pulling drowning kids out of the water. Do I think that England is a more bigoted country towards migration than pro-migration Scotland? Doesn't the policy make that reality?
    My son has just joined the RNLI and if you think they are going to let anyone drown then you are totally out of order and de facto attacking the RNLI service

    My son will put his life on line to save life at sea and your political hatred disgusts me
    Wowsers. I am not attacking your son you buffoon. I am attacking the law which makes his saving certain lives at sea a criminal offence.
    It doesn’t. The government has said that isn’t the intention. The wording will get cleaned up.
    By the opposition. Once the government have virtue signalled to their base that they are sympathetic to the endless "let them drown" comments that always get posted when the Nigel goes out on his dinghy.

    You and I both know how bills gets drafted. This isn't a whoopsie.
    Usually sloppily because they rely on committee to clean them up.

    A general rule that I have found very useful in life is “never ascribe to malice what can satisfactorily be explained by incompetence”
    Undoubtedly, but only as a general rule.

    The textual changes are, erm, interesting. Especially the deletion of 'and for gain' in a critical clause. That's an active deletion.


    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/07/priti-patel-making-it-illegal-uk-rescue-asylum-seekers
    The “for gain” deletion is entirely reasonable. The sloppy bit was not providing a safe harbour for the RNLI
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    I applaud both you and your relative, thank God some boris fanboys have a conscience.
    Actually if you follow my posts I am not a Boris fanboy as you suggest but support Rishi for PM
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Leon said:

    This is weird. NHS doc tweeted that she had tired eyes, as she confronted another full Covid ICU ward, all over again

    Then someone went and checked, and it was revealed as a lie

    She has deleted the tweet and now protected her account

    https://twitter.com/amygriff36

    Some kind of false-memory event?
  • dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    I applaud both you and your relative, thank God some boris fanboys have a conscience.
    Actually if you follow my posts I am not a Boris fanboy as you suggest but support Rishi for PM
    No you're absolutely not. You just support and agree with everything BoJo does and says
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,359

    I hate football precisely because of the kinds of people it attracts.

    People use exactly that argument in an attempt to discredit left-wing politics on the basis that some people who claim to be left-wing are horrible antisemites.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    No, that has not been observed by others.
    You’re just clinging into that because you won’t defend the indefensible.

    Poor show, Big G.
  • I hate football precisely because of the kinds of people it attracts.

    People use exactly that argument in an attempt to discredit left-wing politics on the basis that some people who claim to be left-wing are horrible antisemites.
    Trying my absolute best to remain positive about the match but I'm really struggling now.

    Staying at home, I don't want to be a part of this
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    So why do you support the bill?
    Do you think people smuggling should be a crime? Even if profit can't be proven?

    Not rescuing people, smuggling them.
    I do not favour any law which can be applied to people rescuing asylum seekers.
  • I should have said *some of above, I didn't mean to say football people in general are like this, apologies for that
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    edited July 2021

    I hate football precisely because of the kinds of people it attracts.

    I thought you liked Jeremy Corbyn and Keir Starmer?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited July 2021

    NEW THREAD

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    I applaud both you and your relative, thank God some boris fanboys have a conscience.
    Actually if you follow my posts I am not a Boris fanboy as you suggest but support Rishi for PM
    No you're absolutely not. You just support and agree with everything BoJo does and says
    No

    I am a conservative member and support HMG as the best for covid, brexit and the economy and Rishi as PM would be excellent
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    This thread has sunk and not been rescued because of legal liability concerns.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited July 2021

    Does anyone actually think that asylum seekers is such a big issue that must further criminalise people attempting to help them?

    Asylum-seeker: "I NEED to go to the nearest safe country."

    Non-Asylum-seeker: "I WANT to go the UK, because, er, I WANT to!"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    Greece reports 1,465 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 137% from last week
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    These guys were people smugglers? Please tell me more.
    I believe I saw an article to that effect yes
    A link please else I’ll put you down for malice and incompetence.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    I applaud both you and your relative, thank God some boris fanboys have a conscience.
    You've not shown any without.
    I let people's words speak for themselves...:)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    Ha Ha , they don't let your SS helpers get away with turfing out immigrants as easily in Scotland. No doubt tehy will be treble handed next time they come though. Good old Tory lies.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    i thought these were asylum seekers not modern slavers
    Of course they were , Charles lying blatantly in support of his heroes.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    How about we allow the asylum seekers in to start picking our fruit in the fields, at least in the short term, until their cases can be heard. I'm sure the farmers would appreciate that as well.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    These guys were people smugglers? Please tell me more.
    TUD, they had brown skin , must be wrong un's surely to a Hooray Henry
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    No - you are twisting a story to play into your narrative and to add to it you highlight children

    You disgust me

    The *RNLI* are "twisting" the story as their volunteers like your brave son face arrest prosecution and jail for doing their jobs.
    No they are not.

