Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him.
Except as the polling has shown people are generally cautious, so surely if it was about ratings more than anything else he would be more cautious about freedom day? So presumably it must have been taken for other reasons?
Pret.
Government policy has been guided by the interests of a chain of sandwich shops above all else.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
But, given your age, your chances of being severely ill - from anything - are elevated, anyway. That was true pre-COVID
This is not a personal attack. At some point all of us are gonna have to accept a heightened level of risk, if we want a ‘normal’ life. This virus probably isn’t going away. It might remain moderately lethal - like a very nasty flu - for many years, it could even get worse.
Flu didn’t make you stay home or ‘only eat outside’. So why this?
Of course if you accept severe limitations on your life, that’s fair. But that’s your choice. I have a close family member recovering from cancer who is now essentially self isolating again. Zero social life. No-one indoors. This is 16 months into the plague
To me it seems overly timorous. Because there is no end, potentially. And hers is not a life well lived, right now
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
In which case if you wish to be that cautious that is your right but it means there will never be Freedom Day for you. You will always wear a mask and always prefer to eat and attend events outdoors rather than indoors.
That will mean you avoid the flu like symptoms you can still get from Covid even after being vaccinated but for me once double vaccinated I know the chance of death or hospitalisation is near eliminated from Covid so after my second jab I will largely proceed as I was before the pandemic, bar a bit more working from home and wearing a mask on the tube in winter
Patronising to the point of absurdity.
In fairness, he is - I guess - rather half the age of OKC, and if so it's not absurd from HIS point of view.
But it's an interesting point, though, that if this is so then most Tory voters are older - and some a lot older - than HYUFD. If the penny ever drops in the same way as it has for OKC - that vaccination's benefits are in part outweighed by the release of behavioral controls - then that has interesting electoral implications.
The true nature of the Cult of Boris is revealed by the FREEDOM DAY nonsense. "We'e doing this to get things back to normal" they say, which means that you should go on the tube into the office and buy £4 coffees and eat out and pack 64 of you into the steam railway coach that was posted on here yesterday as an example of an organisation desperate for normal because £.
As now multiple polls show, the public aren't as stupid as the PM or as gung-ho as some on here. They aren't going into the office crushed in on the tube now because they and their businesses have realised the pointlessness of it. They aren't buying £4 twatty coffees because they're shit value for money. They aren't packing into steam railways seats because they'e now risk aware.
Lifting pretty much all restrictions won't change this. Nor will the government's increasingly shouty pronouncements to get back to work you plebs. Yes, some people will deploy their natural baseline anger and arrogance to not care but half of them never stopped.
So when the bums don't appear onto steam railway seats, the financial support won't be there to keep them going - the reverse in fact as loans start getting called back in. The government will say "we have freed the public, if they aren't coming it must be your fault". The NHS being swamped again by not just Covid but the sheer number of staff absent and the 13m case backlog in non-covid is, we will be told, nothing to worry about.
This is the best case scenario. Lack of business, lack of staff, lack of support, blame the people. The worst case is all that then reimposition of "never again" restrictions because Omega is tearing through the vaccine. And all the time the Tories sneering, arrogant and increasingly angry that the plebs aren't doing what their betters have told them to, applying "common sense" in a way that best maximises revenues for their patrons and donors.
You do have a bleak outlook on just about everything don’t you
The Victor Meldrew comparison this morning is really spot on
I will take such observations from you two under advisement. I note that nobody is even trying to show that what I am posting isn't true. Play the man, not the ball...
I think presuming if people don't counter what a poster says that they are conceding that poster is correct is an unlikely position.
I agree. I just find Max and his ilk to be quite entertaining when they find themselves moved to type a "yawn" response instead of just scrolling on. What I think doesn't matter for shit- I don't even live in England any more so it doesn't affect me either way. But the majority of people south of the wall also think like me as shown now by multiple polls.
When Freedom Day doesn't pan out as the clown apologists want, it won't be because of what I think. It will be because of what the majority do.
You pretend to be a "Liberal" Democrat and just want nothing but illiberalism just to see Boris fail.
It seems like a decent start as the fat fuckstain is easily the most illiberal post-war PM.
Don't be ridiculous.
If you're including Covid restrictions then those are wartime equivalent restrictions, right or wrong.
If you're not including those, then there's no realistic way to say that.
Quite a compelling essay on Wokeness and Britain, by Frank Luntz
“Labour voters are much more likely to say that Britain is racist, unequal and generally broken. Unlike Tory voters, they believe that the political and economic system are stacked against them.
“Among those who think they know what Woke means, more Labour voters would say they are very or totally Woke than not, and more would say they are proud to be Woke than reject it as divisive – the opposite of the public as a whole.
“But the most alarming finding is when you break down the country by age. The people who told us that Britain is institutionally racist and discriminatory were overwhelmingly the young.”
And:
“What, you will ask, can you do about Woke? How can you and your Government ensure that Britain doesn’t go the way of America?
“And there are two answers to that. The first is a bad one. It’s to do what Donald Trump did. Turn everything into a culture war. Stoke up bitterness and division. It’s a trench-warfare approach to politics that can yield short-term electoral gains but no long-term solutions.
“I’ve seen where it leads. In America now, I can’t even put Republicans and Democrats in the same focus group. Within a few minutes, someone will say: ‘How can you say that?’ And five minutes later, it’s anarchy.
“You might not believe it but your country is different. It is better. It is civil. I’ve done focus groups here with Labour and Tory voters and they disagree on many things. But they’re polite. They listen. They respond. You don’t want to lose that. You can’t.”
Forced choice questions of that type lack nuance. It's possible to believe (and most people likely do believe) that the UK is a mostly, free, fair, and prosperous society, yet at the same time to acknowledge some people suffer unjust discrimination.
And, even among the youngest age cohort, 43% agree that the UK is fair. That proportion will rise as they get older.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
I agree. As I posted yesterday evening, my attitude has changed since becoming double jabbed.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
I suspect that mask wearing guidance will be retained in hospitals and medical settings and on crowded public transport
The vast majority of the public will behave responsibly and I just do not see any real enforcement is taking place at present even though it is mandated
For clarity do you expect that tomorrow's announcement will include the change in expectations to continue to mandate masks in hospitals? Because at the moment it doesn't.
I expect it to be included in the guidance issued tomorrow
Not what I asked. Do you expect it to be excluded from the general mask-ditching rule change? Remember that @Cocky_cockney et al are ready to tell people to fuck off if they ask them to wear a mask. He was open enough to post what he thinks, he isn't alone, and your "guidance" won't make it happen.
Unless the government maintains the requirement to wear masks, there are always going to be some wazzocks who think its ok to stroll coughing and unmasked into hospital because Boris says so.
The true nature of the Cult of Boris is revealed by the FREEDOM DAY nonsense. "We'e doing this to get things back to normal" they say, which means that you should go on the tube into the office and buy £4 coffees and eat out and pack 64 of you into the steam railway coach that was posted on here yesterday as an example of an organisation desperate for normal because £.
As now multiple polls show, the public aren't as stupid as the PM or as gung-ho as some on here. They aren't going into the office crushed in on the tube now because they and their businesses have realised the pointlessness of it. They aren't buying £4 twatty coffees because they're shit value for money. They aren't packing into steam railways seats because they'e now risk aware.
Lifting pretty much all restrictions won't change this. Nor will the government's increasingly shouty pronouncements to get back to work you plebs. Yes, some people will deploy their natural baseline anger and arrogance to not care but half of them never stopped.
So when the bums don't appear onto steam railway seats, the financial support won't be there to keep them going - the reverse in fact as loans start getting called back in. The government will say "we have freed the public, if they aren't coming it must be your fault". The NHS being swamped again by not just Covid but the sheer number of staff absent and the 13m case backlog in non-covid is, we will be told, nothing to worry about.
This is the best case scenario. Lack of business, lack of staff, lack of support, blame the people. The worst case is all that then reimposition of "never again" restrictions because Omega is tearing through the vaccine. And all the time the Tories sneering, arrogant and increasingly angry that the plebs aren't doing what their betters have told them to, applying "common sense" in a way that best maximises revenues for their patrons and donors.
The UK government are prisoners of their own Freedom Day rhetoric. If you declare freedom while an epidemic rages, you are declaring freedom to infect and be infected. They should have kept the discussion to what's needed and what works.
I don't the think the most anti-business of any government since Atlee (but without Atlee's great achievements) is particularly concerned about the welfare of Starbucks and railway companies.
Isn't "Freedom Day" an invention of the press? I certainly haven't heard Johnson say it, but I admit I could have missed it.
Mostly yes. They’ve exaggerated what ministers have said, and are pushing hard for everyone to go completely nuts next Monday. Which of course, is exactly what’s not required when there’s still a nasty virus going around.
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
You pretend to be a "Liberal" Democrat and just want nothing but illiberalism just to see Boris fail.
No I don't think that's what the public will think.
The share of the public demanding full restrictions is in freefall and quite right too. Its already nearly at crossover, after 19/7 it will crossover.
I can't speak for @RochdalePioneers but this ex-LD has bene pleased to see the Party leading the way in calling for a release of restrictions and I'm happy to note a number of Conservatives in the same camp.
I'm not sure about the "freefall" comment but I've said for some time the current regime of restrictions is no longer required or viable.
The line is quite simple - we now have to let people decide for themselves (nothing illiberal about that). Provide as much information and advice as possible so those decisions can be informed. If an individual chooses to continue to take precautions, that is absolutely and fundamentally their right and we must respect that.
The last thing we need is blundering confusing "messaging" from the PM and the Cabinet and criticising that is perfectly legitimate.
In any case, a general improvement in and awareness of the value of basic health and hygiene is no bad thing - keeping transport carriages as virus-free as possible, encouraging people to wash their hands, to get vaccinated, to get tested if they show symptoms, to respect others, none of this should be controversial.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
But, given your age, your chances of being severely ill - from anything - are elevated, anyway. That was true pre-COVID
This is not a personal attack. At some point all of us are gonna have to accept a heightened level of risk, if we want a ‘normal’ life. This virus probably isn’t going away. It might remain moderately lethal - like a very nasty flu - for many years, it could even get worse.
Flu didn’t make you stay home or ‘only eat outside’. So why this?
Of course if you accept severe limitations on your life, that’s fair. But that’s your choice. I have a close family member recovering from cancer who is now essentially self isolating again. Zero social life. No-one indoors. This is 16 months into the plague
To me it seems overly timorous. Because there is no end, potentially. And hers is not a life well lived, right now
Its a horrible balancing act. Covid has destroyed people's lives not just in actually killing them or (perhaps worse) crippling them with Long Covid. Neighbour yesterday describing how someone she knows didn't cope with it all and drank paint thinner to end it.
People need light at the end of the tunnel so we can all understand the desire to "accept a heightened level of risk" - the problem largely is that the people willing to accept that risk aren't the people who are likely to die or suffer long covid. For a couple of generations we have drilled a sense of self over society into people, and having been bottled up for 16 months there's going to be a horrible clash between "fuck off" and "I don't want long covid".
Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.
Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.
A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.
Supply and demand means that when supply is limited, companies prioritise those accounts willing to pay more?
Well blow me down with a feather!
No no no, everyone is paying more. If you don't agree to pay the price for service then you don't get service. This isn't big customers out-bidding the smaller ones. Its industry doing what it does brilliantly which is fire-fighting. They can't serve everyone. So shift as much as you can - that means the trunk deliveries and the big loads.
Everyone paying more is supply and demand. 🤷♂️
Industry is doing what it does best, which is look after its own self-interests and everybody does what they need to do. Which is exactly what I told you would happen months ago.
Industry knows what to do.
Yes. It knows to short deliveries like fuck thanks to the lack of drivers.
The ones who get shorted will be the ones least willing to pay a premium. If you want your goods shifted and are willing to pay extra for it then they will be.
Just as I said would happen.
When is all this cheap food that we were promised arriving like?
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
I suspect that mask wearing guidance will be retained in hospitals and medical settings and on crowded public transport
The vast majority of the public will behave responsibly and I just do not see any real enforcement is taking place at present even though it is mandated
For clarity do you expect that tomorrow's announcement will include the change in expectations to continue to mandate masks in hospitals? Because at the moment it doesn't.
I expect it to be included in the guidance issued tomorrow
Not what I asked. Do you expect it to be excluded from the general mask-ditching rule change? Remember that @Cocky_cockney et al are ready to tell people to fuck off if they ask them to wear a mask. He was open enough to post what he thinks, he isn't alone, and your "guidance" won't make it happen.
Unless the government maintains the requirement to wear masks, there are always going to be some wazzocks who think its ok to stroll coughing and unmasked into hospital because Boris says so.
The mandating will go and be replaced with guidance and to be honest your last sentence will happen either way and nothing to do with Boris but more about some people refusing to be restricted by the state
On the football tonight I am expecting a dull if very tense game. Italy are not the same free flowing attacking side without Spinazzola, who was surely on for player of the tournament prior to his injury. Both teams have very solid defences and like to sit deep. Both are most dangerous on the counter where they can use their speed. Neither will be able to do that much. An early goal by either side forcing one of the teams to come out would greatly improve the spectacle.
England need to play a high tempo game to take advantage of their additional fitness and the age of some of Italy's defenders. They have had a much tougher tournament than the England team have who have only played 1 serious opponent. England's best chance of winning is probably taking this to extra time.
I think Mancini is a much, much better coach than Southgate and has shown the ability to change his team's tactics effectively in a way that Southgate hasn't. I make Italy slight favourites for that reason. But a full Wembley arguably cancels that out, maybe. This Italian side have a lot of experience as well as some youthful flair.
I will be cheering on England and so will my family with the possible exception of my daughter who is currently dating an Italian!
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
Or what it means for someone like my step-son, who is a dancer in musicals.
You pretend to be a "Liberal" Democrat and just want nothing but illiberalism just to see Boris fail.
No I don't think that's what the public will think.
The share of the public demanding full restrictions is in freefall and quite right too. Its already nearly at crossover, after 19/7 it will crossover.
I can't speak for @RochdalePioneers but this ex-LD has bene pleased to see the Party leading the way in calling for a release of restrictions and I'm happy to note a number of Conservatives in the same camp.
I'm not sure about the "freefall" comment but I've said for some time the current regime of restrictions is no longer required or viable.
The line is quite simple - we now have to let people decide for themselves (nothing illiberal about that). Provide as much information and advice as possible so those decisions can be informed. If an individual chooses to continue to take precautions, that is absolutely and fundamentally their right and we must respect that.
The last thing we need is blundering confusing "messaging" from the PM and the Cabinet and criticising that is perfectly legitimate.
In any case, a general improvement in and awareness of the value of basic health and hygiene is no bad thing - keeping transport carriages as virus-free as possible, encouraging people to wash their hands, to get vaccinated, to get tested if they show symptoms, to respect others, none of this should be controversial.
Agree with much of this. However, I think most of the 'mixed messaging ' comes from a media narrative which needs contention not consensus, absolutes not nuance. Twas ever thus.
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
I said it yesterday and again earlier. I forget which PBer volunteers on a steam railway but he was clear that they can't make the books balance operating with the current capacity restrictions. I pointed out that they probably aren't even at that lower capacity because people are largely avoiding going to those kind of places due to Covid.
If they're already avoiding, suddenly telling them no risk live your life isn't going to prompt them to go shoulder to shoulder unmasked. Same with pubs and restaurants and live events and and and. Your government is of course pulling all financial support so if your daughter's business and the steam railway and everyone else struggle after Freedom Day then it must be their fault.
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
There’s an official announcement tomorrow, about changes in restrictions from 19th.
If they do cut the gap to 4 weeks the second dose rate will go up quite significantly. We're expecting 10m doses of Pfizer this month, plus the rest of the Moderna order it means everyone who has already had a first dose should get their second one by the first week of August and be immune by the end if August. At that point it really is pandemic over.
Unfortunately:
Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi dismisses report that vaccine dosing interval to be reduced from 8 weeks to 4 weeks, says 8 week interval is best
It just seems completely unnecessary to make people wait an extra 4-5 weeks and also have vaccines sitting in the fridge because that's what we're doing right now.
What's best for 80 year olds at the start of the rollout with cases falling in a lockdown (And supply constrained) and what's best for 20 something year olds near the end of the rollout with cases rising (And demand constrained) are two completely seperate things. Zahawi frankly isn't very good, his mealy mouthed answer about "hoping" clinically vulnerable kids might be recommended soon show precisely the sort of follower and not leader he is. A decent vaccines minister would be asking the JCVI why they aren't following the MHRA on that and the idea that a 4 week gap on Pfizer for regular (Don't forget all g6 have been done) 20 something year olds being better than 8 weeks at this point with err... nightclubs reopening soon stretches the bounds of credibility.
Complacent lethargy.
Its easier to bask in the success of the vaccination program than make some effort to reinforce that success.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
In which case if you wish to be that cautious that is your right but it means there will never be Freedom Day for you. You will always wear a mask and always prefer to eat and attend events outdoors rather than indoors.
That will mean you avoid the flu like symptoms you can still get from Covid even after being vaccinated but for me once double vaccinated I know the chance of death or hospitalisation is near eliminated from Covid so after my second jab I will largely proceed as I was before the pandemic, bar a bit more working from home and wearing a mask on the tube in winter
Patronising to the point of absurdity.
No, just factual reality.
The only reason we are able to relax restrictions is because of the vaccines drastically reducing the number of those infected with Covid who need hospitalisation or even die from it.
If after being double vaccinated you still wear a mask and are still cautious where you eat because you want to avoid the even relatively mild symptoms of Covid if you catch it at that point then you have to accept you will never be as free as you were pre pandemic and will be somewhat restricted for the rest of your life
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
You pretend to be a "Liberal" Democrat and just want nothing but illiberalism just to see Boris fail.
No I don't think that's what the public will think.
The share of the public demanding full restrictions is in freefall and quite right too. Its already nearly at crossover, after 19/7 it will crossover.
I can't speak for @RochdalePioneers but this ex-LD has bene pleased to see the Party leading the way in calling for a release of restrictions and I'm happy to note a number of Conservatives in the same camp.
I'm not sure about the "freefall" comment but I've said for some time the current regime of restrictions is no longer required or viable.
The line is quite simple - we now have to let people decide for themselves (nothing illiberal about that). Provide as much information and advice as possible so those decisions can be informed. If an individual chooses to continue to take precautions, that is absolutely and fundamentally their right and we must respect that.