    Lots of anti-government campaigners have said that the government is nasty.

    The government has said that the accusations are not true because that’s not their intention.

    The RNLI has said “whatever, we are going to rescue anyone who needs help”. They haven’t got involved in the politics
    The last bit doesn't mean much as it is illegal now for charities to be involved in politics.
    @RochdalePioneers was claiming the RNLI was in alignment with his views.

    He was factually incorrect.
    You are economical with eth truth and did not read his post , desperation to defend your chums.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    dixiedean said:

    So. If I, innocently swimming off the coast of Kent, find another person in distress, and drag them to the shore, perform CPR and water them and keep them warm, I can be prosecuted?
    Unless they are a UK citizen. In which case I am a hero?
    I'd be in the tabloids either way.

    It is nonsense
    More likely if you were in a yacht in the channel and came across a dinghy full of asylum seekers and you rescued them, as per the International Law of the Sea, and then turned them in to the police in Dover, you would have a lot of explaining to do, it may involve a night in the cells until a solicitor could get you out. You would definately get arrested as you will ahve broken the law.
    An unseaworthy dinghy crammed with asylum seekers adheres to the International Law of the Sea??
    It doesn't matter what you are being rescued from, people have been rescued from rowing boats, surfboards, liferafts.

    I often wonder whether any boris fanboys on PB will actually rescue any asylum seekers, or just condemn them to drown. I think us normal conscientious people deserve an answer to that question. (I won't mention names)
    Your last sentence does not need a response from the vast majority of us who would rescue anyone at sea at anytime and anyplace

    Indeed my son in laws father, as chief engineer on a trans Atlantic ship, took charge of a major rescue of crew from a sinking ship in mid Atlantic
    So why do you support the bill?
    It is a TORY bill, that is sufficient
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    These guys were people smugglers? Please tell me more.
    TUD, they had brown skin , must be wrong un's surely to a Hooray Henry
    But Charles saw an article which I’m sure will back up his unquestioning devotion to Priti and the Tories.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    These guys were people smugglers? Please tell me more.
    I believe I saw an article to that effect yes
    A link please else I’ll put you down for malice and incompetence.
    TUD it will be in the ETON weekly, shocked by those scurrilous Scots and the insurrection.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited July 2021
    .
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    On illegal immigration:

    I'd like to set outside the actual immigrants for a moment, and consider the real criminals in this: the people who take money from the immigrants, then put them into unsuitable craft, often uncrewed, for journeys that kill many of them.

    We need to really tackle the people smugglers, and that needs international action as their actions are international. Yet not much appears to be being done.

    Personally, I'd like to cut the b******d's balls off, then throw them into the waters where they have committed so many innocents.

    Nationally, we can strike at the modern slavers who take advantage of so many immigrants. A lifetime of indentured servitude washing cars or working in male brothels should be a suitable sentence for them...

    And yet when the Home Office/police try to arrest 2 of them lots of Scot Nationalstd gather around and make it impossible
    These guys were people smugglers? Please tell me more.
    I believe I saw an article to that effect yes
    Top class citation.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If they were people smugglers it would have been the police going in.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I hate football precisely because of the kinds of people it attracts.

    People use exactly that argument in an attempt to discredit left-wing politics on the basis that some people who claim to be left-wing are horrible antisemites.
    Not true whatsoever.

    The issue over left-wing horrible antisemites came to the fore when the Labour party chose to elect as its leader one of those horrible antisemites. And when horrible antisemites took key positions in the leadership of the party throughout.

    The horrible antisemites had been there throughout, and some still are, but the issue isn't at the fore anymore now that Labour isn't led by a horrible antisemite.

    Funny how that works.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    MattW said:

    2 - Any recommendations for a decent film as a alternative to this effing football game? Debate (here and elsewhere) seems to be contempt/confrontation-driven. No longer interested.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_to_Victory

    :lol::lol:

    Ipswich Town beat the Nazis, what’s not to like? TBF a few of the squad actually played the Nazis but I don’t tend to dwell on that bit…
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    Could just do like my local where the normal residents have just decided not to let the police in...if they can;t get in they can't prove anything and they can fuck off
This discussion has been closed.