The last thing we need is blundering confusing "messaging" from the PM and the Cabinet and criticising that is perfectly legitimate.
In any case, a general improvement in and awareness of the value of basic health and hygiene is no bad thing - keeping transport carriages as virus-free as possible, encouraging people to wash their hands, to get vaccinated, to get tested if they show symptoms, to respect others, none of this should be controversial.
I agree - the current restrictions aren't viable, undermined entirely by the government. The balance. As a party we voted against the extension of the emergency powers. But we're also skewering ministers over their ideology over science guff about why they now think masks can be discarded.
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
I said it yesterday and again earlier. I forget which PBer volunteers on a steam railway but he was clear that they can't make the books balance operating with the current capacity restrictions. I pointed out that they probably aren't even at that lower capacity because people are largely avoiding going to those kind of places due to Covid.
If they're already avoiding, suddenly telling them no risk live your life isn't going to prompt them to go shoulder to shoulder unmasked. Same with pubs and restaurants and live events and and and. Your government is of course pulling all financial support so if your daughter's business and the steam railway and everyone else struggle after Freedom Day then it must be their fault.
In my experience, there's no shortage of people wishing to eat out and go to live functions. In fact, there's a lot of pent up demand. But, current regulations make it very difficult for people like Cyclefree's daughter to satisfy that demand while turning a profit.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
In which case if you wish to be that cautious that is your right but it means there will never be Freedom Day for you. You will always wear a mask and always prefer to eat and attend events outdoors rather than indoors.
That will mean you will be more likely to avoid the flu like symptoms you can still get from Covid even after being vaccinated and reduce the risk of transmission but for me once double vaccinated I know the chance of death or hospitalisation is near eliminated from Covid so after my second jab I will largely proceed as I was before the pandemic, bar a bit more working from home and wearing a mask on the tube in winter
You and Mrs FD are, I think, some 50 years younger than Mrs C and I. The risk of severe consequences from illness is therefore much higher for us. So, while the virus is still about we will risk assess on a daily basis, depending on the situation. As an example we are planning a shopping trip to Chelmsford next week, which will probably involve the Park'nRide service. We'll use masks.
You pretend to be a "Liberal" Democrat and just want nothing but illiberalism just to see Boris fail.
No I don't think that's what the public will think.
The share of the public demanding full restrictions is in freefall and quite right too. Its already nearly at crossover, after 19/7 it will crossover.
I can't speak for @RochdalePioneers but this ex-LD has bene pleased to see the Party leading the way in calling for a release of restrictions and I'm happy to note a number of Conservatives in the same camp.
I'm not sure about the "freefall" comment but I've said for some time the current regime of restrictions is no longer required or viable.
The line is quite simple - we now have to let people decide for themselves (nothing illiberal about that). Provide as much information and advice as possible so those decisions can be informed. If an individual chooses to continue to take precautions, that is absolutely and fundamentally their right and we must respect that.
The last thing we need is blundering confusing "messaging" from the PM and the Cabinet and criticising that is perfectly legitimate.
In any case, a general improvement in and awareness of the value of basic health and hygiene is no bad thing - keeping transport carriages as virus-free as possible, encouraging people to wash their hands, to get vaccinated, to get tested if they show symptoms, to respect others, none of this should be controversial.
The LDs have reverted to their pre-2010 type of talking out of both sides of their mouth simultaneously. Something I didn't think they'd be able to do with so few MPs anymore but I was wrong.
Some in the Party have stood up for lifting restrictions, when the government were extending them, which I respect.
But then since Boris announced the restrictions were being lifted all I've seen from the party is Layla Moran, who may as well be a fully fledged member of the Independent SAGE MPs.
Looking forward to the government legally lifting all restrictions and then wagging its finger and saying "yes, but morally you should keep doing all the stuff we're currently legally restricting".
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
I suspect that mask wearing guidance will be retained in hospitals and medical settings and on crowded public transport
The vast majority of the public will behave responsibly and I just do not see any real enforcement is taking place at present even though it is mandated
Down my way, Pembrokeshire, I am rarely seeing unmasked people in shops, cafes etc. We must be very compliant. Little doubt masks will remain compulsory in Wales on transport, doctors etc, but even if not made so elsewhere, I suspect I and many others will continue to mask up for the foreseeable.
Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.
Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.
A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.
Supply and demand means that when supply is limited, companies prioritise those accounts willing to pay more?
Well blow me down with a feather!
No no no, everyone is paying more. If you don't agree to pay the price for service then you don't get service. This isn't big customers out-bidding the smaller ones. Its industry doing what it does brilliantly which is fire-fighting. They can't serve everyone. So shift as much as you can - that means the trunk deliveries and the big loads.
Everyone paying more is supply and demand. 🤷♂️
Industry is doing what it does best, which is look after its own self-interests and everybody does what they need to do. Which is exactly what I told you would happen months ago.
Industry knows what to do.
Yes. It knows to short deliveries like fuck thanks to the lack of drivers.
The ones who get shorted will be the ones least willing to pay a premium. If you want your goods shifted and are willing to pay extra for it then they will be.
Just as I said would happen.
When is all this cheap food that we were promised arriving like?
We've already signed a free trade deal with Australia, that Victor Meldrew here was insisting would destroy British farmers by flooding the nation with cheap food.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
In which case if you wish to be that cautious that is your right but it means there will never be Freedom Day for you. You will always wear a mask and always prefer to eat and attend events outdoors rather than indoors.
That will mean you will be more likely to avoid the flu like symptoms you can still get from Covid even after being vaccinated and reduce the risk of transmission but for me once double vaccinated I know the chance of death or hospitalisation is near eliminated from Covid so after my second jab I will largely proceed as I was before the pandemic, bar a bit more working from home and wearing a mask on the tube in winter
You and Mrs FD are, I think, some 50 years younger than Mrs C and I. The risk of severe consequences from illness is therefore much higher for us. So, while the virus is still about we will risk assess on a daily basis, depending on the situation. As an example we are planning a shopping trip to Chelmsford next week, which will probably involve the Park'nRide service. We'll use masks.
Fair enough but then winter flu would also be a greater risk for you than us and after double vaccination Covid will likely become like winter flu for those who catch it.
If you wish to still take precautions particularly given your age that is up to you but you are at far less risk than you would have been before vaccination
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
That's a well-argued and cogent analysis.
Many in the LDs are profoundly suspicious of Labour and the assumption LD voters will naturally switch to Labour is much less evidenced than the notion Labour voters would switch LD (or Green).
As long as Starmer presents himself as an unthreatening Labour leader, the prospects of tactical voting remain high. People who voted Conservative to stop Corbyn won't have the same notion to stop Starmer IF the 2024 Labour Manifesto is a fairly fluffy non-threatening wish list predicated on doing what he current Government is doing but with some icing on top and better management.
A "Progressive Alliance" won't happen though I suspect we may again see some local pacts between the LDs ad Greens for example but the voters will decide for themselves on the ground which party is the one most likely to be able to defeat the Conservatives (if that's the public mood in 2024).
Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.
Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.
A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.
Supply and demand means that when supply is limited, companies prioritise those accounts willing to pay more?
Well blow me down with a feather!
No no no, everyone is paying more. If you don't agree to pay the price for service then you don't get service. This isn't big customers out-bidding the smaller ones. Its industry doing what it does brilliantly which is fire-fighting. They can't serve everyone. So shift as much as you can - that means the trunk deliveries and the big loads.
Everyone paying more is supply and demand. 🤷♂️
Industry is doing what it does best, which is look after its own self-interests and everybody does what they need to do. Which is exactly what I told you would happen months ago.
Industry knows what to do.
Yes. It knows to short deliveries like fuck thanks to the lack of drivers.
The ones who get shorted will be the ones least willing to pay a premium. If you want your goods shifted and are willing to pay extra for it then they will be.
Just as I said would happen.
When is all this cheap food that we were promised arriving like?
We've already signed a free trade deal with Australia, that Victor Meldrew here was insisting would destroy British farmers by flooding the nation with cheap food.
I claim nothing. The farmers make those claims. When it comes into full effect in 2036.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
This is one of the problems with the whole debate. The proponents of arguments that are always arguing for more restrictions/greater caution have so monopolised the press and the airwaves, that those arguing for the economy, businesses, individuals who need jobs etc etc can't get a look in.
Anyone even daring to make such arguments in the face of the onslaught is either accused of callous, uncaring, unfeeling, out of touch with reality... or, just as bad, dismissed on the grounds of seeking to make "false economies". We have scientists, epidemiologists, SAGE people everywhere dismissing dissenting views on Covid because *they* are the experts, whilst claiming, in effect to be economic experts as well. Whether this is because they really do think we can run an economy have we have been doing for the last 16 months forever, or just because they know that until the money really does run out people will always be drawn towards the comfort blanket that they offer.
And when the money does run out, they will just say that it was the governments fault for repeatedly not listening to them and prolonging the crisis.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Freedom Day my arm! My issue is Johnson's lack of caution and candour means many people, as on here, are celebrating Johnson winning the war already.
Now I have been accused of over-caution, and if I want to self-isolate, I should f*** off and die in my bunker, by the very people who seem safely esconsed in theirs.
Now economic necessity means I am out hunter gathering, and have been for a while, and all the dangers that throws up, despite being double vaccinated. I am of an age where if the Delta variant creeps through the double-Pfizered I could be in a spot of bother*. If someone wearing a mask reduces my risk, I'll take it.
* Personal anecdota backs up my concerns. I thank Johnson for inventing the vaccines, and getting them into my arm, but I won't thank him if in the unlikely event I become rather poorly as a result of his next election campaigning strategy.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Freedom Day my arm! My issue is Johnson's lack of caution and candour means many people, as on here, are celebrating Johnson winning the war already.
Now I have been accused of over-caution, and if I want to self-isolate, I should f*** off and die in my bunker, by the very people who seem safely esconsed in theirs.
Now economic necessity means I am out hunter gathering, and have been for a while, and all the dangers that throws up, despite being double vaccinated. I am of an age where if the Delta variant creeps through the double-Pfizered I could be in a spot of bother*. If someone wearing a mask reduces my risk, I'll take it.
* Personal anecdota backs up my concerns. I thank Johnson for inventing the vaccines, and getting them into my arm, but I won't thank him if in the unlikely event I become rather poorly as a result of his next election campaigning strategy.
I do think July 19th is a month too early, August 19th by when the vast majority, rather than a small majority as per this month, will have been double vaccinated would be more realistic
Looking forward to the government legally lifting all restrictions and then wagging its finger and saying "yes, but morally you should keep doing all the stuff we're currently legally restricting".
That’s very simple.
It’s saying to people like @Cyclefree’s daughter, that she should use her judgement on how many tables to put in her pub, rather than giving her an arbitrary number and threatening fines if there’s too many.
If her pub gets too crowded, and her customers don’t like it, then she can adjust.
Ditto with mask wearing. If EasyJet, or TfL, insist on their customers wearing masks, then that’s up to them and their customers.
Looking forward to the government legally lifting all restrictions and then wagging its finger and saying "yes, but morally you should keep doing all the stuff we're currently legally restricting".
I've absolutely no problem with that at all. Guidance is helpful, especially to those who for whatever reason have higher risks like @OldKingCole. Obviously those at higher risk should be careful. This disease has not gone and will not go away. It is just no longer a justification for the rest of us being legally restricted in what we can and cannot do. Those most at risk are double vaxxed. Those with moderate risk are in the process of being double vaxxed. Those at least risk are, in the main, single vaxxed and will be double vaxxed by about September at the current rate.
In these circumstances the balance of harms demonstrated by @Cyclefree greatly weighs in favour of guidance, advice and a complete absence of legal regulation.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
1974 was 46 years ago!
Yet there is a significant chance Starmer will be the first UK PM since Harold Wilson back then to win most seats in the UK (or at least most seats with the SNP) but not win most seats in England at the next general election.
In my view Boris will be comfortably re elected with a majority as PM of England in 2023/24 but there is a chance he will not be re elected as PM of the UK
Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.
Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.
A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.
Supply and demand means that when supply is limited, companies prioritise those accounts willing to pay more?
Well blow me down with a feather!
No no no, everyone is paying more. If you don't agree to pay the price for service then you don't get service. This isn't big customers out-bidding the smaller ones. Its industry doing what it does brilliantly which is fire-fighting. They can't serve everyone. So shift as much as you can - that means the trunk deliveries and the big loads.
Everyone paying more is supply and demand. 🤷♂️
Industry is doing what it does best, which is look after its own self-interests and everybody does what they need to do. Which is exactly what I told you would happen months ago.
Industry knows what to do.
Yes. It knows to short deliveries like fuck thanks to the lack of drivers.
The ones who get shorted will be the ones least willing to pay a premium. If you want your goods shifted and are willing to pay extra for it then they will be.
Just as I said would happen.
When is all this cheap food that we were promised arriving like?
An Australian walking through the outback with a sheep under each arm meets a shepherd.
Meanwhile in all the discussion no-one seems to think about what all this government hokey-cokey means for businesses like my daughter's who simply do not know when they will be allowed to operate at full capacity again and without having to monitor and enforce ever-changing and unclear restrictions/guidance without fear of abuse and/or fines.
I said it yesterday and again earlier. I forget which PBer volunteers on a steam railway but he was clear that they can't make the books balance operating with the current capacity restrictions. I pointed out that they probably aren't even at that lower capacity because people are largely avoiding going to those kind of places due to Covid.
If they're already avoiding, suddenly telling them no risk live your life isn't going to prompt them to go shoulder to shoulder unmasked. Same with pubs and restaurants and live events and and and. Your government is of course pulling all financial support so if your daughter's business and the steam railway and everyone else struggle after Freedom Day then it must be their fault.
In my experience, there's no shortage of people wishing to eat out and go to live functions. In fact, there's a lot of pent up demand. But, current regulations make it very difficult for people like Cyclefree's daughter to satisfy that demand while turning a profit.
Indeed, people who want to stay home all day can continue to do so. What I'm almost 100% sure about is that it won't be anywhere near 50% as the polls suggest. It will probably be closer to 20% which will slowly go down as people realise there's nothing to fear post vaccination.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
An absurdly, stupidly, shamefully reductive post and deeply deeply selfish. Are you suggesting you were the only anti Tory in England. Your “solution” involves 55% of England (the proportion who didn’t vote Tory) moving to Scotland. Should we all do that? As welcoming as they are north of the border, the hospitality would undoubtedly be strained by a sudden influx of over 20 million people. As for the “English psyche” that is just mad ethnic stereotyping, and I know you’re English.
An idiotic self-centred sanctimonious “I’m better than you” post and I hope you reflect on it.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
1974 was 46 years ago!
Yet there is a significant chance Starmer will be the first UK PM since Harold Wilson back then to win most seats in the UK but not most seats in England at the next general election
That bit re Starmer is fine - it's discussing the current situation, not what happened before you were born (I suspect). But the point stands that for your entire lifetime, barring the recent aberrations over Brexit, England has got what it voted for, given that the Tory-LD coalition could be interpreted in that sense.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
The elections you speak of were not elections in England. Which is why the correct result was gained in the UK-wide election.
Looking forward to the government legally lifting all restrictions and then wagging its finger and saying "yes, but morally you should keep doing all the stuff we're currently legally restricting".
That’s very simple.
It’s saying to people like @Cyclefree’s daughter, that she should use her judgement on how many tables to put in her pub, rather than giving her an arbitrary number and threatening fines if there’s too many.
If her pub gets too crowded, and her customers don’t like it, then she can adjust.
Ditto with mask wearing. If EasyJet, or TfL, insist on their customers wearing masks, then that’s up to them and their customers.
Treating people like sentient adults and not little kids that need to be coddled.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
1974 was 46 years ago!
Yet there is a significant chance Starmer will be the first UK PM since Harold Wilson back then to win most seats in the UK but not most seats in England at the next general election
That bit re Starmer is fine - it's discussing the current situation, not what happened before you were born (I suspect). But the point stands that for your entire lifetime, barring the recent aberrations over Brexit, England has got what it voted for, given that the Tory-LD coalition could be interpreted in that sense.
In 2010 England voted majority Tory, not for a Tory-LD coalition, in 2017 England voted majority Tory, not for a minority Tory government propped up by the DUP so for my entire lifetime England has not always got exactly the government it voted for.
Just 2024 may be the first time in my lifetime England does not get the PM it voted for either
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Was it the "fuck you" nature of your own English psyche that made you vote for Brexit?
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
The elections you speak of were not elections in England. Which is why the correct result was gained in the UK-wide election.
I don't disagree but in 1974 there was no devolution, so it did not matter if England did not get the UK government it did not vote for.
Now however if Scotland or Wales get a UK Tory government they did not vote for they still have an SNP Holyrood or Labour Senedd government for much of their domestic policy.
If England gets a UK Labour-SNP government it did not vote for however it will just have to grin and bear it with no English Parliament and now it seems no longer even EVEL
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
An absurdly, stupidly, shamefully reductive post and deeply deeply selfish. Are you suggesting you were the only anti Tory in England. Your “solution” involves 55% of England (the proportion who didn’t vote Tory) moving to Scotland. Should we all do that? As welcoming as they are north of the border, the hospitality would undoubtedly be strained by a sudden influx of over 20 million people. As for the “English psyche” that is just mad ethnic stereotyping, and I know you’re English.
An idiotic self-centred sanctimonious “I’m better than you” post and I hope you reflect on it.
Worse, I think, is attributing vice and virtue to entire peoples simply upon the basis of which party they elect to office.
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Mrs C and I had our second shots before Easter, and we don't feel liberated. Two reasons. First, the virus is still about and no vaccine is 100%. Our chances of being ill, and given our ages and background issues, that could be severely ill still exist. Not high, I agree, but they're still there. Second, although we may well not catch it.... see above ...... we could still transmit it. We just don't know. So we wear masks in shops, and generally eat outside in restaurants. Must admit, again, we ate inside on Friday but there was no-one else in the place at first, and the chaps who came in after us both looked of an age to have been vaccinated!
In which case if you wish to be that cautious that is your right but it means there will never be Freedom Day for you. You will always wear a mask and always prefer to eat and attend events outdoors rather than indoors.
That will mean you will be more likely to avoid the flu like symptoms you can still get from Covid even after being vaccinated and reduce the risk of transmission but for me once double vaccinated I know the chance of death or hospitalisation is near eliminated from Covid so after my second jab I will largely proceed as I was before the pandemic, bar a bit more working from home and wearing a mask on the tube in winter
You and Mrs FD are, I think, some 50 years younger than Mrs C and I. The risk of severe consequences from illness is therefore much higher for us. So, while the virus is still about we will risk assess on a daily basis, depending on the situation. As an example we are planning a shopping trip to Chelmsford next week, which will probably involve the Park'nRide service. We'll use masks.
Fair enough but then winter flu would also be a greater risk for you than us and after double vaccination Covid will likely become like winter flu for those who catch it.
If you wish to still take precautions particularly given your age that is up to you but you are at far less risk than you would have been before vaccination
We've had our flu vaccinations every winter for many years. As I used, in my working days, to supply vaccines for the childhood schemes it would have been somewhat illogical not to!
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Freedom Day my arm! My issue is Johnson's lack of caution and candour means many people, as on here, are celebrating Johnson winning the war already.
Now I have been accused of over-caution, and if I want to self-isolate, I should f*** off and die in my bunker, by the very people who seem safely esconsed in theirs.
Now economic necessity means I am out hunter gathering, and have been for a while, and all the dangers that throws up, despite being double vaccinated. I am of an age where if the Delta variant creeps through the double-Pfizered I could be in a spot of bother*. If someone wearing a mask reduces my risk, I'll take it.
* Personal anecdota backs up my concerns. I thank Johnson for inventing the vaccines, and getting them into my arm, but I won't thank him if in the unlikely event I become rather poorly as a result of his next election campaigning strategy.
I do think July 19th is a month too early, August 19th by when the vast majority, rather than a small majority as per this month, will have been double vaccinated would be more realistic
I think there might be some method in the madness. Get the exit wave over while the hospitals are relatively quiet, and hope that the vulnerable Covidians have passed through the system before the higher annual autumn demand consumes the NHS.
In reality that makes perfect sense, but some candour from Government would be appreciated.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
The elections you speak of were not elections in England. Which is why the correct result was gained in the UK-wide election.
I don't disagree but in 1974 there was no devolution, so it did not matter if England did not get the UK government it did not vote for.
Now however if Scotland or Wales get a UK Tory government they did not vote for they still have an SNP Holyrood or Labour Senedd government for much of their domestic policy.
If England gets a UK Labour government it did not vote for however it will just have to grin and bear it with no English Parliament and now it seems no longer even EVEL
You still haven't explained why the Tories are allowing such an atrocious grievance to develop by themselves actively cancelling EVEL that was their solution to this problem.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
An absurdly, stupidly, shamefully reductive post and deeply deeply selfish. Are you suggesting you were the only anti Tory in England. Your “solution” involves 55% of England (the proportion who didn’t vote Tory) moving to Scotland. Should we all do that? As welcoming as they are north of the border, the hospitality would undoubtedly be strained by a sudden influx of over 20 million people. As for the “English psyche” that is just mad ethnic stereotyping, and I know you’re English.
An idiotic self-centred sanctimonious “I’m better than you” post and I hope you reflect on it.
Its all that and more - entirely selfish on the basis of I don't think England will vote to enact the kind of policies and the kind of society that I suspect you and I both want. The current "English psyche" is based on centuries of actualite and reflected by the likes of the PM saying "lets scrap devolution because they disagree with us" - a policy actually carried out by Thatcher scrapping the Metropolitan County Councils.
As I had the means to leave I opted to do so. The alternative was to stay and fight and meanwhile sit in an environment that frankly wasn't good for my mental health and not good for my kids. Selfish yes, absolutely. Less so though than the people who are about to aggressively take their masks off and get in the faces of the "woke" who oppose their freedom to do whatever the fuck they like regardless of the impact on anyone else.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Was it the "fuck you" nature of your own English psyche that made you vote for Brexit?
No, but it was the "stupid" that @DougSeal points out. Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
The elections you speak of were not elections in England. Which is why the correct result was gained in the UK-wide election.
I don't disagree but in 1974 there was no devolution, so it did not matter if England did not get the UK government it did not vote for.
Now however if Scotland or Wales get a UK Tory government they did not vote for they still have an SNP Holyrood or Labour Senedd government for much of their domestic policy.
If England gets a UK Labour government it did not vote for however it will just have to grin and bear it with no English Parliament and now it seems no longer even EVEL
You still haven't explained why the Tories are allowing such an atrocious grievance to develop by themselves actively cancelling EVEL that was their solution to this problem.
I don't disagree, I think it is madness for Gove to suggest abolishing EVEL, especially with no English Parliament proposed instead.
It does not matter now as the Tories have a UK majority as well as an English majority, it wlll matter in 2023/24 however if the Tories still have an English majority but not a UK majority
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yes. It was the basis of the announcement that the government would no longer mandate anything in law and have guidance based measures instead. The switch would be from "you must do x" to "you should do x".
Food makers and pub chains have complained that hauliers are raising prices and prioritising bigger customers as a shortage of drivers reaches crisis point.
Logistics firm Fowler Welch is understood to have told customers that prices would rise by 5 per cent, while Eddie Stobart has prioritised larger account holders.
A shortage of HGV drivers has been blamed on EU nationals returning home because of Covid and Brexit, and a pandemic-induced delay to the qualification process. Last week, transport minister Baroness Vere announced a temporary extension of drivers’ hours from tomorrow which would allow HGV drivers to make slightly longer journeys.
Supply and demand means that when supply is limited, companies prioritise those accounts willing to pay more?
Well blow me down with a feather!
No no no, everyone is paying more. If you don't agree to pay the price for service then you don't get service. This isn't big customers out-bidding the smaller ones. Its industry doing what it does brilliantly which is fire-fighting. They can't serve everyone. So shift as much as you can - that means the trunk deliveries and the big loads.
Everyone paying more is supply and demand. 🤷♂️
Industry is doing what it does best, which is look after its own self-interests and everybody does what they need to do. Which is exactly what I told you would happen months ago.
Industry knows what to do.
Yes. It knows to short deliveries like fuck thanks to the lack of drivers.
The ones who get shorted will be the ones least willing to pay a premium. If you want your goods shifted and are willing to pay extra for it then they will be.
Just as I said would happen.
When is all this cheap food that we were promised arriving like?
We've already signed a free trade deal with Australia, that Victor Meldrew here was insisting would destroy British farmers by flooding the nation with cheap food.
If they do cut the gap to 4 weeks the second dose rate will go up quite significantly. We're expecting 10m doses of Pfizer this month, plus the rest of the Moderna order it means everyone who has already had a first dose should get their second one by the first week of August and be immune by the end if August. At that point it really is pandemic over.
Unfortunately:
Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi dismisses report that vaccine dosing interval to be reduced from 8 weeks to 4 weeks, says 8 week interval is best
It just seems completely unnecessary to make people wait an extra 4-5 weeks and also have vaccines sitting in the fridge because that's what we're doing right now.
What's best for 80 year olds at the start of the rollout with cases falling in a lockdown (And supply constrained) and what's best for 20 something year olds near the end of the rollout with cases rising (And demand constrained) are two completely seperate things. Zahawi frankly isn't very good, his mealy mouthed answer about "hoping" clinically vulnerable kids might be recommended soon show precisely the sort of follower and not leader he is. A decent vaccines minister would be asking the JCVI why they aren't following the MHRA on that and the idea that a 4 week gap on Pfizer for regular (Don't forget all g6 have been done) 20 something year olds being better than 8 weeks at this point with err... nightclubs reopening soon stretches the bounds of credibility.
The eight week gap is fully explained by vaccines sufficient to finish the job being available in August but not July. I am not seeing any other good reason to insist on am eight week gap. Vaccine supply information is secret in this country, so we don't know. But I guess the Vaccines Minister wouldn't in this case admit to the vaccines simply not being available.
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
The elections you speak of were not elections in England. Which is why the correct result was gained in the UK-wide election.
I don't disagree but in 1974 there was no devolution, so it did not matter if England did not get the UK government it did not vote for.
Now however if Scotland or Wales get a UK Tory government they did not vote for they still have an SNP Holyrood or Labour Senedd government for much of their domestic policy.
If England gets a UK Labour government it did not vote for however it will just have to grin and bear it with no English Parliament and now it seems no longer even EVEL
You still haven't explained why the Tories are allowing such an atrocious grievance to develop by themselves actively cancelling EVEL that was their solution to this problem.
I don't disagree, I think it is madness for Gove to suggest abolishing EVEL, especially with no English Parliament proposed instead.
It does not matter now as the Tories have a UK majority as well as an English majority, it wlll matter in 2023/24 however if the Tories still have an English majority but not a UK majority
Thanks for that! Nobody seems to be able to offer any up front and non-Machiavellian explanation.
There is of course the possibility that Mr Gove intends to stand for a Scottish seat - maybe Peterborough and Fraserhead? - at the next GE (or someome will apply to the Chiltern Hundreds and make way for a by election) and he doesn't want to lose the chance of becoming Prime Minister of the UK. Either that or Mr Johnson's designated (but unanounced) heir is a Scottish Tory MP.
Edit: or Mr J has in mind one of the Scottish Tory MPs for a major office of state.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
They are so useless. This was obviously an error
Useless to whom? Does wearing a paper mask in a crowded train carriage give you any protection? Almost certainly not. You still need to inhale and the virus will be in the air you breath, subject to good ventilation. Does it protect others? Possibly, indeed probably, because if you happen to be exhaling virus much of it will get caught in the mask and not be in the air for others to breath in. The coughing that the virus brings on is utilised by it to allow virus to be expelled more vigorously improving the prospect of infecting others. A mask will at the least significantly reduce that effect.
I also think we need to recognise that last winter was one of our best flu seasons ever. That is probably because many of the useless precautions against Covid, such as washing hands frequently, stopped us catching other things. That significantly reduced pressure on the NHS. We really should try to do the same this winter because there will still be a lot of Covid cases in hospital.
So to me this guidance makes sense and I for one will comply with it whether it is guidance or regulation.
Looking forward to the government legally lifting all restrictions and then wagging its finger and saying "yes, but morally you should keep doing all the stuff we're currently legally restricting".
It's a tough line, but there's any number of things that are legally possible but that people don't do en masse because that'd be frowned upon.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
They are so useless. This was obviously an error
Useless to whom? Does wearing a paper mask in a crowded train carriage give you any protection? Almost certainly not. You still need to inhale and the virus will be in the air you breath, subject to good ventilation. Does it protect others? Possibly, indeed probably, because if you happen to be exhaling virus much of it will get caught in the mask and not be in the air for others to breath in. The coughing that the virus brings on is utilised by it to allow virus to be expelled more vigorously improving the prospect of infecting others. A mask will at the least significantly reduce that effect.
I also think we need to recognise that last winter was one of our best flu seasons ever. That is probably because many of the useless precautions against Covid, such as washing hands frequently, stopped us catching other things. That significantly reduced pressure on the NHS. We really should try to do the same this winter because there will still be a lot of Covid cases in hospital.
So to me this guidance makes sense and I for one will comply with it whether it is guidance or regulation.
I mean the GOVERNMENT is useless. Apols. Not clear
Masks obviously help to protect others. Crowded public transport is one place we should all wear them for a few months yet, I have no idea why they decided it was time to get rid
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yep:
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
She doesn’t give a time-span however. If she means a million dead in a year, that’s horrific. It implies a global death toll of 70 million, for a start. Possibly way more than that, if you factor in inferior health systems, general chaos. 100 million? 300 million?
However is she means an extra million dead over 10-15 years that’s very nasty but not apocalyptic. 600,000 die every year. So if this is her take, we will have 10% more deaths every year. Life expectancy will shrink, but not catastrophically
I doubt that 60k will die from COVID per year. Post vaccination if we get more than 5k deaths it would be a surprise. The virus would need to mutate quite significantly to start killing off 60k per year in a vaccinated population.
I have no real idea. Tho I note that this virus has already mutated faster and more perniciously than many virologists expected.
No it hasn't.
It has mutated far less effectively than most virologists were predicting. To the point where now, despite people's disbelief in the actual stats, it's a vanishingly minor illness and cause of death in the UK. For those healthy double vaccinated people in the UK the chances of dying from covid are next to zero.
Of 125 deaths in the UK fewer than 1 will bear any relation to covid and that's despite mass testing for it to the point of absurdity.
Looks like our Pfizer induced immunity is about to be tested. Our double AZ jabbed eldest son visited Mrs Gadfly and I on Thursday evening then tested positive at the school where he teaches on Friday morning. We were minding his 2 young children throughout the week, so we've probably had plenty of exposure. None of us currently have any symptoms. We had our second jabs back in April.
But the problem is that once you've removed Theon Greyjoy's balls and turned him into Reek, even when you send out a rescue party, fling wide the doors of freedom, he still prefers to cower in the corner of his dog kennel.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yep:
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
An absurdly, stupidly, shamefully reductive post and deeply deeply selfish. Are you suggesting you were the only anti Tory in England. Your “solution” involves 55% of England (the proportion who didn’t vote Tory) moving to Scotland. Should we all do that? As welcoming as they are north of the border, the hospitality would undoubtedly be strained by a sudden influx of over 20 million people. As for the “English psyche” that is just mad ethnic stereotyping, and I know you’re English.
An idiotic self-centred sanctimonious “I’m better than you” post and I hope you reflect on it.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yep:
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
An absurdly, stupidly, shamefully reductive post and deeply deeply selfish. Are you suggesting you were the only anti Tory in England. Your “solution” involves 55% of England (the proportion who didn’t vote Tory) moving to Scotland. Should we all do that? As welcoming as they are north of the border, the hospitality would undoubtedly be strained by a sudden influx of over 20 million people. As for the “English psyche” that is just mad ethnic stereotyping, and I know you’re English.
An idiotic self-centred sanctimonious “I’m better than you” post and I hope you reflect on it.
The 55% of the country who don't vote Tory are not all "anti-Tory" though.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
To be fair he did say he would continue to wear a mask
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
They are so useless. This was obviously an error
Useless to whom? Does wearing a paper mask in a crowded train carriage give you any protection? Almost certainly not. You still need to inhale and the virus will be in the air you breath, subject to good ventilation. Does it protect others? Possibly, indeed probably, because if you happen to be exhaling virus much of it will get caught in the mask and not be in the air for others to breath in. The coughing that the virus brings on is utilised by it to allow virus to be expelled more vigorously improving the prospect of infecting others. A mask will at the least significantly reduce that effect.
I also think we need to recognise that last winter was one of our best flu seasons ever. That is probably because many of the useless precautions against Covid, such as washing hands frequently, stopped us catching other things. That significantly reduced pressure on the NHS. We really should try to do the same this winter because there will still be a lot of Covid cases in hospital.
So to me this guidance makes sense and I for one will comply with it whether it is guidance or regulation.
I mean the GOVERNMENT is useless. Apols. Not clear
Masks obviously help to protect others. Crowded public transport is one place we should all wear them for a few months yet, I have no idea why they decided it was time to get rid
Oh, right. Yes the government messaging on this and much else has lacked clarity. A major part of the problem is that even they really don't seem to know where guidance ends and regulation starts. Whenever someone is accused of breaking Covid rules, such as the hapless Hancock, there is an anxious and uncertain search to try and work out whether snogging someone you work beside breaches the regulations or not (I think that there is a good argument that it doesn't, actually). We can only hope when the law has stepped back the guidance becomes clearer and sharper.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yep:
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
I've thoroughly enjoyed not wearing a mask for the past 3 weeks. I shall continue not to do so.
No one has challenged me. They wouldn't dare. And if they did I'll tell them to fuck off.
And if I catch covid I won't tell anyone. I have spare lateral tests at home. I shall go out and about and in those circumstances alone I will wear a good mask and try not to cough over anyone. And that's it. That's my contribution to society on this matter.
Flu is now a far bigger killer in the UK than that thing people called covid. But do you hear the morons prattling on about flu protections masks?
Marr interviewing labour's Kate Green commented that
'by and large you are in the same place as the Government apart from ventilation and masks'
By and large that is where I would be BigG
Johnson's narrative of "freedom Day" may send his ratings skyward, which suits him. As a result however the cat is out of the bag there is no going back on anything now, the voters aren't listening to anything else, other than the war is over.
Yesterday in that bastion of Welsh RedWallers, Aldi, my wife pointed out to me that half were no longer masked up.
I hope Johnson and the anti-maskers are right and the rest of us, our caution unfounded.
In reality Freedom Day will not be July 19th, it will be when you have been double vaccinated.
So for most of the over 50s they have already had their Freedom Day, for most of the under 40s however they will have to wait several weeks even after July 19th for their Freedom Day
Freedom Day my arm! My issue is Johnson's lack of caution and candour means many people, as on here, are celebrating Johnson winning the war already.
Now I have been accused of over-caution, and if I want to self-isolate, I should f*** off and die in my bunker, by the very people who seem safely esconsed in theirs.
Now economic necessity means I am out hunter gathering, and have been for a while, and all the dangers that throws up, despite being double vaccinated. I am of an age where if the Delta variant creeps through the double-Pfizered I could be in a spot of bother*. If someone wearing a mask reduces my risk, I'll take it.
* Personal anecdota backs up my concerns. I thank Johnson for inventing the vaccines, and getting them into my arm, but I won't thank him if in the unlikely event I become rather poorly as a result of his next election campaigning strategy.
I do think July 19th is a month too early, August 19th by when the vast majority, rather than a small majority as per this month, will have been double vaccinated would be more realistic
I think there might be some method in the madness. Get the exit wave over while the hospitals are relatively quiet, and hope that the vulnerable Covidians have passed through the system before the higher annual autumn demand consumes the NHS.
In reality that makes perfect sense, but some candour from Government would be appreciated.
Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico · 1h I confess that events in the Netherlands have shaken my confidence. A fortnight of 800% growth before we'd even detected the surge wld leave us in terrible trouble. Not committing either way but maybe there's a case for seeing the Step 3 wave peak & drop before enacting Step 4?
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yep:
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
There is a difference between “everyone should continue to wear masks” and “people may decide they wish to continue to wear masks”.
Not really. The only difference might be the extent to which Govt advertising campaigns and societal pressure encourages it. There are lots of things which the Govt says you shouldn’t do, but ultimately come down to personal choice.
There are also lots of legal mask requirements at the moment which are often routinely ignored (or at best paid lip service to - the chinstraps...).
I don’t think it is ridiculous to think that we are at a level where strong education campaigns backing up guidance (as long as not over the top fearmongering) could actually be more effective. People might actually be more likely to wear masks (and wear them properly!) if they feel they are personally making a public spirited choice to do so, rather than grudgingly out of legal mandate.
In all honesty, getting to the Euro final, something England have not achieved before, is more than enough for me. Tomorrow morning, no matter what the result I'll still have a favourible opinion of Southgate and I suspect many people in England will think the same.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
Yep:
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
Its all that and more - entirely selfish on the basis of I don't think England will vote to enact the kind of policies and the kind of society that I suspect you and I both want. The current "English psyche" is based on centuries of actualite and reflected by the likes of the PM saying "lets scrap devolution because they disagree with us" - a policy actually carried out by Thatcher scrapping the Metropolitan County Councils.
As I had the means to leave I opted to do so. The alternative was to stay and fight and meanwhile sit in an environment that frankly wasn't good for my mental health and not good for my kids. Selfish yes, absolutely. Less so though than the people who are about to aggressively take their masks off and get in the faces of the "woke" who oppose their freedom to do whatever the fuck they like regardless of the impact on anyone else.
Polling on this very board says that such people are a minority in England. The Scots are not some genetically kinder superheroes. Your essentialist insistence that it’s the English voters fault because they are English, rather than the left coming up with a credible alternative is deeply sinister.
We won’t win here because people like you and I keep bickering around the edges and bitching about Johnson, and in your case slagging off the whole electorate on ethnic grounds, rather than coming up with a plan to replace him. We both left Labour and joined the LDs. That’s evidence of the underlying problem. That kind of purity of thinking goes on through the country, Even in England BJ got less than 50% of the vote in 2019.
It’s the fact that we in the centre and left of centre can’t get our shit together that makes this happen. The SNP’s current monopoly in Scotland came largely from (1) the collapse of the Lib Dem vote in 2011 and (2) the collapse of the Labour vote in 2015. Both sets of defectors went to the SNP. It’s not the underlying “goodness” in the DNA of the average Scot over the evil mendacious deviant English of your imagination but a coherent left of centre party that can attract voters from accross the left and, indeed, beyond. That’s the only thing missing in England. That’s what Blair, for all his many many faults, managed.
Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi reveals the Govt will publish new covid guidelines this week to wear masks on busy trains. "There will be very clear guidance that you'll be expected to wear masks on crowded carriages". This appears to be a change of plan. @TimesRadio
Except it’s not a “change of plan” at all.
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
Did Boris mention replacing legislation with guidance in his press conference at all a week ago ? I don't remember it
To be fair he did say he would continue to wear a mask
Must be annoying. They've done two pre-announcements now and there's a 3rd coming on Monday when (hopefully) England is basking in having put away those demons and won a tournament. 2 shots at it and there's still half the country who think like me and won't comply with FREEDOM DAY we're all safe pandemic over go back to your dreary lives.
Perhaps - and its just an idea - there's actually not a majority or anything close to it out there of people who think like PB Clowm Apologists like you and Charles and Big G? I know we're going to hear "but we have a majority of 80" and so what - when the alternative choice was a lunatic voting for a clown makes sense.
But the clown is supposed to be a populist. Can instinctively feel what people think and give it to them. So why is he so badly wrong and out of touch on this one? Philip on here yesterday reduced to imploring that he ignores public opinion and leads regardless of what people think.
When the desired outcome is to change the way that people act and behave, you can't command them to do something that self-evidently feels like a risk. Some of you complain about people like me wanting to control people forever. Far from it, yet it is you and yours trying to instruct people to do something they don't believe is safe or sensible.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Apologies if this is obvious and I’m preaching to the converted but British politics at the moment is divided into Tory and Anti-Tory. We Anti-Tories take comfort in our shared ground of hating Johnson and his myriad and obvious flaws. However, that’s all we’ve got in common and all those converted by that line have now been converted. What are we offering as an alternative to convert more?
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
My solution was simple - leave the country. I dislike the regressive "fuck you" nature of the English psyche, decided I wanted better for my kids, and moved north. You always get the correct result in any given election because that is what people vote for. And in England, this is what you want.
Not always, in 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and got a Labour government. In 2010 and 2017 the Tories had a majority in England but it was a hung parliament UK wide.
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
The elections you speak of were not elections in England. Which is why the correct result was gained in the UK-wide election.
I don't disagree but in 1974 there was no devolution, so it did not matter if England did not get the UK government it did not vote for.
Now however if Scotland or Wales get a UK Tory government they did not vote for they still have an SNP Holyrood or Labour Senedd government for much of their domestic policy.
If England gets a UK Labour-SNP government it did not vote for however it will just have to grin and bear it with no English Parliament and now it seems no longer even EVEL
A Labour/SNP government (which would never happen in a million years, but we'll let that one go) could just legislate to end EVEL if it chose to. Or it could frame legislation in such a way as to make it UK-wide. Or it could continue with this government's strategy of bypassing Parliament altogether. EVEL is not a magic bullet to protect the minority of people who vote Tory in England. It is merely a headline.
Comments
Government policy has been guided by the interests of a chain of sandwich shops above all else.
N.B. Red wallers don't use Pret.
This is not a personal attack. At some point all of us are gonna have to accept a heightened level of risk, if we want a ‘normal’ life. This virus probably isn’t going away. It might remain moderately lethal - like a very nasty flu - for many years, it could even get worse.
Flu didn’t make you stay home or ‘only eat outside’. So why this?
Of course if you accept severe limitations on your life, that’s fair. But that’s your choice. I have a close family member recovering from cancer who is now essentially self isolating again. Zero social life. No-one indoors. This is 16 months into the plague
To me it seems overly timorous. Because there is no end, potentially. And hers is not a life well lived, right now
But it's an interesting point, though, that if this is so then most Tory voters are older - and some a lot older - than HYUFD. If the penny ever drops in the same way as it has for OKC - that vaccination's benefits are in part outweighed by the release of behavioral controls - then that has interesting electoral implications.
If you're including Covid restrictions then those are wartime equivalent restrictions, right or wrong.
If you're not including those, then there's no realistic way to say that.
Unless the government maintains the requirement to wear masks, there are always going to be some wazzocks who think its ok to stroll coughing and unmasked into hospital because Boris says so.
I'm not sure about the "freefall" comment but I've said for some time the current regime of restrictions is no longer required or viable.
The line is quite simple - we now have to let people decide for themselves (nothing illiberal about that). Provide as much information and advice as possible so those decisions can be informed. If an individual chooses to continue to take precautions, that is absolutely and fundamentally their right and we must respect that.
The last thing we need is blundering confusing "messaging" from the PM and the Cabinet and criticising that is perfectly legitimate.
In any case, a general improvement in and awareness of the value of basic health and hygiene is no bad thing - keeping transport carriages as virus-free as possible, encouraging people to wash their hands, to get vaccinated, to get tested if they show symptoms, to respect others, none of this should be controversial.
People need light at the end of the tunnel so we can all understand the desire to "accept a heightened level of risk" - the problem largely is that the people willing to accept that risk aren't the people who are likely to die or suffer long covid. For a couple of generations we have drilled a sense of self over society into people, and having been bottled up for 16 months there's going to be a horrible clash between "fuck off" and "I don't want long covid".
At first look it’s hopeful. The Anti-Tories are easily the majority, even in England alone, but accross the U.K. we are split into Lab, LD, SNP, Green and PC. Lab is itself split into Corbynite Tendancy and Continuity Blairite. Each of these Anti-Tory factions hate each other as much as they do Johnson - if not more. To justify this we paint each other as some alternate form of Tory. The Corbynite Tendancy call the Continuity Blairites “Red Tories”, many Lab and LD peeps call the SNP “Tartan Tories”, everyone calls the LD’s the “Tories little helpers”. I’ve yet to see the Greens and PC painted that way admittedly but I’m sure it’s done.
So, while I agree with everything the Johnson haters on here and elsewhere post about him, such posts annoy me as they’re not so much preaching to the converted as screaming into the void. We need an alternative. What? A “Progressive Alliance”??? What policies would such an alliance have? The Labour Party can’t seem to come up with a cohesive set of policies. The SNP has one big policy that applies the Scotland with ripple effects on the rUK and a lot of smaller polices that effect Scotland alone. The LD’s can’t hope to have a significant impact in such an alliance. The Greens have might some that could form common ground, I suppose, and perhaps provide cover for the others, but it’s a big “might”.
The bottom line is that I agree with 90% of what RP says but it’s not enough anymore. Those of us who don’t like this shower need to start thinking about what we can give up to work with the others that don’t. I personally don’t even know who to vote for anymore. Simply not liking Johnson and criticising his government isn’t enough. It isn’t nearly enough. Yet even the main opposition party can’t come up with an alternate programme.
England need to play a high tempo game to take advantage of their additional fitness and the age of some of Italy's defenders. They have had a much tougher tournament than the England team have who have only played 1 serious opponent. England's best chance of winning is probably taking this to extra time.
I think Mancini is a much, much better coach than Southgate and has shown the ability to change his team's tactics effectively in a way that Southgate hasn't. I make Italy slight favourites for that reason. But a full Wembley arguably cancels that out, maybe. This Italian side have a lot of experience as well as some youthful flair.
I will be cheering on England and so will my family with the possible exception of my daughter who is currently dating an Italian!
If they're already avoiding, suddenly telling them no risk live your life isn't going to prompt them to go shoulder to shoulder unmasked. Same with pubs and restaurants and live events and and and. Your government is of course pulling all financial support so if your daughter's business and the steam railway and everyone else struggle after Freedom Day then it must be their fault.
Its easier to bask in the success of the vaccination program than make some effort to reinforce that success.
The only reason we are able to relax restrictions is because of the vaccines drastically reducing the number of those infected with Covid who need hospitalisation or even die from it.
If after being double vaccinated you still wear a mask and are still cautious where you eat because you want to avoid the even relatively mild symptoms of Covid if you catch it at that point then you have to accept you will never be as free as you were pre pandemic and will be somewhat restricted for the rest of your life
As an example we are planning a shopping trip to Chelmsford next week, which will probably involve the Park'nRide service. We'll use masks.
Some in the Party have stood up for lifting restrictions, when the government were extending them, which I respect.
But then since Boris announced the restrictions were being lifted all I've seen from the party is Layla Moran, who may as well be a fully fledged member of the Independent SAGE MPs.
Little doubt masks will remain compulsory in Wales on transport, doctors etc, but even if not made so elsewhere, I suspect I and many others will continue to mask up for the foreseeable.
If you wish to still take precautions particularly given your age that is up to you but you are at far less risk than you would have been before vaccination
Many in the LDs are profoundly suspicious of Labour and the assumption LD voters will naturally switch to Labour is much less evidenced than the notion Labour voters would switch LD (or Green).
As long as Starmer presents himself as an unthreatening Labour leader, the prospects of tactical voting remain high. People who voted Conservative to stop Corbyn won't have the same notion to stop Starmer IF the 2024 Labour Manifesto is a fairly fluffy non-threatening wish list predicated on doing what he current Government is doing but with some icing on top and better management.
A "Progressive Alliance" won't happen though I suspect we may again see some local pacts between the LDs ad Greens for example but the voters will decide for themselves on the ground which party is the one most likely to be able to defeat the Conservatives (if that's the public mood in 2024).
On current polling the Tories will almost certainly win a majority in England in 2024 again but there is a chance Starmer could become UK PM with SNP and LD support in a hung parliament even if the Tories win most seats
Anyone even daring to make such arguments in the face of the onslaught is either accused of callous, uncaring, unfeeling, out of touch with reality... or, just as bad, dismissed on the grounds of seeking to make "false economies". We have scientists, epidemiologists, SAGE people everywhere dismissing dissenting views on Covid because *they* are the experts, whilst claiming, in effect to be economic experts as well. Whether this is because they really do think we can run an economy have we have been doing for the last 16 months forever, or just because they know that until the money really does run out people will always be drawn towards the comfort blanket that they offer.
And when the money does run out, they will just say that it was the governments fault for repeatedly not listening to them and prolonging the crisis.
Now I have been accused of over-caution, and if I want to self-isolate, I should f*** off and die in my bunker, by the very people who seem safely esconsed in theirs.
Now economic necessity means I am out hunter gathering, and have been for a while, and all the dangers that throws up, despite being double vaccinated. I am of an age where if the Delta variant creeps through the double-Pfizered I could be in a spot of bother*. If someone wearing a mask reduces my risk, I'll take it.
* Personal anecdota backs up my concerns. I thank Johnson for inventing the vaccines, and getting them into my arm, but I won't thank him if in the unlikely event I become rather poorly as a result of his next election campaigning strategy.
@TimesRadio
It’s saying to people like @Cyclefree’s daughter, that she should use her judgement on how many tables to put in her pub, rather than giving her an arbitrary number and threatening fines if there’s too many.
If her pub gets too crowded, and her customers don’t like it, then she can adjust.
Ditto with mask wearing. If EasyJet, or TfL, insist on their customers wearing masks, then that’s up to them and their customers.
In these circumstances the balance of harms demonstrated by @Cyclefree greatly weighs in favour of guidance, advice and a complete absence of legal regulation.
In my view Boris will be comfortably re elected with a majority as PM of England in 2023/24 but there is a chance he will not be re elected as PM of the UK
"Are you shearin'?"
"No way mate! Find your own"
An idiotic self-centred sanctimonious “I’m better than you” post and I hope you reflect on it.
Just 2024 may be the first time in my lifetime England does not get the PM it voted for either
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E54hr-nWEAgtTwF?format=jpg&name=small
Now however if Scotland or Wales get a UK Tory government they did not vote for they still have an SNP Holyrood or Labour Senedd government for much of their domestic policy.
If England gets a UK Labour-SNP government it did not vote for however it will just have to grin and bear it with no English Parliament and now it seems no longer even EVEL
It’s re-affirming what the government actually said last week - as opposed to how the media reported it - that the plan was to replace legislation with guidance from 19th July.
In reality that makes perfect sense, but some candour from Government would be appreciated.
I don't remember it
As I had the means to leave I opted to do so. The alternative was to stay and fight and meanwhile sit in an environment that frankly wasn't good for my mental health and not good for my kids. Selfish yes, absolutely. Less so though than the people who are about to aggressively take their masks off and get in the faces of the "woke" who oppose their freedom to do whatever the fuck they like regardless of the impact on anyone else.
It does not matter now as the Tories have a UK majority as well as an English majority, it wlll matter in 2023/24 however if the Tories still have an English majority but not a UK majority
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1414159186661871616?s=20
There is of course the possibility that Mr Gove intends to stand for a Scottish seat - maybe Peterborough and Fraserhead? - at the next GE (or someome will apply to the Chiltern Hundreds and make way for a by election) and he doesn't want to lose the chance of becoming Prime Minister of the UK. Either that or Mr Johnson's designated (but unanounced) heir is a Scottish Tory MP.
Edit: or Mr J has in mind one of the Scottish Tory MPs for a major office of state.
Not that I believe any of those. But still
I also think we need to recognise that last winter was one of our best flu seasons ever. That is probably because many of the useless precautions against Covid, such as washing hands frequently, stopped us catching other things. That significantly reduced pressure on the NHS. We really should try to do the same this winter because there will still be a lot of Covid cases in hospital.
So to me this guidance makes sense and I for one will comply with it whether it is guidance or regulation.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zjtlAGLqeGQ
Masks obviously help to protect others. Crowded public transport is one place we should all wear them for a few months yet, I have no idea why they decided it was time to get rid
We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-5-july-2021
It has mutated far less effectively than most virologists were predicting. To the point where now, despite people's disbelief in the actual stats, it's a vanishingly minor illness and cause of death in the UK. For those healthy double vaccinated people in the UK the chances of dying from covid are next to zero.
Of 125 deaths in the UK fewer than 1 will bear any relation to covid and that's despite mass testing for it to the point of absurdity.
It's over. The people just need to be retrained.
That's what we've done to the British public.
There is a difference between “everyone should continue to wear masks” and “people may decide they wish to continue to wear masks”.
If I vote LD that doesn't make me anti-Tory.
What’s the downside? A tiny discomfort for a half an hour?
What’s the upside? Probably a huge drop in respiratory infections and consequent deaths
Masks were already extremely common in east Asia, pre Covid. That’s likely coming here
No one has challenged me. They wouldn't dare. And if they did I'll tell them to fuck off.
And if I catch covid I won't tell anyone. I have spare lateral tests at home. I shall go out and about and in those circumstances alone I will wear a good mask and try not to cough over anyone. And that's it. That's my contribution to society on this matter.
Flu is now a far bigger killer in the UK than that thing people called covid. But do you hear the morons prattling on about flu protections masks?
Nope.
@andrew_lilico
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1h
I confess that events in the Netherlands have shaken my confidence. A fortnight of 800% growth before we'd even detected the surge wld leave us in terrible trouble. Not committing either way but maybe there's a case for seeing the Step 3 wave peak & drop before enacting Step 4?
There are also lots of legal mask requirements at the moment which are often routinely ignored (or at best paid lip service to - the chinstraps...).
I don’t think it is ridiculous to think that we are at a level where strong education campaigns backing up guidance (as long as not over the top fearmongering) could actually be more effective. People might actually be more likely to wear masks (and wear them properly!) if they feel they are personally making a public spirited choice to do so, rather than grudgingly out of legal mandate.
You only get one of these things. Enjoy it.
Maybe I’m used to aviation legislation, where there’s whole chapters on the difference between the words MUST, SHALL, SHOULD, MAY and MIGHT.
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/authority/
We won’t win here because people like you and I keep bickering around the edges and bitching about Johnson, and in your case slagging off the whole electorate on ethnic grounds, rather than coming up with a plan to replace him. We both left Labour and joined the LDs. That’s evidence of the underlying problem. That kind of purity of thinking goes on through the country, Even in England BJ got less than 50% of the vote in 2019.
It’s the fact that we in the centre and left of centre can’t get our shit together that makes this happen. The SNP’s current monopoly in Scotland came largely from (1) the collapse of the Lib Dem vote in 2011 and (2) the collapse of the Labour vote in 2015. Both sets of defectors went to the SNP. It’s not the underlying “goodness” in the DNA of the average Scot over the evil mendacious deviant English of your imagination but a coherent left of centre party that can attract voters from accross the left and, indeed, beyond. That’s the only thing missing in England. That’s what Blair, for all his many many faults, managed.